If someone held a gun to your head...

[Ice006]

If someone held a gun to your head, and asked you whether or not you believed in God, and for the sake of the argument, you believe, and by saying 'yes' you would be shot, would you still say yes?

I believe in God, but there's no way I'd say yes. Sure, I'd be lying, but it's not like I'm lying to God, I'm just lying to some psyscho who doesn't have any respect for life. My girlfriend's like "I'd say yes. At least then if you die, you go to heaven, because you didn't deny God".

I say (well, thought) "Bullsh*t!". That's almost as bad as a suicide bomber, willing to die pointlessly for their god. If you lie just once to save your life, imagine all the stuff you can accomplish, religiously or otherwise in the rest of your life, that you would have otherwise wasted.

Or even better yet, if someone asked you whether you believed in God, and held a gun to your MOTHER'S head (let's, for the sake of the argument say you really loved your mother... not that I don't, but I mightn't be talking for everyone here), what would your answer be then? I think I'll have to put that second question there to my girlfriend...

[GameKinG]

I think the bible says you shouldnt lie about your faith even when persecuted.

[Jonbo298]

This is kind of a stupid question. I won't give a response to this. Other people can offer their own response.

[Ice006]

Good point Gameking. It would be too easy to say yes if you were going to be the victim. That's why I thought "Hang on, what if it wasn't YOUR life you were messing with...". How many people would you kill just to 'tell the truth'.

And aparrently the first situation happened once (according to some email I got ages ago... or maybe I read it on the 'net). Anyway, some chick apparently had a gun held to her head, got asked that question, said yes, and got shot. So yeah...

[GameKinG]

One girl in columbine (sp?) was asked 'the question' by one of the shooters. She said yes, and she was shot. Thought it kind of pertained to the post...

That took guts, yet I dont think you would be 'disqualified' from heaven, if it be there, had you said no out of fear. Though if the person shot you anyway after you said no, then your chances crash and burn...eternaly...

[GameMaster]

By saying no, and lying about my faith and belief in God, in order to save my life or the life of another, God would praise me with good fortune and well being for the rest of my life on Earth. Why you ask? Because I went as far as to lie because I appreciate and value the life he gave to me or other person being threatened. He would commence me personally for my bravery. And he would find it flattering that I would do such a thing for a gift he gave to me.

[Ice006]

Absolutely GameMaster! They're my thoughts exactly!
The fact that Christians appreciate life is what distinguishes us from those terrorists and the like. Otherwise, our killing in the name of God makes us just as bad as them.

[The Duggler]

Originally posted by GameKinG
I think the bible says you shouldnt lie about your faith even when persecuted. That is another example why religions are to control the population. Anyways, I don't beleive in any form of god so I wouldn't have any problem.

[Happydude]

i would answer no simply because i don't beleive in god :p

[Perfect Stu]

Originally posted by happydude666
i would answer no simply because i don't beleive in god :p

then the question doesn't apply to you...

I would say 'No'...

My life comes before not lying about my belief in God.

And after I said "No", and the person drops the gun to their side, I would turn around, take the gun, hold it to their head and say:

"Answer the following question truthfully with 'YES': Are you dead?"

[TheGame]

This question is weird.. because, if they asked me that question I would have to believe that they won't shoot me if I were to say no.

Now, if it's a person who I think would shoot either way, I'd say "yes". The thing is, he would have to kill me, because if they didn't I'd kill him.

[Xantar]

Another slightly different question:

People seem to think that you shouldn't get yourself killed just for the sake of saying "yes" to a question. But was the girl at Columbine who answered "yes" (and die for it) somehow admirable anyway?

I don't believe in God, but I still found her actions admirable. Think about the courage she would have needed to do that. She's a teenager, her whole life in front of her. She has dreams and ambitions about what she's going to do in the next ten, twenty, thirty years. Maybe she's looking forward to college. Maybe she has a profession that she wants to enter.

As she was kneeling there with a gun to her head, she had all of that in front of her. She had to have been thinking that she was too young to die. But she was willing to throw it all away. Maybe it was because she wanted to see Heaven and didn't think she would make it if she lost her faith. Or maybe she was demonstrating that the material goods of her life just weren't that important compared to her spirituality.

We can talk about what we would do and what we should do and even what others should have done. But even I can agree that whether this girl at Columbine did the right thing or not, there was something about her to be admired.

