After Seeing Bungie's Halo 2...

[D-realJos]

...I'm excited as hell to see Factor 5's next GC project. I know I'm not the only one, still, it's a good read, and interesting to think about/discuss. Read on!

What makes me anxious is the fact that developers Factor 5 and Bungie Studios, pertty much went head to head during the launch of Xbox and GameCube, with their first-gen games--Rogue Leader and Halo.

Factor 5 Vs Bungie Studios: Round 1
(GameCube holds it's own against Xbox)

From a technical standpoint, both these games turn many heads, and for the most part, were the only two console games that best showed what each respective system was capable of at the time of release.

Looking back, I think it's safe to say that Rogue Leader had the edge over Halo. While some touchy gamers/fanboys would disagree, the facts will remain.

Amazing bump-mapped textures on par with Halo's
click here (http://www.lucasarts.com/products/rogueleader/images/screens/53.jpg)

Significantly more detailed models
click here (http://www.lucasarts.com/products/rogueleader/images/levels/kothlis/5.jpg)

Displayed more on-screen detail
click here (http://www.lucasarts.com/products/rogueleader/images/screens/38.jpg)

Used self-shadowing extensively. Something Halo completely lacked.
click here (http://www.lucasarts.com/products/rogueleader/images/screens/51.jpg)

--While doing all that, it STILL generally run at 2X the framerate of Halo. Really, Rogue Leader showcased the cababilities of GameCube exceptionally well. Amidst all the opposing debates/flamewars, I had absolutely no doubt that the Cube could give the Box a run for it's money any day, if handled correctly. Afterall, Facfor 5 never once doubted the Cube's power.

If you're familiar with Factor 5, you'd know that the company's president, Julian Eggebrecht, is a very talkative guy(especially before and shortly after the release of Rogue Leader).

I'm sure many of you may still remembers statements like the following.

"...we don’t think there is anything visually you could do on X-Box (or PS2) which can’t be done on GameCube..." Julian continued, "when I said that X-Box and GameCube are on par power-wise I really meant it. " -- interviewed (http://www.planetgamecube.com/specials.cfm?action=profile&id=203) by PlanetGameCube.


It's true that 'talk is cheap', but that's only when you can't back it up. As you've seen with Rogue Leader, quotes like that was easily justified.


Factor 5 vs Bungie Studios: Round 2
(Can the Cube go another?)

Fast-forward to the present, times have changed, Bungie is on to their second-gen title, and while that above statement from Julian may ultimately be true, it is however, no longer substantiated, as there is currently nothing on GameCube that comparatively stands on the same technological level as Halo 2 is aiming for. Can Factor 5 'put' the Cube back on Xbox's level? With the recently announced Halo 2, Bungie/Microsoft seem intent on turning heads yet again. Admittedly, the game screens were and eyefull(I haven't had chance to check out the trailer), and even the most critical of people would find it hard to deny the game's beauty. For Bungie, this will be their second-gen attempt, so naturally they're pulling out all the stops. As they stated;

"Our code squeezes every drop of power out of the Xbox... We're doing dynamic lighting and shadows, per-pixel everything, rendering gigantic, lush environments. The graphical features we're using are so advanced we don't even have buzzwords for them yet." --- Chris Butcher, lead engineer

http://www.bungie.net/images/site/halo/screenshots/sm_scrn_109.jpg (http://www.bungie.net/images/site/halo/screenshots/scrn_109.jpg) <-- click to enlarge...she's a beauty, ain't she? :D

I've been watching these boards closely since the Halo 2 announcement, and it seems the question that lingers on almost everyone thoughts, yet, reluctant to ask is;[edit, I was refering to IGN boards]

"Will we see similarly impressive GameCube software, that rivals the visual seen in Halo 2?"

Now, I do feel that equally incredible feats are possible on GCN, but you have to ask yourself: What are the chances of that occuring by developers who are only now making their first batch of GameCube software, or developers who didn't appeared to really take advantage of the hardware as yet? The chance is there, but slim.

That's why I(like many of you) am anxious to see Factor 5's next line of work . They've already released a GC game, and quite frankly, their knowledge of the hardware have so far proven to be unparallele. What makes them even more interesting, is that comparatively, they are probably as knowledgeable of GameCube, as Bungie is of Xbox. They've had just as much time to tear apart the hardware as Bungie did. If there's any GC game that'll challenge what Bungie is doing on Xbox, anytime soon, that is; it's a high possibility that it'll come out of Factor 5's headquarters. It'd always be interesting to see if their software will "cross paths" with Bungie's again, and how they'll both utilize the potential of the respective console.


