Mass Effect 3 Ending Discussion

[BreakABone]

Just beat it, I guess ill wait a bit before throwing down my opinion on it. :p

Being as vague as possible.

Do you have a problem with the ending?
Seems to be a lot of backlash against Bioware/EA for that. Even as far as gamers setting up petitions to get Bioware to change it.

[Combine 017]

Being as vague as possible.

Do you have a problem with the ending?
Seems to be a lot of backlash against Bioware/EA for that. Even as far as gamers setting up petitions to get Bioware to change it.

What a shitty ending to one of the greatest stories ive experienced. It leaves so much un-answered and just destroys a lot of the mood the other games built up. It doesnt explain what happens to anyone other than implying what happens to the crew of the Normandy(which I dont even know why they were in that situation in the first place. Seriously, wtf?). I spent all this time uniting a divided galaxy, bringing everyone together to face this threat as one force, but now the galaxy is more separated than ever before, not to mention that a majority of every alien races defence is left in the Sol system. Theres just no happy endings here, and thats really all I wanted to see, even if it was just a cliche ending like "you saved the galaxy, heres some medals and an award ceremony followed by kissing your lover, the end" It was just a really disappointing ending that they could have so very easily made better instead of retarded. Uhg.

[Vampyr]

Being as vague as possible.

Do you have a problem with the ending?
Seems to be a lot of backlash against Bioware/EA for that. Even as far as gamers setting up petitions to get Bioware to change it.

Jesus Christ, what a horrible idea.

"Good ending DLC, only $10!"

[Fox 6]

Well there are 16 endings. Is that not enough?

[Vampyr]

Well there are 16 endings. Is that not enough?

Evidently not. I guess there is some overarching plot line that people don't like, regardless of which ending you choose? Maybe the endings only have subtle differences.

[BreakABone]

Evidently not. I guess there is some overarching plot line that people don't like, regardless of which ending you choose? Maybe the endings only have subtle differences.

From what I gather there are 3 "main" endings with some minor variations.

[Fox 6]

well I know for a fact right off the bat it matters if you saved the collector base in ME2, which splits the endings right up the middle, so it cant be 3 endings.

[Vampyr]

well I know for a fact right off the bat it matters if you saved the collector base in ME2, which splits the endings right up the middle, so it cant be 3 endings.

How do you know it matters? Have you actually played through both endings, or read plot summaries for each one?

Mass Effect has a way with taking choices you made in previous games, seeming to take them into consideration, and then sweeping them under the rug with the same outcome regardless except for one super minor difference, usually a line or two of dialogue.

[Fox 6]

How do you know it matters? Have you actually played through both endings, or read plot summaries for each one?

Mass Effect has a way with taking choices you made in previous games, seeming to take them into consideration, and then sweeping them under the rug with the same outcome regardless except for one super minor difference, usually a line or two of dialogue.

Ive read about it not too long ago.

Basically it matters if you saved the base at all, and your galactic readiness level. 8 Ending for saved the base, 8 for destroyed the base. Each one taking into account your readiness level.

Having not played the 3rd one and not planning to, I think youre making a bit of a conclusion about choice making. A lot of stuff you did over the past 2 games comes into play here.

[Combine 017]

Ive read about it not too long ago.

Basically it matters if you saved the base at all, and your galactic readiness level. 8 Ending for saved the base, 8 for destroyed the base. Each one taking into account your readiness level.

Where the hell did you hear that? I havent seen what its like if you save the collector base though, think ill play through that way next and have Mordin alive so I can hear him sing.

For people who beat the game or dont care:
There are 3 "endings". Really, theres only one ending, no matter what path you choose(good/bad/also good) the outcome is the same. The main difference in the endings is the change of color in the final weapons energy pulse. Uber disappointing.

[Fox 6]

Where the hell did you hear that? I havent seen what its like if you save the collector base though, think ill play through that way next and have Mordin alive so I can hear him sing.

For people who beat the game or dont care:
There are 3 "endings". Really, theres only one ending, no matter what path you choose(good/bad/also good) the outcome is the same. The main difference in the endings is the change of color in the final weapons energy pulse. Uber disappointing.


http://www.ign.com/wikis/mass-effect-3/Endings

[Ginkasa]

I think it depends on how you define "ending." As for the actual final string of cutscenes that lead into the credits... There's only three. And those are pretty darn similar. They end in the same place. If you have enough "Effective Military Strength" and choose the right option you can get an extra little bit right before the credits, but that's it.

If you're referring to everything leading up to "the decision" (which then triggers the "we're coming up on the credits" cutscene), then there are several variations depending on what your EMS is. Again, nothing terribly drastic. It all ends up in the same spot.

Also, there's a small coda at the end of the credits. Supposedly it only appears if you finish ME3 with an import from ME2 or as NG+, but I had an import so I don't know.

[Vampyr]

I think it depends on how you define "ending." As for the actual final string of cutscenes that lead into the credits... There's only three. And those are pretty darn similar. They end in the same place. If you have enough "Effective Military Strength" and choose the right option you can get an extra little bit right before the credits, but that's it.

If you're referring to everything leading up to "the decision" (which then triggers the "we're coming up on the credits" cutscene), then there are several variations depending on what your EMS is. Again, nothing terribly drastic. It all ends up in the same spot.

Also, there's a small coda at the end of the credits. Supposedly it only appears if you finish ME3 with an import from ME2 or as NG+, but I had an import so I don't know.

This is what I suspected, and why I think choice driven games just do not work well in a series.

Dragon Age Origins would have the same issues if they ever try to make a direct sequel to it.

[Professor S]

I need to play this game just so I can see what all the hubub is concerning ME3's ending...

[BreakABone]

This is what I suspected, and why I think choice driven games just do not work well in a series.

Dragon Age Origins would have the same issues if they ever try to make a direct sequel to it.

I think it has possibilities, I recently played Alpha Protocol, and while the end suffers the same fate (multiple endings, but really only 3-4 with some variations)

I think the decisions in that game are handled a lot better in Mass Effect as you see the immediate and long-term effects, and the game tends to be nice enough to point it out to you..

Oh you helped so and so first, he'll be able to assist you on this mission if you choose.

Oh you spared what's his face, his allies will not be a threat to you on this mission and has left a secret cache of weapons for you.

[Vampyr]

I think it has possibilities, I recently played Alpha Protocol, and while the end suffers the same fate (multiple endings, but really only 3-4 with some variations)

I think the decisions in that game are handled a lot better in Mass Effect as you see the immediate and long-term effects, and the game tends to be nice enough to point it out to you..

Oh you helped so and so first, he'll be able to assist you on this mission if you choose.

Oh you spared what's his face, his allies will not be a threat to you on this mission and has left a secret cache of weapons for you.

That's not the point I was making at all, I'm talking about a game series being based on choices. As in having the sequel reflect choices made in the first, and then the third entry reflecting choices made in the first two.

At some point there are too many options for the developers to cover them all in a meaningful way, so the choices you make from game to game get generalized or made irrelevant.

[Typhoid]

I think it has possibilities, I recently played Alpha Protocol, and while the end suffers the same fate (multiple endings, but really only 3-4 with some variations)

I think the decisions in that game are handled a lot better in Mass Effect as you see the immediate and long-term effects, and the game tends to be nice enough to point it out to you..

Oh you helped so and so first, he'll be able to assist you on this mission if you choose.

Oh you spared what's his face, his allies will not be a threat to you on this mission and has left a secret cache of weapons for you.

This needs more attention, even though this is a ME3 thread.
I was the only one jerking this game off over a year ago when I had it.
That is why I liked Alpha Protocol so much. Every single minor detail of what you did effected every other thing that happened. I wore body armour to go talk to a dude one time - I just happened to forget to get into casual clothes. He took it as a threat, and attacked me. The game itself was arcade-y, but the choices, oh Zeus the choices.


I also agree that you guys making a ME3: Ending thread would be a lot better than just talking about it in here. Plus more threads never hurt anyone.

[BreakABone]

This is a thread to discuss the end of Mass Effect. The story and whatever have you, without ruining it for others in the ME 3 thread

[Combine 017]

It sucked.

[BreakABone]

This needs more attention, even though this is a ME3 thread.
I was the only one jerking this game off over a year ago when I had it.
That is why I liked Alpha Protocol so much. Every single minor detail of what you did effected every other thing that happened. I wore body armour to go talk to a dude one time - I just happened to forget to get into casual clothes. He took it as a threat, and attacked me. The game itself was arcade-y, but the choices, oh Zeus the choices.


I also agree that you guys making a ME3: Ending thread would be a lot better than just talking about it in here. Plus more threads never hurt anyone.

There were several other, minor things I wish Mass Effect/Bioware took away from Alpha Protocol.

Choices aren't Good/Evil, Paragon/Renegade.. even when dealing with different people being a too good, could make them hate you while being a jerk earns their respect or even having a 3rd option.

