8.9 earth quake + tsunami in Japan

[Angrist]

Terrible to watch... There's ships rolling over land. :( Since they didn't see it coming, SO many people must have died.

http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2011/03/11/sot.tsunami.hit.japan.cnn?hpt=T1

[Teuthida]

Only six earthquakes in recorded history have been more powerful than this one.

Predicted path of the tsunami:
http://www.spiegel.de/images/image-190518-galleryV9-bgqq.jpg

Ground level video of a son and mother fleeing their house in Sendai: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3fUqdGXLbM

[Seth]

My friend in osaka said she didn't feel much of a shake when it happened. She was in a cafe and the tables were rattling a bit. Anyway, I'm so nervous about the meltdown situation. Another of my friends is living at a ski hill kind of west from Tokyo. Its so crazy to think about what's potentially another Chernobyl in progress.
People are worried on the west coast, (vancouver) because of the current heading directly over here.
Something seems amiss over their backup plan for the Fukishima plant. Some safety shortfalls on their nuclear industry's behalf?
fuuuuck there's so many people close to there. What a nightmare

[Vampyr]

Something seems amiss over their backup plan for the Fukishima plant. Some safety shortfalls on their nuclear industry's behalf?

I keep thinking this. Everything I have heard so far about the plant has been really light on the actual details. I think most people are content enough to think "oh, it's nuclear, that stuff is dangerous", but plants typically are so well engineered and have so many safety fail safes in place that something like this shouldn't happen.

[Angrist]

People are worried on the west coast, (vancouver) because of the current heading directly over here.Didn't the tsunami hit the Americas a few days ago? It barely did any damage.

The nuclear plant has me confused. How hard can it be to cool those reactors? All they need is a) water, b) electricity and c) rerouting of those two.
But I assume they're doing their best there.

In the beginning they were talking about how a couple of hundred people died. I found it hard believe it was so low... Sendai had a million inhabitants! Where did they all go? I figured there had to be thousands of deaths. And indeed now they are talking about more than 10.000. :(

[Teuthida]

Before and after satellite shots of the tsunami destruction. (http://www.abc.net.au/news/events/japan-quake-2011/beforeafter.htm)

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[quiet mike]

The problem with the reactors cooling comes with the difficulties in repairing/replacing the backup generators, or get energy from somewhere else, while dodging the ~300 aftershocks, some of them quite powerful.

[Vampyr]

Didn't the tsunami hit the Americas a few days ago? It barely did any damage.


He means currents carrying radiation, I believe.

[Angrist]

Ah I see. :(

So now they're saying there's a 70% chance of another 7.0+ quake.

[Seth]

Nitrogen-16 isotopes apparently have short half-life radioactivity so that is good. People are being admitted with radiation poisoning symptoms around Fukushima .
It seems as if the Japanese government wasn't being entirely open about the situation. Which is understandable in a crisis situation but still...
I'd be maxing my potassium iodine intake if living there. Holy shit. natural, not radiated iodine is sooo important to prevent the thyroid from using 'extra' iodine in the system that has been contaminated.
Its good to have a stockpile of kelp or other natural potassium iodine handy in case of radiation emergencies like this. Common sense in a nuclear world.

The concern that another nuclear plant is having trouble is freaky. Near Miyagi prefecture radiation is 400 times higher than normal.

My friend from highschool and his wife have been living there for the past year, working at a mountain snow resort north west of Tokyo. I'm praying they're going to be ok.
I wonder what the situation is for air travel leaving the country.
My gut tells me the Japanese are innovative and resilient enough to prevent a Chernobyl level disaster at this point but anything's possible. 7+ aftershocks are fucking scary. Another tsunami can easily result from an earthquake of that magnitude. Depends on sea floor shift doesnt it?

[Seth]

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=23676

That article is not pleasant to read, but it's relevant and I recommend.

It's written by a disaster relief earthquake fellow.
It touches on the same situation that had the government reassuring Ukranians about the safety, while at the same time evacuating administors' families and whatnot.

side thought on a part of the article:
I want to learn more about wind power viability because there's a fine line between the perception of lobbyist' trumping over logical shifts in industry and the actual impractibility of implimenting alternatives in the energy production field.

There's gotta be a way to deter birds from flying at the prop levels. Like how they use sonar tech stuff to keep sharks at a distance. There's has to be something.

[Professor S]

I thought this article was a good one, and free of sensationalism. It shows how the media can make a serious situation an apocalyptic one.

http://bravenewclimate.com/2011/03/13/fukushima-simple-explanation/

Below I reproduce a summary on the situation prepared by Dr Josef Oehmen, a research scientist at MIT, in Boston...

