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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Your Religion!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ginkasa

As for your questions of what made God... Nothing did. God just is. Alwats has been. He is the origin. The Alpha and the Omega. The beginning and the end.

If God can "just be"... then why isn't it possible for human and other life to "just be"?

Well... Depends on what you mean. According to science, life, the universe, and everything can't "just be" out of thin air. Its supposed to be impossible for something to just appear out of thin air.

I'm not entirely sure what you're arguing. Are you saying why can't humans have just appeared from nowhere without the help from God? That's supposed to be impossible.

Then only way we could "just be" is if God made us.

Maybe if you are clearer with what exactly you're asking with that question.

*shrugs and walks away*

Re: Your Religion!

Then how can God just be there? That's what doesn't make sense. Something else had to put him/her/it there.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Your Religion!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rndm_Perfection

If God can "just be"... then why isn't it possible for human and other life to "just be"?

because that is a rule of where we are.... everything has a beginning and everything has an end, apparently God himself doesn't follow this because he has no beginning or end. Life has a beginning and an end, as proven to us every day.

According to the Bible god was just there... in the beginning he created the heavens and the earth, there is nothing before the beginning, period... so it's no use trying to find out. It's like trying to figure out what a world would look like if it had 7 dimensions instead of the three we have.

Re: Re: Your Religion!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crono

Then how can God just be there? That's what doesn't make sense. Something else had to put him/her/it there.

Following scientifical law, yes, there would have to have been someone to "make" God.

But God doesn't follow scientifical law. That's the point. God just is. Always has been and always will be. Any sort of physical laws we have in the universe, God does not have to follow.

As I said, God is the beginning and the end. Nobody made him, he was already there. He is the Creator.

*shrugs and walks away*

Re: Re: Re: Your Religion!

And how do we know God doesn't follow scientific laws? That's right, we don't. So... again, I just can't believe he has such "power".

Re: Your Religion!

Quote:

Originally Posted by mickydaniels

I have a hard time believing that some explosion caused the planets to line up in an order, orbit the sun, and do things in set patterns like the universe does. I have never seen any explosions or heard of any explosions that cause order and structure.

But I'm sure you've seen an all powerful superbeing that can create and control everything, right? :rolleyes:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Your Religion!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crono

And how do we know God doesn't follow scientific laws? That's right, we don't. So... again, I just can't believe he has such "power".

If God follows scientifical law, how could he create everything from nothing? How could he perform his miracles?

He couldn't, that's how we know that, at least for God, those "laws" are crap.

In any case, this is probably where at least this part of the debate ends. Once we get to where I'm saying "You just have to have faith" and you're saying "I can't believe such a thing" then there's really nothing we can do to change the other's mind.

*shrugs and walks away*

Re: Re: Re: Re: Your Religion!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crono

And how do we know God doesn't follow scientific laws? That's right, we don't. So... again, I just can't believe he has such "power".

The reason we know he doesn't follow scientiic laws is based off of the question you just asked...

he was there before the begging and he will be here after te end... he is everywhere at all times and can know everything about every person and listen to everybody at the same time... and remember every singe thing ever... he has the power to give life to sand, and he made every mathmatical inch of the earth.... he know's all that has happend and knows all that will happen.

Now tell me, does all of this follow scientific laws?

Re: Re: Your Religion!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crono

Then how can God just be there? That's what doesn't make sense. Something else had to put him/her/it there.

No, because God exists out of time. Don't try even try to imagine it, because it's too complex for us to comprehend (seriously, it'll give you a headache trying to think about it).

God has been, and always will be. When you talk about an all powerful being, you have to try and grasp that He isn't bounded by limitations. I can;t really describe it well, but anyway...

We can't just 'be', because we aren't all powerful beings. We're born, we die, pretty simple concept. We don't have the power to create. Something other than us, (the Creator) however, does have these qualities and this power.

Something, or someone (God), has to have triggered something for the universe to begin, someone eho is not bound by space and time. You say Hydrogen is the basic element of the universe, an element that forms heeavier and more complex elements, but hang on, where did all this Hydrogen come from? If you think about it, all us humans basically made up of electrons, protons and neutrons... Now, say in the event that us coming into being was just a coincidence, do you seriously believe a bunch of electrons, neutrons and protons is suffiecient enough for the creation of a living, breathing creature, that has independant thought that can feel, hear, see and taste things? Something has to have given 'life' to these 'atoms'. I just find it too hard to believe for it to be a coincidence.

For me, the only explanation is that a Gid must exist. I can tell by just reading the Qur'an. Where there are such vivid details about the formation of a zygote in the womb. Remember, this is over 1400 years ago, hundreds of years before any scientiic knowledge was gathered on this subject (and many others). How could anyone, except the Creator know of these intricacies? The Prophet himself was illiterate, and was most definately not a scientist. They didn't have the technology back then to fully understand such detials.

(I wanted to avoid this thread because this has been done so many times before, but I guess I couldn;t resist).

Edit: Something I forgot to mention about the subject of coincidence. Thinking about it, there must have been alot of coincidences to occur, trillions and billions of the 'same' conicidences/miracles. it just isn't plausible.

And about Earth being in the right place at the right time, and why other planets such as Pluto don't have the same luck, is probably something we can't answer for ourselves. Maybe God left these planets and stars here (other than the Sun) for us to gaze at, and admire his creations. Rather like a clue or a hint. As God said himself in the Qur'an, if he wants something to be, he just says Be, and it exists. Sometimes we don't have the answers to everything, and some things we'll never know. You have situations like this in Science too.

