Nintendo at E3 2011

[BreakABone]

So we are just about 5 weeks shy from the start of e3, which means we are about to hit prime time for rumors and reveals and leaks.

So for the month or so before the big show, thought it would be nice to have threads detailing the big 3 going into the conference. What we know, what is rumored, what we can expect and more.

Finally, we come to Nintendo who probably has the most balls to juggle at this year's e3. They've already announced plans for their next gen console, but that's not until next year. They need to prove to their audience that the Wii is still viable for another year. And if that wasn't enough, they just launched a handheld that has been off to a rocky start.
http://www.gamesonsmash.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/nintendo-logo.jpg

Time: 9am PSt/12PM EST
Date: Tues June 7th, 2011[b]


[b]What We Know
Zelda: Skyward Sword, right now remains as probably the only Wii game that matters this year. Sure they announced Wii Play Motion and some mystery title, but neither will be a blimp on the radar. And the question a lot of people are asking is does Zelda remain on the Wii?

Mario, Zelda, Mario Kart, Kid Icarus and so much more are primed and ready to roll out on the 3DS at some point. While Zelda most likely won't be a focus (it comes out a week after the show), we will get the first real look at Super MArio 3DS and Mario Kart 3ds. There are still projects from last e3 that have never surfaced so look out for Metal Gear Solid 3DS.

Project Cafe/Stream/Feel, whatever. We know Nintendo is working on a next-gen console. We know it is set to debut at e3. We know it will be playable. And there are a ton of rumored specs, but we know the console will have a big impact on their show.

What Is Rumored
Its hard to discern fact from fiction when it comes to Nintendo and with the hype of a new console around the corner, there are all manner of rumors. I won't waste my breath stating them all especially since we have a Project Cafe rumor thread already on the forum.

Nothing really is said for the 3DS or the Wii (though that is to be expected)

What We Can Expect
Nintendo to roll out a line-up of Wii games headlined by Skyward Sword. Most likely than not, these titles will be localizations of some of their Japanese titles including Xenoblade, The Last Story and Pandora's Tower. There will be a scatter of 3rd party titles probably headlined by a new Rabbids and Just Dance game from Ubi Soft.

Nintendo will have to assure their audience that the 3DS means business so expect solid information on all the games above and release dates. I would expect a major 3rd party announcement or two.

Project Cafe will most likely play home to a ton of current gen ports, which will probably make up the console's first year. So expect Nintendo to roll out at least one major franchise that has never been on their console before or is returning. Then you can expect to see the usual assortment of first party titles. Though curious who will kick it off if Zelda remains on Wii and we just had a Metroid/Mario game in the last year.

Developers

1st party
EAD Comprehensive - making Star Fox 3DS
EAD 1 - recently made Nintendogs and now making Mario Kart 3DS
EAD 2 - making Wii Play Motion
EAD 3 - making Zelda Skyward Sword
EAD 4 - making Pikmin 3
EAD 5 - recently released Steel Driver
Tokyo - making Super Mario 3DS
NST - recently released Mario vs DK miniland mayhem
Monolith - recently released Xenoblade
NSD - last game released was Brain Age Express for DSiware
Retro - rumored to be making WiiHD game
Browny Brown - last game released was A Kappas Tail for DSiWare
Intelligent Studios - making Paper Mario 3DS
Project Sora - making Kid Icarus
Hal - making Kirby Wii and Kirby DS

3rd party
AlphaDream - last game was Mario and Luigi Inside Story
Creatures - usually make Pokemon Rangers games
Ganbarion - making Pandora's Tower
Camelot - recently released Golden Sun Dark Dawn
Genius Sonority - rumored to be making Pokemon XD port for 3DS
Good-feel - recently released Kirby Epic Yarn
Monster Games - recently made PilotWings Resort
Noise - make Custom Robo games
Skip Ltd - usually make Chibi Robo and Art Style games
Treasure - making radiant Silvergun for XBLA
GameFreak - making next Pokemon games

[Blix]

For the first time in a long time I'll be looking forward to this E3 presentation. On a couple of the last E3's I've just heard the news after they're out but I had not really bothered to check it out while it's happening.

[BreakABone]

Question of the week.

How much time should Nintendo spend on the Wii? Do they need to assure fans that the system is worth investing in over the next year + until the release of Project Cafe? What do they need to announce for it?

[Typhoid]

How much time should Nintendo spend on the Wii? Do they need to assure fans that the system is worth investing in over the next year + until the release of Project Cafe? What do they need to announce for it?

Nintendo will do what Nintendo does best - plug the shit out of Mario-something and a new Zelda game, while telling people how revolutionary their next 'big thing' is, and to 'just wait'.


I see absolutely 0 point in owning a Wii anymore. Not for people who aren't mothers playing Wii Sports resort while they wait for their Farmville stuff to grow, or toddlers playing some really dumb, horrible game while their mother plays Farmville. But now, even with Kinect and Sony Move - there is less reason for new parents to get their toddlers a Wii. Considering with a PS3 you also get a blu-ray player, and with a 360 you get all the FPS games it offers.

If the PS3 and 360 are really cool clothing ensembles, the Wii would be a pair of corduroy slacks that are too short.

[Angrist]

I have to admit that even I feel like the Wii is pretty dead. I want to play Zelda and there are some games that I never picked up because I felt they didn't deserve full price. So I hope to be playing DKC, Kirby, Paper Mario etc. some day. Possibly on the next Nintendo. My Wii disc drive broke down and I don't know if it's worth the money to replace it.

[Jason1]

I just want to see what nintendo can do with the higher specs. It would be really awesome to see some of their flagship games running in High Definition with true Next-gen graphics.

[Vampyr]

HD Ocarina of Time remake?

The awesome thing is you know it will happen.

[Angrist]

Ugh, please NO MORE OOT REMAKES! I've already played that game too many times.

[Blix]

Ugh, please NO MORE OOT REMAKES! I've already played that game too many times.

I agree and for the same reason. I love the game but I don't want another re-release.

[Vampyr]

Nobody's making you buy it, don't ruin it for the rest of us. :mad:

I'd be quite happy to play an HD OoT.

[Angrist]

Would you rather have another OoT remake than a completely new Zelda?

[Vampyr]

Would you rather have another OoT remake than a completely new Zelda?

I don't think it's an either or decision. I'm pretty sure the team that remakes OoT in HD isn't the team that will be working on a completely new Zelda. It requires totally different skill sets.

And even if it were an either or...an HD OoT that I can play on my 37" LCD sounds so amazing to me. One of my main gripes with Wii games are how jaggy and just plain bad they look on my TV - it's distracting.

Being able to play a crisp and clean looking version of my favorite game would be great.

[Angrist]

I wish Nintendo could really do 3 Zelda games at the same time, at full speed. But I'm prettu sure it doesn't work like that. Teams help each other. And I doubt they have enough times to do a console, a handheld and a remake version.

So you want HD Zelda... It's probably on the way. And for most people it will be much better than OoT in HD.

[Seth]

Nintendo will do what Nintendo does best - plug the shit out of Mario-something and a new Zelda game, while telling people how revolutionary their next 'big thing' is, and to 'just wait'.


