US Media Makes Me Ill

[Professor S]

Let me say one thing before I go off on my rant: I think what happened to the Iraqi prisoners in Abu Graf (sp?) was wrong. Those that are responsible should be court marshalled and punished to the fullest extent of the law. Their actions hurt our world view in the eyes of Muslims and others and also are simply morally and legally wrong.

With that said, I think the rediculous amount of media attention that this has gotten is disgusting and COMPLETELY politically motivated. I'm watching a press conference going on right now and the absolute outrage and contempt of the media for the current administrion is quite obvious and even a little funny.

Where was this outrage when the US citizens, inculding one taken today, were taken hostage for trying to rebuild Iraq?

Where was this outrage when US workers were killed, burned and hung from a bridge?

Where was this outrage when the London Telegraph released the article proving that Saddam was DIRECTLY involved with training 9/11 terrorists?

Where was this outrage when the UN, including its leader Kofi Anan (sp?), became under investigation (and are basically guilty) for MASSIVE corruption involving the Oil for Food program involving *SHOCK* France, Russia and Germany among others?

There was no "outrage", and in fact the last two incedents were barely touched upon for more than one day, if at all.

AND YET WHEN IRAQI PRISONERS HAVE THEIR PICTURES TAKEN IN AWKWARD POSITIONS THE WHOLE WORLD COMES TO AN END. I'VE SEEN WORSE "TORTURE" AT A FRAT PARTY IN COLLEGE. PEOPLE ARE KILLED EVERY DAY IN THAT COUNTRY AND THE MEDIA GETS A BURR UP ITS ASS OVER SOME EMBARRASSING PHOTOS.

And the left love to talk about the "myth" of the liberal media... Give me a break.

[Crash]

glad someone said it, + rep

[Jonbo298]

The story is recent. The media is milking it right now. Give it a few weeks and it'll probably be old news.

[Typhoid]

I've been saying thisngs like that all along...and i got -repped.... :confused: :confused: :confused: ...but hay...+rep to you.

[The Duggler]

Where was this outrage when the US citizens, inculding one taken today, were taken hostage for trying to rebuild Iraq?

Where was this outrage when US workers were killed, burned and hung from a bridge?

Where was this outrage when the London Telegraph released the article proving that Saddam was DIRECTLY involved with training 9/11 terrorists?

Where was this outrage when the UN, including its leader Kofi Anan (sp?), became under investigation (and are basically guilty) for MASSIVE corruption involving the Oil for Food program involving *SHOCK* France, Russia and Germany among others?

Hehehe you're funny Strangler. Must I remind you that your country invaded them? Hence the outrages when your coutry **** up.

Yes it's wrong to be on the far left, but it's not better being on the far right like you.

[Professor S]

Hehehe you're funny Strangler. Must I remind you that your country invaded them? Hence the outrages when your coutry **** up.

Yes it's wrong to be on the far left, but it's not better being on the far right like you.

Yes, we invaded them and removed a regime that slaughtered 1.5 million of its own people, raped whomever they felt like and basically ran a country based on fear. Our citizens who are non-combatants are being taken hostage and killed and it gets cursory media attention. Meanwhile Iraqi PRISONERS or war and terrorism, not CITIZENS trying to WORK, are placed in embarrassing positions for photographs and the media is trying to make it into Watergate 2.

This is obvious, whether you are right or left, and EVERYONE should be outraged by it. Its about perspective, and how the media has completely LOST IT when it comes to the war with the upcoming election.

And please don't try and corner me into some political label, as I am anything but far right, and if you would pay attention to my political posts you would know this. My posts do lean right because the majority of liberal spin flying around these boards tends to be very misinformed and based on selective knowledge, but I have posted my considerable reservations about the Bush Presidency on more than one occasion.

[MuGen]

well said... +rep

[The Duggler]

Yes, we invaded them and removed a regime that slaughtered 1.5 million of its own people, raped whomever they felt like and basically ran a country based on fear

I admit that you are well informed on the subject Strangler, much more than me, but you still come off as a guy that only looks at one side of the story.

The 1.5 million people that he murdered. You`re talking about the Chiites right? The same Chiites that are rebelling on you right now? You see, that country is a mess anyways, it's devided by 3 major ethnicities that hate each other. How can you make it work? A brutal dictator might be the only solution.

And didn't the US encouraged the Chiite rebelion a few years ago? A factor that could have something to do in their massacre?

[Jonbo298]

I thought it was spelled Shiite :unsure:

[Professor S]

I admit that you are well informed on the subject Strangler, much more than me, but you still come off as a guy that only looks at one side of the story.

I often only post one side of the story because the other side has numerous defenders here. There is no need.

The 1.5 million people that he murdered. You`re talking about the Chiites right? The same Chiites that are rebelling on you right now?