Patience, time will tell
(the wait is on!)

Meanwhile, Factor 5 is keeping the lid closed on their possible GC project/s. Can they prove (again) that GameCube can compete on the same level as Xbox? All there is to dwell on is references to an aging head to head between Halo and RL, and vague statements from Factor 5, regarding second-gen software.

--- "In a second generation game we’ll obviously focus on more complicated applications[for GCN's programmable TEV pipeline]." Factor 5, interviewed (http://www.planetgamecube.com/specials.cfm?action=profile&id=203) by PGC.

--- "We have already started work on the next projects and have a bit more time with the Gamecube launch pressure gone. Rogue Leader might seem to do a lot, but look at it as the bare minimum. You can do so many things in a second-generation game, and everybody here is really excited about pushing the Gamecube hardware." --- Factor 5, EGM magazine (fall, 2001)

--- "Within the constraints of a first generation title we are very happy with how much we are able to put into the game[Rogue Leader] and it certainly uses a lot of the Gamecube's features. On the other hand, this is only the tip of the iceberg and we already have a gazillion ideas of what to do in second generation products." --- Factor 5, interviewed (http://www.lucasgames.com/features/interviews/interview062001.shtml) by LucasGames

Sounds promising, and I can't wait to see the fruits of their labor. Whether or not it'll be enough to rival what Bungie is doing, is a probability we'll have to await.


Well, I'll end on that note, but I want to leave you guys with these two questions:

1) Do you believe that--from a technical standpoint--Factor 5 can once again prove that GameCube can indeed keep up with Xbox, by rivaling what Bungie is doing in Halo 2?

2) Is there anyone that thinks Bungie Studios/Xbox may have raised the bar to a point where Factor 5/GameCube can only approach Halo's visuals/technology, but not equal/surpass them?

(note: I believe Factor 5 next game may be an 'original' game, therefore may not be released until a while after Bungie's sequel to Halo. Still, I'm looking forward to see how it'll stack up because both companies are undoubtfully at work on their games simultaneously, even now as we speak)

All comments are welcome, share your thoughts!


PS: I posted this on IGN boards today, so naturally, we got us ourselves a GT version as well. :D
(only minor inconvenience is that you have follow links at the beginning, in order to see the pics[admittedly, I do like the way pics are automatically resized on IGN boards.. keeps threads neat]. Everything else is virtually indentical)

[Jonbo298]

After reading what you made, I am anxiously waiting for the first screens of Factor 5's new game. Since they had I think 8 months to do RL and it looked like that. Who knows what they can pump out if they go for say, 16 months or more. *sigh* It seems soo far away. Also, another great read. Cleared alot of things up. Keep bringing them!:D

[Shadow_Link]

Actually, I think it was a tad bit more than 8 months. It took them 10 months to make RL... That is really impressive.

After seeing Metroid form Retro, I am eagerly waiting Factor 5's next game. Metroid looks fantastic, and I can only think that since it will be released some time earlier than Factor 5's new offering, Factor 5's new gme will be one step ahead not only in the visual department, but also technically.

Though the proof is in the pudding (which hasnt been served yet :D), I do think that technically and graphically, Factor 5's new game will be hovering around the same level as Halo 2.

But nothing can be proved until we see some footage of the new game.

[D-realJos]

how is it that you guys can respond to the main idea/question of the thread(can Factor 5 rival what Bungie is doing), yet, I posted this over at ign, got 88 replies so far, and only remember ONE guy that offered his thoughts on the main idea? ONE GUY! how is that? :confused:

a lot of people are swaying the thread off course, expecially some trolls....

[Angrist]

IGNers suck. :)

Anyway, they've been working on that game for ages now. They had some concept art of the game before we even knew what the Dolphin's real name was!

But.... a year ago the game dissapeared from their site... :confused:

But yeah, the game could compare to Halo 2. We know they have the talent and that GameCube has the power. :D

[Bube]

Originally posted by Angrist
Anyway, they've been working on that game for ages now. They had some concept art of the game before we even knew what the Dolphin's real name was!

Are you talking about Thornado? I thought that was just something like a demo. :confused:

[Jason1]

Thornando was a real game, in devolpment for the Gamecube. It was quietly canned.

Anyways, I think Retro is allready rivaling Halo 2 with Metroid Prime. Im not an expert on crap like that, but I think metroid looks better.

[GameKinG]

I do think F5 can over-shadow Halo 2, but I dont think they will be the ones to do it. I think SK with Too Human will, and then F5 will make and even better looking game.

