We blew up a wedding

[Stonecutter]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ats-ap_top11may23,1,360142.story?coll=chi-news-hed

AP: Video Shows Iraq Wedding Celebration

By SCHEHEREZADE FARAMARZI
Associated Press Writer

May 23, 2004, 10:11 PM CDT

RAMADI, Iraq -- A videotape obtained Sunday by Associated Press Television News captures a wedding party that survivors say was later attacked by U.S. planes early Wednesday, killing up to 45 people. The dead included the cameraman, Yasser Shawkat Abdullah, hired to record the festivities, which ended Tuesday night before the planes struck.

The U.S. military says it is investigating the attack, which took place in the village of Mogr el-Deeb about five miles from the Syrian border, but that all evidence so far indicates the target was a safehouse for foreign fighters.

"There was no evidence of a wedding: no decorations, no musical instruments found, no large quantities of food or leftover servings one would expect from a wedding celebration," Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt said Saturday. "There may have been some kind of celebration. Bad people have celebrations, too."

But video that APTN shot a day after the attack shows fragments of musical instruments, pots and pans and brightly colored beddings used for celebrations, scattered around the bombed out tent.

The wedding videotape shows a dozen white pickup trucks speeding through the desert escorting the bridal car -- decorated with colorful ribbons. The bride wears a Western-style white bridal dress and veil. The camera captures her stepping out of the car but does not show a close-up.

An AP reporter and photographer, who interviewed more than a dozen survivors a day after the bombing, were able to identify many of them on the wedding party video -- which runs for several hours.

APTN also traveled to Mogr el-Deeb, 250 miles west of Ramadi, the day after the attack to film what the survivors said was the wedding site. A devastated building and remnants of the tent, pots and pans could be seen, along with bits of what appeared to be the remnants of ordnance, one of which bore the marking "ATU-35," similar to those on U.S. bombs.

A water tanker truck can be seen in both the video shot by APTN and the wedding tape obtained from a cousin of the groom.

The singing and dancing seems to go on forever at the all-male tent set up in the garden of the host, Rikad Nayef, for the wedding of his son, Azhad, and the bride Rutbah Sabah. The men later move to the porch when darkness falls, apparently taking advantage of the cool night weather. Children, mainly boys, sit on their fathers' laps; men smoke an Arab water pipe, finger worry beads and chat with one another. It looks like a typical, gender-segregated tribal desert wedding.

As expected, women are out of sight - but according to survivors, they danced to the music of Hussein al-Ali, a popular Baghdad wedding singer hired for the festivities. Al-Ali was buried in Baghdad on Thursday.

Prominently displayed on the videotape was a stocky man with close-cropped hair playing an electric organ. Another tape, filmed a day later in Ramadi and obtained by APTN, showed the musician lying dead in a burial shroud -- his face clearly visible and wearing the same tan shirt as he wore when he performed.

As the musicians played, young men milled about, most dressed in traditional white robes. Young men swayed in tribal dances to the monotonous tones of traditional Arabic music. Two children -- a boy and a girl -- held hands, dancing and smiling. Women are rarely filmed at such occasions, and they appear only in distant glimpses.

Kimmitt said U.S. troops who swept through the area found rifles, machine guns, foreign passports, bedding, syringes and other items that suggested the site was used by foreigners infiltrating from Syria.

The videotape showed no weapons, although they are common among rural Iraqis.

Kimmitt has denied finding evidence that any children died in the raid although a "handful of women" -- perhaps four to six -- were "caught up in the engagement."

"They may have died from some of the fire that came from the aircraft," he told reporters Friday.

However, an AP reporter obtained names of at least 10 children who relatives said had died. Bodies of five of them were filmed by APTN when the survivors took them to Ramadi for burial Wednesday. Iraqi officials said at least 13 children were killed.

Four days after the attack, the memories of the survivors remain painful -- as are their injuries.