I see absolutely 0 point in owning a Wii anymore. Not for people who aren't mothers playing Wii Sports resort while they wait for their Farmville stuff to grow, or toddlers playing some really dumb, horrible game while their mother plays Farmville. But now, even with Kinect and Sony Move - there is less reason for new parents to get their toddlers a Wii. Considering with a PS3 you also get a blu-ray player, and with a 360 you get all the FPS games it offers.

If the PS3 and 360 are really cool clothing ensembles, the Wii would be a pair of corduroy slacks that are too short.
until you do a soft something to your wii and it plays everything from ogg to .rmvb

:) who knew that one of the best media players is on the wii. I hadnt played my wii for about a year...then my buddy helped me through the ècustomizationè of it. I was suprised how many home dev apps are available.

[Angrist]

SO AWESOME!!!

[thatmariolover]

Eh, I thought it was a pretty piddly presentation compared to what the rumors suggested.

Hardly any actual games shown off, no mention of specs, no release date, no controller price. Really a whole lot of nothing.

[BreakABone]

Eh, I thought it was a pretty piddly presentation compared to what the rumors suggested.

Hardly any actual games shown off, no mention of specs, no release date, no controller price. Really a whole lot of nothing.

I didn't expect the last 3 things.

I can't think of a single console that has been revealed and given a price/release date on the same day.

The games did surprise me, not even any on stage demos of games, and a lack of focus on 3rd parties really.

[thatmariolover]

I was frankly a little insulted they teased us with realtime Zelda footage again. The last time they showed us realtime footage of Zelda and said 'this is what it could look like' was at Space World in 2000 and they never delivered.

[Ginkasa]

That wasn't "real time" footage in 2000. It was pre-rendered. Its a different situation, anyway.

[thatmariolover]

That wasn't "real time" footage in 2000. It was pre-rendered. Its a different situation, anyway.

You're right, I misspoke. But I disagree, situation is very much the same?

[Ginkasa]

You're right, I misspoke. But I disagree, situation is very much the same?


What's the same about it? They showed Zelda footage without actually announcing a specific game? Okay, sure. But the surrounding environment is different. We're not coming off the widely considered "greatest game of all time" and its follow-up. We do have a console Zelda game still waiting to be released. We've seen more than just the "realistic" style of Zelda graphics.

Besides, you're judging Nintendo now based on something that happened over 10 years ago.

[Vampyr]

Ok, so I haven't watched the press conference yet. I'm at work, and I have it recording at home. However, I did find this thread on Reddit:

http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/htwfy/new_nintendo_console_wii_u_fact_sheet/

Just from looking at this, I can't see how this a disappointment of any kind. The console is small and at least decently powerful. It has HD, which is the big thing.

The controller actually looks really awesome, to me. I'm just overjoyed they're moving away from motion - I can see them doing some really fun and interesting things with this set up. Screen may be large and clunky, but I find that superior to small and hard to see and use.

And, sweet crap, look at that third party support list. Batman, Battlefield, Darksiders, Ninja Gaiden, Assassin's Creed?!

[Bond]

How will you be able to play a FPS with that controller?

[Ginkasa]

Very carefully?

Seriously, how wouldn't you? It has triggers and everything. There's just a giant screen in the middle.

[BreakABone]

How will you be able to play a FPS with that controller?

The same way you play with any controller?

Has the same button layout.

http://h5.abload.de/img/untitled-1h886.jpg

http://i55.tinypic.com/ej9afq.jpg
http://i54.tinypic.com/whmasi.jpg

[Ginkasa]

Hey, its my new desktop.

[thatmariolover]

I just didn't want to see a 'current gen' console 6 years after the fact. But it was the same with the Wii so I don't know why I should be surprised.

The controller/console gameplay concept isn't even original, though. It's been around on the Gamecube since Four Swords and Pac Man Versus.

[Vampyr]

I just didn't want to see a 'current gen' console 6 years after the fact. But it was the same with the Wii so I don't know why I should be surprised.

The controller/console gameplay concept isn't even original, though. It's been around on the Gamecube since Four Swords and Pac Man Versus.

Motion controls weren't new either. Difference is that a console hasn't been built around the concept.

I would have liked to see a more powerful system as well, but I guess that's the price you pay in order to pay a lower price.

[Angrist]

When did Nintendo ever use completely new technology?
Glasses-free 3D, touch screen, motion control... it had all been done before.
Now they combine a powerful machine with a controller, a touch tablet, motion control... and they create new experiences with it.
Just like they've always done. I like it, much more than I anticipated.

I guess you just had too high expectations...

[BreakABone]

<iframe width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/IUJFNpPVtbE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Best look at the controller/tech

[Angrist]

Nice video.

Also some more info:
- 3rd party footage was actually PS360 footage
- single touch screen

At the moment the question is whether multiple controllers will work on 1 Wii U.

[KillerGremlin]

That controller is fucking huge. That is my only concern. Otherwise cool cool I look forward to its potential. And I already wrote this thing off for FPS, so I won't even ask.

I should clarify my strange, new found optimism. I look forward to its potential relative to the Wii and the Kinect and the Sony Anal Wand. See, Nintendo already jumped the shark in my book for any FPS games or games with serious graphical prowl. So now we have 1st party rehash titles with fancy new gimmicks. I also like the idea that I can take my controller with me when I go take a shit. This way I can keep waggling while I drop a deuce. Or I can continue to waggle while I waggle...and there is even a webcam so I can expose little kids while I masturbate.


What is really exciting is that this shit is like the NES of touchscreens and the future. 20 years from now when our houses come integrated with 40-touch screens, and there are holograms, and things like that, we are going to look back at the Wii and laugh because it is like Pong. But at the current point in time, I maintain that the PS2, Xbox 360, and Cube controller usurp any of the current controllers. I also still take preference to my Mouse and Keyboard.

[BreakABone]

For the life of me don't understand the FPS comments, is it just a size thing?

Has dual analogs (though think a step back), 4 face buttons, 2 shoulders, 2 triggers, so all that's needed to handle any modern console shooter.

[Angrist]

I'd rather use the Wiimote to play first person games. I don't see myself ever playing one of those with dual analog again.

I just hope that it offers enough new stuff for core gamers. If all they like is graphics, then they might never move beyond their PS360 until the PS4π comes out. Maaaybe enough exclusives will make them jump in.

Edit: Aliens: Colonial Marines is going to be epic with the motion sensor on the touch screen!!
But even with that, I'd rather keep that thing lying on my lap and control the game with the Wiimote+chuck.

[thatmariolover]

The biggest thing I want to know is whether or not Gamecube and Wii games will be upconverted or if they're going to make us pay for HD remakes.

[Angrist]

Oh, I just read that the motion control of the Utroller is very precise... sounds like a good alternative to Wii's IR aiming!!

Also, they say the controller is really light and comfortable.

[KillerGremlin]

Also, they say the controller is really light and comfortable.

I wouldn't put it past the Nintendo engineers to run long tests...but I don't trust anyone who uses the controller for less than 30 minutes. I want to hear some testimony after gaming for 3+ hours or something, or a fairly normal serious gaming session.

[KillerGremlin]

For the life of me don't understand the FPS comments, is it just a size thing?

Has dual analogs (though think a step back), 4 face buttons, 2 shoulders, 2 triggers, so all that's needed to handle any modern console shooter.

