ditto!

There are tons of issues I will not even touch in this thread for many reasons, but yet me not even bother to get into that.

I won't really even touch this rumor, but with all the recent news about Rare. I expect a big announcement soon. On what I don't know, but I think it will be something important.

I just dont beleive any of it. Dosnt nintendo own rare through contract? And nintendo probably owns 50 percent in stock (Im just guessing) So how could activision overthrow NINTENDO? Especialy over a company which nintendo holds very close.

I have no clue how much Nintendo owns Rare, but they are the second share holder after the brothers. So thy have somwhere between 15 and 30 shares. THe rest is in small parts publick domain.

Now to the discussion at hand:

Nintendo makes less money from Rare's games and any other 2'nd party than from their own or 3'rd party games. The whole point of the 2'nd party is to help in hardware sales, which can only be abtained by having games. Since Nintendo can't make all the games needed to sell enough consoles to make a profit, they buy out shares in companies to become part of the board of directors and then makes a contract for exclusivity.

Because of this the 2'nd party gets great advantages compared to other developers (especially a Nintendo 2'nd party)

1. They are the first to get the hardware and development tools (and it's free)
2. First to get any upgraded tools
3. Know all the secrets in Nintendo's camp ahead of anyone
4. They are paid by Nintendo until they get a game out and the game starts to pay (many 3rd party games suck because developers need to sell the game to afford working on the next one)
5. (In Nintendo's camp) they can delay a game until it's really ready to get on the shelves without pressure from the publisher
6. They don't pay for costs of publishing, marketing distribution, etc.
7. If the games is not that great as expected, they don't have to survive on the bad sales of the game.
8. Free support from the 1st party develoment teams in crucial part of games (designers, writers, programers, engines, tools, codes)


Now a company like Rare could easily breack out as a 3rd party and do excelent. But until it is a 2nd party and the contract exists, they cannot be a 2nd & 3rd party like you sugest Justin. Nintendo is part of Board of directors, with the 2nd power in voting.

The same thing happened with Square. Remeber that Sony bought out 19% shares, becoming the second share holder. In order for Gamecube to get any games from then on, they had to branch out a different company that is owned by Square and Nintendo and nothing owned by Sony, so it couldn't have a say in it.

By this whole rant I wanted to show you Justin that Rare can't be both owned by Nintendo and work for other consoles as well.
BY what Xantar showed clearly, Activision could never take the upper hand on Nintendo if Rare would go for grabs, and Rare would better do to go on their own instead of being bought by a publisher.


So the Activision discussion can be stoped here. But I give you something else to munch on, and this rumor is the only one likely, and posible to do without giving Nintendo power to act.

The brothers that own Rare are rummored to go out on their own after the contract with Nintendo starts. They would sale the shares they own in Rare to start another company on their own that would remain independent and in which the best develoment teams in rare would join. Now that could hurt Nintendo for real.

Well, mike, you got me sold.

I still believe them being owned by Nintendo any making thirs party software is possible... hell, it has already happend. A 3rd party games is a game not owned (rights), plublished, or developed by the console manufactur.

Seeing a game from under the name "Rare" appearing on a different system doesn't seem likely to me either.

look at these interesting tidbits from IGN

http://ps2.ign.com/articles/357/357301p1.html

A Rare Situation

There is a phenomenal amount of hubbub surrounding the recent story of Rare, the most prominent and important second-party developer in Nintendo's stable. The details are far from clear, and the rumors are growing ridiculously out of proportion by the minute, but from what we can gather, there are a few details that are reliable.

First, Rare is at the end of a five-year contract with Nintendo (Gekko) and both parties are at the negotiating table, discussing what they want, and how to resign another contract. Nintendo owns a minority stake in the private company, with the Stamper Brothers owning the majority. Sources say that neither party is interested in resigning the contract (Myself), and with the phenomenal amount of change going on at Nintendo of America, there's reason to believe that the two may be parting ways. Either that, or they resign a different kind of contract, one that positions Rare as a third-party developer, or perhaps even as a publishers of its own games on various systems.

The fact is Rare could potentially make a lot more money if it did strike out on its own, reaping higher profits with multiple skus, and working with multiple publishers (Xantar/Mike). We all know the company has the ability to create unbelievably fun games, so why should they share the wealth on all systems? But the possible parting of the twain also spells trouble for Nintendo, whose harem of second-party companies is slowly dwindling (Left Field, Retro), and Rare has, pardon the pun, rarely let Nintendo down. Just look at what it did for N64 -- Blast Corps, Goldeneye 007, Diddy Kong Racing, Banjo-Kazooie, Banjo-Kazooie 2, Perfect Dark, and Conker's bad Fur Day.

It would almost be be funny seeing Rare leave. Everyone expects Rare quality games no matter what, forgetting many things.

1. Development tools will be at Activision too. Of course, come the next line of systems, they will be getting them later, and that means the quality of their games will suffer because they will begin development of beta kits.

2. Rare will have to wait to get the new technology.

3. Rare won't know all of Nintendo's secrets now. In fact, they get to wait like everyone else.

4. Rare will be forced to release games by a deadline. Nintendo delays games a lot? Look at how many are from Rare :) Rare's games are good because Nintendo funds them until they are perfect. Rare won't have that luxury, their games will be unfinished, and unpolished, and not the quality you would expect from Rare.