Not just the Shiites were killed, anyone presenting a perceived threat was killed. Example: On the fifth day of Saddam's rule he aired a nationally broadcasted meeting of all the countries leaders. While smoking a cigar Saddam's right hand man read off a random list of names of "traitors" who were ushered out of the building, never to be seen again. They were killed so that Saddam could send a message: Anyone can be killed at any time.

One of his generals disagreed with him once (the name escapes me) and was imprisoned. The general's wife begged for his release and Saddam agreed. Saddam sent the general back to his wife... chopped into several pieces in a sack.

5,000 Kurds were slaughtered so that Saddam could test chemical weapons.

Rape camps were set up and the military could just pick out women they found attractive, accuse them with some bogus charge, and then send them to the camps to be toys for the boys.

Etc. etc. etc.

You see, that country is a mess anyways, it's devided by 3 major ethnicities that hate each other. How can you make it work? A brutal dictator might be the only solution.

That comment is ignorant, simplistic and borderline racist and I really don't think I need to explain why.

And didn't the US encouraged the Chiite rebelion a few years ago? A factor that could have something to do in their massacre?

While I don't agree with what the US did to encourage the rebellion, are you really implyin that its the US's fault there have been 400,000 bodies found in mass graves in Iraq so far? If thats the case, is there ANYTHING that isn't the US's fault in the world? If we don't do anything, we are criticized (see North Korea), and if we actually try and do something, we get it even worse. Such is the life of the world's most powerful nation. Nationalistic penis envy can be a terrible thing.

[Typhoid]

They were killed so that Saddam could send a message: Anyone can be killed at any time.




He wasnt trying to say that anyone can be killed at anytime. He might have been making a statement against traitors, or Martyrs. ( im not standing up for him to get it straight, because i dont believe in his killing people to test weapons and whatnot)

In the U.S., if you are a traitor or a Martyr, you might not get killed, but the punishment is a long jail sentance. Different countries have different ways of doing things.

ex. In the U.S. you get the death penalty for killing someone...."a life for a life"
But in Canada you get a life sentance...and i dont mean life sentance as in 20 years...i mean until the day you die. This is a way harsher and more civilized way of acting in this case..but thats just my opinion..

And please do explain why this is a racist remark...because i dont see it as racist, its the truth. Because you said it was racist...and i dont see how...


You see, that country is a mess anyways, it's devided by 3 major ethnicities that hate each other. How can you make it work? A brutal dictator might be the only solution.

[GameMaster]

You shouldn't let yourself get ill over the U.S. media. You just need to remember that it's a job like any other that people do to put food on their tables. Invest your time in something else like solving a math problem that hasn't been solved yet, or dedicate your mind to an area of science that needs more attention.

[Typhoid]

Ok then, as the Math whiz you are GM....whats the square root of 1,000,000? That should keep you busy for a while...heh heh heh...

[TheGame]

Ok then, as the Math whiz you are GM....whats the square root of 1,000,000? That should keep you busy for a while...heh heh heh...

Next time try giving him a hard problem... if you think that is hard well, :lol:

[Professor S]

You shouldn't let yourself get ill over the U.S. media. You just need to remember that it's a job like any other that people do to put food on their tables. Invest your time in something else like solving a math problem that hasn't been solved yet, or dedicate your mind to an area of science that needs more attention.

I would if the media wasn't constantly shaping the opinions of the general population. The media is a very powerful tool, and should be debinked on a regular basis.

Typhoid, Saddam wasn't making a statement against traitors. I have studied this event and have seen the footage of him laughing while smoking a cigar while the names were read. Bath (sp?) Party loyalists were named as well as memebers of other parties. His statement was that he will control you and do what he wants under penalty of death.

And the comment was borderline racist because saying that arabs can't accept democracy and stop fighting one another is the same as saying all blacks like fried chicken and all italians are connected to the mob. It is a gross generalization and an ignorant one at that. Tens of thousands of arabs have left their homelands yearning to get away from the totalitarian regimes that they lived under for years and have managed to live peacefully with not only other muslim sects but Christians as well.

You have to remember that there has never been a true democracy in the Middle East... NEVER. We can't expect people to just sit up and say "Hey! That sounds great! Lets do it even though we have no idea what that is!". You have to expect a good amount of xenophobia, especially in the beginning. Change is frightening.

*realizes he went off on a tangent*

Sorry about that,

[TheGame]

I would if the media wasn't constantly shaping the opinions of the general population.
That's what I can't stand about the Media too... they shape fals opinions of the general population. When I see some BS on like that I just turn it off, I can't even watch it anymore. I when they drag on and on about certain subjects that are irrelevant then don't give things that matter the time of day.

[Typhoid]

The Strangler...NHF...but i got a totally different thing from what Nitram said. I took it as they have religious differences and wouldnt agree anyways...i dont agree with the dictator ship thing, and can only hope he was trying to be funny..But i agree that the dont and never will get along. The have different beliefs, and are constantly being brought up/raised in the same ways as the past.

