Backlash Results and Impressions

[Professor S]

Starting at 8 PM EST I'll be posting the results on the WWE PPV and also posting my thoughts.

Those of you interested, check back throughout the night for updates. Those of you not interested, please don't waste all our time by posting on this thread. Thanks.

[Bond]

Wow, I've been so out of the WWE lately I completely forgot about Backlash.

I don't even know the matches. :(

[Professor S]

Great match. Los Guerreros are just awesome. Tons of cheating by both sides including chokes with the tag ropes. Chavo is finally showing some of the personality that got him over in WCW.

Winner: Team Angle - But Chavo lays them both out with a plancha afterwards and Los Guerreros steal the titles and leave in a sparkling green low riding Caddie with hydrolics that plays la Cucaracha on the horn... I'm not kidding.

Between matches the camera catches Test forcing himself on Torrie backastage.

[Professor S]

Piper out first to introduce with a basket full of, you guessed it, coconuts. In Pipers words "a loverly basket of coconuts".

Well, it was short, and that was a good. As a match it was there. I think the point was to have Piper take a coconut to the dome, but put over O'Haire in the process. The coconut shot was rough, and Piper was bleeding afterwards. Maybe a little 20 year old revenge for the real coconut shot on Snuka? Hmmmmm..

Winner: Shawn O'Haire

In Between: Sable tells Staci that Torrie forced herself on Test. RVD talks to Kane about loving the titles, but worried that Morley won't let them win. Kane says to just go out there and win.

[Professor S]

Chief Morley guest ref. He no likey RVD and Kane.

RVD and Kane finally get a PPV payday for being the Champions.

This one continued the angle of RVD/Kane vs The Administration vs the Dudley Boys. Good match. Morley low blows Kane for the Dudleys but when Bubba Ray covers, he does a normal count so that Kane would kick out? Wouldn't he do a quick count? Does this make sense.

Oh well, its the WWE. Run in from Storm that gets botched. Everyone kills everyone including Morley getting a 3D.

Winner: RVD and Kane Retain

In between: Staci confronts Torrie and to quote Joey Styles... CAT FIIIIIIIGHT!!!

[Professor S]

Teddy Long intrduces Jazz and "hollas" at all the "playas". Jazz talks about being a bitch and how she's black. I really don't like the whole racial angle, and I don't see how anyone in the company thinks it will draw money.

Best match so far tonight. And yet again, I'm not kidding. Stiff work and a great spot where Jazz countered Trishes corner top turnbuckle Rana into a single leg crab, dropping to the canvas. Awesome.

End with Teddy Long breaking up a count with his SHOE, and hilariously blaming a fan in the crowd. Trish angry, Jazz rolls up Trish, holding the ropes to win the title.

Winner: Jazz

In between: Booker, Michaels and Nash talk in the back. Nash says to leave HHH to him.

[Professor S]

I liked this match, but I can see how many wouldn't. It was a classic big man vs little man match with some great spots. At one point Rey hit 3 619's in a row on Big Show. One to the stomach, one to the back of the knees and finally one to the head. In trhe end they were all hope spots, but nothing real. Big Show wins with a HUGE choke slam.

Winner: The Big Show

After the match, they stretch Rey, strapping him down. Big Show comes out, clears out all the EMTs, and the next spot was simply incredible.

The Big Show grabbed the whole stretcher, threw it up on his should, and swung it like a baseball bat against the corner post... HARD. Rey landed on his face... HARD. Sick.

In between: Interview with HHH, Jericho and Flair. Standard we're going to beat them up promo. Staci and Torrie... CAT FIIIIGHT!!! Torrie cracks Staci over the head with a box. Steiner comes out to help Staci up. Test comes out and gets angry, calling Steiner a loser. I can't wait for THIS feud... :rolleyes:

[Professor S]

WWE Title Match... in the middle of the card. I hope the hard split happens soon, like its supposed to, because a lot of titles are losing their heat with the joint PPVs.

Cena comes out rapping about being the new champ, in a Yankees jersey... in Worchester, Mass. Cheap heat anyone? He drops all kinds of former champion names in the lyrics, including Bruno Sammartino, The Three Faces of Foley and Kurt Angle. It was actually pretty cool.

