Um... I saw more piracy on Psx than any console in my life.. and that didn't exactly hurt the userbase did it? MS wants user right now, not money.

I think because of the piracy, PSX's userbase increaed, because they could get free games.

Re: Nintendo--VS--Microsoft
 

Free games? Hell no. Blank CDs cost about a buck back then.

;)

Re: Nintendo--VS--Microsoft
 

You really are getting everything backwards in this debate. Console sales hurt Microsoft, software sales help Microsoft. The more people who buy Xboxes, the more money Microsoft will lose. Now if those people don't buy games, Microsoft will never make back the cost. So if 20 million people go out and buy Xbox to pirate it, Microsoft would lose about 2 billion.

Software sales have always been a much bigger source of profit than hardware sales. That's why it's not uncommon for a company to release a gaming console at a loss, because they can rely on software sales to make up the difference, and bring in additional profits. For a company who is still taking a loss on hardware, piracy means big losses. For a company making money on hardware sales, piracy still means less profits, because game sales bring in a lot more than hardware sales.

Re: Nintendo--VS--Microsoft
 

Userbase means jack and sh** if the said users do not purchase games for it.

Do you honestly think that those users pirating Xbox games are going to be the sort of the loyal, staple pool with which MS could risk its next venture (the same sort of venture with which MS is gambling right now with the Xbox; given the losses)?

The argument that MS is losing money on the Xbox to build userbase only holds water if the users will remain loyal for future consoles. Loyalty is not the paramount characteristic for userbase springing from piracy; they want whatever's easy to pirate for - the flavor of the month, a la Dreamcast.

And let's suppose that the piracy userbase do remain loyal and purchase the next console. What then? Do you think they will, out of their respect for the company, begin to actually purchase the games? I think we all know the answer to that question.

Really, I don't think you're understanding the magnitude with which piracy is being undertaken for the Xbox. The piracy with which you refer to - bootleg games from southease Asia - didn't even begin in large prevalence until the end period of PS. By then, PS already had its loyal users and whatever piracy hardware sales accrued were insignificant.

The means for Xbox pirating available via the usenet nowdays is simply astonishing. You do not have to worry about badly-ripped games (given that it is so simple to encode Xbox games into dvd images), nor do you have to PAY for the bootlegged games; it's all free, clean and most of all, convenient.

Case in point, my friend just shot me an IM saying that he d/led Soul Calibur 2 (the Japanese version). In no time, he was playing it through an aftermarket HDD he purchased specifically for pirating. He can erase it to make room for other games, or keep playing it at his will and leisure. No blank dvd's gone to waste, no bootlegged copies to pay for. What's all this cost you say? $60 mod chip and a $80, 100gig HDD.

This sort of pirating is idiosyncratic to the Xbox due to its computer-like setup; a feature which I foresaw would bring a dilemma of calamitous proportions.

Re: Nintendo--VS--Microsoft
 

Umm... why can't they just do like Sony? Make it harder to pirate next time? A hardcore Halo fan who pirated it this gen, and can't pirate it next gen, will buy it next gen. Right? I know people who didn't buy jack in the Psx generation, many people, but once Ps2 came out and they could no longer pirate, did they just crawl in a hole and quit on Sony? Nope. If anything, all the pirating just turned into an ad for the games they could miss out on Ps2.

-EDIT-

Also, pirating on Xbox right now is far from popular... and much harder and more expensive to do... and if MS finds out who started it (hey, they did it before), it could be far more costlier than the whole pirating game on Psx.

Re: Nintendo--VS--Microsoft
 

Exactly my point. It seems you have acquiesced that piracy is bad regardless of userbase considerations. Anti-piracy will have to be a facet to be discussed with MS in the next generation. My point in arguing this is that this bad move (which allowed easy pirating) worked against MS and forced them to be tighter w/ their options in their next considerations (since it will reduce their profit margin drastically; whether the primary goal was to build userbase or not). I don't think anyone can make a point in saying that MS expected to totally lose money this generation to make money next generation. If that were the case, why not give Xbox's away?

Halo is just a game. To pirates, anything that is able to be bootlegged has a playtime value. In their mindset, anything that is free is worth trying out compared to something that may be good, but comes with a $50 price tag. Just as your anecdote about people who amateurly bootlegged ps games, I know of too many stories about people who do nothing but buy systems and pirate. This builds userbase how?

And how many exclusive aa titles does Xbox have to warrant this sort of loyalty? Okay, there's Halo, I guess....and like, some other stuff. Let's say that another system comes out w/ about the same number of AA titles or more, you think those people who pirated Xbox games are gonna stick around w/ Xbox2 b/c they saw some good titles w/ Xbox but see a hell of a lot more in PS3 or some other system?

