Buying a new Gaming PC

[Professor S]

What is the best place to buy a gaming pc for ~$1,000? My old rig is dying a slow death after 5 years, and its time to buy new, and honestly building my own almost as expensive as buying from places like New Egg or Cyberpower.

My concern is that I want it to be well made, not packed with bloatware.

[TheSlyMoogle]

Honestly NewEgg has some decent deals as well as TigerDirect on pre-built gaming PCs.

However building your own rig is perhaps one of the most enjoyable experiences I can think of.

Figuring out what works on a budget, putting everything together, and then setting everything up on your own is beautiful.

Not only that, but you know the ins and outs of your PC at that point, so if anything goes wrong you know what's up when you need to fix it.

[Jason1]

I purchased one from Ibuypower.com a few months ago. I previously purchased from them quite a few years before that, and it was a good well built PC.

My only complaint is the shipping is a little slow. It was like 3 weeks from the time I placed the order til I actually received it in the mail. But I have had no problems with it, and there are a TON of options for configurations.

[Angrist]

Wouldn't it be cheaper to buy a $500 system and upgrade every 3 or 4 years?

[Blix]

My advice is to build your own rig. You have to do some research (which is always a good thing) and putting a computer together is easy and there's lots of videos and articles on youtube, ign and pretty much every computer website has an (obligatory) article on how to do it.


Edit: BTW Agrist, for $100 I think he can get a really good pc if he just reuses the case (the S&H on those is expensive) and maybe the hard drive and DVD burner. A really good gaming card goes for $300 and a good motherboard, I'd say, $200.

[magus113]

My advice is to build your own rig. You have to do some research (which is always a good thing) and putting a computer together is easy and there's lots of videos and articles on youtube, ign and pretty much every computer website has an (obligatory) article on how to do it.


Edit: BTW Agrist, for $100 I think he can get a really good pc if he just reuses the case (the S&H on those is expensive) and maybe the hard drive and DVD burner. A really good gaming card goes for $300 and a good motherboard, I'd say, $200.

I think 300 for a good card is steep.

Maybe if you're doing nVidia rigs. nVidia cards are really expensive in my experience. I mean, I have an 8800 now since I haven't upgraded in about 2-3 years, but when I build my new rig, I'm going ATi. I just looked yesterday and an XFX 6750 with 1GB of GDDR5 256-bit RAM and Eyefinity for 170. That's a pretty damn good card, and if you're concerned about a little bit of future proofing a second one is pretty cheap so you can do CrossfireX with it.

CrosssfireX works a lot better for me too because SLi actually doesn't support dual monitors. I kinda need that, my PC doubles as a media center in my bedroom as well.

[Blix]

I think 300 for a good card is steep.

Maybe if you're doing nVidia rigs. nVidia cards are really expensive in my experience. I mean, I have an 8800 now since I haven't upgraded in about 2-3 years, but when I build my new rig, I'm going ATi. I just looked yesterday and an XFX 6750 with 1GB of GDDR5 256-bit RAM and Eyefinity for 170. That's a pretty damn good card, and if you're concerned about a little bit of future proofing a second one is pretty cheap so you can do CrossfireX with it.

CrosssfireX works a lot better for me too because SLi actually doesn't support dual monitors. I kinda need that, my PC doubles as a media center in my bedroom as well.

I'm currently an ATI user. I am thinking of going with Nvidia because I always hear that their drivers are better and that they manage to mantain better FPS with higher Anti-aliasing. The 6950 (as far as I've heard) is where it's at. But at least up there, the competition is pretty close. I've heard that the 6850 is the best bang for your buck if you don't want to spend too much and that's $200 or less. I'm doing my research on Nvidia's cards but I haven't had much time. I know that Ati has problems in games like Dirt 3 where the drivers made the sun and the lighting be pink or something like that. But when Crysis 2 runs the way it should on Nvidia but had a significant performance problem on Ati cards, I really started believing what some dedicated PC builders were telling my about Nvidia and how it did some things better.

