The Triple H Files

[BreakABone]

Do you think the reason Triple H hasn't been performing well is because of a lack of skilled oppenents for him?

Do you think it would be better for Triple H to go to SmackDown? Do you think it would be better for Triple H to go to SmackDown in a trade for Kurt Angle?

Do you think Raw's failure could be based on Eric Bischoff's piss poor job as GM?

Do you think that Triple H isn't being challenged both verbally and physically on Raw?

Do you think Triple H has to keep the world title since it makes no sense for him to lose to anyone on Raw saince he is on a different level than them?

[Jonbo298]

:errr: Too....many....questions...But I think Raw will eventually get back up there. Raw has always seemed like the show where all the "buff/strong" people go. Smackdown! seems more for the "high flyers" and "lightweight" people. But to contradict my own statement, heh, There is Brock Lesnar and Big Show and whatnot.

[TheGame]

Nice questions, I wonder where you got them??? :confused:

Originally posted by BreakABone
Do you think the reason Triple H hasn't been performing well is because of a lack of skilled oppenents for him?

Maybe... define "preforming well"

Do you think it would be better for Triple H to go to SmackDown? Do you think it would be better for Triple H to go to SmackDown in a trade for Kurt Angle?

Yes and Yes... I feel it would be better if any wrestler went to SD.

Do you think Raw's failure could be based on Eric Bischoff's piss poor job as GM?

:)

Who knows? Does he write the story lines?

I think Raw's failure is because:
1) On monday night, it has much more competition from high rated television programs.
2) The Talent pool simply isn't as good as Smackdown's. (it's getting there though)
3) The world championship race isn't as interestiong to watch... with all the big players like say... The Rock, Brock Lensar, Big Show, Kurt Angle, and Undertaker basically being locked on SD it's kinda hard to find a guy who it makes sense for HHH to even have a rivalry with. Don't get me wrong, Steiner, HBK, Booker T, Jericho, and RVD aren't horrible... but they havent worked themselves to invincability like HHH.

There is Stienter... the guy who worked himself up to champion over a sluggish WCW

There is HBK, known for screwing Bret Hart, and also a champion in the dark age of WWE

There is Booker T, the tag member of the freakyest guy in the WWE... Booker T became a joke in the WWE before he could even make a huge impact.

Jericho, the first undisputed Champion... the guy who won by cheating, and then got his ass kicked by HHH at WMx8. He has also been and still is a joke.

Then there is RVD, deserving of a big break, but his fighting style is akward for world championship material... he is more of a "big" cruiserweight

on to Smackdown...

There is The Rock, even when he first started in the WWE he was hated but he didn't suck. After he turned bad... joined the Nation of Domination, then the Corperation, he has never become a joke. The man is nearly invinceable, and at a PPV it's rarely easy to imagine him loseing. (cept when he fights Austin :D)

There is Brock lensar, never really showing a weakness in his carrer, his first title match he beats The Rock at a PPV fairly. This guy is meant for superstardom.

There is Big Show, at one big chunk of his carrer he had become a joke. As it stands, he is not anymore. He has allways been a great person to see at a love show because of his size, and everybody knows he has the potiental to become the champ.

Kurt Angle, Joke? Yes... but that's because Austin damn near killed his carrer. That "You suck, what?" chant has been following him far too long. But if we look at the past, he has had big rivalries with the big three on WWE, Austin, Rock, and HHH... he is also fresh talent and is a deserving champ.

Then there's UNdertaker. What more need I say? He has always been at the top of the hill, or at least near the top. Probably the runner up for Raw's wrestler of the decade.

(and then there is still Hullk and Booker T)

I think they need to even out the group and then maybe get a new storyline writer for raw.

Do you think that Triple H isn't being challenged both verbally and physically on Raw?

Challenged, yes, by his equals? No.

Do you think Triple H has to keep the world title since it makes no sense for him to lose to anyone on Raw saince he is on a different level than them?

Nope, I think he should lose the belt any get traded away... or sombody with more ring talent than stiener needs to fight him. But he has beat all of his competition from Raw... so maybe it's time to trade and get some more guys for him to beat up on ;)

In time, hopfully Raw could become the comeback home to The Rock and/or Austin.

[BreakABone]

Originally posted by TheGame
Nice questions, I wonder where you got them??? :confused:
Act like you don't know you are the cause of all these questions!



Maybe... define "preforming well"
I will not define it, this is why the invited dictionaries.


Yes and Yes... I feel it would be better if any wrestler went to SD.
I think this is the iggest piece of bull, I've ever read, and I read quite a few pieces of bull. The fact of the matter is Triple H IMO could and would only hurt the SmackDown brand.

The fact of the matter is Triple H needs to be in the spotlight in his own eyes, on SmackDown there is no room for him to be in the spotlight between Hogan,Angle,Benoit, Lesnar, Show, Taker, Edge, Guerroros, Cena, Matt Hardy and some other folks SmackDown is rather full on all levels and is well balanced.

And as many people should know Triple H doesn't want to work with people or things he feel is beneath him, hence the fact that there is no more IC title.


:)

Who knows? Does he write the story lines?
Nope Eric Bischoff doesn't write the stories, he is an on-air character much like the wrestlers without much say as to where his character is going.


SmackDown is also against some stiff compeitton like Survivor and Friends which generally rank as some high rated shows. And the fact of the matter is Raw has always had stiff competition has never stopped it before if anything Raw has less competition with only one Monday Nightr wrestling show now.


2) The Talent pool simply isn't as good as Smackdown's. (it's getting there though)
Raw does have a quite good roster of Superstars, they just aren't used properly,it's not the wrestler's fault, you can blmae the writing staff and Triple H for that one.

3) The world championship race isn't as interestiong to watch... with all the big players like say... The Rock, Brock Lensar, Big Show, Kurt Angle, and Undertaker basically being locked on SD it's kinda hard to find a guy who it makes sense for HHH to even have a rivalry with. Don't get me wrong, Steiner, HBK, Booker T, Jericho, and RVD aren't horrible... but they havent worked themselves to invincability like HHH.

