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-   -   Project Natal/Sony Move Thread (Natal $150 ?) (http://www.gametavern.net/forums/showthread.php?t=20498)

BreakABone 01-23-2010 02:47 PM
Project Natal/Sony Move Thread (Natal $150 ?)
 
As the time draws closer, we get more information on Project Natal and what is currently called the Sony Arc.

Most recently, Sony has announced that the Arc has been delayed until Fall 2010 which means both will launch around the same time.

And I guess saying it now, based on the current line-up, it seems like the launch of Natal and Sony Arc will be the big thing for the 360/Ps3 respectively. What does that mean for you at the end of the year?

What do you expect from each controller/device? What price range would get you interested?

Typhoid 01-23-2010 06:18 PM
Re: Project Natal/Sony Arc Thread
 
The price for both will most likely be near-new system range.
And I'm not down for that.

Thespis721 01-24-2010 01:40 PM
Re: Project Natal/Sony Arc Thread
 
I just want to go on record by saying that SONY and Microsoft sucks.

Angrist 01-25-2010 11:25 AM
Re: Project Natal/Sony Arc Thread
 
Perhaps this is the best place to tell my huge disappointment in WM+. It hardly added anything in Grand Slam Tennis. And often it didn't even register my swing at all. I preferred to play without WM+.

A camera-based solution might work better.

BreakABone 01-28-2010 12:18 AM
Re: Project Natal/Sony Arc Thread
 
Some news.

Quote:
Sony Motion Controller Gets 10 Titles This Year
Sports and pet raising games on the way for Fall device.

Nikkei has a short report on Sony's upcoming motion controller device. The one piece of new information in the report is that Sony will release "around 10 or so" titles for the device within the year. Included among the titles will be sports and pet raising games.

Sony announced last week that its motion device will be released in the Fall rather than the originally announced Spring time frame. The company did not share a list of software, but promised a robust lineup.
http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/201...ntroller_games

Quote:
Video-game enthusiasts are looking forward to the release of Microsoft's motion-sensitive video-game control system, code-named "Project Natal," later this year. Maybe investors should be doing the same.

That's the underlying message in an analysis of Project Natal issued this morning by Sarah Friar and Derek Bingham of Goldman Sachs. The analysts make a series of assumptions -- including an $85 retail price for the camera-based system -- and estimate that Natal will boost Microsoft's revenue by $1.7 billion in its 2011 fiscal year (which begins in July 2010) and $2.3 billion in its 2012 fiscal year.

It's a bullish position, to say the least, and it will no doubt be greeted with some skepticism. For a bit of context, Microsoft's entire Online Services Business posted only $3 billion in revenue in the 2009 fiscal year, out of $58.4 billion in companywide revenue.

The Goldman Sachs analysts obviously believe consumer demand for the motion-sensitive Project Natal device will be big. In a note to clients, they say they expect Natal to reach a 56 percent "attach rate" less than two years after its launch, meaning that more than half of new and existing Xbox 360 owners will buy Natal for their consoles. By comparison, they say, Nintendo's Wii Fit achieved a 41 percent attach rate over a similar time period.

"Xbox has been predominantly targeted towards a more hardcore gaming demographic, which is different from the family oriented approach of Wii and Wii Fit," they write, adding that "Natal now adds a hook for the more casual gamer."

Cumulative sales of the Xbox 360 were 39 million worldwide at the end of 2009. Project that out to 2011 and 2012, take into account the analysts' estimates of attach rates for Natal, multiply the result by their $85 price assumption, and you can see how they start getting into the realm of billions of dollars in revenue. On Microsoft's bottom line, the analysts predict that Natal will translate directly into increases in earnings-per-share of 4 cents (2 percent) in fiscal year 2011 and 7 cents (3 percent) in fiscal year 2012.

"Internally, Microsoft views Natal’s introduction as significantly extending the lifecycle of Xbox 360 to 10 years (until 2015), which is double the average for consoles," they write. "If this is the case this could have significantly positive ramifications for the longer-term margins of [Microsoft's Entertainment & Devices] group."

Microsoft itself hasn't talked in detail about the financial potential of Natal, which is expected to be released under a different name. However, the question is likely to be asked by analysts on the company's post-earnings conference call Thursday afternoon, now that Microsoft has confirmed a fall release.

