GCN Successor takes place

[One Winged Angel]

June 02, 2003 - Various development sources have confirmed to IGNcube that preliminary talks about the successor to GameCube have begun. Nintendo has allegedly told studios to prepare for a "spring 2005" release for the still-unnamed next-generation console.
Asked if they had received any official documentation for the machine, all software houses contacted said no.

Nintendo has repeatedly stated that it would not be the last hardware manufacturer out of the gates with its next console. In an interview with IGNcube, Nintendo of America's vice president of corporate affairs Perrin Kaplan stated that the company would come to market at the same time or perhaps even before its rivals.

Industry analysts believe that Sony, underway with the tentatively titled PlayStation 3, is the furthest along with its platform, but that the firm -- content with still-strong sales of PlayStation 2 -- may be in no rush to debut its technical successor.

Several development houses admitted to IGNcube that they have already started work on games for the next round of consoles, but none would confirm whether or not they are targeting Nintendo's machine with their games.

More as it develops.

http://cube.ign.com/articles/422/422116p1.html?fromint=1

hmm... seems like Nintendo is serious on releasing earlier. I hope they don't rush it too much.

[Perfect Stu]

Wow...less than a 4 year lifespan for the Cube. I think 'jipped' is the right word.

I'm satisfied with this generation for another 3-4 years...

[Dyne]

If they have Mario up start, and a good multiplayer like Super Smash Bros, consider it worthy. The only thing lacking for the Gamecube when it launced were good games, and it hung them over for more than three quarters of a year. Like, ouch.

[Stonecutter]

Yeah better (who the **** am I kidding) A online plan would help too.

[gekko]

Spring 2005 means Fall 2005 in Japan at the very very earliest. Spring 2006 more likely.

[GameMaster]

But I'm still enjoying my Gamecube. Shouldn't they wait until the customer has been fully pleasured by one machine before giving them the next one? :confused:

[One Winged Angel]

Originally posted by GameMaster
But I'm still enjoying my Gamecube. Shouldn't they wait until the customer has been fully pleasured by one machine before giving them the next one? :confused:

They would if they wanted to be behind on each generation forever

[gekko]

Well if they feel they could get more done by releasing early, they have a reason to.

Example, a system developed for online play from the ground up would be good. Trying to make Gamecube a great online system is difficult, and probably wouldn't work too well. There's one reason to come out earlier.

If they can come out and get a significant user base, they will do well (PS2). If people choose to wait for the other systems it will do poorly (DC).

[One Winged Angel]

This might actually not be a bad idea. the other 2 consoles are concentrating on Online play. Since this is not of Nintendos concern they can put this focus on a new console.

[Jonbo298]

I hope Nintendo adds backward compatibility if they decide to release it "early". Since I'm guessing they are going to use a similar format but with more space, backwards compat. would be a no-brainer. Just as long as they don't charge too much for it. I've read in a few places that its very cheap to make a 'Cube and if they only need the processor and a few other small things, it shouldn't cost much to add it in.
Yes, 'Cube owners do seem jipped, but honestly, Nintendo and MS waited an extra year, so its the only reason owners of new consoles "feel jipped". But like I said, just let me continue playing 'Cube games and I'm a happy paying customer.

[Blackmane]

All I have to say is, backwards compatability. Its one of those things that Nintendo should put in no brainer. Online would be very nice too.

[fingersman]

Originally posted by gekko
Spring 2005 means Fall 2005 in Japan at the very very earliest. Spring 2006 more likely.

Agreed

[Shadow_Link]

Wow, some people always find ways to bitch. If Nintendo releases it earlier than it's rivals, it actually stands a chance of competing. If they release it too late, then it will be the same situation as the current one, and Nintendo would be accused of releasing 'bad' and outdated hardware.

I do agree 4 years is short, though I think Gekko clarified the situation, hence making it around 5 years.This will also allow Nintendo to gain some more 3rd party support, so it should pay off in the long run.

[DeathsHand]

Originally posted by Shadow_Link
If Nintendo releases it earlier than it's rivals, it actually stands a chance of competing.

Like the Dreamcast? :D

Although I guess it's not exactly the same situation because Nintendo is err... More specialer... and I guess it would help to get a jump on the next Playstation... But I dunno I think as long as Sony doesn't crazy overprice it or not have any good games/graphics are launch or shortly after, a lot of people will skip Nintendo and just wait for PS3... Just because it's a big name in the casual gamer market deal...

[Shadow_Link]

Originally posted by DeathsHand
Like the Dreamcast? :D

Hehe. Well, not quite exactly.