The World Championship on SmackDown is easier to watch because the title means something, the Raw title for the most part is a Trophy for Triple H. I mean I find it pretty pathetic when the women's title has more meaning on a wrestling show than any other title. I mean the Tag Titles on Raw and the World Title on Raw are absolute jokes IMO.

the SmackDown World title has been without The Rock and Undertaker in the picue for some time now, and the Big Show is a joke. Why is it that Kurt Angle could fight someone on SmackDown and the match means something, the SmackDown title means something almost every time you see it whether on TV or a PPV, the Raw title doesn't have as much power. I mean how often if ever do people feel like their is a chance of Triple H losing it?

There is Stienter... the guy who worked himself up to champion over a sluggish WCW
Steiner main problem now is that he sucks as a face and he sucks even worse in a match, it's that simple, he get himself in shape or he is shipped out.

There is HBK, known for screwing Bret Hart, and also a champion in the dark age of WWE

HBK may be known for that but as his feud with Chris Jericho is proving, he has a lot of worth to the company and could actually build up younger talent to replace him, now if certain other folks did that...

There is Booker T, the tag member of the freakyest guy in the WWE... Booker T became a joke in the WWE before he could even make a huge impact.

you are right, the WWE screwed up big-time on Booker T, I mean he came in and made a big impact by attacking Austin, do they follow up on that storyline? Hell no. Then he is made to look weak by losing his belt to Angle after interference from like everyone and their mother just to win it back and lose it to the Rock some 3 wks later. Is it too late for the WWE to do something with Booker T? I don't think so, he is still loved by the crowd if they could just work it right.

Jericho, the first undisputed Champion... the guy who won by cheating, and then got his ass kicked by HHH at WMx8. He has also been and still is a joke.

Jericho is a heel, he has been a heel for well over a year. Jericho knows how to be a proper heel. A heel isn't supposed to go over easily on everyone, that's the whole point of being a bad guy, you sometimes cheat and it makes for interesting TV as it gives the good guy a way of looking like he could beat the bad guy if it was fair. You are right Jericho is a joke and that is only because Triple H for the most part is jealous of him. Jericho got the charisma, the mic skills and the wrestling ability to be one of the best damn wrestlers in history and I'm sure Triple H knows it, that is why he tries to bury Jericho as much as possible. I mean the Jericho/Triple H feud probably had one of the worst build ups in WrestleMania history and one of the least rememebered mainevent match in WrestleMania history. It is truly sad, but atleast it looks like HBK is gonna right that wrong.

Then there is RVD, deserving of a big break, but his fighting style is akward for world championship material... he is more of a "big" cruiserweight

I think it's rather nice to have someone with a different fighting style in the main event scene, I mean it's pretty pathetic when everyone shares arsenals which they do seem to share, and as for him being a "big" crusierweight, yes he is agile, but so was HBK and he is probably one of the best World Champions of all-time.

on to Smackdown...

There is The Rock, even when he first started in the WWE he was hated but he didn't suck. After he turned bad... joined the Nation of Domination, then the Corperation, he has never become a joke. The man is nearly invinceable, and at a PPV it's rarely easy to imagine him loseing. (cept when he fights Austin :D)
The Rock was not hated when he first came into the WWF, he was a joke. The "blue-chipper" was a lame ass gimmick and he was pushed to the stars for no apparent reason. The fans dind't like that and turned their backs on him, and that was probably the biggest break in his career EVER, if not for that who knows what would have become of his career. The Rock has lost at so many PPV it's not even funny, I mean he has lost to Jericho, Triple H, Austin, Kurt Angle, Brock Lesnar and so many more on PPV, it's cool though. People don't need to seem like Superman in order to be popular. I have my issues with the Rock, but he is one of the few Superstars who is comfortable with his position and has no problem putting over younger talent. Just ask Brock Lesnar or Kurt Angle or even Chris Jericho.

There is Brock lensar, never really showing a weakness in his carrer, his first title match he beats The Rock at a PPV fairly. This guy is meant for superstardom.

There is an interesting article over at 411wrestling.com that I think you should read in relation to Brock Lesnar, the fact of the matter is Brock Lesnar only became a star because people in the company were eager to help put him over. People like Triple H? No, more like Hulk Hogan, The Rock and the Undertaker. The fact of the matter is you can't become a mega star without another star helping you on your path, something Triple H is unwilling to do.

There is Big Show, at one big chunk of his carrer he had become a joke. As it stands, he is not anymore. He has allways been a great person to see at a love show because of his size, and everybody knows he has the potiental to become the champ.

Do me a favor, never mention Big Show again if you want to be taken seriously. The guy has been a joke for most of his tenure in the WWF.

Kurt Angle, Joke? Yes... but that's because Austin damn near killed his carrer. That "You suck, what?" chant has been following him far too long. But if we look at the past, he has had big rivalries with the big three on WWE, Austin, Rock, and HHH... he is also fresh talent and is a deserving champ.

Kurt Angle IMO was never a joke and still this day isn't a joke. Kurt Angle will go down in the history books as one of the best ever and probably the best America wrestler of all-time. I mean Kurt Angle has the full package, he could wrestle, not only can he wrestle but he can carry his own and his oppenents own in the ring which is the mark of a true athelete. you see the chants of "You Suck" and "What?" those are what we call good things in wrestling. It means the fans are reacting to him and he is doing his job right, it is much better than just being "booed".

Then there's UNdertaker. What more need I say? He has always been at the top of the hill, or at least near the top. Probably the runner up for Raw's wrestler of the decade.

I'm sure Taker has earned the respect of many and there ins't much to say on him.

(and then there is still Hullk and Booker T)

I would just like to say, I will find it hard to take anything you say about wrestling serious again if you mentioned Big Show as an important assest to SmackDown, but left out the roster that actually makes the show interesting like Benoit, Edge, Team Angle, Los Guerroros, John Cena and Version 1 even if a short paragraph for all.


Challenged, yes, by his equals? No.

