Re: Donkey Kong Country Returns
 

By releasing some games, even just a few, like Kart and Brawl, with the option to use different controllers/formats, they created that expectation. And I love those games - I played Mario Kart Wii just yesterday (I used a gcn controller).

I see the Wii as a system with motion controls, not a motion control system. I feel like it's in everyone's best interest (both the players and Nintendo), to provide plenty of control options for any given game. If the motion controls are good and they work and are fun, people will use them. If they aren't, people won't, and if you don't provide any other alternative, people won't buy the game, just like I'm doing.

Controls are the single most important aspect of a game - it's your interface into that world. It's just something I can't look past.

A good example of what I mean is the DS, almost every DS game except the ones that use touching as a game component, give you alternatives. Often I use a combination of buttons and the touch screen. Giving players this option, and not forcing them to use the touch screen, has not been detrimental to the system at all.

Re: Donkey Kong Country Returns
 

Kart and Brawl are 2 of the best selling games that Nintendo has, not to mention they were released roughly around the beginning of the consoles life. By not having the use of a Gamecube controllers on those games would have been a really bad move sales-wise, as those games were really huge during the Gamecube's run. Donkey Kong Country, however - was not. So there are no die-hard DKC fans who stayed up late nights perfecting thumb twitches with a Gamecube controller. SNES controller, sure.

But I don't see what the problem is with DKCR. Much like New Super Mario Bros Wii, Either get used to the controls they have available (Like using the wiimote sideways, for example) - or just don't play the game.

Re: Donkey Kong Country Returns
 

So how is encouraging people to sell their Wii a good strategy for Nintendo? They want to make money; they know there's an audience that would rather use buttons instead of gestures...

It's like that story a while back where Nintendo encouraged Eurocom to 'innovate the controls' in the Golden Eye remake. They ended up with some tacked on, crappy option to strafe by holding the A-button. Something similar worked for Metroid 1 & 2, but guess why it wasn't in MP3. It's a stupid option that nobody will use.
But hey, at least they're letting you choose.

Now with DKCR, Nintendo probably told Retro "add motion controls." Although they prefered rolling/pounding/blowing with a button, they had to map that to a gesture. And because of that, they had to disable GC/CC support. Yay, Wii is a motion console, whether it works or not!! :unsure:

Re: Donkey Kong Country Returns
 

They aren't encouraging you to sell your Wii. I am. If you don't like what is out for the Wii, or you don't like the way the system is played - stop complaining and get rid of your system - because you (the people who complain about the controls) clearly don't like it as a whole.


Angrist, I don't think you're understanding why Mario Kart Wii and Smash Bros have GC controls, and other games don't.

Those games were huge last gen for Nintendo. And everyone who played those games played them on GC controllers. The reason it's an option for those games is because everyone who played them previous - played them with a Gamecube controller.

However - nobody played Donkey Kong Country (or Super Mario Bros, for that matter) on a Gamecube controller. They aren't alienating anyone by not using a Gamecube controller. The last time people played DKC was with an SNES (Same for Super Mario bros), so by allowing you to tilt the controller on it's side, it has much of the same (relative) layout as the previous installments of those specific games.

Now, if DKC and Super Mario Bros. were out for the Gamecube, then sure - you guys would have a compelling argument and some type of case. But since DKC hasn't been around since the SNES, your collective complaining just seems pointless.

Re: Donkey Kong Country Returns
 

I'm not talking about MKW and SSBB. I'm talking about the best controls for a game, and offering mutliple options just to please fans (and increase sales).

I suspect that for NSMBWii, which is a 4-player game, the lack of GC support is there to push Wiimote sales. I understand that, although I don't like it.
But with DKC 99% of the people will already have 2 Wiimotes.

The Classic Controller was made with classic games in mind. DKC is a very classic game, but it doesn't support the controller. Why? Because of 1 tacked on waggle that a lot of gamers say doesn't work well.

Re: Donkey Kong Country Returns
 

Okay I will say this again, this isn't really about Donkey Kong Country Returns alone, its about the general notion that Nintendo should include Cube/Classic Controller support in their games because people prefer it.
Replace DKCR with Galaxy, NSMBW, Kirby, Metroid, etc etc


Is Nintendo being stubborn or are gamers being stubborn?
How many years can people hold their breathes, Nintendo's not treating us right. We want Cube/classic/PS3/360 type controls in our game, and they shown time and time again they won't do it. Again Prime 3, Zelda, Galaxy 1/2, Endless Ocean, Kirby, Other M, the list goes on and on.

Which is perfectly fine I guess, but I find it odd that someone throws a stink about something when technically they haven't played it. I mean for all you know, it could work better for you than it did for me.

The BIG difference between the chuck and the Classic Controller, and I'm sure you thought about this when posted, is one comes standard with the console, the other you have to buy on its own. They aren't comparable at all.

So let me ask, would you advocate Microsoft get Epic to include Kinect controls in the next Gears of War? Or maybe a patch for Halo Reach? Both of those would help get new people to buy your game... I don't think it makes sense, but from your point of view, its terrible business not to.

Before we continue, how many Nintendo games allow you to mess around with your buttons? I can be wrong but I can't think of many since the SNES, and even then most of their games didn't allow it. They've always been stubborn on button placement.


And even with Mario Kart, I think the Wii controls took centerstage, and they threw a bone to the rest of the people. Personally, I really dislike the Cube controls for that game since they throw tricks onto the d-pad which I thought was an odd decision.

Your logic doesn't match the reality of the situation that most of their games are doing much better than the last two gens without the option for classic control support. And we won't even mention the gulf that is the difference between the console userbase they had on the Cube and the Wii.

Some people won't buy it, but how is that any different than any other game?


And that is because the DS includes buttons.

