Mania... best one I've ever seen

[TheGame]

(even though I have seen very few :p)

The biggest shock of the night was HHH winning imo... I fell off of my couch when that happend. I know very few have kicked out of a Pedigree but damn, what happend? There was too much cheating in that match too.

HBK vs Jericho was my favorite match of the night... followed by Vince vs Hogan. Rock/Austin 3 was aight... the ending really had me sitting on the edge of my seat nice long finish to a good match.

I'm shocked Brock/Angle was the main event. For the first 10 minutes of the match I thought it was pretty boring. The ending was cool though.... I wonder if Brock is OK, he looked like he was seriously injured.

that's about all I gotta say... oh, I can't forget, RRP's belly was HUGE. He let himself go bad this time.

[Professor S]

The Hogan/Vince match was HORRIBLE except for the ending. Does Vince understanbd that when he, as a non-wrestler, dominates Hogan who is one of his top card guys, he only succeeds in making his entire roster look bad? The 10 minute test of strength was so ludicrous I actually left the room. Vince's ego is out of control. The Piper run in was cool, but man is he FAT now. I hope they go somewhere with the run in and not just let it go unexplained. Oh wait, this is the WWE, of course it will never make sense.

What should have happened was for Hogan to dominate and bloody Vince, then let Roddy do the run in and brain Hogan with the pipe. Then it would MAKE SENSE for Vince to dominate Hogan until the inevitable "Hulk Up" Then Piper could come on Smackdown and explain himself, saying how everyone was arguing over who created the WWE, Vince or Hogan, when it was Piper who was in the ring with Hogan for years making him look good. The more the fans hated him, the more they loved Hogan. This of course would come in Piper's own signature half insane style of promo. This would end up in a Backlash grudge match brawl, giving Piper some time to lose the gut, where Hogan would finally pin Piper (he never has pinned Piper in all those years).

Jericho/Michaels was awesome. Jericho is the man.

HHH/Booker T - Ugh. They spent months building up Booker T to have him get punked out by HHH long after the finisher was applied. Booker T is done. Another victim of the HHH factor. I don't even know why I bother watching his matches anymore. They are long, plodding and you know who's going to win in the end. Pathetic.

Brock/Angle - Good match, and man did Brock overextend himself with the shooting star. If it was a little closer he could have nailed it. There is a reason Billy Kidman pulls the guy 2 inches from the post when he does his.

The rest... bleh. Even the 3 team tag match was awkward.

Definitely not the best IMO... The best ever would have to be either 17 or 3, with 3 winning narrowly. You just can't beat Savage/Steamboat for the IC strap. Best North American match ever, IMO

[Joeiss]

Wow... Brock got messed up on that moonsault... wow...


I thought it was pretty good. Not as good as last year's wrestlemania, IMO, but it was still very good.

[TheGame]

Originally posted by The Strangler
HHH/Booker T - Ugh. They spent months building up Booker T to have him get punked out by HHH long after the finisher was applied. Booker T is done. Another victim of the HHH factor. I don't even know why I bother watching his matches anymore. They are long, plodding and you know who's going to win in the end. Pathetic.

lol.. who's gonna win the Goldberg vs HHH match at the Raw PPV? ;)

Both of these guys are the same in this light... building sombody up just to get beat. I guess all his wins will be put to use in that case. And correct me if I'm wrong, but, didn't most people predict that HHH would lose that match with Booker? :p

[BreakABone]

Well, I still think that Wrestlemania x-Seven is the best WrestleMania of all-time, but this one was pretty good. Best PPV since SummerSlam IMO.
I found almost all the matches enjoyable except for the fact that Rey/Hardy was kept too short.
The Taker match was enjoyable, I don't know why but I'm a huge mark for Taker, and well I guess I would allow someone to dominate a handicap match if it's against Show/Train.
The tag match was just there not as good as their previous work.
HBK/Jericho was the match of the night IMO, one of the better matches in Mania history. I wished Jericho would have won or something, but the finish atleast didn't make Michaels look better than Jericho. It also sets up a rematch down the line which I believe Jericho will win. I also loved Shawn's entrance.
The women's match was ok, I liked that Trish won, but eh.
I don't know about the Hogan/Vince match, I agree with Strangler on this issue when Vince is able to dominate wrestlers (Triple H, Rock, Hogan, Flair) it makes them look weak and only helps them. Also will the Shane thing go anywherE?
I liked the Rock/Austin match, I thought it was the weakest of their 3 Mania matches, but when you are talking about high quality matches like that, being the worse still makes you better than most. A part of me wanted to see Austin win, but I'm glad the Rock finally got his victory.
Booker T/Triple H was an interesting match IMO, but the ending was completely anticlimatic and useless. I mean Booker T couldn't kick out of the pedigree after 1 minute wait?
The Angle/Lesnar match started off extremely boring, but really picked up near the end. I liked the setup for the Shooting Star Press, but it would have looked better if it hit it.

Best news of all, WrestleMania XX will return to it's origin. So I"m pumped to go next year, can't wait.

[nWoCHRISnWo]

Game: You must have not seen Wrestlemania 17. :D

Joeiss: It was a shooting star press, not a moonsault, just for the record.

And my opinions, overall I think this was a great PPV, and one of the best Wrestlemania's I've seen. This is only after seeing it live though, the other great Wrestlemania's imo are still great to rewatch today (like WM 3, 8, 17). We'll have to see how this one holds up, but for the first viewing, I have to say I loved it.