Haleema Shihab, 32, one of the three wives of Rikad Nayef, said that as the first bombs fell, she grabbed her seven-month old son, Yousef, and clutching the hands of her five-year-old son, Hamza, started running. Her 15-year-old son, Ali, sprinted alongside her. They managed to run for several yards when she fell -- her leg fractured.

"Hamza was yelling, 'mommy,'" Shihab, recalled. "Ali said he was hurt and that he was bleeding. That's the last time I heard him." Then another shell fell and injured Shihab's left arm.

"Hamza fell from my hand and was gone. Only Yousef stayed in my arms. Ali had been hit and was killed. I couldn't go back," she said from her hospital bed in Ramadi. Her arm was in a cast.

She and her stepdaughter, Iqbal -- who had caught up with her -- hid in a bomb crater. "We were bleeding from 3 a.m. until sunrise," Shihab said.

Soon American soldiers came. One of them kicked her to see if she was alive, she said.

"I pretended I was dead so he wouldn't kill me," said Shihab. She said the soldier was laughing. When Yousef cried, the soldier said: "'No, stop," said Shihab.

Fourteen-year-old Moza, Shihab's stepdaughter, lies on another bed of the hospital room. She was hurt in the leg and cries. Her relatives haven't told her yet that her mother, Sumaya, is dead.

"I fear she's dead," Moza said of her mother. "I'm worried about her."

Moza was sleeping on one side of the porch next to her sisters Siham, Subha and Zohra while her mother slept on the other end. There were many others on the porch, her cousins, stepmothers and other female relatives.

When the first shell fell, Moza and her sisters, Subha, Fatima and Siham ran off together. Moza was holding Subha's hand.

"I don't know where Fatima and my mom were. Siham got hit. She died. I saw Zohra's head gone. I lost consciousness," said Moza, covering her mouth with the end of her headscarf.

Her sister Iqbal, lay in pain on the bed next to her. Her other sister, Subha, was on the upper floor of the hospital, in the same room with two-year-Khoolood. Her small body was bandaged and a tube inserted in her side drained her liver.

Her ankle was bandaged. A red ribbon was tied to her curly hair. Only she and her older brother, Faisal, survived from their immediate family. Her parents and four sisters and brothers were all killed.

In all, 27 members of Rikad Nayef's extended family died -- most of them children and women, the family said.

[gekko]

I guess terrorists don't get married, do they? Of course not! That is, if there even was a wedding.

[Hero2]

HAHAHAHAHA.....LOFL....Wars a b*tch!!!!!!!!

[Crash]

HAHAHAHAHA.....LOFL....Wars a b*tch!!!!!!!!


what an asshole... LOL a funny asshole, but an asshole nevertheless

[Dylflon]

I'm rather surprised by Hero2's insensitivity.

I think the wedding bombing is a terrible thing. Those people didn't deserve to die.

Will these people be classified as "casualties of war"?

The Iraqi people have been so dehumanized to American people that people laugh when they read about innocent people being killed while attending a wedding.

Sickening.

[GameMaster]

I was sad when I read it. The troops are getting a little too relaxed if you ask me, they need to do more detailed checks before they attack someone or something. And even worse, the General guy tries to clear his name by saying it didn't look like a wedding celebration to him, he says, "Bad people have celebrations too." Very lame. :shakehead

[gekko]

The troops? What are the troops doing? It was bombed, meaning the most the troops got is something like "NA 08565 36452." That, BTW, is a 5-digit grid coordinate, accurate to within 1 meter. Pilot gets it, drops the bomb. Troops getting too relaxed, they have no idea what they are bombing.

It could have been bad intelligence. Oops. Better luck next time.

Or, we could've had someone on the ground who designated the target, and if that was the case, there's a reason that place was hit.

Since when did America need to justify every bombing to the world? You have no idea what is going on over there, and you don't care until you can spin it to suit your political argument. None of you cared when these people died before, because you don't care about these people. You only pretend to now, because you can use it as an attack on Bush, who, by the way, does not approve every shot fired in Iraq.

