What is Game Play?

[BreakABone]

Just something I've been pondering.. for the last 2 minutes, but we always tell friends that a game has good or bad game play, but what does that really mean?

I mean how do you describe game play? What is it to you?

[Teuthida]

The core of a game. What makes it fun. Strip away all your fancy graphics, atmosphere, story, whathaveyou. If it's still fun when the characters are grey cubes in a nondescript world, that's good game play.

[Professor S]

Its what Too Human didn't have...

[KillerGremlin]

I feel like this is a cutting-edge philosophy question, like back when the first philosophers dicked about "what is art."

For me, game play is that "thing" that takes something from being a video, picture, art, task, whatever, and brings in some interactive component that includes things like challenge, accomplishment, reward, success, failure, competition, etc.

The most popular games (SEE: NOT VIDEO GAMES) are built on fairly simple game play with basic things like winning/losing, risk/reward, competition.

Looking at a picture is not a game. Looking at a picture with a friend and seeing who can find something first is. Especially if there is pie at the end. Seriously, fuck all you cake-eating pie haters. :D

[Combine 017]

Its what Too Human didn't have...

Bam!

[Angrist]

Now let's see if I can come up with some categories...

A. Control. How do you steer your character/car/environment? Is it responsive, is it stiff? How many buttons do you need? Frustrating or fun?
B. Possibilities. How many stuff is there to do? Does it get repetitive fast, or does it entertain you for a long time?
C. Rewards. Why would you do the stuff you can do, what's the payback?

Let's take Super Mario Galaxy 2 as a good example.
Controls are simple and tight.
There are a lot of possibilities and different playstyles.
You get to see a new pretty world if you complete the level. You also progress through the story (but it was way to complicated for me personally).

Disaster: Day of Crisis (the Wii game you never got in America) as a bad example.
Controls are sloppy and annoying.
Not much to do, very little action going on.
The rewards were way too slow and small.

Want to add a category?

[Teuthida]

Looking at a picture is not a game. Looking at a picture with a friend and seeing who can find something first is. Especially if there is pie at the end. Seriously, fuck all you cake-eating pie haters. :D

I don't think I would have gotten very far in Portal if I was promised pie at the end. Pies are for charts, not eating.

[Professor S]

Pie is a distillation of the best parts of cake. Cake is beer, pie is whiskey. Cake is wine, pie is cognac. Cake is the beginning of something wonderful. Pie is simply wonderful.

/debate

[Teuthida]

The thing is, cake is always good. Pie is grab bag. If someone offers you pie there's a very good chance it won't be to your liking. And say you bite into a pie expecting it to be strawberry and turns out to be meat. You can eat cake without fear.

Yay for derailing thread.

[Professor S]

Sir, your definition of "good" is troubling at best. Cake is never "good", it is edible and sweet. If given the choice of cake, pie, or any other desert, the correct answer is pie or any other desert. Cake is eaten because cake is better than no cake, just as having an old Yugo is better than having no car. Given the choice, you would take a better car, but you due to poor live choices you are left with cake. Ergo, cake is for losers.

And derailing threads is fun.

[Professor S]

Sir, your definition of "good" is troubling at best. Cake is never "good", it is edible and sweet. If given the choice of cake, pie, or any other desert, the correct answer is pie or any other desert. Cake is eaten because cake is better than no cake, just as having an old Yugo is better than having no car. Given the choice, you would take a better car, but you due to poor life choices you are left with cake. Ergo, cake is for losers.

And derailing threads is fun.

[Vampyr]

I like cake.

[TheSlyMoogle]

The thing is, cake is always good. Pie is grab bag. If someone offers you pie there's a very good chance it won't be to your liking. And say you bite into a pie expecting it to be strawberry and turns out to be meat. You can eat cake without fear.

Yay for derailing thread.

That's bogus. I've had some terrible cakes. In fact I've had so many terrible cakes that I no longer eat cake, ever. If someone is like "Hey dessert time!"

and I'm like "Oh hey what did you make?!" and they're like "OMG CAKE!!!"

