Re: The Passion of Jesus Christ
 

Sure, it did have an effect, but I'm talking about being useful to mankind.

Except being used as an invisible mean of support by the masses, tell me what good, christianity (or any other religions for that matter) has done?

Re: The Passion of Jesus Christ
 

Besides war and segregation and political agenda?

Re: The Passion of Jesus Christ
 

It always amazes me how people can only see the negative in religion at times. Actually it doesn't, because the negative parts have been so well publicized.

Yes, Christianity and religion have inspired much attrocity in the world, but thats when you take apart the last 2,000 years and reduce it to incidents, much like what many pseudo-religious do when they take apart to Bible to put it in self-serving passages.

Looking back in time, Christianity has had more to do with civilizing the world than any other force in history, including the Roman empire. The very morals that we hold dear, that even inspire such contempt for acts condoned by the Church, would not exist of it were not for Christianity or modern religions.

Man is a violent animal. Chaos and anarchy lead to death and hate. Religion has inspired man to love one another outside of mere familial relationships or tribal setting.

Religion is necessary in the world. Without it we would still be in the muck of our own visceral nature.

Re: The Passion of Jesus Christ
 

How would atheism have anything to do with watching this movie?

Re: The Passion of Jesus Christ
 

I believe that, originally, religion was more of a spirituality thing and was very necessary for the growth of man and civilization. That I agree with (also science too). It inspired people to have morals and (with Hell as a punishment) develope a concious. Unfortunately, I also believe that over time, church and religion became (to a point) pretty corrupt, and abusive of the power they had over followers. Religion became a trojan horse in politics, causing religious wars, sado-masochistic laws, witch hunts, etc. I don't really believe the bible is the word of God (although I believe in a God), but more to do with stories and ("news") articles that teach people to lead a better life, and full of stories to inspire and give us something to believe in. It bothers me that people pick and choose what parts to follow, and then taylor it to fit thier needs. If there is one lesson to learn from the bible, its: Love your neighbor and treat people how you want to be treated. In regards to the movie...I MIGHT rent it eventually... however, no matter how many times you rehash the story.. it's still the same, and I know the ending....also, Mel Gibson sucks

Re: The Passion of Jesus Christ
 

rottwylor has a point... in his last post. Cept this part:

"I also believe that over time, church and religion became (to a point) pretty corrupt, and abusive of the power they had over followers. Religion became a trojan horse in politics, causing religious wars, sado-masochistic laws, witch hunts, etc."

You can't blame the book for man's tendancies just because man used it as justification... If you are a true christian you follow the words of Jesus, and if everybody honestly in there heart was trying to be like Jesus and followed his teachings no voilence would be justified.

The old testiment is good, but it's teachings as far as morals are irrelevant. One voice in the bible is important, and that who Christians are supposed to model themselves after. If his words have been edited, it would have had to be edited an AWFUL lot to justify violence.

Re: The Passion of Jesus Christ
 

I honestly don't know if you understood me or not. I wasn't blaming the bible.. I was putting blame on religion and church, who happen to use the bible. And back then, people were so afraid of being heathens and blamed for heresy, that they would have gone to war in the name of God and the bible. No one wanted to go against church and state when it came to religion, and if you did...watch your back. For the matter of words being edited out of the bible.. I don't think it was a matter of being edited. The bible was hand written for centuries, the printed press only came to be a couple hundred years ago. So when you take a book.. rewrite it by hand ( LONG ASS BOOK AT THAT)... and then have to make copies by hand... and do it again... and again... and again... for YEARS... some things tend to get lost. It's like that game where you get a group of people in a circle, and one person whispers a phrase in the persons ear next to him, and when it gets back, the phrase is somewhat skewed. Also, man is a biased creature and likes to cut corners. I think for all intents and purposes, the bible is a postive thing. I just don't think it's being used right. As far as true christians? DON'T get me started on that..ANYWAY... this is about the movie that I won't see... so enough serious talk. WHO WANTS TO SEE ALIEN V. PREDATOR!!!

Re: The Passion of Jesus Christ
 

Alien vs Predator would rock.

Re: The Passion of Jesus Christ
 

I wonder if that will come to gamecube...