Some crazy journalist who knows nothing of the military strategy is going in after each battle and creating some stupid story for the NYTimes and you guys get all excited, like Bush is going to lose. There's a million reasons why this place could've been bombed, and some of them are not exactly going to be disclosed to the public. For example, say a Syrian or Iranian leader was going to be at the wedding, and we had intel that they were paying the insurgents to go into Iraq and fight. Well guess what? We're not at war with those countries, you can't just go tell the world "Hey, we're killing your guys now" without starting another war. God damn, that actually makes sense. One of many possible reasons.

No journalist knows why we're doing what we're doing. They're kept completely out of the military strategy, they just go in after we attack and interview civilians. Well her husband just got shot, no **** she's not happy with us. Then again, the husband was shooting at us with RPGs, but of course, let's leave that out of the story.

Oh no, some innocent civilians got hit with a bomb blast. Well no ****, I thought bombs only killed one person. Here's a better idea, to prevent that, how about we send more soldiers on foot. Oh wait, we don't have that many. Well good, let's draft em from all you ****ers sitting back and whining about innocents dying. Then I can sit back and train you draftees and send you over to die. But look on the bright side, less innocent Iraqis will die.

[Canyarion]

Leave Iraq. Now. :mad:

[Professor S]

This is a perfect example of what I have been talking about. The keft have taken an example of a mistake made during wartime, analyze it to death and try to put more importance on their lives that ever trying to look at THE BIG PICTURE.

Why do they do that?

Because if they looked at the big picture they'd see the thousands of lives that have actually been SAVED by the war. But no, 40+ people at a wedding were killed so the entire war and all the people who won't be terrorized and murdered out of hand mean absolutely NOTHING. You have to love human rights issues when they become pure politics.

[Crash]

it says there were rifles and foreign passports, they suspect it was a camp (who just happened to also have a wedding)

terrorists get married to. damn liberal reporters, just writing up the "sad, poor iraqi's" crap. american media sickens me.

keep serving your country boys!

*prepares to vote for bush*

[Dylflon]

Grrr!

You people have little or no regard for human life. You just don't give a ****.

At this point I don't give a flying **** who is in the White House this year. Republican or Democrat, this war will continue.

And don't just think I'm anti-American. I care about the lives of the soldiers that this war is costing.

But to say you want to go into a country and help it and then kill thousands of civilians? What the hell is that!?

What's your excuse? You're killing them so that they don't die!? Granted, some civilians will get killed in cross fire and such. I can handle that. But SO MANY civilians have died.

You're not protecting them from terror. You're subjecting them to terror this very moment. Is it a surprise they're fighting back? There was an estimate (which I'll attempt to find) that said that every person in Iraq has lost at least one member of their family in one branch in every direction.

When this war is done, the Iraqis will have nothing but hate for the Americans. This could spawn more terror attacks against America. Therefore, this has to be the most pointless war since Vietnam.

I don't have some sort of political agenda when I talk about civilian death. I'm simply disgusted by the fact that so many civilians are dying. I can't help but think some of the reporters reporting these stories feel the same way.

[Professor S]

Grrr!

You people have little or no regard for human life. You just don't give a ****.

At this point I don't give a flying **** who is in the White House this year. Republican or Democrat, this war will continue.

And don't just think I'm anti-American. I care about the lives of the soldiers that this war is costing.

But to say you want to go into a country and help it and then kill thousands of civilians? What the hell is that!?

What's your excuse? You're killing them so that they don't die!? Granted, some civilians will get killed in cross fire and such. I can handle that. But SO MANY civilians have died.

You're not protecting them from terror. You're subjecting them to terror this very moment. Is it a surprise they're fighting back? There was an estimate (which I'll attempt to find) that said that every person in Iraq has lost at least one member of their family in one branch in every direction.