I'm like "Oh... Really? Sounds awesome but... I'm super stuffed and can't eat another bite. Maybe we can have cake later?!"

Really though, I'm just not going to eat that cake. It's cake and that's disgusting.

I mean really, the only thing cake has over Pie is that you can't do this with Pie:

http://sandboxworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/millienium_falcon_cake.jpg

However you will never get this out of a cake:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_iA_83UkwGUo/S_5_8jNEbaI/AAAAAAAAA44/0SahvQ3qg-o/s1600/key-lime-pie-ct-1585374-x.jpg

Just look at that fucking perfection. It will taste so good too. Mmm... Pie.

[Teuthida]

What sort of fool would prefer a dessert that can't be molded into the Millennium Falcon? A bakery lives or dies on their sale of starship shaped treats. The Queen of England eats a cake in the shape of the Starship Enterprize every single night as Patrick Stewart seductively reads off the ingredient list until she reaches orgasm.

[Angrist]

The gameplay of derailing a thread is simple, diverse and very rewarding.
Sorry, off-topic. Go on.

[Fox 6]

Why are the best celebrations always marked with cake? Because its the best. I'm williing to bet Prof that you and your wife didn't cut a wedding pie.

[TheSlyMoogle]

What sort of fool would prefer a dessert that can't be molded into the Millennium Falcon? A bakery lives or dies on their sale of starship shaped treats. The Queen of England eats a cake in the shape of the Starship Enterprize every single night as Patrick Stewart seductively reads off the ingredient list until she reaches orgasm.

Ahh but a lesser know fact is that it is a different piece of pie that Patrick Stewart feeds her every night that tips her over the scale into said orgasm.

The cake is just to show that she has tons of money, though not as much money as JK Rowling, the true Queen of England.

[Teuthida]

Harry Potter was actually a ruse by which Rowling was able to bypass the Anti-Anti-Pie Association. True eaters of the cake can easily decipher the code hidden within the books and read her anti-pie manifesto in all its glory.

[BreakABone]

I believe cake is referenced several times in the Potter books, not sure about pie, I'm sure its there.

And I like that this thread continues the only long-lasting feud on GT.

[TheSlyMoogle]

I believe cake is referenced several times in the Potter books, not sure about pie, I'm sure its there.

And I like that this thread continues the only long-lasting feud on GT.

I do believe that a little food called "Sherpard's Pie" is Harry Potter's favorite food.

You know it's a pie, made with lots of fun stuff including vegetables and meat (Lamb!).

Harry Potter in fact only eats cake because the house elves are too fucking lazy to make more pie, and they should be severely made to punish themselves all day.

[Swan]

Cake tries to pretty itself up to make itself more appealing.


A pie can stand on its own knowing that it is amazing just the way it is

[BreakABone]

In defense of cake

http://www.geekstir.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/superhero-cake-642x898.jpg

Also cheesecake wants to be so loved that it doesn't tell you its a pie!

[Fox 6]

Show me a show on TLC called 'Pie-Boss'. Nobody would watch it.

[Professor S]

Cake requires frills, food coloring, and other heresies. Pie needs to only be pie.

Pies can be eaten for breakfast, lunch or dinner.

Pies can be savory or sweet.

http://carlosanastacio.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/most-interesting-man-in-the-world.jpg

I don't always eat pastry, but when I do... I eat pie.

[Fox 6]

Just ask yourself this. "What do beautiful naked young ladies pop out of?" Cakes.

[Swan]

You don't refer to a ladies nethers as cake do you?



It has and always will be pie

[Fox 6]

Pie has crust. The portion infamously thrown away on numerous foods.

[Professor S]

Pie has crust. The portion infamously thrown away on numerous foods.

Children discard the crust. On Pie crust is the most important part. This only reinforces pie's greatness.

If you cake-lovers don't think the crust is the most important part, it only shows your lack of taste. We pie-lovers consume fine champagne. Cake-lovers swill PBR.

