Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Obama
 

You decide.

Re: Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Obama
 

.

Re: Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Obama
 

I personally don't care.
I don't understand why there has to be only one representative of each party, opposed to the people picking whoever they want.

Anyways - woman, black guy - who cares.
It's either history either way, or a Republican victory.

Re: Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Obama
 

Because it would split that party's votes and the other party would run away with a victory.

Re: Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Obama
 

Well, I could vote for either one, I think they would both make great Presidents. Although ive gotta go with Obama being an Illlinois native.

Re: Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Obama
 

It just seems a little retarded to have a pre-vote to who you're going to vote for.

Because if the people who vote for Clinton to win over Obama are really pissed off, they might not vote in the actual election itself anyways, because the candidate isn't the one they approve of.

I say don't elect the candidates per party, appoint them. The party decides who they want to lead them in the election, opposed to a little over half the democrats who support that person. That way instead of getting (roughly) half the countries voters to vote democrat, you might only get a little over a quarter of them to vote. If they get choked enough.

Re: Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Obama
 

Definitely Obama. He was always my second choice behind Dennis Kucinich who I knew would have to drop out anyway. Though the Pennsylvania primaries aren't until April or something anyway so I guess I don't have much say unless things aren't decided until then.

Re: Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Obama
 

I think when one of them wins democratic candidacy, they should put the other on their ticket as vice president.

Everyone wins!

Re: Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Obama
 

Haha.

Wait a minute, could Hilary run with Bill as her vice president? Is that constitutional allowed?

Re: Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Obama
 

Hillary by far. Even though I disagree with most of her policies, she is at least somewhat experienced, unlike Obama. Honestly, I think Obama is utterly clueless. His speeches sound wonderful at the time, but once they're finsihed I can't remember a single substantive argument he made.

His entire run for president is based on cliches ("It's time for change!") and good feelings (The audacity of hope). So far I haven't heard a damn thing I could even consider an actual policy. To be fair, I view Huckabee the same way.

Oh well, Rudy's out, so it doesn't matter much to me anyway. I think whoever the democrat is, they will win the election, if only because I think Ron Paul is positioning for a 3rd prty ticket run and he'll suck enough votes away that any Republican candidate is guaranteed to lose.

Re: Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Obama
 

I would like the poll to be opened so we can see who voted for who. People can't hide from the truth.

Re: Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Obama
 

We got Mr. Exit Poll over here

Re: Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Obama
 

Technically no.
Since he would be direct ascention in case of an accident to Hilary. And he could only legally hold office, I believe for another 2 years.

I like Obama

Re: Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Obama
 

It could just move on to the Speaker couldn't it? Skip the VP?

Re: Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Obama
 

I hear this so much, and its a nonsense cop out arguement. Who cares if Obama "dosent have much experience." As far as im concerned, thats exactly what we need. Someone who isnt a typical politician. I mean, look what "experience" got us the past 8 years, one of the worst presidents ever.

Re: Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Obama
 

The last Clinton we had did a pretty good job so I wouldn't mind if Hilary or Obama got elected. I think Obama has a more genuine approach to politics because he is inexperienced. So far I'm leaning towards Obama but whatever. America needs radical change, we need a complete 180 in Washington. We need to rebuild our image to the rest of the world, we need to get the fuck outta Iraq, drop a few bombs on the Al-Qaeda, deal with China and fix welfare. Instead of spending a bajillion dollars on a war for oil we need to research alternative fuel. The average person driving a Honda Civic or a family van should be able to do so using alternative fuels. We need to get SUVs of the road. I'm not happy to be an American right now. Hopefully whoever gets elected can bring change to this country.

I just wish Al Gore won...

Re: Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Obama
 

Well put. If Gore wouldve won, I guarantee you we wouldnt be paying 3 dollars a gallon for gas. Also, the entire world wouldnt hate us as they do now. When Hiliary or Barack win, gas prices will come down. Might not be instantly, but they will.

Re: Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Obama
 

Sorry, but I think you need to finish at least a single term in a major office to be even considered for president. But lets accept your argument, then what about my argument that he has NO REAL POLICIES. He literally runs on on high hopes and good feelings. Inspirational speaking only takes you so far.

He is the Tony Robbins candidate. Sounds great but says nothing. When Hillary described his positions as naive, she wasn't kidding.