Rey/Hardy- Was way to short. Awesome choice for an opener, they did a lot in the five minutes they were allowed, and this was on pace for a pretty sweet match. Cool ending, reminiscent (or whatever the **** that word is) of Owen pinning Bret at WM X.

Taker match- First, I love Rollin as his entrance, so that was cool. Anyway this could have been a train wreck with Nathan Jones in there. As is stands, it was an okay match, not too bad at all. But how long can they hide the fact that Nathan Jones is ****ing terrible?

Women's match- Great match, one of the best Women's matches in a long while. Crappy ending.

Triple H/Booker T- Not great, not horrible. But the ending and who went over (Triple H...) is retarded. Anyone who says Triple H doesn't hold people down was proved wrong again and this time it's official. He hits his finisher, then waits like a minute, puts one arm over Book, and pins him. Booker T can rest well knowing he'll end up with RVD, Kane, Steiner, (and Jericho, although he worked himself back up to a respectable mid carder after a year).

HBK/Y2J- Simply put, AWESOME match. Jericho was the MVP of Wrestlemania. The look on his face when HBK was coming down the aisle, then giving him the finger was hilarious. The sweetness of the match all came to an abrupt end when Shawn ****ing Michaels actually won. Way to ****ing go. What a waste, that almost ruined Wrestlemania for me. Instead of putting one of the hardest workers over (who actually wrestles on house shows, Raw's, and every PPV) they have HBK win. Useless. I don't give a **** if there is a rematch with Jericho winning, this was plain bull****. When HBK got the pin, I was ****ing speechless. I almost wanna stop watch wrestling because of **** like this.

Triple Threat Tag match- Good match, nothing special. Whenever Benoit and/or Eddie were in the ring, I loved it. Not given enough time.

Austin/Rock- Not as good as their other WM matches, still pretty awesome. Right guy wins. Austin lost cleanly, HBK and Triple H should be taking notes. Rock looked like he knew that was his last Wrestlemania though, eh? He thanks Austin and talks to him for like two minutes after the match, pats his chest, soaks up the atmosphere for a long while (especially before delivering the last rock bottom), hugs his family, and is tearing up at the end.

20 Years in the making- Piper... WTF? That was out of nowhere. He sure looks like an overweight grandpa now. Match was entertaining for what it was. The scene of McMahon's bloody face grinning with pipe in hand slowly rising from under the ring was creepy, he looked like the devil himself. Hogan wins like he should have, but Vince dominated. Vince, like HBK and Triple H can kiss my ass. :)

Brock/Angle- Well, how ironic that the match everyone thought Angle might come out with a broken neck has Brock coming out with an injured neck. The match was pretty great, I liked the beginning of the match unlike everyone else here, and you couldn't even tell Angle was injured. That SSP was SICKENING. Appears to only have a concussion and sore neck, but after the match, he had purple cheeks, his eyes were glazed over, he looked scared as ****, he couldn't stand up, he couldn't even reach for his belt. Angle and Brock hugging after= cool moment.

[Joeiss]

Originally posted by nWoCHRISnWo
Joeiss: It was a shooting star press, not a moonsault, just for the record.


Oh, my mistake.

[mickydaniels]

But you have to agree, kurt Angle was too far for nothing to go wrong.

[nWoCHRISnWo]

Originally posted by mickydaniels
But you have to agree, kurt Angle was too far for nothing to go wrong.

Well, I have seen Brock hit a SSP from that far away with my own eyes before, but that was with looser ropes. It was also reported that Brock was practising the move a lot a few days before 'Mania and could consistently hit it from at least that far away, so I think it's more of a combination of him being nervous (it was WRESTLEMANIA afterall), him being fatigued, possibly kinda slipping before jumping if you noticed, and perhaps it was a little too far.

[fingersman]

I think Chris should send in an application to be wrestler. :D

[NYGiant]

Every year somebody says the Wrestlemania is the greatest ever....WWE sucks ass anyways

[Professor S]

Thank you for your enlightening contribution to this thread. Now go do something useful and play in traffic.

[mickydaniels]

Originally posted by NYGiant
Every year somebody says the Wrestlemania is the greatest ever....WWE sucks ass anyways


Regardless, that is atrue statement

[BreakABone]

Originally posted by mickydaniels
Regardless, that is atrue statement

Well in some forms yes, hyping a show as the best ever isn't just a trademark of the WWE/F, all major wrestling federations have done it, how do you expect people to wtach it if the folks say it was crappy?
And IMO, this was one of the best WrestleManias ever, not the best, but one of the best.
And folks opinion on the current state of the WWE shouldn't really effect their judgement on a show for the most part, I know it's unavoidable, but even with all it's problems, the WWE did manage a fairly above average show.

[NYGiant]

Originally posted by The Strangler
Thank you for your enlightening contribution to this thread. Now go do something useful and play in traffic.

Umm,yeah:rolleyes:

The WWE sucks.They need to reunite the rosters.The split just seemed to make Wrestlemania worse.Also,with HHH winning that just shows how dumb they are and that Booker T's people just aren't good enough. It seems no matter what happens the WWE will still suck.

[Professor S]

Now that was a good post. You sounded like your average wrestling basher in your first one. Thanks for listing your reasons why you think the WWE sucks.

