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I can only hope to one day be able to weave such a tapestry of prose as you do on a daily basis. I bow to thine literary genius.

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His one liners are generally humerous. However, when he responds to a really long post, it's just too much of a jumble to care about reading.

By the way, did Neo turn up the frequency with which he posts? It seems he's posting a lot more frequently lately.

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I thought he was at 5% but it looks like he's at 15%.

What's the real story behind WMD? As far as I can tell, there weren't any. And the UN scamming people and funding Saddam? That doesn't sound like the most credible thing i've ever heard. I do remember that American funded Iraq a long time ago to fight Iran whch Russia was backing. I also remember that America backed Saddam and wished for him to be in a position of power. Also, the fact that Americans have killed many more Iraqis than Saddam over the last two decades sort of bothers me. I couldn't find the total estimate. Only the estimate of children. I think I remember 500,000.

I don't feel that trying to take one guy out of power calls for killing children and other civilians. You side step that when you argue and continue to talk about how just the war is and how ignorant I am. People have been taken out of power without shooting up the entire place before. And sure, you probably still should be there until a new leader is put in power. But that still doesn't warrant shooting innocent people.

But,hey, if America wants to become the iron fist all of a sudden and crack down on these evil men, there's a few other ruthless murderous dictators that America has put in power or backed that are also senslessly killing people. A prime example is the Saudi Arabian royal family (Bin Laden's family). They've killed far more people than Saddam. But America doesn't go after them even though the terrorists who bombed the WTC were Saudi Arabian. Oh, I forgot. The Saudi Royal family is a business partner with the Bush family and have invested a lot of money in American economy. But wait, they're killnig more people than Saddam has. There are many ruthless murderous leaders out there (some of which America put in power). I wonder why nobody is going after them.

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Whoo... I missed a lot over the weekend :p (I haven't read over all I missed, so what I'm about to say could have been said before)

"Also, the fact that Americans have killed many more Iraqis than Saddam over the last two decades sort of bothers me."
-Dyflon-

The fact that Saddam killed his own people in such a painful way for no reason bothers me even more. That's the equiveant of Bush dropping a Nuke on the US or poisoning the water supply... have you ever thought about that?

I think there are two problems with the war:

#1: US citezens were not able to put a face on many of the people who died september 11th. No superstars died, no faces that everybody in the country is famillair with died, and a building that most of the population has never went and seen was destroied. While in the war on terrorism people can put a face on a lot of soldiers who are going out to die. By soldiers dying and going out to die every corner of the country is affected to some extent

#2: America is way too soft. If you are going to fight in a war, fight by there rukes not your own. America looks at war as a boxing match, where how you fight is "honerable" while Iraq is looking at the war as a wrestling match, where you do everything it takes to win. Right now only one side is wearing the gloves, and that's why so many of the soldiers are dying. If Iraq had nukes they would try and Nuke US, if Iraq had the millitary of US they would go in and kill us mercylessly... Right now by our "Boxing match" rules the war is over, but we are still getting smashed over the back of the head with a chair ;)

I say US should stoop to there level... drop a Nuke in the desert and scare the **** out of the Iraqi citezens, and say that if they don't obey we are going to drop another right on Baghdad. That would lower the death toll by a huge amount and if they don't obey even then, that will prove that they are incapible of following our orders and every man should be either killed or put in prison.

People don't understand that Iraq has a whole different society than us, they have different thoughts than us on what's right and what's wrong, what's weak and what's strong. Right now we are weak... and if we back out that's only going to make other countries' (who hate us) will power against us stronger. They will know that us weak americans will eventually give in if you keep fighting... hell, they already think that way because of past events! But this war is the ultimate example war, if we back out we will never EVER be able to win a war again without wiping out another country's whole population, period.

Ether they are going to learn that we will keep fighting until the smaller country obeys, or they are going to learn that if they keep fighting as long as there is a breath in there body, America may give in. Thus this war is one of the most important wars ever.

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The second we drop a Nuke in Iraq is the day the whole world turns on the US.

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I can't say I disagree... but the main point I was trying to make with the post is:

1) What we are doing now will not slow down american casualties due to the Middle east mentality, because in there eyes we are viewed as weak and it would take somthing as outragous as a Nuke to stop them.
2) And at the same time we can't pull out because we would only make things harder for us in the future, in the middle east or otherwise.

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I was just going to leave this alone, but I can't let this stand the way Dyflon wants to portray it.