When this war is done, the Iraqis will have nothing but hate for the Americans. This could spawn more terror attacks against America. Therefore, this has to be the most pointless war since Vietnam.

I don't have some sort of political agenda when I talk about civilian death. I'm simply disgusted by the fact that so many civilians are dying. I can't help but think some of the reporters reporting these stories feel the same way.

You keep missing what I'm talking about when I say the BIG PICTURE. You look at civilian casualties that happen now because of the war, and I see all the death and torture that the war is currently preventing that happened on a far larger scale from day to day in Iraq, and all the death and torture that this war will save 10 years in the future.

Please don't accuse those that support the war of not caring about human life, we just see this war as a boon for human life in the long run in Iraq. You are letting yourself drop back into the "conservatives are evil" mindframe again and it strips you of a LOT of credibility.

[Dylflon]

Great, Strangler.

I'm not dropping into an anyone is evil frame of mind. Can't someone be pissed off about people dying and not have a political agenda?

And I'm sorry, you were so right! The big picture! This has been the most poorly operated military operation I have seen in my entire life. Are you people aware that Bush declared that the mission was accomplised just a littel overt a year ago? Yet people are still being killed. Civilians might I add.

Go ahead and think of your army as righteous for what they are doing. But most people think of them as the new crusaders and that's not a good thing. What the army is doing would be a lot more righteous if they weren't killing so many ****ing innocent people.

And most people here obviously don't care anything for the lives of Iraqis because when a story about families being killed in a wedding bombing is posted they laugh about it and support they're troops doing things like this.

This is just plain ****ed up. Right now I don't give a damn abotu politics. I care about the fact that the Iraqi people have been dehumanized to you. You don't care that they're dying.

BTW, did you read the whole article? About the video tapes of the wedding? Did you or did you decide to pretend you didn't when you said they were probably terrorists?

Do you know how sore you'd be about things like this if it were your country being invaded? Think about that. What if it were you? You know what you'd do when it was over? Attack back.

That's what Iraq will more than likely do. Your big picture is bull****. This is a war about securing American interests in the Middle East. They have things America wants. That's why they're there. If there was some sort of ruthless dictator killing people in Ethiopia, America wouldn't do anything about it.

Americans need to stop wrapping these tradegies in "good intentions", jesus and the american flag. You accuse reporters of not knowing whats happening there when they're reporting things there. They've been there. You haven't. So don't go thinking you know more than they do. All you have is assumptions. They have first hand experience.

[DeathsHand]

I get confused on the whole Iraq issue, because yes we're killing some innocent people etc, but yes Saddam has killed many more blah blah...

But the thing is, we didn't go in there because Saddam killed his people (some guy bursts in saying "Yeah we went in there for oil! NO BLOOD FOR OIL!"), we went in there because they thought Iraq was a threat... Not to his own people, but to us, our allies, or the stability of the region... whatever...

Then when they find no weapons and people raise questions, the administration changes what they say to be "SADDAM KILLED A TON OF HIS OWN PEOPLE!" which kinda turns the table and makes people who say we shouldn't have gone in in the first place look evil...

Not to mention back when Bush was "Presidential hopefull" or nominee or what have you, he said stuff like "I don't think our troops should be used for what's called nation building"...

and "I'm not so sure the role of the United States is to go around the world and say this is the way it's got to be. ...I just don't think it's the role of the United States to walk into a country and say, we do it this way, so should you."

[Professor S]

Great, Strangler.

I'm not dropping into an anyone is evil frame of mind. Can't someone be pissed off about people dying and not have a political agenda?

And I'm sorry, you were so right! The big picture! This has been the most poorly operated military operation I have seen in my entire life. Are you people aware that Bush declared that the mission was accomplised just a littel overt a year ago? Yet people are still being killed. Civilians might I add.

Go ahead and think of your army as righteous for what they are doing. But most people think of them as the new crusaders and that's not a good thing. What the army is doing would be a lot more righteous if they weren't killing so many ****ing innocent people.