Second.. is timing... I get that you want to give the player a time to think about their response, but always find it odd when characters will just stand and stare at you until you make up your mind. Alpha Protocol.. gives you a tiny window.. you get to see what you want to say and pick it.. and it continues the conversation smoothly. I think you get more natural responses this way as well.

[Combine 017]

Im just going to re-post what I said before about the ending now that I dont have to hide it in spoiler thingers.

What a shitty ending to one of the greatest stories ive experienced. It leaves so much un-answered and just destroys a lot of the mood the other games built up. It doesnt explain what happens to anyone other than implying what happens to the crew of the Normandy(which I dont even know why they were in that situation in the first place. Seriously, wtf?). I spent all this time uniting a divided galaxy, bringing everyone together to face this threat as one force, but now the galaxy is more separated than ever before, not to mention that a majority of every alien races defence is left in the Sol system. Theres just no happy endings here, and thats really all I wanted to see, even if it was just a cliche ending like "you saved the galaxy, heres some medals and an award ceremony followed by kissing your lover, the end" It was just a really disappointing ending that they could have so very easily made better instead of retarded. Uhg.

There were several other, minor things I wish Mass Effect/Bioware took away from Alpha Protocol.

Choices aren't Good/Evil, Paragon/Renegade.. even when dealing with different people being a too good, could make them hate you while being a jerk earns their respect or even having a 3rd option.

Mass Effect does do that, maybe not as much, but you sure as hell couldnt be "nice" to Wrex in ME1. Same with Jack in ME2, being nice to her got you no where.

[Ginkasa]

I don't personally mind the lack of super happy endings. A horde of invincible apocalyptic Cthulhu robots invading from the dark space between galaxies is not going to end well no matter how Paragon your Shepard is. A bittersweet ending is okay. I also don't really see ME3's ending as "dark" as a lot of people are saying. The final image of Joker and EDI standing together to face the dawn of a new synthorganic future seemed pretty optimistic to me. Sure, the galaxy was not the same you one in ME1, but again, Cthulhu robots and all... Bound to happen.

If you can't tell, I also didn't really mind the details of the ending either. Blending organics and synthetics together (which is the ending I chose) seemed to make some sense on a thematic level and fit fairly well with the rest of the series. I don't know about anyone else, but my Shepard would totally choose that option (I saved the Geth and the Quarians and might have even chosen the Geth over the Quarians if forced... maybe). I didn't mind the choices or that they were there.

I don't even mind the lack of a "and here's a list of how your choices mattered in the years to come" epilogue like in DA:O. I felt my choices flavored the story at least (even if it may not have drastically changed it as some had hoped for) which is enough for me.

My issue is that the star child thing and choices itself came out of no where and felt really surreal. The series was based on a more or less realistic feeling universe. Everything in the series pointed to a more or less conventional "robots go boom" type ending. To have the origin of the Reapers suddenly thrust on us with barely any explanation and a lot of extrapolation and asking us to make some choice with forces that don't make much sense just really flies in the face of the rest of the series. The tone of it just doesn't fit with the tone of everything else. It borders on mystical which the rest of the series was not. If the game had ended with Anderson and Shepard talking (and probably dying) and the reapers blowing up with everything else mostly the same (Mass Relays 'splodin' and all) I'd have probably been more satisfied.

End coda, however, I'm not nearly as unhappy about the ending as a lot of people are. I was a little disappointed, but I'm actually already planning a full trilogy run through soon (with a FemShep!), so it clearly doesn't bother me that much.

[Combine 017]

I don't personally mind the lack of super happy endings. A horde of invincible apocalyptic Cthulhu robots invading from the dark space between galaxies is not going to end well no matter how Paragon your Shepard is. A bittersweet ending is okay.
I wouldnt have minded a bittersweet ending either, but there was no sweetness to it at all. It left so much unanswered.
I also don't really see ME3's ending as "dark" as a lot of people are saying. The final image of Joker and EDI standing together to face the dawn of a new synthorganic future seemed pretty optimistic to me. Sure, the galaxy was not the same you one in ME1, but again, Cthulhu robots and all... Bound to happen.
Ya I didnt find the ending dark, maybe those people got the ending where Earth is destroyed? But speaking of Joker and the Normandy, why was it in a Mass Relay jump in the first place? Wasnt it around Earth? And what about everyone else? What happened to Admiral Hackett, or all your other squad mates who should have been on Earth, or the Synth reapers, did they just chill around Earth now?
If you can't tell, I also didn't really mind the details of the ending either. Blending organics and synthetics together (which is the ending I chose) seemed to make some sense on a thematic level and fit fairly well with the rest of the series. I don't know about anyone else, but my Shepard would totally choose that option (I saved the Geth and the Quarians and might have even chosen the Geth over the Quarians if forced... maybe). I didn't mind the choices or that they were there.
Ya, I would have chosen the Geth over the Quarians, I was so sad when Legion sacrificed himself. I think the synthorganic option was the best one.

And one more thing about the crew of the Normandy on that uncharted planet. The human portion of the crew wasnt that big, not big enough to support a new colony of humans without inbreeding, so assuming Liara made it there, does that mean everyone on that planet would eventually be Asari?

[Ginkasa]

I wouldnt have minded a bittersweet ending either, but there was no sweetness to it at all. It left so much unanswered.

Ya I didnt find the ending dark, maybe those people got the ending where Earth is destroyed? But speaking of Joker and the Normandy, why was it in a Mass Relay jump in the first place? Wasnt it around Earth? And what about everyone else? What happened to Admiral Hackett, or all your other squad mates who should have been on Earth, or the Synth reapers, did they just chill around Earth now?

Ya, I would have chosen the Geth over the Quarians, I was so sad when Legion sacrificed himself. I think the synthorganic option was the best one.

And one more thing about the crew of the Normandy on that uncharted planet. The human portion of the crew wasnt that big, not big enough to support a new colony of humans without inbreeding, so assuming Liara made it there, does that mean everyone on that planet would eventually be Asari?



Wizard did it.

[Combine 017]

Wizard did it.

Hahaha, alright, that explains everything. :p

Perhaps it was a space wizard, or some sort of magic fight wizard...

[Bond]

http://penny-arcade.smugmug.com/photos/i-dfFJj7N/0/L/i-dfFJj7N-X2.jpg

[Combine 017]

The final choice consists of 3 options that don't take into account your paragon/renegade score. Despite the choices, every ending consists of galaxy wide mass relay explosions and Joker is suddenly away from the battle and crash lands on some unknown planet. Also plot holes such as how was it possible that the squad mates you chose to go into the final mission ended up on the stranded Normandy in the end makes things confusing. Furthermore, the inevitable destruction of the Mass Relays renders all of the decisions that the player has made throughout the series, and has become invested in, inconsequential. i.e., whether the Quarians retake their homeworld or not, it doesn't matter, because no one will be able to travel out of Earth's solar system back to their homeworlds again without the use of the Mass Relays.

Looks like there are oodles of people mad about this as well. Im not alone!

[BreakABone]

Looks like there are oodles of people mad about this as well. Im not alone!

Some may have gone a BIT overboard with their dislike of it though

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10065503/1

[Bond]

Wow. That guy has way too much time on his hands.

I haven't seen the promotional material he is referring to, but it would most likely slide into the definition of "puffery" ... so that will go nowhere.

[DarkMaster]

Unsatisfying. The little scene after the credits was nice, dealing with the legend of Shepard. The normandy landing on some random planet was confusing and way too ideal/unrealistic. Also why did Liara get off the normandy when she was with me and Garrus down on earth fighting the reapers? And losing the relays makes everything moot.

[Ginkasa]

Geez, did everyone pick Liara and Garrus? There's even a Final Hours app out for ME3 (similar to the Portal 2 one) and it also describes a cut sequence where the squad members you picked would actually be visibly vaporized and they, too, used Liara and Garrus as an example.

(BTW, I also used Liara and Garrus. When I got hit by Harbinger I was all like, "Oh no, that must mean Liara and Garrus are dead!" and was expecting clarification later, but all I got was Liara walking off the Normandy and I was like, "Wha...?")

[Combine 017]

I also used Liara and Garrus. :p

[Swan]

I used EDI and Jarvik or whatever the Protheans name was. And that ending...happenend?

[Angrist]

What's this Portal 2 app? There aren't multiple endings to P2, are there?

[Ginkasa]

What's this Portal 2 app? There aren't multiple endings to P2, are there?


The Final Hours of Portal 2 (http://www.thefinalhoursofportal2.com/)


The "final hours" refers to the development cycle, not the end of the game. Its the same thing, actually with ME3, but a lot of people are focusing on the section of the app that talks about the ending of the game.

[Combine 017]

What's this Portal 2 app? There aren't multiple endings to P2, are there?

WTF?

This is about ME3, not P2. H3.2 HL2-3 GF3 SC2 GTA5 Af2 CHLL8 9H2FG BDSM2.

