Re: Re: Re: Strangler, you need to pull your head out of your government ass!!
 

LOL!!!! I almost passed out when I read that... =-D

And how do I see things in black and white? I said there were valid arguments for gun control. If I were a die hard conservative I would say that there weren't. Meanwhile you prefer to just hurl insults at anything and anyone that dissagrees with you.

As for your website, I'll see you there. I keep forgetting liberals can only attack in packs so that they can continue to validate one another.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Big Fat Liar: Debunking Michael Moore
 

Have you been looking at those websites at all? Yes, newscasters leave things out. But Michael Moore did a lot more than leave a few facts out. Many of the scenes in his documentaries are actually staged. Are you going to start arguing to me that newscasters stage their interviews?

Or how about this one: at one point, Michael Moore showed a speech by Charlton Heston. If you look closely at the footage, you'll notice that his shirt suddenly changes color partway through the speech. Why's that? Because Michael Moore took parts of two speeches that were delivered several months apart and spliced them together, thus making it look like Charlton Heston had said something he never actually did. Go ahead. Look at the video yourself. Are you now going to argue that deceptively splicing footage together is no worse than leaving out a few facts in your reporting? As you said, newscasters are lying "not by choice." So are you going to tell me that Michael Moore kind of accidentally spliced together footage to create a non-existent speech that just happens to help his argument?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Big Fat Liar: Debunking Michael Moore
 

The problme with arguing about things like these is that not everyone will ever agree. We could argue forever. I think Micheal's Bowling for Columbine was a great movie. I did learn a lot about gun control in America. I'm not saying that changing facts is right but he did present quite a few disturbing facts. I was amazed at the number of gun murders in America.

And I really liked the parts about Canada. =-D

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Big Fat Liar: Debunking Michael Moore
 

ok...i have no clue what the f*ck all this is talking about, who the hell is micheal moore and wtf is going on?!

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Big Fat Liar: Debunking Michael Moore
 

*sigh*

Never mind. You're not even talking about what you were talking about in your first post. In these cases, I would call you just plain willfully blind. But never mind that. I agree that we're not going to get anywhere with this, but it's not because we have mutually incompatible opinions. You're not even informing yourself on the issue.

For example, did you know that some of the Canada sections from Bowling for Columbine were staged?

But I suppose you'll just avoid the issue and go off to talk about something we weren't even talking about before.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Big Fat Liar: Debunking Michael Moore
 

So you learned a lot from facts that have been changed...
:wtf:

...

*brain explodes*

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Big Fat Liar: Debunking Michael Moore
 

*clears throat*

anyone mind answering me please?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Big Fat Liar: Debunking Michael Moore
 

Michael Moore is a reknowned filmmaker who claims to be a documentarian, and even won the oscar for Best Documentary at last years Academy Awards for Bowling for Columbine. His other works were Canadian Bacon, Roger and Me and the short lived Bravo series "The Awful Truth". He holds a lot of sway with the left wing and has been acclaimed as a modern day muck raking journalist who exposes corporate and right wing conspiracies and "evil".

The sad truth is that he is a propoganda artist of the highest degree. He has lied in his works, staged events that he claims were non-fiction, and creatively edits what he does film to suit his agenda. He then has the audacity to proclaim in his Oscar acceptance speech that he is a teller of truth in "ficticious times." If these are ficticious times, he is a huge part of that fiction.

If you want the real deal on his work and just how manipulating he can be, rent his movie Bowling for Columbine... fully absorb it... and then thoroughly read bowlingfortruth.com hitting every link you can find. You won't have to take my word for it if you do.

RANZID: I registered over at Rajah, and I still haven't received my confirmation e-mail so I can get started teaching your friends the path of sober thinking. Any idea whats going on?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Big Fat Liar: Debunking Michael Moore
 

I watched the "A Brief History of America" clip, LOL. Moore's "brief history" on the KKK is so off it's ridiculous.

Marilyn Manson was right on the fact though that the media trys to make you afraid.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Big Fat Liar: Debunking Michael Moore
 

thank you...i still only partially get it, but i don't care anymore, its not that important :p

+rep anyway :)

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Big Fat Liar: Debunking Michael Moore
 

The media wants ratings. They take precedent over anything else. Blaming Mansom for murders when the murderers actually HATED his music is just one example.

I referenced the Brief History in my earlier post. Moore claims that there is a connection between the NRA and KKK. Never mind that the NRA was founded by union abolishionists. Once again, facts don't matter to him.

He also alludes to the Pilgrims being irrationally afraid of the British when they fled to the new world. The fact is that at the time Britain had demanded that everyone would "convert to the Church of England or die." Puritans were being jailed and executed at the time, but once again facts don't matter much to Moore.