The size is my main concern. But mostly what I mean when I say "I already wrote this thing off for FPS" is that most FPS games are designed with two things in mind:

1) the ability to be ported across platforms
2) having an awesome engine

I'm concerned (just as I was with the Wii and Cube, and those concerns were indeed met) that this new console will fail to meet requirement 1. Requirement 2 is also a big deal, and you can sit here and tell me that graphics aren't the end-all, be-all anymore. And I would agree. But graphic-moderate engines, like the Source engine, still capitalize on processing power to turn out realistic physics and things like that. You could argue that the history of FPS engines is just as rich in terms of the way processing power is utilized and the way increased interaction with the environment is increased vs. just looks. Even going back to Doom, and ID Software's innovative use of creating 3D maps and adding depth to the game with things like height.

I'm not a programmer, so I would summon Gekko to comment on why Nintendo isn't really FPS-friendly.

I like where Nintendo is going with the social aspect though, I think it is really really cool. And sarcasm aside, I hope Nintendo is really ready to embrace online gaming. Because online gaming on the Wii was about as pleasant as getting a coat hangar abortion.

[BreakABone]

The size is my main concern. But mostly what I mean when I say "I already wrote this thing off for FPS" is that most FPS games are designed with two things in mind:

1) the ability to be ported across platforms
2) having an awesome engine

I'm concerned (just as I was with the Wii and Cube, and those concerns were indeed met) that this new console will fail to meet requirement 1. Requirement 2 is also a big deal, and you can sit here and tell me that graphics aren't the end-all, be-all anymore. And I would agree. But graphic-moderate engines, like the Source engine, still capitalize on processing power to turn out realistic physics and things like that. You could argue that the history of FPS engines is just as rich in terms of the way processing power is utilized and the way increased interaction with the environment is increased vs. just looks. Even going back to Doom, and ID Software's innovative use of creating 3D maps and adding depth to the game with things like height.

I'm not a programmer, so I would summon Gekko to comment on why Nintendo isn't really FPS-friendly.

I like where Nintendo is going with the social aspect though, I think it is really really cool. And sarcasm aside, I hope Nintendo is really ready to embrace online gaming. Because online gaming on the Wii was about as pleasant as getting a coat hangar abortion.

1) Won't be an immediate problem, for the first year or two will be sharing games with the Ps3 and 360 which it is close to on power levels.

2) We already have confirmation that the Unreal engine 3 will come over to the console since both Batman Arkham City and Aliens Colonial Marines run on the engine, and Epic Games confirmed it for Aliens.

Then there's EA already hinting at bringing the Frostbite engine over with Battlefield 3, and I don't think they will have as much problem getting ports/same day releases of major FPSes.

I think their new problem going forward is having an online service worth a damn, and convincing people to buy their version of the game over the PS3 and 360.

[Ginkasa]

The biggest thing I want to know is whether or not Gamecube and Wii games will be upconverted or if they're going to make us pay for HD remakes.


I haven't heard anything official that states the Wii U will be compatible with GCN games at all. Also, in an interview with GameTrailers, Reggie said Wii games would not be upconverted. He didn't state anything regarding any HD remakes/re-releases.

[Teuthida]

I don't get it. Everyone hated the GBA/Gamecube connectivity and now several years later they do the same thing and everyone loves it? Well ok...

[Ginkasa]

The difference, IMO, is that the connectivity is an integral part of the console. Its integrated directly into the console's controller. You don't have to buy a separate handheld and special cables to get it going. Also, since it is an integral part of the console, hopefully it will be used more and in more exciting ways than the GBA/GCN connectivity was.

Its all in the execution and the potential.

[Blix]

I just bought Crysis 2 five days ago and was very happy to find out that my two years graphics card (Radeon HD 4890) can handle the game on high settings and true 1080. The Wii U's gpu is supposedly based on a newer, better gpu so I don't share your worries, guys. Also, I'm reading too many things based on speculation and stated as facts in this thread. Paying less? Current generation graphics? Nintendo just teased us. They didn't even mention a price range or specs. And the only two demos were a bird flying around and a Zelda fight scene running in real time with the user changing the lighting and moving the camera. I don't think either of them had too much time put into them. If it only runs in true 1080 then the system is already doing better than current generation consoles. I think some people were just expecting a 12 core processor, 8GB of ram, Either a 580 or 6970 for gpu and more flashy specs. But then if Nintendo delivered that, who knows.... they might be upset about the price, like many were with the PS3. I don't care so much about graphics anymore, it all looks just as good to me now. I'm glad Nintendo is trying to find a way to expand games rather than just with specs. And the ideas looked interesting.

Now... the real question that everyone should be asking themselves: How much is that freaking controller going to cost?:confused:

[Vampyr]

I don't see any reason this won't be able to run FPS' just as good as any other machine.

[BreakABone]

I don't see any reason this won't be able to run FPS' just as good as any other machine.

Yeah we already have, what 3-4 of them announced? And several big name ones, has to best the Wii already.

<iframe width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/GN7vwti5RyA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

And here's a TPS being played on the console

[Vampyr]

Okay, I finally got around to watching the conference.

Holy crap, I can't believe some people were complaining and not impressed by this. I think that my statement that Nintendo would dominate Sony and Microsoft has absolutely come true.

They showed so much footage of what the controller/console could do. The ability for the console to stream the content to the controller screen was enough alone to blow me away - but there were so many other ways that they could interact. Then they ran through all the promised third party games, and announced a Smash Bros for 3DS & Wii U...

Yeah, the Nintendo conference made this E3 not suck. I'm ready to buy this thing right now. :)

edit: That video looks great. I can think of so many great uses for the controller screen. It looks like the guy in the video used it as a heli-cam to check out the enemies location before moving in. Could also use it to navigate a robot bomb.

[Storm Eagle]

So the new Nintendo system will be called the Wii U. I'll have to agree that it's not the best name in the world, but of course, as long as it has games that I'd want, I won't mind having one. Though I must say, that controller is a behemoth. The lack of backwards compatibility for GameCube games isn't really a problem for me though (if it does lack that kind of backwards compatibility), since I still have my GameCube hooked up, and that's all because I have a Game Boy Player.

I have to admit though, that I'm a bit concerned about Nintendo jumping right into the next generation before their competitors. I think this is more or less a first for them. They usually wait for their competitors to make the first move, and then put out a new system later that's somewhat of an improvement over its predecessor(s). They might end up pushing back the release of the Wii U from 2012, and I think I'd actually be okay with that.

The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword is now being pushed towards a holiday release for this year. Fine with me. The less I punish my wallet, the better. Though I hope it doesn't get pushed back farther than that, or just saved for a Wii U release.

So, one of the big surprises for the 25th anniversary of The Legend of Zelda is a free soundtrack CD that I can only get by registering a copy of Ocarina of Time 3D, but I can just pass on that. I've already imported the Ocarina of Time (N64 of course) soundtrack from Japan, and it's a complete soundtrack, which I'm concerned the free one probably won't be. Plus I still don't have a 3DS, nor do I see myself having one any time this year. Though I am interested in that CD based on the Zelda 25th Anniversary symphony concerts which was said to be released in conjunction with Skyward Sword. At least I've got the system to play that (I think, I hope).

[gekko]

I'd actually be surprised if there isn't backwards compatibility with the Gamecube. The Wii basically is the Gamecube in a new box, which is why it could do backwards compatibility on hardware. If the Wii U is backwards compatible with the Wii, I see no reason why it shouldn't support the Gamecube as well, unless they do software emulation.

