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View Full Version : Is the Golden Age of RPG done?


BreakABone
07-19-2011, 12:40 PM
This has been a notion among gamers for most of this generation, but recently with Nintendo choosing not to bring over 3 of their key jRPGs franchises, it seems like the gaming world as a whole has woken up to the belief.

Here is an article from 1up.com

It's over. It no longer makes economic sense to bring most Japanese titles over to the west -- particularly RPGs. Sure, the Konamis and the Capcoms of the world will keep putting out their AAA titles, but the industry is heading back to a state more like the mid-'90s where JRPGs are few, quirky and charming titles are left untranslated, and fans of Japanese developers are left to beg publishers in vain for their most anticipated games.

The recent grassroots attempt to persuade Nintendo to bring over Xenoblade, Pandora's Tower, and The Last Story to America or the west will likely fail to persuade decision makers at the company because they understand the business reality. Localizing a Japanese game and releasing it at retail is an expensive undertaking, and industry forces, including piracy, changing gamer tastes, and platform owner licensing rules have rendered it an unprofitable one. A few specialty publishers who are very good at dealing with Japanese games remain, but even they have cut back on releases in recent years.


Just a few years ago, it seemed like any game that did reasonably well in Japan would find a home in Europe and America. Strategy RPGs, rougelikes, and games from every other niche genre in Japan filled the release calendars. Fans could take it for granted that most anticipated titles would eventually find their way out of Japan. While not every title made the trip westward --Mother 3 and Namco X Capcom were conspicuous in their absence -- most games of note did. Compare that to today: while the PSP continues to be the platform of choice for hardcore gamers in Japan, the system is effectively dead elsewhere in the world. Nintendo is holding back three separate hardcore Wii titles, while the number of games that Japan-focused publishers like NIS or Atlus release each year is steadily dropping.

"A lot of variables have to fall into place on each and every game as any number of factors can instantly kill a publishing deal," says Ken Berry, Director of Publishing at Xseed Games, a publisher that specializes in Japanese titles. "Factors including the game's quality as determined by our staff, the cost (both to license and to localize), and the projected sales volume, all influence the games the Xseed publishes. As passionate as we are about licensing good games, we can't knowingly go into a project that is likely to lose money, no matter how great the game may be."


A number of factors have reduced viability of niche Japanese titles, piracy being chief among them. As the west turned to HD console games at the beginning of the current console cycle, Japanese gamers both hardcore and casual turned to handhelds. Nearly all major Japanese RPG developers stuck to PSP/PS2-level hardware. At the same time, PSP piracy began eating into sales in America and Europe. By the time the Monster Hunter craze took off in 2008, piracy made it nearly impossible to release a viable game on the platform outside of Japan. Meanwhile, the popularity of R4 flash carts and stolen ROMs on the DS exploded amongst Japanese consumers. Stores in Akihabara and other major Japanese retail districts sold and advertised the devices openly. With PSP piracy low in Japan and DS piracy sky-high, and both rampant abroad, developers made the logical choice and pushed PSP games even harder, given that the domestic market was their priority.

The situation is even worse today, but piracy alone isn't to blame. It's merely eaten into an already slim profit margin that was under strain from distribution costs. "The realities of producing and shipping physical goods has definitely had an impact on our ability to take chances on smaller, niche titles for platforms such as Nintendo DS, Nintendo Wii, and PSP. It's especially dire for the DS, if only because there is a multitude of interesting titles in Japan that will likely never find their way stateside," says former 1UP editor and current Director of Business Development at Ignition Entertainment, Shane Bettenhausen.



This is the first of 3 pages, won't copy it all, they deserve some hits, but thoughts?
http://www.1up.com/features/golden-age-jrpgs-xenoblade-pandora-tower-last-story-xseed

magus113
07-19-2011, 01:08 PM
I think the golden age of RPGs ended somewhere in the PS2 era, maybe more towards the end but I'm not sure. Aside from Final Fantasy XII there weren't many PS2 RPGs I've played. I know there's Valkyrie Profile 2, and Rogue Galaxy to name as few as well as Atlus's Shin Megami Tensei games. I plan to get Persona 4 at some point in the future so we'll see how that goes.

I had read in an unrelated article about how there was a lot of creativity when there were limitations on what you could do. That isn't to say that you're able to do anything you want on current consoles, but it definitely feels like they've set the bar much higher for limitations now. The SNES was a great way to give people nice graphics (although dated by today's standards, but yet we still see games utilizing sprites in the style of 16-bit games) and still give them limitations. The PSX era was definitely an improvement but there's things like space limitations with CDs as far as FMVs and audio goes, although I think FMVs are where things started to go wrong. It started a trend of making things flashier so that people could maintain (I guess) more of an interest in what was going on in the game thanks to portions of the game that may have had more dialog than others.

It's hard to market RPGs now in an American market that's catering more to first person shooters thanks to the ideas of hardcore and casual gamers and more people in general moving into gaming as a hobby or lifestyle.