Maybe all the Shiites really need is a McDonalds...give them a taste of the western civilization..hoo hoo hoooo..zing

[Jason1]

Okay my views:

What our soldiers did to them obviously violates the Geneva Convention and shouldnt have happened. Did it surprise me? HELL NO. But it still shouldnt have happened. We're suppoused to be better than that. We dont do those kinds of things. At the same time, I dont theink the soldiers that did it should be punished as much as some might say. I mean if I saw one of them bastards kill one of my friends, I dont know what Id do.

[gekko]

Just a quick note, at the moment, I have no access to a TV, and limited access to the internet. I don't get to see much of the news, but from what I've seen...

This is just a political mess. Oh no, an Iraqi had some wires strapped to his hand, God forbid. Unless they actually shocked the guy, they did nothing wrong. Are we honestly going to count-martial soldiers on the account of scaring the enemy? Maybe next time our MPs shouldn't be allowed to point weapons at the enemy, just in case they get scared and think they are going to be shot. You know, why even carry weapons?

And some naked Iraqi with a female around. You know, in the Arabic culture, that is really degrading. Then again, he has a sandbag over his head, he can't anyway.

Someone needs to chew their ass for being stupid enough to take pictures. As for the court-martial, yes, send them to court-martial, tell the media they're being sent to the brig, and the next day get them back on the job. Their only crime was stupidity, and that's a stretch, even for Article 134.

[Jonbo298]

When you send youg men to a foreign country, you know 100% there are going to be complete idiots. They think that "oh we can do whatever we want because we are Americans and because I'm in the military and think no one will care on what I do".

But if they violated laws, prosecute their asses and get them the hell out of the country. I dont care what country you are, but if your troops violate international laws, you deserve to get bit in the ass.

Strangler, do you ever make a post thats less then 2 paragraphs long?:p

[The Duggler]

I thought it was spelled Shiite :unsure:

Chiite is in french, I mix it up often, just like Irak is spelled Iraq in french.

And Strangler, you talk like you know the absolute truth, who knows if that information is 100% accurate or not. Why wouldn't that be some propaganda, as much as what the US media are doing with that prisonner story?

While I don't agree with what the US did to encourage the rebellion, are you really implyin that its the US's fault there have been 400,000 bodies found in mass graves in Iraq so far? If thats the case, is there ANYTHING that isn't the US's fault in the world? If we don't do anything, we are criticized (see North Korea), and if we actually try and do something, we get it even worse. Such is the life of the world's most powerful nation. Nationalistic penis envy can be a terrible thing. Did I say it was your fault? No! But your constant implication in foreign countries certainly don't help, as we can see right now. And don't give me that "the world doesn't know what it wants the US to do, they're never happy" crap. As if you listen to the world anyways. You do what you want when you want and that's it. People bring north korea on the table, not because they want you to do something about it, but as an argument to why the invasion in Irak is not justified.

This is just a political mess. Oh no, an Iraqi had some wires strapped to his hand, God forbid. Unless they actually shocked the guy, they did nothing wrong. Talk about banalazing something.

I heard on the news that they were also sodomizing them with broom sticks, but that's not wrong either, right?

[Professor S]

Did I say it was your fault? No!

Yeah, but you may as well have come out and said it.

But your constant implication in foreign countries certainly don't help, as we can see right now. And don't give me that "the world doesn't know what it wants the US to do, they're never happy" crap. As if you listen to the world anyways. You do what you want when you want and that's it. People bring north korea on the table, not because they want you to do something about it, but as an argument to why the invasion in Irak is not justified.

Are you kidding me? The US has cow-towed to the UN for years, playing the old guard's 800 pound Gorilla only getting militarily involved whenever the UN saw fit. The US had the BEG the UN to get involved in Kosovo while tens of thousands of Muslims were being euthenized right next door to Europe. Somalia was a UN effort as was the first Gulf War.

Now the US finally does something it feels it should do, waiting YEARS for the UN to wake up to the fact that Iraq was in FLAGRANT violation of MULTIPLE resolutions, instead of waiting around for the UN to say its OK whenever they felt like it (which they never would since they were making BILLIONS from Iraq while their people suffered and died), and the US is basically condemned for doing so. I'm sorry, but we are a sovreign nation and not just the muscle that does whatever the UN wants us to do.

I don't think we should have to wait around while OTHER countries decide whats good for OUR country. Considering the cladestine nature of the "don't bother us, we won't bother you" deals that many European countries had with terrorist organizations and the billions being made off of the Oil for Food program, why should we consider what they think we should do to protect US?

I'm sorry if we did something that we felt we needed to do for our own best interests. I keep forgetting that until now that was only what every other country did, especially those in the UN.:rolleyes:

But none of this is going to matter. People around the world will continue to hate America simply because we are Americans and are the most powerful nation in the world. We could sit by and do nothing, allow every two bit dictator persecute whomever they wanted, and we would be hated for being isolationist and uncaring, and you KNOW that would happen.