[Swan]

http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/monday-motivation-9.jpg?w=500&h=449

[Bond]

Terrific burn minus the improper use of "then."

[DarkMaster]

this video gave me new perspective on the ending. worth checking out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ythY_GkEBck

[Combine 017]

this video gave me new perspective on the ending. worth checking out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ythY_GkEBck

If Biowares accepts this as what actually happened, then I will take back my hatred towards the ending, and have new hatred for them making an unfinished game.

[Bond]

this video gave me new perspective on the ending. worth checking out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ythY_GkEBck
That looks scarily plausible, although perhaps a bit too convoluted to be true?

[BreakABone]

Seems like Bioware may give into fans' demands

http://blog.bioware.com/2012/03/21/4108/

[Bond]

Adam and I think it would be great if the new ending was released with, "Mass Effect 3: Enhanced Edition." The game would include the new ending and Prothean character all for $60.

The new Reaper character would be $10.

[Swan]

They just need to add this video to the end and I will be happy

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/vG4EyfXOTJ4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Typhoid]

So who here actually enjoys the endings they've gotten?

To clarify I haven't played but it just seems like nobody is happy with how the game ended, and everyone felt like they were watching Star Wars Episode I again. "What the fuck is this shit. I want my money back. This isn't as good as I had hoped. What the fuck. you ruined your own franchise!"

[Combine 017]

The game itself was great, just the last 10-15 minutes of it went to shit real fast. I really like that indoctrination theory and that it was Shepard fighting against his own mind, but if thats true, why didnt they finish the game? Either way, they screwed up, but I still really enjoyed the game as a whole and look forward to some more DLC.

[Fox 6]

Just beat this thing. I am disappointed. I know I have defended this game bu to be fair everything but that last 10-15 minutes was the greatest gaming experience I've ever had. I really enjoy the ME universe and to see it get such a awful ending really sucks. I want closure dammit! What happens next? My Shepard is still alive because I gathered more than half of total galactic readiness, so I know there is more to tell. What happens to all of your companions that I have invested so much learning about and talking to and helping?

I dont get why it boiled down to how synthetic life will always rise up and become violent, so they need these cycles to keep things in check?

The let down comes from working so hard and then having such little closure and more "WTFs?" with the little boy AI and how Liara and Javvik ended up on the Normandy, and why was it in the middle of a jump!?!

And I chose to destroy the reapers, why the hell does that mean I have to kill the Geth too?!?!?

The scene after the credits was a nice touch.

Maybe I'm just sad that its all over? No more mass effect?! :(

Also, if your Shepard dies because you dont want to bother with gathering all the resources, how do you play the inevitable DLC? or will it just be for the co-op?

[Ginkasa]

If you load up your save again you'll notice it just prior to the Cerberus base mission (which was the point of no return) despite where ever your last save really was. This is to, basically, allow everyone to play DLC without having to start a new game. They will all take place prior to the battle for Earth.

[Combine 017]

Also, if your Shepard dies because you dont want to bother with gathering all the resources, how do you play the inevitable DLC? or will it just be for the co-op?

Youre galactic readiness has nothing to do with Shepard living or dying. He lives if you destroy the Reapers, but dies if you choose the other options, no matter how many resources youve acquired. You should watch that indoctrination theory video, its pretty well done and explains what they think the last 10-15 mins were all about.

[Dylflon]

I ended up going the synthesis route since control was obviously going to be a fail choice and I didn't feel destroying all synthetic life was the answer either (would feel guilty killing EDI).

But yeah...I was expecting to defend the ending after beating this game but I don't really feel like I understand the effects of my final choice...

So um...yeah I dunno.

[Typhoid]

I want closure dammit! What happens next?


Wait for the plethora of DLC that will never stop being released. ;)


I dont get why it boiled down to how synthetic life will always rise up and become violent, so they need these cycles to keep things in check?

What do you mean "you dont get it" - you literally don't comprehend the concept of it - or you don't understand why they chose that as the theme of the Universe? :p

Anecdotal assumption alert:

The AI/Organic thing has been addressed as at least a minor theme in the other games - look at the Quarians, they created the Geth to help - the Geth rebelled after gaining thought, and there you go - Mass Effect 1. Mass Effect 2 explored the fact the Geth might be synthetic but they're still "life", but not before a corporation tries bringing Shep back from the dead and making him a living-robot so he can start flying around the Universe with his living AI-ship, dealing with the fact there is an engineered species stealing people to make a giant robotic human simply because they feel superior to all other species and don't trust any of them with their own survival. Which makes "sense", considering you're controlling a human-robot who is flying in a living ship with a sentient robot on his team.
The alien species 'controlling the cycles' maybe views synthetic life as an abomination to real life, being that it is superior and a seemingly neverending threat to organic life because given enough time it will most likely decimate the species that created it if no outside help is thrown in.

It just seems to me that Mass Effect is "about" the combination of living creatures and computers [In the same way that Deus Ex is, but on a larger and more warped scale] - and the problems associated with it - they just fast forwarded thousands of years beyond the "Hey, we made a computer that can play Chess, and we can put a barcode in your arm" part.


I still do want to play the game and experience this horrible unsatisfying ending for myself to see how magnificently let down I'll be. I have yet to see a person anywhere online say "Yeah, I'm satisfied with this so far." - That just makes me want to play it so much more.

[Dylflon]

I slept on it. Maybe I'm okay with the ending. I feel satisfied with the sacrifice I have to make since breaking a cycle is a pretty big thing to do.

I think people aren't really used to melancholy endings. But I guess it's fair to not know who lived or too much about what happens because it's Shepard's story, and my Shepard died.

I'm wondering if my squad for the last mission got vaporized. I took Garrus and Liara like everyone else so I assumed they're pretty dead. But then Liara walks off the Normandy and I'm like..."how'd she get on there"?

Anyways, everyone in this story was alive at a very doomed point of history so to give the future a chance is not too bad an ending.

And since the mass relays are gone, I'm curious what would happen with all the fleets stuck in the Sol system.

[Combine 017]

For those who are curios or like me, will never be able to see the bad endings, heres a vid of every ending side by side.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/rPelM2hwhJA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[BreakABone]

I slept on it. Maybe I'm okay with the ending. I feel satisfied with the sacrifice I have to make since breaking a cycle is a pretty big thing to do.

I think people aren't really used to melancholy endings. But I guess it's fair to not know who lived or too much about what happens because it's Shepard's story, and my Shepard died.

I'm wondering if my squad for the last mission got vaporized. I took Garrus and Liara like everyone else so I assumed they're pretty dead. But then Liara walks off the Normandy and I'm like..."how'd she get on there"?

Anyways, everyone in this story was alive at a very doomed point of history so to give the future a chance is not too bad an ending.

And since the mass relays are gone, I'm curious what would happen with all the fleets stuck in the Sol system.
Reminds me of this comic

http://i.imgur.com/ZrHPY.jpg

[Fox 6]

Wait for the plethora of DLC that will never stop being released. ;)




What do you mean "you dont get it" - you literally don't comprehend the concept of it - or you don't understand why they chose that as the theme of the Universe? :p

Anecdotal assumption alert:

The AI/Organic thing has been addressed as at least a minor theme in the other games - look at the Quarians, they created the Geth to help - the Geth rebelled after gaining thought, and there you go - Mass Effect 1.

Wrong about that. In ME3 you get the chance to see stored Geth memories and its the Quarians that start the war with the Geth. There are several memories but there are key ones where the Quarians are trying to shut a geth down (kill it) and the geth is just asking what it did wrong and how it wasn't broken, trying to figure out why they wanted to kill it. Further more it shows the Quarians murdering other quarians that sympathise with the Geth, and how the Geth remembered those organics that try to help and are grateful. The Geth only fight back after their creators literally start gunning down large packs of defenless units. This shows that the Geth (when not controlled by the Reapers) are not interested in rebelling. They were just defending themselves as any organic would too.

Mass Effect 2 explored the fact the Geth might be synthetic but they're still "life", but not before a corporation tries bringing Shep back from the dead and making him a living-robot so he can start flying around the Universe with his living AI-ship, dealing with the fact there is an engineered species stealing people to make a giant robotic human simply because they feel superior to all other species and don't trust any of them with their own survival. Which makes "sense", considering you're controlling a human-robot who is flying in a living ship with a sentient robot on his team.

1. Cerberus is not an evil corporation, they are just a group. Corporations main concerns are profits, cerberus' main concern is the advancement of the human race. They have shell corporatons set up to provide funding for them.

2. The illusive man never says he doesnt trust the other specials with helping in survival. He even openly supports getting the councils help when you ask him if you should try, and theres also the fact that a large portion of your team are aliens and how he is the one to suggest them and says they are the best, etc. He brings you back becuase no body else is doing anything about it. Sure he believes that humans deserve a better spot in the galaxy, but he trusts anyone that can help to fight the collectors, aliens included.