Random, you should love how this thread is going, with all the randomness we are discussing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mickydaniels

I don't see how the big bang theory makes any type of sense at all. Let's use an example of a recent explosion that we're all aware of on September 11th. After the planes made the buildings go BOOM, and they were still standing, was anything in some kind of perfect structure, order or anything. I have a hard time believing that some explosion caused the planets to line up in an order, orbit the sun, and do things in set patterns like the universe does. I have never seen any explosions or heard of any explosions that cause order and structure.

You were expecting the september 11 explosion to make a new universe? please. :rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGame

Yes... God is the simple explination.

The Big Bang Theory is suspect... things just don't appear from nothing, especially somthing as complex as life.

Think about the most powerful super computer in the world... the technology that build that is trillions of years behind the technology it would take to build a whole new race of people who can think and survive like humans from scratch. And keep in mind I'm comparing building to building. In how some think we were created, we would have just had to been made by the environment from nothing with nothing aiding us.

People say we grew from organisims... where did they come from? Somewhere down the line somthing put us here... I would believe that before I could believe 'It just happend'

We just happen to be the smartest being on this planet, in the perfect situation..... how and why?

Thats what I was trying to say, exactly. Its too many coincidences.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crono

The Big Bang Theory isn't an explosion that could take down two buildings. In this case, you're talking about a very small explosion (it may have killed 2000+ people, but the explosion is very small). On the other hand, the Big Bang would've been a massive explosion, nothing you could ever dream or think of, it would've been an explosion of 100s of billions of km in diameter, releasing massive amounts of Hydrogen in the process. It is said that all other elements (besides Helium, because Hydrogen and Helium are the two most abundant elements in the Universe) were born from Hydrogen through intense nuclear and chemical reactions, which would result in the necessary elements like Oxygen, which would later form Water, with the help of Hydrogen.

When thinking about the Big Bang Theory, it is much more complex than just a regular explosion like you've seen on tv or in movies. This type of explosion would probably wipe out our solar system in a matter of minutes, and like I said, it would release HUGE amounts energy through fusion and/or fission processes. Now, as far as I know, there is no theory on how the explosion actually ccured. I may be wrong, however. But the point I am trying to make is that the Big Bang Theory is much more complex than what you may believe, and because you don't understand the complex nature of physics, you, and many others, will shrug the Big Bang Theory as simply being impossible.

Good explanation. Thanks for setting him straight with your knowledge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Random

I hate infinites and paradoxs, no matter how fun they are to talk about. "There are infinite real numbers between 1 and 2... and also between 6 and 1,000. Therefor, there are the same amount of numbers between both sets". Yes, by doubling infinite, you get infinite... it... makes me... angry!! *smashy smashy*

I think its brilliantly interesting.

Quote:

But seriously, understanding the universe and creation is out of a Gaming Forum's league.

ROFL! Thats hilarious.

Quote:

P.S. If there is a god, what "made" the god?

How the hell am I supposed to know?? lol, seriously, I have a perfect explanation: "At some point in time, God just WAS" Its impossible for humans to concieve how god came to be, because he didnt "come to be." He has been alive for an eternity, which is impossible for our brains to understand.

(Im just going to use crono's quote to sum up all the quotes about Gods existance, it would take to long to quote everyone of them)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crono

Then how can God just be there? That's what doesn't make sense. Something else had to put him/her/it there.

Why? I dont get why its so hard to understand that God just was. Like Ginkasa has been saying, he is the beginning. He is Alpha, there was no one before him to create him, like I have said over and over, God just was.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow

No, because God exists out of time. Don't try even try to imagine it, because it's too complex for us to comprehend (seriously, it'll give you a headache trying to think about it).

God has been, and always will be. When you talk about an all powerful being, you have to try and grasp that He isn't bounded by limitations. I can;t really describe it well, but anyway...

We can't just 'be', because we aren't all powerful beings. We're born, we die, pretty simple concept. We don't have the power to create. Something other than us, (the Creator) however, does have these qualities and this power.

Something, or someone (God), has to have triggered something for the universe to begin, someone eho is not bound by space and time. You say Hydrogen is the basic element of the universe, an element that forms heeavier and more complex elements, but hang on, where did all this Hydrogen come from? If you think about it, all us humans basically made up of electrons, protons and neutrons... Now, say in the event that us coming into being was just a coincidence, do you seriously believe a bunch of electrons, neutrons and protons is suffiecient enough for the creation of a living, breathing creature, that has independant thought that can feel, hear, see and taste things? Something has to have given 'life' to these 'atoms'.

For me, the only explanation is that a Gid must exist. I can tell by just reading the Qur'an. Where there are such vivid details about the formation of a zygote in the womb. Remember, this is over 1400 years ago, hundreds of years before any scientiic knowledge was gathered on this subject (and many others). How could anyone, except the Creator know of these intricacies? The Prophet himself was illiterate, and was most definately not a scientist. They didn't have the technology back then to fully understand such detials.

(I wanted to avoid this thread because this has been done so many times before, but I guess I couldn;t resist).

Good job, Shadow_Link. It makes me posting anything regarding this pretty much obsolete, because you summed up everything I would have said.

[Edit] Attack of the link avatars. sorry about the quote mistake, shadow.

Re: Your Religion!

But... we have no facts that a God actually exists. And like Ginkasa said, I guess this is just where the debate ends... neither side can win because both sides do not have the right facts to prove the existence of a God.

Re: Re: Your Religion!

Although you can also not disprove the existence of God. So you have to question which side the burden of proof lands on? And it lands on neither.

Uh, it was me that posted that, not Ginkasa :)