Hmm... exactly one year ago... and Bush has started his campaign. I believe that september 11 was really good for Bush' popularity.. :(

You're missing one part to what I said. The Koreans began firing at the Americans, they returned fire. When you're fighting a war, you're trying to keep yourself, and the man next to you alive. When this group of "civilians" has some people take out guns and shoot at you, you're not going to try to negotiate with them, you'll shoot back. The group of refugees were also not supposed to be at No Gun Ri, so if troops saw people start opening fire, they won't sit back and play nice. This is war, we're not playing cops-and-robbers in the backyard.

I don't care if you're Korean or Canadian, the fact remains you don't know exactly what happened at No Gun Ri, so you shouldn't be passing judgement that America massacred a bunch of civilians. I don't care if you're Korean or not, you're now living in a land where people are innocent until proven guilty, and these people haven't be proven guilty. Find a better example.

I don't know if you could substantiate your claim as to whether the Koreans began firing at the American soldiers first (if you cannot prove this, you are guilty of the same thing you are accusing me of). I don't know exactly where you are getting your source of information (possibly http://www.army.mil/nogunri/, which I found to be absurdly euphemistic). But I am basing my judgements of the incident on the things I have heard from people who have had contact with the survivors of the incident. I hardly think that your source of information is more accurate than the testimonials of primary evidence.

Here's another point: some soldiers - new to the war thing or whatever - were given orders to stop the refugees from passing through the area. They assumed this to mean they could use firearms - not with an intent to kill, but to war - to warn the refugees from passing through. There is not doubt that some of thse shots, in fact, killed civilians. In which case, it would be a wrongdoing.

In any case, I don't think you are arguing my main point: every country has its shady history. If you're not arguing this point and just pointing out my alleged fault in logic in providing an example to that point, that's fine. But to me, that seems trivial compared to understanding the big picture of things.

I'm not saying the Koreans did fire first. I'm just giving you the other side of the story. And who's to say that they didn't fire warning shots first, but when the refugee wouldn't stop, they had to use deadly force. There's a lot of stuff you don't know, which is why you shouldn't starting blaming people until you're acquainted with the full facts, which you're not, and never will be.

I don't understand, if this statement is true - that we can never know the full facts, and since we can't know the full facts, we can't judge anything, shouldn't you judge me in saying that I've made a false conclusion?

I always knew Bush was a monkey.....
 

I wonder if you fully understand the irony of your statement.

Re: I always knew Bush was a monkey.....
 

That is just simply not funny.... at all.

You don't know what humour is.

Not really... that happens a lot with me...

I agree... and when he does find something funny, he simple smiles and says "That was quite amusing."

... :sneaky:

I guess I do have to give the guy credit for something; His truck kicks ass!
 

Oh, we won't mess with Texas, Dubbya. We won't do a thing.......

Re: I guess I do have to give the guy credit for something; His truck kicks ass!
 

Now that was truly not funny...

It isn't supposed to be funny. I just think that Bush has a cool truck.

Re: I guess I do have to give the guy credit for something; His truck kicks ass!
 

What a ****ty photoshop job.

:rofl: Oh those were some good ones. :D

You know what Angrist. I dare you to imagine a world without the United States. I dare you to imagine without all of our medical aid, military aid, and others. Countries would die out, others would be defenseless. I wouldn't make fun of Bush, because without his country.... well, you know.

The country is owned by Bush? 'Mazing...

If I'da known that earlier I would have moved...

;)

Lol. If America didn't exist, Britain would take its place.

Britain would've been crushed during WWII. Don't kid yourself.

This is going to be a long thread... *cough*


;)

I hate it when people try to talk about what they think are "serious issues". I'm sorry, but Gametavern seems to be a pretty crappy place politically. Maybe I should post some more funny pictures.....

Oh that's so pathetic! :rolleyes: :rofl: What if the United States didn't exist... Sure, things would be different and nobody knows what it would be like.

But what has that to do with us not liking Bush??

And FreakyBob, post some more. :D

Hmm..... Do you really think so?

If there was no country of America, there would most likely be one big Canada. So, Canada would have provided even more help to the Allies, and this the Axis most likely would have been eliminated.


However... I don't think that this is necesary to talk about. I mean, there is an America, and if there wasn't, then things would be totally different, but not anything that we could predict.

No worse than you.

EDIT: Where did Bob's last post go? Now it seems like I'm responding to Joeiss.

EDIT: Underneath me now I guess.

Here are a few great Bush quotes. I think it's a little sad that they are all real.
 

“The vast majority of our imports come from outside the country.”

“If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure.”

“Republicans understand the importance of bondage between a mother and child.”

“Mars is essentially in the same orbit...Mars is somewhat the same distance from the Sun, which is very important. We have seen pictures where there are canals, we believe, and water. If there is water, that means there is oxygen. If there is oxygen, that means we can breathe.”

