Remembrance Day.

[Seth]

Nov. 11th, Remembrance Day is coming up. I thought I'd make a thread about Canada's contribution in WWII.

The following link has stuff about what Canada did.
http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/youth/sub.cfm?source=history/secondwar

I've noticed a bit of ignorance on this board regarding Canada's involvement in past wars.




By September 1939, over 58,000 Canadian men and women had volunteered to serve in the Canadian Forces.

Canadian soldiers formed the main assault force for the raid on Dieppe, where over 900 Canadians were killed and almost 2,000 more were taken prisoner.

Approximately 14,000 Canadians landed at Normandy on D-day.

The 1st Canadian Army was instrumental in the liberation of Holland in May 1945.

Over one million Canadians served in the Second World War and approximately 45,000 gave their lives.

Canada's navy was the third largest in the allied forces, and its airforce was the fourth largest.

By the end of the Second World War, Canada's navy with more than 113,000 personnel, included over 7,000 women.



In WWII Canadian forces managed to capture Vimy Ridge. No other allied force could capture the ridge from the Germans even though they had a much larger attacking force. It was also the first victory of the allied forces in WWI.



People with more historical points about WWII are welcome to add them.


Support our veterans.

[PureEvil]

CANADA has an ARMY?

:WHOA:

I kid, I kid. Yeah though, Canada's cool, Canada's army is cool (Well, it isn't any more, but at one time...), and all that stuff. I don't have a poppy yet though.

Are any of the Canadian people like, doing anything to mark the day? When I was little I used to go to the parade type things they had with my Grandma, buuuuuuut, I don't do that any more. Yes indeedy.

:canada:

[Bond]

I would also like to thank France for letting Hitler take over their own country without even trying to defend themselves.

Most of the praise for the Allied victory in WWII should probably go to Russia (who was equally as evil as Germany) and Great Britain (Churchill was a genius).

[Crono]

\Most of the praise for the Allied victory in WWII should probably go to Russia (who was equally as evil as Germany)

Stalin and Hitler were evil, not Russia and Germany. :)

[PureEvil]

Stalin and Hitler were evil, not Russia and Germany. :)

No, I think he's more correct in saying Russia and Germany were evil, because Stalin and Hitler sort of got everyone in on it. It wasn't like just those two guys were standing on the streets going "Let's take over the world and kill millions of people!"

There were more people who were "evil" or whatever than just those two individuals. They may have been the ones who got the ball rolling (And even that's something of a stretch), but they had huge amounts of people who were thinking exactly like them, and backing them through the whole thing.

So, even though both statements are technically wrong, referring to the actual countries as evil is certainly closer to the truth. :)

[Crono]

Well, I suppose. But near the end of World War II a lot of German citizens lost faith in Hitler, and even after Stalin died Stalin was denounced by Nikolai Khruschev (leader of USSR after Stalin). Not to mention Stalin kind of forced his way into being leader, he was not elected. Also, millions of Soviet citizens died because they wouldn't listen to Stalin. But anyway, the people in those countries hated their ruler as time passed on. But it doesn't matter anymore I guess.

[Stonecutter]

I would also like to thank France for letting Hitler take over their own country without even trying to defend themselves.

Most of the praise for the Allied victory in WWII should probably go to Russia (who was equally as evil as Germany) and Great Britain (Churchill was a genius).
Russia gave way more to win WWII than any other allied power. 20 milion dead.

[Crono]

Russia gave way more to win WWII than any other allied power. 20 milion dead.

Add in the millions that were killed in WWI and the millions killed by Stalin, and you have the highest amount of deaths in any country of the 20th century. China too, suffered major losses. I forget the exact number but I know millions were slaughtered by the Japanese Army.

[Professor S]

Russia gave way more to win WWII than any other allied power. 20 milion dead.

A large amount of them were shot by their own military. All soldiers retreating were gunned down.

Kruschev wasn't any picnic either. He may not have been as brutal to his own people as Stalin, but he moire of a eye for conquest than Stalin did. Kruschev saw the world becoming under control of communism. There is also the famous speech at the UN where he began beating the podium with his shoe and screaming :"We will crush you!"

[Vampyr]

A large amount of them were shot by their own military. All soldiers retreating were gunned down.

Exactly. They had mounted machine guns behind their own troops, and anyone who decided to retreat got blown to smithereens.

Another huge factor of death: Weapons. When you send guys into battle with pitchforks and tell them to fight, your asking for huge casualties.