I think the reason Triple H has no "equals" as you say is because he doesn't give anyone the chance to rise to that level. I mean I'm sure of some of Raw's talent was on SmackDown they would be major players on the show. Just take a look at Chris Benoit and Eddie Guerorro who both left Raw in the summer and how important they have become to SmackDown's success or even Brock Lesnar.



[quote]Nope, I think he should lose the belt any get traded away... or sombody with more ring talent than stiener needs to fight him. But he has beat all of his competition from Raw... so maybe it's time to trade and get some more guys for him to beat up on ;)

In time, hopfully Raw could become the comeback home to The Rock and/or Austin.

I think as a World Champion, one skill that needs to be vital in holding onto the belt is the ability to carry anyone on the roster to a watchable match, and I really don't think that Steiner crap cut it. I'm pretty sure Triple H has it in him, I mean he had remarkable matches with Taka and the Brooklyn Brawler in 2000, the problem is Triple H is a shell of a wrestler he used to be and there is no way to change that unless he improves himself, not the talent aroundhim. A piece of sh!t in New York is a piece of sh!t in Texas.

[TheGame]

Let's make this a bit smaller

I think this is the iggest piece of bull, I've ever read, and I read quite a few pieces of bull. The fact of the matter is Triple H IMO could and would only hurt the SmackDown brand.

The fact of the matter is Triple H needs to be in the spotlight in his own eyes, on SmackDown there is no room for him to be in the spotlight between Hogan,Angle,Benoit, Lesnar, Show, Taker, Edge, Guerroros, Cena, Matt Hardy and some other folks SmackDown is rather full on all levels and is well balanced.

And as many people should know Triple H doesn't want to work with people or things he feel is beneath him, hence the fact that there is no more IC title.

Mmhmm, and what from H's history gives you that idea? Have you personally met the guy? Did he tell you he doesn't want to lose to lesser wrestlers? How do you know? Proof please.

EDIT: Thinking about the IC title... didn't he settle for the IC title when him and Austin became friends?

Raw does have a quite good roster of Superstars, they just aren't used properly,it's not the wrestler's fault, you can blmae the writing staff and Triple H for that one

I can see where the staff can be blamed... but where does HHH come in again?

and I think Raw does have a talented roster... but it's simply not as good as Smackdown's.

You are right Jericho is a joke and that is only because Triple H for the most part is jealous of him.

*cough*

How do you know this?

Kurt Angle IMO was never a joke and still this day isn't a joke. Kurt Angle will go down in the history books as one of the best ever and probably the best America wrestler of all-time. I mean Kurt Angle has the full package, he could wrestle, not only can he wrestle but he can carry his own and his oppenents own in the ring which is the mark of a true athelete. you see the chants of "You Suck" and "What?" those are what we call good things in wrestling. It means the fans are reacting to him and he is doing his job right, it is much better than just being "booed".

Right... The crowd was reacting to Rock when he was a "face" by saying "Rocky Sucks"

The crowd was reacting to Austin by saying "What?" and Edge by saying "You Suck". Also, kurt was a joke, he was a comic relief, the third leg of Steph and Triple H... and like I said, now he isn't he is a great athlete, and he maybe will go down in the books as one of the greatist ever. So we have no arguements there.

There is an interesting article over at 411wrestling.com that I think you should read in relation to Brock Lesnar, the fact of the matter is Brock Lesnar only became a star because people in the company were eager to help put him over. People like Triple H? No, more like Hulk Hogan, The Rock and the Undertaker. The fact of the matter is you can't become a mega star without another star helping you on your path, something Triple H is unwilling to do.

Source? Wasn't Lensar the champ? Also, in the story line wasn't lensar the one to run to Smackdown? Oh wait, you know all of them personally.... so you know the truth behind it :rolleyes:

I think the reason Triple H has no "equals" as you say is because he doesn't give anyone the chance to rise to that level. I mean I'm sure of some of Raw's talent was on SmackDown they would be major players on the show. Just take a look at Chris Benoit and Eddie Guerorro who both left Raw in the summer and how important they have become to SmackDown's success or even Brock Lesnar.

And it doesn't work the other way? Why not? Cause big mean HHH is holding everybody down? I know you don't like the guy, but who are you to blame him for not giving anybody a chance? How about your old precious Kurt? What was he before H? Also, what about Jericho? Before his feud with H it couldn't have been imagined that he would be in a WM title match.... let alone the first undisputed champion ever!

Yeah, sure, H holds them all down.

I think as a World Champion, one skill that needs to be vital in holding onto the belt is the ability to carry anyone on the roster to a watchable match, and I really don't think that Steiner crap cut it. I'm pretty sure Triple H has it in him, I mean he had remarkable matches with Taka and the Brooklyn Brawler in 2000, the problem is Triple H is a shell of a wrestler he used to be and there is no way to change that unless he improves himself, not the talent aroundhim. A piece of sh!t in New York is a piece of sh!t in Texas.

Don't give that Stiener crap? Wrestling is an Act... and both fighters in a match are equally responceable for how entertaining it is... If you honestly believe H brought down stiener's preformance in that match, you are a complete moron. I didn't see the match myself, But I heard from my friends that that match was both the best match they have ever seen steiner in and one of the worst H has been in.

Now who's the weak link?

[nWoCHRISnWo]

Well I'm not gonna go through point by point, but I'll just add some of my thoughts...

Firstly, I think that Vince McMahon is the blame for everything that is wrong right now in WWE. Whatever state WWE is in, whether it is great or ****, Vince is the reason for that at all times in my opinion. Secondly, Gerwirtz, the Raw head booker, sucks ****. There can't even be arguments on that. Look at Shelton Benjamin, he was on Heat wrestling losers on the Raw brand, then he goes over to Smackdown where he becomes one of the biggest parts of the show. I know you can't base an opinion just because of this, as maybe they wouldn't let Shelton come up to Raw while he was there, but it's not like it's an arguable fact. Gerwirtz just isn't very great.

And now that that's clear, on to Triple H. I'd like to start off by saying that in 99/2000/2001, while he was't the greatest wrestler, he worked his ass off and had some truly awesome matches. Now however, is a completely different story.