...There was and will *not* be any significant release of radioactivity. By “significant” I mean a level of radiation of more than what you would receive on – say – a long distance flight, or drinking a glass of beer that comes from certain areas with high levels of natural background radiation...

...I have been reading every news release on the incident since the earthquake. There has not been one single (!) report that was accurate and free of errors (and part of that problem is also a weakness in the Japanese crisis communication). By “not free of errors” I do not refer to tendentious anti-nuclear journalism – that is quite normal these days. By “not free of errors” I mean blatant errors regarding physics and natural law, as well as gross misinterpretation of facts, due to an obvious lack of fundamental and basic understanding of the way nuclear reactors are built and operated...

...The plant came close to a core meltdown. Here is the worst-case scenario that was avoided: If the seawater could not have been used for treatment, the operators would have continued to vent the water steam to avoid pressure buildup. The third containment would then have been completely sealed to allow the core meltdown to happen without releasing radioactive material. After the meltdown, there would have been a waiting period for the intermediate radioactive materials to decay inside the reactor, and all radioactive particles to settle on a surface inside the containment. The cooling system would have been restored eventually, and the molten core cooled to a manageable temperature. The containment would have been cleaned up on the inside. Then a messy job of removing the molten core from the containment would have begun, packing the (now solid again) fuel bit by bit into transportation containers to be shipped to processing plants. Depending on the damage, the block of the plant would then either be repaired or dismantled...

[Angrist]

I quickly scanned that article and all I read was MELTDOWN! MELTDOOOOOOOOOWN!!! :(

Yeah, you're right. Media likes to make it look worse. Well maybe not the death toll... it took them days to admit that probably more than 10.000 died.

[Professor S]

I quickly scanned that article and all I read was MELTDOWN! MELTDOOOOOOOOOWN!!! :(

Yeah, you're right. Media likes to make it look worse. Well maybe not the death toll... it took them days to admit that probably more than 10.000 died.

I think the entire situation is horrible, but the media is concentrating on the nuclear power plant when that is the LEAST of Japan's worries. The fact is no one is going to die or even get sick if the plant melts down because it is completely contained. Water shortages and sanitation are the real threats right now.

[Seth]

The issue of background radiation levels and possible added exposure from the exposed cores situation is interesting. I come from central BC where certain communities have natural background radiation levels of over 8!


Thank god the japanese aren't 'looters'.

I can see this situation pummelling possible progressive and safe nuclear advancement and contrarily regress into oil price super inflation. It's 'good' the west is about to secure north african oil reserves.

Yoichi Shimatsu, former Japan Times editor, has some good points:
"The Unit 1 reactor container is not cracked despite the explosion that destroyed its building.

The explosion did not erupt out of the reactor.

So what caused the explosion that blasted away the reinforced concrete roof and walls? Silence.

Yes, there's nothing to worry about if residents just stay indoors, turn off their air-cons and don't breathe deeply. Everyone, go back to sleep.

The radiation leak at Fukushima No.1 nuclear plant is now officially designated as a "4" on the international nuclear-events scale of 7. This is the same criticality rating at an earlier minor accident at Tokaimura plant in Ibaraki. Technically, there is no comparison. Tokaimura did not experience a partial meltdown."

[Professor S]

By the way, when the media says that people have been treated for radiation exposure, what they are actually saying is that they bathed in soap and water. This is the extent of the exposure.

[Seth]

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nhk-world-tv

Live stream. Another explosion and the pressure's let up so that means a leak.
wtf

Its difficult not to be upset over the seeming lack of backup safety avenues.
The live stream ended and they're looping the know nothing news. Talking about it but not showing any more footage. RT had something that might have been the latest explosion.

[Angrist]

I watch http://edition.cnn.com/video/flashLive/live.html?stream=/3 from time to time. But yeah, not that many new news coming out.

[Seth]

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/13320522

Question/answer panel with engineers and designers of the Fukushima plant. Not employees of TEPC or the government.
Hour and forty minutes but worth it for the info if you're wrackin like I am.
At 1:40 of this video it shows the jetstream path for the next few days.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEsHbN-75e8&NR=1

not wanting to incite fear. But this, for me, is reason enough to have KI on hand...

[Angrist]

Here in the Netherlands we're almost the furthest away from Japan. And even where you are, I'm sure radiation won't ever reach unhealthy levels. Remember the 2 a-bombs on Japan? America didn't suffer from that, did it?

Of course it could be dangerous for Japan and maybe Korea/China/Russia, depending on where the wind blows. If we ever get to a meltdown, which I doubt.

