Re: A Little Perspective in Iraq
 

Jonbo showed me the site also, that movie was terrible.

Re: A Little Perspective in Iraq
 

Those civilians shouldn't be over there in the first place and they are the representatives of the biggest THEAVES in the entire world. It doesn't make the killing just, but stop trying to portray those victims as completely innocent, because they are far from it.

Re: A Little Perspective in Iraq
 

I had a thought when I woke up this morning... "innocent" people get killed every day here by people within this country. Where is the daily head count on that? How "out of the ordinary" is terrorist attacks and murders in Iraq?

Re: A Little Perspective in Iraq
 

There was a 5 minute story on the beheading on CBC last night. It sucks for his parents to have to watch their son die.

Re: A Little Perspective in Iraq
 

Are you kidding me? Did you even do any research into the story of the guy who was beheaded? He volunteered his expertise because he felt he could go over there and help rebuild Iraq after the conventional war was over. But instead of actually basing any of your opinions on facts you'd rather create your own fiction and attempt to stain the memory of these people who put their lives on the line EVERY DAY to rebuild a nation for people who are trying to KILL THEM. You sentiments and uneducated and disgust me. If you actually are even attempting to defend the people who lopped off that poor man's head in the slightest, you are a horrific human being and deserve to be drug into the street and beaten publicly. That would make you worse than the scum that spit on soldiers when they came back from Vietnam.

Ever notice that liberals always care about the humanity of everyone else exept their own American people? I find that disturbing.

You also keep saying how the US and its companies are THIEVES (not THEAVES). Please back that up with one shred of evidence of how companies brought over by the US or the US itself has stolen one ounce of oil or land from the Iraqi people. If this sounds like you've heard it before, its because you have. I ask for evidence whenever people accuse the US or its supported companies of stealing. Somehow no one can ever find it though :rolleyes:

Re: A Little Perspective in Iraq
 

U.S. steals 80% of reconstruction fund

Sounds a bit like thievery to me.

If you want other people to give sources, you better damn well use reliable sources to back up your arguments. You never provide sources for your arguments.

Re: A Little Perspective in Iraq
 

Hah. Okay, even if they did steal from Iraq, it's not any different from what they're used to. Wasn't it Saddam who used his own country's earnnings to build his army to fight an eight year war with Iran, and invade Kuwait? That also sounds a bit like thievery to me.

I do not doubt the credibility of that article, because wether it happened or not, I couldn't care less.

Suppose you should backtrack into the older topics where facts and proof was given? He has given proof many times before.

And no offense guys, but I will trust the word of The Strangler before I trust the word of a 16 year old kid. Although I'd like to see what he has to say in regards to Dylflon's post.

Re: A Little Perspective in Iraq
 

I'm 17 :p.

The problem with arguing about things like the war on Iraq is that no matter how many sources are put forth, nobody will ever change their opinion.

Most of the time I've said things they were opinion based and I stated that they were opinion based. I don't post things as facts if I don't know them for sure. But even if I post what I think or my two cents (or if anyone else does it for that matter) people persist on tearing them apart.

I'd like you to notice that I do not attempt to "destroy" The Strangler's views or opinions. I respect his right to have them regardless of whether or not I agree with them. But if I say something about it me not believing so many civilians should have died, I get attacked.

Now, in arguments about the war on Iraq, the people arguing break down into two groups:

1. People who support the war

2. People who oppose the war

Nobody can win an argument because when it comes to the war on iraq virtually any argument is opinion based.

Example: "The Iraq war is good because Saddam was a bad guy."

"No, it is bad because civilians are dying."

These aren't facts. They are opinions. When it comes to these arguments, people from group 1 completely disregard anything anybody from group 2 has to say and vise versa. It's a lot like arguing about religion.

That's why nobody can win these arguments.

When I talk about Iraq, I won't try to take your opinions and rip them to shreds. I will only offer my opinion. I won't ask for sources and I won't argue about semantics.

In these debates people will have varying opinions.You should respect them rather than attack them.

Re: A Little Perspective in Iraq
 

I agree with Dylflon.. The Strangler always asks everyone else for proof, yet he provides none. I'm not trying to get him angry here or anything, but if you look back, he has no real proof, he just rants about "what might happen" and things like that. And just because Dylflon is 17 doesnt mean he doesnt know anything.