He's pretty much the only big star on Raw... True. But why is that? It's his own damn fault. Look at Chris Jericho. He could have been a HUGE star, but he lost to Triple H over... and over... and over. Then, just when you thought he'd finally get a win over Triple H (Last Man Standing, HIAC...etc.), nope. He loses again. It's amazing how lopsided their records are against eachother, in that Triple H has about 50 wins to Jericho's ZERO.

Then the time when Jericho was the Champ, he was made to look like ****. Picking up that dog's ****, going out and getting Stephanie things, etc. Jericho was never made to look like a threat to Triple H in any way, and it sucked. The simple fact is, Triple H is banging the boss(es daughter) and he can do whatever he wants.

Let's just look at the credibilty of the Raw title right now. It was ****ing handed to Triple H, that was the first problem. Then he goes on to dismantle everyone in his way (like RVD for example. WHy not give RVD a run with the belt? He was hella over andno matter what his style is, he's a better wrestler than Triple H is right now, so instead, Triple H brings him down to HIS level and in their PPV match he keeps it limited to headlocks, after headlocks, after headlocks). He stills gets more time than anyone does on any of the shows for his stupid promos, that honestly are the most boring things on WWE TV, and that is saying a lot.

At Rumble, Triple H stinks it up in his match (well, I can't only blame Triple H, but either way it's not like Triple H has had any good matches lately) while Jericho puts on a great peformance in the Rumble match. THE CROWD F'N BOOED WHEN HE WAS TOSSED OUT! Get a ****ing clue already and turn Jericho face, put him against Triple H and have him beat him CLEANLY.

Now I do agree that Austin is the same way as Triple H, as in they both rarely ever job, nevermind cleanly, and both make people look like complete jokes (Austin~ Booker T, wouldn't lose to Brock not that I really disagree with that though, wouldn't even feud with Jeff Jarrett, etc.) but Austin has at least earned some sort of right to have a say in what he does, as he's the biggest drawing SOB in the history of the WWFE.

Another thing, he goes into staff/creative/booking meetings. Why the **** is this? He's a wrestler, he shouldn't be allowed in those, case closed.

It's not like we're pulling this **** out from our ass either, it would take a blind, deaf, mute, and dumb person not to see that Triple H has it out for Jericho. There are always rumours that Triple H doesn't like to work with more athletic people than him (which would explain him working with Steiner and Kane just for the record) and tons fo other things. Yeah, they're only rumours, but it gets to the point where they sound pretty damn accurate. What else is there... Oh yeah, if you didn't hear he apparently stopped a match (or maybe two, I forgot) in the middle of a house show when he was fighting Kane because the crowd was fooling around or something. He then goes on the mic and tells them he is there to entertain them and to watch what's happening. :rolleyes: Or the best one yet, he apparently goes into the locker room and yells at everyone to work harder and to pull their load. If that one's true, then all I can do is LMFAO.

Now I know a lot of these things are rumours and just what it seems like, but look at the facts too. How often does Triple H ever job (not counting his friend Shawn Michaels)? Sure, he's making Steiner look strong, but then again Steiner's a roided up freak who's even a ****tier wrestler than Triple H is right now and he probably knows he'll be fired before Mania anyway. When has Triple H EVER helped to make a start out of someone? Look at Hulk Hogan. The man was known for being the biggest non-jobbing POS in the business, and he has jobbed time (Angle) after time (Brock) after time (Rock). The Rock might not be dedicated to wrestling, but you can't deny that he'll job, cleanly too. To Brock, to Austin in the main event at Wrestlemania (more than once), to Chris Benoit (Tapped to the crossface), to Angle.

And like Penguin said, when you watch a Triple H match, you don't think "I wonder who will win" you think "I wonder how long before Triple H wins" and that is pretty much unarguable. Just ask yourself how many times you actually though the other guy had a shot in a match. That's part of the reason why I hate his matches now too.

"How about your old precious Kurt? What was he before H? Also, what about Jericho? Before his feud with H it couldn't have been imagined that he would be in a WM title match.... let alone the first undisputed champion ever!"

I don't get what you're getting at, because before Triple H ,Kurt was one of the most entertaining guys in the fed, and still is now. I don't remember Triple H ever jobbing a title to Kurt, although Rock did. Austin made him look GOLDEN. And the only thing that Triple H did to Jericho was make him look like a joke, about six times. He had nothing to do with Jericho being Undisputed Champion either, other than taking it away from him of course. It was The Rock and Austin that Jericho beat for that belt, and he was looking awesome while feuding with the Rock (for the WCW Belt too).

"But I heard from my friends that that match was both the best match they have ever seen steiner in and one of the worst H has been in."

I saw the match, and Steiner sucked ass. So did Triple H. Your friends must not have seen Scott Steiner before one month ago if they thought that was his best match. I can probably name 50 that are better off the top of my head. The last big match (the last Nitro) he had was better than this match (vs Booker T). His match against ****ing Goldberg was better. Years ago when Steiner was in a tag team with his brother, he had TONS of matches that can only be described as FIFTY TIMES better than ANYTHING Triple H has ever done in his life. From WWFE days, I know for a fact that the Owen/Bret Hart vs the Steiners is so much better than anything Triple H has done lately or ever it's not even funny.

[Professor S]

HHH's poor performance isn't because of his opponents. Thats a cop-out and always will be a cop-out. If you are the top guy you are expected to perform well and make others that you are performing with perform well. You need to be able to carry your opponent. HHH hasn't been able to do this since his injury. Compare the Undertaker matches.

Pre-injury HHH was able to carry the Taker to a great series of matches. After the injury, he and the Undertaker put on one of the worse matches I can remember. HHH bulked up too much. He blows up early in matches and the way he plods around the ring you would think he was The Big Show.

I don't care who HHH is or who his fans are, he is a cancer on that company. He has done nothing but take from those willing to give him their careers to elevate his (namely Mick Foley) and has given NOTHING back to other up and coming stars such as RVD and has done everything in his power to avoid a job to Lesnar. His booking stroke extends beyond just finishes involving his matches, but to other matches to make sure he can kill any heat from any other younger star like Jericho. Now he has taken several young guys and made them his supporting cast. My guess is they'll get little to no rub from this and mainly exist to keep the title on HHH. Big surprise.