The alien species 'controlling the cycles' maybe views synthetic life as an abomination to real life, being that it is superior and a seemingly neverending threat to organic life because given enough time it will most likely decimate the species that created it if no outside help is thrown in.

That is debatable. Infact, the Quarians launch a war to retake their homeworld and are on the brink of victory when the reapers interfere and enhance the Geth. This results in the Quarians getting their butt whooped. So without the reapers, and or the higher alien species' intervention, the Quarians would have probably won the war.

Most of the reaper interaction is with organics, harvesting to build new reapers, indoctronation (which is a huuuuge part of Mass Effect), husks, etc. It seems that it came out of left field that all of this, in the grand scheme of things, is to prevent synthetics from rising up.

All I am saying is that it was a weird explanation for the Reapers and the cycles. It would have made more sense if they hadn't tryed to explain the reapers origins, and the whole cycle was just the reapers procuring the future of their species, ensuring their survival. Hell, I would've even bought that the reapers were created by the higher alien species so that they can ensure organic life continues, (ie: advanced space faring races would eventually use all resources and move on until there was nothing left.) by killing them all and resetting the cycle.

[Bond]

For those who are curios or like me, will never be able to see the bad endings, heres a vid of every ending side by side.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/rPelM2hwhJA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Look, just because the designers didn't branch out into secondary colors doesn't mean the endings weren't vastly different.

On a serious note, I had no idea the endings were that similar. That is kind of ridiculous.

[Dylflon]

Now that I've read the indoctrination theory, it's very interesting to think that what plays out in the citadel is just a mind fuck to get Shepard to think on a different paradigm that helps the Reapers (like what happened with the Illusive man).

Are the reapers mind readers? That's the only way they'd know to make the little AI hologram that child. It makes more sense if it's taking place in Shepard's head since that kid is something she's been grappling with the whole game, he's always very much in her mind.

If this is the case, then my selection of synthesis could be playing into the reaper's hand now that I'm trying to compromise rather than stop them. Could that AI have been fucking with me and lying outright. Some of the things he said are out of line with the things the Reapers have said throughout the game.

The idea that this cycle preserves life could be the lie that helps fuck with Shepard's head enough to not destroy the Reapers while the Reapers could be acting in self interest to ensure that no being would ever advance enough to be on par with the Reapers.

Plus there's a lot of weird stuff that happened like Shepard's gun going off at Anderson, but Anderson not being wounded. Then later in the exchange Shepard is bleeding from the spot where it seems she shot Anderson.

The only thing I regret now is taking the two people I cared about most on the last mission since it seems they got vaporized.

I wonder how the rest of the people made out in the battle...


The more I think about it, the more I like how the game ended. It will be interesting to see what happens now that Bioware is adding to it.


The only thing I see as a failure is the fact that the final battle didn't involve many hard choices. I would have liked something akin to the last mission in ME2 wherein you have to organize squads to help you get to the beam. The last moments would have been a lot better if the game forced to make hard choices and sacrifice some of your friends for the sake of the mission. It doesn't seem as though that would have been too hard to do and I think a mission of this caliber would have limited a lot of people's disappointment with the end of the game.


Edit:

The biggest success of this game is that it's gotten all of us thinking about it a lot after finishing it. What other game can boast that?

[Dylflon]

Last stage of dealing with end of Mass Effect:

Played through ending again. Indoctrination theory is everyone just grasping at straws.

The ending was the ending. It wasn't the worst thing ever. Get over it, crybabies.

[Typhoid]

It would have made more sense if they hadn't tryed to explain the reapers origins, and the whole cycle was just the reapers procuring the future of their species, ensuring their survival.

I like the concept that they're doing it is because they're so technologically advanced that they feel so complexly superior to every living thing, and have a massive God complex. I think that sounds a lot cooler than them simply trying to survive. :lol:


Wrong about that. In ME3 you get the chance to see stored Geth memories and its the Quarians that start the war with the Geth. There are several memories but there are key ones where the Quarians are trying to shut a geth down (kill it) and the geth is just asking what it did wrong and how it wasn't broken, trying to figure out why they wanted to kill it.

They talk about that in ME2 too, if you talk enough with Legion. He plays the recordings for you.
So then after the Quarians tried to shut off (kill) that geth, the geth contemplated why they creators (Gods) were attempting to destroy them and rebelled, right? ;)

Just because I said the Geth rebelled doesn't mean I meant they were the first to start the war - but they were still the synthetic ones to rise up and rebel against the organic creators.

1. Cerberus is not an evil corporation

I never said they were evil. I just said they were a corporation. ;)


Anyways, all I was trying to say with my post before was my opinion on the theme of the series - that the whole Synthetic Life/Organic life and the struggles between them and combination of them seems to be at least a minor theme in the whole series - to me. Almost everything in that game is the cause, problem of, or the solution is some type of genetic engineering, and the struggles of choices between combining organic life with synthetic life, or altering organic life to become 'better'.

It seems to be about "At what point is too much". Look at the Illusive Man. He wants to secure the human race at the top of the Universal ladder- at what cost though - synthesizing people to make them stronger and better, essentially making them less organic, less 'natural'. Then there's the Solarians and the Genophage, and the fact the Krogan were genetically engineered in the first place, and then decimated afterwards with some genetic altering. And especially the shit the Reapers are pulling, and have previously pulled.

AI in the series was originally presented as evil with the Geth, but then slowly towards the 3rd game (to my understanding from playing to the second and from what I've heard about the 3rd) they try to make you understand that just because their life isn't organic, it's still life [Even through the course of 2, with EDI - she starts off with a sketchy sort of vibe to the character, but by the end of the game she has become very 'human' in her interactions, cracking jokes, getting to know the crew, and possibly even 'becomes' the ship - turning her into an actual physical object rather than simply data]- so is it morally okay to destroy them - when is it morally okay to stop genetic engineering, when is it okay to do it etc. Maybe it's just me who sees it that way, I'm not too sure.


The biggest success of this game is that it's gotten all of us thinking about it a lot after finishing it. What other game can boast that?

Even if that's not what they were going for at all, I definitely agree.

Hey Dylan, after you decide to be through with this abomination of semen-filled excrement [No rush] I call dibs - because I don't really want to drop 70 bucks on a game everyone has been shit talking for weeks - it's not a very good selling point. :lol:


*shrugs and walks away*

[Combine 017]

Hey Dylan, after you decide to be through with this abomination of semen-filled excrement [No rush] I call dibs - because I don't really want to drop 70 bucks on a game everyone has been shit talking for weeks - it's not a very good selling point. :lol:


*shrugs and walks away*

What the hell is wrong with you, you cant just say that without even knowing the facts, gawd, its only 60 bucks!

[Fox 6]

despite all this ending fiasco, I still think think this is one of the best games I've ever played, and my favourite game series by far. Love the ME universe.

[Dylflon]

Yep, it was good times for sure.

Even though if it's true that your final party gets vaporized, then I had to watch every single one of my favourite characters die. But it's cool, I will accept Mordin and Legion's deaths as they were in the service of satisfying story telling.

[Bond]

Yep, it was good times for sure.

Even though if it's true that your final party gets vaporized, then I had to watch every single one of my favourite characters die. But it's cool, I will accept Mordin and Legion's deaths as they were in the service of satisfying story telling.
***Spoiler below warning (even though this is a spoiler thread).***



Apparently Mordin can live. Cam found a few YouTube videos that show some real bizarre Renegade options.

[Fox 6]

***Spoiler below warning (even though this is a spoiler thread).***



Apparently Mordin can live. Cam found a few YouTube videos that show some real bizarre Renegade options.

In a very specific situation though. Wreav not Wrex has to be the Krogan leader and Eve has to die before you get her to the Shrowd. You basically convince Mordin that Wreav will be a terrible leader (Wrex is dead) and nobody will be abel to convince him to behave properly (Eve is dead). You basically renegade option him into lying and faking his own death to help convince the krogan you have cured the genophage, and he goes to work on the Crucible.

There is actually an almost hour long video on YouTube, that shows the deaths of a lot of supporitng characters.

There are many crazy options I found, a lot of them unpleasant.

The most disturbing thing I found was basically murdering Mordin in cold blood to stop him from curing the genophage. You shoot him in the back as he goes up the elevator and he struggles to get to the console bleeding and mumbling, dying just before he gets there and all the while a very sad musical score is playing. You'd have to be a terrible monster to openly kill Mordin.

Another thing that I found very sad was the Miranda death scene if you are romancing her.

Other notable options included:

gunning down Wrex if he finds out you tricked him about the genopahge.

Mudering legion, if you let the Quarians destroy the Geth fleet. OR Tali watching her fleet get destroyed by the Geth and then killing herself by jumping off a cliff.

Shooting Ashley/Kaiden on the citadel when they protect Udina.

Not going to Grissom Academy in time only to have cerberus upduct everyone, then later hearing audio logs of cerberus torturing and indoctronating Jack, then having to fight and kill her.

