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Real American Heros

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6260189/

Quote:

The Associated Press
Updated: 10:32 a.m. ET Oct. 16, 2004

NYACK, N.Y. - More than 2,000 people opposing the war in Iraq, including the father of an American beheaded by terrorists, are sending Iraqis personal photos with protest messages to show “what Americans are really like.”

The pictures, from all around the country, are meant to be a counterpoint to the infamous images of Americans abusing Iraqi prisoners. Each photo shows at least one sign, usually handmade. Some specifically criticize U.S. actions in the war while others simply extend sympathy to Iraqi civilians.

“With deep shame, we apologize for the suffering our country has brought to the people of Iraq,” says a banner in a photo showing 11 people in Vancouver, Wash. Three elderly people in Minneapolis declare, “All our children long for a new day.”

Michael Berg, whose son Nicholas was executed last spring by an al-Qaida-affiliated group, holds a sign in his photo that says, “I am sorry and ashamed for the tremendous loss my government has caused the Iraqi people.”

“I truly feel that what the United States government has done to the once-sovereign nation of Iraq is atrocious and shameful,” he said in a phone interview. Berg, whose opposition to the war predates his son’s execution, will be in Washington on Wednesday when the project is formally unveiled by the Fellowship of Reconciliation.

Undercutting U.S. troops?
The peace group, which organized the project, said it wants Iraqis to know that most Americans were shocked by the photos of U.S. soldiers abusing Iraqis prisoners and many regret a war being waged in their name.

A veterans’ group, however, believes the project undercuts U.S. soldiers.

Jerry Newberry, spokesman for the Veterans of Foreign Wars, said, “This type of thing only serves to undermine the effort and the sacrifice of our military in Iraq. These people on the face of it seem to have a political agenda. ... It implies that what we’re attempting to do in Iraq is shameful.”

The White House had no comment, spokesman Ken Lisaius said.

The project was sparked by Kaia Svien, a 57-year-old Minneapolis teacher, who said she was “just dumbstruck” when she saw the Abu Ghraib prison photos.

“It was the power of the photographs that brought home the message,” Svien said. “So I thought, ’Can’t we use photos in another way to respond to this and hope they will be as powerful? Maybe we can show them what Americans are really like.”’

She took the idea to the Nyack-based Fellowship, a 90-year-old group with a history of pacifism and activism. Staffer Hossein Alizadeh made it a national project, asking local peace groups to spread the word.

Speaking as 'ordinary Americans'
About 400 pictures came in from more than 100 cities and towns. Half of them are being burned onto CDs for distribution Wednesday to news media that reach Iraqis, said Fellowship spokeswoman Jennifer Hyman.

“We thought it would be great if we could speak as ordinary Americans to ordinary Iraqis,” said Alizadeh. “Since the United States went in there, the Iraqis have seen nothing but violence, so they have a very negative opinion of Americans. We hope that after they see these photographs, they will pause for a second and think, ’At least we have a few friends, there are people who care about what’s happening.”’

He said that despite the signs in the pictures, the project is “not about condemning any government.” Hyman said the peace group wants to stop the deaths of U.S. soldiers as well as Iraqis.

There is no official figure for the number of Iraqis killed, but some non-governmental estimates range from 10,000 to 30,000. As of Friday, 1,086 members of the U.S. military have died since the beginning of the Iraq war in March 2003, according to the Defense Department.

'We're not their enemies'
Bruce Hawkins of Northampton, Mass., a retired physics professor who sent in a photo of 16 people in a Quaker meeting house, said, “The intent was to send a friendly message to people. We’re not their enemies and they’re not ours.”

The sign in his photo says, in part: “We pray for the humane treatment of all prisoners and the continuing healing of human hearts.”

A group of 27 people stood for their portrait on the steps of St. Francis Xavier College Church in St. Louis after their weekly anti-war vigil. One of their signs says, in Arabic, “Our hearts are full of pain and sorrow for the Iraqi prisoners.”

William Quick, a lawyer from Lincoln Heights, Mo., who took the picture, said the church was used as the background to show that “being Christian does not mean being anti-Muslim.”

Mimi Pukuma, 29, of Philadelphia, posed with three friends and a sign that says, “We apologize from our hearts for the suffering our government is causing innocent Iraqi people.”

“I’ve been writing letters to the government, going to anti-war vigils and so on but that’s impersonal in many ways,” she said. “This seemed like I could in some small way express my sadness to Iraqi citizens.”

Re: Real American Heros

Is it still possible to send in pictures?