I highly urge that everyone reads Bowlingfortruth.com, even if you are skeptical of the facts I have posted. the have an EXCELLENT dissection of the entirety of movie as well as the horribly inaccurate Brief History of America cartoon. If you go in with an open mind that site will open it more.

Wow. I don't agree with what you guys are saying, okay? I'm not WILLFULLY BLIND and I did inform myself by reading those sites. But becasue I disagree with you ,you'll probably call me stupid. And you guys have a problem with political srguments. I'm willing to see things from other points of view. But you (The Strangler and possibly Xantar) will just yell at me for saying what I believe which is mainly why i didn't argue with you. I didn't want another huge fight. But I don't agree with everything that you're saying. Now, I have read the info on the sites and have re-evaluated my beliefs and though what you say makes sense but I still don't agree with you. You can yell at me and throw your "facts" at me but I still won't care. Just like you won't be persuaded to see things from my POV i haven't been swayed to see things from yours. People of your political party spout lies and bull**** just like you say Michael Moore does. No matter what political party someone is in, some people will think they're full of ****. That is the problem about arguing about politics.

Bowlingfortruth is a pretty good site...and I loved Bowling for Columbine after I walked out of theater, but some of the things they pointed out obviously make me a bit unsure now. I definetly won't take this move quite as seriously any more, even though it's still enjoyable to watch. Though I think sometimes the author of the site may misconstrue some of Moore's scenes and act like they are implying much worse lies or untruths then they really do. For instance, when the author is examining the native american scene in the "Brief History of America" cartoon he says, "We are told, regarding what the Pilgrims did to the Indians: 'They killed them all' and then 'You would think that wiping out an entire race of people would calm em down.' That's 2 lines telling us that Native Americans were made extinct by the Pilgrims. Someone is lying here. Either Michael Moore, or the 1990 U.S. Census, that says there are 1,878,285 Native American Indians in the United States. Someone should send a memo to these people and notify them that they don't exist."

Now...I feel that this point is a bit ridiculous. It's obvious that exaggeration is used, and if anyone actually believes that all Native Americans were made extinct by the Pilgrims. He acts like the public wouldn't be able to point that out for themselves. Does anyone honestly believe that Moore thinks that no Native Americans are alive anymore? C'mon...

Another part I had a problem with is during the examination of the "What a Wonderful World" montage. The author states, "So Moore paints a picture of the US plopping bombs on Iraq 'on a weekly basis' just cuz we feel like it - the reality is quite different. The point is about twisting the act of law enforcement into something that seems unjustified."

I may be wrong about this, but as far as I remember there wasn't necessarily this implication that they were "plopping bombs just cuz we feel like it"...Of course there is a reason for the bombings, but that doesn't take away from the fact that the bombings did in fact take place, which I believe may be the main point. Obviously every viewer will read this scene and statement in a different way, and I suppose I just took a different apporach in the examination some of these scenes...I mean, I disagree with a lot of the opinions the author gives on certain scenes, and believe that Bushnell ( I think that's his name) provides a similar sort of conservative spin on his agruments against Moore and the movie. Though he doesn't tell outright lies and he does expose Moore's which I applaud think is the most useful portion of the site. I could do without some of his analysis which seems a bit exaggerated at points.


Anyway, I haven't completley read through the site, but I think I get the gist of it...My overwhelming positive opinion of Moore has slipped a lot. I probably got caught up in my typical liberal, gun-control ways without wanting to see the truth. I suppose the main problem was that I thought I WAS seeing the truth, it is supposed to be a documentary right? That said, I don't need Michael Moore or anyone else to tell me that I don't agree with current gun control regulations. There's still something wrong when there are so many gun related homocides and deaths in the United States. I don't have the answer, and don't think Michael Moore does either (lies don't help), but the fact that my opinions on this movie and Moore have changed don't really affect my personal feeling about gun politics, which is most important to me.

I'm formally removing myself from this conversation.

And I do know that some "facts" were "not facts" but the rest of my points I still back up.

Re: Big Fat Liar: Debunking Michael Moore
 

Exactly what do you back them up with? Candy?

BTW, I'm not Republican (which I pointed out in my first post) and Xantar is a liberal (I think), just not one of the hysterical scaremongering variety.

Germenator, I do agree that at times bowlingfortruth.com does exagerrate, and moorewatch can be even worse but they're by contributors so it goes from post to post. Your example of the piece on the Indians I noticed also and found it to be a bit offensive. While Moore is oversimplistic about his accusations, so is the site in that manor. Anyone who has heard of the trail of tears knows that the Native Americans were not treated well. I also don't agree with the authors assertions on Marilyn Manson's contribution to Columbine. In this he becomes a victim of his passion much like Moore.

Visiting those sites is much like watching the Fox News Channel. You can learn a lot that no one else will tell you, but you also have to take it with a grain of salt, or in Moore's case an 8 ball of heroin.

If you want a great, level headed sober opinion, Jonah Goldberg is your man.