And when the Russians did use guns, it was one gun for every two soldiers. One carried the bullets, one carried the gun. When one of them got shot, the other took over.

Those kind of tactics are insane and suicidal, unless you have a large enough population to back up the strategy. Russia did.

[Crono]

Ah yes, Stalin once said "In the Soviet Army, it takes more courage to retreat than it does to advance."

That tactic was more of a message to the Soviet Army that defeat was not an option, and that they had to win, no matter what. If the Soviet Army was defeated at Stalingrad, Russia ( and possibly the world) would have been finished, because at the same time Moscow and Leningrad were under siege, and if the Soviet's lost at Stalingrad then the Germans would have been able to take those cities, and it probably would have only been a matter of time before the Soviet Union collapsed, if it's capital city was under German control.

I'm not saying what Stalin did to his soldiers was a good idea, in fact, it was horrible. But it was a horrible price to pay for their victory.

[Hero2]

they would have had it too if hitler hadent stoped the tanks and waited for the infantry to "catch up"

[TheSlyMoogle]

This has nothing to do with WWII but!

The first Canadian to start selling ice cream was Thomas Webb of Toronto, a confectioner, around 1850. William Neilson produced his first commercial batch of ice cream on Gladstone Ave. in Toronto in 1893, and his company produced ice cream at that location for close to 100 years.

Just thought you might want to know about the first seller of Ice cream in Canada.

Woah!

[PureEvil]

This has nothing to do with WWII but!

The first Canadian to start selling ice cream was Thomas Webb of Toronto, a confectioner, around 1850. William Neilson produced his first commercial batch of ice cream on Gladstone Ave. in Toronto in 1893, and his company produced ice cream at that location for close to 100 years.

Just thought you might want to know about the first seller of Ice cream in Canada.

Woah!

Errmmm, this topic is about war and stuff. Ice cream in no way has anything to do with anything in this topic, although it is very tasty.

[DarkMaster]

Just a message to Angrist and anyone else who happens to be from Holland.


Who freed your country's ass in World War II?

:canada:

Damn straight. And don't you forget it either.

[Hero2]

Just a message to Angrist and anyone else who happens to be from Holland.


Who freed your country's ass in World War II?

:canada:

Damn straight. And don't you forget it either.

as long as you dint forget who ended the war

:usa: / nuke
=-D

[Vampyr]

This has nothing to do with WWII but!

The first Canadian to start selling ice cream was Thomas Webb of Toronto, a confectioner, around 1850. William Neilson produced his first commercial batch of ice cream on Gladstone Ave. in Toronto in 1893, and his company produced ice cream at that location for close to 100 years.

Just thought you might want to know about the first seller of Ice cream in Canada.

Woah!

Well. That was random.

[DarkMaster]

as long as you dint forget who ended the war

:usa: / nuke
=-D
Slaughtering approximately 150,000 innocent civilians isn't exactly a prideful act.


I can already see your counter argument coming.

[GiMpY-wAnNaBe]

as long as you dint forget who ended the war

:usa: / nuke
=-D
lol...technically it was over anyways, and the US deaths would have been insignificant to the deaths of the Japanese army....although i don't believe nuking them was the right idea....and also TWO nukes...i think more than anything US just wanted to flex their muscle at the world....just IMO...anyways back on topic... err, is anyone participating in a parade or celebration of any sort?

[PureEvil]

i think more than anything US just wanted to flex their muscle at the world....just IMO...

Obviously.

[GiMpY-wAnNaBe]

Slaughtering approximately 150,000 innocent civilians isn't exactly a prideful act.


I can already see your counter argument coming.
hehe, i loaded the page before you said that and posted it after you said it...what a coincidence

[Jason1]

What happened in the past happened...lets talk more current events...how about that plane thing that was shot down yesterday killing 15 more Americans? But yea, we really need to be in Iraq...because of all those weapons of mass destruction right? They're a threat to the entire world I tell ya! But will Busch ever admit that we need to get out of Iraq, or actually do it? Hell no, hes way to cool for that.

http://www.whitehouse.org/news/2003/images/coffins.jpg

[Rndm_Perfection]

Somebody in WWII calculated that nuking Japan would create fewer casualties than letting the war with the empire continue... even if the casualties were civilian as opposed to military.