Overall it seems both companies have their strengths and weaknesses. I might change my mind back but I want to try the Nvidia cards next time. I'm buying a new card at the end of the year ( I hope) since i need a card that's DX11 ready and my 4890 is holding me back on that matter.

[magus113]

I'm currently an ATI user. I am thinking of going with Nvidia because I always hear that their drivers are better and that they manage to mantain better FPS with higher Anti-aliasing. The 6950 (as far as I've heard) is where it's at. But at least up there, the competition is pretty close. I've heard that the 6850 is the best bang for your buck if you don't want to spend too much and that's $200 or less. I'm doing my research on Nvidia's cards but I haven't had much time. I know that Ati has problems in games like Dirt 3 where the drivers made the sun and the lighting be pink or something like that. But when Crysis 2 runs the way it should on Nvidia but had a significant performance problem on Ati cards, I really started believing what some dedicated PC builders were telling my about Nvidia and how it did some things better.

Overall it seems both companies have their strengths and weaknesses. I might change my mind back but I want to try the Nvidia cards next time. I'm buying a new card at the end of the year ( I hope) since i need a card that's DX11 ready and my 4890 is holding me back on that matter.

The drivers thing is probably an issue cause I'm sure I've heard about things like that from ATi users, but you also have to understand that when games are coded specifically for nVidia cards, it's all marketing bullshit. How can you expect things to run perfectly when you're not doing your job as a developer and making games that run well on all hardware, driver issues aside? There's a money thing happening behind the scenes, I'm sure of it. Why else would games be marketed with nVidia as "the way it's meant to be played"?

I have friends that are currently ATi users and they haven't had issues running anything current so who knows. I just don't like paying a lot of money for cards that can run just as well for something that costs almost twice as much.

[magus113]

Side note to Blix:

I also don't really support anti-aliasing, since most games run fine when you're playing them at your monitor's native resolution and don't really need it. I start seeing the jaggies when I have to force something to run at something that isn't the native resolution of my monitor at home.

But that's me and what I see when I play my games on my PC at home.

[KillerGremlin]

I used to be an Nvidia devotee but they totally fucked over a large number of users by not making or supporting drivers on a ton of Vista-gen cards. I know that Vista was a hardware-software nightmare for everyone, but Nvidia has some shady dealings with companies like Dell and their driver support is so-so to the point that the mod community has supplemented a ton of Nvidia drivers.

I can't speak about ATI's evils since I'm not as experienced, but I have heard good things about their cards and I'm sure you are fine either way.



@Prof S: If you go here: http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=10&Order=RATING

For not a lot of beans you can get a pretty sweet pre-built machine these days. Obviously you have more control over the finer details if you build yourself, but if there has ever been a time in history where buying pre-built is almost as good as building yourself, it would be today.

The reality is that if you buy a manufactured PC you are going to see _SOME_ corners cut. So go with the reviews and the price and the spces you want. The PC gaming video curve seems to have hit a bit of a lull, so any card made within the past 2 or 3 years should tackle any recent game. If you want to play the killer game coming out in 2 years you'll want a top of the line GPU set up.

My advice is to chop 150 off your PC price and invest in buying Windows...this way you can just reformat the PC from the get-go and wipe out all the crap and bloatware that is going to come installed.

[manasecret]

I just built my new PC last October. I work with a bunch of engineers who pride themselves on building and getting the best PCs, and don't mind paying $3000+ for them. I play a bunch of games with them.

I paid ~$970 and it outruns all of theirs. While they spend a bunch of their time troubleshooting why it's not running very fast and keeping it from overheating, I have had zero problems with mine. I play Starcraft 2 and Civ 5 and Portal 2 on the highest settings with no slowdown.