If you actually bothered to go check out the thread that I posted IN THIS THREAD you would see that I explained the WMD situation pretty thoroughly. I don't feelthe need to do it again. Go back to my earlier post and check out the link and then respond.

Well I will repeat myself in this area, as I have done numerous times before:

The UN set up the Oil for Food program after the first Gulf War in a veiled attempt to continue to profit from such an oil rich country as Iraq while there were still sanctions. The premise was that Iraq would sell oil to countries in the UN, such as Russia, France and Germany (GO FIGURE!), in exchange for Food and Medicine. What was happening was that these UN countries were purchasing back these supplies at a greatly discounted rate for nearly a decade. Saddam would then take that money and purchase equipment from Germany (biological and chemical equipment) and Russia (military equipment, the Republican Guard used Russian tanks if you remember).

All of this was against UN regulations, and yet these same countries came out against the US invading because they felt it was wrong, even though Iraq was in flagrant violation of UN resolutions. Personally I think allowing Saddam to starve his own people and let them die of famine so he can spend top dollar for illegal equipment and build 25 palaces from 1994 to 2003 is wrong, bordering on disgusting.

I won't even mention the clandestine oil deals that had nothing to do with the Oil for Food program.

And this is all FACT, even though I'm not surprised you haven't head about it. Not many people heard about Saddam training the terrorists that bombed the world trade center either. Hell, that barely got out of the London Telegraph.

You also have to remember that at that time Russia was the US's greatest enemy and that Iran had a hostage fetish for Americans. You can't always look through history with today's eyes.

PLEASE show me the resource for that little tidbit of information. I'm begging you, post a link.

Do I need to show you the posts that directly answered that charge? Its called WAR and innocents get caught in the middle sometimes. The US has done everything they can do to avoid civilian casualties, which I've already said in this thread.

As I mentioned before, again in this thread, if we were going to remove Saddam we HAD to take contol of the government for the sake of the Iraqi people. Just removing Saddam would have led to choas and death. Even you would hav eto agree with that assumption. And in the end it would have probably led to a worse authoritarian government.

I agree that shooting innocents is wrong, but I also know that US troops aren't just walking around shooting Iraqi civilians. The video you posted is one fo the more horrible pieces of yellow journalism I've ever seen. The interview with the soldier is edited with the intent of making him look as evil as possible. In the end we have no idea what the situation surrounding that shooting really was. We don't know if he was a bomber, had a gun, or what have you. The enemy doesn't wear uniforms anymore.

You photos are equally out of context, but still very sad to see. But once again, this is a war and you have to keep your eye on the big picture.

I'd like to see documentation on that. I have a feeling your counting bodies without a sense of why the bodies are there.

They're also one of the two Arab nations that allow us to have a presence in the Middle East. Without them Kuwait would still be under Saddam's rule and who knows who else would have gone down next. Without Saudi Arabia the world might be a much more scary place right now.

One at a time, please. One at a time. Plus, the war is actually acting as a warning to many ruthless dictators, such as Khadafi (sp?) who ahs just agreed to UN inspections and promised to stop harboring terrorists (we'll see how that works out). The word is out.

As for the other arab nations that are considered despotic, the plan is for a democratic Iraq to help change the entire area. No one ing the Middle East has EVER known a true democracy. Once they see one operating with leaders chosen by the people, that may change. You just can't go around bopping everyone you don't like on the head. You have to have a long term plan, and by long term I mean years and not months.

By the way, you've quoted some pretty interesting numbers in your last post, please back them up.

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No, in their eyes, and most of the rest of the world, you are viewed as pushy a**holes

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Lol, Strangler. Knew that would hook you back in.

But I am in fact done. This has gone on for quite the long time and peace should once again return to these boards. I have resources for the Saudi thing and some of the other things I said but it's in books and magazines and it would be a lot of writing.

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I heard on CBS that a month or 2 before the elections, the Saudi's are gonna drop gas prices so it makes the US look like the economy is getting better thus giving Bush the win. Now I dont give a damn what party you're in but if your gonna do tactics like this, you dont deserve to be president. The gov't needs a serious overhaul.

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So I actually ask you to reference some pretty ludicrous numbers, and NOW you decide to quit. Why am I not suprised?

Your opinions continue to be backed up by nothing. Absolutely nothing. Have fun. I hope its comfortable under that rock.

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I love my 3' rocks. They work better then your 2 foot rocks Strangler:p:D

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Um...to be fair you quit before I did. I don't want to spend an hour writing articles and quoting sources.

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Thats because you don't have any. I'm out.