Oh yeah, around what time has MS set for the release of their next console?

[Dyne]

Lol, yeah, they'll be ahead, but not far for the XBox. It was the same this gen, I guess. Well, it gave them a lead somewhat.

[GameKinG]

I think people viewed the dreamcast as more of a late, late entry to the last generation. All the people I ever talked to would compare it with N64 and PSX...

[gekko]

But all those people are fools. Think that explains enough.

[DeathsHand]

Originally posted by GameKinG
I think people viewed the dreamcast as more of a late, late entry to the last generation. All the people I ever talked to would compare it with N64 and PSX...

Ok then, the Sega Saturn..... Or did people view that as a late, late entry to the SNES period? :sneaky:

[TheGame]

They should release better hardware at the same time if possible... ;)

I mean, release early and they make the same mistake as Sega... release late and te make the same mistake they made the last two generations. Release at the same time, and they create a whole new mistake ;)

Either way there is a reason to complain... all I want to say is, release any time, and if you have outright better games and hardware than your competitors you will do good. I would like them to try Sega's angle though. I know way too many people who would have purchased a DC before Ps2 was released is one more developer made games for it.... EA.

If they get out the gate first and have the best version of this yearly best-seller (Madden) people won't wait for Sony. If they come out of the gate with the same line-up as GCN, just with the time advantage, I think they would give Sony a much bigger run. GCN had a good launch, but games like Madden and THPS don't have the same effect when they aren't exclusive for a year ;)

-EDIT-

Just as a late thought for ya'lls, when ou release late (like Xbox/GCN) you have to worry about exclusive games to carry you, release early and every game you have 1st-3rd party is exclusive. Get a high selling third party game out the gates (Like Ps2 with Tekken and Madden and Ridge Racer) and the crowd will follow.

[stonecold316]

this is great news! I hope Nintendo kicks Sony's @ss in the new generation! :)

[Perfect Stu]

Originally posted by stonecold316
this is great news! I hope Nintendo kicks Sony's @ss in the new generation! :)

good for you, sport! :)

[D-realJos]

I too am disappointed at the likely short life-cycle. We're not the only ones, believe me. Knowing Nintendo, they would have loved to stick it out much longer and milk GameCube for all it's worth.

However, if the competition is so dead-set on engaging in next-generation activities(some already courting developers with their vision of hardware capability, and features), what the hell is Nintendo to do? :confused:

Act like the competition is going to wait on them? Give them a huge headstart? Give thrid-party more incentive to "abadon" them? Start software development late? Let the competition mold the minds of the potential "GCN2" buyers and gain overwhelming consumer confidence? Basically, making all the same moves that got them in the situation they are in now?

Come on! It's all unfortunate(short cycle), but you gotta do what ya gotta do.

PS: I hope the industry doesn't keep this up(pushing for next level of hardware, and not giving the current gen enough time to hit their true potential). Everyone is so anxious to take hardware to the next level -- that's not saying it's a bad thing -- but meanwhile, content isn't advancing near as fast.

The greater the push for new hardware is, the less time content has to evolve. On the bright side, the sooner the industry hits that ultimate level of hardware capability, the sooner they'll have NO CHOICE but to focus on content in order to capture a gamer's attention. A point where developers will be able to say, "Ok, we've got all the capabilitily we need, let's just kick back and make the best games we can." But, until that time comes, you'll have to put up with these short generation cycles, puntuated mainly by huge graphical leaps and small content jumps.

[TheGame]

Stonecold 3:16, fix your sig... the rules are in a sticky thread in the general forum.

[Perfect Stu]

I don't see how console lifespans are that much shorter these days.

2-generation leaps:

Then: NES (1985) - N64 (1996) 11 years
Now: PSone (1995) - PS3 (all signs point to 2006) 11 years

:confused:

[Gamer]

I think that Nintendo is being pushed into releasing the next gen console quickly, as to not lost sales to sony, i mean, look at what happened this time around, sony released a year earlier, and nintendo get a 8th of the sales...same with microsoft, therefore, this time they want to right their wrongs and release b4 the competition thus granting them a head start on sales, and a head start on everything.

[D-realJos]

Originally posted by Perfect Stu
I don't see how console lifespans are that much shorter these days.

2-generation leaps:

Then: NES (1985) - N64 (1996) 11 years
Now: PSone (1995) - PS3 (all signs point to 2006) 11 years

:confused:


You gotta take a lot more into account.