And for the record, if the US went ahead and minded their own business all the time as many believe we should do, you would all be saluting Hitler's grandson right now.

******

But we have gotten WAY off topic. The point of this thread was to point out how the press and political structure has completely lost perspective as to what is going on over in the war. The very fact that humiliation gets precedence over REAL torture and murder of CIVILIANS is awful and inexcusable, and I really don't know how you can logically see it any other way.

[Hero2]

Since I dont know a damn thing about politics ill just put up a nice littel quote.

"countries have neither friends nor allies only intrests"(I cant remeber the real quote or who said it but you get the jist)

witch basicly states that every country is looking out for there own well being.

And it would be nice if the Media did have some respect for there country or some patriotism or at the verrrry least some common ****ing sence

[Crono]

And for the record, if the US went ahead and minded their own business all the time as many believe we should do, you would all be saluting Hitler's grandson right now.



Heheh, either that or we'd (meaning everyone but the US) all be kissing the asses of Communists right now.

[Canyarion]

I don't know how much attention there is for it in the States, but nothing could be enough methinks...

Those people are sick. We western people pretend we're civilized but this shows how good we really are. :mad:

Oh, fire the guy responsible, PLEASE.

[Typhoid]

But none of this is going to matter. People around the world will continue to hate America simply because we are Americans and are the most powerful nation in the world. We could sit by and do nothing, allow every two bit dictator persecute whomever they wanted, and we would be hated for being isolationist and uncaring, and you KNOW that would happen.




No.....most of the world hates you because of the "We should be the police force of the world" mentality most Americans have. Oh nO!!! heaven forbid an american soldier dies..my brother in law is in the English military in Iraq, and he saw his buddy get shot in the face...Was that a travesty or on the news? No...because hes not american. Strangler, the way you act most of the time is why most of the world hates america, taking things as if they are 100% truths. You said you dont like how the Media is doing this...your doing the same basic thing.

Most Americans feel that every little incident to do with war is their business, but the casualties are none of their faults. The war in Iraq was none Americas business, sure Saddam was...but not the rest. So what muslims are killing eachother, it doesnt mean you can bomb the crap out of them over speculation.

And Saddam doesnt have or never did have any Weapons of mass destruction....Bush does.

I've said this before and ill say it again, "War kills many, and produces nothing"

(And Strangler NHF)

[Crono]

What Strangler said in the paragraph you quoted (Typhoid) is true. People will always criticize America. Simply because they're jealous. This is a fact. Even I am jealous that America is the strongest and most influencial (sp) country in the world, and that Canada isn't. If Canada was in the same position that the US was, then everyone would hate us too.

The world is built on war. War is history. We would be nothing without war. I am not saying that War is good, but.. borders will change, people will die, and things will change. This is the world's fate until we kill ourselves over. Live with it. More of the reason to just not care. You don't live in Iraq, right? You're not Arab, right? Who cares? Just be glad you're in Canada, which is a country that is gauranteed to be protected by the US. That's the way I see life anyway.

[Rndm_Perfection]

I would put effort into debating against Typhoid, but since Strangler is obviously doing such a good job... to the point that it hurts to watch Typh get embarassed so, I will decide to limit what I say.


You're wrong.

[mickydaniels]

Someone needs to chew their ass for being stupid enough to take pictures.
That is the exact same thing I thought the first time I heard of these things.

Their only crime was stupidity

Actually, being American and coming in to bring fairness to all aspects of Iraqi life (Saddam tortured his prisoners) kind of makes you look bad if you're going to do something like this and the proceed to take pictures of it.

I never thought the Iraqis captured a chance to be treated fairly anyway. But what's really annoying is the persistence of all the channels, feeling that they need to show these pictures any and every time they get a chance. No wonder they call it the idiot box.

[Professor S]

Oh where to begin with this cherry of a post...

No.....most of the world hates you because of the "We should be the police force of the world" mentality most Americans have. Oh nO!!! heaven forbid an american soldier dies..my brother in law is in the English military in Iraq, and he saw his buddy get shot in the face...Was that a travesty or on the news? No...because hes not american.

Um, how many individual examples of Americans dying do YOU see in the news? Hardly any, unless they played pro football. We get a number at the end of every day, just like you. I am even offended for you to even begin quoting casualties when your nation has NONE. How many bodies are being sent home draped in Canadian flags? How many friends do you have that are in the military and are currently overseas? Where do you get off quoting ANYTHING having to do with body counts? (By the way, I like Canada and I know there are many Canadians that support the US, and I appreciate all of them.)

And speaking as an American, I can say that I respect the English to the highest degree and they are excellent allies and warriors.

Strangler, the way you act most of the time is why most of the world hates america, taking things as if they are 100% truths. You said you dont like how the Media is doing this...your doing the same basic thing.

