Re: Re: Re: I have figured out THE MATRIX
 

I was thinking the same damn thing...

Hey, I live about two hours away from Chicago, I say we see the movie together and bring big sticks.

Re: I have figured out THE MATRIX
 

Crash, I watched Reloaded today and noticed something when the crew went to the "Frenchy"s restaurant. While walking in, he sees someone being escorted out... the guy's got a beard, so I assume he's the bum people've been talking about. Can I get any verification on this?

Also, Frenchy mentions that he's survived Neo's predicesors *sp*, which most likely means the previous "ones". But, could that possibly be much more recent than "intended"? That is, instead of surviving the previous "ones" from way back... maybe the bum/ex-one was trying to kidnap the keymaker.

Just a thought.

Re: I have figured out THE MATRIX
 

i never noticed that, but i'll look into it (about whether that was the bum or not)

Re: I have figured out THE MATRIX
 

His name is the Merovingian. And I'm pretty sure that there is at least a hundred years between emergences of the ones, and that all the previous ones are dead, due to aging, but some might have their mind trapped inside the matrix, who knows? But where does the theorie of the bum being a previous one come from? Is it simply Crash's idea?

Re: I have figured out THE MATRIX
 

If "the one" is a program (which it most likely is), then he might be able to live forever. Or, the one could bend the rules of aging, as he does with many other basic laws.

Now, what if the Merovingian was a previous one (yes, a bit far-fetched). Reasons why I'd think this:

- Oracle quoted (approx) "He's one of the old ones". Could simply mean that he was just some old program... but to do what?

- Merovingian quoted (approx) "Deal with them... deal with them? Have you no respect for your predicessors?" followed later by "I have survived your predicessors, and I will survive you"

- The woman quoted (approx) "He was different... he was like you"


I await Revolutions.

Re: I have figured out THE MATRIX
 

I believe that the real world is really the real world, and if that's true, then Neo has to be human because a program cannot exit the matrix (excepted if done the way smith did it)

It's a good thing you put approx, because you got them all wrong. It was more something like "he's one of the oldest" (talking about exilled programs). And what does it matter what purpose he had? What was the job of the twins, or the wherewolves?

He said "your predecessors had more respect than you"

That one is good, but don't mean much.

Re: I have figured out THE MATRIX
 

The wolves and the twins may be programs he picked up over the many years of "free time" he had. Y'know... like hacks for PSO ¦¬Þ.


If the "real world" is really the real world, then how would it be destroyed five times and then be restored; how also could Neo handle the squiddy; why would the architect treat the one's purpose as part of the control, and tell him that if he were to enter the door to the mainframe, that his "code" (not sure the term he used) would be imprinted into the system. Similar to the last part, how would Neo imprint some code onto Smith if he didn't have a code of his own?


The werewolves though... heh, that was tricky. They (err, he) ought to have a decent part in the next film. I do find it funny how she called them loyal though (loyal dogs, that is).

Re: I have figured out THE MATRIX
 

Only Zion is destroyed, well the people are killed, the place is not destroyed. And there is some ventilation tunnels connecting zion to the upper world, they might be previous tunnels dug by the machines to kill the humans. That was one hell of a twist, and quite frankly I don't know how he did it. But I think that the purpose of that part was to put a doubt in our mind about the real world, but if it's really a matrix inside the matrix, it will suck. I believe that Neo is either a)now capable of some sick mind trick outside the matrix ( :distress: ) or b) able to control the machines trough the matrix whithout being connected or c)something else that we'll learn in revolutions. I think that everybody inside the matrix has their own code, human or not. When your mind is loaded inside, it has to be digitalized, therefore, transformed into code. And the one is the sum of an inbalanced equation, that equation comes from the inconcious choice that every human being plugged into the matrix has (get out to zion or stay in), and that the machine (well the architect) can not resolve but can control by inserting the remainder of that equation into the one, and get that code back at the end to try to solve the equation perhaps? So neo has that code inside of him, giving him his powers, and some of that code got copied into smith when he destroyed him at the end of part 1. Remember the problem is choice (that's what the code neo carries is all about), and now Smith had the choice to continue being an agent or to become a rogue program, because of the code he carries. Anyways, that is what I believe.

That would be the reason why the matrix will crash if Neo doesn't salvage zion, because if zion doesn't exist, the people inside the matrix won't have that choice anymore, and like in the first versions it won't work.

I don't know if it makes sense, but that's my take on it.

Man, what I would give to sit with the Warkoskys (sp) and get all the proper answers.

Re: I have figured out THE MATRIX
 

Nitram. You are very much like me; I base everything I know about the Matrix on facts, not beliefs. With that said, Neo's little destruction of the machines at the end can not and will not be explained by reloaded. That part, like you said, was meant to give the viewers disbelief in the real world. That part has too much symbolic meaning, and it goes back to the point made in the first Matrix by Morpheus "What is Real?"

I think that the outside world could be fake, or even an older Matrix. Like The Architect said, the older versions were perfect, but man didn't have a choice. In Zion does it look like Man really has a choice? There is also a bit of symbolic meaning in one of the orphans giving Neo the Spoon. Maybe they realized they can bend it.

The outside world being fake would be a cheap way to end it, but, if it's fake and inescapable then I would consider it reasonable (we live in an inescapable world as we speak). Also, it could be explained by Neo being a machine who takes human form inside Zion and the Matrix. Like the last movie in the Animatrix, Matriculation, they plugged up a robot who took human form inside.

I doubt that the wachowskis would make a bad third movie. In reloaded they have already proved that they can think very deep, the only questionable part is the ending. In this series they have made two very thrilling endings, but they were all inconclusive. They haven't proven themselves when it comes down to a real ending.

Re: I have figured out THE MATRIX
 

ok just when i read this a had to speak.

i heard (im not sure but i think they're true, because they make sense) that the matrix is really a bible story retold.

heres why

1. Cypher says "hey jesus" to neo in the real world in the first movie
2. resurrection of neo being killed by agent smith
3. how neo fell on the wall when smith killed him (it kind of looks lke jesus on the crucifix)

and that most of the third movie is outside the matrix (i dnt think what i have to explain)

and that Seraph (the asian guy in the tea shop) was once "the one" in a previous matrix.

and remember that i heard this from a friend of mine so dont criticise me

Re: I have figured out THE MATRIX
 

I heard that the bum in the subway in Reloaded was also "the one" back in the day.. You know, they guy who was saying numbers or something.


And there is a bunch of philosophy/reference to Christianity in the Matrix. We are actually studying all of that in Philosophy class right now!

Re: I have figured out THE MATRIX
 

Where do you see that bum? I don't remember him in Reloaded.

However, what about that guy that you see being taken away from the Merovingian before Neo and them talk to him? It seems like he should have some importance.

Re: I have figured out THE MATRIX
 

thats the bum being escorted out

Re: I have figured out THE MATRIX
 

I had a feeling there were some major references to Christianity but was not sure how intentional it was. Of course, since the makers are masterminds of this stuff I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be.

Re: I have figured out THE MATRIX
 

The bum was also in the subway in Enter the Matrix.