I wish I could find the interview, but its a rather old one stating the graphics that were being produced now for TH (well now, as in then) are better then the 98' FMV screens:



http://cubemedia.ign.com/media/previews/image/toohuman/overhuman4.jpg

http://cubemedia.ign.com/media/previews/image/toohuman/overhuman6.jpg

http://cubemedia.ign.com/media/previews/image/toohuman/overhuman5.jpg

[Angrist]

Hmm... :unsure:

And I thought we were talking about Thornado... weren't we?

[Jonbo298]

Originally posted by GameKinG
http://cubemedia.ign.com/media/previews/image/toohuman/overhuman4.jpg


Me in 10 years:D. (Minus the weird metal hand thingy)

[D-realJos]

Originally posted by GameKinG
I wish I could find the interview, but its a rather old one stating the graphics that were being produced now for TH (well now, as in then) are better then the 98' FMV screens:


It was a statement by Denis Dyack during his interaction with members on IGN boards. I know where to find it, although, it'd take some time.

In his last Q&A, I got a few questions in.

Me:why bother to run the game[ED] on a sub engine rather than use the full-blown Too Human engine?

Denis:The games are different and we have to [do] different things in ED than Too Human. Too Human is more complex in certain areas which I am not going to talk about.

yeah, so vague...

[DarkMaster]

wut the hell is too human about anyway?

[Angrist]

Oh yeah, you're the one that keeps e-mailing companies. :cool:

Jonbo, that avatar.... what on earth is it?!? Say that's not you! :Puke:

[Jonbo298]

Originally posted by Angrist
Jonbo, that avatar.... what on earth is it?!? Say that's not you! :Puke:

Its Fat Bastard! That could be me in 5 years, with a slow progression to 10;)(look up)

[Perfect Stu]

Sorry to break the party here guys, but Xbox is a hell of a lot more powerful than Gamecube. If Factor 5 ever makes a game that looks as good or better than Halo 2, some other developer willl top that with some other game on Xbox.

All the programming tests show that Xbox is the BEAST of this generation.

[Jonbo298]

Everyone knows the XBox is the most powerful. But there are some little, maybe a few big things that say the 'Cube can do, but the 'Box can't. Or things the 'Box can do that the 'Cube can't do. That's what Factor 5 is trying to show (I think:unsure: ). Basically what things the 'Cube can produce that the other console(s) can't. And vice-versa to Bungie and whatnot.

[GameKinG]

TH takes place in the future, and your a cop or some kind of force...maybe you were running from cops..I dunno. The interview, or post apparently, says this future wont look like a hollywood "flying car" future. But a more realistic one, a little more reasonable...

Anyway, about xbox. The only thing I think a xbox game would have over cube is a memory advantage, and a little texture. But other then that I have no doubt you could work any game that comes to xbox for the cube. Just ask factor 5.

[bobcat]

Yeh it's funny Xbox main marketing tactics is "the most powerful console with a hdd and online adapter", and the GC doesn't market it's power nearly enough, yet it produces jaw dropping visuals like seen in Rogue Leader.

I still think Factor 5 know the GC hardware better than many other companies. Just looking @ Rogue Leader, I think it's pretty damn obvious.

The thing is does Factor 5 want their next title to be a graphical powerhouse like Rogue Leader? Or will they be taking a different approach?

It's pretty clear want Bungee are out to achieve top notch visuals as one of their goals of Halo 2.


"Our code squeezes every drop of power out of the Xbox... We're doing dynamic lighting and shadows, per-pixel everything, rendering gigantic, lush environments. The graphical features we're using are so advanced we don't even have buzzwords for them yet." --- Chris Butcher, lead engineer


Then again I thought Halo was rushed :confused: I think that's why they dropped the frame rates. So maybe with a bit more time on their hands, Bungee can make, yet again, another visual powerhouse.

1) Do you believe that--from a technical standpoint--Factor 5 can once again prove that GameCube can indeed keep up with Xbox, by rivaling what Bungie is doing in Halo 2?

I think they can. Anything is possible with Factor 5 mixed with the Cube Hardware. But you did bring up a good point there Dreal. Halo ran at approximately half the speed (fps) as Rogue Leader, so that visually Halo could look more refined. Personally I still think visually, Rogue Leader surpassed this.

Therefore I think it's possible for Factor 5 to produce on par (or even surpass) the visuals of Halo 2 assuming this is one of Factor 5's objectives for this new game.

2) Is there anyone that thinks Bungie Studios/Xbox may have raised the bar to a point where Factor 5/GameCube can only approach Halo's visuals/technology, but not equal/surpass them?