There is probably more, but those are the ones that really stuck. A lot of them are direct actions of renegade choices (Mordin, Wrex, etc), or not having enough reputaiton to choose either a paragon or renegade option (Quarians or Geth, Miranda).

[Bond]

Not going to Grissom Academy in time only to have cerberus upduct everyone, then later hearing audio logs of cerberus torturing and indoctronating Jack, then having to fight and kill her.
Oops ...

[Combine 017]

If you gave Legion to Cerberus in ME2, you end up fighting him somewhere in ME3.
And if you chose Morinth over Samara in ME2 (like anyone did that) she comes back as a Banshee near the end of the game.
Also your Space Hamster from ME2 is running around in the engine room where Jack used to be, go catch it!

Just read this on IGN which I found kind of funny. Its in the description of a planet from ME1.
Klencory is famously claimed by the eccentric volus billionaire Kumun Shol. He claims that a vision of a higher being told him to seek on Klencory the "lost crypts of beings of light." These entities were supposedly created at the dawn of time to protect organic life from synthetic "machine devils." Shol has been excavating on Klencory's toxic surface for two decades, at great expense. No government has valued the world enough to evict his small army of mercenaries.
And a description from the same planet in ME3.
Klencory is famously claimed by the eccentric volus billionaire Kumun Shol. His once-ridiculed visions of "beings of light" protecting organic life from synthetic "machine devils" don't seem quite so far-fetched now. His private army of mercenaries are well-established on the planet, waiting for husks to come knocking in on their door. In all likelihood, they will be obliterated by the molten metal of a Reaper orbital bombardment, on its way to somewhere important.

[Fox 6]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/r6e9nokg1NQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Typhoid]

I literally just finished the game and wanted to post on it while it's still fresh - and I put spoilers on nothing.

I just wanted to put my thoughts on the indoctrination theory. So I've never watched any of the videos - these are solely my thoughts on how I perceive that possibility. I don't think that's what it is, for the record - I'm just open the idea of the concept.

So the kid at the beginning is the same as the kid posing as the Catalyst, who is also the same kid in Shep's dreams who burns. Leading me to the possibility the kid at the beginning who blew up, and who is running away from you in all of your dreams and being set on fire - was not a real kid to begin with, and was an implanted image in order to break Shep's will, or resolve, or something. I mean, that kid is a super bummer. He's so negative and all he does is tell you that you can't help him, blow up, get set on fire, until the very end when he's trying to essentially get you to side with synthetics.

At the end the kid/Catalyst keeps saying things about how he controls the Reapers, and was controlling the Illusive Man, who was controlling Shep [essentially meaning The Catalyst-kid was controlling Shepard]. But then suddenly in that conversation when it starts really pushing for synthesis or control, the Catalyst starts referring to itself and the Reapers as one-in-the same, as "us", and the voice gets a little more barotone - a little more Harbinger-y (Harbinger is said to be on the way to Earth towards the end of the battles) Maybe simply because he [The catalyst] is now including himself in the group of life who will be destroyed, or maybe the kid is an implanted Reaper image by and it brings Shep to the core at the end out of Reaper-arrogance, giving him 2 options to prolong the cycle, and 1 to obliterate it. Maybe it's just cocky. That way players get to make the final option, and [possibly] get to overcome Reaper arrogance with Human resolve and good-will (if you choose that option, that is) Like I said, I'm not pushing for the Indoctrination Theory, and I don't essentially believe in it. I'm taking the ending at face-value until proven otherwise by the people who wrote the game. I just think it's 'fun' to speculate otherwise.


Or maybe the catalyst is simply trying to get you to side with synthetics because it fears it's own demise, and is only trying to preserve itself, too - and in the end it's all just about the will to survive. Whaaaaat.


Really though, the end of the game was pretty epic. I enjoyed the entire thing, it was so many shades of epic. I want them to make fourteen more Mass Effects.

The ending of the game, on Earth was so badass. Defending fake alien planets from giant robotic versions of small cuttlefish is one thing, but I got into the battles so much more just because everything seemed familiar (in comparison to the other planets).

And I didn't mind the part after the credits, either. Essentially saying it's a story. I noticed there was some pretty hard emphasis when Buzz Aldron says he'll "Tell him another story" about "The Shepard". (Because Shepards 'lead sheep', and 'the sheep' would be the populace of the galaxy. Whaaaat.)


I don't really believe half of what I said. I just like to speculate from all possible angles for absolutely no reason.

I plan on giving this game another go on the hardest difficulty. I figure I won't be able to get the game to Dylan before the weekend, and there are...like 72 hours until then. I completed the game in about 24 hours, so I figure I'm good to go.

[Combine 017]

(Harbinger is said to be on the way to Earth towards the end of the battles)

Harbinger is the one who shot you during the sprint to the beam.

[Typhoid]

Harbinger is the one who shot you during the sprint to the beam.

I must have looked beyond that in my giant bursts of "What the-- Jesus, fuck".

Really though, I didn't mean to make it sound like I have anything against the game or anything. I've already started a new game on insanity. It is indeed insane.

[Fox 6]

Nothing has felt more epic in a video game than sprinting down that hill to the beacon, so I can save the galaxy, praying to god I didn't get hit by that beam.

[BreakABone]

And the solution is...

Bioware will be releasing an extended cut DLC to expand on the ending of the game for free this summer

http://investor.ea.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=662095

[Combine 017]

And the solution is...

Bioware will be releasing an extended cut DLC to expand on the ending of the game for free this summer

http://investor.ea.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=662095

Haha, power to the people I guess. :p
I see this as a win for gamers. Taking a stand against the big corporation.

[Ginkasa]

And... The official Bioware forums are still a cesspool of hate and unhappiness. Of course.

[BreakABone]

Haha, power to the people I guess. :p
I see this as a win for gamers. Taking a stand against the big corporation.

And that to me is the real win here. Gamers take back just a little bit of the power they've slowly been losing this generation.

[Bond]

And... The official Bioware forums are still a cesspool of hate and unhappiness. Of course.
Haha, yeah. People will complain about anything / everything. Most just have too much free time. Especially the guy who filed a complaint against the Better Business Bureau.

[Swan]

I am curious to see what the extended ending will be but you all realize that because this happened, the amount of nerds bitching about things will shoot through the roof

[Bond]

New free stuff: http://ps3.ign.com/articles/122/1222511p1.html

[Combine 017]

Krogan Battlemaster Vanguard

me gusta...

[Bond]

Don't forget the Geth engineer. Long live Legion!

[Typhoid]

This will become a very, very slippery slope.
Jesus Christ, what have they done...

[Combine 017]

This will become a very, very slippery slope.
Jesus Christ, what have they done...

Ya, next we will make Valve make the next Half-Life.
Then we will petition Halo to show the Chiefs face.
And after that, make every game have the same style of multiplayer as call of duty.
Ahahahahahaaa!

[BreakABone]

This will become a very, very slippery slope.
Jesus Christ, what have they done...

I don't think its a slippery slope.. I mean no one.. complains about them changing the ending of Fallout 3... or have we seen petitions on this level before...

And don't think there has been a franchise.. as ambitious as ME .

[Combine 017]

I don't think its a slippery slope.. I mean no one.. complains about them changing the ending of Fallout 3... or have we seen petitions on this level before...

And don't think there has been a franchise.. as ambitious as ME .

They changed the ending of Fallout 3? I thought they just added to it with dlc.

[Ginkasa]

They changed the ending of Fallout 3? I thought they just added to it with dlc.


Originally your character died at the end of the game which meant you couldn't explore the Wasteland or complete any additional missions afterward. It could also be a bit of a plot hole. Your character died of radiation poisoning because you had to walk into some radiation to do something (I forget). You would be forced to do this even if you had a Super Mutant companion who could totally do the thing handle the radiation without dying standing right next to you.

Eventually it was changed so you miraculously survived or something (its possible you could also choose to have that Super Mutant companion do it; I can't remember). This change was tacked on to a piece of DLC that also added a bunch of stuff, so...

[Swan]

The Better Business Bureau has gotten involved....or at least just talked about it

http://www.gamespot.com/news/mass-effect-3-falsely-advertised-says-bbb-6371157

[Typhoid]

Rant rant rant.
Bitch please.
This makes me want to contact the BBB on all of those shitty movies I saw that advertised as "The best movie of the year/summer/spring/winter/fall/action movie/comedy/buddy cop movie". Or all of those crossword/Sudoku books that advertise "hours of entertainment", first of all - it didn't take me hours, secondly I would hardly call it entertainment.

first line she examined was a promise that Mass Effect 3 players will be able to "experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience and outcome."


uhhh...so I guess they're completely invalidating the first two games as part of "the beginning, middle, and end" of a story, and are simply referring to Mass Effect 3 as all of those - as if you hadn't previously played two games of choices prior to this, which do indeed change this game. Do they drastically alter the game? No. But you definitely get to experience a different outcome every time, so long as you play it differently each time.
Because last time I checked, they said you could "EXPERIENCE the beginning, middle, and end of a story in ME3" not "ALTER the beginning middle, and end of a story in ME3".
I don't know about you, or the cunts complaining to the BBB about it - but when I played this game I sure as shit saw my first 2 games' of choices unfold. Promise 100% met.