Nukes are supposed to be tools of leverage. Do what I say, or you get the nuke. I'd say the Japanese felt the US was bluffing... and if they were, the war would be prolonged with great casualties and ultimately the leverage would never be useful. After the first bomb was dropped, I assume Japan was shocked, yet still not out of the war. If Japan continued in the war with few soldiers (I don't know the numbers, maybe bases were hit) taken out from the nuke, then the bomb would have been completely in vain, and a tremendous tragedy. Once again, a bomb is dropped to demonstrate how serious the states were.

It was basically the world against Japan. I feel the united states should not have threatened Japan in the first place. Rather, continue the combat and accept the losses rather than showing the world that it can be an evil bastard when push comes to shove.

Of course... Japan was rebuilt and is now the modern Japan we know it as. Aaand, considering this is all written in a Gaming forum, I'm sure all you GameCube fans are happy.

[One Winged Angel]

Russia gave way more to win WWII than any other allied power. 20 milion dead.

too bad 3/4 of all thsoe deaths were from Stalin.

[Hero2]

longwinded bull

[One Winged Angel]

.... was that what you where expecting because its all lies so we might have lost a few solders in an invasion and they might have been on the verg of giving up. soo we killed lots of innocent civilians and forced them to give up. Its revenge for peal harbor, it was needed , the explosion was cool. whatever excuse you want take you pick. you wernt there neither was I the decisions they made were their own (uninfored and rushed they might have been) Ill stand by it because the counrty with the biggest toys in the end wins.

You're an idiot. I can't understand half of what your saying and and the other half I can read is retarded. The nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was not for revenge from Pearl Harbor.

You can say whether it was needed or not. Saying that we needed to kill hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians just to save a few soldiers is just unethical. That was not the intention of the US Army at all. It was to end the war.

[Hero2]

same here

[One Winged Angel]

let me put it in lamens terms (or stupid talk) for you

I could give a **** if you thought it was right or worng. we did it we killed people whatever excuse you want me to justify it with you can have we still ended the war.

i apoligise for the language

I agree that history can't be changed. I'm not challenging the fact it ended the war.

I'm saying your view why it was good is poor and immature.

[ominub]

i say we nuked them for fun but thats just me

[Rndm_Perfection]

let me put it in lamens terms (or stupid talk) for you

I could give a **** if you thought it was right or worng. we did it we killed people whatever excuse you want me to justify it with you can have we still ended the war.

i apoligise for the language

Oh please, Hero, do everyone a favor and get your act together by shutting the hell up on subjects like this, those of which long posts by you spell nothing but disaster. Your whine-ass attitude of "nuke all, I really don't give a **** 'cause that's the cool way to go, I think I'm wasted, d00d... did I really post that?", sort of crap.

You insult yourself by trying to say you'll dumb down to someone's level... through a labyrinth of confusion in grammatical and spelling errors.



Did anyone else feel a :flame:-ing was called for?


Edit: P.S. Ominub posted his opinion just now. Even though I may not agree with it, I can respect it a bit more than Hero's mind-boggling masquerade.

[Hero2]

first of all i dident say nuke them all im srry i cant spell but its not that bad and i dont relly care if what i say is cool or not

i just think its dumb that people complian that people died

[One Winged Angel]

Holy ****!


Just use punctuation!

[Hero2]

i cant i have to type fast im at work and only have like 30 sec to post.

[One Winged Angel]

Well, considering you have time to read all the posts, and browse around and wait for a response to your dumbass post, I seriously doubt it.

[Hero2]

whatever im done arguing thats not what this tread is about and if you want to argue go with a wall youll be on the same level

[Dylflon]

whatever im done arguing thats not what this tread is about and if you want to argue go with a wall youll be on the same level

Whoa ho! You sure showed OWA.

If you're going to argue, it's usually a good thing to know what you're talking about. You can't start acting like an idiot and then call other people dumb. So...you're at work when you post. Does this mean you've graduated from high school? I think it's funny that even middle school students can spell better than you. Use a spell checker or something. Oh, and go read a book.

[Crono]

Just a message to Angrist and anyone else who happens to be from Holland.


Who freed your country's ass in World War II?

:canada:

Damn straight. And don't you forget it either.

Canada wasn't fully responsible for the liberation of Holland, Canadian command just happened to be around when the Germans surrendered, so they surrendered to Canada. The US was responsible for mmore Nazi deaths.