[BreakABone]

Children discard the crust. On Pie crust is the most important part. This only reinforces pie's greatness.

If you cake-lovers don't think the crust is the most important part, it only shows your lack of taste. We pie-lovers consume fine champagne. Cake-lovers swill PBR.

If you assume that cake is associated with weddings, and weddings are associated with wine, champagne, and the really good stuff...

Let me ask Prof, did you have Wedding Pie at your ceremony?

[Fox 6]

If you assume that cake is associated with weddings, and weddings are associated with wine, champagne, and the really good stuff...

Let me ask Prof, did you have Wedding Pie at your ceremony?

I already asked that question. Look in the damn thread.

[Professor S]

Wedding cake is an ornament, not a true dessert. Most weddings you go to now have dessert... and the stale cake that no one eats.

Again, pie does not need ornamentation. Being pie is enough.

[Vampyr]

To get this thread back on topic...

What is pie?

I believe this is one of the reasons I like cake more - even some of the more esoteric cakes like carrot cake still have a cake-like quality that makes them "cake". You can always tell a cake when you bite into one.

What about a pie makes it a pie? How can one say that they like "pie", when the varieties of pie are so large and different. Apple, rhubarb, key lime, butterscotch, chocolate, cherry, meat....

While most pies are superb, I tend to prefer cake since it's typically not as rich and can be enjoyed at any time, despite how full you may be.

I also like my cake plain without any sort of icing, though.

But, as a cake lover, I do agree that the crust is one of the best parts of a pie.

[Professor S]

What is the best cake?

Cheese... and that is a CUSTARD PIE!

/TOPIC

[Teuthida]

Not once will you find the word "pie" on the wikipedia page for cheesecake. Are you claiming to know more than the all mighty wikipedia?

And if it was pie (which it's not) it's obviously embarrassed to be called such.

[Professor S]

Not once will you find the word "pie" on the wikipedia page for cheesecake. Are you claiming to know more than the all mighty wikipedia?

And if it was pie (which it's not) it's obviously embarrassed to be called such.

I don't but Food Network's Alton Brown does...

It is pie. There is no leavening in a cheesecake. Instead, its heart is eggs, dairy and sugar, making it a custard, and it sits on a CRUST.

PIE!

[Angrist]

Not once will you find the word "pie" on the wikipedia page for cheesecake.No, I just deleted that yesterday. :) I love wikipedia!

[Teuthida]

Mister Professor, the definition of pie is basically anything on pie crust. That's like saying you like hamburgers because of the bread. What a silly notion. Silly I say! Silly!

[KillerGremlin]

The thing is, cake is always good.

You say this like this is fact. If anything, cake is often not good on the basis that it is mandatory eating at events. Cake is expected at birthdays, weddings, etc., so it is not uncommon to get some dried out, crappy frosting, ass-cake.

Since pie is a selective desert, it is baked and served in much more methodical fashion. I cannot recall the last time I had a slice of pie and went, "oh damn, this frosting tastes like that nasty shit you buy in the baking isle at your local Jewel/Dominicks/Whatever store."


Show me a show on TLC called 'Pie-Boss'. Nobody would watch it.

Considering that the demographic of TLC are people who are also attracted to shiny objects it only makes sense that the emphasis is on how the food looks and not how it tastes. Jeez even BaBzie feel into the trap. Little does he know that I supplied the cream frosting for his superhero cake.


Pie has crust. The portion infamously thrown away on numerous foods.

Pssshhhh, spoken like a true Canadian. Pizza has crust, and New Yorkers, Chicagoans, and Fart Sniffers across the United States argue about crust all the time. We love crust. :p

And if we are playing this "other food game," we'll take pizza-pie and you can have crab cakes!

:D :D :D :D :D :D

[Professor S]

The cake is a lie. Portal tells us so.

[Fox 6]

The cake is a lie. Portal tells us so.

Taken out of context.

The lie is that if a particular cake which was promised is real or not.

Thats just weak political tactics.

By that logic I say that all pie must be bad because people only use it to throw at each other, and never eat it.

