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Politically Incorrect: Gay Marriage
Politically Incorrect: Should the United States legalize Gay Marriage?
Well, this is quite a serious issue our society is faced with. As you know the Bible says gay marriage is wrong. But we'll get to that later. First lets look at why people would want to legalize gay marriage. When you get married you get married through the church and you become legally married. Currently gays are only allowed to get married through some churches and are not able to get married through the courts. Now you wouldn't think this should be such a big issue, but it is. When you become legally married you receive a lot of benefits - such as more money back on tax cuts. As you can see this pisses off a lot of gay couples because they are not legally recognized as a being married and don't get the great benefits. Now, people have been known to be gay as far back as we can tell, it was just never such a large issue. Scientists are also fairly certained you are either born homosexual or hetrosexual. I mean, who would actually want to be gay? You may wonder why people do not approve of gay couples. It's mainly because the Bible says that gay marriage is a bad thing. But lets remember that the Bible is a book that is over 2,000 years old and has been edited countless times. And if gay marriage was such a bad thing why didn't Jesus ever talk about it? Jesus stressed treating everyone fairly and giving people justice. And if God made all humans, obviously he made some of them gay. But then why would the Bible say it is a bad thing? Personally I think we should legalize gay marriage. But I'm interested in hearing your opinions. I want to try to make this as an intelligent discussion as possible. So whether or not you agree with someone, you have to respect their opinion. Open the floodgates. |
I don't get what the big deal is.
Why does everyone get into a big huff over gay marriage? Gay people aren't any different from straight people aside from the fact that they like members of the same sex. Big freaking deal. Why was it illegal for gay people to get married or have sex in the first place? That doesn't make any freaking sense. |
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CNN, the Today Show, and The New York Times have all had HUGE stories regarding the descision of the Epsicopal Church to approve the consecration of The Rev. Canon V. Gene Robinson as bishop of New Hampshire, a task that should not have taken more than 10 minutes. This debate came about now, as the church is in the midst of its triennial general convention.
I am currently here, at convention, as a deputy, in the midst of the turmoil. Many people who protested Canon Robinson's consecration did so because, he is in a gay long-term partnered relationship. He has a strong faith, and was clearly called by God for this ministry, however, many felt that because he is not "married," he must remain celebate... an inconcienvable request, as all men need sex with one they are attracted to. If Canon Robinson, a wonderful man with whom many I know are aquainted had to go through that much horror to follow what God called him for, because there is no place for his love in marrige, something must be done. The diocese of Westminister in Canada recently approved the union of same sex couples, to the dismay of much of the Anglican Communion. Though I support same sex union whole-heartedly, I would not call them marriges, as a marrige is between a man and a woman. A resolution will come to the floor of the house of deputies tommorrow. As I've been typing this in the exhibition hall, a sexual misconduct suit has been brougt up against canon robinson, so you can see how many people are agaist this. |
I'm all for gay marriage. I never understood why other people really cared if gay people married. I mean, they are just two people who love eachother and want to make that sacred bond, just like a heterosexual couple. I'm not a religious person, and I suppose that's part of the issue, but I still don't see why people should worry about other people they don't even know getting married...just seems a bit silly to me.
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Marriage is defined as, "The legal union of a man and woman as husband and wife," but that's just the only definition we know. Words can always be altered.
And on another note. Who is the Catholic Church to comment on gay marriages while they have thousands of sexual abuse cases on their hands, which they have not dealt with? |
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Bond, no institution is perfect :p There's no reason they shouldn't try to protect their beliefs, even though there are a few bad apples.
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Im Catholic... :devil:
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I dont see anything wrong with gay marriage. If they want to be gay and get married to someone of the same sex, go ahead and let them.
And if its the deffinition of the word "marriage" that makes people not want to legalize it, than call it something else but give them the same rights and benefits. |
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Sighs I wish the 50+ year old peeps agree with you guys
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The fact that this is even a hot topic is rediculous. What are we arguing over? We'rte arguing over whether 2 people can get married. How this affects anyone else but the people in question, I have no idea.
