Linux, little help?

[Null]

ok, I got terribly bored of windows. wanted something new.


I got SuSE Linux 8.0


Its actually very nice. much of it is like windows. actually lots of it is like the Mac OS too.


Anywho. I'm getting pretty good in it all. but 1 problem.


So if anyone here knows Linux or uses it....

How do i access my Windows drives (the drives / partitions my Windows OS is on with all my files) I know you can. i know you gotta Mount something to make it work. but i cant quite figure it out yet.

sooo if anyone can thro out some help............. i have no idea if anyone here even uses it. but ah well

[gekko]

Pikachu should be coming through soon. I haven't used Linux in ages, but I know I was able to access that partition.

And isn't this why they make manuals? :)

[-apu-]

bah!!!
who needs manuals when you can mess around to the point where you need to reformat your hardrive:D

[Null]

lol

well unfortunatly the cheap ass linux manual doesnt cover this topic.


and i cant find it in the help menu of the OS either.


i've made somewhat progress tho since this topic.

was able to mount the windows HD, and access it. but all my files were locked. permission denied.

so i have to log in as root to view them i think. gotta try that after i log off here. but should be a way to set it for all users... mebbe i can do that once in root *shrugs*

going off to try now.

oh. but i found a way to put a menu bar across the top of the screen. file, new, desktop, windows. help. Reminds me of the old Mac's i used....... Macs still have that?

[-apu-]

it may be kind of stupid to ask this question so late but......being me....i still don't understand y u spent u'r money on getting a linux os:confused:

[Null]

Originally posted by -apu-
it may be kind of stupid to ask this question so late but......being me....i still don't understand y u spent u'r money on getting a linux os:confused:


few reasons. i think i know what your point is, but i'll include every reason anyway.

1. dont like Microsoft/windows much.
2. Wanted to use something new.
3. I'm Impatiant. (dont want to wait while downloading 3 CD's worth of Linux when i can just go out and buy it.... even if i do have high speed and can download it fairly quickly.)
4. Money is not a big deal to me. I mean honestly the money i spent on this Linux was pocket change. i took it straight from my wallet. Not like i had to use a credit card or anything.

[-apu-]

i c....and exactly HOW much did this "pocket change" add up to:D

[sdtPikachu]

Aha, I am back for the time being.

Accessing your windows hard drive can be a pain in the arse, which (I have to say) is mainly due to the file systems Windows uses (don't worry, I'll save the rant about how crap they are for another time).

If you've mounted your harddrives - cool. Personally, when I made my system, I arranged my HDD's and partitons so that all my windows progs were stored on an NTFS partiton, on the same disc as my Reiser FS Linux partiton.
All my documents are stored on a seperate FAT32 hard drive.
Unfortuately, most installers tend to be of the mid that you want to keep your windows and Linux worlds entirely seperate (this isn't totally stupid; to inexperienced users, it can have very vasty repercussions).

Now, what file system are you using for your documents? I would REALLY suggest you take it our of the windows partiton by the way. If you give yourself write access to your windows drive as your user, you can totally f**k up windows by accident. Move all your docs into a seperate partition (you can do what I did and use partition magic to reformat with data still on the drives, but obviously back up your data!)

Now, to your original problem - as your user login, you have no R/W access to your windows drive, right? I take it you're using windows XP or 2000...

Windows today uses two main file systems - FAT32 and NTFS. FAT32 is used ny Windows ME and older, whilst NTFS is used by windows XP and 2k. Whilst Linux can read NTFS fine, it is unreliable writing to it (this is because M$ won't release any documentation on the file system, so the Linux coders can't find out how the "write" commands function). So giving yourself write access to an NTFS partition is a bad idea.

If your data is on a FAT32 partition, Linux can read and write with no problem at all. But since FAT32 is a rather old format, it doesn't support the "file permisions" system that Linux and other UNIX systems use - so when you install, the installer errs on the side of caution and will only give root read AND write access - all other users won't be able to write.

To make matters worse, because of the way FAT32 is structured, Linux can't make other users gain R/W access just by clicking on the "change file permissions" box. In order to gain access to a FAT32 partition in a user login, you'll need to edit a small config file called fstab (file system table)...