I've said it many many times: DC pirating was one of the reasons it went downhill - one of the primary reasons. You think those people who bought a DC, pirated the hell out of it, are all migrating to Sega games now b/c they saw quality in Sega? Is that why Sega's doing so well now?

So I guess you're saying pirating isn't much of a problem if not a blessing in disguise given MS's situation. I guess somehow you could make that argument. But I'm not buying it. Profit is profit. Profit allows more amibitous ventures. Even if you're saying potential userbase built w/ pirates may allow eventual migration, I don't see how a cogent businesses would allow a marginalizing subsidiary to develop bigger by dumping more and more funds into it - even if it's clear that the subsidiary lost money and lost it big. Sure, you can make an argument about making an initial impact. But through the lifetime of Xbox (I dunno, say, 4-5 fiscal years?), if profits keep marginalizing due to piracy and hardware losses, MS could very well rethink their strategy in the console market.

Well, according to your argument, if it's far from popular, MS is losing out on potential userbase, right? heh, j/k.

And this is right after how I explained how easy and cheap it is to pirate? Back in the days of PS pirating, you had to either buy bootlegged games or buy a cd burner (which was costly back then) and the modchip - the modchip required soldering.

There are myriad of easy-to-install modchips for Xbox that requires no soldering. Most of them cost anywhere around the $60 mark. You can then either buy a dvd burner (which most hardcore modders don't recommend), or buy a large HDD to replace internal one in the Xbox. All of this is done w/o any soldering, is easy as replacing a computer part (since Xbox parts are essentially computer parts) and most of all, only requires $60 for the modchip and about $80 for a respectable HDD - which equals to buying about 3 Xbox games, if that.

Getting the games themselves? Hard? hahahahaha, thanks for a good laugh. If you know how to use newsgroups, which every movie, software and porn bootleggers in this country know how to use, you can d/l all of the games absolutely free of charge. Just use your newsreader and search around for Xbox dvd images.

Don't wanna go through the trouble of using newsgroups? Then get a generic dvd-ripping program, goto your local blockbuster, rent an Xbox game, then write it into a dvd image. Transfer it to the Xbox via a network cable (how much does this cost? $5?), voila, done. Btw, doesn't it sound like the computer-like setup of Xbox is responsible for this?

I suggest you browse some boards about Xbox modding, and then make a statement about its difficulty. I don't know where you're getting this hard and expensive and far from popular tirade from, but I think it's pretty far from the truth.

MS knows there's piracy going around with Xbox. Hell, they know that there's piracy going around w/ all of their software! But how can they regulate newgroups? You think b/c the music industry knows about ripping mp3's that they can do a lot to stop it? Give me a break.

Which bring me back to my original point: if MS wants to stop piracy, it has to be done through hardware. It's simply too late to fix Xbox to stop this. Therefore, it has to happen in the next generation.

Re: Nintendo--VS--Microsoft
 

LOL, that's a good point... and that's basically what they are doing :D

Not giving games away is for the sake of the developers... I mean, developers still gotta make money. If pirating was such a problem, more developers would be dropping Xbox than GCN... right? Well, I see way more games being slashed for GCN than any system.

Quantity doesn't matter, it's all about the cult classics. I mean, people can run, but if you are hardcore enough you will stick around. Now, if Ps3 can be pirated... then hell yeah I can imagine them jumping ship easilly. But if they are pirating now and most of the games they like are going to be on Xbox or Xbox exclusive (assuming no system can be pirated at this time), then eh... they know what to buy.

haha good therory... but Sega only dropped GCN (sports wise), the pirate free system... and they are supporting Xbox strongest of all.. plus Sega is extremely stupid with thier marketing.... seems that all three work together ;)

Personally, I think pirating is a terrible thing... but at the same time the most pirated system off all time was the best selling, and is currently still running things with minimal to no piracy.

I never gonna sit here and try to say it's a good thing... but it may not be a factor that pushes anything out of the console race.it was a much worse problem for Psx, and they fought through it.

But at the same time, there is allways a success story for every mistake, and there is always a very bad crash and burn story for every mistake.

I mean, Hard development used to be the thing that kills... N64 still sold 50 Million, and so will Ps2... and the easy development DC, Xbox, and GCN will be lucky to hit 30 million.

Who's to say if nything is going to kill anything. Pirating (may have) killed DC (even though I think it's the lack of popular quality games), pirating barely hurt Sony.. that falls under somthing else I said:

"The reason I see Nintendo dying before Microsoft is because Nintendo is a independent game company, and like Sega, they can't exactly afford to have any huge mistakes. MS could live through some giant mistakes in the future, and the userbase would be thier incentive to keep going... "

also applies to my above quote, like Sony they can deal with these problems... if it happens to Sega or Nintendo well :unsure:

As for your ease of pirating stuff, you are assuming the person has a DVD player or recorder, or even a computer alltogether. I mean, getting new pirated games $10 a pop, computer free, DVD player free, and without worry Sony making some huge investigation where they will sue thier pants off... and pay a person for turning you in.