[TheSlyMoogle]

Taken out of context.

The lie is that if a particular cake which was promised is real or not.

Thats just weak political tactics.

By that logic I say that all pie must be bad because people only use it to throw at each other, and never eat it.

See though, if it was pie, you would have died at the end of portal.

Because even if the pie was a lie, you would have tried to get some anyway.

[Fox 6]

Fuck that noise.

[Swan]

Fuck that noise.

And that is the ultimate sign that pie has won.


A cake supporter whole heartedly giving up the argument

[Fox 6]

And that is the ultimate sign that pie has won.


A cake supporter whole heartedly giving up the argument

Its not giving up. Hes telling me what i would do in a situation, witch couldnt be further from the truth. Hes fabricating lies. Pie people do that, in order to tell themselves pie is good. which makes me think that all pie enthusiasts are masochists.

[Teuthida]

Plus no pie aficionados have addressed this:

Mister Professor, the definition of pie is basically anything on pie crust. That's like saying you like hamburgers because of the bread. What a silly notion. Silly I say! Silly!


I happened to make custard pie yesterday. But I didn't use any crust. So it wasn't a pie. Just an awesome bowl of custard. Which could have only possibly been better if I had some cake with it.

[Angrist]

I wonder which one is healthier, cake or pie. I don't like cake all that much, because it tastes too sweet and fat. At least with pie you often get some fruit inside your stomach.

[TheSlyMoogle]

In the order of desserts of win it goes like this from Greatest to worst (Greatest starting at the top):

Pies
Brownies (Which are almost cake, but not quite)
Cookies
Gelato
Ice Cream
Sorbet
Sherbet
Candy
Various sweet Breads
Carrot Cake
Cake

That's how terrible cake is.

[Teuthida]

Could you have a more lazy foodstuff? Hot fruit thrown into some crust.

And you can't bring carrot cake into this without your black sheep: Rhubarb pie.

Heat this up and plop it in some crust. There's your pie.

http://www.veggiegardeningtips.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/06/Rhubarb-Leaf.jpg

[Angrist]

we used to grow rhubarb in our garden. I haven't eaten it in 15 years...

[Combine 017]

For the longest time I thought it was called Rebar pie, so I was confused why anyone would want to eat it.

[Professor S]

Teuth, Rhubarb pie is delicious, and just another example of pie's versatility, and respect of function (taste) above form (awful, disgusting chemicals, stabilizers, leavening agents, colorants, fondant icing a.k.a. edible plastic).

http://deblogs.depaul.edu/JessicaBurgwald/PublishingImages/be-bop-a-re-bop-a-rhubarb%20pie.jpg

And just to show you what an ignorant slut you are, you do not put the entire plant into the pie. Only the lovely, colorful, and delicious stalk. The leaf is actually deadly poison, making rhubarb pie more BAD-ASS. Its the pie version of Fugu.

So not only is pie tastier, more versatile, and purer than cake, it could also kick cake's ass in a cage match.

[Teuthida]

Your tastebuds must have been rendered retarded from the decades of being pied in your cakehole.

I've had rhubarb pie. Hell, I've made it a number of times. You need to drown it with sugar to get any sort of satisfaction. Make a pie with pigeon crap and you'd need less sugar to reach the same level of enjoyment.

That's right, I bake. Given your expectations of what's in cake, you've obviously never had anything that wasn't from a mix or store bought.

[Professor S]

Your tastebuds must have been rendered retarded from the decades of being pied in your cakehole.

I've had rhubarb pie. Hell, I've made it a number of times. You need to drown it with sugar to get any sort of satisfaction. Make a pie with pigeon crap and you'd need less sugar to reach the same level of enjoyment.

That's right, I bake. Given your expectations of what's in cake, you've obviously never had anything that wasn't from a mix or store bought.

Sir, I had a PA dutch grandmother who made a chocolate fudge cake that would make you cry... until you had her apple pie.

The reason why you don't like pie is that you can't bake. HAVE AT YOU!