The biggest arguement against gay marriage, besides "***s are the DEVIL", is "Marriage is a very specific thing. Its between a man and a woman." To me this is a thin veil of homophobic bigotry. The reason why poeple are against gay marriage is because it would be like saying that being gay is acceptable. It is inclusionary, instead of exclusionary. Keeping gay marriage illegal is just another way of keeping homosexuality a taboo. To me, marriage is about 2 people that love one another devoting their lives to each other. Now we heterosexuals seem to only be able to make this work 40% of the time. Maybe we should let homosexuals have a crack at it. The bible is the main case against gay marriage, but then again aren't we supposed to be a secular society? The very fact that our law follows the tenants of the bible in this is non-constitutional. Aren't all men created equal? If so, then gay marriage should be legal. If one person has a right, all should have them as well. As for the Catholic church, I stopped listening to them after the whole pereverted priest controversy. So the Catholic church is against gay marriage between 2 loving and LEGAL individuals, but yet forced homosexual pedophilia which will scar thousands for the rest of their lives is A-OK. For the record, I have nothing against Catholicism as a religion, but the organization of the Catholic church is corrupt and should be disintegrated. |
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In Canada it is allready legal, so I don't see what the big deal is.
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lol... I don't even want to bother argueing. but...
All I know is, if it's leagalized it shouldn't be manditory for any pastor/preist to marry a couple that they don't want to. In other words, let the people who don't support it not support it, and only let the people who support it support it. Am I against it? HELL yes... Do I want to make my case? HELL no. (;)) It would just turn into an arguement that will lead nowhere.. somthing about religion, morals, where this country came from and where it's going... I've been through this crap one too many times here, and for the sake of keeping peace, I don't want to take it there again. |
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We're not arguing about gay marriage. We're discussing it. And marijuana won't be legalized. They just won't arrest you for having it.
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I highly doubt that the United Nations would expel Canada for legalizing marijuana. And if you do, I'd like some of what you're smoking! :p
The main reason that I doubt that Canada would be expelled from the UN for legalising marijuana is because Iraq hasn't even been expelled. Nope, not after the Gulf War, and after Saddam allegedly poisoned and gassed his citizens. Homosexual marriage is the next logical step forward for a country that prides itself on being the 'land of the free'... Why not make yourselves free-minded as well? In my opinion a previous poster was correct when he said that a priest should not be compelled to marry anyone that he/she felt should not be married - Canada's own proposed legislation allows for that and respects religious ideals. |
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----------------------------------------------- As for my stance. I'm catholic and after what the church said about gays the other day, I'm never going to participate in mass again. Now, I haven't been for awhile, but **** these assholes. Gays = Wrong Gay Priests = ehhh....errr.... WTF kind of stance is that. |
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find me that article....:P
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Yeah, it's a slow process, but democracy is like that. |
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"I hope it's not that stupid argument where gay marriage is somehow equated to sodomy and incest. And yes, I just called that argument stupid. The counter-argument to that one is so obvious and straightforward that I won't bother to lay it out."
-Mr. X- a sin is a sin is a sin... period. Also, thanks for calling my arguement stupid... I mean, you completly know how a gay person's mind works, right? Plus you know how incest people think too right? It's completly different right? Can't argue with that... ;) honestly, I don't give a damn what you think. I'd accept a brother being married to is sister before I'd accept any type of gay union. In the end, they are just hurting themselves. Just one more step in the wrong direction. But anyway... the way I see it, a sin is a sin, is a sin. What's right is right, and what's wrong is wrong. Most people can tell the difference, some can't. I think Gay people can't. This is just what I believe, you can question it all you want, but you can't change it. |
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You mentioned that they are just hurting themselves, and that they cant tell the difference between right and wrong. They're gay, not stupid. If they dont see anything wrong with being gay, then fine. If they are condeming themselves to Hell or whatever, than thats their choice too. I realize I cant change your mind, but this is just what I believe, you can question it all you want, but you can't change it. |
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1) We live in a secular society, not a religious one. Your religious ideals of "sin" based on the bible have nothing to do with whether or not it should be legal under out constitution. 2) Ok, how does being gay equate to incest? And lets try to not make too much of a stretch here when you attempt to explain. 3) You ask us if we know whats going on in a gay person's mind. Well, do you? Didn't think so. In fact most modern evidence suggests that gay people are born that way. Wait a second... aren't all men created in God's image???? GOD'S A BI-SEXUAL!!!!! Mind blowing... Also, if you are going to attempt to back up the legal aspects of why gay marriage should be banned, lets keep religion out of it, as it has no place in our government. I'm interested in your non-religious arguments. As for religious arguments, if all men are made with free will according to the bible, why should we make gay marriage illegal considering it doesn't HURT ANYONE? Isn't it up to God to make that judgement when they die? I also remember something about "judging" in the bible too, and how we humans shouldn't do it. |
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Well, lets separate this.