[DarkMaster]

The Liberation of Holland had started with the Americans on September 13, 1944. British troops played a large role along with the Americans. Failure of the airborne assault on Arnhem prevented the liberation of the rest of Holland (September 17, 1944). Canadians took over the liberation and they cleared the Dutch approaches in November. Hostilities ceased on May 5 and the Canadians liberated Holland including Amsterdam and Rotterdam and also the Hague.The Dutch suffered through a harsh winter. Fuel and food and other relief supplies were quickly brought into the area. This was important to winning the war because it ruined the Germans final defense efforts.
Canada had provided a place of refuge for the Queen of Holland during the war in Ottawa . This combined with our efforts to liberate and support the Dutch in Europe led to a good and lasting relationship between the Canada and Holland. This is the reason we have the Tulip festival in Ottawa every year. The tulips are a gift from Holland to Canada to thank us.

[Rndm_Perfection]

This is the reason we have the Tulip festival in Ottawa every year. The tulips are a gift from Holland to Canada to thank us.

Very cool stuff. Glad I know it.

[GiMpY-wAnNaBe]

The Liberation of Holland had started with the Americans on September 13, 1944. British troops played a large role along with the Americans. Failure of the airborne assault on Arnhem prevented the liberation of the rest of Holland (September 17, 1944). Canadians took over the liberation and they cleared the Dutch approaches in November. Hostilities ceased on May 5 and the Canadians liberated Holland including Amsterdam and Rotterdam and also the Hague.The Dutch suffered through a harsh winter. Fuel and food and other relief supplies were quickly brought into the area. This was important to winning the war because it ruined the Germans final defense efforts.
Canada had provided a place of refuge for the Queen of Holland during the war in Ottawa . This combined with our efforts to liberate and support the Dutch in Europe led to a good and lasting relationship between the Canada and Holland. This is the reason we have the Tulip festival in Ottawa every year. The tulips are a gift from Holland to Canada to thank us.
exactly....


and as for the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings.... there is no reason why they hit COMPLETE civilian targets.... people who did not want to be in the war, and people who had no desire to fight and die for the war. The only difference that the US showed by hitting those targets is that they had no interest in civilian deaths. Military targets would have made just a strong a message, especially since the japanese would have realized the futility of gathering troops in one place for an attack as they could easily be dispatched..... anyways....ya, thats my opinion

[Bond]

exactly....


and as for the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings.... there is no reason why they hit COMPLETE civilian targets.... people who did not want to be in the war, and people who had no desire to fight and die for the war. The only difference that the US showed by hitting those targets is that they had no interest in civilian deaths. Military targets would have made just a strong a message, especially since the japanese would have realized the futility of gathering troops in one place for an attack as they could easily be dispatched..... anyways....ya, thats my opinion
If we wouldn't have bombed Japan a lot more people would have died. I would rather not go into details... just believe me. :)

[Seth]

The bombing had to happen, I just don't agree with two bombs being dropped. One bomb would have been sufficient enough.

They blew one bomb up in the air and one one the ground. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were just 'tests'. Basically they were guinea pigs.



Here's a question, could you have pressed the button to drop those bombs? If I was the pilot, I don't think I could.

[Professor S]

The bombing had to happen, I just don't agree with two bombs being dropped. One bomb would have been sufficient enough.

They blew one bomb up in the air and one one the ground. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were just 'tests'. Basically they were guinea pigs.



Here's a question, could you have pressed the button to drop those bombs? If I was the pilot, I don't think I could.

The US asked Japan to surrender after the first bomb was dropped. Japan refused. They refused after the single most destructive weapon known to mankind was detonated on their populace.

The Japanese were, and still are to a large extent, a samurai culture. Quite literally it is in their nature to die before being shamed. We need to look on other cultures through their ideals, and not ours. I find this happening a lot lately, especially in discussions about the Middle East.

[Seth]

Another city had to be destroyed though? Couldn't the US just **** up a large japanese island or Japan's largest military base(s)?

[Vampyr]

Another city had to be destroyed though? Couldn't the US just **** up a large japanese island or Japan's largest military base(s)?

Yes. We had to go for the city. Dont you get it? War isnt about honor or salvation, we did what we had to do. We broke their back and showed them that we would do whatever we had to to win that war. We showed them that the mighty U.S.A would not take any crap. We dropped one bomb, and the Japanese did not surrender because they did not think we had been able to produce more than one bomb.

So they asked us to drop another. They were that confident. And what did we do? Well, Harry gave them Hell.

