The Passion of Jesus Christ

[Crash]

This is going to be a thread about the upcoming movie: the passion of jesus christ. THis is the one that mel gibson is directing and has been getting so much flack for. I totally and completely want to see this movie. About 3 years ago I had a dream about how graphic the end of Jesus' life was, how they beat him and really humiliated him. (I dreamed this after watching jesus christ superstar) I am amazed to see that a movie was made that is almost identical to my dream - kinda creepy actually.

So what are your thoughts on it so far, it comes out Feb 24th I think.

here is the trailer for it if you haven't seen it.

http://www.thepassionofthechrist.com/trailers/w_high.html

here is the much more graphic (but better) trailer:

http://members.shaw.ca/chuglet/the-passion.mov

[Rndm_Perfection]

Mel Gibson's good, and he'll most definately do a good job directing the emotions. As long as the movie has good scripting, it should be more than epic.

[Professor S]

There is a lot of flack about this movie because of how violent it is and how it portrays Christ, but as far as I know it follows the Bible... so I'm not sure what everyone is getting all upset about.

What were you expecting? Christ to jump of the cross at the end of the movie and mow down Pilot with an AK-47 and then do a little soft shoe?

[Jonbo298]

Yeah, people are temperamental to this because its depicted the way it should be. The day before the movie comes out, I want to see some debates on the movie. I might see it just to see how good it is. I'm not as interested in the movie itself, just want to see it since its gonna stir up quite some controversy:D

[Canyarion]

Hm.... What's this movie MORE about? I mean, what IS the passion??

Just graphics is boring.

[The Duggler]

so I'm not sure what everyone is getting all upset about.
Isn't there that whole thing about the movie making the jews look bad or something?

[Canyarion]

Well, the jews WERE kinda bad because they rejected the Messiah. They WERE the people of God, but they didn't accept their new king...

Dunno what the movie tells about them though..

[rottwylor]

I would rather go see Alien Vs. Predator....

[Joeiss]

I cannot wait for this movie.

http://www.hollywoodjesus.com/movie/passion/37_sm.jpg
john 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[1] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.[2] 19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."

[Dark Samurai]

the movie looks pretty freaky....

and i like freaky movies

so i'll see it

[The Germanator]

I would rather go see Alien Vs. Predator....

Ditto...I have no reason to see this Passion of Jesus Christ movie, I can already tell by the trailer that it's not the type of movie I'd wanna see.

[DimHalo]

I really want to see it. For many reasons, I love Jesus, Mel Gibson is good, and the Bible will be interesting to see on film (assuming they've done a good job at following it, which i hear they have).

However, financially it may be a problem. We'll see

[Happydude]

meh...i'll wait for it to come out on DVD

[Professor S]

Isn't there that whole thing about the movie making the jews look bad or something?

Well if people were going to get upset about the movie then they should condemn the Bible as well. In the Bible it is Jews that betray him to his death. But you also have to realize that up to that point there were no Christians, only Jews and those that followed the old Roman religions. So while Jews did betray him, it was the Romans who persecuted and killed him.

You can't re-write the Bible for political correctness, so why should the movie about his life according to the Bible be re-written?

And for the record, I'm not Christian and I don't hold anything against Jews, in fact I'm one of Israel's biggest supporters.

The Bible is what it is, and so should the movie. As the Pope said: "It is as it was."

[TheGame]

+Rep Strangler

I think the movie should be interesting... I don't normally see any movies on the big screen unless it's a sequal to a movie I love. I don't know if I will see this one... chances are someone from church will buy me a ticket anyway :)

[GiMpY-wAnNaBe]

not my type of mive...being an athiest and all.....but its intersting watching mel gibson discard all the controversy as if it were nothing. Although the movie may not interest me much, reprocussions of such events are always fun to watch

[TheSlyMoogle]

I can see a bunch of avid chuch goers getting into the movie, and then a bunch of the old ladies screaming and crying as they beat christ. "Oh my god, I'm so sorry for all that has been done to you Jesus!"

Um yeah count me out of that environment.

[Vampyr]

Although Mel Gibson is quite possibly my favorite Actor ever, I dont think I will watch this. Its not my type of movie, and I consider myself a Christain. Its just not something I like to watch.

After it has been out for a while, and they show it on cable, THEN I will probably watch it. But Im not going to pay money to see it.

[Joeiss]

I can see a bunch of avid chuch goers getting into the movie, and then a bunch of the old ladies screaming and crying as they beat christ. "Oh my god, I'm so sorry for all that has been done to you Jesus!"

Um yeah count me out of that environment.


lol, ya there will probably be many old women holding their rosaries, lol.

But He had to go through all the beatings, then death. I mean, he did die for us after all.

[GameMaster]

I think it's too graphic for me. :unsure:

[Acebot44]

I'm seeing this for sure but I'm not looking forward to reading the subtitles :-o

[GameMaster]

I'm seeing this for sure but I'm not looking forward to reading the subtitles :-o

I believe the movie is in English, isn't it? :confused:

[Ginkasa]

1. Its in Latin
2. There's no subtitles (I don't think).

There story is well known enough that there shouldn't be any problem understanding it, I wouldn't think.


*shrugs and walks away*

[Dyne]

****, I think anyone who has read the bible would know that every passage is messed up. In the first few pages it describes one of the first man's penis being circumcized with a rock picked up off the ground, and it describes how animals are burned to a crisp in holy sacrifice. A father even sacrifices his eldest son, just for God.

I think the only people who are complaining and arguing about it will be the ones who have never studied the bible, or gone to church.

[Rndm_Perfection]

****, I think anyone who has read the bible would know that every passage is messed up. In the first few pages it describes one of the first man's penis being circumcized with a rock picked up off the ground, and it describes how animals are burned to a crisp in holy sacrifice. A father even sacrifices his eldest son, just for God.

I think the only people who are complaining and arguing about it will be the ones who have never studied the bible, or gone to church.

Do you know how oral stories can be changed over time?

Example (and no, it doesn't have to make sense):

"Dyne is a cool guy"
"Dyne is a school fry"
"Dyne is a school bus"
"Dyne is a yellow bus"
"Dyne is a yellowjacket"
"Dyne is a hornet"
"Dyne is horny"
"Dyne is a rapist"
"Dyne is no longer allowed to babysit my children"

It really changes a lot.