Of the line, Stephens says BioWare did not deliver players the ability to fully craft their own unique experience. "There is no indecision in that statement. It is an absolute," she said.

Bitch, please.
Mass Effect 3 is not a standalone game, or story. Just as the context of only seeing Star Wars Episode 5 has no merit without seeing any other fucking movie.
And how do you expect millions of different people to all have a 'unique experience' when playing the same game? Riddle me that, you fucking anal-reamer. If anything the fact that people were not satisfied at the end of the game is a unique experience for these people, because not everything ended how they expected, nor wanted.


All of the sand that everyone [seriously taking action towards something] has been pounding over this game is seriously pissing me off - because they're succeeding at complaining enough to change a game. The consumer/viewer is telling the artist that the art is wrong. Does that only seem retarded to me?


This is just so fucking childish.
It pisses me off that young people these days just complain and complain until they get their way. Screw someone elses work, screw art. Let's find some other cunts online who hate something as much as I do, and bitch and moan about it until we can slowly pick apart and demolish the way the video gaming industry works.

[Ginkasa]

It pisses me off that young people these days just complain and complain until they get their way.



I think this means we're getting old :lol:

But seriously, I agree. Its not so much that I think they're wrong in regards to the game didn't meet the expectations or the hype. I just don't think it deserves near as much attention or energy as its been given. The fact there is/was a "movement" regarding the ending of a video game is just ridiculous.

[Bond]

That blog from the BBB is clearly maintained for the sole purpose of generating positive PR for that organization.

The marketing jargon that was used by Bioware to promote ME3, and similar wording that Typhoid cited, is all puffery as defined by the FTC ("term frequently used to denote the exaggerations reasonably to be expected of a seller as to the degree of quality of his product, the truth or falsity of which cannot be precisely determined").

This is ridiculous.

[Angrist]

I don't know where I stand on the topic.

On one hand: yeah it's pretty weird that a game developer has to change his game because the fans didn't like it.

On the other hand: a) It apparently works, the developer has to think about his image, and b) the fans know the developer is capable of doing much better and they suggest they use their potential.

Instead of comparing it to art, compare it to a car that you drive and you know a way to improve it. Or a comic you read and you have a great idea for a volume.

Or what about all those directors that come up with multiple endings to their movies? Think of The Butterfly Effect. There's the "director's cut" ending which not too many appreciated. Then there's the alternative one which the director made the standard ending in European cinemas: people felt better about that ending and the director gave in. It's good business for him.
The director's cut can still be found for people who prefer it.

[Typhoid]

Instead of comparing it to art, compare it to a car that you drive and you know a way to improve it. Or a comic you read and you have a great idea for a volume.

A car is not a story that is worked on by people who are proud of what they have accomplished, and want to share their idea of an amazing science-fiction Universe with everyone.
I'm not comparing the game to art. it is art.


But okay, let's put you in that comic-book writers' shoes.


Say you write a comic. You're - let's say 4 years into it's creation. Suddenly on the last few comics you start getting fan complaints that they didn't like what you were making. So you think "Oh, that's a shame that they didn't like what I created, and have poured time into."

But now imagine that those loyal fans that you had who love and read your comic attempt to take legal action on you so you legally have to alter your own creation.

I think this means we're getting old

Fuck, tell me about it.
I catch myself legitimately saying "Kids these days", and "damn kids". Yesterday I told kids to get off my lawn. I was not joking.

[Angrist]

What about the movie comparison?

[Typhoid]

Or what about all those directors that come up with multiple endings to their movies? Think of The Butterfly Effect. There's the "director's cut" ending which not too many appreciated. Then there's the alternative one which the director made the standard ending in European cinemas: people felt better about that ending and the director gave in. It's good business for him.
The director's cut can still be found for people who prefer it.


I see what you're getting at.

Mass Effect is built with those multiple endings in the game. All of those alternate deleted scenes that you're talking about are part of Mass Effect already. Just like they are part of the Butterfly Effect. The Butterfly Effect has a static story. 1 path, 1 movie, 1 ending. Mass Effect has many paths spread over 3 games, and variations of 3 endings.

The director of Butterfly effect giving in on his own is different than if he legally had to do it, and wasn't planning on changing his creation. How many writers/directors have changed the ending of their movie post-release because of bad feedback (in modern times)? I assume it's probably just The Butterfly Effect and less than a dozen others.. There are exceptions to everything, though.



The creators of Mass Effect shouldn't have to change anything in their game for a few reasons:

1: They made it. It's their choice. Not the consumer. The creator. This isn't the food industry.

2: The alternate routes are part of the game. Don't view 'Mass Effect' as 3 individual games. View it as 1 large game on 3 discs. 1 movie-story in 3 parts. Does Mass Effect 3 give you lots of choice compared to the other 2 games? No. Not really. Mass Effect 3 is the ending of a movie. It's the big fight scene right before 20 minutes before the credits. It's the Skywalker reunion. It's the sum of all of your previous 2 games of choices.

3: Who's to say they weren't planning DLC for after the ending was released. (Maybe they legitimately weren't, but being Bioware, and EA - I assume they had a plethora of DLC ready, or planned from day 1) Why suddenly on this game is the ending "the ending", but with other games people accept that DLC will be probab;y released after the game - but this time nobody thought logically like "Yeah, they might release DLC. They love DLC" and said "What, THAT was it? What the fuck. I didn't like that. I can't believe there isn't more than that. What a joke. I'll complain until they change it so I like it better."


Because at this point it doesn't matter who liked the game, or the story, or ending they presented. It only matters if they can shut up the spoiled kids who've never been told "no". Squeaky wheel gets the grease. In all of that what is being entirely lost is that there are people who completely love the game and the series for what it was. People that have nothing to complain about other than the other people complaining about it.

[Angrist]

Maybe I missed the part where they legally have to change it.

The way I see it is that they want to keep their good reputation and not let it be besmeared by something their buyers can't appreciate (or are too stupid to understand?).
I also assume they partly agree with the criticism. This isn't one of those "the main character dies but that's the beauty of the story" things, it's more of a weird choice that has no deeper meaning.
Bioshock or whatever the developer is called apparently cares enough to add to the ending.

Edit: This isn't the food industry.Nice anology by the way. Perhaps the game industry is becoming more like the food industry. You have so much choice that you just pick the food/game you like. If everybody thinks the bread of McDonalds tastes like rubber, perhaps they should change it to keep their customer base.

[Vampyr]

Hey guys I know I'm a slowpoke, but I finally finished the game!

The ending was bad. Really bad.

And it wasn't bad because it was "sad", or because I died or anything like that. It was bad because it didn't make any sense with the rest of the lore. It was bad because of gaping plot holes. It was bad because it ignored your decisions.

It isn't even an opinion that the ending was bad. It was quantitatively bad. I can give you facts as to why it was bad. Anyone who says it wasn't bad is wrong.

Anyway, I chose the "control the reapers" ending. I didn't choose synthesis because it didn't seem right to make people into things they aren't. I didn't choose destruction because I don't accept genocide (killing the Geth) as a "good" ending. It bothers me that that ending is considered the "good" one - the one you have to have the most assets to unlock.

I've been reading into the indoctrination theory. What a longshot that is. If Bioware does end up using it in the epilogue I'm pretty sure it will be due to fan reaction and not because they actually planned on that being the ending.

[Combine 017]

I've been reading into the indoctrination theory. What a longshot that is. If Bioware does end up using it in the epilogue I'm pretty sure it will be due to fan reaction and not because they actually planned on that being the ending.

I agree, although I would still accept it and semi-forgive them if they use that, but then be mad for making me purchase an unfinished game.

[Vampyr]

I would too, honestly.

They just left that universe in such a terrible state.

1. I created the synthetic reapers to destroy all organics so that organics wouldn't create AI to destroy them. WTF.

2. All the Mass Relays were destroyed.

2a. If this is like in the Arrival DLC, so were a ton of solar systems including Sol System, where everyone is

2b. If it wasn't like Arrival, there are an enormous amount of people stranded in Sol system who are eventually going to die of starvation

3. How did Liara/Garrus/etc get back on the Normandy. Makes no sense.

If it turns out that the entire end sequence was a dream and that the crucible actually worked, that would be A-OK with me. Then let player choices play out in how the different characters and galactic politics behave in the epilogue.

I just want my Shep to have blue babies with Liara.

[Typhoid]

It isn't even an opinion that the ending was bad. It was quantitatively bad. I can give you facts as to why it was bad. Anyone who says it wasn't bad is wrong.