People will say that it wasnt something to be proud of, but can you look at me and say that any act commited in a war is something to be proud of? We did what needed to be done, and what did it get us? Victory.

[TheSlyMoogle]

It may have gotten us victory, but it was on the horizon already. We didn't need to drop those bombs. Victory in Japan was almost ours and instead we drop bombs and kill around 150,000. Not to mention all of those who died from radiation later, or all the problems the radiation caused for the next 45 years. Nuclear weapons should never be used. How horrid.

Oh and the pilot who flew and dropped the bombs went crazy a few weeks after. You would too.

[GiMpY-wAnNaBe]

Yes. We had to go for the city. Dont you get it? War isnt about honor or salvation, we did what we had to do. We broke their back and showed them that we would do whatever we had to to win that war. We showed them that the mighty U.S.A would not take any crap. We dropped one bomb, and the Japanese did not surrender because they did not think we had been able to produce more than one bomb.

So they asked us to drop another. They were that confident. And what did we do? Well, Harry gave them Hell.

People will say that it wasnt something to be proud of, but can you look at me and say that any act commited in a war is something to be proud of? We did what needed to be done, and what did it get us? Victory.
i'm not completelu sure about this, but i think that there was no communication with the japanese between the two bombings..... ie they dropped them within hours of eachother... in other words, I don't think the US dropped the second because the Japanese didn't believe them, but rather that it was the plan from the start.....


**before anyone -reps me for lying just remember...i *think* thats what happened....i don't have time right now to check the records

[Crono]

i'm not completelu sure about this, but i think that there was no communication with the japanese between the two bombings..... ie they dropped them within hours of eachother... in other words, I don't think the US dropped the second because the Japanese didn't believe them, but rather that it was the plan from the start.....


**before anyone -reps me for lying just remember...i *think* thats what happened....i don't have time right now to check the records

The second bomb was dropped three days later, the Japanese knew what the bomb could do, and even after Hiroshima they would not surrender because they were so stubborn.

[GiMpY-wAnNaBe]

wow.....some retard -repped me for my post even though i said i wasn't sure

[One Winged Angel]

It may have gotten us victory, but it was on the horizon already. We didn't need to drop those bombs. Victory in Japan was almost ours and instead we drop bombs and kill around 150,000. Not to mention all of those who died from radiation later, or all the problems the radiation caused for the next 45 years. Nuclear weapons should never be used. How horrid.

Oh and the pilot who flew and dropped the bombs went crazy a few weeks after. You would too.

We never really knew how strong the nuclear weapons were. It was still the 40's and we didn't know the effect of the bombs.

Yes we had to bomb Japan. Those Japanese have so much nationalism in their blood, they wouldn't give up. Hell, even after the first bomb they still refused to give up. It was a miracle Japan gave up after the second bomb, otherwise we would've been in war with them for even longer, considering we didn't have anymore Nuclear weapons at the time.

Horrid, I agree. Sometimes Drastic Actions are required to end drastic times.

[Crono]

A bomb was tested before the Hiroshima bomb was dropped... so they did know how destructive they were. Just though I'd point that out.

[GiMpY-wAnNaBe]

A bomb was tested before the Hiroshima bomb was dropped... so they did know how destructive they were. Just though I'd point that out.
yes, it was tested, and America well knew it's capabilities, weapons are rarely used during war to be tested

[One Winged Angel]

A bomb was tested before the Hiroshima bomb was dropped... so they did know how destructive they were. Just though I'd point that out.

I knew that, but they didn't know what side effects it gave to people rather than blowing them to bits.

[Vampyr]

I knew that, but they didn't know what side effects it gave to people rather than blowing them to bits.

Maybe not, but it got us a victory, and thats all that matters.

It may have gotten us victory, but it was on the horizon already. We didn't need to drop those bombs. Victory in Japan was almost ours and instead we drop bombs and kill around 150,000. Not to mention all of those who died from radiation later, or all the problems the radiation caused for the next 45 years. Nuclear weapons should never be used. How horrid.

Oh and the pilot who flew and dropped the bombs went crazy a few weeks after. You would too.

Thats war. You have casualities, thats what its all about. And I support nuclear weapons, as long as we're the ones using them. And I think we went to easy on the Japanese, we should have went for Tokyo. They got off lucky, we could have done a lot more.