[Dyne]

That's right, because we all know Jesus Christ was just slapped on the wrist. "Oh, woe is me."

I really doubt they had to exaggerate anything. We're less of Caveman than we were back then, and look how violent we still can be.

[Professor S]

1. Its in Latin
2. There's no subtitles (I don't think).


1. The Romans speak Latin, but a bastardized "street" version, and the locals speak Aramaic
2. There are subtitles, I saw them in the trailer. Besides, it would be pretty stupid to make a movie in two dead languages that 99.999% of the world don't understand.

[Acebot44]

Didnt they also make it in Hebrew?

[rottwylor]

I've been to catholic schools...CCD...and I still have no desire to see this... partly due to the fact I'm a catholicism survivor... and don't really believe much of the bible

[Rndm_Perfection]

That's right, because we all know Jesus Christ was just slapped on the wrist. "Oh, woe is me."

I really doubt they had to exaggerate anything. We're less of Caveman than we were back then, and look how violent we still can be.

Your comprehension level is sub-par. But, that's ok in some places.

[Joeiss]

A father even sacrifices his eldest son, just for God.



Umm... I believe you are quite mistaken. He was going to sacrifice his son because God asked him to, but then God stopped him when he was about to do it. Moral of the story, God doesn't want human sacrifices.

[One Winged Angel]

****, I think anyone who has read the bible would know that every passage is messed up. In the first few pages it describes one of the first man's penis being circumcized with a rock picked up off the ground, and it describes how animals are burned to a crisp in holy sacrifice. A father even sacrifices his eldest son, just for God.

I think the only people who are complaining and arguing about it will be the ones who have never studied the bible, or gone to church.

I seriously doubt you've even read the bible. All you did was name 2 specific passages and called the whole book messed up. There ARE more than 2 stories in the bible. Even if you don't believe in Jesus Christ, there are some great morals that consist in the book.

[Dyne]

Umm... I believe you are quite mistaken. He was going to sacrifice his son because God asked him to, but then God stopped him when he was about to do it. Moral of the story, God doesn't want human sacrifices.

He was intent on doing so. He would have. I should have put "was ready to" but it's been a long day. But I'm glad somebody noticed it at least.

I seriously doubt you've even read the bible. All you did was name 2 specific passages and called the whole book messed up. There ARE more than 2 stories in the bible. Even if you don't believe in Jesus Christ, there are some great morals that consist in the book.

2 specific passages at the beginning. The book is messed up in terms of modern times. We're forced to adapt it. God's lessons are clear, because some themes are in today's context, such as adultery.

I mean, honestly, you have to agree that Noah living to over 900 years old is quite a bit hard to understand in today's terms. People might have had more dexterity back then; we don't know that. That's "messed up." Jesus' sacrifice was not a cake walk.. it was a ridiculous event in terms of modern morals. They wouldn't force thieves to walk that far with a cross on their back nowadays. Public display of death? No, not anymore. I don't even think they put bags over their heads like they did in France under the guillotine.

[Canyarion]

May I point out the differences between the old testament and the new one? The old one was for the nation of Israel. The new one was made after Jesus death and is for christians.
Jesus said something like "don't follow the old testament anymore, I give you a new one".

So you can't compare the old and new one and say 'bullocks!'

I think that ppl should know what Jesus went trough, but displaying it like this on movie... I dunno :unsure:

BTW every movie has mistakes... I've already seen a few.
You can't nail someone through their hand palms. Because of the weight of the body, the nail would rip through the flesh and the convicted would fall off.
You have to nail through the wrist, so that the bone in the base of your hand holds the weight of you body.

Oh well, minor detail. :)

[The Duggler]

But He had to go through all the beatings, then death. I mean, he did die for us after all.
That's all fine and heroic and all, but what did it changed, or accomplished? Absolutly nothing.

[Professor S]

The pronlem with the Bible is not that it's "messed up" its that its parables are now quite outdated, yet modern Christian religions still attempt to take them literally.

The Bible's message is within the whole of the document, not in specific passages. Those that quote specific passages normally are using the religious text for their own ends and pervert its meaning.

They are moral lessons in which we should strive to live by, not absolute laws that lead to damnation or salvation. The crazy part is that Christianity started out using that ideaology, but has become far more strict and literal over the past 1,500 years.

That's all fine and heroic and all, but what did it changed, or accomplished? Absolutly nothing.

So the birth of Christianity has had no effect on the world in the last 2,000 years?

...

*head explodes from the exposure to sure sheer absurdity*

[Joeiss]

I guess the fact that the year 2004 is in reference to Jesus has no effect on our everyday lives. Jesus changed the world, my friend.


Anyways, here is a review of the movie by Paul Harvey. It contains some little spoilers, but nothing major. It also addresses the fact the Jews are not negatively portrayed in the movie..

Paul Harvey's words:

I really did not know what to expect. I was thrilled to have been invited to a private viewing of Mel Gibson's film "The Passion," but I had also read all the cautious articles and spin. I grew up in a Jewish town and owe much of my own faith journey to the influence.

I have a life long, deeply held aversion to anything that might even indirectly encourage any form of anti-Semitic thought, language or actions. I arrived at the private viewing for "The Passion", held in Washington DC and greeted some familiar faces. The environment was typically
Washingtonian, with people greeting you with a smile but seeming to look beyond you, having an agenda beyond the words.

The film was very briefly introduced, without fanfare, and then the room darkened. From the gripping opening scene in the Garden of Gethsemane, to the very human and tender portrayal of the earthly ministry of Jesus, through the betrayal, the arrest, the scourging, the way of the cross, the encounter with the thieves, the surrender on the Cross, until the final
scene in the empty tomb, this was not simply a movie; it was an encounter, unlike anything I have ever experienced. In addition to being a masterpiece of film-making and an artistic triumph, "The Passion" evoked more deep reflection, sorrow and emotional reaction within me than anything since my wedding, my ordination or the birth of my children. Frankly, I will never be the same.

When the film concluded, this "invitation only" gathering of "movers and shakers" in Washington , DC were shaking indeed, but this time from sobbing. I am not sure there was a dry eye in the place. The crowd that had been glad-handing before the film was now eerily silent. No one could speak because words were woefully inadequate. We had experienced a kind of art that is a rarity in life, the kind that makes heaven touch earth.