Natal will use its camera-based system to let a user control the action on screen by moving around, without the need to hold a controller. It's part of the company's shift toward "natural user interfaces." Nintendo's Wii popularized the idea of motion controls with its Wiimote and companion nunchuck. Sony last week delayed, until fall, the release of its new PlayStation 3 motion controller.
http://www.techflash.com/seattle/201...r_product.html

Angrist 01-28-2010 07:53 AM
Re: Project Natal/Sony Arc Thread
 
Yeah I don't think any of them is going to make much money this gen. I see the projects as training for the next-gen, nothing more. They want to find out what works, what sells, how to hook developers.

I'd say Nintendo has it easier, they only have to add pretty graphics. And I guess better online.

KillerGremlin 01-31-2010 05:12 AM
Re: Project Natal/Sony Arc Thread
 
Fucking waggle. Look at what Nintendo has done.

At least the Sony Anal Wand can double as a game controller.

BreakABone 02-15-2010 05:28 PM
Re: Project Natal/Sony Arc Thread
 
Quote:
Microsoft: Natal Has Five-Year Lifespan

Microsoft's director of product management Aaron Greenberg has said that software will be created for Project Natal for the next five years.

Speaking to CVG, the Xbox exec said, "The richness of the technology is going to really enable experiences that never had existed before. And we're not just speaking about what we're doing this year, but I think two, three, four, five years from now as this evolves.

"Millions of consumers this Holiday will be able to experience Project Natal and this is just the beginning of something that will change the way consumers interact with entertainment and change way our publishing partners think about game development."

When asked how Microsoft viewed accusations that Natal was simply a "jazzed-up EyeToy" Greenberg responded, “We obviously could have done a motion controller if we'd have wanted to do that, but we felt that would be a much more interruptive experience. We had an opportunity here to really do something that's transformative and brings a whole new category of experiences to life.

"Now we're saying to creators: 'We can see when you move your hand, when you move your feet, we can track your body. I can stand in front of this sensor and it can recognise my face and know if it's me, or my brother or my sister.'"
http://www.edge-online.com/news/micr...-year-lifespan

I mean it is to be expected, you can't say our new device will be for a year, but we shall see how support is.

BreakABone 02-19-2010 02:38 PM
Re: Project Natal/Sony Arc Thread
 


An updated demo of the Balls game from e3.

manasecret 02-19-2010 03:09 PM
Re: Project Natal/Sony Arc Thread
 
I like the tech, but here's hoping they make a game that's actually fun. That ball game lacks discipline.

BreakABone 03-12-2010 12:49 AM
Re: Project Natal/Sony Arc Thread
 
This is taken from IGN and comes from Matt, so take however you want, thought would just share.

Quote:
So I'm relaxing on a couch in a high-rise suite as a developer offers me a glimpse of its new game, still unannounced but very exciting. We get to talking about Sony's motion controller, recently unveiled. I played with it at publisher's event and as something of a Wii veteran with a firm understanding of how pointer and gestural controls work and how games should feel when they are properly finessed. I'm not impressed, I say. PS3 Move features almost no latency -- just one frame -- but that paper truth didn't seem to translate to reality as I played with the controller at Sony's event. Most of the stuff played like first-generation Wii efforts from third-parties.

Obviously, I'm not making games and I'm sure some software creators will note that with the roll of the eyes and claim that it's all too easy for me to bitch and moan from the backseat, or the sidelines, as it were. But playing the armchair role for a minute, it seems an unavoidable conclusion to me that Sony should have at least examined the very best genre-leaders on Nintendo's platform and then duplicated if not surpassed them with its own Move-controlled experiences. For instance, Medal of Honor, The Conduit and Red Steel 2 offer fantastic controls for first-person shooters. Anything less than these will be considered substandard by the informed masses -- at least those with knowledge of Wii's library. Unfortunately, Move doesn't yet compete. The company's shooter feels laggy and unresponsive as I attempt to gun down robotic targets. The boxing game is not one-to-one, but gestural-based, and slow. Nearly everything feels redone, but somehow half-baked.