[Teuthida]

So her cake made you cry? Then I can only assume the apple pie was used as an emetic to make room for more of the cake no doubt filled with a cocktail of drugs to swing your mood so wildly that you're reduced to blubbering pool of chocolatey tears.

I can bake alright. But I don't consider making pie, baking. A blind overworked paraplegic circus seal could make a pie using only its mutant prehensile foreskin. You can't make a cake willy nilly like you can with a pie. Cake requires precise calculations. To bake a cake you need to be both a scientist and a student of the mystic dessert arts.

[Professor S]

So her cake made you cry? Then I can only assume the apple pie was used as an emetic to make room for more of the cake no doubt filled with a cocktail of drugs to swing your mood so wildly that you're reduced to blubbering pool of chocolatey tears.

I said it would make YOU cry. The remainder of your reply is moot.

I can bake alright. But I don't consider making pie, baking. A blind overworked paraplegic circus seal could make a pie using only its mutant prehensile foreskin. You can't make a cake willy nilly like you can with a pie. Cake requires precise calculations. To bake a cake you need to be both a scientist and a student of the mystic dessert arts.

Scientist? Its the scientific equivalent of making a baking soda and vinegar volcano. Can you read? Then you can make a cake. There is no art in the baking, only the decorating. The COVER-UP.

And the last time I checked they sold cake mixes out of boxes with fake names like Betty Crocker. Gee, that sounds impossible. Where is the pie box? Hmmm? Oh yeah, that's because pie isn't simply the task of mixes A with B and baking. It requires fresh ingredients. Crust must be cut-in correctly, with just the right mix of shortening and butter, then CHILLED before baking for maximum flakiness.

The is no step by step, oz by oz instructions for pie. It is the confluence of the culinary arts. Cake is a math problem, and they give you the answer on the side of the test.

Have your cake, and languish in your inequity. I'll have my pie and relish in nirvana.

For the record, you lost this argument after Cheesecake was revealed to be custard pie. Just an objective analysis of events.

[Teuthida]

Scientist? Its the scientific equivalent of making a baking soda and vinegar volcano. Can you read? Then you can make a cake. There is no art in the baking, only the decorating.

And you can be an illiterate dunce to make pie. What exactly is the point you're trying to make?

And the last time I checked they sold cake mixes out of boxes with fake names like Betty Crocker. Gee, that sounds impossible. Where is the pie box? Hmmm? Oh yeah, that's because pie isn't simply the task of mixes A with B and baking. It requires fresh ingredients. Crust must be cut-in correctly, with just the right mix of shortening and butter, then CHILLED before baking for maximum flakiness.

You can buy pre-made pie crust. Most recipes call for it. Chop up some apples. And bake until whenever. Durrrr, that was hard. Good thing no reading was required.

Again with the cake from a box? By that logic you can find pie in a vending machine:

http://www.freshchocodiles.com/images/hostess_fruit_pies.jpg

Talk about artificial ingredients...

[Professor S]

And you can be an illiterate dunce to make pie. What exactly is the point you're trying to make?



You can buy pre-made pie crust. Most recipes call for it. Chop up some apples. And bake until whenever. Durrrr, that was hard. Good thing no reading was required.

Again with the cake from a box? By that logic you can find pie in a vending machine:

http://www.freshchocodiles.com/images/hostess_fruit_pies.jpg

Talk about artificial ingredients...

Those are not pies. They are called "pasties", a variation on pie, once again showing off its versatility. Pie made cheap and accessible to the masses. Pie trumps cake in socioeconomic realms as well as taste.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasty

Pie is so good it necessitated spin-offs.

[Professor S]

You can buy pre-made pie crust. Most recipes call for it. Chop up some apples. And bake until whenever. Durrrr, that was hard. Good thing no reading was required.

Pie is the crust. If you don't make the crust, you haven't made a pie. Cake mix is cake mix, whether together in a box or in separate parts and you have to put it together yourself.

There is no art to it. Pie requires a deft hand, that is why most recipes assume you don't have the skill to build it yourself.