One scene in the film has now been forever etched in my mind. A brutalized, wounded Jesus was soon to fall again under the weight of the cross. His mother had made her way along the Via Della Rosa. As she ran to him, she flashed back to a memory of Jesus as a child, falling in the dirt road outside of their home. Just as she reached to protect him from the fall, she was now reaching to touch his wounded adult face. Jesus looked at her with intensely probing and passionately loving eyes (and at all of us through the screen) and said "Behold I make all things new." These are words taken from the last Book of the New Testament, the Book of Revelation.

Suddenly, the purpose of the pain was so clear and the wounds, that earlier in the film had been so difficult to see in His face, His back, indeed all over His body, became intensely beautiful. They had been borne voluntarily for love. At the end of the film, after we had all had a chance to recover, a question and answer period ensued. The unanimous praise for the film, from a rather diverse crowd, was as astounding as the compliments were effusive.
The questions included the one question that seems to follow this film, even though it has not yet even been released. "Why is this film considered by some to be "anti-Semitic?"

Frankly, having now experienced (you do not "view" this film) "the Passion" it is a question that is impossible to answer. A law professor whom I admire sat in front of me. He raised his hand and responded "After watching this film, I do not understand how anyone can insinuate that it even remotely presents that the Jews killed Jesus. It doesn't." He continued "It made me realize that my sins killed Jesus" I agree. There is not a scintilla of anti-Semitism to be found anywhere in this powerful film. If there were, I would be among the first to decry it. It faithfully tells the Gospel story in a dramatically beautiful, sensitive and profoundly engaging way. Those who are alleging otherwise have either not seen the film or have another
agenda behind their protestations.

This is not a "Christian" film, in the sense that it will appeal only to those who identify themselves as followers of Jesus Christ. It is a deeply human, beautiful story that will deeply touch all men and women. It is a profound work of art. Yes, its producer is a Catholic Christian and thankfully has remained faithful to the Gospel text; if that is no longer
acceptable behavior than we are all in trouble. History demands that we remain faithful to the story and Christians have a right to tell it. After all, we believe that it is the greatest story ever told and that its message is for all men and women. The greatest right is the right to hear the truth.

We would all be well advised to remember that the Gospel narratives to which "The Passion" is so faithful were written by Jewish men who followed a Jewish Rabbi whose life and teaching have forever changed the history of the world. The problem is not the message but those who have distorted it and used it for hate rather than love. The solution is not to censor the message, but rather to promote the kind of gift of love that is Mel Gibson's filmmaking masterpiece, "The Passion." It should be seen by as many people as possible. I intend to do everything I can to make sure that is the case. I am passionate about "The Passion." You will be as well. Don't miss it!


I can't wait to see this movie. :)

[rottwylor]

Egads.. who cares?!? None of us were there to prove it did or did not happen in any accurate way whatsoever. The bible has been written and rewritten so many times that things got lost in translation and what not. I think that this is the biggest hoax to hit mankind, and I feel sorry for the zealots that will go see this movie with tissue paper in tow.

[DimHalo]

Why did this thread have to become a bash party? So people have different opinions, some may be wrong, some may be right. But that shouldn't matter. A person should feel free to express their opinion without being bashed for it. And people should be able to have a discussion without throwing insults around. Especially when it comes to a topic as serious as a religion. I think the intent of this thread was to see who was interested in the movie and such.

If I'm wrong someone can correct me. But in general I think it would be good to stop the insults and just stick to facts and opinions.

[rottwylor]

Egads.. who cares?!? None of us were there to prove it did or did not happen in any accurate way whatsoever. The bible has been written and rewritten so many times that things got lost in translation and what not. I think that this is the biggest hoax to hit mankind, and I feel sorry for the zealots that will go see this movie with tissue paper in tow.

Thats my opinion =)

[The Duggler]

So the birth of Christianity has had no effect on the world in the last 2,000 years?
Sure, it did have an effect, but I'm talking about being useful to mankind.

Except being used as an invisible mean of support by the masses, tell me what good, christianity (or any other religions for that matter) has done?

[rottwylor]

Sure, it did have an effect, but I'm talking about being useful to mankind.

Except being used as an invisible mean of support by the masses, tell me what good, christianity (or any other religions for that matter) has done?

Besides war and segregation and political agenda?

[Professor S]

Sure, it did have an effect, but I'm talking about being useful to mankind.

Except being used as an invisible mean of support by the masses, tell me what good, christianity (or any other religions for that matter) has done?

It always amazes me how people can only see the negative in religion at times. Actually it doesn't, because the negative parts have been so well publicized.

Yes, Christianity and religion have inspired much attrocity in the world, but thats when you take apart the last 2,000 years and reduce it to incidents, much like what many pseudo-religious do when they take apart to Bible to put it in self-serving passages.

Looking back in time, Christianity has had more to do with civilizing the world than any other force in history, including the Roman empire. The very morals that we hold dear, that even inspire such contempt for acts condoned by the Church, would not exist of it were not for Christianity or modern religions.

Man is a violent animal. Chaos and anarchy lead to death and hate. Religion has inspired man to love one another outside of mere familial relationships or tribal setting.

Religion is necessary in the world. Without it we would still be in the muck of our own visceral nature.

[BlueFire]

not my type of mive...being an athiest and all
How would atheism have anything to do with watching this movie?

[rottwylor]

I believe that, originally, religion was more of a spirituality thing and was very necessary for the growth of man and civilization. That I agree with (also science too). It inspired people to have morals and (with Hell as a punishment) develope a concious. Unfortunately, I also believe that over time, church and religion became (to a point) pretty corrupt, and abusive of the power they had over followers. Religion became a trojan horse in politics, causing religious wars, sado-masochistic laws, witch hunts, etc. I don't really believe the bible is the word of God (although I believe in a God), but more to do with stories and ("news") articles that teach people to lead a better life, and full of stories to inspire and give us something to believe in. It bothers me that people pick and choose what parts to follow, and then taylor it to fit thier needs. If there is one lesson to learn from the bible, its: Love your neighbor and treat people how you want to be treated. In regards to the movie...I MIGHT rent it eventually... however, no matter how many times you rehash the story.. it's still the same, and I know the ending....also, Mel Gibson sucks

[TheGame]

rottwylor has a point... in his last post. Cept this part:

"I also believe that over time, church and religion became (to a point) pretty corrupt, and abusive of the power they had over followers. Religion became a trojan horse in politics, causing religious wars, sado-masochistic laws, witch hunts, etc."