Re: Real American Heros

Anti-war activists, being called real American heroes? Try a bunch of ****ing bitches.

It's the mother****ers like them, and like Stonecutter who are responsible for so many of the Americans not coming home to their families. People who bitch and moan about how a war is being handled, yet they have never been in a war, and have no understanding of the war, or how to fight one.

It's you that had all of our ROEs ****ed over when the Army took over control of the country, and now we're being ****ed and not we're nothing more than targets waiting to be shot at.

CNN makes it seem like all these people are innocent, but you don't hear what goes on that doesn't make the news. But instead of letting the people in country, who know how to fight a war get the job done, they feel like crying their asses off, and think that some how they should have control over how a war is fought. It's a ****ing democracy, you choose your elected officials, and once they take office, you no longer have a voice. Deal with it. Shut the **** up, leave this **** alone, and stop ****ing us over getting us all killed.

Maybe you should start writing letters to the families of the dead Americans returning home. Your son is dead because I have a keyboard and a ego and I think I should know the best way to run the world.

The real American heroes are the ones who have the balls to step back from the keyboard and make a difference. Stonecutter, you aren't ****.

Re: Real American Heros

Quote:

Originally Posted by gekko

The real American heroes are the ones who have the balls to step back from the keyboard and make a difference. Stonecutter, you aren't ****.

You can step back from the keyboard and make a difference without shooting people. I think that was Stonecutter's point.

I respect the motives behind the war. But you have to respect people for trying to find a peaceful solution to it as well. Instead of just being a critical ****tard all the time.

Re: Real American Heros

That was kind of harsh but you got a damn good right to say that Gekko

But I hate the thought of us having no power in our own government...

I'm done in this thread though, I'm not gonna debate.

Re: Real American Heros

Well said, gekko. Well said indeed.

As for people not having power in their own government, Stalin once said:

"Those who cast the votes decide nothing, those who count the votes decide everything."

Re: Real American Heros

Right on gekko, so help me if I ever hear anyone that I know dis on anything that happens overseas.. It's on... Jonbo ominub hero.. you know who you are. :)

Re: Real American Heros

Yes, real American heroes who are showing sympathy to the poor Iraqi people by expressing how they are against the war that freed them from a brutal tyrant who murdered 50,000 Iraqi citizens a year (1.5 million in total over 30 years).

Yay for them. What a wonderfully ignorant, useless and tasteless gesture.

Re: Real American Heros

I think I speak for all the guys in my office when I say it makes us sick that people, show their true colors in that way.

Re: Real American Heros

How do you kill 50k per year? I mean seriously that would require a lot of work. That's over 136 people per day.

Re: Real American Heros

It would require some work, which exemplifies how much of a sadistic bastard Sadaam was.

Re: Real American Heros

Here's a question for you. Suppose you had found Saddam in a room somewhere and with him is an innocent child who is crying and screaming "please don't let me die" over and over. Now all you have with you is a grenade, so in order to kill Saddam you have to kill the child too. So considering that Saddam has killed thousands of people and will potentially kill more in the future, would you feel justified in blowing up the kid along with Saddam? Keep in mind you are going to be forced to tell the child's crying mother afterwards and explain why you had to kill her child.

What I'm getting at is that it's no secret the U.S. has killed thousands of civilians, including children, over the past several years during our fights with Iraq. It's easy to dismiss these casualties as unfortunate necessities when you aren't the one pulling the trigger, but if you knew you would be directly responsible for their deaths, would you maybe feel differently?

Re: Real American Heros

Nope, I wouldn't "sacrafice the few to save the many" It's used in triage in the hospitals, if you were a doctor would you feel bad if you didn't save a little boy that was terminal or the guy that was going to make it ?

It's diffrence in circumstance you can't compare anything to it unless your there at the time.

When the us bombs we don't do it to kill groups of innocent people.. It happens by accident but when saddamn did it he did it becuase he's evil.

Re: Real American Heros

Yeah well going into it we know for a fact we will be "accidentally" killing innocents. No we don't want to kill them but we know it's going to happen when we pull the trigger. The end result is what we expect would happen. The only realistic "package deal" we can go for includes the killing of innocents, so it is the package we intend to get; therefore we intend to kill a certain number of innocents.

If you drive your car down the road at high speed and end up mowing some guy down, you may not have been intending that to happen but you're just as guilty.

The United States embraces the utilitarian philosophy that we should kill the few to save the many. The conclusion is inescapable.

Re: Real American Heros

Of course. I'd kill everyone in the country to come home alive, not to mention I don't trust these guys. They're all involved in one way or another. But I don't expect you to understand that.