Re: Game Informer: DualShock 3
 

Well, don't you think they're a little late for the trigger? FPS have been around for how long now? 8-9 years... yeah something like that.

Saying that the controller evoles after the games is stupid. What do devloppers say? "Well let's make this game that needs an analog stick, put it on the market, and so as soon as the new controller comes out, people will be able to play it.

How do they even develop a game for a controller that doesn't exist? That's stupid.

Before the N64, there wasn't many 3d games. But while developping the 64, Nintendo was also developping a few games like Mario 64, so the games was made in fonction of the hardware. They knew that the 64 was going to be majorly for 3d games hence the controller.

Re: Game Informer: DualShock 3
 

Your misunderstanding the point.

Controllers change to fit the need of evolving games. But games aren't created with the intent of changing a controller. They don't sit there developing a game with the intent to have the analog control created. They created a 3d world, and of course it was playable with a d-pad, but the brand's released analog sticks to adhere to the change.

So they don't develop a game saying, "Let's create a game and hope they make an analog stick." They develop the game for their own sales and to release the game. However it's the designers job to see the need, and fill it with the analogs. So the statement, "controller design is dependent on the needs in a game to be filled." is true.

And no... PSX had the first ever 3d platform game, Jumping Flash and PSX was the first console to start developing in 3d environments. Nintendo released the N64 WITH a Joystick because they saw a need for it as 3D games were making an uprising.

So all in all, a developer doesn't develop a game with those intentions you say, Nitram. They develop the game, and it's playable from there. It's the respective brand such as Microsoft or Sony or Nintendo that will see the need for a change in the controller to adapt to these new games. So... controllers evolve around new games.

Re: Game Informer: DualShock 3
 

Its just an extra button, as i said its not needed, but maybe it'll be helpful. why would it matter when it comes? its just a normal button.

Your trying so hard to argue that your not even thinking about it anymore. Why dont you think of your little story like this.... Hey, lets make this new game Mario 64, *game gets made* well thats good an all, but it seems we could control it a lot better with something other then this D pad. *group thinks* hey, why dont we add something like a joystick!

that makes a HELL of a lot more sense then they made a controller with a joystick and tried to think of a game to use it.

Re: Game Informer: DualShock 3
 

And you can't say Sony copied Nintendo with the joystick. Because I found out that the Analog and Joystick are two different concepts.

Re: Game Informer: DualShock 3
 

Re: Game Informer: DualShock 3
 

Yeah we've had joysticks since...... the beginning? :confused:

But analog sticks is another story. :)

Re: Game Informer: DualShock 3
 

I'm pretty sure that when Nintendo planned the 64, that they knew with the power of the machine that 3d games would be standard, therefore, introduced the analog stick.



Ok then, I'll say this. Sony copied the analog stick from Nintendo.

Re: Game Informer: DualShock 3
 

3d games were around before nintendo made that controller. nintendo was creating thier hardware, they obviously knew they'd be playin 3d games. they then invented a controller to make 3d gaming eaiser.


no matter how many times you reword your argument, its still the same, the game type changed the controller. T

he analog stick was made to improve 3d gaming. 3d gaming was not made to improve the analog stick.

Re: Game Informer: DualShock 3
 

Your misunderstanding yet again.... Sony's controller using an Analog Stick which has 360 degrees of motion.

Nintendo's N64/Gamecube Joystick is an 8-way joystick with 12 points of motion.

The two sticks are entirely different so, Sony didn't copy any type of stick from Nintendo.

You can feel it in the gameplay of the two.

The Analog Stick on both Sony's and Microsoft controllers both go around 360 degrees.

The Joystick has 8 way action wiith 12 points of motion. It's not the same thing as the ANALOG.

The joystick is
1 Up,
2 Up up Right,
3Up right,
4Right,
5Down Right,
6Down Down Right,
7Down,
8Down Down Left,
9Down Left,
10Left,
11Up Left,
12Up up Left.

According to Everything2.com, The Joystick and Analog stick are totally different devices.

Joystick having 12, Analog having no points of motion but degrees, which is 360.

Re: Game Informer: DualShock 3
 

Well Sony might work like that, but Nintendo works differently. Nintendo creates a console, with a unique controller for it and that lasts for about 5 years, they don't make new controllers whitin those 5 years. It's like with revolution, they will create something new, not because there is a need for it, but to try to revolutionize how we play games. Just like they introduced the NES controller in the past.

Now is it a good way of doing things? I guess we'll see.



Are you kidding me? The N64 controller an 8-way joystick? :confused: I think you should go give it a try right now

Re: Game Informer: DualShock 3
 

8 Way with 12 Points of Motion

here is an explanation:



Instead of supplying a valid argument, I really think you're just trying too hard to make Nintendo sound good. I mean, I'm supplying evidence to my arguement from EVERYTHING2.COM explaining the difference.

and you keep coming back... "Nintendo does this and that... and NOWAY!"