You can't blame the book for man's tendancies just because man used it as justification... If you are a true christian you follow the words of Jesus, and if everybody honestly in there heart was trying to be like Jesus and followed his teachings no voilence would be justified.

The old testiment is good, but it's teachings as far as morals are irrelevant. One voice in the bible is important, and that who Christians are supposed to model themselves after. If his words have been edited, it would have had to be edited an AWFUL lot to justify violence.

[rottwylor]

You can't blame the book for man's tendancies just because man used it as justification... If you are a true christian you follow the words of Jesus, and if everybody honestly in there heart was trying to be like Jesus and followed his teachings no voilence would be justified.

The old testiment is good, but it's teachings as far as morals are irrelevant. One voice in the bible is important, and that who Christians are supposed to model themselves after. If his words have been edited, it would have had to be edited an AWFUL lot to justify violence.

I honestly don't know if you understood me or not. I wasn't blaming the bible.. I was putting blame on religion and church, who happen to use the bible. And back then, people were so afraid of being heathens and blamed for heresy, that they would have gone to war in the name of God and the bible. No one wanted to go against church and state when it came to religion, and if you did...watch your back. For the matter of words being edited out of the bible.. I don't think it was a matter of being edited. The bible was hand written for centuries, the printed press only came to be a couple hundred years ago. So when you take a book.. rewrite it by hand ( LONG ASS BOOK AT THAT)... and then have to make copies by hand... and do it again... and again... and again... for YEARS... some things tend to get lost. It's like that game where you get a group of people in a circle, and one person whispers a phrase in the persons ear next to him, and when it gets back, the phrase is somewhat skewed. Also, man is a biased creature and likes to cut corners. I think for all intents and purposes, the bible is a postive thing. I just don't think it's being used right. As far as true christians? DON'T get me started on that..ANYWAY... this is about the movie that I won't see... so enough serious talk. WHO WANTS TO SEE ALIEN V. PREDATOR!!!

[Professor S]

Alien vs Predator would rock.

[rottwylor]

Alien vs Predator would rock.

I wonder if that will come to gamecube...

[The Germanator]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0370263/

During an archaeological expedition in Antartica, a team of scientists and archaeologists find themselves caught up in a battle between a hive of aliens and five teenage predators. Soon, the team realise that only one species can win

Holy ****, five teenage Predators, that sounds incredible. :D

[jeepnut]

I honestly don't know if you understood me or not. I wasn't blaming the bible.. I was putting blame on religion and church, who happen to use the bible. And back then, people were so afraid of being heathens and blamed for heresy, that they would have gone to war in the name of God and the bible. No one wanted to go against church and state when it came to religion, and if you did...watch your back. For the matter of words being edited out of the bible.. I don't think it was a matter of being edited. The bible was hand written for centuries, the printed press only came to be a couple hundred years ago. So when you take a book.. rewrite it by hand ( LONG ASS BOOK AT THAT)... and then have to make copies by hand... and do it again... and again... and again... for YEARS... some things tend to get lost. It's like that game where you get a group of people in a circle, and one person whispers a phrase in the persons ear next to him, and when it gets back, the phrase is somewhat skewed. Also, man is a biased creature and likes to cut corners. I think for all intents and purposes, the bible is a postive thing. I just don't think it's being used right. As far as true christians? DON'T get me started on that..ANYWAY... this is about the movie that I won't see... so enough serious talk. WHO WANTS TO SEE ALIEN V. PREDATOR!!!

People back then were different than they are today. They didn't cut corners. These were sacred scriptures which they knew by memory, down to the last word. (You would too after copying them so many times.) Thus, they were able to check themselves. They wouldn't have alowed errors because they would have been ashamed to. The Bible has remained surprisingly accurate. Much more so than you give it credit for.

[rottwylor]

man is flawed today.. he was yesterday... and he will be today. unfortunately through the many different translations the bible went through from different languages (aramaic), there will be a loss in translation. It's a given, some languages don't have the same words that another language has, and will then have to compensate... then it gets translated again...and the same thing happens. I doubt that the people translating and transcribing the bible were flawless in doing so. Since we can't go back in time to check thier personal demons and integrity, we can't assume that they wouldn't allow any errors. So are opinions stay the same.. =)

[Koopa]

Here's the problem with the movie from what I've heard.

First of all, it was ONE jew who betrayed jesus, one of his apostles.

secondly, it was the ROMANS who killed jesus, not the jews

thirdly, only one out of the multiple gospels blames the jews for the death of jesus. in the 60's or 70s the Vatican 2 renounced its policy of blaming the jews for jesus' death. mel gibson's extremist point of view ignores this step forward and continues to blame jews.

from what i've heard, the movie has jews spitting on jesus, and has one jew actually punch him in the face.

fourthly, the movie was condemned by the Anti-defamation league as being anti-semetic

at a time when there's enough anti-semetism in the world as it is, with no sign of it decreasing, this movie is the last thing the world needs.

fifthly, apparently gibson associates some sickly, evil looking character symbolizing satan with the jews throught the movie.

mel gibson will not get a cent of my money, and the only way i will see this film is if i pirate it online.

[DimHalo]

you make an interesting point koopa... if all that is true, i'm sorrry to hear it... but i'll probably still see it

[Ginkasa]

I don't know. As much as there is a lot of Anti-semitiems in the world, there are a lot of people who make bigs deals out of small things.

There's been a review of a guy who was raised with Jewish people (it never said he himself was Jewish however) and that he didn't see anything anti-semitic about it.

You might want to see it yourself, Koopa, before you start listening to all of the people who spout off anti-semitism. Its like listening to all those soccer mom's who say Pokemon is Satanic and give all these "reasons" that are either not true or greatl exagerated.


*shrugs and walks away*

[DimHalo]

so many interesting points, i'll have to do a little of my own research about this...