[Seth]

Here in the Netherlands we're almost the furthest away from Japan. And even where you are, I'm sure radiation won't ever reach unhealthy levels. Remember the 2 a-bombs on Japan? America didn't suffer from that, did it?

Of course it could be dangerous for Japan and maybe Korea/China/Russia, depending on where the wind blows. If we ever get to a meltdown, which I doubt.
The Nagasaki and Hiroshima bombings were a different scenario altogether.
Anyway, unfortunately, at this moment, the prevailing wind is heading across the Pacific in usual March fashion. Because there's a loopy trough we're gonna get it up north. According to the predictions charts central alberta is right on the fringe so hopefully the forecast isn't being modest.

Angrist, I hope you're praying my friend.

Being in class is kind of weird today since NO ONE seems to be aware of the news and understandably. It'll probably come up in my shakespeare class later today.
What's sick is the administration of foreign efforts. Why is the reaction based on a 'request plea' by the Japanese gov't? This is where someone from the west, like Obama, needed to bully their way in like they usually do in so many other matters and get a clamp down on the situation. THEY COULD NOT COOL SOME OF THE REACTORS AS OF RECENT BECAUSE THEY HAVE RUN OUT OF GENERATOR FUEL!!!

What the fucking isotope is going on? This event, beyond the immediate murdoch and counter hypes going on, is going to completely change the way nuclear power is governed by 'independant' international bodies.
There has to be collusion, at least until ratification of safety standards is somewhat organized in a nuclear world that has vastly different ways of operating programs nationaly.

Another awful component of this event is that the blame can't really be put on a single individual. Tokyo ECP is obviously at fault for irrational cost cutting. But it goes so much beyond.

What freaks me out beyond measure is that they have an estimated hundreds of thousands of used reactor cores at these plant locations. The submersion pools are on the upper floors of these reactor facilities? Like, fuck, if the hydrogen was enough to blow the roofs off then how hot are the pools getting. Pray they figure out how to permanently get everything cooled down.


Scary scenario is if the evacuation gets worse and the other plants in the country aren't cold shut off in time. And since they might need to be 'offed' that means even less power to a country that's already short.
Radiation readings have stopped coming in since sometime yesterda? I haven't found anything since 11,000 ms was detected. Before that they had it on loop at 3,000 roughly.

[Professor S]

http://bravenewclimate.com/2011/03/15/fukushima-15-march-summary/

During March 12 and 13, there were serious issues with providing sufficient cooling to units 1 and 3 after the tsunami had caused damage to the diesel backup generators and compromised the emergency cooling water supply. This resulted in a decision to use sea water injection to keep the reactors cool — a process that is ongoing. Steam was regularly vented as part of the effort to relieve steam pressure within the reactor vessels, but this also led to an accumulation of hydrogen gas within the secondary buildings that house the reactor units. Possible sources for the hydrogen are discussed here. Unfortunately, this hydrogen could not be vented sufficiently quickly, resulting in chemical explosions (hydrogen-oxygen interactions) within the two reactor housing buildings of both unit 1 and unit 2 during March 12-13.

The roof and part of the side walls of both buildings were severely damaged as a result. After the first hydrogen explosion there is no longer a roof on the building, so there is little chance of any large buildup of hydrogen or further explosions at these units. [In restrospect, the designers (40 years ago) perhaps should have more carefully considered the implications of the decision to vent the pressure suppression torus to the reactor building space]. Although hydrogen recombiners are a standard feature of that design, they unfortunately lost all AC power, and then the batteries were run down. Containment (the robust concrete shell and 18 inch thick steel reactor vessel within it), however, remained intact. This was verified by monitoring levels of radiation surrounding the units — if there had been any containment breach, levels would have jumped...

Regarding radiation levels: It is very important to distinguish between doses from the venting of noble-gas fission products, which rapidly dissipate and cause no long-term contamination or ingestion hazard, and aerosols of other fission products including cesium and iodine...

Japan suffered an earthquake and tsunami of unprecedented proportion that has caused unbelievable damage to every part of their infrastructure, and death of very large numbers of people. The media have chosen to report the damage to a nuclear plant which was, and still is, unlikely to harm anyone. We won’t know for sure, of course, until the last measure to assure cooling is put in place, but that’s the likely outcome. You’d never know it from the parade of interested anti-nuclear activists identified as “nuclear experts” on TV.