As technology gets more and more sophisticated, the developement cycle of software(the engines that run them and the will to push the envelope) is extended. Some of today's major/ambitous projects are in development for well over 3 years. That says a lot! :eek:

So, what you're seeing is that -- even if your looking from the perspective that the console lifespans are somewhat stable -- development cycles are getting longer and longer, YET, the console lifespan isn't getting any longer(I personally believe they're getting shorter).

[Cyrax9]

I persoanlly tink SOny has gotten cokcy with the PSX and they're going to release in last palce this time which is the same msitake nintendo amde oon the N64,m god for the big N because I want the release to go like this:

1. Xbox 2
2. GCN II
3. PS3

Ok why XBox2 beofre GCN2?

Because as we';ve seenw ith SOny, the first of the enxt-gen laways ahs bugs, let m$ work out the bugs for NIntendo, let the Big N make their release adn ahve sony make the same mistake NIntendo did, I just don't want NIntendo to become the enxt Sega, relasing tooe arly and eventullay droping the COnolse biz.

[DeathsHand]

I don't think Sony WANTS or plans to release PS3 after Xbox2 and NGC2... It might turn out that way, but I doubt it would just be from cockiness...

But who knows... Microsoft hasn't said when they are planning to release Xbox2, have they? And Sony hasn't exactly said a date for them have they? And as someone else said, Nintendo's console could always be delayed...

Yep...

[Jason1]

Originally posted by DeathsHand
Nintendo's console could always be delayed...

Yep...

Could be delayed? Isnt that almost a scientific fact?

[Perfect Stu]

Sony will release the PS3 when it is ready. I really don't understand how them becoming "cocky with the PSX" has anything to do with them purpously releasing the PS3 late. In fact, that whole statement by Cyrax makes my brain hurt :(

[TheGame]

Originally posted by Jason1
Could be delayed? Isnt that almost a scientific fact?

Not exacty a fact... it's somewhere on the level of saying "The sun will rise tomorrow morning"... Extremely likely, but not a fact. ;)

I don't think anything refering to the future can be a fact :p

[tarakan69]

Originally posted by Perfect Stu
Sony will release the PS3 when it is ready. I really don't understand how them becoming "cocky with the PSX" has anything to do with them purpously releasing the PS3 late. In fact, that whole statement by Cyrax makes my brain hurt :(

Stu is right. The PSX isn't even a mainstream product. It's for the elite/rich people who want forward technology paired with a console.

As for PS3... It might launch last. But X-Box2, and GCN 2 will be taking a heavier beating in long run since Sony is going to have the graphics advatage.

As for Nintendo... I HOPE they make a game only console. No HD... PLEASE...

[GameKinG]

I dont think PSX is really being offered as a game console, more of just a tivo type thing with ability to play games, as it seems the controller ports are hidden on the back. It just use's PS's name to sell.

[TheGame]

Originally posted by tarakan69
As for Nintendo... I HOPE they make a game only console. No HD... PLEASE...

you mean "no DVD, please"

Because an HD is like a built i Memory Card (kinda like when Nintendo had carts). I hope Nintendo has a WAY biger memory card than they have this gen, and if they stick to the same small size please have some type of HD.

[The Duggler]

Originally posted by TheGame
Because an HD is like a built i Memory Card (kinda like when Nintendo had carts). :hmm: ?? Last time I checked, a Hard Drive was composed of platers with a read/write head. But if you mean that is has the same purpose as built in memory which is simply holding data, then my bad, you're right.

[Jonbo298]

HD's would be fine, but the only thing I don't like about relying only on HD's is that most games would save at every chance they get. I like it when I'm using a mem. card and I mess up badly, I just pull it out, hit reset and do it again:D And on the subject of Sony having the graphics advantage. If Sony does come last, I hope Sony fanboy's don't turn into the XBox fanboys of this gen. I hate it when all people ever talk about are graphics and not the gameplay. GotDamn casual gamers, I hate them as much as the Pupli;) (Name that show!)

[Seth]

I don't hate casual gamers(most of my friends). I just detest it when they tell me how PS2's graphics are far better than GC's or how the xbox has sold more systems than any other console.

I wonder how much of a difference there will be in graphics between the next console gen. I don't think it will be more relevant than the current generations difference. Not that there's that much of a noticable difference now anyway.

[One Winged Angel]

Originally posted by Perfect Stu


I'm satisfied with this generation for another 3-4 years...

or whenever Sony releases the PS3

[Perfect Stu]

Originally posted by One Winged Angel
or whenever Sony releases the PS3

:rolleyes:

3-4 years, or when developers stop making top notch games for PS2 and XBox. whichever comes first...smartass

[bobcat]

I want Mario Kart :(

[viruscool]

Does anyone have any idea what the "bit" of the next consoles will be?