Except I quote FACTS and debunk the MISTRUTHS and spin that is warping your brain. I pointed out the corruption in the Oil for Food program over a YEAR ago, and now suddenly it comes out and its basically IGNORED by the media.

You on the other hand spew out generalizations and heresay that you probably heard someone else blather without any qualification whatsoever.

Most Americans feel that every little incident to do with war is their business, but the casualties are none of their faults. The war in Iraq was none Americas business, sure Saddam was...but not the rest. So what muslims are killing eachother, it doesnt mean you can bomb the crap out of them over speculation.

I'm glad you feel free to speak for most Americans considering your Canadian, but thats neither here nor there.

12 years of UN resolution violations are not speculation, they are fact. That Iraq trained 9/11 and other terrorists as well as supplying funding for terrorist activities is not speculation, it is fact.

And you keep saying that we bombed the crap out of them, while anyone who paid attention to the war would know that the US made every effort to spare as many civilian facilities as possible, maintain the infrastructure of Bagdad as well as the other cities and avoid civilian casualties. Did you see any carpet bombing going on? Didn't think so.

But that doesn't matter to you because the fiction you've invented pertaining to the war takes precedence over what actually happened. It doesn't matter what the reality of the situation is or what the big picture is, you just want to hear what pats you on the back.

And Saddam doesnt have or never did have any Weapons of mass destruction....Bush does.

Bush has never used them... Saddam did on several occasions.

And by the way that it a perfect example of the gross generalizations you make that sound good but mean NOTHING.

I've said this before and ill say it again, "War kills many, and produces nothing"

I've said it before and I'll say it again: "War kills many and produced only freedom for African slaves, life for Jews during WW2 when they were being slaughtered, the halt and regression of fascist communism, independence of my own nation, etc, etc, etc."

[Canyarion]

Some of you people are really sick. There are things as war rules or something and they tell you that you're not allowed to torture prisoners.
But screw those rules, common sense should hold you from doing sadistic stuff like that. :mad:

If we let our soldiers do things like that... :distress:

[Crono]

I am not saying this in regards to anyone's posts, but just because I really feel like expressing my opinion on the matter.

I know we have freedom of speech in the West, but what really ticks me off is when people (especially.. actually, mainly) in Canada constantly cut down the U.S. and criticize their actions. I won't say any names, but some Canadians on this board are exactly like that.

I honestly feel that Canadians do not deserve to criticize the U.S. Had it not been for America in the first place, we'd probably have been absorbed into the Soviet Empire a long time ago. We rely heavily on the US for our economy. America is where we make our money, where our tourists come from, and who we depend on in times of need. If theres ever a crisis in Canada that requires international assistance, you can be guaranteed that the US will be the first there. We're American basically, seeing as our "culture" is really just American culture.

Yet many people that I know here will turn around and say "Oh I hate those ****ing Americans, what the ****, what the hell do they think they're doing?" and crap like that. They do not deserve that opinion.

So I try to figure out why some people here dislike America, and I can't seem to find the answer. And when you ask them, it's either "Americans are idiots", "Americans are rude", "Americans this", and "Americans that". Opinion maybe, but not enough fact or true reason.

I wish the Canadian government sent troops to Iraq, because if there's any country that should fight along side the U.S., it should be Canada. Sure, maybe we won't be THAT much help (then again, anyone besides Britain in Iraq right now isn't that much help, still good though), but, the U.S. has been a main factor in our country's life and survival, and we can at least owe them support when needed.

So anyway, basically... if you're Canadian, and you have nothing better to do than cut down the U.S., please... just shut up, for the sake of Canada's reputation.

:) :canada:

[Canyarion]

Ah-ah-ah-ah ah-ah ah-ah-ah
Johnny's in America
Low techs at the wheel
Ah-ah-ah-ah ah-ah ah-ah-ah
Nobody needs anyone
They don't even just pretend
Ah-ah-ah-ah ah-ah ah-ah-ah
Johnny's in America

I'm afraid of Americans
I'm afraid of the world
I'm afraid I can't help it
I'm afraid I can't
I'm afraid of Americans
I'm afraid of the world
I'm afraid I can't help it
I'm afraid I can't
I'm afraid of Americans

Johnny's in America
Ah-ah-ah-ah ah-ah ah-ah-ah
Johnny wants a brain
Johnny wants to suck on a Coke
Johnny wants a woman
Johnny wants to think of a joke
Ah-ah-ah-ah ah-ah ah-ah-ah
Johnny's in America
Ah-ah-ah-ah ah-ah ah-ah-ah

I'm afraid of Americans
I'm afraid of the world
I'm afraid I can't help it
I'm afraid I can't
I'm afraid of Americans
I'm afraid of the world
I'm afraid I can't help it
I'm afraid I can't
I'm afraid of Americans

Ah-ah-ah-ah ah-ah ah-ah-ah

Johnny's in America
Johnny looks up at the stars
Johnny combs his hair
And Johnny wants ***** and cars