Here's exactly what I bought:

1 x Rosewill Blackbone Black Steel / Plastic ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
1 x ASUS P7P55D LGA 1156 Intel P55 ATX Intel Motherboard
1 x XFX HD-487A-ZWFC Radeon HD 4870 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card
1 x Intel Core i5-750 Lynnfield 2.66GHz LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core Processor BX80605I5750
1 x OCZ Vertex Series OCZSSD2-1VTX60G 2.5" 60GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
1 x G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9S-4GBRL
1 x ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro Rev.2 92mm Fluid Dynamic CPU Cooler
1 x Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders - OEM
1 x Western Digital Caviar Blue WD10EALS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
1 x Sony Optiarc CD/DVD Burner Black SATA Model AD-7261S-0B LightScribe Support - OEM
1 x 2.5" to 3.5" converter (for the SSD drive, get the cheapest one you can find)
1 x ~700W OCZ power supply

Sorry, Newegg isn't good about linking your old orders to actual products. Just look for the equivalent versions that are still sold now, and you are golden.

Whichever way you go, make sure you SPEND EXTRA ON AN SSD DRIVE. It doesn't have to be big, 60 GB minimum will do though I recommend 120 GB as it does quickly run out for games. You're just putting the OS and any other programs you can fit on there, and regardless of how much you spend on all other parts, THAT ALONE will make your new PC the zippiest computer you have ever had.

EDIT: I added the power supply. I reused my very good OCZ one from my old PC, the only thing I reused.

Speaking of which... would anyone like to purchase the very best AGP videocard ever made? I give you good price my friend. :)

[Professor S]

While I appreciate all of the advice, you people are too fucking complicated. :D

How about this: I post the PCs I'm interested in, you you techno-people rate them in terms of value and running most games at max settings at 1920x1080 on the 23in monitor. Keep in mind, I need this to run MS Office for work as well.

Here is the one I'm leaning towards:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883229253

Here is another I'm interest in with a better processor:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883229262

Does the i5 2500k processor enhance gaming on any significant level, or will the GPU and RAM do the real work?

[Blix]

The drivers thing is probably an issue cause I'm sure I've heard about things like that from ATi users, but you also have to understand that when games are coded specifically for nVidia cards, it's all marketing bullshit. How can you expect things to run perfectly when you're not doing your job as a developer and making games that run well on all hardware, driver issues aside? There's a money thing happening behind the scenes, I'm sure of it. Why else would games be marketed with nVidia as "the way it's meant to be played"?

I have friends that are currently ATi users and they haven't had issues running anything current so who knows. I just don't like paying a lot of money for cards that can run just as well for something that costs almost twice as much.

Maybe the games being coded with one company in mind has something to do with it. But there's also games with "Runs better with ATI" on them. Nvidia will have the series 600 out by the time I have money to buy a new card and Ati will have the 78XX series too. I'll check them both out later and decide. I don't have much time to do a proper research and even less interest because I have no money for them atm.

[magus113]

I'm saving my money for until about October/November for BF3 and to be closer to the time where Intel is gonna start releasing 22nm dies on their processors. The Sandy Bridge-E processors are absurd, but they're only for the new LGA 2011 socket that's not coming out yet, and let's add that since it's a new socket, it's going to need a new motherboard which will probably be expensive.

Let's see how much I can actually save to decide how crazy of a computer I want to get.

I have nowhere near enough money to do so now though. Especially with my car payments.

[TheSlyMoogle]

While I appreciate all of the advice, you people are too fucking complicated. :D

How about this: I post the PCs I'm interested in, you you techno-people rate them in terms of value and running most games at max settings at 1920x1080 on the 23in monitor. Keep in mind, I need this to run MS Office for work as well.

Here is the one I'm leaning towards:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883229253

Here is another I'm interest in with a better processor:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883229262

Does the i5 2500k processor enhance gaming on any significant level, or will the GPU and RAM do the real work?


It's mostly your graphics card and RAM that are doing the real work with gaming.

I have been running AMD for years in my PCs and have never had a problem. To be really honest my roommate is running a PC with one of the i7 processors and I swear it takes him at least 30 seconds more to load everything in games.

I honestly couldn't justify spending an extra like 120 dollars on the second rig. I would say go for the first, but either one will be good for you probably for at least 4-5 years of gaming, maybe even more than that.

Your basic question is "Can it run Crysis 2?"

Yes. Yes it can. At maximum settings.