The best thing the WWE can do is to fire HHH. He is single handedly killing the Raw program.

[TheGame]

Have you guys ever stopped to think that HHH is getting built up for a big fall???

It's seems all of you agree that instead of wondering if he will win a match, you are wondering when he will win a match... Which brings me to a thought... if HHH were to lose his title wouldn't be a much bigger suprise than if Kurt were to lose his?

WWE seems to be taking both the angle of having a dominant champion who is invinceable and having a champion who can barely hold his belt at the same time. Do they really need to do the same for both shows?

Before I could ever blame HHH for anything, I would blame whoever is writing... and I would really put the blame on whoever decided that it was a bright idea to split up the shows...

HHH wasn't the one who sat there, slapped vince, and told him to split the shows and make himself a champ on one of the shows. HHH doesn't own the WWE, so if he had anything to do with himself keeping the belt it's still not his fault... it's whoever gave him this freedom's fault.

Triple H is a poison in his state, and WWE giving him so much freedom is the reason for it. I am pretty sure vince knows this, and as much as I hate him I know he is not an idiot.

I expect HHH to win at the next PPV... as do I expect Angle to win at the next PPV. It's all about momentum coming into WM. Then at WM, there will be a clear and present chance of them both handing thier belts... and I say there is a bigger chance of H giving it up.

I'm not just saying this because he is my fav wrestler, it's just a fact. On a game like No Mercy, you didn't want to lose to your friends because you probably had a big ego and you were in 100% control of the situation... so how the hell do you guys expect the story-line creator version of H to give up the belt?

What they need to do is kick him out of the office, and make him a slave to what the writers tell him to do (on Raw that's not really a good thing, but eh, it's a start). Once ego gets in the way of a wrestler's choice to win or lose a match, it starts trouble... as we learned with Mr. Bret Hart and even Austin who was whining about not being in the spot-light at WMx8.

You guys expect too much from the WWE...

World title history:
Triple H had the belt 2 months, gave it to michaels for a month, now HHH is back up to having it 1 1/2 months... how quick does he really need to lose the damn belt?

WWE title history:
Angle had it for a month and a half, Big Show had it for a month, Brock carried the belt for 3 months, Rock had it a month, Hulk had it a month, HHH had it a month, Jericho for 3 months, Austin had it 2 months, Angle had it one month, Austin had it 6 months, Rock had it two months and Angle had it 4 months.

This dates back to late 2000 (aka the first champion of 2001)

Why compared to Austin's 6 month run, Brocks 3 month run, Jericho's 3 month run, and Angle's 4 month run is HHH's 1.5 month run special?

Hell, HHH is one of the very few big superstar wrestlers to lose to Hogan... if he's the selfish SOB you guys clame he is, why would he lose to the older, slower, and definently less ring talented Hogan? Rock sure didn't lose, and Austin didn't stay around long enough to lose... Undertaker didn't lose... but who did? Who gave hogan his last run?

HHH shouldn't be fired, and he sure as hell doesn't need to give up the belt. When he has a 6 month Austin run with the belt, or 6 month Goldberg run with the belt, then start talking about who should be fired or who should give up the belt.

[BreakABone]

Originally posted by TheGame
You guys expect too much from the WWE...

World title history:
Triple H had the belt 2 months, gave it to michaels for a month, now HHH is back up to having it 1 1/2 months... how quick does he really need to lose the damn belt?

WWE title history:
Angle had it for a month and a half, Big Show had it for a month, Brock carried the belt for 3 months, Rock had it a month, Hulk had it a month, HHH had it a month, Jericho for 3 months, Austin had it 2 months, Angle had it one month, Austin had it 6 months, Rock had it two months and Angle had it 4 months.

This dates back to late 2000 (aka the first champion of 2001)

Why compared to Austin's 6 month run, Brocks 3 month run, Jericho's 3 month run, and Angle's 4 month run is HHH's 1.5 month run special?

Hell, HHH is one of the very few big superstar wrestlers to lose to Hogan... if he's the selfish SOB you guys clame he is, why would he lose to the older, slower, and definently less ring talented Hogan? Rock sure didn't lose, and Austin didn't stay around long enough to lose... Undertaker didn't lose... but who did? Who gave hogan his last run?

HHH shouldn't be fired, and he sure as hell doesn't need to give up the belt. When he has a 6 month Austin run with the belt, or 6 month Goldberg run with the belt, then start talking about who should be fired or who should give up the belt.

Well first off Triple H's first "World Title" run on Raw is closer to 3 months since he got it after SummerSlam and lost it at Survivor Series.

The difference between Austin's 6 month reign, Jericho's 3 month reign and Brock's 3 month reign is rather simple, they were built as proper heels. I mean in any of those titles defenses it seemed like the match could go either way and for the most part, the Champion probably barely squeaked by with the belt.

Also to compare Austin's 6 month reign is a bit difficult because for about 1-1/2 months the story was really focused on the InVasion angle, he just happened to have the belt at the time. Also if you go back and watch basically any match from that title reign Austin never went over cleanly as easily as Triple H did. I mean in theory Austin lost the title at KOTR because he tapped out to both Benoit and Jericho and he lost it to Angle at SummerSlam, but Angle was screwed. That makes for interesting TV when you know that the face has a chance of coming back and beating the heel.

The same applies to Jericho's title reign, well until the whole WrestleMania feud begun where he was made to look like Stephanie's bi@tch, hmm wonder who his oppenet was.

Hhaha, I can't believe you are congratulating Triple H for putting over Hogan (which BTW he got even with if you don't remember so it was a little take and give), I mean I respect Hogan and all but most of Hogan's tenure in the WWE should have been used to put over people like the Rock, Kurt Angle, Edge and Brock Lesnar like he did, I don't think Hogan beating Triple H really did much for either man career, and if Triple H can lose to Hogan, why can't he lose to someone a bit more agile like RVD or a star in the making like Booker T?