So Crono, if the Strangler said he could fly in one of his o-so-famous rants, would you believe him? No, you wouldnt believe him, because common sense tells you not to.

You guys get all uppity over what other people have to say, Your just hypocrits. Asking for proof, yet giving very very very little. Telling everyone else they are wrong. dont you think there is a chance that the Strangler is ever wrong? Yet he has never admitted it. And the Strangler,if you are so smart, how come your not writing novels and books on Science and Math and stuff.

[Sarcasm] Man Strangler, if i was as smart as you are, i would totally tell people off all the time nomatter what they say[/end Sarcasm]

Your just supremely patriotic, and you cant stand people saying TRUTHS about the "good 'ol" U.S.A. I feel the same, i get mad when people talk bad about Canada, but if im wrong i admit it, and i also dont blow up at everyone who says something i dont agree with....and if you continue to blow up at people over the internet this easily, i suggest looking into councelling..

Re: A Little Perspective in Iraq
 

This is off-topic and not directed at anyone in particular, but when you want to say "you are", you write it as "you're" not "your." "You're a good guy." "Your face is disgusting." I've just seen it so much on this forum, it makes me cringe a bit. Not trying to be a grammar nazi, but this is one of those things that is not that difficult.

Re: A Little Perspective in Iraq
 

I admit that war is bad because it takes the lives of the innocent, but our world has been built on the blood of people.

The war in Iraq is just another direction that the world is moving into... just as every other major war to happen. Anti-war people can go on as long as they want, but countries will always want to expand their influence. It's human nature... which is why I've come to the conclusion that being anti-war is useless.

Also the U.S. protects the modern world, if not for them, millions of lives would have been lost these past decades.

But oh well...... I am just glad that I do not live in Iraq.

Re: A Little Perspective in Iraq
 

See, now talk about ignorance. They're trying to rebuild a nation that we blew the piss out of, that was in a sorry state already because United States greed put an evil man in power. I know he was an independent worker, but that makes absolutely zero difference to the Iraqi people. We've given the Iraqi's plenty of reasons to want to kill us, and even though we know exactly what pisses of Arabs most, we continue to do it because we're greedy. You were right in the other thread about Islam and the west not exactly mixing, but why do you insist on trying to change them simply because we have the military might to do so. Let them be. Our society is as backwards to them as theirs is to us.

This country can't swallow its pride ever. EVER. That's what pisses off the rest of the world the most. We knew that Saddam was evil, and we gave him WMDs anyway. Why wasn't that conservative led US government concerned with Iraq's liberation? If we would have admitted some past ****ups maybe we could have gotten a LARGE international force together and put some pressure on Saddam, then, when he still refused to back down, the rest of the world would have said "Ok, go get him, then when you're done, we'll help you pick up the pieces."

And though the majority of my comments about the old men that put this war together being war hungry hawks who just wanted to “play with their toys in the sand” were meant as tongue in cheek inflammatory, I’m beginning to wonder. Go read the article on Rumsfeld this week in Newsweek, or, better yet, look at the violence in Iraq. It’s much lower in UK controlled areas, The sections of falujia (**** the spelling, you know what I mean) that are controlled by the Brits are less hostile because the British aren’t as arrogant. They let the Iraqi’s have their space.

Hate breeds hate, and it really seems that the higher ups in the United States military have a supreme hatred and bloodlust. We built this Nintendo army and they’ve just got to use it. No one should be surprised at the pictures that have been released this week. Unless you’re drunk, or insane, there’s a certain paradigm shift that every human must undergo before they are able to intentionally kill another human, it’s a horrid thing, and these people celebrate it. That is truly disgusting.

Ever notice how conservatives always place more value on the lives of Americans and American allies. We're cared for already. "God Bless America" what a joke. If there is a God, she has already blessed America more than any other country in the entire world.