As for Microsoft office, you'll definitely be fine. Lol.

AND ALSO THIS:

http://www.gameranx.com/updates/id/2316/article/dead-island-pc-system-requirements-revealed/

[TheSlyMoogle]

Also for the arguments, I've used ATi cards for years and never had a problem. Usually any driver issues with games will be patched soon after the release within a couple of weeks at most.

Also the only games I've ever heard about issues with were usually games I definitely wasn't interested in (Such as Dirt 3)

[TheSlyMoogle]

Also for the arguments, I've used ATi cards for years and never had a problem. Usually any driver issues get fixed pretty quickly after games are released.

Also the only games I've ever heard about issues with were usually games I definitely wasn't interested in (Such as Dirt 3)

[Professor S]

Final question: The the $829 AMD build a good deal for a boutique gaming PC?

[Vampyr]

This thread has really reignited my desire to build a PC.

My Vaio of the past 2 years is still chugging along beautifully though. Can't really justify replacing it. I finally ran into a game I wanted to play that it couldn't handle, though, Just Cause 2, but I just turned the resolution down a notch and it ran fine.

[Professor S]

I ordered the AMD version and after ebates.com discounts and a promo code I basically got shipping for free. Thanks to everyone for their help.

[KillerGremlin]

I ordered the AMD version and after ebates.com discounts and a promo code I basically got shipping for free. Thanks to everyone for their help.

Gives us updates yo.

Also I haven't seen such epic derailment in a thread in a long while. Good job guys! :lolz:

[manasecret]

I ordered the AMD version and after ebates.com discounts and a promo code I basically got shipping for free. Thanks to everyone for their help.

You shoulda priced the parts and built it yourself. Not a good price. And didn't even include an SSD drive at that price. :lol:

But I guess convenience trumps quality yet again.

[Professor S]

You shoulda priced the parts and built it yourself. Not a good price. And didn't even include an SSD drive at that price. :lol:

But I guess convenience trumps quality yet again.

You underestimate my lack of confidence and skill, lol. ;)

I did price the parts (on new egg), and I paid about $100 extra (part for part) to have the computer built by professionals for me instead of my fumbling ass putting it together. That $100 probably saved me half a day or more of cursing and stress. That's half a day I can spent fragging noobs or smoking cigars.

Also, it's 10 times the PC I would get for the same price at Best Buy.

Time is money, my friend. Also, not frying my MB with static electricity is a blessing as well...

[Vampyr]

You shoulda priced the parts and built it yourself. Not a good price. And didn't even include an SSD drive at that price. :lol:

But I guess convenience trumps quality yet again.

I have an SSD at work, and one one hand I love the speed and snappiness of it.

On the other, they are much, much more prone to failure, and I live in constant worry it's going to die.

I think for a home PC I'd just go for a 7400 RPM drive. You'll also get a lot more space that way.

[Seth]

I've got the Phenom 965 BE running on the ASUS crosshair formula MB. GSkill Ram and an MSI GTX 460 1 gb. Coolermaster storm scout and a 30$ heatsink that works great.

It's a good cpu. The 3.4 can be overclocked to an even 4.

The only thing I would have wanted to know for sure is the gpu brand(asus, msi, sapphire, etc) and the specifics of the motherboard. I noticed it doesn't have usb 3 support and only one 16x slot which limits your option to add a second gpu, which in 2 years would reinvent your rig.
Good choice though, a good gaming rig at a good price.

I'd recommend an aftermarket heatsink(coolermaster) since the extra size won't be interfering with an added jumbo gpu.

[KillerGremlin]

Yeah, replacing stock heatsinks and adding thermal paste is an easy and cheap way to improve longevity and durability of pre-built PCs. Fans too.

[Professor S]

Yeah, replacing stock heatsinks and adding thermal paste is an easy and cheap way to improve longevity and durability of pre-built PCs. Fans too.

The case comes with two fans, but I'm waiting to see what I get when it comes to the CPU heatsink. Cyberpower usually includes liquid cooling. At this price point they might have left stock, but you never know.