I dunno, it just seemed a lot more convienient... I guess not enough people around here sell/use pirated games for me to really compare. But I know some cut throat guys who would pirate anything they can get thier hands on.

Re: Nintendo--VS--Microsoft
 

TheGame, ever wonder why everyone is going against you in this thread, and no one is agreeing with you? Think about it.

Re: Nintendo--VS--Microsoft
 

One xbox owner fights every battle Bond and I are tired.

Everyone who now owns an xbox and lovingly invests in it (ie people not like gekko who don't own the system for only one developer) is going to buy xbox 2 because we love the box. Give xbox 2 90% of xbox's user base and continue on the same hardware sales with slightly faster software sales next gen and xbox is fine.

On the cube side, there are several long time nintendo owners who are not satisfied with the cube. People such as myself.

Who owns the cube: Nintendo long timers, people like me. Either they've always follwed nintendo, or they've owned every system, chances are, if you own a cube, you've got some other piece of nintendo hardware in your home.

People who own the cube: Nintendo mainstays
Nintendo mainstays: Getting pissed off by nintendo

Xbox is the first microsoft console, and people are happy with it.

If nintendo is losing money on the gamecube, but making money overall on gba, why are they more likely to stay in the game than MS?

MS losing money on xbox, making money overall because they're MS.

MS doesn't need to worry about profits, they will just continue to wittle the competors away.

Nintendo = On the way out
Xbox = On the way up

Re: Nintendo--VS--Microsoft
 

I gotta pull a old school Bond move here...

Everyone? You can't speak for anyone but yourself.

Which means nothing. There are several PS2 owners who are not satisfied. There are several Xbox owners who are not satisfied.

Chances are? Did you survey Gamecube owners to come up with that statistic? Again, you do not speak for the Nintendo userbase.

People are happy with Gamecube and PS2 as well. What's your point?

Which they are not.

Which they are.

It's common sense. A company making profit on a product is more likely to continue that product than a company who is losing large amounts of money on the product. Microsoft is the only company who would do better, not worse, by dropping their product. That makes them more likely.

Microsoft as a company is making money, but Microsoft is budgeting money to a lot more than Xbox. Windows is Microsoft's best product, Xbox is Microsoft's worst. You don't make cuts from other departments to keep your worst selling product on the market.

Every company has to worry about profits.

I'm sure you have nothing but your radical opinion to support these claims, so I won't ask.

Re: Nintendo--VS--Microsoft
 

LoL some people on here are starting to post some crap now! Sorry null but all we have to go on for the next generation is how well every one does this time around and sorry to say but Nintendo quite plane and simply is the loser (So far that is). Microsoft is in no way a winner mind you it has felled to sale as many units as they wanted but it has still out sold the longest running competitor which has got to tell you some thing!!!!! You just need to look at Sony’s PSX that did not make any money for it’s first 3 years yet by the end of it’s generation it was the only part of Sony to make a profit. I under stand that any thing can happen in the next generation of consoles!


Hell if Sony’s next console is as big a bitch to program as the PS2 it could very well fail as both the new Microsoft and Nintendo consoles will be launched around the same time (not giving them time to catch up on the games). People could drop the next Nintendo cuss it may not have a DVD player, hard drive and TV recorder like the rest. Or Microsoft my not sale F*** all cuss the console does not have the power to keep up with the other two.

But that is all speculation and all we have to go on is Microsoft is selling more consoles then Nintendo. Microsoft seems pretty happy with the Xbox’s performance so far which some thing Nintendo does not feel for the Gamecube.





Remember Nintendo has done nothing to boost its position this generation instead losing ground to yet another new comer! Maybe a company like Nintendo has place in the console hardware market any more (Sega did not). As every one keeps saying the industry is growing up it takes more money to make the money in this game now a days. Nintendo is seeing its market share full year on year now and what with Sony’s new hand held console just round the corner its biggest money maker could be under just a little heat.

Re: Nintendo--VS--Microsoft
 

bro im not the one arguing. why direct that at me?

Re: Nintendo--VS--Microsoft
 

He likes you :eek: :p

Re: Nintendo--VS--Microsoft
 

awww. well dont tell him. but i think hes swell :)

Re: Nintendo--VS--Microsoft
 

well i love you too!!!!! LoL and why pick your name above any ones well it's just ease to spell :D