Wikileaks footage of US army gunship killing innocent people
Pretty stirring, and graphic footage.
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I watched the short version of the video, no less horrible to watch.
Seriously that's fucked up. |
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This is infuriating.
Fuck the military. |
Re: Wikileaks footage of US army gunship killing innocent people
This is what happens when you train 20-something's to hate a faceless skin colour, get them full of testosterone and adrenaline, take away hobbies or activities, then give them guns.
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Re: Wikileaks footage of US army gunship killing innocent people
I agree that this was a horrible accident, but by all accounts it was still an accident. There was a lot of fighting in that area before the attack shown in the video and there were armed men that were left out of much of the video.
I don't defend the action, but I think this situation needs a little perspective. |
Re: Wikileaks footage of US army gunship killing innocent people
Sorry, Satan. I'm going to freeze your home and agree with Professor S.
This was a hot zone. The military had recently been fighting some actual insurgents in the area. Those very same helicopter pilots might have been fighting people who were really trying to kill them a few hours ago. Moreover, from what I've read, the pilots followed the rules of engagement correctly. They assessed the threat, called it in, got permission to open fire and then did so. Some of their remarks seem callous, but the fact of the matter is that being a professional killer tends to dehumanize the people you're trying to kill. It's human nature. I've also read that someone in the van actually did have an RPG. We don't know what it was for, but it was there. I would say that there was no need to fire on a van that was just trying to rescue people. But the bigger point to be made by this video is that despite all good intentions, this is the stuff that happens when you go to war. People are going to die. Sometimes it's going to be the wrong people. Sometimes it's going to be people who don't deserve it. You can't avoid that no matter how much you try. That's why war is the last resort. |
Re: Wikileaks footage of US army gunship killing innocent people
Regardless, the video reveals two specific acts that constitute war crimes under the Geneva Conventions: firing on a wounded or disabled combatant and firing on a provider of aid. The Army claims the van didn't bear a red cross (international sign of aid required to be on ambulances) and that similar vans had been giving aid to the insurgents. So killing the wounded combatant was apparently just collateral damage and not a war crime. If I was an insurgent, I'd start painting red crosses on all my vans - what a terrible way of distinguishing genuine targets.
The US government should have investigated it themselves and made a press release. I'm not saying it wasn't an accident. We just shouldn't be learning about it from a whistleblower. |
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Re: Wikileaks footage of US army gunship killing innocent people
I think the worst part of the video is when the shooter is urging the guy crawling to pick up a weapon so he can shoot him.
No matter what you say, that part isn't an accident. |
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Again, not excusing anything, just giving perspective. War makes monsters of us all. The American military is not especially evil just because they were caught on tape. |
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It's been this way since Vietnam, and has been well documented. I wouldn't go so far as to call it blood lust, but its almost there. Soldier Memoirs, embedded journalists, and documentaries all seem to portray this common theme, and this isn't just American soldiers, but a lot of armed forces. |
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Well that's true. The Marines/military aren't boy scouts. They are trained to do one thing. Kill the enemy. The fact that it looks like a video game probably doesn't make it any harder either. I imagine shooting people up close and personal is a lot more affecting.
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I understand the risks these guys live with every day.
I can even understand thinking that guy's camera was something else. If that's all there was to it I could chalk it up to being a mistake of war. But those gunners are psychos. They want an excuse to kill. They made shit up saying there were a bunch of guys with AK47s which there were not. They opened up on a whole group of people who looked like they were just talking and then again when they were wounded. There is no way to contextualize this to make these soldiers seem like they were doing even remotely adequate job or like they are in any way decent human beings. |
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As for calling them psychos, well I reserve judgement for those who have been able to see the entire event in context and those who have been in harm's way and been asked to kill nameless and faceless people. There is a reason why soldiers are trained to kill with little to no remorse: Their enemy is trying to kill them with little remorse as well. It is the definition of necessary evil in wartime, and I can only speculate on how that might affect you, and no one else can either unless they've been in the same situation. I suppose I'm less concerned with the comments the soldiers made than whether or not their actions broke the rules of engagement. Motivations do little to sway me. Actions are all we can judge, and right now we don't know the whole story, and as Xantar pointed out all reports are they followed proper procedure. That said, the video that has been shown is damning. |
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