I'll post pics when it comes.

[manasecret]

I have an SSD at work, and one one hand I love the speed and snappiness of it.

On the other, they are much, much more prone to failure, and I live in constant worry it's going to die.

I think for a home PC I'd just go for a 7400 RPM drive. You'll also get a lot more space that way.

Eh I think the failure rates are overrated. Hard drives fail all the time, too. And you can put a hard disk at 10,000,000,000,000,000 RPM, and it will never match the latency of an SSD drive. The arm will always have to lurch over from spot to spot no matter the RPM. The beauty of SSD is in small, random read/writes, which is what makes using it so snappy.

And you get the SSD for the main local drive. Any other large programs and files go on the regular hard disk.

[KillerGremlin]

Yup...my best friend has an SSD drive and it's insane. He uses it solely for the OS and games he installs. All his music and video gets stored on external 1TB Hard Drives. Games load like butter. It really is insane.

Right now the cost of the SSDs is still high, so if you get one use it as a main drive and do mass storage on regular old fashioned HDs.

[manasecret]

You underestimate my lack of confidence and skill, lol. ;)

I did price the parts (on new egg), and I paid about $100 extra (part for part) to have the computer built by professionals for me instead of my fumbling ass putting it together. That $100 probably saved me half a day or more of cursing and stress. That's half a day I can spent fragging noobs or smoking cigars.

Also, it's 10 times the PC I would get for the same price at Best Buy.

Time is money, my friend. Also, not frying my MB with static electricity is a blessing as well...

Lame excuses honestly which deprives you of very useful information and experience going forward in both life and career, but I understand and I am not free from making the same lazy choices. Every time I go to a mechanic, I wish I would just learn to do it myself. That is, if it isn't summer in Houston at the time. I don't have the will power to learn to fix my car in 100 degree weather.

(That's 100 degree temperature, btw, NOT heat index. Add 114% humidity to that... and that week long heat wave of mid-90 degree temperatures that hit the east awhile back can bite me. Houston IS a perpetual heat-wave. :))

[Professor S]

It may make sense for you to spend hours fussing with building a computer. I have a 1 year old, a wife, a full time job, a house to care for, etc. It makes no sense for me to waste a day building a PC when it costs me $100 extra for a professional to do it right and ship it to me for free. Building a PC is simply not high on my list of priorities.

Don't confuse lazy with smart. Stupid people work hard for no reason, and at the expense of things they care about.

[Vampyr]

I think it's fine for people not to build their own PC's...if you don't know what you're doing, and if it doesn't boot up correctly the first time (which is usually the case), it's going to be a stressful few hours while you try to figure out what's up. That will be the case even if you DO know what your doing.

[manasecret]

It may make sense for you to spend hours fussing with building a computer. I have a 1 year old, a wife, a full time job, a house to care for, etc. It makes no sense for me to waste a day building a PC when it costs me $100 extra for a professional to do it right and ship it to me for free. Building a PC is simply not high on my list of priorities.

Don't confuse lazy with smart. Stupid people work hard for no reason, and at the expense of things they care about.

If it's not laziness then it's a lack of understanding of how building your own computer gives you a leg up versus everyone else in the market doing your same job (assuming it involves computers in any way). While someone else would be stuck waiting for someone to fix their computer or, worse, spending money to have someone fix it (and it's almost always something exceedingly simple to fix), you would be saving time (which as you said is money) and actual cash by fixing it yourself right away. And you would get more work done.

I also think everyone should learn basic programming skills, because it will make you vastly more efficient over others in whatever job you're in when you realize you can have a computer do most of your computer work more efficiently and with far fewer errors.

That is, unless you're the CEO and your time really is worth $500/hr+... then in that case it really is a waste to learn. Just pay others to do everything for you.

By the way, I'm not trying to be a dick here. I honestly believe this stuff, and especially for someone that I respect like you (or anyone else on these forums). Computers rule the work world. You're better off knowing as much as you can about them, and the BEST way to learn is to build your own.