This is the DualShock 3 thread... if you didn't read.

Re: Game Informer: DualShock 3
 

wow, nice diagram there buddy. I think that site is ****. It's not even the stick of the 64 that is pictured there. Just a normal arcade joystick.

Here's a real explanation on how both N64 and PS2 controllers work.

PS2: http://stuffo.howstuffworks.com/ps23.htm

N64: http://stuffo.howstuffworks.com/n643.htm

(And we're comparing old gen with current gen there ;) )

Re: Game Informer: DualShock 3
 

lol. im not ever sure what the hell your trying to say anymore. you keep wording it different and differently, i dont know what your hoping or trying to accomplish.

who said anything about making controllers half way thro? (and btw, proves that theory wrong, nintendo made 2 controllers for gamecube, witha wire, then went back and made another without) but thats totally beside the point.

point is, and this is a FACT, you can re-word it and try to weasel your way out of it as much as you like. 3d gaming came before the analog stick on controllers(gamepads)

if your trying to say nintendo phisically MADE the controller before they actually phiscally made the game, who the hell cares? your trying to side track it off into a way you can be considered in a twisted way correct.

the analog stick was made to help 3d gaming. the game infuenced the controller. not the other way around. deal with it.

Re: Game Informer: DualShock 3
 

Do you as least remember what was our original argument? I was saying that controllers should evolve with each generation of console, you were saying no.

Nintendo: 4 generations, 4 different controllers.

Sony: 2 generations, 2 different controllers.

Yes you are right, 3d gaming influenced the analog stick, but (on nintendo's side anyways) true 3d gaming experience was only available on the 64 and they knew it, thus created the controller.

Re: Game Informer: DualShock 3
 

and what was the reason for that? you said there NEEDS to be a change each gen so the games will evolve, and i said the controller evolves when the game requires them to, THAT is the argument.

of course they knew n64 was going to be thier first 3d console, what point does that show? that infact proves mine that they knew they were going to make 3d gaming and that is where the analog stick came from.

Re: Game Informer: DualShock 3
 

Nitram, I'd like to thank you for your hard work finding that site with the thorough explanation of how the Analog Joysticks for the 2 controllers work.

If you do read carefully.... it doesn't matter how they explain it from Everything2.com to Howstuffworks...... My point was reached in both sites. They are totally different in design. Using Photocell's and LED's the N64 does, and using two Potentiometers the DualShock2 does.

In essence, you just totally proved me right by providing those sites. Btw... DualShock was for PSX too, so you can also compare old gen with old gen with DualShock and N64 controller..... of course both using totally different methods of output.

You just chose to compare old gen to this gen. But DualShock, and DualShock 2 are the same controllers..... only difference is Pressure Sensitivity.

Re: Game Informer: DualShock 3
 

I just wanted to say that I took apart my N64 controller (and stick) and it's like Nitrams site shows: 2 axes.

Re: Game Informer: DualShock 3
 

The argument isn't about what the joystick uses.... the argument is that the ps2 analog joystick and the n64 analog joystick are different components and not the same.

Re: Game Informer: DualShock 3
 

everyones is. thats what it looks like inside. kyuzo was saying how they are different and operate different, one being a full 360 degrees and one reading more of certain points or certain sets of degrees, not every one.

so his reply to this argument was to show him the inside of a controller. strange, but i guess its one way to go about an argument. :p

Re: Game Informer: DualShock 3
 

Yes it matters. everything2.com was wrong. The n64 is not a 12-way joystick, it's a real analog stick.

The desings of the N64 and DS are not completely different. Only the technology that detects the movement of the X and Y axis is different, but the rest of the designs are very similar.

No I proved you wrong. You said that the n64 was not analog and it is.

Re: Game Informer: DualShock 3
 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4387045.stm

Here's another proof that Sony is not innovative. They just copy stuff.

Re: Game Informer: DualShock 3
 

this has been discussed already in it's own thread.

Re: Game Informer: DualShock 3
 

really?

I'll check it out.

Re: Game Informer: DualShock 3
 

lol. strange funny little guy.


curious tho, note tho i never said sony or anyone else was innovative or not innovative.. But if they go after Nintendo next for thier rumble, considering they went after MS, then Sony, does that mean nintendo is not innovative? cuz an example for one should be same as the example on the other. or will you just make up another excuse?

note i never said they will or even can go after nintendo, only IF.

Re: Game Informer: DualShock 3
 

To be quite honest, the only innovation was the first ever console.

Ever since then it's been improved graphics and gameplay.

I wouldn't say a respective brand is innovative at the least. However there are respective innovations worth noting.

Nintendo Touch Screen
Sony's EyeToy (more than just a webcam gimmick)
A lot of Pelican accessories.

Case and point.... Things have been innovative through out timelines upon timelines. But I would never go so far as to say one company has been innovative their whole time in the industry.