I have to agree with you on the HHH issue. The next time I go to a show I'm going to bring a sign that says "For God's Sake Lay Down!!!"

But I have to admit that the product has improved in several ways of late, but also has declined in several ways also.

Good: Cruiserweights, Angle's angle with Brock, McMahon back on TV, Jericho's angle with HBK, Upcoming Goldberg vs. Rock (well, its good in theory at least)

Bad: Cat Fight Girls, Coach, Cruiserweights not getting any time, Angle injured, anything with Batista, A-Train, Big Show, Undertaker or that sack of crap Nathan Jones.

Speaking of Nathan Jones... I really think the WWE needs to make sure that their wrestlers CAN ACTUALLY WORK A MATCH before debuting them on TV. Just a thought...

[NYGiant]

one thing you left out in the bad is Triple H with the title.I think they should reunite the titles and the Champion fights on both shows like before.But that won't happen.

[Professor S]

I forgot HHH? LOL!!! Maybe he was too obvious for me to remember.

BTW, if you hate the WWE but like wrestling, check out Ring of Honor. The link to their site is listed in my sig. You won't be dissappointed:D

Just ask Chris

[TheGame]

Bad: Cat Fight Girls, Coach, Cruiserweights not getting any time, Angle injured, anything with Batista, A-Train, Big Show, Undertaker or that sack of crap Nathan Jones.

Meh, I agree on A-Train, Big Show, and Nathan Jones... but I personally enjoy watching Undertaker.

I forgot HHH? LOL!!! Maybe he was too obvious for me to remember

I still can't understand why HHH is bashed so much...

[Professor S]

Game, it has been pointed more times than I care to recall on this forum why HHH is a disease. And if you can't see it for yourself after the Booker T match at Mania, then you never will.

HHH will not lay down when it matters. THATS why he gets bashed.

[TheGame]

Originally posted by The Strangler
HHH will not lay down when it matters. THATS why he gets bashed.

I don't feel that that is a good enough excuse... if it is, we should be bashing Austin and Goldberg just as much right now... and maybe even Hogan.

Yeah, Austin lost at WM, big deal, that's why his carrer almost ended because he didn't want to lose to Brock or Hall. Given the power that HHH posseses, most wrestlers would end up just like him... winning every match they feel in thier head it makes sense for them to win, and rarely ever losing.

[Professor S]

Originally posted by TheGame
I don't feel that that is a good enough excuse... if it is, we should be bashing Austin and Goldberg just as much right now... and maybe even Hogan.

And am I a fan of Goldberg and Hogan? No. As for Austin, he has dropped many matches in PPV's, interference not withstanding. Also, Austin has spent most of his career as a face. Its his JOB to win the title from guys like HHH. HHH is a heel... a HEEL. Its his job to make the faces look good and bring them heat. All he does is kill the heat of EVERY WRESTLER HE GOES UP AGAINST. Please name me the last time HHH dropped a title on a PPV.

Yeah, Austin lost at WM, big deal, that's why his carrer almost ended because he didn't want to lose to Brock or Hall. Given the power that HHH posseses, most wrestlers would end up just like him... winning every match they feel in thier head it makes sense for them to win, and rarely ever losing.

What "makes sense" to you is frustrating and boring to everyone else. His matches suck. No one really cares about them because he can barely work anymore and he NEVER LOSES. Why care about a match when you know who's going to win in the end?

The entire build up for wrestlemenia was perfect for Booker T to win the title. The crowd was READY for Booker T to win the title. They WANTED him to win the title. Any booker in their right mind would have put the title on him that night and crown a new champion that the fans have been begging for. What did we get? The same old thing from the same old HHH. Hell, he even made sure to wait a long time to cover Booker to make sure he sucked any heat that Booker may have had out of his dead carcass. Oh, and BTW, HHH's Ric Flair impersonation doesn't help him out either.

Its almost as if HHH's job is to kill all up and coming talent in the WWE. The gets paired up against all the rising stars and newcomers (Jericho, RVD, Booker T, Steiner (ok, he sucks but still...), "name your superstar here") and squashes them, and then watches as they filter back down to the mid card.

I sat in my livingroom during wrestlemania and waited for Booker T to win. Finally HHH was going to do what was right for the business. All the signs were there and the timing was perfect.

What I got was a feeling that nothing is ever going to change at the top of the card. And we wonder why business is down.

[TheGame]

:lol:

I agree with you on WM at least... I think it was just HHH's time to give it up... But I guess if they are building up a proper Heel to feud with Goldberg, I guess HHH did need to win that match.

As for Austin, he has dropped many matches in PPV's, interference not withstanding. Also, Austin has spent most of his career as a face. Its his JOB to win the title from guys like HHH. HHH is a heel... a HEEL. Its his job to make the faces look good and bring them heat. All he does is kill the heat of EVERY WRESTLER HE GOES UP AGAINST. Please name me the last time HHH dropped a title on a PPV.

Well, HHH lost to Vince, Big Show, The Rock, Hogan, and HBK... as for dropping major titles (WWF, WWE, World)... and the last time was HBK and a few months earlier Hogan.

The entire build up for wrestlemenia was perfect for Booker T to win the title. The crowd was READY for Booker T to win the title. They WANTED him to win the title. Any booker in their right mind would have put the title on him that night and crown a new champion that the fans have been begging for. What did we get? The same old thing from the same old HHH. Hell, he even made sure to wait a long time to cover Booker to make sure he sucked any heat that Booker may have had out of his dead carcass. Oh, and BTW, HHH's Ric Flair impersonation doesn't help him out either.

lol... I hate Ric Flair.