Hmm not sure. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

[Old Skool]

Funny but I thought RS2 only looked ok with its bad ass pop up on the death start level and all. And I thought Halo looked better with all the AI helpers running around the sea hitting the shore line troop transports flying over head, the game looked stunning at the time. But where as Gamecube has not really moved on from its launch the Xbox has in so many ways! Enclave for one looks amazing along with so many other game the fact is Xbox does have more power the Gamecube but it is only just starting to show it all thanks to the new NVIDIA new CG code engine (AKA C for Graphics). I tell you now Xbox’s 64MB of ram and hard drive will start to show where Gamecube went wrong next year just go have a look at BC or project Ego there you will see not only what can be done with graphics but a total new kind of Game play not found on any other console. In the end Gamecube can have all the power it likes but with only 48MB ram split for the whole console and no hard drive to dump to it can never keep up with the Xbox. Not that it even has the same amount of power in the first place. Oh and call me what you like but I have seen almost all the new Gamecube games coming out and they just don’t even come close to the Xbox in fact a lot of them look just a bit better then a PS2 game and as for Metroid Prime it does look but not that good in many was it looks like a last gen PC game.

[Old Skool]

Screen shots of BC on XBox

http://www.gamesdomain.com/xbox/previews/bc_4.jpg
http://www.gamesdomain.com/xbox/previews/bc_1.jpg
http://www.gamesdomain.com/xbox/previews/bc_14.jpg

[Jonbo298]

In the long run, the 'Box will most likely out-perform the GC, but only because of the HD IMO. I still think the Hi-Speed Port underneath the GC is going to become a mini-HD. So, as my late Great Grandma always told me, "Don't count your chickens before they hatch. One might be a rooster":D

[GameKinG]

Thats just thing, gamecube hasnt progress, but no other comany has even matched Factor 5 on cube, and occording to SK TH will.

Factor 5 knows how to work with the cube, snd by the time they get something totaly amazing out, other companies will probably be able to get something like rogue squadron out. Not to say that thats bad...RL:RS2 looks great, I think it looks the same if not better then most games on xbox, except Halo 2.

[One Winged Angel]

Originally posted by Perfect Stu
Sorry to break the party here guys, but Xbox is a hell of a lot more powerful than Gamecube. If Factor 5 ever makes a game that looks as good or better than Halo 2, some other developer willl top that with some other game on Xbox.

All the programming tests show that Xbox is the BEAST of this generation.

yeah, especially considering that it's almost as easy to make games on the X-Box as it is on the Gamecube, Microsoft can easily top that.

[bobcat]

Originally posted by Perfect Stu
Sorry to break the party here guys, but Xbox is a hell of a lot more powerful than Gamecube. If Factor 5 ever makes a game that looks as good or better than Halo 2, some other developer willl top that with some other game on Xbox.

All the programming tests show that Xbox is the BEAST of this generation.

I believe the point of the topic was to see if Factor 5 can rival the visuals of Halo2 on GC, not which console is more powerful.

But you're correct in saying that Xbox does have the upper hand with the graphics, but GC ain't that far behind. GC can still come up with competitive visuals.

Ps2 well.............but out of all my 3 consoles the most powerful console is being underplayed, and the least powerful console is being played the most. Funny :unsure:

That sure is saying something.

[D-realJos]

Originally posted by bobcat



Ps2 well.............but out of all my 3 consoles the most powerful console is being underplayed, and the least powerful console is being played the most. Funny :unsure:

That sure is saying something. [/B]

Yeah, that concept changes the dynamics of everything, and ultimately points to what counts. THE GAMES!


Perfect Stu, Where are these performances test you speak of? Better yet, how do specific tests and theoric performance where many variable factors are VIRTUALLY NONEXISTANT, relates to what you can do in a full-featured game?

... I don't believe Xbox has much of an edge over GameCube. Factor 5--a developer who have both hardware--seems to think they are both pretty much on par.

I think people are a little swayed by these multiplatform games, which don't do much to push neither of the 3 consoles, as far as I'm concerned.

I think GameCube can give Xbox a run untill this generation is dead. It's hard for Xbox to seperate itself by a significant margin, for the simple reason that they are things GameCube as just simply better at, and developers will find ways to use what advantages it has. It's really up to the developers get to work on some elaborate, specialized code for each.

Unfortunately(for GC, that is), Xbox's more advance features like it's vertex and pixel shaders, are pretty easy to use (for basic operations) under the more familiar Direct X8, as a result, pertty Xbox games are surfacing quicker than pretty GC games. (That's yet another reason people will always tent to rate Xbox as a "monster, in it's own league." They don't look at the best examples on both consoles, but look at the quantity).