Like I said if you want Nintendo to offer options in their games that use the Wii-mote and Chuck without motion that is semi-viable.

To fix your DS analog, it would be like having a USB adapter to use your Cube controller on DS games instead of using the touch-screen/mic or the dual screen set up. Because you have to include a new party that isn't standard with the console.

Do they?
I mean if I'm Nintendo and I see that NSMBW has sold more than any Mario game in 15 years, I assume people want motion and they want 2D.
If I see TP sold better than Wind Waker, I assume people want motion in their Zelda games.
And it goes on and on down the list.
Motion controls haven't hurt the sales of any of their franchise this generation, aside from Metroid, but that's been on a downward slope since Prime.
I'm not sure what you are talking about?
And I've played Goldeneye to completion, so explanation?

I could see the first part, but the 2nd part wasn't gonna happen. Even if it had no motion, I don't think Nintendo would have offered GC/CC support. A case could be made that Metroid: Other M has no motion but doesn't offer GCN/CC support.

And ground pound and blowing are perfectly suited for a control, they aren't anything you need to do in a pinch. The problem really comes from mapping all 3 actions to the same motion.

Long rant, shorter version.
I really don't get the point in not making your default controller, the default set up for your consoles and its game nor do I think you need to compensate for people who want other options. If the game benefits from it and doesn't hurt using it with the core control fine, but don't complain if its not there. Its not mandatory, and really other than the Wii, there is no other console that has ever allowed you to re-use controls.

Re: Donkey Kong Country Returns
 

This is the Golden Eye thing I'm talking about: http://www.cubed3.com/news/14711/
There were some more articles on it but I don't have the time to look it up. And Metroid other M did use motion: IR aiming. It felt good for that game (at least I've heard no complaints). It also worked well for NSMBWii. But apparently not for DKCR, else we wouldn't have this discussion.

Re: Donkey Kong Country Returns
 

Whoa, you guys talk too much :p

I'll just say one thing and get out.

When I play with the Wii controller, which is split up into 2 different pieces that move independently from each other, I don't feel as if I'm in control of the controller, and in a way, the game. It just feels loose. In games like Mario Kart, SSB and stuff, I need to feel in control - these are fast paced games.

The same thing goes for 2D platformers - there are a lot of sections that need perfect timing, pinpoint jumping or crazy amounts of button pressing.

Re: Donkey Kong Country Returns
 

I do love the split controller (Wiimote + nunchuck) for most games (Zelda, Mario Galaxy, Battalion Wars ii...).

When (not if) I get DKCR, I'll most probably play it with the remote in NES style. It looks like a game that's better with a D-pad.

Re: Donkey Kong Country Returns
 

I was playing on Sunday and got up to 7-5/Cog Jog. I had already gotten all the letters and puzzle pieces in that stage and the others before it. So after I got home from work, I just decided "what the heck" and went and completed all the remaining levels. So I finished it all last night. Even the Golden Palace.

In the Cliff area, 6-K/Perilous Passage has got to be the worst K level of them all. I mean, trying to escape all that lava while ascending, and those bats that follow you. Talk about a pain in the neck. Treacherous Track wasn't all that bad. Actually it must have been the only K level that didn't frustrate the hell out of me. I'm just glad that the game doesn't make you retrieve puzzle pieces again after losing lives in the stage in which they're found, like it does the letters. In 8-K/Five Monkey Trial, I NEEDED to get Diddy for this one, because it's way too easy to take hits in the last two parts. So the more hits I'm able to take while trying to finish that one, the better.

The rocket barrel stages are a pain, but 7-4/Gear Getaway and 8-2/Hot Rocket might have been the easiest ones for me to finish while getting all the puzzle pieces.

I tried finishing the Golden Palace with all five of its puzzle pieces. I can't believe how hard it was for me to get past the part with the three pillars with the exploding cherries on top. I only had Donkey Kong and I just couldn't make the jump with him. So I decided to get Diddy Kong from one of the levels and return to the Golden Palace level with him. Jumps from platform to platform were much easier that way. Now that I've finished the Golden Palace level, I've unlocked Mirror Mode, which I don't think I'm going to bother with. The levels were hard enough, and now they're reversing them, and making it so that only one hit can take you out, you can't use any items before going in the stages, and no help from Diddy? Yeah, no thanks. Though at least they don't make you get all the puzzle pieces and letters again.

Re: Donkey Kong Country Returns
 

I've been playing this game for a while and I'm currently in the Forest area. I don't really have any complaints with the controls like everyone else does. I use the Wii Remote sideways, because it feels most like the original DKC games. As mentioned, you do have to shake and hold left or right to roll, but it just became kind of natural after a while. I can't remember how rolling worked for this SNES, but I believe while you were running you'd let go of Y and then hold the direction and press Y again to make Donkey Kong roll. I guess that Nintendo could have brought that back, but it's fine how it is.

The music and the levels do bring back memories for me. I know that there are a lot of differences, but this game is great in my opinion. I also like that there's a co-op mode, because not enough games have that these days. All of the levels do have replay value, because you have to go back to get puzzle pieces, and the KONG letters. Also, there's the time attack mode, where you try to beat the levels in a certain time to get either a bronze, silver, or gold medal. So I'm sure that this game will keep me entertained for a while.

I'm kind of biased because DKC is my favorite game of all time, but DKCR is a great homage to the DKC series, and one of the better games to come out on the Wii this year.

Re: Donkey Kong Country Returns
 

I want to pick this up when it's a bit cheaper. I'm sure it's a game I would love.

Re: Donkey Kong Country Returns
 

I am currently in world 8. This game is a lot of fun. I am so happy that it is as difficult as it is. A nice good challenge, especially if you are planning to get all the letters and puzzle pieces.