[Blackmane]

In general nowadays, you can count on hearing the complaints on something more than the positive. I think the movie is going to be a good movie and, from what I hear, accurate to the Bible.

Of course the Jews are going to say its anti-semetic because they don't even believe Jesus to be what the Bible says he is. Anything having to do with the life of Jesus raises some arguement among some people because, in today's society, Jesus is one of the most controversial historical figures ever.

[Koopa]

In general nowadays, you can count on hearing the complaints on something more than the positive. I think the movie is going to be a good movie and, from what I hear, accurate to the Bible.

Of course the Jews are going to say its anti-semetic because they don't even believe Jesus to be what the Bible says he is. Anything having to do with the life of Jesus raises some arguement among some people because, in today's society, Jesus is one of the most controversial historical figures ever.

the fact that its about jesus has little to do with jewish reactions to the movie. does anyone btich about Jesus Christ, Superstar, the musical by andrew lloyd webber? not much, because hey, its not anti-semetic, it doesn't depict a satan-like character hangin out with the jews, and i don't think it has a jew smacking jesus in the face.

again, this movie is not according to the mainstream interpretation of the bible, just a fringe extremist group that ignores the decisions of the Vatican, and that mel gibson and his father subscribe to.

by the way, gibson's father has publicly denied that the holocaust occurred.

[Canyarion]

Who says that the Vatican has authority? I mean.... they're as hypocrite as I dunno what... :unsure:

[Professor S]

the fact that its about jesus has little to do with jewish reactions to the movie. does anyone btich about Jesus Christ, Superstar, the musical by andrew lloyd webber? not much, because hey, its not anti-semetic, it doesn't depict a satan-like character hangin out with the jews, and i don't think it has a jew smacking jesus in the face.

again, this movie is not according to the mainstream interpretation of the bible, just a fringe extremist group that ignores the decisions of the Vatican, and that mel gibson and his father subscribe to.

by the way, gibson's father has publicly denied that the holocaust occurred.

Koopa, you've condemned this movie before even seeing it. All accounts by those that have SEEN it, say that it is not anti-semetic in the least. Lets see how it turns out before flipping out.

[Blackmane]

the fact that its about jesus has little to do with jewish reactions to the movie. does anyone btich about Jesus Christ, Superstar, the musical by andrew lloyd webber? not much, because hey, its not anti-semetic, it doesn't depict a satan-like character hangin out with the jews, and i don't think it has a jew smacking jesus in the face.

again, this movie is not according to the mainstream interpretation of the bible, just a fringe extremist group that ignores the decisions of the Vatican, and that mel gibson and his father subscribe to.

by the way, gibson's father has publicly denied that the holocaust occurred.

You say that The Passion of the Christ doesn't depict what actually happens in the Bible, but I would have to say it is a lot closer to reality than something like Jesus Christ, Superstar with Jesus breaking into Broadway singing every 10 minutes. Face the reality, Jesus was very controversial and near the end of his life, he was not the most liked person around.

You say all these things in the movie symbolize anti-semetic attitudes from Mel Gibson, yet you have not seen the movie, and you have completely ignored sources that say the movie does not have anti-semetic messages. You are believing your bias sources without looking at the other side of the fence. I have to wait and see and make my own opinion as to whether it was overly negative towards Jews or not. I suggest you do the same.

BTW- as Canyarion said, The Vatican doesn't decide what is allowed in movies, so that point is meaningless. And going back to biblical accuracy, it was the Romans who arrested Jesus and put him to trial, but it was the Jews who condemned him to die on the cross. In fact, Pilate tried to get him off free, but the people chose a filthy murderer over Jesus.

[rottwylor]

gosh... if the bible wasn't a hoax, I'd actually care if this movie was accurately made or not.

=)

[Professor S]

gosh... if the bible wasn't a hoax, I'd actually care if this movie was accurately made or not.

=)

You should have interest whether you believe in it or not. Christianity is a major force in the world, larger than the United States or any other nation. Understanding it better will help in understanding the world better.

[rottwylor]

You should have interest whether you believe in it or not. Christianity is a major force in the world, larger than the United States or any other nation. Understanding it better will help in understanding the world better.

I think it's a statement true of any and all religions.

In regards to a hollywood film made by Mel Gibson....eh... I'll pass, lol

[Koopa]

Koopa, you've condemned this movie before even seeing it. All accounts by those that have SEEN it, say that it is not anti-semetic in the least. Lets see how it turns out before flipping out.

false. as i said before, ADL representatives saw it and condemned it as being anti-semetic, saying its depictions of jews were,"painful to watch". In fact, most of the controversy comes from people who saw it. Seeing as its impossible for ME to see it, i'll base my conclusions on what others who HAVE seen it have said. If, when it comes out, more people say its fine, then i'll check it out and judge it for myself.

bottom line: based on Gibson's beliefs and the beliefs of his father, plus the information gathered by the ADL, and from what i have heard personally, i'm making the assumption that it is a biased, untrue, ultra extremist view of events that was abandoned by the Church years ago.

[rottwylor]

bottom line: based on Gibson's beliefs and the beliefs of his father, plus the information gathered by the ADL, and from what i have heard personally, i'm making the assumption that it is a biased, untrue, ultra extremist view of events that was abandoned by the Church years ago.

I agree... plus... MEL GIBSON??? C'mon... Mr.Lethal Weapon needs to pack it up and get out of the religious movie genre

[Professor S]

Oh, I'm sorry... every but the ADL said its not anti-semetic. My bad :rolleyes:

[rottwylor]

This thread is making me want to see the movie less and less... which is pretty odd since I had no desired to see it in the first place. =\ Besides, don't you all know that movies are rarely (if ever) as good as the book?

[Blackmane]

This thread is making me want to see the movie less and less... which is pretty odd since I had no desired to see it in the first place. =\ Besides, don't you all know that movies are rarely (if ever) as good as the book?

Yeah, what he said.

Read the Bible!!

[Crash]

This thread is making me want to see the movie less and less... which is pretty odd since I had no desired to see it in the first place. =\ Besides, don't you all know that movies are rarely (if ever) as good as the book?


pffffff.... ha ha ha....that was funny :)

but forrest gump was was better as a movie than as a book....