[TheGame]

Originally posted by BreakABone
Well first off Triple H's first "World Title" run on Raw is closer to 3 months since he got it after SummerSlam and lost it at Survivor Series.

No, a month and a half... he won it mid December (15th or later)

The difference between Austin's 6 month reign, Jericho's 3 month reign and Brock's 3 month reign is rather simple, they were built as proper heels. I mean in any of those titles defenses it seemed like the match could go either way and for the most part, the Champion probably barely squeaked by with the belt.

So, you are saying HHH just beat the living hell out of Steiner and HBK, and at no point it seems they had a chance of winning the match or coming back the next PPV and actually winning?

lol

Last I heard HHH was squeaking by too...

You thoughts of how his opponents have no chance is exactly what it is, YOUR thoughts.

Also to compare Austin's 6 month reign is a bit difficult because for about 1-1/2 months the story was really focused on the InVasion angle, he just happened to have the belt at the time. Also if you go back and watch basically any match from that title reign Austin never went over cleanly as easily as Triple H did. I mean in theory Austin lost the title at KOTR because he tapped out to both Benoit and Jericho and he lost it to Angle at SummerSlam, but Angle was screwed. That makes for interesting TV when you know that the face has a chance of coming back and beating the heel.

Steiner left last PPV as the "screwed winner" so what's the difference?

The same applies to Jericho's title reign, well until the whole WrestleMania feud begun where he was made to look like Stephanie's bi@tch, hmm wonder who his oppenet was.

err, what's the point of this statement?

Hhaha, I can't believe you are congratulating Triple H for putting over Hogan (which BTW he got even with if you don't remember so it was a little take and give), I mean I respect Hogan and all but most of Hogan's tenure in the WWE should have been used to put over people like the Rock, Kurt Angle, Edge and Brock Lesnar like he did, I don't think Hogan beating Triple H really did much for either man career, and if Triple H can lose to Hogan, why can't he lose to someone a bit more agile like RVD or a star in the making like Booker T?

Because his title run isn't over...

Also, when H lost the WWE belt he never got it back. He won a #1 contender match with Undertaker and Brock ran.

Why should H lose to Booker T or RVD? HHH rarely ever loses a 100% fair match, and most of the time he cheats to beat his opponents... it's all a part of his character.

WWE (not HHH) is making it so anybody coming into a match with HHH is an underdog. There are only three guys who can come into a match and not be an underdog... and that's Rock, Austin, and Undertaker. They come in as his equals.

Not to say that he should never lose to anybody "below" him in a fair manner (even though he did twice in the last 6 months)... but come on, RVD and Booker T need a LOT more momentum before they come head up with HHH and expect to win.

You said it yourself, Booker has become a joke... and RVD just isn't the type of wrestler you would expect to overpower Triple H. The day Matt Hardy beats Undertaker for the WWE title is the day RVD beats HHH for the world title, period. There is nobody left in the WWE except H who can take the roll of the "dominant superstar" much like Austin and Rock used to do. (Let's pray Austin comes back to Raw)

Well, there are people that can, like Angle and Brock... but they aren't even in the same league as HHH (literarily) ;)

[nWoCHRISnWo]

Originally posted by TheGame
Once ego gets in the way of a wrestler's choice to win or lose a match, it starts trouble... as we learned with Mr. Bret Hart and even Austin who was whining about not being in the spot-light at WMx8.

I'll post more later, but I HAD to comment on this right off the bat. The only thing we learned when Bret got screwed was that Vince McMahon was a piece of ****. We also learned being loyal doesn't matter one bit to Vince.

And while on the topic of Austin, in his recent column he put down HHH, said he had to drop 20 pounds and become like his 2000 self, said he shouldn't get the backstage special privileges that he gets.

Edit: Oh yeah and I've noticed you haven't replied to some of my points, like how Jericho was made to be a ****ing joke to Triple H, yet beat Austin and the Rock before, and was made to look somewhat credible versus them, and versus Benoit, and versus Angle, etc. And how Triple H gets into backstage meetings, how he's banging the boss's daughter... He has way too much pull in the company and everyone knows it. Like I said in my previous post, name one guy who Triple H has helped make a star out of. He doesn't help young guys, he doesn't draw ratings or buyrates, and he doesn't have good or even average matches.

Edit 2: Oh and I also made sure to say that first off it's Vince's fault and the booker's for Raw's fault before anyone by the way. I think you should read my previous post a little more.

[Professor S]

Justin, I can see how you can create scapoegoats for HHH in the writing and political viewpoints, but how do you explain his horrible workrate.

He simply doesn't have the skills to keep top card matches interesting like he used to. Blame it on Steiner, but HHH used to be able to carry humps like Steiner to good matches before. thats what top card guys have to be able to do.

[Ravishing Rick Rude]

The only time i respected HHH was when he was jobbing to Past Roid Jobs like the Ultimate warrior, his work rate is awful, he can't draw for beans.

Basically put, the last good match he had, a guy who had been retired for 4 years, dragged his ass all around the place.

[BreakABone]

Originally posted by Ravishing Rick Rude
The only time i respected HHH was when he was jobbing to Past Roid Jobs like the Ultimate warrior, his work rate is awful, he can't draw for beans.

Basically put, the last good match he had, a guy who had been retired for 4 years, dragged his ass all around the place.

Well, it wasn't just any 4-year retiree, it was the ShowStopper, The Main Eventa, the Icon, The Heartbreak Kid..haha

now the question is, was that match a testimant to the type of athelete that Shawn Micheals is or is it proof that Triple H could be in a good match if motivated?
Justin, I can see how you can create scapoegoats for HHH in the writing and political viewpoints, but how do you explain his horrible workrate.

He simply doesn't have the skills to keep top card matches interesting like he used to. Blame it on Steiner, but HHH used to be able to carry humps like Steiner to good matches before. thats what top card guys have to be able to do.
Is almost similar to my statement earlier in the thread..