[Vampyr]

@Seth I think you're over reacting. (pun not intended)

http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/03/banana-dose-equivalents-of-radiation.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+blogspot%2Fadvancednano+%28nextbigfuture%29&utm_content=Google+Reader


Saw someone post this somewhere else. When the explosions first happened radiation spiked to the equivalent of eating 30 bananas a day for a year (which is crazy, but not likely to kill you from radiation poisoning), and now it has dropped back down to eating 1 - 2 bananas a day for a year.

Unless you're equally worried about the radioactivity of bananas, I think you're gonna be alright. :)

[Angrist]

Your PC, cell phone and handheld probaly emit more radiation than you have to fear from these reactors.

[Bond]

This is clearly the prelude to the end of the world in 2012.

[Seth]

The containment building blew so there's been open release. And they haven't been able to keep it sprayed. So i dunno, see where it goes.

http://bravenewclimate.com/
"There appears to have been some exposure of this spent fuel, and radiation levels around this area remain high — making access in order to maintain water levels particularly troublesome. Note that apart from short-lived fission product gases, these radiation sources are otherwise contained within the rods and not particularised in a way that facilitates dispersion. Again, the problems encountered here can be linked to the critical lack of on-site power, with the mains grid still being out of action. As a further precaution, TEPCO is considering spraying the pool with boric acid to minimise the probability of ‘prompt criticality’ events. This is the news item we should be watching most closely today."

[Angrist]

At the moment I'm most worried about the lack of water, food and fuel. And I think people haven't had a shower for almost a week.

I'm surprised such a rich and civilized country has problems like that. I know it's chaos, but still... how hard can it be to keep driving food and water trucks towards the aid centers?

[Ginkasa]

At the moment I'm most worried about the lack of water, food and fuel. And I think people haven't had a shower for almost a week.

I'm surprised such a rich and civilized country has problems like that. I know it's chaos, but still... how hard can it be to keep driving food and water trucks towards the aid centers?


The issue is the amount of people that are left homeless. Its the amount of food and water necessary that's the problem, I'm sure, not the transportation.

[Angrist]

So even if 1/10 of the country (it's less) was damaged, I bet that 9/10 can share their food. Heck, if they asked me, I would share my food.

[Fox 6]

So I guess the reactor problem is getting quite serious now. Ive read some headlines along the lines of "Japan has 48 hours to stop nuclear catastrophe". Ive also heard that they have limited the working parties to 50 person rotations, all whom are prepared to die to stop it. :(

[Acebot44]

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[Vampyr]

So even if 1/10 of the country (it's less) was damaged, I bet that 9/10 can share their food. Heck, if they asked me, I would share my food.

From everything I've seen, the Japanese have handled this crisis extremely well. Most people who have homes are just staying there, not out trying to horde food or anything. People aren't looting.

I can't imagine if something like that were to happen here, especially in a larger city. It would be chaos.

[Professor S]

One thing to keep in mind as this progresses is that this is not a nuclear disaster, it is a natural one. One of the six largest earthquakes in history hit this structure followed by a tsunami and aftershocks. It's shocking that the entire area isn't GLOWING by now, much less that they've been able to handle everything as well as they have.

Some lessons learned: Keep the generators on the ground level, and have solar back-up to run the cooling system. Triple redundancy. If the plant had electricity this never would have happened. Also, I think keeping spent fuel on site should be re-examined.

[Angrist]

Discussions in the Netherlands (and the rest of Europe?) have started. They want to build more nuclear plants here, but now most people are not too certain about it.

I've read that a vulcanic eruption in Greenland can cause a tsunami here in the Netherlands.

Also, people here are suddenly buying emergency stock and kits (or whatever it's called). Takes a disaster to be prepared for one?

[Typhoid]

Some lessons learned: Keep the generators on the ground level, and have solar back-up to run the cooling system. Triple redundancy. If the plant had electricity this never would have happened. Also, I think keeping spent fuel on site should be re-examined.

Personally, I think the lesson learned should be "Find a different type of energy that won't possibly devastate your local (or any far away) area. I'm just not a fan of Nuclear power for reasons like this. Sure, they're safe when they're working - but when they fail - they fail magnificently. It just added an un-needed disaster to this already terrible disaster. It's like those pimp my ride memes. "Yo dog, we heard you like disasters, so we put a disaster in your disaster so you can panic while you suffer."


Also, people here are suddenly buying emergency stock and kits (or whatever it's called). Takes a disaster to be prepared for one?

Some people here have been doing that, too. Granted, Vancouver is overdue for an earthquake on par, or worse than what hit Japan (Science forbid). I have a hard time watching BBC with all the Japan coverage without working myself into a worried fit of "That's going to fucking happen here."

[Seth]

This article has raised for me some important questions regarding the nuclear power industry.

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=23764