[Gamer]

Anyone find any good "pics" of the new systems?

[Seth]

Nintendo better have a built in HD in the GC 2. I'd rather pay 40 bucks more for a HD than 35 bucks for a crappy memory card. Like, you can have a memory card slot too, but and HD is needed for online ****.

[Stonecutter]

Originally posted by viruscool
Does anyone have any idea what the "bit" of the next consoles will be?

It......doesn't really matter anymore.

The next generation will be measured in the same way you measure how much power a computer has(much the same why this generation was meaured.) Processor speed, RAM, and graphics card.

[GameKinG]

Bits are so useless now. Like Stone said, it will all be tech talk for now and in the future.

[TheGame]

Xbox is 32-bit, GCN is 64 Bit, and Dreamcast/Ps2 are 128bit... this fact alone should show how useless "bits" are now

[Perfect Stu]

bits aren't useless. they aren't even close to being the deciding factor of how powerful the system is...but they're not useless.

[TheGame]

Well, Stu, get technical here... how are they important, what difference does it really make now in this 3d world? ;)

(I'm not trying to argue, I just really don't know... :()

I mean, would Xbox's preformance be any better if it had been 128bit? On the same note, why wouldn't MS just use this technology that's already out if it made any type of positive difference. I mean, right now the two most powerful consoles out there aren't even tru 128bit systems, yet two "less powerful" systems from the same gen are 128bit.

-EDIT-

Oh, and what I meant by useless was that's it's useless in comparing the raw power of consoles now.

[viruscool]

WHAT wasnt gamecube or xbox 128bit???????

[TheGame]

Originally posted by viruscool
WHAT wasnt gamecube or xbox 128bit???????

No... Xbox is 32, GCN is 64 like I said.

I used to have an explanation for it, like GCN runs on two 64-bit processors... and Xbox runs on four 32 bit processors (or somthing like that).

I'm not 100% sure, but that's why I think they label them as 128bit, alongside DC and Ps2 which run simply off of one 128 bit processor.

But once again, I'm FAR from sure on this Matter... the only thing I know for sure is Xbox is in fact 32 bit, and GCN is 64, and Ps2 is 128.

[Dyne]

Originally posted by TheGame
No... Xbox is 32, GCN is 64 like I said.

I used to have an explanation for it, like GCN runs on two 64-bit processors... and Xbox runs on four 32 bit processors (or somthing like that).

I'm not 100% sure, but that's why I think they label them as 128bit, alongside DC and Ps2 which run simply off of one 128 bit processor.

But once again, I'm FAR from sure on this Matter... the only thing I know for sure is Xbox is in fact 32 bit, and GCN is 64, and Ps2 is 128.

PS2 ran off four on the older models.. but then they found a way to merge them together. That's why the first price drop happened.

[Perfect Stu]

I dunno if you're trying to disagree with me or not, Justin :p

The bold print is there for a reason, but my point is valid. I won't get too technical (for various reasons :sneaky: ) but it's fact ;)

[Shadow Fox]

No... Xbox is 32, GCN is 64 like I said.

I used to have an explanation for it, like GCN runs on two 64-bit processors... and Xbox runs on four 32 bit processors (or somthing like that).

I'm not 100% sure, but that's why I think they label them as 128bit, alongside DC and Ps2 which run simply off of one 128 bit processor.

But once again, I'm FAR from sure on this Matter... the only thing I know for sure is Xbox is in fact 32 bit, and GCN is 64, and Ps2 is 128.OK, let me clear this up:

The DC, though very close, is only a 64-bit console by design (two 64-bit Hitachi CPUs, with a 128-bit PowerVR graphics engine. The Dreamcast has no dedicated GPU to handle graphics functions. Like the PS2, it is all handle in the MPU with Vector Processes.

The PS2 is the first true 128-bit console, and the price-point (prior to launch) definately proves that, and why the PS2 also has no dedicated GPU. The PS2 has one 297mhz CPU emulating two tasks- one as a main processor at half the clock speed (148.5 mhz), while the other is the "emotion engine" or graphics subset running at anywhere from 90mhz to the full 297mhz, of course at the cost of performance.