When your in a war, or in any fight for that matter, you dont slap the other guy and walk away. You beat his freaking brains out until he's bleeding out of every hole in his body and he doesnt have enough strength left to blink. Thats how you win and keep a victory. If you just slap them until they're down, it will just leave them angry and pissed at you, and they will come back. You have to show the bastards that if they even look at you the wrong way, you'll kill them. That the next time they even imagine attacking you, that you'll make their little archipilago non-existant.

The guy who went crazy...he wasnt a very good soldier. I would go crazy, but Im not claiming to be a soldier, now am I?

[PureEvil]

I think it's fairly clear that the nukes were a retaliation for what the Japanese did at Pearl Harbour. The US probably could have finished the whole thing off with just regular forces, but the nukes did a good job of that, and did so without costing the US military any more lives. Moreover, they acted as sort of saying "This is what happens when you f*ck with us" for the 'States, which is always a nice way of assuring you won't be victim to too much more aggression.

Same with 9-11. As I'm sure you've noticed, the 'States went somewhat buck wild and started attacking everything they could think of that had anything to do with the attacks against them.

The United States is a powerful country and wants the world to know that, and so acts against them (especially on their own soil) are completely untolerated, and it seems they will always be returned with fierce vengeance.

The nuclear bombs in Japan probably weren't completely necessary, but they served their function, put a finite end to the war, and boosted the military standing of the United States in the eyes of the world.

Welcome to politics.

[Vampyr]

"This is what happens when you f*ck with us"

Exactly.

Glad to see you agree with me, because thats exactly what I was saying. We could have won without the bombs, but at a cost of American lives, and it wouldnt have been as final as the bomb was. The bomb put it into very simple terms "anyone in the world that f*cks with us, dies."

It may seem harsh, but thats war, and politics. Thats what we have to do to keep America and her people safe. You have to let them now that if they EVER go against you again, there will be absolutely no mercy.

[Crono]

When your in a war, or in any fight for that matter, you dont slap the other guy and walk away. You beat his freaking brains out until he's bleeding out of every hole in his body and he doesnt have enough strength left to blink. Thats how you win and keep a victory. If you just slap them until they're down, it will just leave them angry and pissed at you, and they will come back. You have to show the bastards that if they even look at you the wrong way, you'll kill them. That the next time they even imagine attacking you, that you'll make their little archipilago non-existant.



It's too bad that the Entente didn't realize that. But nooo... France had to get revenge on Germany. Stupid Versailles. WWII wouldn't have happened (well, in Europe anyway) if they had realized that.

[Vampyr]

It's too bad that the Entente didn't realize that. But nooo... France had to get revenge on Germany. Stupid Versailles. WWII wouldn't have happened (well, in Europe anyway) if they had realized that.

I assume you're talking about the Paris Peace Conferance held at the end of WWI, in which only 4 men from 4 countries held the fate of the world in their hands...But it wasnt just France, Great Britain also wanted revenge for the massive damage done to their navy by the Germans.

I agree, if it hadnt been for some very bad things that went down at that conference, and because of Versailles, WWII might not have begun.

When WWI ended, Germany was on her knees, and we kicked her again, and again, and again, and again. Im not totally against that, I mean, when you have someone down, beat the hell out of them so that dont get back up and slap you.

I blame two factions for WWII: Woodrow Wilson and the republican congress. When Wilson went to the peace conference, he brought along only democrats to help him. At this time, congress consisted of almost entirely republicans. They resented Wilson for this act, and when he got back and asked them to join the newly crafted "League of Nations", they refused.

I blame Woodrow for taking only democrats (stupid move) and I blame the republican congress for voting so stupidly over a stupid grudge.

If America had been part of the League of Nations at that time, we could possibly have prevented Germany's rise to power in WWII, because no other nation in the League of Nations was strong enough military wise or economic wise, after the losses of WWI. But America was in the "roaring twenties" we had the power to stop germany, but we didnt. Had we been part of the League of Nations, things could have gone down differently.

[TheSlyMoogle]

The guy who went crazy...he wasnt a very good soldier. I would go crazy, but Im not claiming to be a soldier, now am I?

How can you say that? Most of these people were drafted. I'm sure he probably wasn't because he was a pilot, but seeing what that did, knowing you caused all that death. Yeah that would make anyone insane. How could you think that someone is a good or bad soldier because they go insane after they killed 70000 people instantly. Instantly! I can't believe some of the things our country would do. It's atrocious.