[rottwylor]

pffffff.... ha ha ha....that was funny :)

but forrest gump was was better as a movie than as a book....

...hmpf... I'll give you that one...

[fingersman]

Here's the problem with the movie from what I've heard.

First of all, it was ONE jew who betrayed jesus, one of his apostles.

I don't see a prob there, Judas betrayed Jesus.


secondly, it was the ROMANS who killed jesus, not the jews

Well again I don't see the problem there, the Jews did want to kill Jesus but it's the Roman soldiers that actually carried out the execution




thirdly, only one out of the multiple gospels blames the jews for the death of jesus. in the 60's or 70s the Vatican 2 renounced its policy of blaming the jews for jesus' death. mel gibson's extremist point of view ignores this step forward and continues to blame jews.

from what i've heard, the movie has jews spitting on jesus, and has one jew actually punch him in the face.


Well I wouldn't really say Mel Gibson is blaming anyone (atleast I would hope not) but no one can deny that the Jews played a major part Jesus's death, this is a fact.


fifthly, apparently gibson associates some sickly, evil looking character symbolizing satan with the jews throught the movie.

Well again I don't have a problem with this either, I don't know if you ever read the new testament, you'd would realise that the leaders of the religion laws and pratice were very ungodly, and if your not of God then obviously............

I don't know if you read your Bible or not but read the first 5 books in the new testament and then make your own judgement based on what you read and let that be the determinant of if you watch the movie or not.

[Canyarion]

+rep. :D

[Koopa]

I don't see a prob there, Judas betrayed Jesus.
yes..the problem is that gibson is carrying this guilt to the jewish people


Well again I don't see the problem there, the Jews did want to kill Jesus but it's the Roman soldiers that actually carried out the execution
according to one of the gospels. as far as i know, the rest of the jews thought he was just some new-agey teacher. but admittedly i haven't studied the story as much as i should have.



Well I wouldn't really say Mel Gibson is blaming anyone (atleast I would hope not) but no one can deny that the Jews played a major part Jesus's death, this is a fact.
i think showing the jews spitting on jesus, havin the jews throwing stuff at jesus, and having a jew smack jesus gives a pretty clear intention of where mr. gibson intends to place the blame


Well again I don't have a problem with this either, I don't know if you ever read the new testament, you'd would realise that the leaders of the religion laws and pratice were very ungodly, and if your not of God then obviously............

from what i've heard, apparently this "guy" isnt a jew...
the only thing i know about "ungodly" practices is alot of stuff about sacrifices. i think often a calf's blood would be sprinkled on worshippers, and wierd stuff like that.

on a cool side note...on Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement, the High Cohen (preist) would enter the Holy of Holies where the tablet with the ten commandents were contained in the Temple before it was destroyed...and he would pronounce the true name of god, whatever that may be...

a story i heard is that the lesser preists would tie a rope around the high priest's ankle, so that, if god struck him down in the holy of holies, they wouldn't have to go in there to get him out, they'd just pull the rope:D


I don't know if you read your Bible or not but read the first 5 books in the new testament and then make your own judgement based on what you read and let that be the determinant of if you watch the movie or not.
unfortunaltely, i have not read teh new testament, although i've read and studied a lot of the tanach.

again. i will repeat for those that haven't understood this yet. i haven't seen the movie. i am basin my judgements on reports made by an organization made to combat racism, my own personal knowledge, and knowledge that i've read from various sources. judging from this, i can safely bet that this will be an unfair, extremist view of the events leading up to jesus' death. if they weren't, i'm relatively sure that they would be the mainstream views of the Church. however, they are NOT the views of the church. i think the vatican decided to abandon this biased view of jesus' death for a reason

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oh, I'm sorry... every but the ADL said its not anti-semetic. My bad
your mean-spirited sarcasm is unnecessary

here's a quick counterpoint
http://www.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/Movies/08/13/gibson.passion/index.html

http://www.ncsj.org/AuxPages/061303JWeek_MGibson_Passion.shtml


we could sit here and post links about who says what all day, thats not the point.

don't get me wrong, i dont think gibson is being malicious, and i admire his faith...however, regardless of whether i agree or disagree with a belief, im afraid this movie could inflame the antisemitic minority.

[DeathsHand]

I figure I'll weigh in on this topic... I skimmed over the last page of the discussion and this is what I made of it...

Jew = Booo to this movie!
Other people = Lighten up...

So let me ask this question:
How many NON-jews do you have in YOUR cabinet, Koopa?

I'd rather just be all sarcastic and stuff than get involved in another religious debate...

[Ginkasa]

Groups that are trying to protect against racism and stuff like that are usually over-sensitive and some actually become prejudiced toward their race (as in, favorably; like this black guys was joking and said some racist remark [toward whites] and another white guy, joking along, said a racist joke [toward blacks]; white guy was sued; black guy went scotch free).

Anyway, the people against anti-Semitism are overly sensitive and probably exaggerating tons of stuff. It says in the CNN article, only one guy from ADL has actually seen the movie. And there have been several Jewish and Jewish supporters who say the movie is great (also in the CNN article).

Although you may not believe Gibson is being malicious or purposefully slaming Jews, you are condemning the movie before you've seen. See it before you start calling it anti-semitic. If you refuse to see it, don't bash it. It may very well be anti-semitic, but you have no right to call it that if you haven't seen it.

You say you're basing your opinion off of sources you've read, but you obviously haven't read enough. There are plenty of people who say it isn't anti-semitic, probably even more than what you can find considering that controversy sells more papers than not.

Listen to both sides of the argument. Don't base your opinion by just listening or paying attention to one side. Most of all: see the movie.


*shrugs and walks away*

[Koopa]

I figure I'll weigh in on this topic... I skimmed over the last page of the discussion and this is what I made of it...

Jew = Booo to this movie!
Other people = Lighten up...

So let me ask this question:
How many NON-jews do you have in YOUR cabinet, Koopa?

I'd rather just be all sarcastic and stuff than get involved in another religious debate...
An 18-page report sponsored by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops and the Anti-Defamation League warned that the film, slated for release next year, could trigger increased anti-Semitism by reinvigorating the ancient Christian charge of deicide — that Jews were responsible for killing Jesus — which is believed to have caused the persecution and killing of Jews for two millennia.