Lesnar comes out with a big bandage on his head from the chain shot. They make a big deal out of it. I smell "crimson mask" already.

Ok match, but Lesnar showed a lot of green psychologically compared to Cena, who is quickly becoming one of the best psychological wrestlers in the WWE. Cena carried lesnar through much of the match, but 3/4 in Lesnar took control and the match was just a botch after that. Good beginning, better middle, and crappy anti-climactic ending that made Cena look like a punk.

Winner: Lesnar retains

Side note: Cena is getting face pops. The WWE better pay attention and make him less, well, entertaining if they want to keep him a heel.

[Professor S]

*Prays to God*

Please Dear Lord, make HHH do whats best for the business and lay down for Booket T.

*Realizes that Bookers partners are Kevin Nash and Shawn Michaels*

Oh thats right, Satan in booking this match... never mind.

At least HHH's music is still cool.

Decent 3 man tag. Flair looked better than he has in a long time. A lot of HHH avoiding Nash. In the end HHH gets the 3 over Nash. Who'd a thunk it?:rolleyes:

Winner: Team HHH

In between: Recap of the sick Rey Mysterio spot and an update on Mysterio. He went to Trauma center. They're making a big stink about it, saying his vital signs are good and he may or may not be paralyzed. It was a sick spot, but i think they may be over doing it. More info on Smackdown.

[Professor S]

The Big Question: We know Goldberg is going over, but will Goldberg sell for The Rock seeing that he's retiring? Me no think so, but lets see.

Ugh. Good God. I hope The Rock didn't throw his back out carrying that lousy hump to a tolerable match. I literally have not seen anyone carried like that in years. The Rock made Goldberg look like a monster. He sold like crazy and played the coward through most of the match, and then basically jobbed out to Goldberg in one of the last matches, if not the last match of his amazing career.

The worst part? Its all for nothing. The crowd was at least 75% pro Rock and were BOOING Goldberg throughout the match and I'd have to say 90% of the crowd were against him at the end. It was funny listening to Coach try and convince us that the crowd loved him. Yet another experiment fails miseraby. The WWE needs to cut their losses now and get rid of him, considering he's a disease backstage.

Winner: Goldturd

Overall this was a below average showing for the WWE. The early and mid-card were good, even very good, but the top of the card was lacking in workrate, but more importantly the booking was absolutely horrible. You were left with the feeling that you could have skipped the PPV and not missed much of anything in the main event angles. The Rey Mysterio spot was amazing to see live, though. Definitely catch it on TV this week.

[TheGame]

hahaha.. not much I can say. But i'll give my 5 cents anyway.

I knew that would happen with Rock vs Goldberg.. especially after last Raw. Rock dissed the town (and of all towns, GB's home town) and the crowd gave half assed booes, then he dissed Goldberg and the crowd was screaming thier heads off with cheers.

As far as Cena/Brock, too damn predictable, I see why it was on the mid card. Also, I agree, Cena could become a face, or he needs to be neutral... trying to become an all out face and the crowd reacting to it good now is pretty hard. Fans dig heels for some odd reason.

as for HHH...hahahahahaha, I'll just leave it alone.

-EDIT-

I can't leave it too far alone...I just want to say, the HHH/Goldberg feud will be terrible. Unless HHH becomes a face (I don't know how on earth he can do this) I think we'll see the fans acting unlike Vince wants them to act again.

[nWoCHRISnWo]

Well match by match, I would say it was pretty average, but overall as a PPV, it was below average by a lot. Everything was predictable, nothing special happened, Goldberg sucks, etc.

Team Angle/Los Guerreros~ Good match, I liked it a lot, but I think they could be getting a lot more out of Eddie.

Rikishi/O'Haire~ Meh, it was a Rikishi match. I'm entertained by O'Haire and Piper's antics though. :)

RVD & Kane/Dudleys~ God this seems to have been going on forever with the same match every time, I don't know exactly what the fans are supposed to think after the match either.

Jazz/Trish~ Good match, is evidence in my statement that Raw's best or 2nd best match is usually the Women's match.