And you right about gas prices and Al Gore. We definitely wouldn't be paying three dollars a gallon... more like five after all the taxes he would have placed on gas to "encourage" us to make "smarter decisions".

Re: Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Obama
 

I'm super cereal!

Re: Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Obama
 

Swapping one politician with another politician still leaves you with politics, and politics is corrupt from the inside out. Good on you for believing in the American dream, but I hate to break it to you, one man doesn't change policy. Hell, he can't even make a law, and doesn't determine most policy. He's simply your scapegoat.

Re: Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Obama
 

well why don't we all just kill ourselves?

Re: Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Obama
 

If you truly care about America and want your voice to be heard you'll do what I did today.

Choose not to vote. I didn't go vote and I encouraged everyone and their grandmother to do the same.

By not playing into their little popularity contest you FORCE them to listen.

And when they finally start listening, you bend them to your will.

Re: Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Obama
 

By not "playing along", they just ignore you. Not voting doesn't send a message to anyone, as its the EXACT OPPOSITE of communicating in politics. If you don't vote, expect them to not care what you think. They don't have to because you don't affect their election so you matter to them.

And Gekko, I've heard that tired cliche of "it doesn't matter, we're all screwed" before and it just shows apathy and a refusal to take the personal effort to care. IMO, you just don't want to take the time or the effort to become inviolved in the election process, so instead you just say it doesn't matter. That frees you from the burden of choice.

Re: Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Obama
 

Just got done filling out my application for an absentee ballot. Bit of an inconvenience, but not too bad...

Re: Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Obama
 

Actually, I don't believe in the "lesser of two evils" theory. When I cast a vote it means I want someone in office, and in reality, there's no one on the ballot I would want as President of this country.

Re: Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Obama
 

Hey! I didn't vote either! But that's only because independents aren't allowed to vote in the primaries... (and because I hate how "official": the primaries are, but mostly because I just plain couldn't.)

Re: Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Obama
 

Oh, oh! What is this!?

Re: Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Obama
 

Well McCain is pretty much a lock now, which is fine by me. He's the closest in policy to Rudy who was my favorite.

I think Romney caused his own downfall in the elections. Instead of running as the moderate economist he is, he tried to paint himself as the social conservative, and that killed him in the polls as no one believed it. His exit speech was excellent, though, beyond the rediculous "marriage protection" amendment.

On a side note, my experiment as a registered Republican is about to end. Im so embarrassed by the way that the conservative commentators have reacted to McCain's ascension that I'll be an Independent again next election. It's shameful.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and Ron Paul is a racist whack-job asshole. I always have to sneak that one in.

Re: Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Obama
 

So...with McCain running...
that like seals the deal for the Democrats, right? You know it sucks when the true conservative Republicans don't like you. Oh well.

Re: Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Obama
 

Well, yes and no. Heres the thing about McCain: Independents LOVE him. In states where Independents could vote in primaries, they overwhelmingly chose McCain because of his reputation as being a free thinking pragmatist and willingness to step across the isle when it serves his cause.

Right wing conservatives have a knee jerk hatred of McCain because he doesn't step in line (or pick fights with Democrats), but I think that can pass in time, especially when the race boils down to either McCain vs. Hillary or especially Obama. The Democrat contenders lean WAY left this election, bordering socialism in many policies, and I think that will shock a lot of conservatives into voting for McCain as the lesser of two evils.

If conservatives come out to vote for the most part and don't try and do some silly boycott, I think McCain has the best chance of any Republican of winning.

Re: Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Obama
 

If Hiliary wins the primary, I would say Mcain might have a chance. Thats still a big might. If Obama wins, he has no chance.

Re: Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Obama
 

Personally I think Obama is going to get anally raped in the general regardless of who he runs against. You can only get by on bullshit and catch phrases for so long before people start asking questions about your experience and actual political platforms.

In the end, his far left state representative record will get full daylight in a general election, something Hillary can't do for fear of alienating the leftist/MoveOn.org base, and that will alienate him from many of the independent supporters than he is pandering to right now. The Republican campaign machine is ruthless, and Obama has so many areas in his past to exploit that he might not win back his Senate seat after the presidential election.

Hope Hillary wins. Thats your best shot.

Re: Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Obama
 

Not according to this.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/...ups.schneider/

By "areas in his past" do you mean, "OMG he admitted doing drugs, he's a muslim, his middle name is Hussein, OMG!"