[Rndm_Perfection]

I'd have to agree with the Moogle on that point. One man can only have so many balls... :sneaky: Err, that is... you can talk all you want and feel immortal, but when it comes down to it, killing 100K+ civilians will drive you mad. A soldier is not supposed to kill civilians, and any sane human is not supposed to kill anywhere near that number, whether liscenced to do so or not. Millions returned home from wars with nightmares. Are you saying none of them are good soldiers, Vampyr?

Show a little respect, please. I know what honor and duty-bound fearlessness makes a soldier in Animé, samurai teachings, or on paper... but in reality, killing is so much different.

[Vampyr]

I applaud the man for having the balls to actually push the button. I could never have done that. Never. I applaud him for that.

But he should know that he did what he had to do, and what was required of him from his country. He was not responcible, whoever gave him the orders were. I take back saying he was a bad soldier, that was a bit to far...a human can only do so much.

How could you think that someone is a good or bad soldier because they go insane after they killed 70000 people instantly. Instantly! I can't believe some of the things our country would do. It's atrocious.

Instantly? Are you saying it would have been better to be slowely? Because they had to die. We had to kill them. Its what America had to do to show them that we were the baddest boys on the block and NO ONE f*cks with us. I dont care how atrocious it is. Its war.

[Bond]

Its what America had to do to show them that we were the baddest boys on the block and NO ONE f*cks with us. I dont care how atrocious it is. Its war.
I think you have the completely wrong impression. We didn't drop those bombs on Japan to show them we were the baddest boys on the block, that is ludicrous; I can't believe you actually think that. We dropped those bombs to prevent more deaths, and not just of Americans. War is about surviving.

[Vampyr]

I think you have the completely wrong impression. We didn't drop those bombs on Japan to show them we were the baddest boys on the block, that is ludicrous; I can't believe you actually think that. We dropped those bombs to prevent more deaths, and not just of Americans. War is about surviving.

No. Its not ludicrous. What you said is slightly ludicrous, because you cancel out your statements. You say war is about surviving, yet you say we didnt drop the bombs to prove something. In order to SURVIVE you HAVE to show the world you will do WHATEVER it takes.

Why did we drop TWO if we werent trying to prove something?! They said we wouldnt dare, but we showed them that we did dare.

[Bond]

*bangs head on desk*

*considers replying, then considers outcome*

*goes back to watch Packer game*

[Vampyr]

*bangs head on desk*

*realizes it hurt*

*also realizes he's said to much and that no one (except maybe purevil) agree's with him*

*Goes to bed*

[PureEvil]

I think you have the completely wrong impression. We didn't drop those bombs on Japan to show them we were the baddest boys on the block, that is ludicrous; I can't believe you actually think that. We dropped those bombs to prevent more deaths, and not just of Americans. War is about surviving.

Saying they dropped those nukes solely for an outright good-hearted military strategy is extremely, extremely naive of you. If they had just wanted to bring an end to the war, there were other, less atrocious ways of doing it.

Don't get me wrong -- the nukes did bring a very definite end to the whole conflict, but if an end to the conflict is all they were after, there were certainly other methods of getting there.

The primary function of dropping those bombs was almost certainly to flex United States military muscle. It was to say "Okay, you attacked us at Pearl Harbour, on our own turf, when we wanted nothing to do with it, so now we're going to get you back 100 times as bad." And they did. The absolute devastation those two nuclear warheads brought to Japan was not simply about ending a war. It was about showing what happens when you go after the United States of America. More of a statement than anything.

It's nice to see that you have faith in the true and righteous ways of the US government, but unfortunately, the real world doesn't quite work that way. Governments are not all about good intentions and doing the right thing. The destruction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki are clear examples of that.

The nukes were to show what happened to foolish countries who went after the 'States on their own ground, and for over 50 years everyone made good note and didn't do anything quite as bold as what Japan did. Just recently with the terrorist attacks on American soil we saw that over-reaction and flexing of military might yet again. We'll all seen the US go ballastic on everything that they think has anything to do with terrorist activity. Afghanistan was pulverized in retaliation, and you can be sure more than a few of those "stray" missles we all heard about that killed innocent Afghani citizens were slightly on the intentional side. Payback. Simply payback.

You can go on and continue thinking that the US did nothing more than what they absolutely had to do, but that's overly foolish of you. A country that's had innocent citizens killed for seemingly no reason will pretty much always snap back with over-aggression, and vengeful thoughts.

Reality of it is, cruel actions aren't done just for survival, or just to bring an end to conflict. There's very often some kind of underlying revenge tactic at play.