Although you may not believe Gibson is being malicious or purposefully slaming Jews, you are condemning the movie before you've seen. See it before you start calling it anti-semitic. If you refuse to see it, don't bash it. It may very well be anti-semitic, but you have no right to call it that if you haven't seen it.

for the third and final time...i am basing my opinion on the information available to me seeing as IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR ME TO WATCH THE MOVIE YET. if i hear it is a good movie from reviewers when it is released in theaters, i guess i'll go see it.

[Joeiss]

Koopa, Jesus was looked upon as a criminal, that is why he was put to death. Prisoners were treated very, very poorly in those times, and it was common to "disrespect" them by abusing them. So, the Jews spat on him, who cares? It was what everybody was doing then.

[Canyarion]

...and he would pronounce the true name of god, whatever that may be...
JHWH.
'Jehova' or 'Jahweh'.
:)

[Professor S]

Koopa, Jesus was looked upon as a criminal, that is why he was put to death. Prisoners were treated very, very poorly in those times, and it was common to "disrespect" them by abusing them. So, the Jews spat on him, who cares? It was what everybody was doing then.

I also believe that a common practice of putting a criminal to death was a public stoning.

Listen, I fear that all people are doing is getting riled up over nothing. The PUBLIC condemned Christ, according to the bible, and the PUBLIC happened to be jewish as there were only 12 Christians in the whole world at that time.

My feeling is that if you are going to get upset over this
movie, and the movie follows the Bible, then you should also get upset over the Bible. Its far easier to condemn a movie rather than a book of faith, now isn't it?

[Dark Samurai]

agreed

[Dylflon]

You can't win when you make a movie about Jesus. If you make stuff up in the movie, everyone would be like, "That's not how it happened!" and then they'd protest the movie. But if you tell it like it did happen, everyone protests the movie anyways. That's why I think fundamentalists should just shut the hell up. Because no matter what you do, they'll yell at you.

[rottwylor]

Who cares... none of us were there to witness what did or did not happen. So how can any of us argue. The records surrounding the events are shady at best (IMO). So why fight? Get some popcorn, watch the movie... and then shoot yourself in the head for wasting your money on this movie when you could be spending it on a beer and slice of pizza...


j/k

[Blackmane]

j/k

...but your not. ;)

[rottwylor]

...but your not. ;)

You caught me... I added that for effect :D

I'll probobly rent this movie when it comes out.. so me and my friends can MST3K it to our hearts content. lol

[Crono]

I'm going to see it with my World Religions class as a field trip.

BTW... the controversy of this move just shows how easily society's opinions can be changed or how they can be offended over something stupid like a movie. IMO, that's kind of sad. Movies and music have too much control over what people do and think.

[Koopa]

JHWH.
'Jehova' or 'Jahweh'.
:)
well in effect you're right...but not really :D

the letters in the torah are yud hay vav hay, or yhvh...and i guess it got americanized into jhwh or jhvh..and i think thats how Jehova's witnesses got their name.

but the word is structured in hebrew without any vowels and in a way such that it indicates no gender. so it could be yah way or yehweeh or anything like that

Re: The Passion of Jesus Christ

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joeiss
Koopa, Jesus was looked upon as a criminal, that is why he was put to death. Prisoners were treated very, very poorly in those times, and it was common to "disrespect" them by abusing them. So, the Jews spat on him, who cares? It was what everybody was doing then.

I also believe that a common practice of putting a criminal to death was a public stoning.

Listen, I fear that all people are doing is getting riled up over nothing. The PUBLIC condemned Christ, according to the bible, and the PUBLIC happened to be jewish as there were only 12 Christians in the whole world at that time.

My feeling is that if you are going to get upset over this
movie, and the movie follows the Bible, then you should also get upset over the Bible. Its far easier to condemn a movie rather than a book of faith, now isn't it?

wow i never thought about it that way. i'm just afraid that moviegoers will not take things in context and not see people stoning a criminal, but jews killing jesus.

of course i don't believe in alot of the stuff in christianity, but i really hope i never implied that i wanted to condemn it. my personal belief is that whatever you want to believe that will make you feel spiritually satisfied, and will compell you to behave well on earth, couldn't be bad....as long as you don't hurt others in the process. the threat of this movie turning a story of sacrifice into a problem for jews is what scares me.


also erm...weren't most of the public "pagan" romans?

hey what is the term for the romans' religion anyway? greekism? romanism..? pagan sounds too negative.

I'm going to see it with my World Religions class as a field trip.

BTW... the controversy of this move just shows how easily society's opinions can be changed or how they can be offended over something stupid like a movie. IMO, that's kind of sad. Movies and music have too much control over what people do and think

movies are today's most popular form of entertainment. a hundred yeras ago when books were one of the most popular ways of spreading ideas, books like Uncle Toms Cabin sparked huge controversy, and noone thinks that that book had"too much control over what people do and think." the pamphlet Common Sense made revolutionaries out of many colonists, but noone thinks its sad that they were incited into discussing the issues.

[Dyne]

JHWH.
'Jehova' or 'Jahweh'.
:)

Did anyone remember in Bruce Almighty when Bruce signed onto "Yahweh"? I thought that was a pretty good reference. :)

[Blackmane]

Did anyone remember in Bruce Almighty when Bruce signed onto "Yahweh"? I thought that was a pretty good reference. :)

I saw that, and I was one of the few in the theater who laughed.

[Professor S]

also erm...weren't most of the public "pagan" romans?


Nope. You have to remember that the Romans were conquerors and government officials. One of the reasons why the Romans were so good at maintaining such a large empire is that they learned to not attempt to impose their religious beliefs on others. Those that were Romans at that time in that area were soldiers, social elite and officials. The general populace was that of the people who lived there before the Romans came, which would be Jewish.

[DimHalo]

Did anyone remember in Bruce Almighty when Bruce signed onto "Yahweh"? I thought that was a pretty good reference. :)
yeah, that was quite humorous

[mickydaniels]

Movie opens today. Anybody planning on seeing it?

The only thing that really interests me is the violence, to tell the truth.

[rottwylor]

I hope there are a lot of explosions and car chases!

[Dark Samurai]

I hope there are a lot of explosions and car chases!