As for the slow pin, that did kinda suck, but at the same time Flair was cheating the WHOLE match. By no means can that be considerd a fair victory. HHH, as a heel, doesn't look like he was supposed to win that match, because there was more than enough cheating.

Its almost as if HHH's job is to kill all up and coming talent in the WWE. The gets paired up against all the rising stars and newcomers (Jericho, RVD, Booker T, Steiner (ok, he sucks but still...), "name your superstar here") and squashes them, and then watches as they filter back down to the mid card.

nah, it's not HHH's job to kill them, it's thier job to make HHH look good ;)

I sat in my livingroom during wrestlemania and waited for Booker T to win. Finally HHH was going to do what was right for the business. All the signs were there and the timing was perfect.

What I got was a feeling that nothing is ever going to change at the top of the card. And we wonder why business is down.

That wasn't really a top of the card match... that's why I had feelings right before the match that Booker may just lose... If it were the main event or at least in the top two matches of the show, then I would have expected more of a fan pleasing ending.

I mean, when you really take a hard look at HHH's belt, what does it even mean right now? When is the last time HHH's match was even made to be the main event? Rock and Austin may have lost the belt more times, but they at least lost in a big main event like fashon. What was the HHH match? Not even in the top four.

[Professor S]

I have a hard time comprehending your excuses for HHH's behavior. The majority of the losses that you refrerenced were before HHH's injury. I will agree HHH was one of the best in the biz before he tore his quad. Now? Doubtful. As for putting over HBK... now you're stretching. HBK is one of HHH's best friends plus HBK is a part timer at the end of his career with no chance of taking HHH's spot.

As for Fllair's interference, it was minimal. He basically tried to yell at the ref and push Booker T a couple of times. If you want to keep Booker's heat, Flair brains him with a chair.

Not top of the card??? HHH has a WORLD TITLE! Let me repeat that... a WORLD TITLE. Thats top of the card. Also, the value of the belt is a direct reflection fo the value of the wrestler in the fan's eyes, IMO.

Laugh all you want, but HHH's backstage shananigans are slowly killing the WWE's talent pool, which is weak enough as it is with the roster split. HHH should be helping to elevate talent, much like the great Mick Foley did to elevate HHH, instead of seemingly doing everything in his power to bury younger talent.

[TheGame]

Originally posted by The Strangler
I have a hard time comprehending your excuses for HHH's behavior. The majority of the losses that you refrerenced were before HHH's injury. I will agree HHH was one of the best in the biz before he tore his quad. Now? Doubtful. As for putting over HBK... now you're stretching. HBK is one of HHH's best friends plus HBK is a part timer at the end of his career with no chance of taking HHH's spot.

You had a hard time because I wasn't making excuses...

As for Fllair's interference, it was minimal. He basically tried to yell at the ref and push Booker T a couple of times. If you want to keep Booker's heat, Flair brains him with a chair.

Didn't Flair crack him early in the match? and also, I remember flair breaking up some pins by putting HHH's leg on the ropes. I may have it confused with another match (seriously, I have been seeing too much wrestling in the last 10 days)

Not top of the card??? HHH has a WORLD TITLE! Let me repeat that... a WORLD TITLE. Thats top of the card. Also, the value of the belt is a direct reflection fo the value of the wrestler in the fan's eyes, IMO.

I think the belt's value is reflected by not only who has the belt and who he is defending it against, it's also based off of how much the WWE is willing to promote the belt. HHH might as well be wearing the IC title right now, because for the last 6 months that belt has yet to see the lights of a main event.

Is that an excuse for HHH not giving it up? No... but it's defenently not the same as having the "real" WWE title. It's not the same, thus it won't be treated the same by HHH. Like I said before, Austin and Rock have lost before, but it wouldn't be in the same low fashon as HHH because they were in the main event.

Also take into account that HHH has control over the story to some extent... he feels that he is bigger than the World Title, because the world title isn't being promoted as being the "real" top of the industry. If it were promoted like it was the absolute biggest prize there is in the WWE, methinks HHH would lose a lot more often... but in todays Split up WWE that just isn't true anymore... now that belt is about equal to the IC Belt back in the day.

[Professor S]

And the reason why those HHH is defending the title against AREN'T elevating the belt, is because HHH isn't elevating those he is defending it against.

But ok, fine... you're right and the rest of the wrestling world, including those WORKING in the WWE right now are wrong. Its obvious you won't listen to reason on this issue. Seriously, I understand being a mark for a wrestler, but when you start deluding yourself to the obvious is when you should separate yourself and look at the situation for what it is.

[nWoCHRISnWo]

Originally posted by The Strangler
BTW, if you hate the WWE but like wrestling, check out Ring of Honor. The link to their site is listed in my sig. You won't be dissappointed:D

Just ask Chris

You owe it to yourself to watch some ROH.

Originally posted by TheGame
Meh, I agree on A-Train, Big Show, and Nathan Jones... but I personally enjoy watching Undertaker.

I agree somewhat, I can see how someone would like to watch 'Taker, but the other three just suck. Unless they have Big Show doing a comedy routine, he's pretty funny and it's better than a Big Show match.