The exceptions are the augmented reality games, which project gameplay graphics onto real-time views of players using Sony's camera. These are all flimsy affairs -- mini-games of the sort that sold Wii consoles three years ago, but as I watch people having fun while they shave the heads of goofy virtual monsters, I can't help but think how much my kids are going to love this stuff. It's fluffy, sure, but families will eat it up and there's just enough freshness that critics like me can't say that Sony copied Nintendo, at least not blatantly. Just as importantly, it's responsive and it feels good.

Move's hardware is more than competent and there's certainly a lot of potential, but most of it remained untapped at the event. This opinion is seconded by the developer, which is working closely with the device. They tell me that they believe it will ultimately outperform the Wii remote in responsiveness and say that their own tests are already proving that true. I ask if there is the kind of lag I experienced at Sony's demo and they say no, that it's very fast and reliable when programmed correctly. They add that it still has some calibration issues like the Wii remote, but that it's still an improvement.

Natal, though -- the motion offering from Microsoft -- not so much. The same studio rep calls Natal a big, buggy mess. "It's sh*t," he adds, saying that it just doesn't work as promised. That it's slow and that the camera is imprecise, which he notes, is causing some major development woes.

He refers to a development conference Microsoft held not so long ago in which Peter Molyneux of Fable fame (presently, creative director at Microsoft Game Studios) took the stage and attempted to demo the publisher's much-publicized Milo Natal project. Molyneux apparently called someone from the audience to the stage and asked them to interact with the virtual boy, but it didn't go to plan. Natal's camera failed to see the person accurately because he was wearing a black trench coat. After some fiddling, he was asked to remove his trench coat and -- whoops -- wore a black shirt underneath. When it still didn't work, he was invited to take his seat again.

Next, Molyneux said that Milo could interact with illustrations drawn to paper and scanned by the camera. He asked the audience for suggestions. "You could see him cocking his head and listening for the right key words, and then finally he heard something the game would recognize," my development source explains. It was a cat. So he invited someone from the audience to ascend the steps to the stage and illustrate the feline on paper. When Natal attempted to scan the horribly scribbled drawing, it instead picked up the Abercrombie & Fitch logo on the person's sweater.

I laugh at this but try to play devil's advocate. Okay, I say, so it's obvious you're not a fan, but somebody must be getting this thing to work well or it wouldn't be on the slate to ship this year. I ask if he knows of any other studios struggling with Natal.

"How about Rare and Lionhead? They're just going to try to make launch and then they're going to patch everything later," he says, laughing.

I'm very interested in the platform, but I haven't entrenched myself in Natal development. Later, when I bump into a colleague, I ask them if they have heard any behind-the-scenes rumblings about development trouble with Microsoft's casual entry device. He turns to me and says that yes, he has -- that studios are telling him they're struggling to get it working.

It's anecdotal and unproven and I know from experience that it's never so black and white. The fact of the matter is, the Wii remote shipped with so many problems that Nintendo was forced to release an upgrade device that even needs constant recalibration. And Wii MotionPlus? Word on the street is that the heat from your hands de-calibrates the sensor. It's still not perfect by any means, but it's workable, and I think that by the time Natal ships, it will be workable too, even if developers have to kill themselves getting it there. Lest we not forget that there are some amazing games for Wii and whether by ingenuity or simple trickery, the motion controls sometimes feel fantastic.

What I do find very telling about both some of these public unveilings and secret murmurings, however, is just how difficult it seems to be to nail motion controls. People love to shrug off Nintendo's work. Hell, I've done it. But for all the primitive graphics surrounding the Wii Sports experience, there's some pretty fancy handiwork powering the gameplay controls -- and I think Microsoft and Sony are only now discovering just how fancy it really is.

Speaking of Nintendo, everyone seems to be waiting for word on the company's next system. It's the go-to question in interviews. "Yes, I understand Wii sold a bazillion units in December alone, but hey -- when's Wii HD coming?" Yeah -- I'm guilty of that one, too. And it's no different when I talk to developers and publishers, nearly all of whom receive the obligatory query about new hardware -- what and when? I always resign myself to the no comment or the no idea, but at GDC I struck a bit of a niblet when a developer said Nintendo told him it would be ready to roll with Wii 2 in 2012. Anybody with a brain would probably guess as much, but it is even so always refreshing to hear so from a semi-official source.