Re: The Passion of Jesus Christ
 

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0370263/

During an archaeological expedition in Antartica, a team of scientists and archaeologists find themselves caught up in a battle between a hive of aliens and five teenage predators. Soon, the team realise that only one species can win

Holy ****, five teenage Predators, that sounds incredible. :D

Re: The Passion of Jesus Christ
 

People back then were different than they are today. They didn't cut corners. These were sacred scriptures which they knew by memory, down to the last word. (You would too after copying them so many times.) Thus, they were able to check themselves. They wouldn't have alowed errors because they would have been ashamed to. The Bible has remained surprisingly accurate. Much more so than you give it credit for.

Re: The Passion of Jesus Christ
 

man is flawed today.. he was yesterday... and he will be today. unfortunately through the many different translations the bible went through from different languages (aramaic), there will be a loss in translation. It's a given, some languages don't have the same words that another language has, and will then have to compensate... then it gets translated again...and the same thing happens. I doubt that the people translating and transcribing the bible were flawless in doing so. Since we can't go back in time to check thier personal demons and integrity, we can't assume that they wouldn't allow any errors. So are opinions stay the same.. =)

Re: The Passion of Jesus Christ
 

Here's the problem with the movie from what I've heard.

First of all, it was ONE jew who betrayed jesus, one of his apostles.

secondly, it was the ROMANS who killed jesus, not the jews

thirdly, only one out of the multiple gospels blames the jews for the death of jesus. in the 60's or 70s the Vatican 2 renounced its policy of blaming the jews for jesus' death. mel gibson's extremist point of view ignores this step forward and continues to blame jews.

from what i've heard, the movie has jews spitting on jesus, and has one jew actually punch him in the face.

fourthly, the movie was condemned by the Anti-defamation league as being anti-semetic

at a time when there's enough anti-semetism in the world as it is, with no sign of it decreasing, this movie is the last thing the world needs.

fifthly, apparently gibson associates some sickly, evil looking character symbolizing satan with the jews throught the movie.

mel gibson will not get a cent of my money, and the only way i will see this film is if i pirate it online.

Re: The Passion of Jesus Christ
 

you make an interesting point koopa... if all that is true, i'm sorrry to hear it... but i'll probably still see it

Re: The Passion of Jesus Christ
 

I don't know. As much as there is a lot of Anti-semitiems in the world, there are a lot of people who make bigs deals out of small things.

There's been a review of a guy who was raised with Jewish people (it never said he himself was Jewish however) and that he didn't see anything anti-semitic about it.

You might want to see it yourself, Koopa, before you start listening to all of the people who spout off anti-semitism. Its like listening to all those soccer mom's who say Pokemon is Satanic and give all these "reasons" that are either not true or greatl exagerated.


*shrugs and walks away*

Re: The Passion of Jesus Christ
 

so many interesting points, i'll have to do a little of my own research about this...

Re: The Passion of Jesus Christ
 

In general nowadays, you can count on hearing the complaints on something more than the positive. I think the movie is going to be a good movie and, from what I hear, accurate to the Bible.

Of course the Jews are going to say its anti-semetic because they don't even believe Jesus to be what the Bible says he is. Anything having to do with the life of Jesus raises some arguement among some people because, in today's society, Jesus is one of the most controversial historical figures ever.

Re: The Passion of Jesus Christ
 

the fact that its about jesus has little to do with jewish reactions to the movie. does anyone btich about Jesus Christ, Superstar, the musical by andrew lloyd webber? not much, because hey, its not anti-semetic, it doesn't depict a satan-like character hangin out with the jews, and i don't think it has a jew smacking jesus in the face.

again, this movie is not according to the mainstream interpretation of the bible, just a fringe extremist group that ignores the decisions of the Vatican, and that mel gibson and his father subscribe to.

by the way, gibson's father has publicly denied that the holocaust occurred.

Re: The Passion of Jesus Christ
 

Who says that the Vatican has authority? I mean.... they're as hypocrite as I dunno what... :unsure:

Re: The Passion of Jesus Christ
 

Koopa, you've condemned this movie before even seeing it. All accounts by those that have SEEN it, say that it is not anti-semetic in the least. Lets see how it turns out before flipping out.