This resides in /etc/fstab, and can be opened in an editor like gedit or whatever. You then need to find the device you are mounting (such as "hda1"), and add a umask string to it - typically umask=0 if you want every user to be able to access the drive and have rwx (read, write, execute) access to it.

The same can be done with an NTFS partition I believe, but obviously with the write access being dodgy you won't want to spend too much time mucing about with it...!

Just post your fstab settings up, and I can show you where to add the umask string if you want.

I'm glad to see you enjoying Linux... even if you just stick to the GUI's, I think you'll find it quite nice. But the real power comes when you start learning how to edit the config files and using the terminal... bwah ha ha ha hah!

Unfortunately, I am still working on that one... :D

Null, I don't know if you've tried them already, but I have found the USENET community a blast. Post to alt.os.linux.suse (if theer is one), be reasonably polite, and people will often tell you the reason for your problem and more often than not how to solve it. Also, plugging "linux howto *the-thing-you-want-to-do*" will bring back a slew of online howto's.

And now to the individual requests:

i found a way to put a menu bar across the top of the screen. file, new, desktop, windows. help. Reminds me of the old Mac's i used....... Macs still have that?

Yeah, both KDE and GNOME (I prefer GNOME myself - KDE tries too hard to be windows IMO) have options for a MacOS 9-esque interface. I don't know how KDE does with this, but I've also seen GNOME desktops that are indistinguishable from OSX (including the dock). This was put in cos lots of PPC users wanted Linux, but they liked the way MacOS did things... so lo it appeared.

well unfortunatly the cheap ass linux manual doesnt cover this topic.

Well, the things is SuSE, like most other distributors, makes money from providing support since they can't make it by selling you software... so bundled documentation doesn't tend to be exhasutive. However, a quick google and you're usually overrun with help pages (and there are probably plenty included on the distro CD's as well).

i still don't understand y u spent u'r money on getting a linux os

There are a couple of other reasons...
1) The boxed distributions often come with commercial software that ISN'T free... examples include StarOffice 6, and a few other commercial apps. These progs aren't included in the download versions, since SuSE/whoever has to pay to put them in their distributions.

2) Paying for a boxed distro means a small portion of the money you pay goes to SuSE so that they can spend money to improve things like the installers, the menu editors, blah blah blah. I would love to buy a boxed distro if I could afford it, but at the moment I can't (yes yes I know they're only about £40 for the basic versions, but the free version has everything I need for the moment!).

Many distributors also often donate to the FSF (the free software foundation) and other in order so that people can professionally campaign about the benefits of open source programs.

Just as a side note: be very, very careful if you ever have to reinstall Windows from the CD (copying an image from a hidden part of the HD tends to work fine). My friend tried to install XP (erm, legit version honest - he hates windows with a passion, and only uses it for games, and decided to upgrade cos some games were working pants on ME), and the installer nuked his Linux partitions... apparently, XP searches your HDD's and if it find sectors it can't read (i.e. almost every Linux file system there is), it marksthem as "bad" and reformats them, only this doesn't tend to work very well, and often f**ks up the windows install too.

So if windows ever crashes and burns, go in with Linux, hook out all the important files, burn them onto CD, and then try. I would wonder why M$ built an automatic "Linux destroyer" into XP, but I've already used most of my cynicism today.

Damnit, I think I'll start my rant from above. FAT32 and NTFS have a nasty tendency to cr@p out if there is a blip in power, resulting in a corrupt sector. If that sector happens to be a regsitry file, or similar, Windows is fscked.
On the other hand, you can pull the plug out of a Linux box that is writing to disk on a journalling file system (such as the excellent Reiser FS), and it won't care when you reboot. It'll just continue where it left off.

You may also note that Linux doesn't come with a defrag utility. :D

[gekko]

Originally posted by Null
oh. but i found a way to put a menu bar across the top of the screen. file, new, desktop, windows. help. Reminds me of the old Mac's i used....... Macs still have that?

Yes. Mac OS X changed a few things though. Program switching isn't done up there. And the Apple Menu is for system functions, not opening programs. But yes, it's still there.