I still can't understand why HHH is bashed so much...

Well he hasn't had a great match in years, he has been in HORRIBLE feuds for a long time now (Katie Vick, Steiner, etc.), he never EVER puts anyone over (see Wrestlemania), whoever he does feud with ends up being in midcard hell (Kane, RVD, Steiner, Jericho but he recovered because he kicks ass), he gets more time than anyone else does on the mic usually, and it's always boring as hell.

I don't feel that that is a good enough excuse... if it is, we should be bashing Austin and Goldberg just as much right now... and maybe even Hogan.

Most internet wrestling fans DO hate Austin, Goldberg, and Hogan. There's a big difference however... Austin has EARNED whatever he gets in my eyes. He MADE himself, nobody did **** for him and he turned himself into the biggest star in wrestling. He made WWF millions upon millions. Hogan is like Austin in that they were the two biggest draws ever. Goldberg is a piece of **** and I hold him in the same regard as Triple H, but worse. If Triple H turned business around for WWE, then it'd be a little different at least, but as it stands he's not drawing **** and has no business doing what he's doing.

lol... I hate Ric Flair.

I hate you. :) I will assume you haven't seen much/any of Flair from 88/89, or anytime pretty much '95 or so.

[Joeiss]

Goldberg was cool until he kicked Bret Hart in the head.

[Professor S]

Goldberg is a 6'5" 280 lb sack of suck. You could take any big man, even Bill DeMotte who was Bill's first victim (talk about double meanings), and give him the push that they gave Goldberg and you'd have the same result.

He couldn't sell a bag of hundreds for 5 cents.

[TheGame]

Originally posted by nWoCHRISnWo
I hate you. :) I will assume you haven't seen much/any of Flair from 88/89, or anytime pretty much '95 or so.

Your assumption is correct :p

My first encounter with Flair was in the WCW when he came back and wanted to be presendent... the fans were all on his sack, and me, being the big Hogan fan, hated him. (Not to mention when he got the power he turned into a huge heel)

I have never found a reason to like him... ever. :D

[TheGame]

Originally posted by The Strangler
Goldberg is a 6'5" 280 lb sack of suck. You could take any big man, even Bill DeMotte who was Bill's first victim (talk about double meanings), and give him the push that they gave Goldberg and you'd have the same result.

Well, Goldberg was a football player for the Atlanta Falcons, so of course the home town WCW was gonna give the guy a push :p

I dunno if it would have been the same, but they probably could have taken it on with a lot of different guys.

[BreakABone]

Well, Triple H has an interview over at WWE.com, and for the first time in a long time, I somewhat agree with the guy. Even though he doesn't help matters much, but the fact is the WWE can't push someone who isn't ready for a push, but they continue to do it anyhow, A-Train, Big Show, Nathan Jones, the list goes on, but i's up to the wrestlers to use the chance they got to make themselves shine.

Look at John Cena, I mean sure he was getting a decent push, but look how much his career has elevated since Halloween when he acted like Vanilla Ice, he may even get a shot at the WWE Title at BackLash.

But the problem is, people on SmackDown are allowed that opporunity, look at Matt Hardy, he went from Raw to SmackDown! and look how great the Mattitude gimmick has taken off, he is even challenging Brock Lesnar next week. I know it's not usually the face's job, but exactly how many mid-carders you see talking smack about Triple H week in and week out? Then look at Lesnar, who got two up and coming supserstas gunning for him.

Or take Hurricane, who was basically buried when he went to Raw and get invovled with the whole Katie Vicks/Kane/Triple H thing, his career was basically on a standstill. Then he hooked up with the Rock after No Way Out, and the fans started to care again, he even got a victory over the Rock, but then he fights Triple H and that is all gone. And I never did get how Triple H considers himself in the same league as the Rock or an Austin or even a Hogan, Triple H isn't the reason WrestleMania breaks attendance records, Triple H isn't a ratings draw, and probably never was, yet he has this huge ego.

[TheGame]

Originally posted by BreakABone
But the problem is, people on SmackDown are allowed that opporunity, look at Matt Hardy, he went from Raw to SmackDown! and look how great the Mattitude gimmick has taken off, he is even challenging Brock Lesnar next week. I know it's not usually the face's job, but exactly how many mid-carders you see talking smack about Triple H week in and week out? Then look at Lesnar, who got two up and coming supserstas gunning for him.

Exactly... on Rawit seems that nobody is really making a change that fans canadapt to. But you can't blame HHH for that, they got older people on the show who have completly defined themselves by now. Booker is the same Booker, Jericho is the same jericho, HBK is the same HBK, Steiner is the same Steiner... hell, HHH himself has evolved more than any of them over the last 6 months! and I'm not saying they can't make a change, look at The Rock...

Is HHH holding them down from making a change in attitude? No, he isn't. Sombody is going to have to start pulling some big stunts to get fans attention, then you get writers attention, then you wind up with a belt.

Right now, looking over the past 3 years... what guy on Raw would it really make sense for HHH to lose to? Nobody, because nobody changed. Rock and Goldberg are the only two who really pose a threat when loking at the past. Maybe even HBK... Why is it that he isn't fighting these guys?

Winning the belt isn't how you fget a push, getting a reaction from the fans is. I will admit, HHH should have lost the belt (w/o cheating from either party) at WM, and regained it at the Next with Flair Cheating for him... THEN go into the Goldberg rivalry.

