The big mistery of live.... NO NOT WOMEN THIS TIME!!

[Angrist]

The Fourth Dimension!! What is it?? Does it exist???

We all know we live in 3D. While we can think about 0D (a dot), 1D (a line), 2D (a what's it called in English), and of course 3D, we find it hard to think about 4D.

I've been thinking about it a lot. The fourth dimension is a new direction. Not up, left or forward, but somewhere else. But going that way, we could make short cuts...

I believe there was this 4 dimensional game somewhere on the internet... very vague, with an arrow that has to shoot through a hole... :confused:

There are also impressions of 4D objects. I'll look for it after I finish my tentams this week.

BTW ask your physics teacher about it... :D

edit: thanks Fingers... although the correction doesn't show up in the title on the General Forum.

[fingersman]

I thought the 4th dimension was time.

Neways..............it should be life instead of live in your thread heading. :D

[Jonbo298]

Its probably something similar to a "worm-hole" where it (like you said) is a shortcut somewhere, but you go in a "different way".:unsure:

[Ice006]

I don't believe time is a true dimension. Just a measure we use like weight. Weight isn't a dimension.

[Dyne]

Hmm... I tend to stay away from these things. It's times like these I had a big sign saying "I'd rather be gaming!".

But... really, the 4th Dimension would be Time itself. I'm also pretty sure it's impossible to describe..

[Happydude]

some people say that it's time, some say it's temperature, some say it's something else :p. since any point in the universe can be measured, by up/down,left/right, forwards/backwards; itcan also be measured by temperature, and time...

i couokd draw a 4D cube...it's not that hard...but it is kinda hard to see on a 2D surface...so yeah...if i get around to drawing it, i'll post it here...

[Professor S]

Originally posted by Ice006
I don't believe time is a true dimension. Just a measure we use like weight. Weight isn't a dimension.

Time is directly tied to all space and matter and it is as malleable and evident as the computer in front of you. Time is more than simply a measurement. If it were, all time would pass by at the same rate, and it does not.

Take a Mayfly for example. Mayfly lives for only one day. But a day (24 hours) is purely a fabrication that man has developed to gain the illusion that time is measureable using the sun. That Mayfly may only live a day to us, but that same period may be a complete 70 year lifetime to the Mayfly in comparison. As Einstein pointed out, all time is relative.

A wormhole is a singularity in time and space. A pinpoint of such mass that the forces it attracts literally pull time and space into it until it impodes, creating a tunnel between to areas of the universe for instantaneous travel (if a vessel could ever be invented that could withstand the forces inherent in a wormhole). This was explained a little in Dune with "folding space".

So if time could be bent, could it be destroyed or even shaped to our liking?

*realizes he's gotten WAY too deep in this discussion*

Well, something to think about.:D

[Neo]

Time is generally treated as the 4th dimension, but it can also be things like temperature. It just depends on the problem you're solving. The 4th dimension isn't a thing in and of it self, it's a mathematical concept we apply to make life easier.

[Happydude]

.....yes....:sneaky:

[Jewels]

very true

[ominub]

from what i know there are like 7 dimensions but i dont know anything about them

[One Winged Angel]

I think I remember 4D being time. I think Angrist is talking about the 5th Dimension.

[Shadow_Link]

Some scientists actually believe there are up to 10 dimensions, and that there could be more.

[Crono]

The whole conecept of a 4th dimension kinda scares me...

Really though, I don't think we'll ever find out anyway.

[Dyne]

Don't people put the infinite-dimesion theory to work? I've read many theories by smart people, where there's countless dimensions, and in each dimension, it's a different, well, time. All of these dimensions could be known as Time itself. Well, I'm more of a fan of quantam physics and theory, however... because then could anyone imagine a 378943638D?

Well, in this big old Universe of ours, anything's possible.

[GiMpY-wAnNaBe]

Whoa Whoa Whoah...ok...all of u did what with the chicken in the wearhouse???
...:D
and btw, time is the 4th dimension, but as i forget who said it, it is all relative so therefore, i'm right and u'r all wrong :D

[Xantar]

Originally posted by Shadow_Link
Some scientists actually believe there are up to 10 dimensions, and that there could be more.

Actually, string theory (and M theory with it) say that the universe is 11 dimensional. The math involved in that kind of stuff makes my head hurt.

And please don't ask me any details. I think you'd have to be not only a physics major but have a graduate degree as well to know what's going on.

[GameMaster]

Originally posted by Crono
Really though, I don't think we'll ever find out anyway.

Actually, there are certain individuals who have already figured it out most likely. Steven Hawking to name one?

[Angrist]

Hmm... I believe that time isn't the 4th dimension. I mean, it's not like a direction!! It's just something in your mind....