Of course, the NPD numbers just hit and the Wii dominance is at an end. Outsold in February by Xbox 360, ending a forever-long winning streak. And PS3 was not far behind, either. We'll just have to see if Nintendo isn't willing to move that date forward.

Takeaways so far: Sony has made a dildo-controller that feels like a gimped Wii remote. Natal sucks. And Wii 2 is in no rush. At least, that's how it goes in pure black and white and if you believe everything you hear at this year's Game Developers Conference. Of course, if you do, then maybe you'll also believe that GameCube's fill rate is much better than Xbox's and therefore Nintendo's hardware is superior. Right?
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/107/1077003p1.html

BreakABone 04-20-2010 04:13 PM
Re: Project Natal/Sony Arc Thread
 









Quote:
Exclusively on Multiplayer.it and thanks to our readers we can present you the first pictures ever published Project Natal, taken during a testing phase for speech recognition. Our source, who asked to remain anonymous for obvious reasons, says he was recruited by a company marketing and market research Italian and was recruited to carry out such testing on that Christmas will continue for four months, ie a mirror of time commensurate with the alleged date of issuance of the apparatus final. The photos show what we are told to be a prototype of Natal and we do not know what the final version. The camera includes USB connection for X360 and seems to have some bearing sensor integrated or balance. Natal is connected to a 360 and Debugging Software on Windows 7, the tester (which are quite numerous) should pronounce certain texts in a room with several microphones and obviously Natal, probably to work on speech recognition capabilities in various environmental situations. This is a sample of 600 sentences, ranging from "light up Xbox 360" in "go on Facebook" and more. Among other things you can see photos of what appears to be the device manual, or at least an outline of it.
M.it unable to verify the reliability of the source relies on the wisdom of our readers to assess if the photos that we offer here at the bottom of exclusive worldwide are credit worthy or not.

manasecret 04-20-2010 04:37 PM
Re: Project Natal/Sony Arc Thread
 
Looks more like they're testing in what precarious place morons will try to balance the Natal.

KillerGremlin 04-20-2010 04:58 PM
Re: Project Natal/Sony Arc Thread
 
That ball game looks like SHIT. I'm sorry, but it does.

And Natal and the Anal Wand both look like epic fails that are basically ripping off Nintendo's success this generation.

Nintendo has a ton of flaws, many of which I love to discuss, but this is just sad sad posturing on Sony and Microsoft's part.


If Nintendo wants to rape the market they will release a brand new secret console to blow Anal Wand and Project Buggy Waggle Cam out of the water, yeah?

I think this is a good time for Nintendo to show how innovative they can be.

magus113 04-20-2010 07:31 PM
Re: Project Natal/Sony Arc Thread
 
They actually said that Balls isn't a game, it's a way of life.

For that guy maybe.

And for Earl too.

Typhoid 04-21-2010 02:47 PM
Re: Project Natal/Sony Arc Thread
 
Quote:
I think this is a good time for Nintendo to show how innovative they can be.
To be fair, they were only 'innovative' once, with the Wii. And I mean, it's not like they created that. They just took 80's arcade tech, mixed with a little bit of Superscope and put it in a box. I'm not saying it's a bad thing.

Quote:
They actually said that Balls isn't a game, it's a way of life.
That's the most unfortunate quote of the year.

Angrist 04-22-2010 08:30 AM
Re: Project Natal/Sony Arc Thread
 
Did you mean "with the Wii, they were only innovative once", or "they were only innovative once, namely with the Wii"?

I don't agree with either. ;)

BreakABone 05-26-2010 01:29 PM
Re: Project Natal/Sony Arc Thread
 
Quote:
Natal will launch in the US this October with a price tag of $149.

That’s according to a trusted source, who told us that the motion sensing camera will also be bundled with the Xbox 360 Arcade console for $299.

We were informed that prices outside of the US would be determined based on a number of factors, including exchange rates. Based on current rates, the standalone unit would retail for £103 / €121, and the console and Natal bundle for £207 / €243.

The figure for the standalone unit is significantly higher than a previous sub-£50 estimate, but less than pricing recently suggested by European retailers. It’s also more expensive than Sony’s Natal rival Move, which will be available later this year with a game for less than $100.

Our source said that the device has been pencilled in for an October 26 worldwide launch, although we were advised that the date could yet shift by a few weeks either way.