In all honesty, the backwards compatibility concerns me that the hardware in this thing really is pretty lackluster. Also not announcing the specs makes me think they are hiding something, and I fully expect they are.

Overall, not impressed at all with the Wii U at the moment.

[Vampyr]

The gameplay that's being shown looks good enough for me. If I can play Zelda, Mario, etc, and have it look like that, I'll be satisfied. As long as it's hitting that HD resolution.

I imagine the next generation of consoles is going to be much like this one for me: get the Wii U and the next Xbox. Only this time I think I'm actually going to play the Wii.

edit: It looks like the Wii U will not have upscaling. Damn.

[Blix]

The gameplay that's being shown looks good enough for me. If I can play Zelda, Mario, etc, and have it look like that, I'll be satisfied. As long as it's hitting that HD resolution.

I imagine the next generation of consoles is going to be much like this one for me: get the Wii U and the next Xbox. Only this time I think I'm actually going to play the Wii.

edit: It looks like the Wii U will not have upscaling. Damn.
Yeah, that was disappointing. I was really looking forward to that as I wanted to see some of the current games running in 1080. I hope they change that before it comes out.

[Bond]

Does anyone have a theory as to why the new console won't upscale? Is it a technically difficult task to perform?

[Vampyr]

Does anyone have a theory as to why the new console won't upscale? Is it a technically difficult task to perform?

I'm no expert, but I thought the process of upscaling was a simple algorithm of taking two pixels and averaging them out and putting another pixel in between.

The really cynical side of me wants to say that it's because they want to resell HD versions of old Wii games. >_>

[BreakABone]

I'm no expert, but I thought the process of upscaling was a simple algorithm of taking two pixels and averaging them out and putting another pixel in between.

The really cynical side of me wants to say that it's because they want to resell HD versions of old Wii games. >_>

Being BC didn't stop em from re-selling Pikmin and other games.

And sadly HD remakes seem to be the in-thing now. I think the movement is awful, but people get excited for it. Meh

<iframe width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/6OHUwDShrD4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Jason1]

I am pretty impressed with everything overall. Just the fact that nintendo is finally going HD is great, although I guess they pretty much have to now. Zelda demo looks impressive. And I am liking how skyward sword seems to be shaping up also.

[gekko]

I'm no expert, but I thought the process of upscaling was a simple algorithm of taking two pixels and averaging them out and putting another pixel in between.

The really cynical side of me wants to say that it's because they want to resell HD versions of old Wii games. >_>

That is the simplest algorithm (once extended to 2D), but the ones actually used are a bit more complicated. But most likely they would upscale in hardware, and not software.

But in all reality, if you're playing on a fixed-resolution display (any non-CRT basically), your TV will be upscaling the image anyway. Why it's not doing it is beyond me, but it's not like an upscaled Wii game is going to magically look better.

[Angrist]

What about those emulated Wii games that look 2x better?

[gekko]

I didn't even know there was a Wii emulator. But it doesn't really matter. It's impossible, now, and forever in the future, to upscale an image and make it "better".

Take the example of a 4x4 square, make it a black and white checkerboard. To reduce that down to a single pixel you would all expect the colors to average out to some shade of gray. Now let's go the other way, start with a single gray pixel and upscale it to 4x4. What does it look like? Is it four gray pixels? Our black and white checkerboard? Any other of the many combinations of 4 pixels which average to the exact same color? It's impossible to tell.

Now, I won't say there aren't some really good ways to guess. Photoshop CS5 has a fantastic tool which can do just that, but it's still a complete guess. Those tend to take a much larger area and assume things. For example, if the entire bottom of the image is covered in this green stuff, then maybe the big hole you are trying to fill should contain similar shades and patterns, etc. The problem is these all break down in certain cases, and there is no generic algorithm that works perfectly.

The problem is when you go up in resolution you should increase the detail, and while you can guess at the missing colors, you can never add the detail which would be missing. If there was a human arm, you may be able to guess at the proper skin tone in the missing pixels, but you will never get the pores, or the hairs. Or think about all the small detail which would be seen in a 1080p picture of concrete, you maybe can match color, but going from 640x480 to 1920x1080 is never going to get you that detail, no matter how hard you try.

Now, my best guess as to why the Wii emulator looks better is post-processing of the scene. I would assume they perform some form of aliasing to reduce the jaggies on the image and make everything look smoother. Besides, your eyes can play tricks on you. It's the reason why screens in retail are so bright, because people think they look better and it sells TVs. It's the same reason why volume is used to sell speakers, because if they are the loudest in the store, they must be the best. Look at the images closely and you will most likely they are the exact same, if not a bit smoother (AA as I said before). But no matter how hard you try, you can't add detail.

[thatmariolover]

I didn't even know there was a Wii emulator. But it doesn't really matter. It's impossible, now, and forever in the future, to upscale an image and make it "better".

Take the example of a 4x4 square, make it a black and white checkerboard. To reduce that down to a single pixel you would all expect the colors to average out to some shade of gray. Now let's go the other way, start with a single gray pixel and upscale it to 4x4. What does it look like? Is it four gray pixels? Our black and white checkerboard? Any other of the many combinations of 4 pixels which average to the exact same color? It's impossible to tell.

Now, I won't say there aren't some really good ways to guess. Photoshop CS5 has a fantastic tool which can do just that, but it's still a complete guess. Those tend to take a much larger area and assume things. For example, if the entire bottom of the image is covered in this green stuff, then maybe the big hole you are trying to fill should contain similar shades and patterns, etc. The problem is these all break down in certain cases, and there is no generic algorithm that works perfectly.

The problem is when you go up in resolution you should increase the detail, and while you can guess at the missing colors, you can never add the detail which would be missing. If there was a human arm, you may be able to guess at the proper skin tone in the missing pixels, but you will never get the pores, or the hairs. Or think about all the small detail which would be seen in a 1080p picture of concrete, you maybe can match color, but going from 640x480 to 1920x1080 is never going to get you that detail, no matter how hard you try.

Now, my best guess as to why the Wii emulator looks better is post-processing of the scene. I would assume they perform some form of aliasing to reduce the jaggies on the image and make everything look smoother. Besides, your eyes can play tricks on you. It's the reason why screens in retail are so bright, because people think they look better and it sells TVs. It's the same reason why volume is used to sell speakers, because if they are the loudest in the store, they must be the best. Look at the images closely and you will most likely they are the exact same, if not a bit smoother (AA as I said before). But no matter how hard you try, you can't add detail.

Your first sentence is the problem. Games don't just consist of a series of images any more. They're a composite of rendered structures (polygonal models) with images applied to them (textures).

It's only the textures that need scaling. The Wii Emulator actually renders the scene in HD (Anti-Aliasing is also offered) and scales the textures. There's no reason the WiiU couldn't do the same thing, unless it's just got a Wii SoC and it's doing hardware emulation. Regardless, somebody's going to break this thing for homebrew and then somebody's going to port Dolphin over and that will be the end of it.