On the other hand, with a game like Halo 2, the coders job isn't made much easier--even with DX8--than GCN coders looking to dig really deep in the hardware. As of right now, to do such elaborate shader effects, programmers have to do lots of brainstorming through assembly level programming.

So all in all, I don't think there's a question of whether GC can compete with Xbox, it's more about when the games will surface. Looking at the quotes in the original thread, I'm willing to bet Factor 5 will be the first developer out the gate(amoung GC devs) to rival what Bungie is doing.

[Old Skool]

I still don't think Gamecube can keep up even if it has the power it does not have the RAM to pull off such worlds (splitting the ram up can be a good move but it always come back to bite you in the ass later). It does not have the hard drive to pull off a huge dynamic world so every thing will be scripted still it does not have the Xbox’s programmable vertex shaders let along two of them and lets face it you can code some nice tricks to over come some of the effects the shaders do but every nice bit of code hit’ the hardware more then vertex shaders would. And let’s face it you talk about programming closers to the hard ware on Gamecube but Xbox can do the same with the ability to code strait to ring0 which is some thing it’s PC counter part can not do well running any windows OS. The thing is after talking to a lot of developers over the last year or so almost all of them are now saying Xbox can just do more then any other console and were not talking in house teams here we are talking the best of the best (Ok I will put my self out here, at ECTS I had a chat with one of the UK’s leading software houses which as I thought seems to think Xbox has more useable power then any other console they also went onto say that there new Xbox games were only pushing the console to about 60% of what the console is capable of. Sorry I can not and will not say who it is, but hey look over at Xbox365 soon to see a full on interview with them). :)

[Old Skool]

Put it this way I’m not trying to put the Gamecube down in any way for the money it’s one hell of a console to have with some top games to boot. And as you can see it can pull some very nice visuals far better then the PS2 could every do but in the end you get what you pay for!

[Shadow_Link]

Originally posted by Old Skool
I still don't think Gamecube can keep up even if it has the power it does not have the RAM to pull off such worlds (splitting the ram up can be a good move but it always come back to bite you in the ass later). It does not have the hard drive to pull off a huge dynamic world so every thing will be scripted still it does not have the Xbox’s programmable vertex shaders let along two of them and lets face it you can code some nice tricks to over come some of the effects the shaders do but every nice bit of code hit’ the hardware more then vertex shaders would. And let’s face it you talk about programming closers to the hard ware on Gamecube but Xbox can do the same with the ability to code strait to ring0 which is some thing it’s PC counter part can not do well running any windows OS. The thing is after talking to a lot of developers over the last year or so almost all of them are now saying Xbox can just do more then any other console and were not talking in house teams here we are talking the best of the best (Ok I will put my self out here, at ECTS I had a chat with one of the UK’s leading software houses which as I thought seems to think Xbox has more useable power then any other console they also went onto say that there new Xbox games were only pushing the console to about 60% of what the console is capable of. Sorry I can not and will not say who it is, but hey look over at Xbox365 soon to see a full on interview with them). :)

Not to be rude or anything, but could you type with punctuation next time :D.

I just want to stress on the fact that it's not 'just' the graphics that outline how powerful a console is. The best example of this is is between Resident Evil 1 and Rogue Leader. One game obviously has the upper hand in the visual department, yet anyone with sufficient knowledge in making games can tell you that Rogue Leader pushes the system a lot more than Resident Evil. What with the impressive geometry, many light passes, bump mapping etc...

Anyway, most of you probably already knew this :D.

After hearing quotes from not only SK, but also F5 about how they will totally push the GC in whatever way possible, it will be interesting when the results come out.

Right now, it is too early to tell anything, as programmers have got to grips with the Xbox and PS2, and alot are only 'starting' to get to grips with the GC hardware, well, with all that is waiting to be used :D.

I reckon 'atleast' by the end of next year, we will have a good grasp of what's what.

Lastly, I don't think there's much doubt in my mind that up till the end of 2003, the Xbox will be doing many impressive things, and that after that period, the GC will start to even out as developers will know how to 'properly' use the fast RAM.

[thatmariolover]

Originally posted by GameKinG
I wish I could find the interview, but its a rather old one stating the graphics that were being produced now for TH (well now, as in then) are better then the 98' FMV screens:

I'm not sure which interview you're reffering to, but maybe it's this one? It was conducted by the now dead GIA. It was done back when Too Human was still planned for the PSX.

You guys are just lucky I had this saved on my hard drive. It could have been lost forever :D

"GIA: Most of our readers likely aren't familiar with Silicon Knights, the company. How did it all begin?