We were also told Microsoft’s camera definitely won’t be called Natal and that its proper title will be revealed at E3 next month. It will also be heavily targeted at causal players and families.

“Microsoft expects to sell millions and millions of Natal units in its first year on the market so you can expect the software launch line-up to target non-traditional gamers,” our source said. “A major marketing campaign will also play a key role in attracting and educating the expanded audience about Xbox 360’s controller-free revolution.”

When contacted about this report, Microsoft told us that it "does not comment on rumour or speculation”.
http://www.edge-online.com/news/nata...2%80%93-source

Ahh sweet sweet pre-e3 time

KillerGremlin 05-26-2010 02:46 PM
Re: Project Natal/Sony Arc Thread
 
150!?

How much does a Wii cost these days?

I'd rather buy a Wii, which is more polished/refined and has a larger library of shovelware and bullshit waggle titles. :D

Xantar 05-26-2010 05:18 PM
Re: Project Natal/Sony Arc Thread
 
Well, I now have 149 reasons why Natal is going to fail. Nice try, Microsoft. Give it another go in the next generation, won't you?

manasecret 05-26-2010 05:37 PM
Re: Project Natal/Sony Arc Thread
 
I agree that $150 is too much to make any sort of dent on the Wii dominance, but the packing in with the 360 Arcade for $300 (or $100 more than the Wii package), makes things slightly more interesting.

You have to imagine that the presumed new market "casual" consumers are the ones who haven't bought the 360 yet en masse, so the $150 price doesn't matter to that market. It's the $300 that matters. And it will probably be marketed to them as a Wii HD, thus giving reason for the $100 premium.

Will a $100 premium, late-generation peripheral/system with a light library (of party-style games) sell well to the "casual" market? All signs from history that I can remember point to "No effin' way". I'm going with Xantar here, better luck next generation Microsoft.

BreakABone 05-26-2010 06:51 PM
Re: Project Natal/Sony Arc Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by manasecret (Post 269232)
I agree that $150 is too much to make any sort of dent on the Wii dominance, but the packing in with the 360 Arcade for $300 (or $100 more than the Wii package), makes things slightly more interesting.

You have to imagine that the presumed new market "casual" consumers are the ones who haven't bought the 360 yet en masse, so the $150 price doesn't matter to that market. It's the $300 that matters. And it will probably be marketed to them as a Wii HD, thus giving reason for the $100 premium.
There are a few fundamental flaws with the argument I guess

a) After 4 years on the market, the arcade unit has gotten a bad rep for most people. Its near impossible to enjoy the 360 without a harddrive, between patches, DLC and demoes.

b) The HD upgrade. People assume that everyone else wants shiny graphics, but most normal semi-gamers just won't care for the diff between SD and HD. Hell most people can hardly hook up HD properly.

c) We don't know if it comes with software, though I assume it will come with that ball game they are always showing off.

Typhoid 05-26-2010 07:23 PM
Re: Project Natal/Sony Arc Thread (Natal $150 ?)
 
I think $150 is a fair price.
Considering games are $60-$75 new.

gekko 05-27-2010 01:56 AM
Re: Project Natal/Sony Arc Thread (Natal $150 ?)
 
I'd expect both these to be similar to the Wii Fit pricing + $10 next-gen surcharge like all PS3/360 games. So... $89.99ish.

Angrist 05-27-2010 05:01 AM
Re: Project Natal/Sony Arc Thread (Natal $150 ?)
 
Quote:
Based on current rates, the standalone unit would retail for £103 / €121
No no no, that's not how it works. A dollar in the USA is a Euro here. So it would be €150, which means we get ripped off like always.

Anyway, it will be a nice but underrated toy.

manasecret 05-27-2010 11:01 AM
Re: Project Natal/Sony Arc Thread (Natal $150 ?)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Typhoid (Post 269236)
I think $150 is a fair price.
Considering games are $60-$75 new.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angrist (Post 269257)
Anyway, it will be a nice but underrated toy.
Agreed, and agreed.

I'd like to reiterate here that, if they bring the must-have games, I will seriously consider buying them at these prices. Like always, it's a matter of if there are must-have games. (EDIT: My previous placement of like always I think was confusing.) These prices are fair for me. I just don't think they will be successful with sales to the wider market.