“The Holocaust was an obscene period in our nation's history. I mean in this century's history. But we all lived in this century. I didn't live in this century.”

“I believe we are on an irreversible trend toward more freedom and democracy - but that could change.”

“One word sums up probably the responsibility of any Governor, and that one word is 'to be prepared'.”

“Verbosity leads to unclear, inarticulate things.”

“I have made good judgments in the past. I have made good judgments in the future.”

“The future will be better tomorrow.”

“We're going to have the best educated American people in the world.”

“People that are really very weird can get into insensitive positions and have a tremendous impact on history.”

“I stand by all the misstatements that I've made.”

“We have a firm commitment to NATO, we are a part of NATO. We have a firm commitment to Europe. We are a part of Europe.”

“Public speaking is very easy.”

“I am not part of the problem. I am a Republican”

“A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls.”

“When I have been asked who caused the riots and the killing in LA, my answer has been direct & simple:
Who is to blame for the riots? The rioters are to blame.
Who is to blame for the killings? The killers are to blame.”

“Illegitimacy is something we should talk about in terms of not having it.”

“We are ready for any unforeseen event that may or may not occur.”

“For NASA, space is still a high priority.”

“Quite frankly, teachers are the only profession that teach our children.”

“The American people would not want to know of any misquotes that George Bush may or may not make.”

“We're all capable of mistakes, but I do not care to enlighten you on the mistakes we may or may not have made.”

“It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it.”

“It's time for the human race to enter the solar system.”


Jesus, is this guy stupid or what?


Oh, and Angrist, here's another picture. I never knew Bush was such a master of disguise.....

And what is a serious issue in your world? Putting stickers on pickup trucks? I think we have found the problem. GT is made up of Canadians, Brits, Aussies, and a bunch of Americans who don't care about politics or believe everything their teacher tells them. Doesn't make for a good show. That's why Mr. Bob-I've-only-been-here-for-2-months, most things involving politics are more of a why Canada sucks and why British people add too many u's to their words, and most every polticial discussion happened long defore your time.

Whatever, dude. I'm still cooler than you. I've gotta find some more funny pictures.

Uh huh. You're 13. You're like the kids on SOCOM I play with who use names like "SHIZNIT" and then have a squeaky voice still. Generally speaking, you know very very little about politics, and your serious issues in the world involve legalizing drug use and lowering the legal drinking age. You have yet to prove me wrong.

Continue with pictures, cause your views are politics are likely not going to be welcome.

Angrist, I truly feel sorry for you, I really do. Although I hope when you are older you will understand what the world is like, obviously right now you have completely no idea.

Why don't you post some 'idiotic' pictures of your leader, hm? I won't find them funny, but maybe you and Bob will.

I think the point is that they have no view of politics gekko.

I think BLueFire helped put things in perspective by saying "This is going to be a long thread... *cough*"

For some reason, political threads always get a ton of post and traditionally are filled with a ton of irony. I say we stop this right now. We're just having the same stupid discussions over and over again.

By the way, Bond, that's actually a pretty good idea. Those pictures would kick ass. :burger:

Hey I can imagine a world without the US. Here goes:

1) All of Europe and Russia under the control of Nazi Germany. Britain was on the brink of collapse when the US stepped in a with help of allies, mainly in the way of intelligence and espionage, destroyed the then "invincible" German military.

2) All of North America under Japanese Rule. The only thing that stopped them was the Pacific Fleet. The number of American soldiers that died while pushing the Japanese back is ungodly. By the way, this also saved China's ass by doing this.

3) The Total Annihilation of Chechloslovakian Muslims. While this wasa "UN" endeavor, the majority of the troops involved were American and the UN didn't sticks its nose in until the US gave its support. They just sat there, miles away wondering what the Americans were going to do about this.

4) Millions or Possibly Billions Dead of Starvation. The US gives million of dollars and tons of surplus food and grain to Third World Nations every year, helping to save lives.

5) No Cars (Henry Ford)

6) No Planes (Wright Brothers)

7) No TVs (Invented by an American)

8) No Telephones (Alexander Graham Bell)

9) No Lightbulbs (Thomas Edison)

10) No Electricity (Ben Franklin)

11) No Video Games (Pong was invented by an American)

12) NO FREEDOM

When hearing how evil the US is from biased "teachers" and the liberal media, I have just one word of advice. DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE UNTIL YOU GET THE FACTS.

When the US initially began its fight against terorism, every country was behind us. Now one year later they seem to have misplaced their balls. Saddam Hussein is not just a threat to the United States, but every civilized nation. People seem to think that he was a very week commander, just the opposite was true.
Saddam Hussein had the largest standing army in the world, armed the weapons from the US Military. To think that he was not a danger is ignorant. The reason why the US Military dispatched him so easily was because Saddam believed that the US M1 Tanks could not cross the desert and entrenched all of his artillery fixed towards Saudi Arabia. He was wrong, and his misguided troops paid for his folly.