And most people here obviously don't care anything for the lives of Iraqis because when a story about families being killed in a wedding bombing is posted they laugh about it and support they're troops doing things like this.

This is just plain ****ed up. Right now I don't give a damn abotu politics. I care about the fact that the Iraqi people have been dehumanized to you. You don't care that they're dying.

Way to completely ignore EVERYTHING I posted earlier and just keep on rambling while putting words in my mouth. Brilliant.

BTW, did you read the whole article? About the video tapes of the wedding? Did you or did you decide to pretend you didn't when you said they were probably terrorists?

Did I ever claim that they were terrorists? No. I said they were civilian casualties, and they happen. WW2 is the most important event in world history, IMO, and the amount of civilian casualties in Iraq PALES in comparison. Entire cities were LEVELED and bombed indescriminantly. Do you believe that war was an abomination like the Iraqi war, or do the MILLIONS of lives that it saved justify the methods used? Like I said, look at the BIG PICTURE. You are letting current events and the media pull at your heart strings and abandon logic and historical precedence.

Do you know how sore you'd be about things like this if it were your country being invaded? Think about that. What if it were you? You know what you'd do when it was over? Attack back.

Yeah, except most of the people fighting AREN'T IRAQI'S. They are Iranian, Syrian and even Saudi Arabian insurgents.

That's what Iraq will more than likely do. Your big picture is bull****. This is a war about securing American interests in the Middle East. They have things America wants. That's why they're there. If there was some sort of ruthless dictator killing people in Ethiopia, America wouldn't do anything about it.

LOL!!! Remember that whole thing in Somalia? They even made a movie about it. It was pretty good if I remember and even won some awards. Oh yeah, and there was Bosnia too. Do you know what you're talking about at all?

Americans need to stop wrapping these tradegies in "good intentions", jesus and the american flag.

Way to stereotype all Americans. Have I ever said one thing about Jesus or the American flag? Nope. But I'm sure you've already stereotyped me as well. Good for you, thats not ignorant at all.

You accuse reporters of not knowing whats happening there when they're reporting things there. They've been there. You haven't. So don't go thinking you know more than they do. All you have is assumptions. They have first hand experience.

I don't deny that what the reporters are saying isn't true. I've accurately pointed out how what they report in biased and heavily focus's on the negative. There are hundreds of stories that have come from Iraq that are heartwarming and downright idealistic, but they rarely get any press. Why? Good news doesn't get ratings and also don't satisfy political agendas.

I use historical precedence to make my decisions, and when I see a ruthless dictator overthrown and democracy put in its place and the country is rebuilt, all I see historically is that absolutely wonderful things result.

[Hero2]

I'm rather surprised by Hero2's insensitivity.

I think the wedding bombing is a terrible thing. Those people didn't deserve to die.

Will these people be classified as "casualties of war"?

The Iraqi people have been so dehumanized to American people that people laugh when they read about innocent people being killed while attending a wedding.

Sickening.

Im srry if I offened anyone I dident mean for it to come out so harsh. I dont think it was a good thing that we bombed them or that we killed civilans. I was laughing at the fact that we screwed up BIG. I wasnt lauging at the dead people but the fact that we bombed a wedding it seems like something out of a hot shots movie.

[Crash]

the only reason it seems so bad is because all the stupid reporters, reporting everything that happens all day long (well, the stuff that makes americans looks bad anyways)

this stuff happens in all wars, just isn't covered as well as it is today. The truth is: War is Hell

You can't expect america to be the all righteous perfect nation that does nothing wrong and saves everyone, nation that we claim it to be. This is why I said younger poeple are democrats (aka idealists, but not realists)

and later, when they realize how the real world is run, they become republicans.

yeah, democrats complain all day about the weather, but never do anything about it.

lets imagine if hitler was taken out before he came to power... dont you think it would have been worth the collateral damage?