Re: The Passion of Jesus Christ
 

You say that The Passion of the Christ doesn't depict what actually happens in the Bible, but I would have to say it is a lot closer to reality than something like Jesus Christ, Superstar with Jesus breaking into Broadway singing every 10 minutes. Face the reality, Jesus was very controversial and near the end of his life, he was not the most liked person around.

You say all these things in the movie symbolize anti-semetic attitudes from Mel Gibson, yet you have not seen the movie, and you have completely ignored sources that say the movie does not have anti-semetic messages. You are believing your bias sources without looking at the other side of the fence. I have to wait and see and make my own opinion as to whether it was overly negative towards Jews or not. I suggest you do the same.

BTW- as Canyarion said, The Vatican doesn't decide what is allowed in movies, so that point is meaningless. And going back to biblical accuracy, it was the Romans who arrested Jesus and put him to trial, but it was the Jews who condemned him to die on the cross. In fact, Pilate tried to get him off free, but the people chose a filthy murderer over Jesus.

Re: The Passion of Jesus Christ
 

gosh... if the bible wasn't a hoax, I'd actually care if this movie was accurately made or not.

=)

Re: The Passion of Jesus Christ
 

You should have interest whether you believe in it or not. Christianity is a major force in the world, larger than the United States or any other nation. Understanding it better will help in understanding the world better.

Re: The Passion of Jesus Christ
 

I think it's a statement true of any and all religions.

In regards to a hollywood film made by Mel Gibson....eh... I'll pass, lol

Re: The Passion of Jesus Christ
 

false. as i said before, ADL representatives saw it and condemned it as being anti-semetic, saying its depictions of jews were,"painful to watch". In fact, most of the controversy comes from people who saw it. Seeing as its impossible for ME to see it, i'll base my conclusions on what others who HAVE seen it have said. If, when it comes out, more people say its fine, then i'll check it out and judge it for myself.

bottom line: based on Gibson's beliefs and the beliefs of his father, plus the information gathered by the ADL, and from what i have heard personally, i'm making the assumption that it is a biased, untrue, ultra extremist view of events that was abandoned by the Church years ago.

Re: The Passion of Jesus Christ
 

I agree... plus... MEL GIBSON??? C'mon... Mr.Lethal Weapon needs to pack it up and get out of the religious movie genre

Re: The Passion of Jesus Christ
 

Oh, I'm sorry... every but the ADL said its not anti-semetic. My bad :rolleyes:

Re: The Passion of Jesus Christ
 

This thread is making me want to see the movie less and less... which is pretty odd since I had no desired to see it in the first place. =\ Besides, don't you all know that movies are rarely (if ever) as good as the book?

Re: The Passion of Jesus Christ
 

Yeah, what he said.

Read the Bible!!

Re: The Passion of Jesus Christ
 

pffffff.... ha ha ha....that was funny :)

but forrest gump was was better as a movie than as a book....

Re: The Passion of Jesus Christ
 

...hmpf... I'll give you that one...

Re: The Passion of Jesus Christ
 

I don't see a prob there, Judas betrayed Jesus.

Well again I don't see the problem there, the Jews did want to kill Jesus but it's the Roman soldiers that actually carried out the execution


Well I wouldn't really say Mel Gibson is blaming anyone (atleast I would hope not) but no one can deny that the Jews played a major part Jesus's death, this is a fact.

Well again I don't have a problem with this either, I don't know if you ever read the new testament, you'd would realise that the leaders of the religion laws and pratice were very ungodly, and if your not of God then obviously............

I don't know if you read your Bible or not but read the first 5 books in the new testament and then make your own judgement based on what you read and let that be the determinant of if you watch the movie or not.