Scientists have found properties of atoms that can't be explained in 3D, but can in like.. 11D. So that makes you wonder... perhaps we all live in a 18D world... while men can only use 3 of them...

Isn't that 'folding space' from that sci-fi thriller with Sam Neill?? What's it called... it used to be Shadow_Link's location...

[Shadow_Link]

Originally posted by Angrist
Hmm... I believe that time isn't the 4th dimension. I mean, it's not like a direction!! It's just something in your mind....

Scientists have found properties of atoms that can't be explained in 3D, but can in like.. 11D. So that makes you wonder... perhaps we all live in a 18D world... while men can only use 3 of them...

Isn't that 'folding space' from that sci-fi thriller with Sam Neill?? What's it called... it used to be Shadow_Link's location...

The Event Horizon on the brink of a black hole.

Ah, the M-theory in an 11-dimensional theory. If I'm not mistaken, it also has an advantage over the older superstring theories of allowing a more natural merging of gravity with the other three forces.

The current leading candidate though (to my dated knowledge) for a 'theory of everything', superstrings, suggests that we live in a 10-dimensioal universe, with one dimension of time, and nine spatial dimensions. The reason we don't see any evidence for this is that the six extra dimensions of space are curled up on themselves so tightly that they cannot be observed.

[Lord Germano]

Originally posted by Shadow_Link
The Event Horizon on the brink of a black hole.

Ah, the M-theory in an 11-dimensional theory. If I'm not mistaken, it also has an advantage over the older superstring theories of allowing a more natural merging of gravity with the other three forces.

The current leading candidate though (to my dated knowledge) for a 'theory of everything', superstrings, suggests that we live in a 10-dimensioal universe, with one dimension of time, and nine spatial dimensions. The reason we don't see any evidence for this is that the six extra dimensions of space are curled up on themselves so tightly that they cannot be observed.

Scary. I learned alot of this 10-dimensional theory from reading animorphs books :/

Anyway, back to temperature. How could temparature be a dimension? Temperature is just a messure of how fast the molecules are vibrating, so how could movement in several dimensions be labeled as another dimension, or something.

Originally posted by Dyne
Don't people put the infinite-dimesion theory to work? I've read many theories by smart people, where there's countless dimensions, and in each dimension, it's a different, well, time. All of these dimensions could be known as Time itself. Well, I'm more of a fan of quantam physics and theory, however... because then could anyone imagine a 378943638D?

Well, in this big old Universe of ours, anything's possible.

I think your refering to the multiverse theory, but im not sure, maybe im just getting over my head. I read some article in "new scientist" where the theory was that there was a finite number of universes (A really large number to big to print, but still finite)and each one held one possibilty of what could happen in the next instance.

Eg. Your sitting on your butt reading Thatguyagain pretend to have a clue about what he's talking about. In one reality, you think "meh, this guys a moron". In another, you think "I could sure go for some nachos with ice cream". In another, you have a heart attack and drop dead.

Yeah, anyway...

[Shadow_Link]

Originally posted by ThatGuyAgain
I think your refering to the multiverse theory, but im not sure, maybe im just getting over my head. I read some article in "new scientist" where the theory was that there was a finite number of universes (A really large number to big to print, but still finite)and each one held one possibilty of what could happen in the next instance.

Eg. Your sitting on your butt reading Thatguyagain pretend to have a clue about what he's talking about. In one reality, you think "meh, this guys a moron". In another, you think "I could sure go for some nachos with ice cream". In another, you have a heart attack and drop dead.

Yeh, I think he meant that too.

(Only read the following if you're interested).

The Schrodinger's cat thought experiment devised by Edwin Schrodinger says that a live cat and its ghost can both exist at the same time. By the way, a 'thought experiment' is not intended to be carried out 'for real', but its supposed to have such obvious implications that the result is beyond doubt.

Basically, the basis for Schrodinger's argument is the way that the standard interpretation of quantum mechanics says that a quantum entity exists in a superposition of states until it is measured, and then collapses into a definate state.

The cat in the box

Imagine takng such an electron as it emerges from an electron gun and holding it in a set of magnetic or electric fields, without trying to measure its spin immediately. The electron trap inside a piece of apparatus connected to a container of poisonous gas, and everything is sealed inside a large room where a healthy cat lives, supplied with plenty of food and water.

When the spin of the electron is eventually measured, an automatic device will release the gas and kill the cat if the spin is up, but will let the cat live of the spin is down. Schrodinger pointed out that according to the standard interpretation of quantum mechanics, everything sealed inside the room, including the cat, is in a 50:50 superposition of states until somebody 'looks' into the room and 'notices' what has happened. The cat is both dead and alive at the same time.