[Bond]

In an effort to provide a fair and balanced look at the issue, which you rarely get here at GT:

BAGHDAD, Iraq - The U.S. military said Monday its photographs of rifles, machine guns, white powder and foreign passports support its case that it attacked a safehouse for foreign fighters — not a wedding party — near the Syrian border.

Iraqi survivors and police said up to 45 people died, and that the victims had been celebrating a wedding. Video that Associated Press Television News shot a day after the attack shows fragments of musical instruments, pots and pans, and brightly colored beddings used for celebrations, scattered around a bombed out tent.

"At this point, we have seen really nothing that causes us to change our minds. That's why we need to get as much evidence as possible and hand it to the investigators," said Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, the coalition deputy chief of staff for operations in Iraq (news - web sites).

"What we found on the ground and our post-strike analysis suggests that what we had was a significant foreign fighter smuggler waystation in the middle of the desert that was bringing people into this country for the sole purpose of attacking to kill the people of Iraq," he said.

Kimmitt said the U.S. operation lasted from midnight until about 4 a.m. and that ground forces moved in after the bombing.

"We have found no evidence of any children being killed by people on the ground," he said at a news conference. "We have witnesses say that there were no children there."

For the second time, Kimmitt showed pictures of items the military said it found at the attack site, including machine guns, rounds of ammunition, a Sudan Airways plane ticket, medical gear, a Sudanese passport and battery packs associated with improvised explosive devises.

"These are pictures that are somewhat inconsistent, to my mind, with a wedding party," Kimmitt said.

New evidence showed the events on the ground to be "somewhat inconsistent with a wedding party," he said.

Earlier Monday, a senior coalition official said on condition of anonymity that the U.S. military hasn't ruled anything out as it looks into Wednesday's pre-dawn operation, but said he is confident that a legitimate target had been hit.

The official said an investigation into the events "probably" would take weeks.

"We have not denied anything about this incident. We still don't believe there was a wedding going on, or a wedding party going on, when we hit in the early morning hours. Could there have been some sort of celebration going on earlier? Certainly," the official said.

Several hours of video footage obtained Sunday by Associated Press Television News showed a wedding party that survivors said was later attacked by U.S. planes. The dead included the cameraman, Yasser Shawkat Abdullah, hired to record the festivities, which ended Tuesday night before the planes struck.

Among those killed were 27 members of the same family, survivors said.

APTN footage taken on Wednesday in the city of Ramadi shows the burials of women and children who allegedly died in the wedding attack. The U.S. military has said up to six women may have died in its operation.

Source (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&e=2&u=/ap/20040524/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_attack)

[Crash]

:hump: :rambo: ha!!!


see, i told you the American press sucks hardcore... dont believe the media, (cept fox new channel)

[DeathsHand]

I don't see how the article Bond posted is a more fair and balanced look, considering it's written by the same guy... Unless I'm missing the point of posting that, which I probably am...

Seems like nowadays, "Fair and balanced" means "Whatever articles proves my arguement the best"...

Liberals find stories that make the US look bad and say "This is the truth" and then Republicans find another source that paints a different picture and says "No, this is the truth..."...

And come on, Fox News? Granted it's the cable news channel I watch the most (and I watch a lot of the cable news... well, kinda), isn't it supposed to be very aligned to the right? How is that any better than "the rest" of the media which is supposed to be aligned more to the left? Unless of course you're a republican, which makes it better because they're on your side...

[Crash]

And come on, Fox News? Granted it's the cable news channel I watch the most (and I watch a lot of the cable news... well, kinda), isn't it supposed to be very aligned to the right? How is that any better than "the rest" of the media which is supposed to be aligned more to the left? Unless of course you're a republican, which makes it better because they're on your side...

yep, you're right... it isn't any better, it is not fair and balanced, but it supports my views... lol... politics are dumb. Nothing is ever fair and balanced.

[Stonecutter]

I don't often light the fire, I just pour the gas and enjoy the results.