<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/3yiMZrAaWOw?version=3"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/3yiMZrAaWOw?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></object>

Semi-Related: Depixelizing Pixel Art - A new way to scale sprites really well.
http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/kopf/pixelart/

-------

In the end, though, it just comes down to money. Nintendo wants to continue selling Wii's through the WiiU's life cycle. It's the same reason they aren't doing Gamecube emulation. It has nothing to do with what the system can do, and everything to do with them wanting you to either buy the games for Wii, or buy an HD remake.

[gekko]

Wow, so they are trying to hook the calls to the graphics API and render it to a larger viewport? That would be possible, similar to DLL hooking. However, even doing that would either warp the image or you would be restricted to a uniform scale. Not sure how you would adjust the aspect ratio unless you tried to decompose the projection matrix and adjust the aspect ratio.

Regardless, I think you're forgetting that rendering at a different resolution isn't that easy. Well, it is as easy as adjusting the viewport and projection matrices, but you can't just do it automatically to existing games and expect it to work. Changing the resolution can cause many rendering artifacts with shadow mapping and others, as well as completely break any code which may be processing a full-screen texture on the CPU side. Artifacts may be acceptable for an illegal emulator, but I would imagine Nintendo wants to get these games to run as close to the original as possible.

I'm by no means an expert on what's possible to do with emulation, but I can't see this being possible for all cases. I imagine it's a bit easier since the Wii is fixed-function, but it seems way too easy to break.

[Typhoid]

While I sort of like the idea of the whole....ipad-controller-thing, I think it says a lot when their stock immediately dropped to a 5 year low or something hilarious like that.

Anyways, I think this will be what ruins Nintendo. To oversimplify it, it's sort of just a tablet you use in conjunction with your 'Wii'.

And I'm pretty sure Sony/Microsoft have tablets (If they don't, they should?), so it wouldn't be hard, or needlessly expensive for them to easily phase Nintendo out on this, aswell - just like they slowly tried to do with motion-gaming.

It seems like Nintendo is struggling for fringe ideas to sell consoles, but is sort of totally backing themselves into a corner as they do it. Since the other systems are making super-powerful systems, and simply biting off the gimmicks Nintendo brings, they'll no doubt continue to do this until even a new Nintendo system is immediately obsolete and a generation behind.

[Angrist]

Do you really think that?

Nintendo is building the whole console around this concept, and that's why it will work.
Sure, MS/Sony could launch some feature that lets you use a tablet. But it will just be another feature that nobody will use. Like the SIXAXIS. Or the Move. Like the AGB/GCN connectivity. If they're very lucky, in 4 years they'll have something that is as succesful as Kinect.

In fact, with the presentation of the PS3 (E3 2006?) Sony already showed you can use the PSP as a second screen for your PS3. Remember they used it as a rear mirror for some racing game? So the idea of a second, portable screen is quite old. Guess what, nobody used it. People have forgotten about it. Not because the idea wasn't good, but because it was poorly executed.

Now Nintendo has this great plan, has gotten developers on board and everybody is full of ideas. There's no way MS/Sony will catch up with them within 3 years. And when they do, it will just be another expansion... And the only expansion we've ever seen work is Kinect, and even that is very controversial.

I personally think that the graphical leap between this and the next gen will be smaller, or at least not so important. Yes, even if Wii U isn't (much) stronger than the PS360 (and we don't know that yet), the PS4/3602 will outclass it. But do you really think that's going to stop Nintendo and 3rd parties from making a load of awesome games?

We can bet it won't be as bad as Wii.

[KillerGremlin]

I do think it is odd that Nintendo is releasing a "catch-up" console at a sort of weird time so they can finally have HD graphics and the processing power to port/share 360 and PS3 games. It makes you wonder when Sony and Microsoft will unveil their next big things, and how much ahead they will be when they do.

We are going to need to see official specs....also, this new console hangs 100% on the success of online gaming. And, an added consideration is the fact that you will likely only be able to sync one of these tablets up to your Wii-U due to processing power limitations.

I still like the tech and think it has big potential, so I look forward to hearing news and the progression of this thing.

[BreakABone]

While I sort of like the idea of the whole....ipad-controller-thing, I think it says a lot when their stock immediately dropped to a 5 year low or something hilarious like that.
I would point out that, a 5 year low would mean the last time it was this low was after the reveal of the Wii, and we saw how that worked out.

And I believe historically, it has fallen after the reveal of the DS as well.

Anyways, I think this will be what ruins Nintendo. To oversimplify it, it's sort of just a tablet you use in conjunction with your 'Wii'.

And I'm pretty sure Sony/Microsoft have tablets (If they don't, they should?), so it wouldn't be hard, or needlessly expensive for them to easily phase Nintendo out on this, aswell - just like they slowly tried to do with motion-gaming.

It seems like Nintendo is struggling for fringe ideas to sell consoles, but is sort of totally backing themselves into a corner as they do it. Since the other systems are making super-powerful systems, and simply biting off the gimmicks Nintendo brings, they'll no doubt continue to do this until even a new Nintendo system is immediately obsolete and a generation behind.

I've seen it described on a podcast as the "console without an audience."
And I can kind of see that belief.
On paper, it isn't as simple and inviting as the Wii-mote was.
And it isn't a simple revision on the standard idea of a console for the "hardcore"
So its a console that tries to appease all, but really doesn't appeal to anyone in its current form.

I think as we get closer to launch and see key software and stuff, it will be easier to tell.
I mean even with the simplicity of the Wii controllers, if not for Wii Sports it would have never taken off the way that it did.
All they need is a solid software idea behind them.

And to answer your question, I'm fairly certain that neither MS nor Sony are in the tablet business ATM. Though Sony has comparable tech when you combine the PS3/PS Vita usage.

[Bond]

The 52WK range for Nintendo's stock (trading on the Tokyo Stock Exchange) is: 15,790 - 29,300 (in yens, of course). Current price of the stock is 16,390. So, in roughly a little over twelve months the stock has dropped by half.

http://www.google.com/finance?q=TYO:7974

Hard to say if that drop is directly or indirectly attributable to much of anything, but it is quite a drop.

[BreakABone]

The 52WK range for Nintendo's stock (trading on the Tokyo Stock Exchange) is: 15,790 - 29,300 (in yens, of course). Current price of the stock is 16,390. So, in roughly a little over twelve months the stock has dropped by half.

http://www.google.com/finance?q=TYO:7974

Hard to say if that drop is directly or indirectly attributable to much of anything, but it is quite a drop.

There are a ton of simple factors really
-The Wii has been in a steep decline for a while now. Sales are generally buoyed by the holidays and the occasional major release.
-The 3DS has had a less than spectacular launch reception. Selling under anticipation for the first 2-3 months.
-No major software released this year on either of their major consoles. Though they had Pokemon Black/White

[Typhoid]

Now Nintendo has this great plan, has gotten developers on board and everybody is full of ideas. There's no way MS/Sony will catch up with them within 3 years.

Really?
You don't think MS or Sony can make their new system (or port to a PS3/360, I suppose) compatable with a tablet - which everyone is all the rage about these days - meaning a lot of companies are probably already looking into ways to utilize a tablet in the best way for them - and you don't think they can do that in 3 years? :confused:


And this isn't like motion sensing, really. Because I'm sure a lot of the reason behind MS and Sony not doing it sooner is because they wanted to see how much demand their was for what types of motion games to even see if it's worth it.

