Re: Obama and the Birthers
 

You would recognize this as a problem, then, correct? Listening to the town halls today, one of the major things I noticed was that there were 5 bills that people were trying to comment on. Of course people are going to mix up the policies in the bills.

It comes to the point that the town halls are utterly useless because there is nothing to discuss because the "out" for the politician is always "hey, we're not even out of the committee yet and there is a lot of work to do" or "Thats not MY bill"... Then why are they having a town hall meeting in the first place to push an incomplete or non-accountable plan?

People leave more confused and distrusting then when they walked in. Politicians still don't seem to understand that their constituents take their healthcare very seriously and are going to demand clarity and transparency before they'll support anything as a majority. This isn't some process bill or whether or not to increase taxes on the rich that people will accept the Cliff's Notes on. It hits home for every American and those politicians supporting the public option are still refusing to treat the subject with the seriousness that the voter is demanding. I think people feel disrespected and the anger is VERY real.

This is the greatest failure of communications and leadership I've seen in government since... well... the last time they tried to push through a healthcare bill. Even then, our leaders NEVER talked down to the American people as they are now, dismissing them as ignoramuses, sycophants, racists or worse.

Re: Obama and the Birthers
 

To me, this goes back to who is making this news legitamate. There's been tons of conspiracy theories in history, including a big one that's about to hit its 8 year anneversary. If our elected officials would just completly dismiss this subject as they did 9-11, then the story would no longer be legit, and it would no longer be played on anything but extreme conservative radio talkshows.

By polititans acknowleging this and not saying confidently that they belive that he's elgible to be president of the united states.. they are allowing this to get more play then it should.

Re: Obama and the Birthers
 

Actually, that's a question I'm not quite sure about. I think we can agree that the majority of US citizens are oblivious to the major issues confronting our country, and are not informed with regard to policy, legislation, or their respective representatives. If we agree to that, I then ask why? I have two answers. One, politicians want and/or require an oblivious majority to "keep the masses down." Or, two, the majority of citizens prefer to remain oblivious. I suppose the correct answer lies somewhere in between. But, if the majority does indeed prefer to remain oblivious, can they truly be blamed (or stopped, for that matter)?

Re: Obama and the Birthers
 

The "Birther" movement is one of the most asinine things I've seen in a long time. I mean, seriously, we are STILL talking about this? These idiots don't deserve a voice anywhere near the media. It is dumb beyond words.

I think one was the funniest things is that John McCain was actually born in Panama and not in the US. Yeah, I know it's totally legitimate, but I just find that amusing.

Re: Obama and the Birthers
 

You know, when that first came up as a concern, Obama actually backed Mccain and said its not an issue. Which squashed it and made it.. well... not be an issue. He could have done like the republican party is doing now to him, and continue to feul questions about Mccain's elgibility... but instead he chose not to lower himself to doing that.

Which is why I still think its not the media's fault directly for covering this, its the representatives who give this issue some legitamacy.

Re: Obama and the Birthers
 

Man I gotta read 1984 and A Brave New World some time.

Re: Obama and the Birthers
 

I'm not sure you meant to imply this, but please do not confuse the Birther issue by stating the "Republican party" is doing this to Obama. I think most people who associate themseves with Republicans and independent conservatives, including the party leadership, wish this whole mess would go away as it colors discussion on the issues and takes valuable time away for more important, winnable issues like universal health insurance. I think many Democrats LOVE this issue and want to put it in the limelight (ex. The Colbert Report) because as you having demonstrated it this conspiracy from the wacko right wing fringe stains of the entire party.

Once again I don't think you intended to to do so, but saying that Birthers represent the Republican view on Obama's legitimacy is like saying 9/11 conspirators represent the Democrats view of the World Trade Center attacks. Both of these conspiracies are about attacking a person (Obama and Bush, respectively) based on Dan Brown-esque fantasy that has been debunked 1,000 times rather than having thoughtful debate on real issues.

Re: Obama and the Birthers
 

I think in order for this issue to die, and no longer have any association with the republican party, all of the republican representatives need to do exactly like the democrats are doing now and dismiss the issue as false. If you watch the video that I posted, you can see how he was trying to use political BS to maneuver around saying Obama is a legitimate US president.

While republican's claiming they KNOW he's eligible may be a lie, it gives them less negative media attention.

You mention 9/11, both Republican's and Democrats dismiss that issue and claim confidently that Bush knew nothing about it beforehand.. even though that's technically a lie since most people don't KNOW this for sure, and there are some OBVIOUS questions about 9-11 and Bush's relationship with the Bin Ladens.. both sides just dismissed it so they didn't look like jackasses. So it didn't get much major media play even though lots of people out there think there's a conspiracy.

When Mccain's eligibility was brought back up in early 2008, both sides of the isle dismissed it. They both said confidently that its not an issue, So it became a non issue, and didn't get much major media play.

Now we have this birther issue, where representatives are scared to squash it.