I enjoyed the game, and the ending of it.
Prove my perception and opinion wrong. ;)

I want to see these facts of yours, though.


(While I'm listening to the radio I just [of course] want to question/comment a couple things you said - just gives me something to talk about.)

They just left that universe in such a terrible state.


So? Is utter galactic devastation really so far-fetched when trying to comprehend a pretend alien invasion centred around harvesting all sentient life?

2b. If it wasn't like Arrival, there are an enormous amount of people stranded in Sol system who are eventually going to die of starvation
Again - so? Let those cunts starve, they were the expendable part of war. Maybe they are stranded to make you feel bad for them - because you as the player know that while the Universe is saved, they're ultimately fucked. Unless you chose to fuck the Universe - then they're fucked anyhow. :lol:

3. How did Liara/Garrus/etc get back on the Normandy. Makes no sense.
How does it make no sense to you? I don't mean that dickishly - just to you - where do the major flaws lie.
I just took that part as the "feel good" part of the ending. I banged Liara, and when she showed up on that planet with Joker and EDI I felt good, because I was like "Well awesome, at least they all didn't get screwed in that shockwave-thing that would have destroyed the ship fucking them all, and they actually randomly jumped somewhere to live out in peace, like ______ was talking about earlier in the game. And at least Liara has EDI's company and can eat Joker after he dies because she lives for another 700+ years. And at least Joker can get some sweet robot and alien sex in before he gets eaten."

I just assumed the game plopped in your best buddy at the end to show you someone you enjoyed playing with in the game didn't die, so you didn't have a complete empty death-hole left in your heart. :lol:


--------------------------------------

Again, about indoctrination.
I don't WANT to believe it. I like to have taken the game literally. What happened, happened.

But things make me think - like if the indoctrination thing wasn't a thing, then what was any of the fucking point of that little fucking kid who explodes in the ship, then shows up in all of your dreams running away from you and burning while smiling, and that kid also seemingly being the kid used as the catalyst.

Because 0 of that makes sense if you take the game literally. That's what makes me think about the game differently now, than the way I took it as while I was playing it.

But if he WAS indoctrinated, then that kid was simply an implant from a Reaper - as was the Catalyst - and the entire thing was a massive setup to attempt to get Shep to prolong the cycle on the Reapers behalf.

[Vampyr]

Those were just things I didn't personally like about the ending, not the reasons why it's bad (other than Liara and Garrus and everyone being on the Normandy, that's a legitimate reason it's bad).

I like how you're entire reason for liking the ending is that some parts made you feel good and some parts made you feel bad. If that's your criteria than this argument is already over and I have no chance of winning.

However, for the sake of argument, here is why the ending is bad:

1. The crew ended up back on the Normandy with Joker even though they were right behind me running to the beam. This is what we call a plot hole. It doesn't matter how it makes you feel - it's a plot hole. It is a quantitatively bad characteristic, not a subjective one.

2. The relays explode as soon as you make your decision. There's no way that Joker got the Normandy that close to the relay without leaving the crucible...which it's pretty safe to assume he didn't chicken out and run away.

3. You "save" the galaxy by having the reapers leave, one way or the other, but you either doomed thousands of people to being stranded at Earth or the explosions of the relays actually destroyed entire systems. You basically did the reapers job for them. Which is fine, if that's how they want to end it, but it's opposed to anything Sephard would have actually done. It goes against every choice you've made up until that point. It makes no sense.

4. It was really short. It treated the us, the gamers, like we were too stupid to understand a proper ending. After 5 years of sticking with this franchise and making hundreds of choices, we are given three choices with nearly identical end results and not told how anything turns out different. May be fine in another game, but not in Mass Effect where choice is paramount and the game was advertised as having endings that would be affected by your choices made through all three games.

[Typhoid]

I like how you're entire reason for liking the ending is that some parts made you feel good and some parts made you feel bad. If that's your criteria than this argument is already over and I have no chance of winning.

That's not why I liked the end, and I never said "I like the game because some parts make me feel good, and some parts make me feel bad" (Although if you break it down, isnt that why anyone likes or dislikes anything, because it makes you feel happy, or angry?)
I said I justified those parts as simply being bullshit "feel good" parts that are in most cheesy action movies at the end to give the viewer a sense of good, when all else is destroyed.

Also - what argument? Maybe this discussion would be better off from point A if you stop viewing each conversation where not everyone involved is a Yes Man as an "argument". :lol:




1. The crew ended up back on the Normandy with Joker even though they were right behind me running to the beam. This is what we call a plot hole. It doesn't matter how it makes you feel - it's a plot hole. It is a quantitatively bad characteristic, not a subjective one.

I never said it wasn't a plot hole. And I never defended the bad writing with "I enjoyed the game". I said I took the fact that everything 'worked out' for a handful of characters as a "feel good moment". The moment the hero comes back to the family after the building he was in explodes. That type of thing.


2. The relays explode as soon as you make your decision. There's no way that Joker got the Normandy that close to the relay without leaving the crucible...which it's pretty safe to assume he didn't chicken out and run away.

Isn't there a chance they could have just done some random lightspeed jump thing to take them to a random place in space - and not even use the Relay?
I don't mean that tongue-in-cheek. I'm not sure if that fake ship - The Normandy had the possibility to jump in space on it's own and would just wind up at a random location. I swear you did that in the last game to get away from Reapers or something.

3. You "save" the galaxy by having the reapers leave, one way or the other, but you either doomed thousands of people to being stranded at Earth or the explosions of the relays actually destroyed entire systems. You basically did the reapers job for them. Which is fine, if that's how they want to end it, but it's opposed to anything Sephard would have actually done. It goes against every choice you've made up until that point. It makes no sense.

.....in a series where there is no 'correct' plotline, and everyone has a different character - how can you "Know what Shepard would have actually done", especially when those are the only options given. :lol:
You know what your Shepard would have done.
You don't know what little Jimmy's would have done. Maybe little Jimmy's Shepard is a cunt and wants to destroy the entire Universe from day one. Then it makes complete sense.

4. It was really short. It treated the us, the gamers, like we were too stupid to understand a proper ending. After 5 years of sticking with this franchise and making hundreds of choices, we are given three choices with nearly identical end results and not told how anything turns out different. May be fine in another game, but not in Mass Effect where choice is paramount and the game was advertised as having endings that would be affected by your choices made through all three games.

I've never disagreed with that. The only thing I am, is content with the ending I received through my experiences playing the game.
I even said I felt like my choices in this game meant shit, and I felt like I was A(E)ffecting no Mass.
I came to terms with the fact that this game wasn't about choice - but about showing me my choices from the other games unfold - very early.
I agreed this game didn't feel like a Mass Effect game, and felt more like the MGS4 of it's series.
But I'm okay with that, and I'm allowed to be okay with that. I enjoyed the game(s) I played, I enjoyed the ridiculous amount of cutscenes I watched. I enjoyed the Universe they presented me, and they way they let me immerse myself in it, and interact with it.

Could the ending have been better? Of course. Hindsight's fantastic, and I never said the ending was amazing. I only said I was okay with it. That doesn't mean it's great.

A lot of parts of this game felt like cheese to me. Ultra 80's action movie cheese. They would put on some violin music, and Shepard would spew a few paragraphs of cheese while talking to Tali about her planet, Liara about...Liara, or Garrus about all the shit you've done in the previous two games. It had a lot of after-school-special moments. A lot of "Holy fuck, the Universe might end, let's declare how much we like eachother all the time" moments.

Maybe they thought it would go over really well, and it would make their fans think on a deeper level and appreciate the fact that no matter the choices they made, many people from many species still had to die to save everyone as a whole, and would look at the series as the big picture of all 3 games as 1 amazingly-intertwined story, rather than focusing on the ending of the series - where even the best outcome is still horrifyingly devastating - and wouldn't be upset that loose holes like how people got on ships mattered. :lol:

[Combine 017]

Isn't there a chance they could have just done some random lightspeed jump thing to take them to a random place in space - and not even use the Relay?
I don't mean that tongue-in-cheek. I'm not sure if that fake ship - The Normandy had the possibility to jump in space on it's own and would just wind up at a random location. I swear you did that in the last game to get away from Reapers or something

Yes, the Normandy could have used its FTL drive to randomly jump to some point in space, but it didnt do that, it used the Mass Relay, and due to the relay exploding the warp tunnel destabilized and cause the Normandy to crash.

And why must you constantly state that this is "pretend" or "fake"? Clearly you arent very deep into the Mass Effect lore. :p

[Fox 6]

FTL and the Mas Relays are 2 different things. FTL is for like shorter ranges between stars in the same system. The mass relays are for longer jumps like across the entire galaxy. He wouldnt be crashing from the mass relays exploding if he wasnt using them in the first place.