Re: The Passion of Jesus Christ
 

+rep. :D

Re: The Passion of Jesus Christ
 

yes..the problem is that gibson is carrying this guilt to the jewish people


according to one of the gospels. as far as i know, the rest of the jews thought he was just some new-agey teacher. but admittedly i haven't studied the story as much as i should have.



i think showing the jews spitting on jesus, havin the jews throwing stuff at jesus, and having a jew smack jesus gives a pretty clear intention of where mr. gibson intends to place the blame


from what i've heard, apparently this "guy" isnt a jew...
the only thing i know about "ungodly" practices is alot of stuff about sacrifices. i think often a calf's blood would be sprinkled on worshippers, and wierd stuff like that.

on a cool side note...on Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement, the High Cohen (preist) would enter the Holy of Holies where the tablet with the ten commandents were contained in the Temple before it was destroyed...and he would pronounce the true name of god, whatever that may be...

a story i heard is that the lesser preists would tie a rope around the high priest's ankle, so that, if god struck him down in the holy of holies, they wouldn't have to go in there to get him out, they'd just pull the rope:D


unfortunaltely, i have not read teh new testament, although i've read and studied a lot of the tanach.

again. i will repeat for those that haven't understood this yet. i haven't seen the movie. i am basin my judgements on reports made by an organization made to combat racism, my own personal knowledge, and knowledge that i've read from various sources. judging from this, i can safely bet that this will be an unfair, extremist view of the events leading up to jesus' death. if they weren't, i'm relatively sure that they would be the mainstream views of the Church. however, they are NOT the views of the church. i think the vatican decided to abandon this biased view of jesus' death for a reason

your mean-spirited sarcasm is unnecessary

here's a quick counterpoint
http://www.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/Movi...ion/index.html

http://www.ncsj.org/AuxPages/061303J..._Passion.shtml


we could sit here and post links about who says what all day, thats not the point.

don't get me wrong, i dont think gibson is being malicious, and i admire his faith...however, regardless of whether i agree or disagree with a belief, im afraid this movie could inflame the antisemitic minority.

Re: The Passion of Jesus Christ
 

I figure I'll weigh in on this topic... I skimmed over the last page of the discussion and this is what I made of it...

Jew = Booo to this movie!
Other people = Lighten up...

So let me ask this question:
How many NON-jews do you have in YOUR cabinet, Koopa?

I'd rather just be all sarcastic and stuff than get involved in another religious debate...

Re: The Passion of Jesus Christ
 

Groups that are trying to protect against racism and stuff like that are usually over-sensitive and some actually become prejudiced toward their race (as in, favorably; like this black guys was joking and said some racist remark [toward whites] and another white guy, joking along, said a racist joke [toward blacks]; white guy was sued; black guy went scotch free).

Anyway, the people against anti-Semitism are overly sensitive and probably exaggerating tons of stuff. It says in the CNN article, only one guy from ADL has actually seen the movie. And there have been several Jewish and Jewish supporters who say the movie is great (also in the CNN article).

Although you may not believe Gibson is being malicious or purposefully slaming Jews, you are condemning the movie before you've seen. See it before you start calling it anti-semitic. If you refuse to see it, don't bash it. It may very well be anti-semitic, but you have no right to call it that if you haven't seen it.

You say you're basing your opinion off of sources you've read, but you obviously haven't read enough. There are plenty of people who say it isn't anti-semitic, probably even more than what you can find considering that controversy sells more papers than not.

Listen to both sides of the argument. Don't base your opinion by just listening or paying attention to one side. Most of all: see the movie.


*shrugs and walks away*

Re: The Passion of Jesus Christ
 

for the third and final time...i am basing my opinion on the information available to me seeing as IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR ME TO WATCH THE MOVIE YET. if i hear it is a good movie from reviewers when it is released in theaters, i guess i'll go see it.

Re: The Passion of Jesus Christ
 

Koopa, Jesus was looked upon as a criminal, that is why he was put to death. Prisoners were treated very, very poorly in those times, and it was common to "disrespect" them by abusing them. So, the Jews spat on him, who cares? It was what everybody was doing then.

Re: The Passion of Jesus Christ
 

JHWH.
'Jehova' or 'Jahweh'.
:)

Re: The Passion of Jesus Christ
 

I also believe that a common practice of putting a criminal to death was a public stoning.

Listen, I fear that all people are doing is getting riled up over nothing. The PUBLIC condemned Christ, according to the bible, and the PUBLIC happened to be jewish as there were only 12 Christians in the whole world at that time.

My feeling is that if you are going to get upset over this
movie, and the movie follows the Bible, then you should also get upset over the Bible. Its far easier to condemn a movie rather than a book of faith, now isn't it?