Big Show/Rey~ Good for what it was, but it wasn't much. This will likely set up Big Show vs Lesnar for Judgement Day, I can't wait. :rolleyes: SICK SICK SICK spot at the end though, damn that was brutal.

Cena/Brock~ I love both guys, but I thought the match was pretty ****ty all in all. Don't forget that was Cena's hometown, thus possibly a reason for some face pops, I didn't really notice any during Smackdown before so that might be why.

Six Man match~ Well, it wouldn't have helped anyone if HHH won, so that's what happened. Big question is, will HHH ever lose on a PPV again, EVER? And look for Booker to feud with Flair and have a match at JD, as that's what happens a month or two after you get jobbed to Triple H. See: RVD

Piece of sh-t/Rock~ The match was what, 12 minutes or so? 7 minutes was stalling. Very predictable stuff here, Goldberg wins, Rock is pretty funny ("Oh, now you're gonna get it!"), and Goldberg still sucks ass. Looks like the near-distant future of WWE is Triple H, Nash, HBK, Goldberg, and Big Show... I think I might be missing my first WWF/E PPV since 1993 this year.

Oh yeah, and why the **** wasn't Benoit on the card? And Kendrick/Hardy was supposed to be on the PPV too I thought? I wouldn't even be watching WWE at all if it wasn't a habit I just do now.

[TheGame]

Six Man match~ Well, it wouldn't have helped anyone if HHH won, so that's what happened. Big question is, will HHH ever lose on a PPV again, EVER?

:lol:

I dunno, but when he does lose (if that will happen) lets just pray it's to sombody who needs a push and can handle one... like Jericho or Booker T.

But, knowing HHH, he will only lose to his best friend... but a loss is a loss I guess. (I really don't care who wins in the HHH vs Goldberg feud, neither of them deserve to win a match like that)

[Professor S]

Game, you talk about people not being able to handle a push... do you even REMEMBER Jericho's title run? He got MASSIVE heel heat, and not the Big Bossman kind, good heel heat. So what happened? He walked Steph's dog and cleaned up its poop on national TV. The WWE champ walked Steph's dog. Gee, I wonder who she was going out with at the time? Hmmmm???

And how do you know who can and can't handle a title push? I mean, how WOULD oyu know seeing that HHH won't actually put anyone over. You keep on talking about HHH winning by cheating, and that is silly. Heel champs are supposed to cheat, and face champs are supposed to overcome the cheating and win anyway. That doesn't happen with HHH. He buries everyone. How tyou can think he is a good champion blows my mind. I try and put myself in the shoes of a HHH fan and he still stinks, in all categories except maybe his mic work, and even that has become redundant and counterproductive as he just belittle's all his opponents before beating them.

Now Nash is feuding with HHH, and Booker gets the joy of working with Flair. Gee, that won't kill any heat on Booker now will it? NAW. BTW, Nash looks like he should be on crutches, the way he hobbles around the ring.

Step back and take a look. The only people that HHH puts over are those that work with him on the storylines. Thank God Jericho finally learned the politics and decided to work an angle on the same side as HHH. Now maybe he won't have to lie down for him.

Question: Who do you think would logically make sense to get over on HHH?

You blame Vince, and I'm not saying you shouldn't, but that doesn't excuse HHH's backstage politics. Not at all. He's Nero, playing his fiddle as Rome burns. HHH should pick up a bucket and try and put out the fire instead of worrying about himself.

[BreakABone]

Well, I didn't watch the PPv because I thought the card looked rather weak, and Backlash has a history of disappointing for some odd reason, it must be the WrestleMania-hype die down, but thanks to Goldberg, I was able to check out the Rock vs Goldberg match which was rather.. hmm, better than Steiner vs Triple H, but damn Rock will be missed.

http://www.billgoldberg.com/new/multimedia_backlash.htm

[TheGame]

Originally posted by The Strangler
Game, you talk about people not being able to handle a push... do you even REMEMBER Jericho's title run? He got MASSIVE heel heat, and not the Big Bossman kind, good heel heat. So what happened? He walked Steph's dog and cleaned up its poop on national TV. The WWE champ walked Steph's dog. Gee, I wonder who she was going out with at the time? Hmmmm???