Denis: Silicon Knights was founded in 1992, when there were two of us at the time, Rick Goertz and myself. While we were doing our computer science degrees, we decided to make our first game, Cyber Empires. From there, we went from two to four people with Cyber Empires, to eight people with Dark Legions, to twenty-two people with Legacy of Kain, and now with the projects we're working on now -- Too Human and Eternal Darkness -- we're now up to forty-five. So that's sort of where it came from. The name Silicon Knights itself was created simply because we wanted people to have faith in our games. We want to be the knights in shining armor in the games industry. So when people see our games, we want to be associated with quality. Someone sees a Silicon Knights game, they say "Oh, I know this is going to be good." That's what we want.

GIA: What is the goal and philosophy behind Silicon Knights? What motivates you in the creation of a game like Too Human?

Denis: We want people to have the perfect aesthetic experience when they play a game. Our goal is to engross people, to have them feel and live in the environment that we've created. We want people to learn something, we want people to appreciate our artistic vision of what we're talking about. That's the goal of every game we make. In order to do that, you have to focus on gameplay, story, music, sound effects, graphics, and technology. Having all these factors is key to having a great game.

So we try to really position it in such a way that people can appreciate all aspects of it. We're very team focused -- there is no star at Silicon Knights. It's a group together. The days of two people creating a game are long gone. Quite frankly, we consider ourselves very much like a guild. We do very special things here, and together as a group the guild can accomplish more.

GIA: So, how would you describe Too Human, in your own words?

Denis: Too Human is a futuristic psychological thriller. It's a real-time adventure game that mixes elements of role-playing, like Kain, cinematography like Final Fantasy, and a solid storyline. Too Human is also very much like Metal Gear Solid where we give the player the option to explore things the way he wants to and be stealth if he wants to, or be action packed if he wants to. That's the best way I would describe it. We really think it's going to break the mold on a lot of games. We've never seen a single game that's similar to it out there, quite frankly. It's role-playing under the surface. Maybe some people would classify it as adventure. We classify it as...what would be a really neat experience in the future. What would it be like in the year 2450? Well, this is what we think it's like.

GIA: What kind of specific RPG elements are within the game? Can you talk with characters around the world, much like Kain with the Beguile form?

Denis: The level of interaction between the NPCs is not something we really focused on. There's definitely going to be communication between you and NPCs, no question there. But is that a major element of the game? No, not really. The major role-playing elements in the game are how you improve as you go through missions and use weapons more. Beyond the typical role-playing of using a weapons more and getting better, you can also cybernetically enhance yourself. So if you get an optical implant, your targeting will be faster, better, and more accurate. There's almost a two-way branch in which you can improve yourself through the role-playing. Beyond that, there's a very, very intricate story. And it's non-linear -- you affect the game as you play. That's what I think makes the role-playing aspect stand our apart from a lot of other games. I know at some level some games do a little bit of these, we've done them altogether. And, of course, the immersion factor of the environments, cinematics, voice over -- you really get to feel and hear how John Franks feels as he's going through the level.

GIA: Does he offer any commentary on his situation as he goes through the game?

(laughs around the table)

Denis: All the time...all the time. That's the main focus, actually. It's very much like a Blade Runner noire...how does he feel as he goes through the prison and sees the inmates in there? How does he feel when he's on the floating city? The players can expect the same level of detail in the voiceover as we had in Kain since the same people made it.

Ken: It has a little bit more.

Denis: People will not be disappointed in that area with Too Human -- a matter of fact, I think they'll be impressed because it's much better.

GIA: Was there any sort of inspiration in John Franks character, either in his appearance or personality?

Denis: I guess there were some inspirations -- many science fictions, many themes...

GIA: In a lot of games, you're starting a character with a pre-defined personality, but at the same time you're starting with a clean slate, and you follow through with the development of the character and take his role.

Denis: One of the things that's going on that may not be apparent through the cinematics, at the beginning of the game, you're going in undercover into Aesir. You're an undercover police officer infiltrating a corporation into their security forces to investigate another corporation.

There's a lot under the surface going on. So you've got to report back to your police lieutenant. We talk about crime, and what law enforcement would be like in the future. So all those aspects as well make it multi-dimensional. There are a lot of levels there. As well, there's flashes of strange creatures all around, and it all makes sense. There are no loose ends, it's all tied together.

Another thing about Too Human as well is that it si founded on principles of hard science. We discuss orbital strings, and many other technologies. We're not going for a "space opera," we are going for science fiction that is grounded in true science. So there are a lot of things to learn. It's going to be interesting. We're not saying that space opera is bad -- obviously, Star Wars is a good example of a space opera. It's just that's not the direction we chose to go in.