The emotion engine lacks onboard T&L (texture and lighting units), and does all effects in software, being a fixed graphics system. However, the PS2 is a VERY POWERFUL fixed-function unit, and the first ever with a HUGE 12-texel pipeline, capable of today's highest realword fillrate.;)

The GCN is a 64-bit system with a 256-bit graphics engine (codenamed "Flipper" by ArtX, later aquired by Ati). Rumors have it that Nintendo has indeed changed the PowerPC 750cxe chip (Gekko CPU) to a 64-bit SIMD instruction set, though the physical address is 32-bit according to most sources and docs.

Flipper LSI is a GPU, I/O Controller, Memory management system, Boot Rom location, L3 cache, Sound DSP, and expansion port all in one, operating at a synchonous 162mhz- 33% of Gekko's amended clock speed. Flipper is also fixed-function like PS2's graphics synth, and lacks hardware shaders provided in Nvidia's Xbox solution. However, GCN's ISA is VERY FLEXIBLE, and custom shaders have already been implemented in launch titles by Factor 5 and Nintendo, as well as newer technology in games like StarFox adventures, Mario Sunshine, and the upcoming Resident Evil 4. Low-level code for things such as DOT3 environment bumpmapping is now possible on GCN thanks to forward-thinking, and making the GCN very easy to program for via Open GL and DX toolsets. This is the first time (and probably the last) that a fixed-function GPU is capable of programmable functions without using a CPU to deliver the instructions.

The Xbox is a 32-bit system with a 256-bit graphics engine, codenamed "NV2A". The 733mhz CISC CPU has been given some extra gaming instructions, as well as native portions of the Win2k kernel the OS uses as a dashboard. In comparsion, the GCN RISC processor, depending on application, is generally as fast or faster than a 700mhz PIII CPU, so Xbox and GCN are typically the same CPU-wise.

In the graphics department, the GPU has a myriad of onboard effects with a programmable GPU API. This allows things such as bumpmapping, multitexturing, custom lighting, and other effects at no cost to performance (that GCN technically cannot do without a hit on performance, until the ISA was actually revealed for Flipper, proving otherwise). The Xbox is capable of roughly the same as GCN, since Xbox with raw power can almost compensate for performance hits for texture layers/hardware lights above 4 per pass, while GCN does 8 textures and 8 lights at no cost.

To recap:

DC is a 64-bit system with 128-bit graphics engine (fixed)
PS2 is a 128-bit system with a 128-bit graphics engine (fixed)
GCN is a 64 (or 32)-bit system with a 256-bit dedicated GPU (fixed)
Xbox is a 32-bit system with a 256-bit dedicated GPU (programmable)

It's not that difficult to see where the "bit" thing is going- it's quite obvious that "bit" is exponentially increasing in the GPU scale (see Parhelia 512 GPU, and newer Ati/NV cards due by 2004). Newer consoles will have either 256-bit, or 512-bit GPU's, with varying CPU types and clock speeds.

PS3 though, just may again be without a GPU, since Sony once again harps on vector units as a mainstay in many recent articles regarding Cell technology.

If you want more info on all of this techno jargon, feel free to PM me.

-Official Ninja of [coming soon]...

[Jason1]

Thank you Shdow Fox, that really cleared some things up.

[Cyrax9]

Hmm...

Here's a quick-thought, IGN has an insider article I can't read becuase, well I'm not an insider sadly enough ( I gotta have some ca$h too ya know!) and they were talking about "Possibilities" of a GCN SP, sort of a souped-up GCN, I guess something like the PSx from SOny, if that's the Case, than I'd say NIntendo is tryign to get this ting ready early so it can launch when the PS3 does, if not sooner, I just hope they don't try Srping 2005 or fall 2004 unless SOny succees with an earlyd ate, I honestly think the way the cnsoles are going to come ut of the gates will be Xbox 2 (C'mon these guys churn out a new PC OS every year this is all they knwo how to do, make a "Sequal" of sorts), followed by the GCN 2, and finally ther PS3 which will actually be hurt fro SOny's PSX getting a release when ti does, SOny seems to be making the same mistake Sega and even to an extent, Nintendo did on thier third console, I all it the "Thrd Console Curse" it's when you get Cocky and push the envelope too far and LOSE sales, if this happenes, Nintendo will have to take advantage of it, because when the votes are tallied adn the decision is final, the end result if executed correctly should be GCN 2, XBX2, PS3, as for now, I'd say it's going to go PS2, GCN, XBX unless Microsoft pulls something really good off aside form Online play, because in all honest, I don't like anything on XBX except halo which is coming to the PC/Mac where it should have been already, and yes, I will ahve the MAC version and possibly a Linux version should one be relased.