I think as a World Champion, one skill that needs to be vital in holding onto the belt is the ability to carry anyone on the roster to a watchable match, and I really don't think that Steiner crap cut it. I'm pretty sure Triple H has it in him, I mean he had remarkable matches with Taka and the Brooklyn Brawler in 2000, the problem is Triple H is a shell of a wrestler he used to be and there is no way to change that unless he improves himself, not the talent aroundhim. A piece of sh!t in New York is a piece of sh!t in Texas.

And to Justin, a point I forgot to make earlier when I was replying to your lenght of a title reign. Well, you also forgot to take into account the meaning of the title. The WWF has historical significances as does the WCW title, but Triple H doesn't holdthe WVW title, he may have the belt, but basically it was a belt given to him and since he got it, he has pretty much had it since it's creation.

The belt had been around something like 5 months and he has held it 4 months and the only reason I think he even let HBK win it was to get it back from him later on to make himself look that much better.

[TheGame]

*sigh*

I'll post more later, but I HAD to comment on this right off the bat. The only thing we learned when Bret got screwed was that Vince McMahon was a piece of ****. We also learned being loyal doesn't matter one bit to Vince.

If Bret Hart had access to writing the scripts like HHH he would have one that match... period. Given the freedom to chose between winning and losing, most wrestlers would write themselves in as winners. Now do you understand?

Like I said before, they need to take H out of the office and let the real writers handle everything.

And while on the topic of Austin, in his recent column he put down HHH, said he had to drop 20 pounds and become like his 2000 self, said he shouldn't get the backstage special privileges that he gets.

I agree

Edit: Oh yeah and I've noticed you haven't replied to some of my points, like how Jericho was made to be a ****ing joke to Triple H, yet beat Austin and the Rock before, and was made to look somewhat credible versus them, and versus Benoit, and versus Angle, etc. And how Triple H gets into backstage meetings, how he's banging the boss's daughter... He has way too much pull in the company and everyone knows it. Like I said in my previous post, name one guy who Triple H has helped make a star out of. He doesn't help young guys, he doesn't draw ratings or buyrates, and he doesn't have good or even average matches.

Triple H did let Jericho beat him, off the record of course... and for the third time, I agree that he has too much pull in the company and they need to kick his ass out of the office.

Edit 2: Oh and I also made sure to say that first off it's Vince's fault and the booker's for Raw's fault before anyone by the way. I think you should read my previous post a little more.

I'm aware of that, But I wasn't replying 100% to you, I was replying to a mix of what you BAB and Strangler had to say...

My main point in this whole "debate" is that it isn't HHH's fault Raw sucks, It is Vince's fault... NO wrestler should have the power Triple H has, period. Did HHH go backstage, choke vince and force him to give him all this access? No. Vince let him have the access so it's not HHH's fault.

[TheGame]

Originally posted by The Strangler
Justin, I can see how you can create scapoegoats for HHH in the writing and political viewpoints, but how do you explain his horrible workrate.

I can't... he simply isn't as good a wrestler as he was in 2000. But I can name a LOT of examples of wrestlers who aren't exactly in thier "prime" anymore.

He simply doesn't have the skills to keep top card matches interesting like he used to. Blame it on Steiner, but HHH used to be able to carry humps like Steiner to good matches before. thats what top card guys have to be able to do.

and why is he a top card guy? Because he has to much backstage power. Vince is a scapegoat.... but hell... look over my last few posts.

[TheGame]

Originally posted by BreakABone
And to Justin, a point I forgot to make earlier when I was replying to your lenght of a title reign. Well, you also forgot to take into account the meaning of the title. The WWF has historical significances as does the WCW title, but Triple H doesn't holdthe WVW title, he may have the belt, but basically it was a belt given to him and since he got it, he has pretty much had it since it's creation.

Thank you for admiting you are wrong and that his title run was only a month and a half :rolleyes:

The belt had been around something like 5 months and he has held it 4 months and the only reason I think he even let HBK win it was to get it back from him later on to make himself look that much better.

Well, what was H supposed to do?

1) He has control over the story lines, control that he shouldn't have.

2) Who else was a big contender for the World title on Raw when H lost it?

Triple H is like how Austin was in 98-2001... either had the belt, or was a top contender for it. It has got to the point where it doesn't make sense for HHH not to be in the title hunt over 95% of the guys in the WWE... and it's not his fault.

I think this little clique thing will work out so he can lose the title, not be a contender for it, and still be a big part of the story line. Vince let it get too far out of hand for HHH to fall back into the darkness. HHH is like a version of The Rock who is always around... maybe they need to start doing the ol fake WCW injuries and just have him wrestle 6 months per year or somthing.

[BreakABone]

Originally posted by TheGame
Thank you for admiting you are wrong and that his title run was only a month and a half :rolleyes:
Ok, it's his second title reign and he has only had it a month and a half, but he has had it the majority of it's existance.


Well, what was H supposed to do?

1) He has control over the story lines, control that he shouldn't have.
I agree with you on this, he has power that he shouldn't. I can't put that entirely on him, I mean he is to blame for some of it since he does take advantaged of it, but Vince, Steph and whoever else writes the show should have a bigger blame since they allow him to us that power.

2) Who else was a big contender for the World title on Raw when H lost it?
Again, they could make people top contenders, I mean Chris Benoit became a contender for the title, and he was gone most of the year, heck, even Edge and Rey made credible oppenents for the World title, why can't Raw make their superstars like that?

Triple H is like how Austin was in 98-2001... either had the belt, or was a top contender for it. It has got to the point where it doesn't make sense for HHH not to be in the title hunt over 95% of the guys in the WWE... and it's not his fault.

Your comparison is fair, but also a little misskwed (whatever). Austin was a big part of the WWF from 98-2001, but there are some facts that I guess are overlooked
1)In 1998, Austin was only Champion for like 5-6 months combined. That leaves something like half of the year where he wasn't champ and pretty much for the end of the year wasn't hunting the gold.