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Wow......see, you are the reason i have no desire to travel to the US, in fear of meeting an a**hole like yourself, not saying all americans are, just you though. You confirm my stereotypical attitude that most Americans have an attitude like yourself, and for bringing your countrymen down a notch or two, i salute you!

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Don't worry, you'll see the US soon enough once we annex Canada for the trees. I also apologize for being an "a**hole", but I tend not to take well to ignorant doofus's who spout off on topics they no idea about and just repeat what someone else tells them without bothering to think for themselves. "The problem is not with the stars, it is with ourselves". Take that to heart.

I also found it funny that you came to the "a**hole" conclusion when I actually asked Dyflon to present his resources for his claims. If doing that makes me an "a**hole", I'll be a proud one for the rest of my life.

For the record, this was specifically targeted at Typhoid and I actually like Canada (even if Montreal is filled with most rude people who have ever existed, but Toronto and St. Catherines rule).

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What makes you say that I will see the US soon enough once we annex Canada for the trees.
Worry is not an emotion I experience.Also? There is no need to apologize. Your purpose is being an a**hole but he or she tend not to take well to ignorant doofus's who spout off on topics they no idea about and just repeat what someone else tells them without bothering to think for themselves.I assume you mean our current problem.Where do you want me to take it?Your purpose is the record this was specifically targeted at Typhoid and he or she actually like Canada even if Montreal is filled with most rude people who have ever existed but Toronto and St.What do you have that is ?

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What? In english please.

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Hehe...

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If we were "pushy a**holes" we would own the whole western hemisphere by now, and there wouild be no middle east. What we are doing is eliminating a threat. We have much more power than we use, and we are holding back ourselves by using the the world wide "rules of war"

Yes, instead of blowing the middle east off of the face of the earth we are walking in letting our soldiers be killed and taking them out (and acctually trying to help them) in an honerable way just so the main powers of the world don't get mad at us.

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Yeah, Typhoid. You are generalizing and what you're saying is extremely prejudiced. There are many great americans. Sure there are some jerk and people from Alabama but for the most part Americans are okay. You can't pin the actions of the country on the people who live in it.

Although I have encountered a lot of rude americans. But most of them seem to be in my parent's generation. This generation seems to be much more well mannered.

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You guys dont like to read do you? I never said i thought you ( Americans) were pushy a**holes, i said the rest of the world views you that way. I dont believe its true, i think that their are a few people in The US who are true A**holes, just like in Canada. I never said that everyone was an ass, read it this time. Ill save you the time.
befor you start the hate train rolling, try reading, its that thing they try to teach us in school

(And dylflon, its not generalization, because i said only a few are,if i sadi every single American is, then yes, it is. But in this case its personal experience. You even said you met some annoying Americans from your parents generation, i said something along those lines, except i didnt say the generation)

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Montreal is the most English city in Quebec (except for maybe Gatineau, where I was born). But if you think that's bad try going deeper in Quebec, like Québec City and Trois Rivières.

When I go to Québec most people there are nice, I don't know why people get this idea that most people are rude there. I guess it's mostly the older generation (or the fact that you're American, sad but may be true), but people my age are different that what you might expect. I have cousins in Quebec that are very into American pop culture just like the rest of Canada is..

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Maybe people think that PDQ is rude because they get the impression that the whole province is French. So they try to put 1 and 1 together, because they also think that all French people are rude. ( And it is sad but true, that French Canadians and French people dont really like The US)...

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Well you are generalizing again. Have you ever been to Quebec? Do you have family there? Like I just said, it may be mostly the older generations because all my cousins are who are young (10-21) all like America and it's cultures. I was born in Gatineau and my whole family is French (well one half of my Mom's side is actually Scottish, her Dad is anyway) and they do not fit any general description. And most of them live in Val-d'Or and places where you would never see Americans, but they do not hate the US.

But anyway... on to more important things...

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After this i will stop talking about Quebec. But wow, i said maybe people think that....Maybe....and people and i never said Americans, and i didnt say everyone....I never said i think that, my friend went to Quebec and said the people their are very nice, and i do have family that lives there thank you very much. and for the record, i have no problem with PDQ, in fact when i get eough money i plan to move to Montreal. So dont rag on me for you misunderstanding what i meant..please and thank you...

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Actually, there is something I have been meaning to tell you but I just
couldn't... I think you should know, though. On Saturday morning last week I
saw a guy leaving Rosemary's room... How should I put it, it was like they
were ... "intimate." I'm sorry. Sorry to bring this up during the mission,
but...

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Alright people, clear out. The topic has left the building.