HEY!!! YEAH!!! and dont forget the love scenes

[rottwylor]

Oh.. a love scene between Jesus and Mary Magdalene (sp?) would be sweet!! Maybe a scene where Jesus has to supplement his income as a carpenter by stripping at night in the local tavern? He could strip for the locals to Britney's Slave 4 U.

[Crash]

this website is all going to hell

[TheGame]

this website is all going to hell

Amen to that

[rottwylor]

Hallelujah

[jeepnut]

Hallelujah

Sorry, it's Lent. Can't say that again until Easter.

[rottwylor]

Sorry, it's Lent. Can't say that again until Easter.

CRAP! I'll add a postdate on it then...

[Joeiss]

Oh.. a love scene between Jesus and Mary Magdalene (sp?) would be sweet!! Maybe a scene where Jesus has to supplement his income as a carpenter by stripping at night in the local tavern? He could strip for the locals to Britney's Slave 4 U.

Wow, I have never seen so much blasphemy in one post before this.

[The Germanator]

Wow, I have never seen so much blasphemy in one post before this.

Hmm, I could do worse if you want. :)

[Crash]

ok, who has seen the movie:

my initial thoughts. This is the most powerful movie I have ever seen. I didn't think it'd be quite like it was. I figured out what would be the best possible way to make the film, and this was about twice as good. After Jesus died the movie theater was absolutely stunningly silent. Not a cough, not a wimper, not a shuffel. Pefectly quiet. After the movie ended 1/4 left the theater in tears, the other 3/4 stayed at the theater until the last credit rolled. UNTIL THE LAST CREDIT ROLLED! Then they left in tears. Huge powerful amazing movie, go see it no matter what your belief.

:WHOA::WHOA::WHOA::WHOA:

[Jonbo298]

wow. I might see it on sunday or something if I can.

[Canyarion]

Hm sounds good.... I mean... for Christianity and stuff...

[DimHalo]

I can't wait to see it. Not sure when I will be able to but I'll see it in one way or another.

[rottwylor]

Maybe they should do Passion of Joan Arc too...

[Dark Samurai]

or The Passion of Moses

[Crash]

or The Passion of Moses

they made price of egypt and that one movie about joan of arc (that one in the wheat field)

[rottwylor]

they made price of egypt and that one movie about joan of arc (that one in the wheat field)

Truuuue... but it wasn't the last 12 gruelling hours of Joan of Arc's life.... it was more of a glimpse at her entire life. I thought Milla Jovovich was great in that movie.


Ohh... what about the Passion of Noahs Arc!!! That would be awesome!! I want to see how they got all those animals on the boat, and kept them alive for a month!!!

[Dark Samurai]

AND THE WHOLE FLOOD EPISODE ON THAT,

and that would rule

[rottwylor]

Or... Passion of Adam and Eve.. I want to know what TRULY happened. Hopefully Mel Gibson can have a vision for that film too!

[The Germanator]

Or... Passion of Adam and Eve.. I want to know what TRULY happened. Hopefully Mel Gibson can have a vision for that film too!

Hmm, that would be pretty hot...It might be rated NC-17 though.

[Canyarion]

Rottwylor stop joking about it. I'm not offenced, but it's just annoyingly dumb.

[mickydaniels]

:shakehead

Look at all these movie ideas.
Now, we have become a spiritual and intellectual goldmine.

:shakehead

[Crash]

Rottwylor stop joking about it. I'm not offenced, but it's just annoyingly dumb.

cool... you made up your own word "offenced" + rep

psst... it's "offended"

[rottwylor]

What about an FPS based on the movie Passion of Jesus Christ. It could be an exclusive for Nintendo! I bet it would be better than Charlies Angels or T3...

[The Germanator]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20040226/lo_kmbc/2024585

Maybe I won't go see this now....

[Jonbo298]

Wow, thats crazy

[rottwylor]

They can add that to the videogame! An FMV like in Resident Evil!

[DimHalo]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20040226/lo_kmbc/2024585

Maybe I won't go see this now....
It was just too good for her to handle...

[rottwylor]

http://www.tuckinyourshirt.com/archives/000143.php

This is one of the reasons I won't go see it.

[Canyarion]

It's not violent enough? :confused: What's the point of that article?

[rottwylor]

Apparently you don't know how to read... oh well.

[Bond]

This is the most moving film I have ever seen.

Go see it, now.

[rottwylor]

I already saw it.. I thought the movie "the cure" was better.

[Blackmane]

I plan on seeing it tomorrow. I've been preparing my heart by putting myself on an asperin regimen, so I should be alright.

[Canyarion]

Apparently you don't know how to read... oh well.
Stop giving me -rep, fool. 1 time is enough, IF you have a good reason. 4 or 5 times in 1 thread is a bit much don't you think??

[jeepnut]

http://www.tuckinyourshirt.com/archives/000143.php

This is one of the reasons I won't go see it.

I already saw it.. I thought the movie "the cure" was better.

First you say you won't go see it. Then, 1 hour and 17 minutes later you say that you have already seen it. Which is it?

[Jonbo298]

Jeepnut got you there rottwylor. Passion is about 2 hours long, so I go with Jeepnut. Which is it?

Unless you saw it the day before and gave really odd answers

[Canyarion]

And then he gets mad at me when I ask him to summarize the article :unsure:

[Dark Samurai]

I just saw this movie

its POWERFUL

i couldnt believe it

i was very close to crying and vomiting all at the same time

good movie, one of the best IMO

[fingersman]

"I haven’t seen The Passion of the Christ. I probably won’t see it, not any time soon anyway."
http://www.tuckinyourshirt.com/archives/000143.php


Now I saw no sense in writing this article if you have never watched the movie. I mean if the guy had watched the movie and then had this opinion then fine, but he's writing based on hear say and speculation.

That's like me writing a whole article about Canyarion (Don't worry I know your not gay, I hope;) j/k ) stating he was gay and how he should change his ways, without actually taking the time to find out for myself if he actually is or not.

[Blackmane]

My brother saw it and said he almost cried. Thats saying something since he is a really emotionless guy most of the time.

I plan on seeing it once I get a spare moment....

[TheGame]

I haven't had the time to see it yet, I'll go by myself sometime this week