Hell, I'm upset that Goldberg is even coming back now, because him coming back can be used as a scapegoat for Booker T losing at WM... now I still don't know if it was 100% HHH's fault, or if the writers set it up this way.

And I never did get how Triple H considers himself in the same league as the Rock or an Austin or even a Hogan, Triple H isn't the reason WrestleMania breaks attendance records, Triple H isn't a ratings draw, and probably never was, yet he has this huge ego.

lol, never is such a strong word... I dunno, were the ratings better in the McMahon Helmsley Era, or in the year he was injured?

Also, if he were not a ratings draw, why do you think the fans exploded so much when he came back from his injury? WWE can't make the fans cheer, they were just fans of HHH... His popularity did drop post-injury, but so did the WWE's. Can't blame everything on the man.

[Ravishing Rick Rude]

You put HHH on smackdown, he'd be doing the same thing, why, he's banging the boss's daughter, only difference, he'd be completely overshadowed by those superstars on Smackdown,


Angle, Benoit, Lesnar, Edge, Etc...

Anywho, my only beef is his hyprocricy towards the business, he wants what's best for it.....so long as it doesn't affect him directly.

It's a sham, everyone knows it, but they can't do **** about it unless he's outta power.

[nWoCHRISnWo]

Originally posted by TheGame
Right now, looking over the past 3 years... what guy on Raw would it really make sense for HHH to lose to? Nobody...

And who's fault is that? Jericho in my honest opinion could have been the next Rock, he was getting over BIG TIME as a face, and what happens? He starts a feud with Triple H. It basically put his career back fifty steps and he's never been the same since. He's lost constantly to Triple H, never even looked like a threat in their feuds, was WALKING TRIPLE H'S DOG and was being Stephanie's bitch instead of being a threat to Triple H in their last feud. What I found completely amazing is when Jericho and Triple H faught in a HIAC match, not for a title or anything, and Triple H still won that! I mean come on, how does that help ANYONE?

Then look at RVD. He was getting huge crowd reactions for the longest time. He was main eventing or fighting with the biggest stars up until he feuds with Triple H. Now where is he? In a tag team with Kane fighting on Heat. Had RVD been allowed to actually won the feud with Triple H, then he might be seen as a legitimate threat to guys like Rock, Austin (who RVD beat in a singles match by the way already), etc.

And this one is going further back, but just another example of Triple H making other guys look like weak little ****s... Remember when Test was gonna marry Steph? Then evil Triple H makes the evil plan and marries Steph while she's out cold. Okay, nothing wrong at all there. But THEN, Steph reveals she actually was in on the plan... Alright... But then, Triple H beats the crap outta Test. Again. And again. Triple H stole his fiance, and then beat him on several occasions. That just doesn't make sense.

Notice how Triple H only puts over the people who aren't a threat to take his place? Shawn Michaels got the title off him, but Shawn Michaels is his best friend, and Shawn Michaels poses no threat whatsoever to Triple H's spot. Hogan beat Trips, but that didn't matter at all, Hogan's fifty years old.

Also, if he were not a ratings draw, why do you think the fans exploded so much when he came back from his injury? WWE can't make the fans cheer, they were just fans of HHH... His popularity did drop post-injury, but so did the WWE's. Can't blame everything on the man.

The fans go crazy almost anytime a wrestler comes back from a long time off. Did you see the pop for Piper at Wrestlemania? Hogan STILL gets pops BIGGER than Triple H got when he returned, and Hogan gets them like every night. When Angle returns, he will get a huge pop. But in reality, the live crowd reaction doesn't matter THAT much at all. If the ratings don't go up any, then it doesn't matter how loud the crowd cheers, because you aren't drawing anything.

Anyhoo, on a little bit of a different topic, Triple H, the heel, gets face pops... And that's not a good thing. He belittles most of his opponents and then beats the absolute **** outta them to prove that he is better than them. Laughs at them, slaps them around, makes jokes about them, so of course the crowd's gonna cheer for him. At WM, Booker barely got cheered at all because nobody believed he would beat Triple H, and he didn't.

[Professor S]

Guys, don't bother arguing HHH with The Game. I think he still remembers the HHH before the injury, and is blocking the current frightened, backstabbing, glory hog from his consciousness.

BTW, I thought the interview was hilarious, especially then Goldberg part. I'm sure that Goldberg just started cursing at HHH for no reason... sure... tell me another one. People just don;t do that, even if they are meatheads like Goldberg.

Also, apparently every wrestler in the WWE needs to earn HHH's respect to be considered a top guy. Who the f*** does he think he is? Booker earned HHH's respect???

Booker T was a tag team champion back when HHH was still living in mid card hell as "Terra Risin" in WCW. Booker was an 8 time tag team champion back when HHH was Hunter Hearst Helmsly, walking to the ring in riding boots and a rediculous red jacket and bowing everywhere. Booker was putting on classics with Chris Benoit back when HHH was chopping his crotch and appearing in black face in DX.

HHH needs to get his head on straight and fast, or else there is going to be NO ONE in HHH's twisted mind that deserves to pin him in a match, and he won't have to rop matches becasue his fake titted girlfiend will just cry to daddy.

Hey Hunter... its a work... LAY THE F**K DOWN!!!

[TheGame]

You guys really seem to care for Jericho and his feelings... kinda touches my heart.