And how do you know who can and can't handle a title push? I mean, how WOULD oyu know seeing that HHH won't actually put anyone over. You keep on talking about HHH winning by cheating, and that is silly. Heel champs are supposed to cheat, and face champs are supposed to overcome the cheating and win anyway. That doesn't happen with HHH. He buries everyone. How tyou can think he is a good champion blows my mind. I try and put myself in the shoes of a HHH fan and he still stinks, in all categories except maybe his mic work, and even that has become redundant and counterproductive as he just belittle's all his opponents before beating them.

Now Nash is feuding with HHH, and Booker gets the joy of working with Flair. Gee, that won't kill any heat on Booker now will it? NAW. BTW, Nash looks like he should be on crutches, the way he hobbles around the ring.

Step back and take a look. The only people that HHH puts over are those that work with him on the storylines. Thank God Jericho finally learned the politics and decided to work an angle on the same side as HHH. Now maybe he won't have to lie down for him.

Question: Who do you think would logically make sense to get over on HHH?

You blame Vince, and I'm not saying you shouldn't, but that doesn't excuse HHH's backstage politics. Not at all. He's Nero, playing his fiddle as Rome burns. HHH should pick up a bucket and try and put out the fire instead of worrying about himself.

Hmm...

You make nice points, but I'm still trying to figue out how you are argueing with me? :confused:

Who would it logically make sense for HHH to lose to? Well, take Flair away and it would make sense for him to lose to a lot of guys. Now that he turned into a heel again, he has been barely coming out of his mathes alive. (you can disagree if you want, but come on, HHH's last title run reminds me of when he had chyna cheating for him EVERY match, he hasn't went over fairly in a long time)

As for being ready for a push, where did I say Jericho is not ready? Where did I say Jericho was not ready? In fact, I said Jericho IS ready... people who I feel who aren't ready falls into the category of.. say, A-Train.

Oh, and I remember Jericho's title run... VERY well.

WARNING: I'm about to cross the line between the time where I didn't give a damn about backstage politics and if a guy gets a push or not

Lets just put it like this... I used to HATE Jericho, and at the time time, I used to LOVE HHH. Back then, if I had a gun, and I met Jericho, I would have shot him. I hated everything about him, and even worse, he was champ. He wasn't a guy I loved to hate too, he was a guy where when he came on I took a bathroom break or changed the channel. I liked him in the WCW, but soon after he enterd the WWE it turned to hate.

Now, from what I know now, that was a good thing... maybe. Me crosing the line of changing the channel was bad, but hey, he was and could have been one of the biggest heels of all time. In my book, as far as my personal distaste for a wrestler at the time before I cared about backstage crap... he was the most hateable wrestler I have ever seen.

Now, is that good? No. If were still as big as he could have been, I think I would be completly turned off to the WWE right now.

Also, you say I think HHH is a good champion... I think he's not the best champ, and not even a great champ right now. But I think he's NO worse than Brock... In fact, I'd call him better (more entertaining) than Brock if you throw backstage politics out the window.

As for your rule on how a heel is supposed to lose and a face is supposed to overcome cheating, I find that to be a horrible excuse for making HHH lose. It would be a LOT worse if he won cleanly and fairly every time, and you know it.

I put it like this, if he is going to write himself in as keeping the belt, I feel he could have done a much worse job at staying a heel champ... Not to say he's doing a great job staying a heel champ, but it is still better than what it could have been.

HHH looks very vunerable, unlike our friends Mr Lensar and Mr Goldberg... an unbeatable face vs a Heel who doesn't lose but looks weaker than most championship contenders.