Re: Obama and the Birthers
 

Hmmmm, so Dennis Kucinich believes in aliens. Well following your logic the entire Democrat party need to speak out against the belief that aliens exist, or else we can freely assume they believe in aliens themselves. See how silly that sounds?

Furthermore, if they actually did so speak out against alien belief, wouldn't this non-subject suddenly be considered a major news story again? You don't make a story disappear by continuing to talk about it. People have said their piece about Birthers, but the media has chosen to give air time and press to the 5% of Republicans and independent wackos who actually think this is a huge issue. Continuing to address it as though it were serious would only add more fuel to the fire, IMO.

All the Republican party can do is what they've done so far: Reject this idea as a whole. If you want to assign blame to an entire group because of the beliefs of the fringe few, well then thats more your issue than the Republican party's. And quite honestly, this issue already seems to have gone away for lack of addressing it and the fever pitch healthcare insurance debates are bringing, so I doubt denying what has been already been denied will accomplish much more.

We also don't KNOW Elvis is dead. You can either believe his friends, family, doctors, legitimate news agencies and dig up his rotten stinking corpse... or listen to the fat bearded lady that saw him in 7/11 buying a Slurpee in 1986. Wait... 7/11... 9/11... ELVIS AND THE FAT LADY PLANNED THE WORLD TRADE CENTER ATTACKS!!!

On a related note, Bat Boy just graduated from college. Hey, I read it in the Weekly World News, it must be true!!

And thats all I have to say about the 9/11 "debate". It's already been done to death on this forum, and elsewhere and I have no interest in discussing such nonsense further. It saddens me.

Exactly, but this nutter birther group is. Why do you think the media is/was spending so much more time on a subject that makes the Republicans look bad? It's because the Republican party itself wants to look like morons or is it that the media wants to concentrate on the handful that believe in the tooth fairy BECAUSE it makes the Republicans look bad?

Re: Obama and the Birthers
 

In support of what Prof has said previously, I can't see, politically, how perpetuating this issue benefits the Republicans at all. Maybe it fires up the base? But it's not as if this is fundraising season, or that the Republicans need to secure the right-wing base's vote anymore. It definitely does not help with the swing-vote, that is for certain. But who knows.

Re: Obama and the Birthers
 

No, it gets a lot of play because of things like the 'birther bill', and because a good amount of republican party representatives refuse to deny that this subject is legit.

Re: Obama and the Birthers
 

There is no stronger denial than a representative's VOTE.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_246300.html

Even those that SPONSORED the "birther bill" affirmed Pres. Obama's citizenship.

EDIT: Portions removed due to "snippiness". I'm working on it :D

Re: Obama and the Birthers
 

I see where you're coming from prof, even in the video I posted the congressman seemed embarrased about it but still admitted that he thinks that Obama is a US citezen. The 10 republicans in the houise supporting the birther bill in the first place, mixed with the public reaction to it is why it got media play though.

If 10 elected official democrats supported a bill that said that all US presidents need blood tests to prove that they don't have any ailen DNA strands before becoming president, while big mouth democrats were coming to town halls saying that Bush is from mars.. and there was a house democrat saying openly that they can't swear on a stack of bibles that Bush isn't from mars.. it'd get coverage too.

Re: Obama and the Birthers
 

I'll agree thats it makes it newsworthy, but thats an off-shoot of our main discussion on media concentration: Can you reasonably make assumptions about the entire party's views on birthers from the few fringe members? Remember you did make those assumptions in an earlier post I quoted and bolded, and think I've shown that you can't, especially given the evidence I've posted that the party has been pretty clear in their rejection of the whole mess.

Here is more evidence:

http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/re...is-us-citizen/

The sad part is that I didn't find this on any major news source. I don't think the media considers Republicans against the birthers to be newsworthy. So Republicans for birthers=news, and those that speak out against it are largely ignored, probably helping you to lead to your initial conclusion.

And you have referred to video, I'll do so myself showing how most republicans view the birther mess:



And even the left has admitted this is a fringe issue (although I think they overstate/misunderstand the racial element)



By the way, for every piece of news relating the fringiness of this whole mess, there are about 10 trying to pin it on the entire republican party, and almost all of them saying birther=racist (I'll admit I think that for a small part of the birthers (who are a tiny group themselves) thats the real reason) including Chris Matthews who I think is more responsible for this rediculous coverage than anyone else outside of Lou freaking Dobbs. Wow, he completely fell apart as a journalist during and after the election.

Re: Obama and the Birthers
 

I'll agree with you, that it shouldn't be something that represents the whole republican party.

Its just from what I've seen, it didn't get any serious attention in media until after the birther bill came out. Some legitamate people who happend to all be republicans added strong feul to the fire.

But yeah, now (for the most part) they're trying to disassociate themselves from the Birther movement. I don't think any of them really think Obama was born in Kenya, they've just done something that gives the media a reason to pick on them.