Also, apparently every wrestler in the WWE needs to earn HHH's respect to be considered a top guy. Who the f*** does he think he is? Booker earned HHH's respect???

Booker T was a tag team champion back when HHH was still living in mid card hell as "Terra Risin" in WCW. Booker was an 8 time tag team champion back when HHH was Hunter Hearst Helmsly, walking to the ring in riding boots and a rediculous red jacket and bowing everywhere. Booker was putting on classics with Chris Benoit back when HHH was chopping his crotch and appearing in black face in DX.

Well, what was HHH supposed to say? If you were in HHH's position, and you just beat Booker, what would you say? Hell, if you successfully defended any type of championship from a more experienced person what would you say?

Was HHH fighting for Booker's respect? I don't think so.

Booker T was big in the dark ages of WCW...and he didn't help anything. HHH was a part of DX... if that wasn't enough of a ratings draw, we can say that in WWE's peak, HHH was a big part of the company. In WCW's peak, where was Booker T? In the mid card, if not lower.

HHH needs to get his head on straight and fast, or else there is going to be NO ONE in HHH's twisted mind that deserves to pin him in a match, and he won't have to rop matches becasue his fake titted girlfiend will just cry to daddy.

Hey Hunter... its a work... LAY THE F**K DOWN!!!

...

......

If no one deserves to pin him in a match, why does he continue to cheat over and over in main event matches. If he felt that nobody should be able to pin him, why won't he take it to the next level... legitament victories over all opponents?

Also, why wouldn't he cry about losing to Hogan? Besides Vince and HHH, Hogan hasn't had many big one on one victories in this comeback that come to mind.

Getting pissed at HHH for Vince's choices is just stupid... HHH doesn't own the WWE, he doesn't make any final decisions determining if he keeps the belt or not. If Vince or a powerful backstage writer believed that HHH should have lost to Jericho or Booker, he would have... and I doubt he would have ran home and beat his wife like Austin because he isn't getting his way.

Notice how Triple H only puts over the people who aren't a threat to take his place? Shawn Michaels got the title off him, but Shawn Michaels is his best friend, and Shawn Michaels poses no threat whatsoever to Triple H's spot. Hogan beat Trips, but that didn't matter at all, Hogan's fifty years old.

A threat to take his place... what do you mean by this. He doesn't lose to sombody who could possibly become a domanent wrestler in the industry?

What makes him different from Austin...

Austin for the last 5 years was in one of three places... 1) he had the belt 2) he was fighting for the belt 3) he was in a story that was much bigger than the belt itself. He has to lose to Brock and Hall then he automaticly runs home like a little bitch.

If any wrestler had the backstage pull of HHH they would be the same product.... the fact is, Vince needs to stop listening to him if he feels HHH's actions are bad for the buisness. But, instead, Vince doesn't think of HHH as a poison much like you do, so Vince allows HHH the have control over his own fate.

It is HHH's ultimate decision to win or lose, or to crawl under a rock.. but like all wrestlers and athletes alike, he wants to win. So that takes the ultimate decision off of his shoulders until he feels he has nothing to prove anymore... but until that time comes HHH isn't responceable for his actions on stage, Vince is.

You can say "HHH is a big headed fool" "HHH is an ass who doesn't want to lay down for anybody" but if you give ANY wretler in the industry who feels they still have somthing to prove, and they would be no different.

Anyhoo, on a little bit of a different topic, Triple H, the heel, gets face pops... And that's not a good thing. He belittles most of his opponents and then beats the absolute **** outta them to prove that he is better than them. Laughs at them, slaps them around, makes jokes about them, so of course the crowd's gonna cheer for him. At WM, Booker barely got cheered at all because nobody believed he would beat Triple H, and he didn't

if fans were truly sick of HHH winning, they would start booing him and chanting out crap to him like they do to Vince and Angle. If he's really that bad for the show, why cheer for him?

He obviously has his live fans... and we can't really say if most of the people who tuning into WWE television hate him or not.

[Professor S]

Ugh, I give up. You're hopeless. I hope you're happy supporting one of the main reasons the WWE sucks right now. Hell, maybe he'll keep the title for several more years and then when the WWE goes under you can be ecstatic that he retired as the Champ. Go HHH. Keep bangin' the bosses daughter and burying every young talent that can run circles around you in the ring. Those Indian Deathlocks are SUPER and not BORING after 5 minutes at all. Yay. :rolleyes:

There is one thing I'm sure of, and that is that you have no idea how someone gets over in the wrestling business.

[TheGame]

Originally posted by The Strangler
Ugh, I give up. You're hopeless. I hope you're happy supporting one of the main reasons the WWE sucks right now.

That's your opinion... in my opinion the WWE doesn't suck right now. Is it at an all time high? Hell no, but is it at an all time low? I'd say no to that too.

I guess it would suck to be you, I mean, if you hate HHH WWE probably would be hard to watch right now. IMO, HHH isn't wrestling at near his best, but one guy isn't taking away from anything. I'd much rather him be the champ than Booker or Steiner... but like you know, I'm a fan. I just don't see how having any of the guys he has faced in recent times becoming champ would help anyhing.

I doubt that having Booker or Jericho as champ would increase ratings... hell, maybe I'm wrong, maybe the should would get some type of miricle jump... but I simply don't see it hapening.

There is one thing I'm sure of, and that is that you have no idea how someone gets over in the wrestling business.