With this tablet/system meshing thing, I'm not saying it's a bad idea. In fact I think it's a really cool idea if utilized properly. Seems really futuristic to me. All I was saying is that it is becoming easier and easier for Sony and Nintendo to slowly push Nintendo out of the majority of the market by taking their ideas, and utilizing them with their systems' power.

And in fact, both Sony and Microsoft already have tablets either in the market, or currently in development - and I'm pretty sure that (if demand is high enough) they could easily port to their current systems respectively, or include it (as they could with motion sensing) in their next console.

[Bond]

There are a ton of simple factors really
-The Wii has been in a steep decline for a while now. Sales are generally buoyed by the holidays and the occasional major release.
-The 3DS has had a less than spectacular launch reception. Selling under anticipation for the first 2-3 months.
-No major software released this year on either of their major consoles. Though they had Pokemon Black/White
Perhaps, but all of those tidbits could have already been factored into the stock price at that point in time ... it's a little more complicated.

[Angrist]

So apparently developers are saying the Wii U is 50% stronger than PS360.

Your thoughts?

[Bube]

Haven't really followed the Wii U stuff as it didn't get me that excited. Here are a few of my opinions.

Nintendo are still aiming for the casual, or to be more precise, the casual-hardcore market. The under-16 age group, the group that wants to play the serious games they're older brothers are playing, but still also have a part of them that are wowed by gimmicks; and the over 50 group, who look for that pick-up-and-play factor.

If you're a serious gamer, then you're looking for pure gaming. Not "let me press this button on my touchscreen and hide my character behind the bushes" or "another waggle of the controller will win me the game!".

I believe the correct way would've been what Sony is doing. Make the gimmick optional. Don't build everything around it.

And the fact that this mid-gen console is a next-gen release is another problem.

In a few years, we'll be seeing ports of last-wave PS3 and Xbox 360 (or "optimized" PS4 and Xbox 720) games, with "waggle-quality" tablet features. This is the optimistic option.

The pessimistic option will be what the Gamecube turned into.

BTW, correct me if I'm wrong but, hasn't Nintendo been saying that they have "strong 3rd party support" in every new console announcement since the N64 lost it's 3rd party support?

[manasecret]

Please... PS3 and X360 are for casual, wannabe gamers. True hardcore gamers who are "serious" and "looking for pure gaming" play on the PC.

/sarcasm

The casual vs. hardcore gamers is endlessly brought out by elitist gamers as if it's a good argument.

[gekko]

So apparently developers are saying the Wii U is 50% stronger than PS360.

Which developers? I haven't seen this news.

BTW, correct me if I'm wrong but, hasn't Nintendo been saying that they have "strong 3rd party support" in every new console announcement since the N64 lost it's 3rd party support?

Yes they have. People also tend to forget that while Gamecube had many 3rd party titles, many of those games were simply better on other platforms. PS3 had memory cards big enough to hold your Madden save, Xbox had a hard drive, better online, and the best graphics. It's the same thing with the Wii, are you really happy getting a COD4 port when everyone else is getting the sequel? Xbox owners are getting all COD DLC first, and they are playing on Live. The Wii may have it on paper, but you're using friend codes. Is that still considered "strong" 3rd party support?

[BreakABone]

Which developers? I haven't seen this news.



Yes they have. People also tend to forget that while Gamecube had many 3rd party titles, many of those games were simply better on other platforms. PS3 had memory cards big enough to hold your Madden save, Xbox had a hard drive, better online, and the best graphics. It's the same thing with the Wii, are you really happy getting a COD4 port when everyone else is getting the sequel? Xbox owners are getting all COD DLC first, and they are playing on Live. The Wii may have it on paper, but you're using friend codes. Is that still considered "strong" 3rd party support?

I think the difference between the Wii and Wii U (can't speak of the Cube yet since we don't know the PS4/Xbox 3 stance) is that Nintendo is showing it up front.

Granted, all we got so far are a handful of ports, but they are getting titles that have never graced a Nintendo console like Tekken, Assassin's Creed, they are getting an enhanced version of Ninja Gaiden 3.

Then there is the middleware, we already know that the console will be supported by Unreal Engine 3, Crytek CryEngine 3, whatever Ubisoft calls their Assassin's Creed engine, and all signs point to it being supported by the Frostbite 3 engine.

So even when the PS4/xbox 3 comes out, developers will have the tools in place to continue supporting it even if just with down ports.

[Bube]

Please... PS3 and X360 are for casual, wannabe gamers. True hardcore gamers who are "serious" and "looking for pure gaming" play on the PC.

/sarcasm

The casual vs. hardcore gamers is endlessly brought out by elitist gamers as if it's a good argument.
To be honest, when I say casual and hardcore, I really mean the people who played games in the N64/PSX era, or started playing after that. The Gamecube kinda split the community when it got labeled as "kiddy", and I think gave birth to the gamer we now call "casual". Then with the Wii, gaming became a pastime for (almost) everybody who could hold a remote, and thus the profile of games changed.

Nintendo are trying to introduce it's Wii playing population to the other side of gaming, and trying to win them over with what got them hooked on the Wii in the first place - a gimmick.

[thatmariolover]

Which developers? I haven't seen this news.



Yes they have. People also tend to forget that while Gamecube had many 3rd party titles, many of those games were simply better on other platforms. PS3 had memory cards big enough to hold your Madden save, Xbox had a hard drive, better online, and the best graphics. It's the same thing with the Wii, are you really happy getting a COD4 port when everyone else is getting the sequel? Xbox owners are getting all COD DLC first, and they are playing on Live. The Wii may have it on paper, but you're using friend codes. Is that still considered "strong" 3rd party support?

Well, historically I would agree. With each passing generation Nintendo has crippled the system in some fashion that makes 3rd party devs jump ship. With the N64 it was expensive cartridges and complex programming requirements. With the Gamecube it was 1.5 GB discs, lack of storage, Friend codes, and a purple case. The Wii didn't go HD and never had a high quality, dedicated core controller.

I can't say it will be different this time. But the bottom line is that Nintendo has addressed most of the key problem areas. Friend Codes are going away for a new Online service more in line with Live. The graphics are HD, though we have yet to see specs. Supposedly it's heavy on the RAM, which is something devs will love.

My biggest concern at this point is the lack of a core dedicated controller. I'm looking for something wireless, in between the Gamecube and classic controller.

[Angrist]

Why would you want another controller? You're afraid the U Pad will be too heavy or something?

[magus113]

Well, historically I would agree. With each passing generation Nintendo has crippled the system in some fashion that makes 3rd party devs jump ship. With the N64 it was expensive cartridges and complex programming requirements. With the Gamecube it was 1.5 GB discs, lack of storage, Friend codes, and a purple case. The Wii didn't go HD and never had a high quality, dedicated core controller.

I can't say it will be different this time. But the bottom line is that Nintendo has addressed most of the key problem areas. Friend Codes are going away for a new Online service more in line with Live. The graphics are HD, though we have yet to see specs. Supposedly it's heavy on the RAM, which is something devs will love.

My biggest concern at this point is the lack of a core dedicated controller. I'm looking for something wireless, in between the Gamecube and classic controller.

Supposedly it's rocking the last gen Radeon card for the GPU, which can mean anything really if it's supposedly better than the PS3 or Xbox 360 (although I don't think we've found out for sure by how much).