[nWoCHRISnWo]

I think The Strangler thought you meant that Booker and Jericho weren't ready for a title push, and then wrote all that out... I agree with his points, nonetheless. :D

And to add my opinion on whose the better champ between Triple H and Brock, well, I don't know exactly because wrestling is "fake." I mean, one could say Brock is a better champ because he is a "real" athlete and brings prestige to the belt, while one could say Triple H is the better champ because more people know of him right now. But just for entertainment value, I think Brock is a lot more entertaining then Triple H is right now. They both suck on the mic, even if Brock sucks more, it doesn't matter because Triple H's talking isn't entertaining either. And in the ring, Triple H has had maybe one good match this title reign (well, counting when he held the title the last time too), while Brock has had a lot more good matches IMO. I also like Brock's program with Angle tons better than I liked Triple H's feud with Nash right now, and Booker and HBK before that.

[Professor S]

Yep, I thought you said they weren't ready. My bad. The way the power levels are right now, I think Booker and Jericho are the best bets to go over HHH.

Man, I should read a little closer before going off on my tirades... :D

[TheGame]

Originally posted by nWoCHRISnWo
I think The Strangler thought you meant that Booker and Jericho weren't ready for a title push, and then wrote all that out... I agree with his points, nonetheless. :D

And to add my opinion on whose the better champ between Triple H and Brock, well, I don't know exactly because wrestling is "fake." I mean, one could say Brock is a better champ because he is a "real" athlete and brings prestige to the belt, while one could say Triple H is the better champ because more people know of him right now. But just for entertainment value, I think Brock is a lot more entertaining then Triple H is right now. They both suck on the mic, even if Brock sucks more, it doesn't matter because Triple H's talking isn't entertaining either. And in the ring, Triple H has had maybe one good match this title reign (well, counting when he held the title the last time too), while Brock has had a lot more good matches IMO. I also like Brock's program with Angle tons better than I liked Triple H's feud with Nash right now, and Booker and HBK before that.

Personaly, I liked the Angle/Brock feud a lot more than any of HHH's recent feuds too. But right now, from the last four weeks of Raw vs te last four weeks of SD, I think HHH has simply out-preformed him.

the funny part is, people now are useing the same excuse for Brock that I used for HHH around 4 months ago, nobody to carry him in a feud. Brock just has a lot of guys on SD to eat for lunch, and nobody who I can even imagine beating him (w/o outside interference) at this point.

Every time Brock gets on the Mic and says "Here comes the pain" I get embarrased for him because he sounds very stupid. But I will admit, his in-ring preformance is better than HHH, but if you get me more excited about a match, it enhances how good it is.

I wish I would have never read a WM spoiler with Angles neck, or never heard about the Big Show feud before this last PPV. It really takes the fun out of a Brock match. (Even though the same could be said for HHH and goldberg, but he avoided being in an obvious winning situation by having a tag match)

But it's all just opinions anyway... no true facts when it comes to somthing being acted out, just what you or I like to see more.

[Professor S]

I thought the Brock/RVD feud had all kinds of possibilities and the crowd thought so too. Evidently Vince didn't... RVD is from ECW right? Thats what I thought, too.

The biggest thing contributing to the lack of ratings and interest now, though, is that the WWE has gotten back to how they were before WCW. Raw is now only used to build up PPVs, and its getting more and more obvious that this is the formula they are using. Remember when world titles changed on Raw? That doesn't happen anymore. Without competition the WWE has become apathetic and is content to use their TV shows as commercials and hype machines for their PPVs, and people are catching on. No one watches the TV, because they know that nothing really big is going to happen. Goldberg was unveiled, but did he wrestle right away? No, they held off until a PPV.

The WWE reached their heights because they treated almost every Raw like a PPV, because they had to beat the competition to survive. They need to get back to that mentallity, or we may see them seeing audiences like those in the early 90's again very soon.

[TheGame]

Originally posted by The Strangler
I thought the Brock/RVD feud had all kinds of possibilities and the crowd thought so too. Evidently Vince didn't... RVD is from ECW right? Thats what I thought, too.

The biggest thing contributing to the lack of ratings and interest now, though, is that the WWE has gotten back to how they were before WCW. Raw is now only used to build up PPVs, and its getting more and more obvious that this is the formula they are using. Remember when world titles changed on Raw? That doesn't happen anymore. Without competition the WWE has become apathetic and is content to use their TV shows as commercials and hype machines for their PPVs, and people are catching on. No one watches the TV, because they know that nothing really big is going to happen. Goldberg was unveiled, but did he wrestle right away? No, they held off until a PPV.