However, they will be successful in that it gives them a test-bed for their next-gen systems. They may even be setup in such a way that they will be transferable to the next-gen, and also bundled with the next-gen PS4 and 360-2. I see little reason why that isn't possible. That would make releasing them this late in the current generation make a lot more sense.

BreakABone 05-27-2010 11:33 AM
Re: Project Natal/Sony Arc Thread (Natal $150 ?)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gekko (Post 269253)
I'd expect both these to be similar to the Wii Fit pricing + $10 next-gen surcharge like all PS3/360 games. So... $89.99ish.
Wouldn't that put it at 99.99 or more?

Quote:
Originally Posted by manasecret (Post 269274)
I'd like to reiterate here that, if they bring the must-have games, like always, I will seriously consider buying them at these prices. They're fair for me. I just don't think they will be successful with sales to the wider market.

However, they will be successful in that it gives them a test-bed for their next-gen systems. They may even be setup in such a way that they will be transferable to the next-gen, and also bundled with the next-gen PS4 and 360-2. I see little reason why that isn't possible. That would make releasing them this late in the current generation make a lot more sense.
I'm curious what must-have games for Natal will be.

The current make-up of the Xbox are the Call of Duty, Halo, Gears of War type, and while those games may feature Natal support, we also know they work well with a standard controller.

But guess shall wait until e3 to see how this all breaks down. What comes with Natal. What games they are showcasing.

Xantar 05-28-2010 02:18 AM
Re: Project Natal/Sony Arc Thread (Natal $150 ?)
 
It doesn't matter. It's an add-on and it costs $150. Only a fraction of the Xbox 360 audience will buy it regardless of how good the initial software lineup is, and therefore developers will soon give up on throwing any significant resources toward it. And therefore by the end of next year there will only be a handful of worthwhile games which take advantage of Natal properly and therefore people won't feel inclined to buy it. And therefore developers won't see any reason to develop good games for it and therefore and so on and so forth.

We will be talking about Natal at this E3. And we will be talking about Natal at E3 in 2011. And then next year Microsoft will act like they don't even remember Natal because by then it will have failed to sell any decent numbers or even to make any sort of impression on the public. That's just the way these things go. Now if you think $150 is a fair price to pay for this device, then more power to you, but let's not pretend that what you are buying is going to be relevant to your gaming or anybody else's by this time in 2012.

Quote:
However, they will be successful in that it gives them a test-bed for their next-gen systems. They may even be setup in such a way that they will be transferable to the next-gen, and also bundled with the next-gen PS4 and 360-2. I see little reason why that isn't possible. That would make releasing them this late in the current generation make a lot more sense.
I think Microsoft and Sony will try to spin Natal and Move as just test runs when they fail, but I don't think they are releasing these products and anticipating that they will fail. I talked about this before, but I'll repeat it again.

First of all, releasing a product that's doomed to failure is a horrible way of doing business no matter what kind of PR sheen you try to put on it after the fact. Not only does it waste money, it also gives the perception that either you've been badly defeated or you never made a serious effort to begin with. This stuff matters. There was a time when Sony was the invincible juggernaut in the videogame arena, but now they've been handed two unequivocal defeats in this generation (in terms of sales). When Move also fails, it's going to be that much harder for Sony to convince people to have any confidence in their next venture.

Secondly, by the time Natal and Move have been deemed failures, there will still be another two or three years left in the life cycle of the Xbox 360 and the PS3. In 2014, Kaz Hirai will come up on stage at E3 to announce the PS4, and when he says, "And the PS4 is fully compatible with Move!" the general response will be, "The what? Oh, that thing which went the way of the Virtual Boy two years ago? Does anybody still have theirs?" At one point I thought the same as you that the idea was to develop these technologies to be used on the next generation rather than this one, but when I looked at the timeline, I realized that it made no sense. These peripherals will not transfer to the next generation because nobody will own them.

Xbox Live on the original Xbox was an example of how you do a test run. It was conceived as an integral part of the console from the beginning, it was always well-supported, and it was still in wide general use by the time the current generation rolled around. It's even remained in service up until this year. That is not going to be true of Natal and Move. Those peripherals are going to be dumped before we get to the next generation.