I'm also concerned that it seems to have only the proprietary video out and HDMI out, but what about people like me that don't have HDMI receivers and they need a fiber optic cable for surround sound?

[thatmariolover]

Why would you want another controller? You're afraid the U Pad will be too heavy or something?

I just think it's cumbersome. Even though it will probably be fine for a lot of games, I just don't see myself wanting to use it all of the time.

The other issue is that we don't know how many of the tablet controllers can be simultaneously connected to the WiiU. I'm not willing to put up with dongling a classic controller to a Wiimote every time I want to play a multiplayer game. And that will be your only choice, since you don't even have the option of using a Gamecube controller.

[Vampyr]

If you can only use one at once, I imagine the "standard" controller will be one you can purchase that is the same except without the screen in the middle.

Developers will need to develop around the Wii U controller's layout because that's what comes with the system.

[BreakABone]

I just think it's cumbersome. Even though it will probably be fine for a lot of games, I just don't see myself wanting to use it all of the time.

The other issue is that we don't know how many of the tablet controllers can be simultaneously connected to the WiiU. I'm not willing to put up with dongling a classic controller to a Wiimote every time I want to play a multiplayer game. And that will be your only choice, since you don't even have the option of using a Gamecube controller.

Right now the streaming to a single controller is my biggest pet peeve with the console really.

I'm curious though if gamers are willing to take a hit in graphics to achieve 4 player streaming content.

That said, it seems currently Nintendo is positioning this as a one Wii U tab, 4 Wii-Mote controller set-up. Which has potential, but really I think 4 Wii Us has to be done at some point.

[thatmariolover]

If you can only use one at once, I imagine the "standard" controller will be one you can purchase that is the same except without the screen in the middle.

Developers will need to develop around the Wii U controller's layout because that's what comes with the system.

That's what I'm envisioning as well. But Nintendo's been mum on the topic, so I think it's worth a mention as a potential problem.

[Vampyr]

That said, it seems currently Nintendo is positioning this as a one Wii U tab, 4 Wii-Mote controller set-up. Which has potential, but really I think 4 Wii Us has to be done at some point.

This seems like a really bad idea. There needs to be consistency with the controller setup. If you can't have 4 wii u's, you need 1 Wii U + 3 just without the screen. Make the Wii Mote setup optional.

[Angrist]

I remember reading talks about possibly 2 U Pads at once and that Nintendo just didn't know if people would want it.

So like they added motion control to the Nunchuck, I hope they'll add the option for multiple U Pads.

[Blix]

Nintendo of America president Reggie Fils-Aime has also confirmed that the Wii U will feature no backward compatibility with GameCube games or accessories. Considering the proprietary connector on GameCube controllers, that's not surprising. However, he did announce during Nintendo's press conference that the console will support all Wii games and accessories, including the Wii Remote and Classic Controller.

Does that put your mind at ease, Gecko? I don't remember exactly what you were saying about this and I've got no time to read atm.
source:

http://www.destructoid.com/nintendo-wii-u-has-amd-graphics-no-gc-support-203333.phtml

[magus113]

I kinda figured the Gamecube would get phased out soon at some point. It was nice having the compatibility with the Wii.

This really only sucks for people that trade in their consoles for new ones. I keep all of mine, or find replacement ones if mine are broken.

[gekko]

Well, historically I would agree. With each passing generation Nintendo has crippled the system in some fashion that makes 3rd party devs jump ship. With the N64 it was expensive cartridges and complex programming requirements. With the Gamecube it was 1.5 GB discs, lack of storage, Friend codes, and a purple case. The Wii didn't go HD and never had a high quality, dedicated core controller.

There's a lot more to consider than the consumer side. Developer tools, costs, developer support, etc. CodeWarrior alone is reason enough to not want to develop for Wii. On the opposite side, Microsoft's developer support and tools for Xbox are simply fantastic.

[thatmariolover]

There's a lot more to consider than the consumer side. Developer tools, costs, developer support, etc. CodeWarrior alone is reason enough to not want to develop for Wii. On the opposite side, Microsoft's developer support and tools for Xbox are simply fantastic.

Well, you're using DirectX on Xbox so you've got a whole different toolbox to work with.

[Blix]

Now that I've got a bit of free time from studying...


I'm thinking we're getting software emulation which is nice by me if that's the case. Backwards compatibility is a nice thing to have but if it comes at the price of holding the hardware back, then it's not worth it. I haven't gone back to playing many of the GCN games or PS2 games and for the handful of games that I come back, it's not worth it. I'll just keep my old consoles. =)

[Blix]

So apparently developers are saying the Wii U is 50% stronger than PS360.

Your thoughts?

I almost forgot to reply to this. The question wasn't directed at me but...

My thoughts on this is that games are still going to be developed for the lowest common denominator and then ported to the other ones. Take for example Skyrim, it was developed on consoles and then ported to PC. If it was created for PCs and then ported to consoles the PC version would be so much better. But developers want to make sure that they give everyone the same thing. I suppose some developers will make their games for the PS3 first (since it's the hardest console to work with) and then port it to everywhere else. So the games wil look and run better on the Wii U but not by much.

[BreakABone]

I almost forgot to reply to this. The question wasn't directed at me but...

My thoughts on this is that games are still going to be developed for the lowest common denominator and then ported to the other ones. Take for example Skyrim, it was developed on consoles and then ported to PC. If it was created for PCs and then ported to consoles the PC version would be so much better. But developers want to make sure that they give everyone the same thing. I suppose some developers will make their games for the PS3 first (since it's the hardest console to work with) and then port it to everywhere else. So the games wil look and run better on the Wii U but not by much.

Yeah, this is how its always worked to be honest. There are still games that run and look better on the 360, and really most developers don't care/take the time to optimize it.

Also 50% is such an odd figure in general, since it doesn't tell us anything on its own.

50% more RAM, 50% faster clock speed, a lot of different aspects go into the console.

And then you have to figure that part of its power will be eaten on rendering stuff on the controller.

<iframe width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/A_RuyOi3cks" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

or in some cases rendering something completely different.

[thatmariolover]

Crytek had stated Wednesday that the dev kits are currently underclocked to a PS3/360 level.

Today, Sega's MD for development Gary Dunn has stated that an upgraded set of dev kits will be sent out to developers in the next month or so.

While that doesn't really tell us a whole lot, it's at least something to keep in mind.

http://bit.ly/kgW6Sz

[Vampyr]

Yeah, this is how its always worked to be honest. There are still games that run and look better on the 360, and really most developers don't care/take the time to optimize it.

Also 50% is such an odd figure in general, since it doesn't tell us anything on its own.

50% more RAM, 50% faster clock speed, a lot of different aspects go into the console.

And then you have to figure that part of its power will be eaten on rendering stuff on the controller.

or in some cases rendering something completely different.

I actually don't mind some visual degradation to support having stuff on the controller. The thing that always annoyed me about the Wii's crappy graphics was that there was no reason for them. It's not like having bad graphics made the motion controls any better.