Johnny's in America, Ah-ah-ah-ah ah-ah ah-ah-ah
Johnny's in America, Ah-ah-ah-ah ah-ah ah-ah-ah

I'm afraid of Americans
I'm afraid of the world
I'm afraid I can't help it
I'm afraid I can't
I'm afraid of Americans
I'm afraid of the world
I'm afraid I can't help it
I'm afraid I can't
I'm afraid of Americans

God is an American
God is an American

I'm afraid of Americans
I'm afraid of the world
I'm afraid I can't help it
I'm afraid I can't
I'm afraid of Americans
I'm afraid of the world
I'm afraid I can't help it
I'm afraid I can't

Yeah, I'm afraid of Americans
I'm afraid of the words
I'm afraid I can't help it
I'm afraid I can't
I'm afraid of Americans

Johnny's an American
Johnny's an American

Johnny's an American, Ah-ah-ah-ah ah-ah ah-ah-ah
Johnny's an American, Ah-ah-ah-ah ah-ah ah-ah-ah
Johnny's an American, Ah-ah-ah-ah ah-ah ah-ah-ah
Johnny's an American, Ah-ah-ah-ah ah-ah ah-ah-ah

[Rndm_Perfection]

Oh man, I downloaded that song like... what, yesterday?

[Typhoid]

heh...ya good song...

And Strangler, i never said that Bush used WMD, just that he had them. I just find it slightly ironic that Bush is getting his panties in a bunch over Weapons of mass destruction, while he could blow the world up with a push of a button? Why have something like that at all? If the Iraqi's used a nuke or something, what are you gonna do? Nuke them back and screw up the world? :p

And i wasnt trying to speak for americans...i forgot to put the word "probably" in there.And i want to say, do you know why there are no (apparent) Canadian casualties? Because for the mostpart we are keeping out of something that isnt our business. I also never said that America tried not to kill civilians, i never said they bombed urban areas.

And about the pictures of the people doing those things to the Iraqis. I just have to sy, what is going through your head when you feel it necessary to put someone on a dog-leash and patrol them around naked?

[Rndm_Perfection]

And Strangler, i never said that Bush used WMD, just that he had them. I just find it slightly ironic that Bush is getting his panties in a bunch over Weapons of mass destruction, while he could blow the world up with a push of a button? Why have something like that at all? If the Iraqi's used a nuke or something, what are you gonna do? Nuke them back and screw up the world? :p

Damned hastily pathetic... and why I'm glad you're not in my nation, let alone a politician.

"getting his panties in a bunch over weapons of mass destruction"

Oh, you couldn't be more accurate about the concern of nuclear warheads and biological warfare. Oh, no, there's no problem with them at all.

Why does the United States of America have nukes? Because USSR started stockpiling with them. USSR was seen as a hostile, and there was no way to know how readily they'd be used. One nation... having enough warheads to destroy all others? The US of A was needed to counterbalance, which is why people like you believe one nuke equals the end of the world; and that belief is exactly what was necessary to keep the war cold.

Nukes don't exactly have the ability to blow up a country... they blow up a 2-mile-ish radius (probably bigger after the "improvements" though). Traditional firebombing, but in larger quanitites, has the same destructive power (in terms of the ability to take out a city). The "big militaries" have the ability to take out a city if they wanted to... but have you seen that happen recently?

If the United States wanted to use a nuke to destroy cities, they would. Obviously, they haven't. If you want an excuse for the Japanese nukes, do some research and read a god damn book or get into a world history class. There are more than enough excuses. And, let's not mention that the same magnitude of damage had been done to Tokyo in firebombings before, but no uproar was heard. Nukes were a new weapon.

Why would we not want hostiles to have a nuke? Why would the police officers not want to have a convict to have an assault rifle? The United States intentions with their nukes have been observed. Who does the US of A hate? Nations that hate the United States. Who's trying to get nukes? Nations that hate the United States. I wonder why in all that is sensible would the United States not want them to have nukes?

Don't throw rocks at the bear... I thought people knew why that sign was at the zoo. The bear's just doing his business.

[Typhoid]

So are you comparing the United states to the Police, and the other countries as Convicts...or is the United States thr bear? im confused..


Maybe the "Hostile" countries want Nukes for the same reason America does. To protect themselves against hostiles. Im saying maybe, so dont reem me out on this one, im not saying every nation that has nukes will not use them on their own people, im not saying the cold war should have gone on longer, or shorter.

And how would me being an American change anything? You said your glad im not in your nation...i dont see how that is relevent to anything either. Since you said that then im glad your not in MY nation, let alone a politician. I wouldnt want Canada to be filled up with nukes and whatnot.

And im not trying to portray hate amongst America the country or its people, i have no problem with it or them. Its just a select few people i dont like, by the way they act. Such as is in other country's and my own.

(And the zoo signs in Canada say dont feed the bear...you can throw rocks at it all you want..its just common sense most people ,ie. "not me" have.)