Ginkasa
07-19-2011, 02:53 PM
Its maybe the end of the "jRPG" era, but I think western RPGs have more than made up the difference.

BreakABone
07-19-2011, 03:33 PM
Its maybe the end of the "jRPG" era, but I think western RPGs have more than made up the difference.

I don't think so in terms of relevance and importance to the industry.

Mass Effect which is perhaps one of the biggest, gained more success/exposure when it pretty much dumped all the RPG elements in 2 for a more shooter esque experience.

I've heard a lot of complaints about how BioWare dumbed down Dragon Age 2 for the console audience.

And honestly, nothing has really matched the sales of the Final Fantasy series at its peak.

magus113
07-19-2011, 03:40 PM
Its maybe the end of the "jRPG" era, but I think western RPGs have more than made up the difference.

That may be true, but I think the big problem is figuring out why exactly the jRPG is dwindling. What is it about Western RPGs that are seemingly more appealing to gamers here in America? It can't be the setting. There have been plenty of Western sci-fi, and fantasy (or combinations of the two) RPGs, so it's not the genre. Is it the storytelling? People started being more concerned with the stories the games told probably because of the jRPG in the first place. Now we have linear jRPGs with big blockbuster production and storylines (for better or worse) that are sometimes intricate, sometimes...pretty boring.

Hideo Kojima mentioned that in order to develop games for Western markets they need to have Western development teams...having Japanese developers make games for Western audiences causes a culture gap that isn't so easily traversed unless it's made for niche markets, case and point is Atlus and NiS. They localize lots of games that not everyone buys, and the people that do are in their target market, which according to Internet stereotypes are anime otaku, or weeaboos and the like.

I've never know people that play modern day first person shooters and action games to ever really play RPGs, either now or from previous generations, so maybe they need to try and find a way to create an RPG that these people will enjoy...but it's easier said than done. Final Fantasy XIII got rid of a lot of the fat that the genre had accumulated over the years, and it still didn't do well, for fans of the jRPG or fans of gaming in general.

Blix
07-19-2011, 11:49 PM
That may be true, but I think the big problem is figuring out why exactly the jRPG is dwindling. What is it about Western RPGs that are seemingly more appealing to gamers here in America? It can't be the setting. There have been plenty of Western sci-fi, and fantasy (or combinations of the two) RPGs, so it's not the genre. Is it the storytelling? People started being more concerned with the stories the games told probably because of the jRPG in the first place. Now we have linear jRPGs with big blockbuster production and storylines (for better or worse) that are sometimes intricate, sometimes...pretty boring.

Hideo Kojima mentioned that in order to develop games for Western markets they need to have Western development teams...having Japanese developers make games for Western audiences causes a culture gap that isn't so easily traversed unless it's made for niche markets, case and point is Atlus and NiS. They localize lots of games that not everyone buys, and the people that do are in their target market, which according to Internet stereotypes are anime otaku, or weeaboos and the like.

I've never know people that play modern day first person shooters and action games to ever really play RPGs, either now or from previous generations, so maybe they need to try and find a way to create an RPG that these people will enjoy...but it's easier said than done. Final Fantasy XIII got rid of a lot of the fat that the genre had accumulated over the years, and it still didn't do well, for fans of the jRPG or fans of gaming in general.
I've never been a huge rpg fan so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

I have read that many of the players nowadays don't like to read too much during their games. I think this could be part of the problem too. I remember talking to every character in Golden Sun whenever I reached a new village. It would help with the story development and add depth to the game but it took like half an hour to talk to everyone in town and get to know what was happening.

Also, people don't use their imagination as much as they used to. Anything that is not sci-fi or action oriented doesn't sell as good as action games. It's always a well established series selling well if it's too imaginative, Like Mario, Final Fantasy, Zelda and the like. Okami, Shadows of the Colossus, Beyon Good and Evil come to mind as games that didn't reach their expectations. I don't see people talking about games like Majin and the Forsaken Kingdom either.

Typhoid
07-20-2011, 10:15 PM
Its maybe the end of the "jRPG" era, but I think western RPGs have more than made up the difference.

That's what I was going to say.


Western RPG's are everywhere now. Nearly every game has to have an RPG element in it. Not to mention there are a lot of actual standard western RPG games. Hell, sports games even are half RPG's now. You can play as a person and 'level them up' through their career via XP. Even most FPS games have XP systems that make you level your character up/unlock boost slots/etc.

But I think the glory days of the J/RPG was up everything until 64 bits. When graphics became the main focus and gameplay took the backseat, (The developers who make) J/RPG's (seem to have) lost track of what made them fun.


But RPG's are still going solidly.
Fallout, Borderlands, Mass Effect, Star Ocean, Dragon Age, Neverwinter Nights, Fable, Marvel Ultimate Alliance, Dragon Quest.