[Ginkasa]

Anyway, I chose the "control the reapers" ending. I didn't choose synthesis because it didn't seem right to make people into things they aren't. I didn't choose destruction because I don't accept genocide (killing the Geth) as a "good" ending. It bothers me that that ending is considered the "good" one - the one you have to have the most assets to unlock.



Just to clarify here (not that it really matters, I guess), but the "choice" that requires the most assets is synthesis. Being able to choose destroy actually requires the least amount of assets.

The reason its considered the "good" ending is because of an extra scene that can occur during the destroy sequence if you have uber amounts of assets. Basically, Shepard takes a breath back on Earth. Destroy is kind of interesting because it actually has a few versions of it depending on your assets. If you have few enough then destroy will be your only option and it will actually also destroy Earth along with the Reapers.

[Vampyr]

Just to clarify here (not that it really matters, I guess), but the "choice" that requires the most assets is synthesis. Being able to choose destroy actually requires the least amount of assets.

The reason its considered the "good" ending is because of an extra scene that can occur during the destroy sequence if you have uber amounts of assets. Basically, Shepard takes a breath back on Earth. Destroy is kind of interesting because it actually has a few versions of it depending on your assets. If you have few enough then destroy will be your only option and it will actually also destroy Earth along with the Reapers.

Okay, I was just going on what my wife was telling me when I was making my decision. She must have meant that destruction + surviving requires the most assets. That is the ending she got.

I debated a lot between synthesis and control. If I do the ending again I may choose synthesis - I watched the ending on youtube and I kind of like the moment with EDI and Joker at the end. I wasn't expecting everyone to look like the Illusive Man, I as expecting everyone to fuse together in weird robot/organic hybrids (basically turning them into reapers anyway).

.....in a series where there is no 'correct' plotline, and everyone has a different character - how can you "Know what Shepard would have actually done", especially when those are the only options given.
You know what your Shepard would have done.
You don't know what little Jimmy's would have done. Maybe little Jimmy's Shepard is a cunt and wants to destroy the entire Universe from day one. Then it makes complete sense.

Whether you played renegade or paragon Shephard your goal was still to stop the reapers and save the galaxy - that didn't change based on your decisions. The only thing that changes is your methods of doing so.

But doing something that destroys the galaxy regardless is out of character for both Shephards.

[Typhoid]

Whether you played renegade or paragon Shephard your goal was still to stop the reapers and save the galaxy - that didn't change based on your decisions. The only thing that changes is your methods of doing so.

But doing something that destroys the galaxy regardless is out of character for both Shephards.


So you're telling me that if I wanted to play the game with the goal of destroying the Universe and aiding the Reapers - my goal is still to destroy the Reapers and save the galaxy? :lol:

I'm just saying I don't think there is a "right" way to 'be' Shepard. Meaning there is no "correct" thing Shepard would do, and no base personality to compare the way you play to. Nothing is out of character for him, because there is no character of him/her.

The more I read your comment the more it makes me think (Because I was never angered by the end, it didn't make me feel 'good', I was simply content with the way the final chapter [third game] tied the previous games together, and really enjoyed the game itself) - but maaaybe the writers were going for the whole "even the best option is still horribly devastating" thing.
Like dropping nukes on Japan to stop the war, you know. Many people died - but how many did it save?
I found a lot of options in ME3 were "save this person, these people die"/"save those people, this person dies".
It's like they went out of their way several times to attempt to make you think about saving the herd, or saving a goat, and the tough choices involved with leaving people behind in war, or self-sacrifice in order to save other people. I remember so many scenes where people just needlessly die - or sacrifice their own life to finish the mission, and everyone has to just move on to complete the missions because if they don't, that person died for nothing in the larger scale of the Reaper attack.

That just sort of seemed like a pretty big theme to me - and that theme didn't seem to be lost in the final choice. I remember actually standing there for a good 3 minutes at the end choice because I had a "Jesus Christ, what the fuck do I do" moment.
The gravity of the choice seemed so large to me. It didn't matter to me if there wasn't a "save everyone, save the Relays, permanently Destroy the Reapers" option, because I wouldn't have viewed that as 'too realistic' in the Universe it's presented in, especially when the backdrop is currently Earth being blown up and invaded by Reapers. :lol:


And why must you constantly state that this is "pretend" or "fake"? Clearly you arent very deep into the Mass Effect lore.

Personal comedy. I usually throw a "fake" into things when talking about video games. I always refer to playing NHL 12 as "fake hockey". Yet I love hockey lore. ;)

I find it funny to debate (in a serious manner) the capabilities of a spaceship that doesn't exist. So to ease my own nerves and make myself giggle at the dumb shit I feel like I am talking about, I throw a "fake" in there.

FTL and the Mas Relays are 2 different things. FTL is for like shorter ranges between stars in the same system. The mass relays are for longer jumps like across the entire galaxy. He wouldnt be crashing from the mass relays exploding if he wasnt using them in the first place.

I just wasn't sure if they jumped by the relays before they exploded, or just did a "Heys guys', lets getses outsa's heres'" type thing and just pressed the "panic" button.
Isn't it a possibility (I'm not saying I believe this, hence the 'possibility') that they'd randomly jump to a random point in space? Maybe it's 100% shown that it's the Mass Relay they take. I'm not sure if them flying away from the shockwave is them in the Mass Relay, or simply FTL-ing away from the shockwave. I just like factual clarification. :lol:

[Combine 017]

So you're telling me that if I wanted to play the game with the goal of destroying the Universe and aiding the Reapers - my goal is still to destroy the Reapers and save the galaxy? :lol:
There is no option of playing the game with the goal of destroying the Universe and aiding the reapers. Thats like wanting to play Halo with the goal of helping the Covenant.

I just wasn't sure if they jumped by the relays before they exploded, or just did a "Heys guys', lets getses outsa's heres'" type thing and just pressed the "panic" button.
Isn't it a possibility (I'm not saying I believe this, hence the 'possibility') that they'd randomly jump to a random point in space? Maybe it's 100% shown that it's the Mass Relay they take. I'm not sure if them flying away from the shockwave is them in the Mass Relay, or simply FTL-ing away from the shockwave. I just like factual clarification. :lol:

I dont think the initial shockwave was traveling at light speed, and even if they were just FTL'ing in any random direction, it would take years to reach another star system. And if you like clarification how can you like the ending of ME3? Barely anything was clarified there. :p

[Typhoid]

There is no option of playing the game with the goal of destroying the Universe and aiding the reapers. Thats like wanting to play Halo with the goal of helping the Covenant.

I talked poorly.

But can you not just be a dick the entire series, helping as few people as possible, choosing every renegade option, then choosing the most devastating ending in the final game? I know that isn't "helping the Reapers" literally, because they want to harvest life to make synthetic life - and if anything, synthesis would probably be helping the Reapers - but I just meant in the "saving as little as possible" sense.

Just because the Reapers are invading doesn't mean your goal is to repel them. Hell, one of the final options is to control them. Maybe if your evil you're hoping to control them and destroy more things. Who knows. Maybe you're hoping that synthesis is helping the Reapers. Maybe you want the Earth to be engulfed in a ring of flame. Who knows. Maybe you wanted Sovereign to succeed in the original game. Maybe you wanted the Geth to overthrow the Quarians. Who knows, man!

And if you like clarification how can you like the ending of ME3? Barely anything was clarified there.

joshin' aside - I got to play this game after being with Dylan while he went through all his stages of grief with the ending of the game, and the holes presented and whatnot. So I had already reached the acceptance stage before even installing the game into my system. I'd already heard about the shitty experiences, so I wasn't concerned. While I was playing I was far angrier at all the technical glitches I got. Nothing more anger-fying than rolling (for transport) into a barrier and instantly dying, or getting stuck on walls and corners that you wouldn't think you'd be able to get your character stuck on.

But Dylan made the good comment of [paraphrased] "It bugged me that when you die, the story just ends like that. But I'm okay with it now. It's the story of you as Shepard, and when you die, the story is over."

[Ginkasa]

Its not like that. Unlike something like Fallout or Elder Scrolls or even other Bioware games like KotOR or Baldur's Gate, Shepard does have a little bit of pre-determined character. That character is, without debate, all about saving the galaxy from the Reapers. He is always the good guy, no matter what the player wants. The player just gets to choose whether he's nice about it or whatever.

When Shepard chooses the not help someone its because he's looking at the greater good. He's saving the universe, NO he doesn't have time to stop and decide whether to give your baby genetic modifications or not. If Shepard decides to ruin somebody's day its because either a) that person is the enemy and NO MERCY b) its for the greater good (dropping a nuke or prevent and deadly invasion) c) Sir Isaac Newton is the deadliest son of a gun in space.

Shepard is never looking to take over the Reapers and wreak havoc or destroy Earth. I know this because Shepard makes this very clear throughout the games no matter what choices you make. The player may want to be an evil overlord and kill everything, but they can't do that in ME. The player chooses how Shepard goes about saving the universe, but not why and certainly not whether he should or not.