Well, since you're so worried about the United States, how about the fact that every single defense contract ever signed in the history of the United States is a ****ing joke. Forget about stealing from Iraqi's, how about stealing from Americans. $700 and some odd million over charged by Halliburton to the United States government (money which the United States will NEVER see because long time Dick Cheney bosom buddy Justice Antoine Scalia refuses to recluse himself from the case. This bull**** as well as similar bull**** has been going on for quite awhile.

I also love how Conservatives can be selectively naive. Guess what, if Democrats were bombing Iraq, they'd be stealing too, and that would be DEAD WRONG. The fact that liberals would do the same ****ing thing doesn't make it write in my book (awful pun) and it shouldn't make it right to you either, because you know goddamn well that the Americans over there are profiting through any means necessary. Sources aren't needed to prove that the US is stealing

Re: A Little Perspective in Iraq
 

I think you just answered a bunch of people's questions. If Iraqi's are trying to KILL THEM, then should they really be there?

Iraq is a mess, and will be for quite some time. How about America trains some Iraqi people to rebuild? This would take longer, but would be better for Iraqis in the long run. Wouldn't that make more sense? Oh wait, then big American companies wouldn't get the big money contracts to rebuild Iraq. Forgot about that.

Re: A Little Perspective in Iraq
 

Okay.... i know this is pointless and arrogant.....but hey Strangler, didnt you say that nobody thought like me :p

Re: A Little Perspective in Iraq
 

Dyflon, thanks for the information. I wish you would have posted the BBCNews article rather than the rather inflammatory Insider version of events, but it is money that is legitimately missing, and it should be looked into. I'm not ashamed to admit it, I might be wrong about this and if I am that is sad and needs to be corrected immediately.

As for those that claim I never cite any evidence, thats laughable. Remember the London Telegraph article I cited? Just recently, the news story on Mr. Berg having his head lopped off? I also actually watch the news from CNN to FoxNews and relay all of it. Now not everything I state has a link associated with it, but I have been posting here for several years and I believe I have developed a track record of honesty and truth. I'm not saying I can't be wrong or that there are things that I don't know, but when I state the situation surrounding the broken UN regulations by Saddam, I should hope you would KNOW this as it was all over the news when the war began.

And Stonecutter, you still attempt to justify the beheading of a US citizen in retaliation for the humiliation of Iraqi prisoners of war. In no way does that correlation make any sense AT ALL. If the US soldiers had raped and then shot the Iraqi prisoners, then I could see where you're coming from. But you're comparison is rediculous and quite offensive. And you say that Conservatives don't care about anyone other than Americans and I have to disagree. We just have a more broad sense of it. Liberals tend to look at specific examples of pain and suffering, and scream bloody murder, while I tend to look at the 1.5 million killed by Saddam and think that the Iraqi people are better off without him, which by the way the latest polls in Iraq STILL think that they are better off without him too (that was taken from a CNN broadcast). And by the way, you still say that we blew their country to hell... did you pay attention to the war? AT ALL?? It was probably the most humane war that has ever been fought in modern times.

EDIT: And I keep on hearing people harping on Haliburton this and Haliburton that... 1) Haliburton is one of a handful of companies in the world that does the type of work that is needed in Iraq and I believe the only US one (I am not sure about that, though). 2) They don't even have the most lucrative contract in Iraq. 3) Why shoudln't the US spent its money of US companies? We're spending 80 Billion over there, not anyone else. Has the US overspent on contracted companies? Most likely, but that happens on domestic contracts as well its very much on purpose. After all, it saved the US from the Great Depression at the beginning of WW2. I'm going to do some extra research into Haliburton, though, as when there is so much smoke there is most likely fire.

Joeiss, the US has been trying to train Iraqi's to rebuild their country and their military and they keep quitting. (Sorry I don't have a link for this, but I hope you would have heard about 50% of the Iraqi soldiers quitting and the instance when they refused to fight). Also, foreign help in rebuilding has been a staple of post war activities since WW2, and a very successful one at that. Both Japan and Germany were occupied and rebuilt very successfully by the Allies, and in fact became economic powerhouses to rival the US at points afterwards.

Typhoid, please note that while these people may actually agree with you, they also actually bring something to the table in their arguments. Try that sometime.

By the way, I'm glad to see people doing research and looking up information in print of the media now. Looks like my teaching theory is paying off.