[Vampyr]

I don't think you learn that much about computers by building one. :\

It's really just the equivalent of putting together some large lego blocks.

[Blix]

Gives us updates yo.

Also I haven't seen such epic derailment in a thread in a long while. Good job guys! :lolz:

That's the side effect of bringing the Ati or Nvidia debate to any thread.

[TheSlyMoogle]

Uhm about that static electricity thing with the motherboards, I've probably built about 15 computers now for myself and friends throughout the years since I graduated high school and I've never grounded myself and never had an issue with the motherboard.

Anyone else have any input?

[TheSlyMoogle]

I don't think you learn that much about computers by building one. :\

It's really just the equivalent of putting together some large lego blocks.

Well that's not really true, you learn quite a bit about them while building them.

Yes it's really easy, but at the same time think of all the stuff you do before you build one:

match parts together
usually you read about the individual parts in some manner that tells you what they do for the computer, it may be simplified but you still learn
You learn about your specific rig and what to fix if something goes wrong, and since you put it together once you know how to replace anything in it
You usually learn about fun little errors that can happen to your computer after the initial building.
You learn how to format hard drives and what that all means, change settings in BIOS etc.
Learn how to install an operating system if you've never done that before and a lot of people haven't
Learn how to install hardware drivers and all that fun stuff (Well windows 7 takes care of most of that these days.)


It really is quite the learning experience if you've never done these type of things yourself. I can also see where it would be overwhelming, and it is time consuming. Around an hour to put the PC together and then anywhere from 3-6 hours getting it setup after that, depending on if anything went wrong during the setup. (SPOILERZ: SOMETHING ALWAYS GOES WRONG! Like the time I was sent a PSU that had been switched to european voltage, can we say smoke and fire?)

[gekko]

The drivers thing is probably an issue cause I'm sure I've heard about things like that from ATi users, but you also have to understand that when games are coded specifically for nVidia cards, it's all marketing bullshit. How can you expect things to run perfectly when you're not doing your job as a developer and making games that run well on all hardware, driver issues aside? There's a money thing happening behind the scenes, I'm sure of it. Why else would games be marketed with nVidia as "the way it's meant to be played"?

Your analysis is fascinating. Gave me a good laugh.

[KillerGremlin]

Uhm about that static electricity thing with the motherboards, I've probably built about 15 computers now for myself and friends throughout the years since I graduated high school and I've never grounded myself and never had an issue with the motherboard.

Anyone else have any input?

Provided you weren't standing around on carpet or touching any volatile areas of the mobo, you probably were okay. You also ground yourself by touching the case so...

[manasecret]

Might also be that there's high humidity where you live. I could walk around all day on carpet here in Houston and never get a static shock, while I remember being in Dallas one winter at my sister's carpeted house and shocking everything. The moisture in the air absorbs the charge.

[Professor S]

Well that's not really true, you learn quite a bit about them while building them.

Yes it's really easy, but at the same time think of all the stuff you do before you build one:

match parts together

This I can do easily, and in fact when I researched my PC I compared it to a self-build with parts I chose on new egg. Also, I tend to upgrade my own machines (GPU, PSU, RAM), which is why my old one lasted as long as it did.

You learn about your specific rig and what to fix if something goes wrong, and since you put it together once you know how to replace anything in it.

This I can do to a point, mainly if the issue is with the GPU, RAM or PSU. :D

You usually learn about fun little errors that can happen to your computer after the initial building.

Now we're starting to come off the rails... this does not compute with my definition of fun. To me, this is an economic equation.

You learn how to format hard drives and what that all means, change settings in BIOS etc.
Learn how to install an operating system if you've never done that before and a lot of people haven't

Right here is where I check out. Once the BIOS, setting, etc. all get involved my face turns bright red and I go into a blind beserker rage. When I come to, the house is destroyed and there is a slaughtered goat with teeth marks in my living room.

Learn how to install hardware drivers and all that fun stuff (Well windows 7 takes care of most of that these days.)

This I've handled in the past as well.