[Jewels]

Originally posted by Jonbo298
This is kind of a stupid question. I won't give a response to this. Other people can offer their own response.

me either, this topic is kind of pointless and has no really good answers for every way that you want it to go.

[The Duggler]

Xantar, maybe that girl from colombine didn't know that if she answered yes that she would get shot.

[BlueFire]

In all honesty, I would probably say no.

[gekko]

Originally posted by Ice006
The fact that Christians appreciate life is what distinguishes us from those terrorists and the like.

Are you saying that non-Christians don't appreciate life? Some things are worth dying for, and to many people, religion is one of those things. Christians had a ton of martyrs. And those who are truly Christian would say 'yes' to that question. the belief if that you go to heaven and be at peace with God, and by saying 'No,' you turn your back from God and on a road to hell.

But then again, GT doesn't seem to have many religious folks.

[Mushlafa]

Originally posted by happydude666
i would answer no simply because i don't beleive in god :p

ditto....

[Jason1]

If I knew he was going to shoot me if I said yes, you bet Id say no. I believe in god but not enough to die for it. Its that simple.

[Rndm_Perfection]

If saying "yes" is what it'd take to get into heaven, then odds are you've already lost your ticket to heaven in previous incidents.

If there is a heaven, and if it is that difficult to get into, then there's not a soul that lived past the age thirteen who got into heaven.

As I recall, God forgives human actions. For no reason, would one be denied heaven, and purged into the depths of hell just because the person would make one lie about faith for a higher cause.

I would say "No"... and then waltz off.

[Joeiss]

I would say yes. It would be cool to see what happens after I die.

[Ice006]

But in that group situation, even if you were a strong Christian, and got 20 people killed (and you go home shaken, but alive), you'd feel much regret for the rest of your life. Unless of course you felt you were right 100%, in which case you have little respect for life.

[Jason1]

Originally posted by Ice006
But in that group situation, even if you were a strong Christian, and got 20 people killed (and you go home shaken, but alive), you'd feel much regret for the rest of your life. Unless of course you felt you were right 100%, in which case you have little respect for life.

If I knew I prevented my head from being blown off by saying NO, I would feel no regret, at all. I would feel happy about my decesion, if anything.

[Bond]

What the hell is this?

Worst Situation Game Show?

Give me a break...

[manasecret]

Yeah, Xantar I doubt that the girl knew at the time. You're trying to make her seem more noble than she was really trying to be. If you have a gun to your head in the midst of a bunch of confusion, and then someone pops that question, you're probably not going to think about what the good answer was. The truth probably just pops out.

[GameKinG]

Your goal as a christian is to be like Jesus and be with God. Jesus wouldnt lie, and the sooner you die, the sooner you are with God...

Of course nobody will accept Jesus and commit suicide, but you should still tell the truth.

And of course the girl wasnt trying to be a hero. She was just doing what she felt was right (as a christian, it was) and some crazy guy didnt like that....

[Xantar]

Well, ok. So maybe I got it wrong. But the newspapers were sure making her look brave back when it happened.

The point still stands: if someone did that, I would find their action admirable even though I don't actually believe in God myself. I was trying to point out a paradox in this situation. Many of us think that saying "No" would be okay, maybe even right no matter what you actually believe in. But if we were to actually hear about somebody answering "Yes," and I mean that this person did so fully knowing that it would lead to death, we would think them very noble.

Human morality can be pretty strange sometimes...

[manasecret]

Originally posted by Xantar
Well, ok. So maybe I got it wrong. But the newspapers were sure making her look brave back when it happened.

That's what I expect from the newspapers. Anyhow, I still think the girl was noble just for dying in such a tragedy.


The point still stands: if someone did that, I would find their action admirable even though I don't actually believe in God myself. I was trying to point out a paradox in this situation. Many of us think that saying "No" would be okay, maybe even right no matter what you actually believe in. But if we were to actually hear about somebody answering "Yes," and I mean that this person did so fully knowing that it would lead to death, we would think them very noble.

Human morality can be pretty strange sometimes...

I would find it very noble if someone upheld their belief in favor of their life.

But if, say, your mother was the one with the gun to her head and you were the one being asked the question, I think it would be far nobler to say No and sacrifice your soul to hell for your mother's life than to say Yes to uphold your beliefs.