Ken: Personally, on my part, anyway, it's an attempt to get away from the Star Trek attitude where sciences are invented in order to support a plot gimmick, used to support one episode, and one episode only. The advantage in Too Human...the technology and world of Too Human are rather minimal compared to what we have today. But, basically, the advances have been spread through every possible layer. For example, portable fusion devices supply unlimited power. So, basically, what you're seeing in Too Human is super-powered jets that can stay aloft for years without ever having to land. Most of the technology is based around that. We do not ever say that some weird soliton wave, or something, it's sort of based on principles we know about today. It's very speculative.

GIA: Do you think human society could eventually reach the horrific, technological scenario behind Too Human?

Denis: Absolutely -- we're almost there.

GIA: So why wait until 2450?

Ken: There are reasons for why things are in 2450, reasons why Too Human doesn't take place next year, or next century.

Denis: There's a history built up. One of the things that we've put into Too Human that's not in a lot of games is a digital archive. It's a detailed history readout of the game itself. If you want to find out what happened between now and 2450, you can look it up in the history records.

GIA: The majority of games, role-playing or otherwise, are created in Japan, or are heavily influenced by Japanese artistry. Are there any such elements in Too Human?

(more laughs around table)

Denis: Without question. We truly want to make a game that appeals worldwide to everyone. There are definitely oriental elements -- Japanese elements specifically -- in Too Human. You'll see that in the intro cinematic. And these guys are laughing because there's just a ton. There's lots.

Ted: Wasn't really that much laughing...

Denis: What's that?

Ted: More like grinning.

Denis: Oh, grinning? Oh, okay. Ted gets happy when he thinks about it. (grins)

GIA: So there must have been quite a bit of development and planning of the actual storyline and the world before other aspects of the game were fleshed out?

Denis: Absolutely. If you think about the fact that we developed the actual content before Kain, we've had a lot of time to think about it. And it's those kind of things that I think create great content. We're not a company that suddenly creates an idea and then throws it together in a month, saying "Okay, here's the game we're doing." We've got a lot of concepts that are always continually going that go on that we work on for years before we come out with them. And I think that's the way it has to be because you can't create good content any other way. It has to be well thought out, and everyone has to have a passion for it. The fact that you're going to have a team that's going to work on a project for as long as we have, the team has to be behind it; has to be passionate. Otherwise it's going to die. You've heard of all the nightmares that have gone on for six years, have had seven teams, yada yada yada, we're not like that. Some places have a problem keeping a visionary on a team. We have several visionaries on all our projects. There's not a single visionary on Too Human -- there's several, same with Eternal Darkness. Keeping that vision is what's important, knowing what direction we'd like to go on.

GIA: So how did the storyline of Too Human come about? Where did it all begin?

Denis: It was really sort of a thought on technology. One of the things that people worry about, especially today, with technology replacing everything we have in society, a lot of people are worried about being phased out because of the computer. We really address that issue in Too Human. If technology gets really, really advanced, will we be replaced?

A lot of people are frightened by technology...a lot of people look at computer games like a technological industry. It's really not. We're a creative industry. Regardless of how much money we spend on our machines...fifty thousand dollars, a hundred thousand dollars...they're just pencils. Without the people behind that, it's meaningless. Without the talent, without the people, we're nothing.

That being the case, we thought about all this issue and said, "We really need to explore this, we really need to talk about that in a computer game." That's not the only issue we explore, though. We also thought that we really haven't seen a really good cyberpunk role-playing game, and we thought we should be the ones to do it. Take an approach from Final Fantasy, and all the games that have really inspired us -- what can we do to make a great game? That's sort of where it came from.

GIA: 486s and Pentium 90s were used extensively in the development of Kain. How far have things come from then?

Denis: Yeah, we have dual processor machines. As you can hopefully see from our cinematics, we've improved that massively. We're all PC based, though, and we used 3D Studio Max primarily, as well as World Construction Set for a lot of fractal backgrounds, so that's why the terrain looks so realistic. Great program.

GIA: How much voice acting is planned? Any hard number?

Ken: It's probably at about...two and a half hours.

Ted: We've got a lot.

Denis: We've been to the studio twice now...we flew down to LA, did the voice acting there. We might go to the studio one more time, we're not sure yet. It's dictated by two things: how much we think we need it, and how much disc space we have left. We're running out fast.

GIA: Even with four discs?

Denis: Yes...we are concerned at all times about disc space because going over four discs would be relatively insane, and we don't want to do that. If we had a DVD, it'd be less of a problem. Who knows, maybe we will be the first game company to have a multiple DVD game when it's time?