To me, the greatest value of Natal and Move derives from PR but not in the way you think. Microsoft and Sony have been getting hit over and over with the fact that the Wii has something they don't. Yeah, you can pooh pooh the Wii motion controls, but there are consumers who don't read videogame forums or pay much particular attention to the industry who, when they look at the consoles side by side, will say, "Well that one over there has lots of buttons I will have to learn how to use and this one over here has an intuitive controller that I can just pick up. Plus it's cheaper." Natal and Move are attempts to say, "No wait! We've got intuitive motion controls too! Give us a chance!" Sure, the actual peripherals will be dead and unsupported pretty soon, but the uninformed consumer doesn't know that.

And the thing is Microsoft and Sony aren't idiots. They have to realize what they're getting into here, and they have to know that nothing they can possibly do at this point will give Natal and Move any life beyond the year 2012. I'm not saying anything here they don't already know (at least I hope not because otherwise that would be pathetic). So this says to me that notwithstanding the gripes of hardcore gamers, the damage from missing out on the casual gamer crowd must be so great that they are willing to take on a suicide mission like this.

Angrist 05-28-2010 11:22 AM
Re: Project Natal/Sony Arc Thread (Natal $150 ?)
 
I think Sony and Microsoft just got desperate. They don't want to experiment with motion control in the next gen: they want to do it right and from the start.

Nintendo has shown how a new technology has issues. They also have a lead of a whole generation. Sony and MS just ran out of options. Get on board now, or give up completely.

manasecret 05-28-2010 12:23 PM
Re: Project Natal/Sony Arc Thread (Natal $150 ?)
 
Before a full reply to Xantar, your argument and mine assume two different start times for the next gen. You assume 2014, which if that is the case, then I think you're right that the Move and Natal will be long forgotten and won't be integrated into the next gen.

However, I'm still assuming that -- despite all the blustering I've heard about how expensive the consoles are for MS and Sony this generation -- the next gen will start in 2012, starting with the Wii 2. (That's a gut feeling (i.e. made up), but also based off the timelines I compiled in that other thread about the Move.) In that case, the next gen will begin just as Move and Natal are waning, and would give them a second life moving into next gen.

BreakABone 05-28-2010 01:41 PM
Re: Project Natal/Sony Arc Thread (Natal $150 ?)
 
I agree with Mana, I see the next gen starting in 2012, I wouldn't even be surprised if we heard first hints of a next console at e3 in a few weeks.

The fact is, pretty much all the consoles are running on fumes at this point in terms of games and graphics. And add-ons won't be the way to go.

KillerGremlin 05-28-2010 08:30 PM
Re: Project Natal/Sony Arc Thread (Natal $150 ?)
 
BUT THE END OF THE WORLD IS 2012.

Actually, that could be a good marketing strategy.

PS4....$499 dollars, UNLESS THE WORLD ENDS. RIIIIIIDDDDDDGEEEE RACER!!!!

Xbox 540. No really, it makes sense if you've played Tony Hawk and shit.

AND PRESENTING

The Nintendo Pony. Yes, SOMEHOW we have topped the gayness of the code name Dolphin!

ALL 3 CONSOLES WITH LESS WAGGLE. (Prices and participation may vary, waggle-free not guaranteed for Nintendo, in fact Nintendo will probably do some other retarded gimmick or deviation from the norm like not including a damn DVD player or making their controller look like some sex toy for a 3-vagina possessing alien.)




Actually, I agree with Xantar's post 110% and he summed everything up I could have or would have said in a much better way than I could have or would have said it. I also agree with Angrist: I think Sony and Microsoft did get desperate, watching their super-expensive graphic hog consoles (you know, the ones that they are taking a financial hit on per unit sold) get dominated by the waggle Cube.

And personally, I think 2014 is far away so I'd like to see a 2012 console run, but 2014 would not surprise me in the least bit. Do people really expect hints of new consoles at this year's E3? I guess we will have to wait and see...