[TheGrimReaper]

I would....

It's hard. I mean we can talk about it, we can dream about it, but we can never know unless we experience it.

Personally, I would say yes. I would have to build up the courage but...my spirit tells me something exists beyond this world, that something is calling me. I want to know that something.

[Perfect Stu]

Originally posted by Bond
What the hell is this?

Worst Situation Game Show?

Give me a break...

who put sandpaper on your toilet seat?

[TheGame]

Originally posted by GameKinG
Your goal as a christian is to be like Jesus and be with God. Jesus would lie, and the sooner you die, the sooner you are with God...

"Jesus would lie"? lol

Yeah, I'm sure

Jesus lived a sinless life... why would he start then?

[Joeiss]

Actually... I would probably be like :

"SEND ME TO THE NEXT WORLD, SUKKAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!"




Then he would probably think i am a lunatic and run away.

[BlueFire]

Originally posted by Joeiss
Actually... I would probably be like :

"SEND ME TO THE NEXT WORLD, SUKKAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!"




Then he would probably think i am a lunatic and run away. Or maybe he'd just kill you.





;)

[GameKinG]

That should say Jesus wouldnt lie...I guess I never noticed that...

[Xantar]

Originally posted by manasecret

But if, say, your mother was the one with the gun to her head and you were the one being asked the question, I think it would be far nobler to say No and sacrifice your soul to hell for your mother's life than to say Yes to uphold your beliefs.



An interesting idea. Of course, this begs the question of whether you actually would go to Hell for doing that. If a religious person were put in that situation, we could easily imagine him or her continuing to have every faith in God's existence even when answering "No" to the question. So if this person still actually believed in God, would he or she be sent to Hell?

And of course, this was all done with the intention of saving someone else's life. Condemnation in Hell seems rather harsh and inappropriate for such an action.

Now here's where things get tricky: suppose a person in our hypothetical situation goes through the same thought process as I just did and concludes that answering "No" wouldn't actually lead to burning in Hell. Thus, it wouldn't really be a sacrifice to say "No" in order to save your mother's life.

But does that somehow make the act less noble?

[sdtPikachu]

Same thing I'd do in any "oh crap, you're going to die" situation: enjoy it whilst it lasts.

Obviously, I don't believe in god and all that, so it's a bit of a pointless question. But to reverse it around, I'd never say I believed in god either. No matter what you believe in, IMO if you go back on my word or beliefs just to gain a little extra life then your world is already full of holes and one more wouldn't make much difference. Obviously there could me mitigating circumstances, but cutting to the chase, could you live with yourself knowing you'd betrayed your own feelings?

Veterans here will know my thoughts on the afterlife, and they will know that I believe that you make your own "heaven" on earth, in your own head, and if you're lucky you get to live it in your dying seconds. So hopefully you'd die with something of a smile on your face.

So I'd like to spend my final moments thinking of all the great things that have happened in my life, although I'd most likely cack my pants.

[Xantar]

Pika! Where have you been? How have you been?

And what happened to a few thousand of your posts?

And do you hate me because I keep bothering you on ICQ? :(

[sdtPikachu]

Originally posted by Xantar
Pika! Where have you been? How have you been?

And what happened to a few thousand of your posts?

And do you hate me because I keep bothering you on ICQ? :(

Where have I been? Mainly London, but also all over the place in general. Nothing exciting though, travelwise.

I have been, at various times, tired, stressed, elated, smug, angry, frustrated, depressed, ecstatic, confused and satiated. All in all, what most people call "fine".

Dunno where the hell all my posts went, but who cares anyway. I have a bone to pick with Maths anyway, so numbers can all go and fuc^H^H^H get knotted for all I care.

I wasn't aware you were bothering me on ICQ... unless your messages haven't got through somehow...? But to be honest, I've hardly used it for weeks due to copious amounts of work and/or large amounts of time spent in the sack. Never ever trust computers Xantar, they are the root of all évíl (hoho, I and fellow Linux users chortle).

Honestly Xantar, could I ever bring myself to hate you? Even if you said that war was great and we should definitely kill everyone in the world ever, or that Tomb Raider really was a milestone in cinematic innovation, you'd still manage to say it in a sensible manner, and I'd be forced to consider your point of view. Curses!