It really is quite the learning experience if you've never done these type of things yourself. I can also see where it would be overwhelming, and it is time consuming. Around an hour to put the PC together and then anywhere from 3-6 hours getting it setup after that, depending on if anything went wrong during the setup.)

Time is really the issue. It all comes down to how much time will it take, and how much money will I save by doing it myself. I fully expect to lose an entire day to putting a PC together myself, especially if I've never done it before. It only costs me $100 to pay someone else to put it together for me, and I pay myself WAY more than $100 a day. (That translates to $26,000 a year for a 5 day work week.)

When I compare that to my salary, and the value I place on my "free" time, I've losing well over $100 in opportunity cost if I do it myself.

This, my friends, is the basis of our economy and wealth creation.

For more on opportunity cost:

<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/y0gGyeA-8C4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[manasecret]

First off, oh please. :) That argument only holds up if you had spent the time you would have spent building the computer making money by working instead. By your own admission you wouldn't have. You would have done, what? Fixed a leak in bathroom sink, or painted your house, or cleaned up, or some other household chore? Talk about useless knowledge and skills, yet I bet you don't pay someone to do most or any of your housework, am I right?

Now, playing with your kid, fine, that's lost opportunity. But I'm sure not even the majority of that time would have been spent playing with your kid.

Secondly, I think you're still arguing the wrong point. Computers rule the work world. It's not like you're learning how to change the brakes in your car, which for most people does not supplement their work knowledge. Instead you have just lost a great opportunity to pull yourself ahead of everyone else in the market doing your job. I don't know the economic term for it, but I know the worth of that knowledge is far more than $100.

Thus, laziness. It's ok, call it opportunity cost if it makes you feel better. :p

[Professor S]

First off, oh please. :) That argument only holds up if you had spent the time you would have spent building the computer making money by working instead.

Absolutely not. If you're not applying a dollar value to your non-work time, you basically consider it worthless. My non-work time is the most valuable time I have. Its the time I spend with my wife and child, and maintaining my home (my single largest investment).

And if you don't think you spend the majority of your free time with a 1 year old, then you've never had a 1 year old... :D

[Professor S]

By your own admission you wouldn't have. You would have done, what? Fixed a leak in bathroom sink, or painted your house, or cleaned up, or some other household chore? Talk about useless knowledge and skills, yet I bet you don't pay someone to do most or any of your housework, am I right?

Again, we're talking about opportunity cost. It would cost me about $300 to pay a plumber clear a clogged drain line (not a sink, a main line). Takes me about an hour or less to do it myself.

Having someone build my PC costs me $100, and saves me 6-8 hours (likely).

Economically, it makes sense for me to clear my own drain AND pay someone to build my PC. Then again, if I needed to replace plumbing it may pay me to hire someone. It all depends on the cost vs. time equation. We make these tradeoffs everyday (and it keeps McDonalds in business).

Secondly, I think you're still arguing the wrong point. Computers rule the work world. It's not like you're learning how to change the brakes in your car, which for most people does not supplement their work knowledge. Instead you have just lost a great opportunity to pull yourself ahead of everyone else in the market doing your job. I don't know the economic term for it, but I know the worth of that knowledge is far more than $100.

What I know is that every time I even think about "fixing" a PC at work the OPs department smacks me on the back of the head and tells me to "cut the shit". Tech people don't want me to fix a computer. That's what they're paid to do. I'm paid to teach and provide consultation. This is another important economic concept called "specialization" that creates efficiencies and wealth.

[Vampyr]

This is the most boring internet argument I've ever seen. :\

[KillerGremlin]

This is the most boring internet argument I've ever seen. :\

Does this mean we are old people now?

[TheSlyMoogle]

Does this mean we are old people now?

We are getting there.

I was like 16 when I started posting here. Jesus...

[magus113]

We are getting there.

I was like 16 when I started posting here. Jesus...

You were sixteen? Jeez, I was in the 6th grade. I'm 23 now. Time flies.

[TheSlyMoogle]

You were sixteen? Jeez, I was in the 6th grade. I'm 23 now. Time flies.

And we've been posting here forever and look at all the new kids who have larger post counts than us!!!