And if you were referring to America as a Bear......i think Canada would probably be a Duck....or a Racoon...And if America was the Police then i think Canada would be the Cameraman from COPS...

[Bond]

Its just a select few people i dont like, by the way they act. Such as is in other country's and my own.

Yes, but America is targeted more often than "those countries" because we are the only world power. So you can understand how it becomes rather tiresome to hear this same thing over and over again.

[Typhoid]

because we are the only world power.
:confused: :confused: :confused:

i wouldnt go as far to say that America is the only world power....maybe the only Major world power...

[Crono]

:confused: :confused: :confused:

i wouldnt go as far to say that America is the only world power....maybe the only Major world power...

US not the only world power? No offense... but are you on crack? Name ONE country that can match the US.

[Crono]

Sorry for the double post, but let's see:
China - large numbers, but they're really weaker than you think. Besides, once their government falls it'll all be gone.
Russia - LOL. No comment.
India - Meh, they're not bad. Worse than China, but still good. Not many technological advancements here. They have nukes however.
Britain - They're small. Not as big and as advanced as the US.

The U.S. is the super power. The technology it's army has is well beyond any other army in the world.

[Typhoid]

Japan?...and are you solely basing this on military or something?....and ya....rofl at Russia


(and just think how much better the American economy would/could be if they cut off a few "bucks" a year from military and put it into other things, like school, or healthcare..)

[Crono]

Japan is nothing. They have potential but their constitution limits their abilities, by a long shot. When we think of Japan, we think of cutesy anime characters, nothing "strong" about that.

And yes this is based on current military power.

In fact, Japan is so weak right now, I'd go as far as saying that Canada would probably have a good chance at winning if they both faced each other without other armies joining in.

[Bond]

(and just think how much better the American economy would/could be if they cut off a few "bucks" a year from military and put it into other things, like school, or healthcare..)
We've already been over this... 3.2% of our GDP is spent on the military. North Korea is 33.9% and China is 4.3%.

[Rndm_Perfection]

(and just think how much better the American economy would/could be if they cut off a few "bucks" a year from military and put it into other things, like school, or healthcare..)

And just think how much better America would be if it didn't continually pump the world with aid... yes, aid... some loans, but indeed aid.

The United States would be a lot better if it shut out the rest of the world, sat in its corner, and made its people happy... yes, and to further make its people happy, it'd cut off immigration. Our military would be downsized...

And what happens then? The United States and all of its allies get invaded. Oh, but not before all of the nations cry out that the US of A is hoarding its riches.

Read the Bum thread if you want to see people's sympathy for those who genuinely have it bad.

[Typhoid]

Bond...i wasnt comparing Americas GDP to other countries for military spending...it was philisophical..And actually when i think of Japan i think of DDR and crazy technology stuff..And no Canada couldnt even beat Japan..what are we going to do...we have no guns, the best we have is plastic forks, why do ou think our beer is so strong, so if anyone invades us and drinks, they'll be too pi**ed to remember what they are doing. Canada has virtually no military, we put our money into free healthcare.

Get this, our Navy has about 3-4 Submarines ( i think...plz no reeming) and West Edmonton mall...has 2 submarines...man that is one well protected mall..

[Crono]

We have around 24,000 troops. Wow.. 3-4 subs.. who cares? We have a decent amount of carriers and battleships. I admit though, our equipment isn't great but if you even look slightly at Japan's Army... we'd waste them.

[Typhoid]

We have around 24,000 troops. Wow.. 3-4 subs.. who cares? We have a decent amount of carriers and battleships. I admit though, our equipment isn't great but if you even look slightly at Japan's Army... we'd waste them.


But they would invent some kind of Mega-car-dinosaur that shoots bullets and plays MP3's...and it would probably run on Hydrogen, or the thoughts of little children..

(And it was kinda my point on who cares for the 3-4 sub thing) :p

[Rndm_Perfection]

And the validity of this arguement wanes...

[Professor S]

Wow, glad to see some people come and get my back while I was at work. Maybe the ignorant left-wing catch phrase sprewers don't run this board after all.

Most of the points have been well said, so I'll just comment on one point...

Typhoid, your comments about nukes are pretty much without any form of historical perspective and are based on the same principles as you argument against war. "War is Bad" so therefore "Nukes are Bad". You also commented on how you're glad that Canada doesn't have any nukes.

There is a difference between "evil" and a "necessary evil". I'll explain what I mean since you seem to have a hard time absorbing a lot of the information we've shared on this thread:

No one is glad that there are thousands of Nukes in the world, but you also have to remember that they weren't just made because the US felt like have a world ending arsenal on hand. At the end of WW2 Russia was an "ally" but a very dubious one at that. Stalin killed more peopel than Hitler ever did and ran his country with an iron fist, but for the purposes of the war he was necessary to do business with. After the war ended relations immediately went in the crapper because Russia decided to keep much of the land that they had driven over on the way to Berlin.