There are, unsurprisngly, several rival ineterpretations of quantum mechanics which try to avoid this. The one that many cosmologists like involves parallel words. For example, the moment an electron is released, the entire world splits into two copies of itself. In one, the electron has spin down and the cat lives. In the other, the electron has soin up and the cat dies. For a human observer in either world, there is still a 50:50 chance of finding a live cat when you look into the room, but neither cat is in a superposition of states.

So in extending this example, the entire Universe is multiplied into an infinite number of branches, and anything that can possible happen does happen in one (or more) of the branches of reality. Just to reiterate, this experiment really is 'all in the mind', so nothing remotely like this has even been tried with a real cat :D.

*Collapses*.

[Happydude]

Originally posted by Shadow_Link
Yeh, I think he meant that too.

(Only read the following if you're interested).

The Schrodinger's cat thought experiment devised by Edwin Schrodinger says that a live cat and its ghost can both exist at the same time. By the way, a 'thought experiment' is not intended to be carried out 'for real', but its supposed to have such obvious implications that the result is beyond doubt.

Basically, the basis for Schrodinger's argument is the way that the standard interpretation of quantum mechanics says that a quantum entity exists in a superposition of states until it is measured, and then collapses into a definate state.

The cat in the box

Imagine takng such an electron as it emerges from an electron gun and holding it in a set of magnetic or electric fields, without trying to measure its spin immediately. The electron trap inside a piece of apparatus connected to a container of poisonous gas, and everything is sealed inside a large room where a healthy cat lives, supplied with plenty of food and water.

When the spin of the electron is eventually measured, an automatic device will release the gas and kill the cat if the spin is up, but will let the cat live of the spin is down. Schrodinger pointed out that according to the standard interpretation of quantum mechanics, everything sealed inside the room, including the cat, is in a 50:50 superposition of states until somebody 'looks' into the room and 'notices' what has happened. The cat is both dead and alive at the same time.

There are, unsurprisngly, several rival ineterpretations of quantum mechanics which try to avoid this. The one that many cosmologists like involves parallel words. For example, the moment an electron is released, the entire world splits into two copies of itself. In one, the electron has spin down and the cat lives. In the other, the electron has soin up and the cat dies. For a human observer in either world, there is still a 50:50 chance of finding a live cat when you look into the room, but neither cat is in a superposition of states.

So in extending this example, the entire Universe is multiplied into an infinite number of branches, and anything that can possible happen does happen in one (or more) of the branches of reality. Just to reiterate, this experiment really is 'all in the mind', so nothing remotely like this has even been tried with a real cat :D.

*Collapses*.

whoa...lol...you ok dude?:p

anyhoo...that sounds pretty cool and all...but what really bothers me is that question weather or not parallel universes really exist...and how is it posible to check?

[Lord Germano]

Whoa, kewl.

When do they teach me this stuff in school? All we do is look at rocks.

[Mushlafa]

Originally posted by ThatGuyAgain
Whoa, kewl.

When do they teach me this stuff in school? All we do is look at rocks.

Lol.. hehehe... yeah when do we learn cool stuff... anyway... SL thats WAAAAAYYYY to complicated for me to really understand.. how could an electron... ugh.. nevermind im not eaven gonna bother.. so yeah...

*walks out of thread*

[Mechadragon]

My knowledge of parallel universes goes as far as the movie "The One" so I'm not even gonna bother. But this stuff sounds awesome!

[Angrist]

Originally posted by ThatGuyAgain
Whoa, kewl.

When do they teach me this stuff in school? All we do is look at rocks. Like I said, ask your physics teacher about it, he'll tell you some nice theories (that sound like bullpoop!!). :D

Didn't have time to read your story SL, will later.

[Lord Germano]

Dont have a physics teacher. Our science teacher is more a biology teacher.

Maybe in year 11

[Xantar]

Guess what, folks: a lot of that stuff is beyond even college students. I personally am never going to take a course in quantum physics. And there's a good chance that when you get around to it, you won't want to either. It's cool to think about, but when actual equations are involved, it gets ugly and tedious really quickly.

The really amazing thing is that a lot of quantum mechanics has been proven experimentally (don't ask me how. I don't even know how to measure an electron's spin). Apparently, this stuff works.

[Angrist]

Yeah it's pretty cool when you think about it. But... like Xanny said, you don't want to study it yourself! :D

Read 'Time Line' from Crichton when you're interested in quantum physics and the multiverse. :)

Oh yeah, Matrixes often have to do with more than 4 dimensions... I have to solve math stuff in 5D... :eek::D

[Xantar]

Eeerm...Time Line is an okay read, but from what I understand, it doesn't get everything quite right. Doesn't really matter since it's not trying to be real science, but some parts in Crichton's theory are inconsistent (especially with the plot).

By the way, Shadow_Link, did you study physics or something?

[Angrist]

Yeah it's not too scientific, but a nice introduction to it. :)