Cake? Toss it in a bowl and mix. Bake. Pancakes take more skill.

[Teuthida]

You're grasping at straws. How can you talk about art and skill?

http://jlsprinkelbug.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/starry-cake.jpg

Starry Nighted your ass.

And who knows what the make up of that is. Could be anything. Whereas with pie you have this:

http://intelligenttravel.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/06/09/strawberry_rhubarb_pie.jpg

Except just change the fruit for variation. Yawn.

And I like how you're playing the name game. Cheesecake is called cake but is really pie but then Hostess pies aren't really pies but pasties. Picking and choosing what's what instead of going by what it's called.

[Professor S]

You're grasping at straws. How can you talk about art and skill?

http://jlsprinkelbug.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/starry-cake.jpg

Starry Nighted your ass.

And it made me throw up in my mouth a little. The art I speak of is what takes place in your mouth, not in icing that probably tastes like lighter fluid.


http://intelligenttravel.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/06/09/strawberry_rhubarb_pie.jpg

Except just change the fruit for variation. Yawn.

Simple, yet refined. The purity of the art form. Your cake is porn. Pie is a film by Truffaut.

And I like how you're playing the name game. Cheesecake is called cake but is really pie but then Hostess pies aren't really pies but pasties. Picking and choosing what's what instead of going by what it's called.

I'm not the one playing games. I said pasties are a variation of a pie. Cheesecake has nothing in common with a cake. NOTHING. It doesn't have leavening, nor FLOUR. It is a custard sitting on a crust. Hence: PIE.

You don't have to believe me. Ask Alton Brown from the Food Network.

Skip to 1:40

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THE WORLD'S MOST POPULAR CAKE IS A PIE. GAME. SET. MATCH.

Good day to you, sir. Good day.

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[Teuthida]

You don't have to believe me. Ask Alton Brown from the Food Network.

Fallacy: Argument from authority....and an Elvis impersonator.


THE WORLD'S MOST POPULAR CAKE IS A PIE. GAME. SET. MATCH.

And yet the most popular pie isn't cheesecake for when one asks another what sort of pie they would like, they answer with a singular noun of the preferred filling which is expected to be followed by the suffix of "pie". Thus no one will ever respond with: "cheese" when asked.

And on the whole matter of what makes pie, pie, please refer back to my hamburger/bread analogy. Wouldn't custard on cake be far superior to a thin piece of almost non existent crunchy blahness which is merely there to keep your plate just a tad less messy? The answer is a resounding: Yes, yes it would.

[Vampyr]

The greatest desert in the world is a cake:

http://www.onogelatocompany.com/i//tiramisu.jpg

[Professor S]

Fallacy: Argument from authority....and an Elvis impersonator.

Funny, I thought someone who is an authority on food, and illustrates the SCIENTIFIC difference between cake and pie, would hold weight...

And yet the most popular pie isn't cheesecake for when one asks another what sort of pie they would like, they answer with a singular noun of the preferred filling which is expected to be followed by the suffix of "pie". Thus no one will ever respond with: "cheese" when asked.

Now who is playing word games again?

I stand by argument, that will now be known to posterity as "The Cheesecake Revelation".

[Professor S]

The greatest desert in the world is a cake:

http://www.onogelatocompany.com/i//tiramisu.jpg

Your personal opinion on Tiramisu is apreciated, but inconsequential. Cheesecake is by far the most loved cake in the world. And it is a pie.

As for Tiramisu itself:

Tiramisu is a TRIFLE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trifle), not a cake, and it is made from layering components, and the only baked good involved are Lady Fingers which are best described as cookies or biscuits. It doesn't even have icing, but custard or pastry cream, which is what is used in Trifles.

Even the Wiki for for Tiramisu describes it as a Trifle.

There is some debate regarding tiramisu's origin. It may have originated as a variation of another layered dessert, the Zuppa Inglese, and is an Italian version of the English trifle.[1]

DO YOU CAKE PEOPLE EVEN KNOW WHAT CAKE IS?