Austin, now and probably forever, will always be a bigger star than Triple H, when Austin was at the top, he was there because he was the most popular wrestler since Hulk Hogan, Triple H IMO has not and will never be in a league of popularity of such stars as Hogan, Rock, Austin, Flair, HBK and Bret Hart. Triple H may be a popular time, but never close.

Also austin was gone for a large portion of 2000 and for some of 1999, so he was never truly overexposed in the industry.

the 2001 well, I don't think he was as bad as the 98-99 since he wasn't built up as some superhuman anymore.

[TheGame]

You have to admit... when Austin wasn't going for the title, he probably wasn't even active on the show... and if we was active on the show, and not going for the title, he was still in a story that was as big (or bigger) than the title run story itself.

HHH thinks of himself like this, just like many other champion wrestlers. When he gets the freedom to decide... he abuses it, just like any other wrestler would do. I don't blame HHH, because every wrestler wants the spotlight... they just need to take away his freedom.

But... it's almost too late. Like I said in my last post they need to start having some fake injuries and give him time to get back in shape WCW style. Let him come back to the spotlight, then somehow take him off of the show again.

The Rock does the same thing, the difference is Rock has other things to do (movies and such), and Wrestling is HHH's life.

if you look at HHH's record, all the guys he beat, he is definently the strongest Guy in the WWE by power ranking. But the strongest shouldn't wrestle 12 months per year! You need guys who win and lose wrestling year around, not a guy who always wins. I think they should remove him from the show, give him time to get back in shape, and let him have a comeback... after a title run or two, get rid of him again.

[edit]

Maybe they should bring goldberg in right before WM, and have him and HHH have a title match... methinks that would make for a clueless discussion on who would win ;)

[BreakABone]

Originally posted by TheGame
You have to admit... when Austin wasn't going for the title, he probably wasn't even active on the show... and if we was active on the show, and not going for the title, he was still in a story that was as big (or bigger) than the title run story itself.

that much I agree with you on, except for in one or two cases. I think that the Rock/Mankind feud was on the same level as ausitn trying to get into the main event of WrestleMania 15 and I also think the InVasion angle was a lot bigger than him being champion.

HHH thinks of himself like this, just like many other champion wrestlers. When he gets the freedom to decide... he abuses it, just like any other wrestler would do. I don't blame HHH, because every wrestler wants the spotlight... they just need to take away his freedom.

I won't deny there has been wrestlers who abuse their power, Austin is a prime example of one, refusing to work with Jarrett and Bily Gunn comes to mind, but then again who wants to work with Billy Gunn.

The major difference between Triple H and for the most part everyone else, when they abused their power, they atleast put on decent matches for the most part Triple H has not put on many good matches in the past year or therefore about.

But... it's almost too late. Like I said in my last post they need to start having some fake injuries and give him time to get back in shape WCW style. Let him come back to the spotlight, then somehow take him off of the show again.
Well, I don't think they eed to work an angle, just move him down the roster and have him feud with lesser stars to bring them up while also training. the problem isn't Triple H on the show, it's hgim being the focal point of the show.

The Rock does the same thing, the difference is Rock has other things to do (movies and such), and Wrestling is HHH's life.

Well, I've never had a problem with the Rock for the simple fact that he is willing to put over folks no matter what. He generally doesn't have an issue with it.

if you look at HHH's record, all the guys he beat, he is definently the strongest Guy in the WWE by power ranking. But the strongest shouldn't wrestle 12 months per year! You need guys who win and lose wrestling year around, not a guy who always wins. I think they should remove him from the show, give him time to get back in shape, and let him have a comeback... after a title run or two, get rid of him again.
I don't know what you mean by power, I mean you, yourself, mention that wrestling is rigged so there is no accurate guage as to how strong a wrestler is. As Scott Steiner proved you can be built, but don't have much strenght.

[edit]

Maybe they should bring goldberg in right before WM, and have him and HHH have a title match... methinks that would make for a clueless discussion on who would win ;)

Well, as far as I know if Goldberg is brought into the WWE, he will feud with the Rock leading into the Mania. rock and Goldberg both want it.

[nWoCHRISnWo]

"If Bret Hart had access to writing the scripts like HHH he would have one that match... period. Given the freedom to chose between winning and losing, most wrestlers would write themselves in as winners. Now do you understand?"

I know what you mean, and I agree fully that it's Vince's fault first and foremost. The Bret Hart thing was a lot different though, because Bret DID in a small way have access to writing the scripts. Not actually write them like that, but he had a creative control clause in his contract which again Vince was stupid for putting in there, but he did. So take a look at what happened, Bret jobs for Shawn at WM 12, Shawn is supposed to return the job at WM 13. No go because Shawn "I don't lay down for anyone" Michaels pretended he was injured. Shawn and Bret had some bigtime REAL heat with eachother now. Then comes time number 2 where Vince ****es up. He says he can't afford to pay Bret what his contract states anymore, so he should go to WCW (where he would be given more money). Bret doesn't exactly want to go to WCW for more money or not, as he already turned down a WCW contract to stay with WWF for less money. But he ultimately decides to go as Vince cannot pay him anyway, so fast forward to Survivor Series. Bret's still champ and Vince wants the belt off him so he doesn't take the belt to Nitro, which is pretty funny seeing as Bret was the most loyal guy he had and never wanted to leave in the first place. Vince comes up with the bright idea to have Bret job to Michaels once again in Canada nevertheless for the title. Bret says no (and because of his creative control clause, he possibly had every right to say no) and gives other ideas of how to get the belt off him. Vince, the sleazy ****face he is, agrees with one of Bret's ideas and goes on to screw him of course. Now that was a long story of what we all know happened, but... 1. I like defending Bret so :cool: and 2. It's not the same as Bret just wanting to win every match like Triple H apparently does.

*cough* Pretty much I'd just like ot start another "who screwed Bret" debate, but meh. Can never have enough of those.

And in conclusion to this Triple H thing, yes it is Vince's fault for a lot of the problems. But the fact is Triple H should not be the focus and main eventer that he is given that he isn't drawing and he isn't having good matches anymore.

[Joeiss]

I know this is sort of off topic... But why did Vince want bret to leave?