Russia then developed Nukes and showed itself to be expansionist both militarily and politically. All eyes were on Alaska for a long time (thats right next to Canada, right?) This was the start of the Cold War, which in the early years was a VERY scary time in the world. My parents remember driving into Philly during the Cuban Missile Crisis because they wanted to die immediately if we were nuked by Russia, and not suffer the fallout. Thousands of shelters were built and there were instructional films shown IN SCHOOLS that told you what to do in the case of a nuclear attack.

THATS how close we came during Kennedy's tenure and thats what caused nuclear proliferation.

It wasn't until the Reagan administration came up with the brilliant idea of bankrupting the USSR to finally end the Cold War that Americans truly felt at ease. But unfortunately we were left with the stockpiles remaining after the Cold War ended from the MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) philosophy of avoiding a shooting war. And by the way, Nukes are being torn apart by the US, and no new ones are being made. But if you were to listen to liars and propoganda artists like Michael Moore you would never know that.

But as a Canadian you should be GLAD that the US had all of those nuclear weapons at that time. We had them so wouldn't have to. The US being your neighbor kept your country safe for 40 some years from USSR attack, and YES you would have been the first to go down because you would have been in the way of them getting at US. In fact, Canada would have been the battlefield of one of the most brutal wars in history if America decided to not stockpile weapons like Russia did.

Just keep that in mind.

[Typhoid]

Wow...thanks for that Strangler...and once again you come through with a history lesson nobody asked you to provide..I knew all of that, im not a complete idiot.

Im the same as you, i'll argue my points until the other guy gives up, but its a problem, cuz both of us have seperate views, and are totally stubborn.

So i'll be the bigger man and back down.

(And about the Canada being the battlefield thing....how are you 100% cetain that Canada would be it? Who did you ask? The Russians? The Pentagon? didnt think so.)

[Crono]

But as a Canadian you should be GLAD that the US had all of those nuclear weapons at that time. We had them so wouldn't have to. The US being your neighbor kept your country safe for 40 some years from USSR attack, and YES you would have been the first to go down because you would have been in the way of them getting at US. In fact, Canada would have been the battlefield of one of the most brutal wars in history if America decided to not stockpile weapons like Russia did.

Just keep that in mind.

That's exactly the reason why I support the U.S. in times like these.

(And about the Canada being the battlefield thing....how are you 100% cetain that Canada would be it? Who did you ask? The Russians? The Pentagon? didnt think so.)

If you were the USSR, would you rather:
a) Sail across the Pacific, with many American naval bases in your path
b) Sail across the Atlantic, with NATO naval bases along the way
c) Or... use Canada as a landing point. You sail across the Arctic Ocean...by FAR less sea distance.

Any country would be out of it's mind to choose either a or b, which is why radar stations were built in Arctic Canada.
What do you have to say about that?

[Typhoid]

I still say he was trying to point it out as a fact, when its just "option 'c'"....You cant point things out as a fact if they never have happened, unless you have 100% proof. And Strangler, im not talking proof as in one of your multi-paragraph responses to why America is great, i mean real proof.

You also say Canada would be the first to go down..where is your proof, and dont give me more heresy, i want proof. Give me links to websites where you reasearched your argument. Truly you must have some, or else you would just be lying, right? thats what i thought.

Saying something as a fact when your, or nobody else is 100% certain is blatently ignorant. And you guys (nhf) cant give it up because all of you are stubborn, so you have to get the last word in on "why your right" and "Why others views are wrong". You cant stand it that someone else in the world has different views than you do.

And stateing things in a 5-6 paragraph response wont change my mind, of course i have different views, of course im not the best supporter of what the U.S. does, because ive been raised not to be. I cant change that, nor can you. I doubt if you grew up in France, that you would be supporting America as you are right now. Its all personal opinion.

So my friends hold your heads up high, you have succeeded in winning an argument over the internet with your bullsh*t prowess. You should be proud of yourselfs that you dont give others respect for their views. Pat yourselves on the back mon ami, this is a special day for us all.

[Crono]

Some of your "views" and opinions are not based out of any fact, (ie. the world power thing), instead, you say what you think is right, without doing any research to support your opinions.

I'd like to keep in mind that Strangler has always had facts, and what he says is true (from what I've seen), because, anyone who's studied 20th century history would know that. But the anti-US people never have accountable facts... just thoughts spewed out of the head.

But anyway, it is time to end this pointless argument.

[Typhoid]

I agree, after this im done...and Crono..i admitted i dont use facts, but i havent seen any of stranglers facts. Sure you can say he has them, but it doesnt work...wait lets see.." Im King of the world.."..strange,....i said it....but its not true...wierd huh..He hasnt posted one link with facts based on what he has been saying. So pretty much hes down at the level with me, where your saying what you think is right.

When HE posts relevent links to sites that prove all of his points, then i'll agree, but i still wont believe in what he is saying.