Shame.

I'm 25 now.

[Vampyr]

Been here since I was 15. :) Was a "writer" for gamingnow.net.

[magus113]

I attribute my low post count to my years of absence.

It happens.

[Vampyr]

I'm only 103 away from 5,000. It has been a long time coming.

[KillerGremlin]

Holy fuck....2001. Hahaha. I weathered the AGB/MM storm too. I guess that means 10 years? Christ. If we measured time in loads, I'd be pushing probably 4000. :lol:

[TheSlyMoogle]

Time flys when you're slowly dying of old age :O

[Teuthida]

Forget if I was 14 or 15. First year of high school I know. 1999. Jeez. Nintendodolphin.net > Nintendose > GameTavern...and in between most of gekko's sites. No idea how many posts I should have. Went through numerous accounts.

And I don't even really play video games anymore. Just stay for the atmosphere.

[Jason1]

Okay well it is time for me to upgrade my RAM, I would like to add another 2 Gig stick to bump my total RAM from 4 Gig to 6. I really dont feel like researching which type of RAM will work with my current RAM. So here is what I did: I peeked into my case and read the side of my current RAM. It reads as follows:

Corsair CM3X2G1600C9NX
XMS3 1600 1600 mhz
9-9-9-24

What does this all mean and which cheap RAM can I buy off of Newegg that will be compatable? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

[magus113]

Okay well it is time for me to upgrade my RAM, I would like to add another 2 Gig stick to bump my total RAM from 4 Gig to 6. I really dont feel like researching which type of RAM will work with my current RAM. So here is what I did: I peeked into my case and read the side of my current RAM. It reads as follows:

Corsair CM3X2G1600C9NX
XMS3 1600 1600 mhz
9-9-9-24

What does this all mean and which cheap RAM can I buy off of Newegg that will be compatable? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

The four numbers on the bottom are CAS latency, which you shouldn't have to worry about. They say lower is better but the RAM is so fast it technically shouldn't matter.

The only thing you really need to be looking for is make sure that the RAM is specced at DDR3 1600.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007611%20600006061%20600006127&IsNodeId=1&name=DDR3%201600%20%28PC3%2012800%29

That link up there is a customized search on Newegg that gives you all of their options for a single 2 GB stick of RAM that will work with yours. Also, make sure that your version of Windows is actually 64-bit Windows cause if you get more than 4 gigs of RAM, anything above that on 32-bit Windows is actually useless. Unfortunately this requires formatting your computer if you don't already have it because I don't think you can do upgrades from 32-bit to 64-bit, but I've been wrong before.

[Jason1]

The four numbers on the bottom are CAS latency, which you shouldn't have to worry about. They say lower is better but the RAM is so fast it technically shouldn't matter.

The only thing you really need to be looking for is make sure that the RAM is specced at DDR3 1600.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007611%20600006061%20600006127&IsNodeId=1&name=DDR3%201600%20%28PC3%2012800%29

That link up there is a customized search on Newegg that gives you all of their options for a single 2 GB stick of RAM that will work with yours. Also, make sure that your version of Windows is actually 64-bit Windows cause if you get more than 4 gigs of RAM, anything above that on 32-bit Windows is actually useless. Unfortunately this requires formatting your computer if you don't already have it because I don't think you can do upgrades from 32-bit to 64-bit, but I've been wrong before.

Awesome, thanks a lot! And yes, I am positive I have the 64 bit version of Windows 7, so I assume it will be worth it to make the jump to 6 gigs. I know I wont see any huge major improvements, but I figure when you can guy a stick of RAM for 15 dollars, why not?

[magus113]

Awesome, thanks a lot! And yes, I am positive I have the 64 bit version of Windows 7, so I assume it will be worth it to make the jump to 6 gigs. I know I wont see any huge major improvements, but I figure when you can guy a stick of RAM for 15 dollars, why not?

For that you might as well go all out and buy two for 30. 8 jiggers of massive COMPUTING POWER

[Professor S]

Oh, the new PC is awesome by the way... :D