Xantar 05-28-2010 09:03 PM
Re: Project Natal/Sony Arc Thread (Natal $150 ?)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by manasecret (Post 269339)
However, I'm still assuming that -- despite all the blustering I've heard about how expensive the consoles are for MS and Sony this generation -- the next gen will start in 2012, starting with the Wii 2. (That's a gut feeling (i.e. made up), but also based off the timelines I compiled in that other thread about the Move.) In that case, the next gen will begin just as Move and Natal are waning, and would give them a second life moving into next gen.
OK, so then people will instead be saying, "PS3 has Move? Oh, that thing which nobody bought? Why do we care?" Remember here that we're talking about 5% attachment rates if Microsoft and Sony are lucky. The original Xbox Live did much more to improve the gamer experience and (depending on how you count) arguably cost less than Natal, but only 10% of Xbox owners ever purchased a Live account (things got much better in the next generation, but in the beginning the uptake wasn't very good). My guess is that by holiday season 2011, both Natal and Move will already be written off as failures and by E3 2012 nobody will even want to talk about them.

Peripherals don't get a "second life" by moving into the next generation. Just like animals, once they die they are dead for good. Microsoft and Sony may have motion controls on the Xbox 4pi and the PS4, but they won't be called Natal and Move because they won't want to be associated with failures. By the time of E3 2005, there were still a few games being released that used the GBA-GCN link cable, but Nintendo didn't try to push link connectivity on the Wii. The feature was dead.

BreakABone 05-28-2010 09:18 PM
Re: Project Natal/Sony Arc Thread (Natal $150 ?)
 
Quote:
Platform holder draws the dividing line between itself and its competitors ahead of E3

Anyone who thinks PlayStation move is simply Wii on PS3 has got it wrong – that’s the message Sony wants to put out ahead of its more detailed reveal of Move at E3 next month.

Several high-profile commentators, including the likes of Nintendo boss Reggie Fils-Aime and analyst Michael Pachter, have dismissed Move as simply a clone of the existing machine.

However, much like Sega boss Mike Hayes, Sony thinks the comparison is wide of the mark.

“It’s inevitable that people would say this is Wii on PS3,” UK PR boss David Wilson told MCV. “But we see it as a complimentary product. It’s a different proposition.

“And let’s not forget, we’ve been in this space before with EyeToy and all the rest of it. There are learnings there. It’s not alien territory for us but we need to educate people about the potential that it has.”

Sales director Mark Howsen added: “Wii was deliberately pick up and play. We completely understand that and, let’s be honest, they’ve done a superb job.

“I think with Move it’s all about appealing to skill. It’s about the learning curve that’s built into the experience. It provides that satisfaction you’re talking about. The more you play the better you get. That’s part and parcel of the traditional gaming experience.”
http://www.mcvuk.com/news/39200/Sony...not-Wii-on-PS3

Xantar 05-28-2010 09:36 PM
Re: Project Natal/Sony Arc Thread (Natal $150 ?)
 
Quote:
“Wii was deliberately pick up and play. We completely understand that and, let’s be honest, they’ve done a superb job.

“I think with Move it’s all about appealing to skill. It’s about the learning curve that’s built into the experience. It provides that satisfaction you’re talking about. The more you play the better you get. That’s part and parcel of the traditional gaming experience.”
I give this a 7 out of 10 for PR spin. It gets that many points for being completely vague and non-specific while still sounding like it says something, but it loses points for not using the words "synergy," "leverage," or "community."

BreakABone 05-29-2010 07:26 PM
Re: Project Natal/Sony Arc Thread (Natal $150 ?)
 


Some of the tech behind the Move is so impressive, but than I also ask myself is how would it be used practically in a game.

Typhoid 05-30-2010 04:06 AM
Re: Project Natal/Sony Arc Thread (Natal $150 ?)
 
Quote:
Some of the tech behind the Move is so impressive, but than I also ask myself is how would it be used practically in a game.

I could see it practically used for various arcade-style/wii-heavy games.

Boxing, shooters, cheesy 2d fighters, etc.
I think it looks great for that. I just hope they'll pick it up.

Angrist 05-31-2010 11:33 AM
Re: Project Natal/Sony Arc Thread (Natal $150 ?)
 
Like I said, it looks like a great toy. Now launch PS4 with it so we can play some good games with it.

BreakABone 06-05-2010 09:38 AM
Re: Project Natal/Sony Move Thread (Natal $150 ?)
 


Looks like finally showed off multi.

Angrist 06-07-2010 09:06 AM
Re: Project Natal/Sony Move Thread (Natal $150 ?)
 
Looks like those people had to sell their furniture to be able to buy Natal. :D


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