[-apu-]

how much did this cost???? I mean i don't no how much Apple's OS costs but Windows is like $250 and that's not a sum that i'd pay "to try something new"

[Null]

Originally posted by -apu-
how much did this cost???? I mean i don't no how much Apple's OS costs but Windows is like $250 and that's not a sum that i'd pay "to try something new"


SuSE Linux Personnal - $50

SuSE Linux Professional - $90

[Null]

And as for everything pikachu wrote.

Thanks. understanding it a bit more now.


When i first got the linux. i tried putting it on a seperate drive...

it installed that lilo boot loader. and it basically screwed my whole PC over.

boot up and 07 07 07 07 07 07 07 07 down the screen.

i could do nothing to get into either OS to delete the boot loader.

had to reinstall windows. from that point on I had it load Lilo on a floppy so it couldnt do that.

still tho. All 07's down the screen when booting.

finally i took the windows drive out. Made the linux the master. reintalled linux and it worked...

i thought about this for a while.

got some more of my pocket change :D and bot another 80 GB Hard drive.

i partitioned that into 2 seperate ones. Installed linux First. worked fine. Then installed XP (XP gave me an option of what partition to intall XP on) but only NTFS.

so now it worked like...... Boot up = Windows............. Boot up w/ Floppy = Linux. (which i might reverse how that works once getting linux understood)

my old windows drive is now the Slave. so i would beleive it is also NTFS...... But, if Linux can read Fat32 better, i could just thro everything from the slave drive over, format the drive as fat32 then put all the stuff i want shared (ex: Mp3's) on the fat32 drive.







Oh yes. and pika.... which is your favorite linux? I had mandrake long ago. and i hate the thing. SuSE im finding i like very much. everything seems quicker and easier to set up on it. like my internet. i just clicked Auto setup and it did it for me. lol

[-apu-]

Glad we can help with u'r ummmm.............errrrr....problem:D

[sdtPikachu]

Null, it sound slike your first install went a bit pear shaped somehow.

The most usual configuration for a linux install is for your primary IDE master (hda) to be split into a windows partition and a linux partition. You install windows first, and then install linux on top of that. This is because windows always assumes it's the only OS on the system, and overwrites the master boot record (which holds your linux booter, lilo or grub). Also, there's been many tales of XP installs totally raping linux partitions when it's installed with a system that already has linux on it, so maybe another reason to be careful - more on this as it appears!

I have a 30 GB master split into windows system (5 GB), linux (5 GB) and a documents partition (18 GB). My 40 GB slave has a 500 MB linux swap folder, and the rest is all FAT32 documents. If you have two hard drives, you get a big improvement in swap speed if your swa partition is on a different hard drive from your system, and you get an even bigger performance increase if your system hard drive is the fastest in your system. The system I'm planning to build myself has a 10 GB SCSI as the OS master drive, with all my docs sitting on RAIDed Baracuda IV's :D

You should be able to boot linux without the floppy though - it's generally there as a last resort if you have to reinstall windows (which, like I said, assumes you're not running any other OS's and overwrites the MBR). I don't know how SuSE handles it, but Mandrake has the option to reinstall Lilo or grub in the event of a windows reinstall.

Linux can read NTFS files fine (it's quite fun to go into Windows in Linux and see just how much they try to hide from you!), it's just the writing that's a problem. But yep, there are no probs as far as FAT32 is concerned, even if it is a bit of a ****ty file format. Make sure your FAT32 drive is split into lots of partitions, else you'll have whopping 40 KB clusters or whatever, and lots of wasted space. Linux handles partitions differently to Windows, so if you have partitions as /home/null/music and /home/hull/porn and /home/null/warez, they will all just show up as different folders in your /home directory, rather than different drives as they do in windows.

As for my fave linux, I don't know really. Mandrake is OK to get a feel for the OS I suppose, but it leaves some areas sadly lacking... I find myself leaning towards redhat, but my friend says he thinks I'm ready for Debian. I've not tried SuSE yet, and user friednliness is one of the things it's noted for, but my friend told me that Mandrake was better to learn on : shrugs :

I think fave distros is just a matter of personal choice. I've met people who still use Corel, and I've met others who won't use anything less than Slackware or (gulp!) Linux from Scratch (a "build your own" distro). Though I think SuSE, Mandrake and, to a lesser extent, RedHat are better for new users looking to experiment.