GIA: Have there been any major technological challenges in the development of Too Human?

Denis: There's always problems, and I'll let Spike and Doug, as being our chief and lead programmer, address some of these problems, but I think we've pushed the PlayStation further than anyone else has, as far as we can see.

James: Yeah...it's cutting edge technology. We've approached the problem of a three dimensional environment differently, I think, than just about anyone has in the past. It has such a difference...significantly better immersion for the player.

Doug: The way that the environments can be assembled by the designers really tends to surprise us. When we're doing the programming, we put it together one way, and then the designs come in and use the tools that we've created in ways that just astound us.

Denis: One of the interesting things about the technology, and the way we looked at the media with the technology -- which is really the same thing, in many ways -- there's no limit to the size of levels we have. We can literally create a level that goes on forever. The player would never notice...we just load what we need, and then you just keep going. Mind you, we don't do that, but we have the ability to.

GIA: When Final Fantasy VIII was released in Japan, a lot of people were surprised that it had pushed things up to four discs, thinking there might even be a lot of disc swapping. How will Too Human handle that?

Denis: We definitely will not have a lot of disc swap. We want to avoid that. Our goal is to have it so once you swap out a disc, you never have to go back to it.

GIA: Is that a little bit more difficult since Too Human is less linear, and you're not forced down one specific path?

Denis: It will be technically challenging. We should be able to do it, I think. We're still very positive on it. We're not final yet; we're not even at alpha yet. What you've seen is even before alpha.

GIA: So when did you actually get down to work on Too Human? Immediately after Kain?

Denis: (pauses) I guess so, yes. It goes back a long way.

GIA: All the way back in 1996?

Ken: We had time to think about it, because the proposal for Too Human was worked on and started before the proposal for Kain. Basically, it's been in the back of our minds for a long time. As soon as Kain stopped, Too Human kind of took off. Concepts were going back until 1993, as well. And then the long hard road until where we are now started.

GIA: And now, the absolute, most important question: when do you expect a release for Too Human?

Denis: That's not set yet. We need to set that, we know everyone wants to know. We don't want to sound arrogant, but it'll be ready when it's ready. But it won't too long. We're not going to say it'll be out soon, and then not come out a year later. It's coming, we haven't announced a date yet -- we need more time to think about when we want to launch it.

GIA: And, of course, there's still quite a bit of leeway because the PlayStation 2's release date is still more a year off, especially here in North America.

Denis: Yeah. Put it this way: if we wanted to make this Christmas, we certainly can. It's whether we want to do that. That decision is currently on the plate right now.

GIA: How complicated and in-depth will the interaction between characters be in Too Human?

Denis: It depends on what level you mean. Certainly, within the plot, there's a lot of plot lines going on at the same time. Will you be able to communicate with individuals in the levels, and the enemies? Yes, definitely. Will you be able to use that communication to your advantage? Yes, definitely. That's probably all I should say about it right now.

GIA: And character development will take place beyond simply John Franks, I'd imagine.

Denis: Oh yes, definitely. (laughs) People won't be disappointed by that aspect. Even as you can see the flight sequence to the prison, all the character interaction that's going on there, every character in there develops on their own. Every character. A lot of that will happen in ways people will not be able to predict.

GIA: And you'll be able to go through a second, third, fourth time and find nuances and elements you missed earlier?

Denis: Oh, definitely. Actually, our guess is that the way we designed the game, people will want to play it more than once. Once people get to the end, they'll say "Oh, I get it," and then they'll want to play it again -- and which is very much the result in Metal Gear Solid and a lot of other games where you really get...what the point was and you really want to revisit it again. It's kind of like the movie The Usual Suspects. You sit there, you watch it, and you want to watch it again immediately afterwards. We're happy with it.

GIA: And the multiple endings will play a large role in that?

Denis: Yes, we let the player do what they want. From that perspective, Too Human is really a game of choice. We leave the choice up to the individual. By the time you finish the game, you'll understand the choices you have made. There are some that are inherent, and there are some that aren't. Some are above the surface, while there are some that are subliminal.

GIA: Are there any inside jokes being put into the game?

(laughs around table)

Denis: Yes...there always are, at some level. One example of some of the inside jokes that go on between the pilots and John Franks is actually a lot of the dialog that happens here at the office, so in that regard it's pretty funny. So a lot of the things that people say are saying we say around the office all the time. There's always tons more. There's probably some than I don't know about, some that Ken doesn't know about. In some way, people put their own in and don't realize it."

[Angrist]

Ok..... perhaps you could hav just posted the part where he says what GameKing wants to hear... :)