As far as I know, there is no cut and dry definition to how a wrestler gets over... some guys like the Brock Lensars, Goldbergs, and Big Shows just get a meal ticket wherever they go and start on top... and other work thier way up. It takes work both ways, but if the writers don't give you that break you just won't get it.

[Professor S]

Let me put it this way: No one has ever gotten over by losing to someone who cheats without ever overcoming those odds to win. NO ONE. Cheating or no, a loss is a loss is a loss. Piper cheated constantly, but he never did screw Hogan out of the title did he? Of course not, BECAUSE THAT WOULD HAVE KILLED HOGAN'S HEAT.

The time tested angle is as follows: Heel is champ. Heel cheats face to win over and over again. Face wins title at big money event. Face is over and draws money with another heel or continues feud. Booker should have gone over, there is no reason on God's green earth why he shouldn't have, besides backstage politics and ego. NONE.

Here's how it works with HHH: Heel is champ. Heel cheats to win over and over and then. Heel buries poo slob who he was working with at a big money event. Heel faces next chump stupid enough to get buried by him thinking they'll be elevated.

The fact is HHH has gotten over by taking, and has given little to nothing back. He has gotten over by being booked as a legitimate champ and by going over a lot of big names. I have no problem with that. But legitimate and depressingly and boringly unbeatable are 2 different things. I feel sad for Mick Foley that he spent the end of his career basically creating this backstage monster.

Let me ask you this: If you were a WWE worker right now, and you saw what has happened to those who worked HHH, would you want to work him or try and get over while avoiding him?

As for blaming things on the writing team... WHO RUNS THE DAMN WRITING TEAM????? I believe her name is Stephanie McMahon, HHH's knob slobber. There couldn't possibly be any conflict of interest there, could there? NAWWWW.:rolleyes:

[TheGame]

Originally posted by The Strangler
Let me put it this way: No one has ever gotten over by losing to someone who cheats without ever overcoming those odds to win. NO ONE. Cheating or no, a loss is a loss is a loss. Piper cheated constantly, but he never did screw Hogan out of the title did he? Of course not, BECAUSE THAT WOULD HAVE KILLED HOGAN'S HEAT.

Agreed... but you are taling about a rivalry with no equals... in that situation Face>Heel... but in a HHH situation Heel>face... so how exactly do they make HHH lose with cheating involved?

To smash HHH's heat he needs to lose a match w/o any cheating from his party, or even cheating from the Face's side. Hasn't happend yet, they need to tie him into a cage and ban Flair from ringside... if he were to win a match like this now it would shake me even more than the Booker Match.

Just a question, lets say HHH loses a match.... what happens to HHH after this event? In today's story there is no room for him anywhere else but the title Race... I thought there would be room elsewhere, but now that Rock/Austin are gone he can't really have a big match away from the belt.

The time tested angle is as follows: Heel is champ. Heel cheats face to win over and over again. Face wins title at big money event. Face is over and draws money with another heel or continues feud. Booker should have gone over, there is no reason on God's green earth why he shouldn't have, besides backstage politics and ego. NONE.

Agreed

at WM it is the perfect time to hand the torch, if Booker would have made an exciting champ or not, I think he still should have won that match.

I have to go to class.. I'll be back to respond to the second half of your post.

-EDIT-

Good, apparently you didn't make it on time to realize I made half a post.

Here's how it works with HHH: Heel is champ. Heel cheats to win over and over and then. Heel buries poo slob who he was working with at a big money event. Heel faces next chump stupid enough to get buried by him thinking they'll be elevated.

this has only been true for the last three-four months.

The fact is HHH has gotten over by taking, and has given little to nothing back. He has gotten over by being booked as a legitimate champ and by going over a lot of big names. I have no problem with that. But legitimate and depressingly and boringly unbeatable are 2 different things. I feel sad for Mick Foley that he spent the end of his career basically creating this backstage monster.

unbeatable... please don't mank me laugh, HHH is no less beatable than Brock, our other champ.

Let me ask you this: If you were a WWE worker right now, and you saw what has happened to those who worked HHH, would you want to work him or try and get over while avoiding him?

If I was a young RVD/Rey Mysterio type, of course I'd try to avoid him, because he wouldn't accept me beating him... and more importantly the writers and Vince wouldn't accept it.

If I were in Booker's shoes, what choice is there? Either stay back and be a joke with Goldust, or be moved up into the ranks of a potential champion... and have my first title bout at WM. Win or lose this is a better direction than where Booker was going before hand.

Personaly, I'm a firm hater of the shows splitting up. I think the split is everything that's wrong with the WWE right now. Vince thinks he has more show carriers then he acctually has.

Like I said earlier in my post, HHH loses, then what? If there were no split there would be plenty of superstars out there for him to crush or lose to w/o having to even be the holder of the "ticket" that gets a wrestler over. HHH could be out there for months and not have any encounter with the champ, and after losing the belt he would have a lot to fall back on.

In Raw's state HHH is the king of the hill, is that his fault? maybe... but I can't help thinking what would he be doing right now if he didn't have the belt and HBK took it, or Steiner, or Booker. How can he even fit in with the story w/o going for the belt with Raw's limited roster?

he's not good enough on the mic to be a side show... much like Goldberg...

If you could have taken control of Raw in late 2002, where would you have put HHH in the story, how would you have worked him out of the belt or his current domanence?