You shove me, I'll calmly deal with you in search of a peaceful, reasonable resolution isn't the way it works.

In truth, you shove me, I'll shove you harder.

Time to wake up and look at things in a slightly more intelligible way.

[Bond]

LOL.

It's not worth getting into a debate with you PE, and you know that.

[Vampyr]

LOL.

It's not worth getting into a debate with you PE, and you know that.

LOL! :rofl:

Thats the comeback people use when they have ABSOLUTLEY NO COMEBACK. I mean, your:

*bangs head on desk* comeback didnt really have me shakin in my boots...

[Bond]

*sigh*

I don't want to start a debate with either of you especially on this subject. I have many times and I know where it will eventually end up. But for me not to reply makes it look like I don't care and am ignoring you, which I'm not. You can interpret what I am saying in any way you wish. I really can't say it any differently... think what you will.

[Rndm_Perfection]

Time to wake up and look at things in a slightly more intelligible way.

No laughing smiley could possibly accurately depict my emotions right now....

But this is the closest: :rofl:

PureEvil, senseless banter between two sides that are equally correct within a gaming forum can never be called "intelligible", let alone your bass-ackward interperetations.



How 'bout this, not one of you three have a clue as to how people felt in WWII, as none of you were alive during that time period. In this here thread (which is based on Rememberance Day), every honestly well-constructed idea is intelligently invoked. Seriously now PE, you've been raised by action films, Japanese video games, and a Canadian schooling system; I highly doubt that would credit you to all knowledge of the post isolationist, war enthralled United States government's motives.


LOL!

Thats the comeback people use when they have ABSOLUTLEY NO COMEBACK. I mean, your:

*bangs head on desk* comeback didnt really have me shakin in my boots...

If I could -rep you twice for that one post, I would. I won't go searching for another post to make up for it, because that's one of few poorly planned posts by you, that I have noticed.

The fact that you feebly and mockingly copied the "banging of the head" in your reply to him entirely removes the validity of that last post. A pithy remark about lack of comeback is not only a waste of board space, but utterly childish.

I'm surprised you didn't simply declare victory over the debate, even though that wouldn't be entirely accurate, as Bond knew better than to continue the static (Therefor there is no true winner). But no, you had to make a post like that.



Well, as the saying goes, in the end... in an internet debate it's a lot like the special olympics. Win or lose, you're still a 'tard. Then again, who am I to speak? But yes... even I have seen enough of this debate.

[Vampyr]

Check your PM's, random. Im not taking an arguement about stupid things like this onto a public thread called "rememberance day" on the day itself.

On another note...

I hope everyone had a good Veterans Day, and I want to say thanks to all the Veterans in the world. Good show, ol' chaps.

[Xantar]

I applaud the man for having the balls to actually push the button. I could never have done that. Never. I applaud him for that.


Just wanted to point something out here:

The bombardier of the Enola Gay (the plane that dropped the bomb over Hiroshima) didn't know what kind of bomb he was carrying. All he knew was that he was on a mission to get over Hiroshima and then drop this Little Boy over the city. One of the captains of the plane actually scrawled "My God, what have we done?!" into his journal right after seeing te mushroom cloud. He got quite a shock, but he wasn't really as brave as you made him out to be.

And let's get some dates straight here, shall we?

August 6, 1945 - Little Boy dropped over Hiroshima

August 9, 1945 - Fat Man dropped over Nagasaki

August 14, 1945 - Japan surrenders

Make of all that what you will. Just keep in mind that you weren't there and that you have a hell of a lot more information about everything than President Truman did.

[Vampyr]

The bombardier of the Enola Gay (the plane that dropped the bomb over Hiroshima) didn't know what kind of bomb he was carrying. All he knew was that he was on a mission to get over Hiroshima and then drop this Little Boy over the city. One of the captains of the plane actually scrawled "My God, what have we done?!" into his journal right after seeing te mushroom cloud. He got quite a shock, but he wasn't really as brave as you made him out to be.

Hmmm. I didnt know that. Interesting.

But the guy who dropped Fat Man must have known what he was doing, right? So I can applaud one of them, right?

But my argument wasnt really based on the soldier, but I do want to apologize (again) for the comment I made about him not being a good soldier. that was an extremely stupid thing to say, I guess I just got carried away.

[One Winged Angel]

I rather enjoy debating with Bond... always ends out in a draw.