Estimates after the Gulf War were that it would take him 10 years to rebuild his army to its former strength. More than that amount of time has passed. He has simply refused to comply with UN regulations on weapons inspections, and the UN being the pussies that they are have done nothing about it. It is nearly fact that he is developing both nuclear and biological weapons and harboring and supporting terrorism against the US, and the UN being the pussies that they are have done nothing about it. The UN seems to have this misguided feeling that if they just ignore Saddam he will dissappear. WAKE UP! Those that forget the past are doomed to repeat it. This is a man that tested chemical weapons on his own people. This is a man that enjoyed watching tapes of his prisoners being tortured to death and was even sexually aroused by it acording to his former mistress. This is a man that attempted to assissinate HIS OWN SON AND FELT BAD BECAUSE HE ONLY CRIPPLED HIM.

And you think this man can be REASONED WITH? You think this man wants PEACE? This man is a lunatic, and a lunatic in power of a country with nearly limitless wealth is too dangerous to live.

President Bush said what HAD to be said. If the UN was not going to do anything to prevent future disasters and terrorism, WE WILL. The US will not sit back and become willing targets as many of our so called allies have. If this means the destruction and temporary occupation of hostile countries, so be it. We have given everyone fair warning that if they harbor or support terrorism, they will be dealt with. Squirrels should not poke wounded bears while they are trying to heal, so Iraq needs to comply with ALL stipulations of their surrender NOW.

Make no mistake, we want the UN to back our actions, but we by no means need them to do what will be done.

If not, well, may God have mercy on their souls.

^^^ Glad to know there's still some intelligence at this site. ;)

That's the bottom line Strangler. That is the bottom line.

Ahhhhh....now I see. I need to watch the news more.

Anyway, thanks Strangler for that very informative post.

I'm sorry if I was a little harsh, but when I hear Canadians, Europeans and even uneducated/brainwashed Americans talking about things that they obviously know nothing about, it pisses me off. The reason why the UN is against the US attacking Iraq has nothing to do with Peace in the Middle East, and everything to do with morally ambiguous trade agreements.

Essentially, much of the UN has been bought off by a genocidal maniac through lucrative, over compensated trade agreements with Iraq. The UN is worried about MONEY and OIL, not peace and human life. They don't care because its not their lives on the line, ITS OURS. They prefer to make a profit and keep oil prices down, even if its at the cost of Amarican lives. That is disgusting.

I believe the US should leave the UN, which is basically a impotent puppet organization without US support, and has only served to completely F**K things up in the past. After all, what has friggin France done for us lately, besides never letting us fly over their airspace? We defend the free world, and are then treated like uncivilized, militaristic barbarians for doing so.

The UN only has as much power as people perceive it to have, and without the US that perception will be sad. Thats why if the US threatens to leave the UN, the UN will have to back the war on terror.

Re: Here are a few great Bush quotes. I think it's a little sad that they are all real.
 

Oh that was great! :D

Man, you are all such patriots... :rolleyes:

Wow, way to completely ignore anything I said and just continue to ramble on incoherently.

You're from Holland, you wouldn't have any idea what being Patriotic is. You have never been put in the position to have to save the western world nor would you want it. Your country is the size of New Jersey and you have about as much political influence as the steaming load I left in the bathroom this morning.

You scoff at what we say because you have no idea what its like to have people hate you BECAUSE you are the example of freedom throughout the world. To be a traget just because you are the most powerful nation in the world. To be a target because the leaders of oil-rich countries have convinced their starving, third world people that their problems come from a country half way around the world, and not the greedy uncaring leaders themselves who only care about lining their pockets.

When the US attcked the Taliban, did ANY Arab nation offer food or money to help their Middle Eastern brothers rebuild? No, they sat on their hands and wondered what the US was going to do about this, just like everyone else. They sat on billions of dollars and did nothing.

So instead of rebutting my statements with redicculous quotes taken out of context that have NOTHING to do with the reality of the situation, how about you actually think for a second about what I said and form a valid opinion. I think if you do, you'll find you'll have either nothing to say, or you will agree with me.

Strangler, I think you've moved beyond Patriotism. Patriotism is about being proud and supportive of your country.

You on the other hand are saying that your country is the only right one. That my friend, is being a fanatic.

I like America and am happy to live in America...I just don't like George Bush. He has the personality of a can of beans and the intellect of Forrest Gump (For further proof of this, just read through some of those quotes). The only reason this guy is in office is because his Daddy is a rich bastard. I hope he doesn't get elected for another term.....


EDIT: YEAH, 100 POSTS, BABY!!!

your kidding right? why does everybody assume that when someone is elected that he/she got there because of some scam or bribery. have you ever thought maybe he was elected because the American people thought he was the best man for the job? (well, he didnt have much competition :rolleyes: )