The sad thing is, you're probably right. Our country and the conservatives are asinine enough to bring things up that idiotic and non-relevant that people will believe that it actually matters. It's horrible. It'll just be like the John Kerry swiftboat bullshit where a Viet Nam veteran was as you say "anally raped" for being honest.

I love how honesty is something to attack rather than commend. That's how sad this whole process is.

Re: Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Obama
 

I never said I agreed with it, its just he way it is. I have no problem with Obama's drug use, I used to smoke the dope, but a lot of people will have issues.

I kind of think the Muslim thing is a non-issue, as he isn't one and never was one, but his active membership in a borderline black separatist church might be used against him.

And when it comes down to it, he'll be judged on his past record as well, and the Republican machine will have no issues digging up state rep record which is just to the left of Vladamir Lenin. That will eat up his independent support that will have no issue flipping over to McCain. Add all this up, and you have yourself a big fat loss if conservatives come out to vote.

Kerry was anally raped by the switftboaters due to his own dumbass mistake of running as a war hero after making very public statements against the military after his vietnam service, many of the comments proven to be things that he never witnessed and in many cases never happened. As soon as he said "John Kerry, reporting for duty" at the national convention I knew he was finished.

And don't be so high and mighty in singling out conservatives as being brutal campaigners. The Clintons have their own history when it comes to dirty pool.

Re: Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Obama
 

I'm doing it again, aren't I?

I need to learn when to let a political discussion die...

Re: Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Obama
 

Obama is a very nice, likable guy... but, I think that's his only redeeming quality. Take, for example, JFK, who was also a nice, likable guy, but also had rational policy to back it up. In-fact, Obama is more or less a socialist. He is left of Hillary. I think this will be a problem for many voters, as McCain is more a centrist than anything.

Re: Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Obama
 

Honestly, Professor, I totally disagree with you. I believe that John Mcains Campaign are praying every night that Hillary wins.

Oh, and we cant compare Kerry to Obama. I mean, Obama is a much much much stronger candidate for the Dems. They didnt really even have a ligitimate candidate last election.

Re: Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Obama
 

I wasn't comparing them, I responded to Germs post that compared the tactics used to attack Democrats. I actually think Kerry is about 500% more qualified to be president than Obama.

I can respect you disagreeing with me, but on what are you basing this on? Obama's state and Senatorial record make him one of the most left wing, if not THE most left wing politician in America. Do you think America leans that far left?

Also, can anyone tell me in detailed terms what it is about Obama's policies and platforms that they like so much? I can't think of a single thing he's said that doesn't involve stale platitudes like "Brand New Day", "Now is Our Time" or "Keep Hope Alive"... sorry, wrong populist motivational speaker...

Re: Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Obama
 

Well, the problem might be that you've only listened to him recently. Even as one of his supporters I would agree that the "We Can Change" stuff is getting pretty tired, but for me this really only started during this primary season where momentum and appearance seem more important than issues at this point. Sad but true. Before that during the many Democratic debates leading up to the primaries all we heard about were the issues. The thing is, Obama is my second choice. Policy-wise, the candidate I most agreed with was Dennis Kucinich. Maybe you'll think I'm a whack job for saying that, but I think he had the best and most innovative ideas for the country. Impeaching Dick Cheney, well, not so much, but many of his other ideas were spot on in my mind.

Anyway, back to Obama...I'd rather him talk about the issues more, but that doesn't mean you can't be informed of his stances on Healthcare, Economics, Immigration, Education, Enviorment, Iraq, etc. by doing some extra work..I don't agree with everything, but enough to like him better than Hillary. In the end, the "lack of experience" card doesn't bother me as much, because if the past administration embodies that experience, then I don't want any of that anymore. I just think we have to get out of this Bush/Clinton/Bush/Clinton regime...It's not my only reason and certainly not the best to not vote for someone, but hell, WE CAN CHANGE.

:p

Re: Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Obama
 

Even if you view the "Issues" portion of his website his stances are still extremely vague. He's basically in favor of increasing the welfare state in America. I think the country needs someone who will balance the budget and cut spending after Bush's out of control spending. Of course, since countries continue to invest in our country, our debt isn't really an issue, whereas it would be an issue for smaller countries.