The WWE reached their heights because they treated almost every Raw like a PPV, because they had to beat the competition to survive. They need to get back to that mentallity, or we may see them seeing audiences like those in the early 90's again very soon.

I agree... in the late 90's Raw felt like it was a great show on it's own, now it feels more like some type of advertizing tool for PPVs. Well, it has allways been that way, but now it just seems even worse.

I really think turning the world title into the main story on both shows is kinda killing the shows too... It feels much more like an orginized sport than it did in the late 90s.

Another possibility for rating drop-offs could be that the fans are afraid of change... Think back to when WWE first started skidding,it's like Vince just kept making more and more changes and the shows fell deeper and deeper into a hole.

For myself, I think knowing too much backstage and behind the scened info is making the shows worse to me. I think I would have liked WM even more than I ended up liking it if I didn't care if HHH won or not, and if I didn't know Angle was going to lose no matter what. Little bits of info kills the shows at times for me personally, but that won't explain the ratings.

[nWoCHRISnWo]

And bringing in guys like Goldberg and Steiner, both of whom (wow, I can't believe I used the word "whom"... does it even fit there?) got the crowd to turn on them in their FIRST MATCH in WWE certainly doesn't help anything.

Didn't Vince used to make fun of WCW for having a bunch of old guys as their biggest stars? Now WWE has the same old guys but they're give years older...

And I kinda disagree with TheGame in one point, that being I believe that the world title should be the main focus on both shows. When feuding for a title, the main reason for the feud should be because the challenger wants the damn belt, that's why it's there in the first place. Start with that very simple formula, and then there can be added agendas as the feud carries on. If there's gonna be a feud between two guys because they used to be old friends and now have split, then don't make it for the damn belt. It seems like every feud now is for the stupidest reasons, or for no reasons at all. (Ie. Hogan/Vince, this feud is also a prime example of my second point.)

They really need to make the titles mean more than they do right now. I remember when Bret Hart wanted HIS IC Belt back, and his match with Piper at WM8 seemed to meant so, so much. Razor Ramon was screwed out of his IC Championship, and he wanted to prove he was the real IC Champ and he had a classic with HBK in a Ladder match. Then there were also matches like Austin vs Bret at WM13 (well, most of that whole feud) that weren't for the belt, and it worked perfectly. The story was that Austin was the new big thing, this tough SOB, had no respect for anything, and he thought babyface good guy Bret Hart was a piece of ****, so he said so. Bret comes back, and they have an awesome feud while the World title was in a different feud because it wasn't needed here. Then I also remember when number one contendership matches meant so much to me. Like in 1994 (I think) when there was a battle royal on Raw, and Razor and Rick Martel were the last two standing.

Now I just don't give a **** about title matches or number one contendership matches. They're all predictable (not just for people who read wrestling news on the internet either, any idiot knows who'll win most of the matches in WWE), or built up badly. In short, I want matches that mean something.

That's more of some of my good memories of wrestling than it is a thought out idea, but hey, I'm not telling you anything you don't already know.

[TheGame]

Well, I'm not saying to throw the world titles out of the windows as a form of a big story, but at the same time there HAS to be some type of escape from it.

I'm just tired of the double main event one-on-one matches for the belt, it just gets old. What happend to having a huge feud for the hell of it? I mean, there doesn't allways have to be that prize to push feuds.

What happend to factions? Ok, nWo failed miserably, but with Steph and Biscoff being so closely involved with the story I think they could at least pull off some type of faction with power. Bring back the corperation, do some cross brand fighting, do more trading between brands... SOMTHING.

I just feel the world titles aren't worth as much because they are split up... now they mean 50% of what the old WWE championship used to mean. When you had the belt before, you were at the top of the hill, and there is only room for one up there. Brock and HHH both look like they still have somthing to prove. This is why I hate the split to begin with... but I don't want to go off on that subject again.

I don't know what could help ratings now, there is just going to have to be some new Superstar to come up, or, WWE may go through a dark age again until it gets some competition with some huge financial backing.