5. Activision will need the money. None of this million-and-a-half StarFox Adventure and Perfect Dark delays.

6. Now Activision is going to have to fork over money to try to sell a crappy game. Of course, when it sells like crap too, Activision takes most of the money, and Rare gets very little for their next game.

7. If the game sucks (and you know Rare's would for a few years), they are still going to have to pray it sells. Also, by releasing these horrible games, Rare looses it's reputation as a quality developer.

8. No more of Nintendo's help mastering the system, help with game design, and all that stuff. Of course, in the process your programmers also have to figure out Xbox and PS2, too.


Now maybe it's just me, but Rare is nothing without Nintendo. It's like A1 steak sauce, put it on some nice juicy NY Strip steak, and you got a great dinner. Eat it alone, and it's not very good (Ok, me starving, using food examples). Rare is only good because of Nintendo, they work as a team. If they leave and go with Activision, they can potentially make more money, but they are going to spend a hell of a lot more, and they won't have the luxury of making their games perfect. And once they release a few low-quality games, Rare will be no more. Once they lose their reputation, it's all over.

I'm not gonna say much, other than the fact that it's really interesting that all Nintendo fans are saying that this is impossible. Other than maybe BaB, who didn't say much.

We'll see at E3...or earlier...:)

haha.. I wouldn't doubt that this announcement will be made in late summer. Like in the middle of August.

Hell, I doubt there will be an announcement any time soon. And this is all probably one HUGE rumour that has no truth behind it.

I think that if Rare did leave it would just shake Nintendo's already unstable boat even more.

Wait until E3.

And I thought only Nintendo zealots used that phrase :D.

you should know, shouldn't you :rolleyes:

:p

:rolleyes: Not really Stu, since I do own all three (four inc. GBA) systems :D. But maybe YOU would know, hehe.

Oh, and did anyone check out the letter section at GS? Here:

The reply to the first question in the section seems to quash the rumours. I don't know. I reckon that this whole excerise could have been a trial balloon or something of that sort.

For those who don't know: a trial balloon iswhen a person or a company purposely leaks information to see the reaction of the public.

But anything goes I guess...

I don't know how they could possibly focus on more than one platform since it takes them about 20 years to get each game out, heh. BTW, I think the rumor is flase. Only wishful thinking guys would think it's true. I'm not saying it can't happen, just that it'll most likely not.

Now lets not even get into that idiot known as Shane, ok?

Also look at this:
http://www.computerandvideogames.com...y.php?id=27795

Well, it's not like they really have to focus on all 3 systems... look at every other developer. They focus on the Ps2 product first, then everything else will be ports. So it's not like they are going to be putting seperate effort into all three systems.

Also, don't forget, Activision has a huge amount of developers. This means a Nintendo group of 100 Rare developers can become 3 groups of Activision developers (just take the top 33 from each group). It won't hurt the qulity either, because a great game has a great formula, and it only takes a few developers to give out that formula (Look atTimesplitters, it has about 10 developers from the Goldeneye007 project (for N64), and look how good it's turning out.

Now isn't it wierd how a game with nintendo mascots can appear on the PS2?

Hmm.. now here is a question. Which of the 3 platforms will they actually focus on?

And what you mean every other developer?
There are a few that actually make all 3 games seperate such as Acclaim with Turok and Vexx.

And well for the rest of your post. I won't even bother to comment on it.

No. Rare will not be making Nintendo-franshise games on other consoles. If RareWare departs, they will have to create their own mascots and characters to put on Xbox and PS2. And then they can still make Nitendo-franchise games for GCN and GBA.

I didn't say that Shadow_Link. The article said that.

Er, Joeiss and Bond, if you did notice, I put a quote up (obviously from the article :rolleyes: ), I never said you said that Bond. I was just pointing out something a bit iffy in the article.

Meanwhile, the rumour trundles on, with no truth behind it......

Whether or not Shane is an idiot, he's right about this one. Let's look at what he said on The Spot.

And here is a thread from the Gaming Age forums reacting to Shane's reply and admitting that the whole rumor was started by one particular Lord Federman back in March. A few choice quotes from that thread...

It's just like I told you guys before in another thread. This was all started as a joke on a message board at Gaming Age.

Rare COULD branch out to a 3rd party, but they would not get some of the benefits mike stated in his earlier post.

I think sticking with nintendo and re-sgining a contract would be smarter.

Of coarse this information is useless, as this whole topic is just a rumor started on a board.

I don't think that you can call a 5 pages' topic useless.

K, one thing is for sure, rare would never be bought out by a multi platform company. They have been working solely with Nintendo since...forever, i am sure they wouldnt mess that up. Plus, i dont personnally think that activision has the moola to buy out Rare. If anyone bought them out it would be Nintendo.

Edit : oops, i never realised that this topic was so long, maybe i should have read the other 5 pages before posting...or maybe not.

Not forever. They once had a different name. I think it was Ultra Games or something like that.

I think Ultra was a company related to Konami... they made the NES ninja turtle games... and Metal Gear on NES... and of course, Konami made the newer games of the same series... :p

Weren't 'Snake rattl and roll' and some other Rare games also released on a Sega???

www.rareware.com

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