I was talking about legalizing gay marriage. Justin's only case right now is a religious one, which would obviously not hold up. If we are talking about accepting gays into the Christian or whichever Church then he does have a religious argument. Although both of his arguments are wrong because he turned down by McNair/Favre trade. :) By the way, does anyone see Church attendance going way down in the near future? |
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I finally gave it enough posts to get a general idea of what gt'ers think.
I for one am not against gay marriages. If 2 men or 2 women want to marry, let them! But we live in a society where morals/religion is taken into affect waaay too much. I'm not saying we shouldn't base everything around religion and morals, because there are some scenarios where it just is too wrong. But if 2 men or 2 women want to get married, its their choice, not the govt's choice. *On Bonds Last Question* Attendance might go down. There will be people out there who will probably send death threats, hate mail, or nasty phone calls to the (I dont want to start a stereotype, but I dont remember his name) "gay bishop". I hope whomever does attempt it (and you know it will happen), gets prosecuted to the fullest extent because he/she will deserve it. |
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how can you accept siblings getting married before gays??? if siblings get married and they have children odds are their gonna have eleven toes, or some other genetic mutation. What happens when two gay ppl get married? nothing! their just with the person they want to be with, nothing more, that and they get the benefits from the government for being married, who does that hurt??? how does that affect YOU???
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If gay's could get married, they wouldn't be having sex out of marriage... besides, who would want to be gay.. I mean, people don't tend to go out of their way to get persecuted... what ever...
I just think they should be able to get the same medical benefits as straight people... it comes down to this If two gay men have been together for as many as 25 years, as one is dying, the other WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED AT HIS LIFE-PARTNER'S BEDSIDE AS HE DIED. He would have no claim to any of his partners belonings, and if the house was in his partners name, he would have no claim to that. The dignity of both are taken away and their is no recourse... they can't even be with their partner as they die, as a husband of wife could be. |
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As for everybody else's posts, I didn't read past a couple of lines :p I will read and reply in another post |
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Just because one can't tell the difference beween right and wrong it doesn't mean they are right. If one acted on all thier fleshly desires because in thier mind it's right, it doesn't mean it's right. right? Now, being gay doesn't hurt anybody else, that's why I think people find it acceptable... like I said before, they are only hurting themselves. Quote:
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Going to Church is to learn about Jesus and what he did. We also learn how to apply his teachings to our everyday life. He taught us not to discriminate against anyone, so I will not discriminate against homosexual people. It's that simple. |
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Justin, the bottom line is that you have a religious, but not a political argument. All you need for a religious argument is your faith, for a political argument you actually need some factual points. The only political argument I could think of against gay marriage is that you could turn it into a society issue... but that still shouldn't work.
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It doesn't effect me now... and I hope it never does. That is all I can say as far as a personal reply. |
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The only thing I agree on with people in this thread is that gay people don't hurt anybody else physically. |
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Ok, according to the bible, all men are born sinners. That is the simple explination. The best man can do is try not to sin, and ask for forgiveness... no matter how strong the urge is. Nobody is born with a sexual drive, so babies aren't 'gay' or 'straight' they haven't and can't make that decisision yet. As far as creation in god's likeness, that was refering to us having free will and the ability to reason not how we act on our free will and reasoning. |
Game, say the tables are turned. Say being gay is the norm both socially and religiously. But you're born heterosexual and have absolutely no attraction to other men and even find it disgusting. So, knowing this, you would never EVER take a woman as your wife or see one romantically? You would never have sex with a woman or have act on your erotic thoughts?
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As for non-religious reasons to make it illegal, I have nothing against it... my whole bias is based religion. I have hinted at it many times in this thread, but I would like to make it clear. Quote:
A better question would have been: what if I woke up tomorrow morning and I was a girl. Keeping all my same thoughs about women. In that case I would have to chose between my faith and my fleshly desire.... and that would be a ****ed up situation... What I would do is simply never be married, and pray about it... if I had to chose between going to hell and having sex with women, I would never touch a girl again, and just never be attracted to a guy. -EDIT- had to make this more clear I would not have any sexual relationship of any type with anybody. |
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the only thing I would protect them aganst is any form of physical violence. I support the right to live, but in no way shape or form support sin. |
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