[thatmariolover]

EB Games might be getting a little ahead of themselves. They're already listing Mario and Zelda:
http://www.ebgames.com.au/wiiu

If it gets pulled:
http://i.imgur.com/Igue4.jpg

[BreakABone]

EB Games might be getting a little ahead of themselves. They're already listing Mario and Zelda:
http://www.ebgames.com.au/wiiu

If it gets pulled:
http://i.imgur.com/Igue4.jpg

I don't think its a LONG shot to assume Nintendo will release a Mario and Zelda game sometime during the course of the Wii U's life. :p

[thatmariolover]

I don't think its a LONG shot to assume Nintendo will release a Mario and Zelda game sometime during the course of the Wii U's life. :p

No, but they're claiming 'Available 2012'. :p

I really hope there's one or the other at launch, though. I know I probably won't buy one until either Mario or Zelda is available.

[magus113]

No, but they're claiming 'Available 2012'. :p

I really hope there's one or the other at launch, though. I know I probably won't buy one until either Mario or Zelda is available.

If they were smart they'd get on something for Zelda in the very very near future. I'm pretty positive Skyward Sword is probably very close to going gold soon enough. As soon as it does they need to start getting their shit together. Tech demos ain't gonna cut it for a while, dig?

[BreakABone]

If they were smart they'd get on something for Zelda in the very very near future. I'm pretty positive Skyward Sword is probably very close to going gold soon enough. As soon as it does they need to start getting their shit together. Tech demos ain't gonna cut it for a while, dig?

I am actually a little torn about this.

People often times criticize Nintendo for relying on their tried and true franchises, while I have my opinions about that, I think now would be a wise time to try something new.

Instead of dropping Mario, Zelda and Metroid early on in the console. They should use them as tentpole games, you know maybe one a year, and just have the rest of the year revolve around B-Tier franchises and new games and 3rd parties. This wya you still get your sales boost while trying to expand your brand.

[magus113]

I am actually a little torn about this.

People often times criticize Nintendo for relying on their tried and true franchises, while I have my opinions about that, I think now would be a wise time to try something new.

Instead of dropping Mario, Zelda and Metroid early on in the console. They should use them as tentpole games, you know maybe one a year, and just have the rest of the year revolve around B-Tier franchises and new games and 3rd parties. This wya you still get your sales boost while trying to expand your brand.

Well I would imagine it'd take them two years thereabouts to be able to fire another one out, but it'd be nice to know they have something planned.

[BreakABone]

Well I would imagine it'd take them two years thereabouts to be able to fire another one out, but it'd be nice to know they have something planned.

Two years is a bit generous no?

I mean Skyward Sword is 5 years after TP

TP was 3 1/2 years after Wind Waker

Which was like 2 1/2 years after Majora's Mask

[magus113]

Two years is a bit generous no?

I mean Skyward Sword is 5 years after TP

TP was 3 1/2 years after Wind Waker

Which was like 2 1/2 years after Majora's Mask

Wow. Time flies. I had no idea it took that long.

[Angrist]

It's a bit disturbing to see how Zelda games seem to take more time with every new game. :(
I blame the handhelds.

[Blix]

It's a bit disturbing to see how Zelda games seem to take more time with every new game. :(
I blame the handhelds.

I think it's because they want to make them unique (and they've been successful so far). The closest games have been OOT and MM and even then, when you play the game, the are very different. But it's also nice that they're not released every year. that would over expose the series and get some people tired.

[Ginkasa]

It's a bit disturbing to see how Zelda games seem to take more time with every new game. :(
I blame the handhelds.

Since you blame the handhelds I'll assume they don't count.

Original Japanese release years:

LoZ: 1986

AoL: 1987 (1 year)

ALttP: 1991 (4 years)

OoT: 1998 (7 years)

MM: 2000 (2 years)

TWW: 2002 (2 years)

TP: 2006 (4 years)

SS: 2011 (5 years)


So, sure, the wait for SS has been the longest since OoT, but its hardly the longest wait in the series. If you go ahead and include the handhelds (which, really, are typically just as full content wise as the console releases minus the graphical power) than Zelda has never been more prevalent.

[Angrist]

I didn't really count the handhelds because I never enjoy them as intensely as the console games. I have still to finish PH and start ST..

In the past Nintendo has used external teams to create the handheld games (Oracles of S/A, The Minish Cap), but now they use mostly the same team as for the consoles. I think that's why they're taking more time for their games than 10 years ago.

[magus113]

SPEAKING OF HANDHELDS

Ocarina of Time 3D is fantastic. I'm already Adult Link and I got this game at noon today when GameStop opened. I haven't been playing all day either.

Seriously, it's beautiful and the 3D is well done, and the controls are great, and it's just...OoT. Fantastic purchase.

[Vampyr]

SPEAKING OF HANDHELDS

Ocarina of Time 3D is fantastic. I'm already Adult Link and I got this game at noon today when GameStop opened. I haven't been playing all day either.

Seriously, it's beautiful and the 3D is well done, and the controls are great, and it's just...OoT. Fantastic purchase.

Yeah, it is really tempting me to purchase a 3DS. I'm going to hold out for the next model, though, and Ocarina will probably be the first game I pick up when I buy it.

[Blix]

Yeah, it is really tempting me to purchase a 3DS. I'm going to hold out for the next model, though, and Ocarina will probably be the first game I pick up when I buy it.

I'm going to buy it with my next paycheck just to get that sound track. =( I don't have a 3DS yet and won't be buying it untill I'm done paying my debts (not many left) and, hopefully, there is a new system with longer battery life. But that sound track... I simply... must... have! I'll find someone to lend me a 3DS though, I'm pretty sure I will.

[Angrist]

Then you better buy it before midnight today. I think they ran out of soundtracks, but because of commotion are making extra for those who buy it today.

Or it might have been yesterday, you should look it up.

[Blix]

Then you better buy it before midnight today. I think they ran out of soundtracks, but because of commotion are making extra for those who buy it today.

Or it might have been yesterday, you should look it up.

Sadly, I'm on the red. If I miss it I'll buy it off ebay. I just hope that they don't sell it for some exagerated price like $90 because then MP3s will have to do.

[magus113]

Well I just finished it. It's...Ocarina of Time. I don't know how else to put it.

I might give it a little bit before I give the Master Quest a go though. If you have questions about it, I can answer them, although I'm pretty sure most stuff you can look up.

[Angrist]

How much do you play the boss battle feature?

[magus113]

How much do you play the boss battle feature?

I actually haven't tried it yet! I plan to some time pretty soon, but I wanted to put it down for a bit since I kinda power hour'd it.

[thatmariolover]

So we learn today that Nintendo kept most of the details of the WiiU from top game developers within their own company.

http://bit.ly/k7yhkh

Super Mario Galaxy Director/Producer Yoshiaki Koizumi didn't know almost anything about the system before it was shown off at E3.

Is it any wonder that they had such a poor showing (in terms of title announcements) when they manage the company like that?

[Angrist]

Yeah that's ridiculous. :( It's going to take years before we have some really good games.
Just like with the 3DS now.

I guess I will wait then. In only got the Wii so soon because of Zelda and Wii Sports. I could have waited for the rest. I got a DS after 4 years, I don't see myself buying a 3DS within 2 years.

[BreakABone]

I feel like people have taken that quote the wrong way, but happens when a company is vague.

At the moment, the man is extremely vasted in the 3DS and developing Super Mario 3DS, so he was probably given most of the details, but not everything since he wasn't currently working on anything for the Wii U.

I'd even wager, that he had some say in the design since he is the producer on their biggest franchise.