[Vampyr]

Lady fingers are sponge cakes - the rest of tiramisu is basically just icing. Saying that a cake isn't cake because it has custard on it is like saying a pie can't be a pie because it has apples in it. :mischief:

[Teuthida]

Funny, I thought someone who is an authority on food, and illustrates the SCIENTIFIC difference between cake and pie, would hold weight...


He knew he was on shaky ground so he had an Elvis impersonator do it for him. Plus "Brown says that he was a poor science student in high school and college..."

And now it also appears that you're basing your entire argument on one type of pie that isn't even called pie.

I'll just leave this here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cakes

Look at all those glorious cakes.



Now let's take a look at all those...um....crusty meats....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pies

[Professor S]

Lady fingers are sponge cakes - the rest of tiramisu is basically just icing. Saying that a cake isn't cake because it has custard on it is like saying a pie can't be a pie because it has apples in it. :mischief:

According to the Tirimisu Wiki they are in fact biscuits, the European name for cookies.

It is made of biscuits (usually savoiardi) dipped in coffee, layered with a whipped mixture of egg yolks and mascarpone, and flavored with liquor and cocoa

And NO, custard is not icing and it is not comprable to apples in an apple pie.

It is a trifle. You are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.

Teuth, you argument against Alton Brown is absurd, and a tacit admission of failure. Since the argument has reduced to absurdities and deliberate lies, I will leave it.

The best cake is a pie.

Good day. Enjoy your pie.

[Teuthida]

Enjoy your cheesecake. The only decent pie. Don't get bored now.

*goes to survey the wonderful world of cake*

[Vampyr]

According to the Tirimisu Wiki they are in fact biscuits, the European name for cookies.



And NO, custard is not icing and it is not comprable to apples in an apple pie.

It is a trifle. You are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.

Teuth, you argument against Alton Brown is absurd, and a tacit admission of failure. Since the argument has reduced to absurdities and deliberate lies, I will leave it.

The best cake is a pie.

Good day. Enjoy your pie.

That line you are quoting from wikipedia is immediately preceded by this line:

Tiramisu (Italian: tiramisù; Venetian: tiramesù [tirameˈsu]; literally "pull me up") is one of the most popular Italian cakes.

[Professor S]

To separate the ignorant from the informed...

http://whatscookingamerica.net/History/Cakes/Tiramisu.htm

Tiramisu (tih-ruh-mee-SOO) - The Italian translation for tiramisu is "carry me up."

Also known as Tuscan Trifle. Tradition tiramisu is a pudding-like dessert that usually consists of sponge cake or ladyfingers dipped in a liqueur, then layered with grated chocolate and rich custard. Tiramisu was originally made as a loose custard, it is only in recent years that using mascarpone cheese has come into fashion.

And before you say it: Yes, a Tiramisu can have sponge cake in it, but that does NOT make it cake, just as a ham sandwich is NOT a ham. Hell, this even proves my point further. They have to use custard and booze to make cake more appealing...

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[Vampyr]

If we are requiring the dessert to be reduced down to it's distinguishing component in order to be labeled that type of dessert, then cake would become plain cake (sweet, but no extra flavors), and pie would just become crust.

[TheSlyMoogle]

Wow you Cake kids are really reaching these days.

Too bad Prof is da best at Pie arguments.

Someday cake kids, someday perhaps a cake will come along to save you from tasting terrible. Carrot cake was a good shot. So maybe.

[BreakABone]

Wow you Cake kids are really reaching these days.

Too bad Prof is da best at Pie arguments.

Someday cake kids, someday perhaps a cake will come along to save you from tasting terrible. Carrot cake was a good shot. So maybe.

We've got a ton of great tasting stuff on our side, you have cheesecake....

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_XQqmrnb_AiI/R19KrV1QrPI/AAAAAAAAAnY/1x9NGzv2JKM/s320/Red%2520Velvet%2520cake.jpg

[Fox 6]

Cake is even better on the small scale. Tarts blow chunks. Cupcakes for life.

[TheSlyMoogle]

Lol red velvet cake is terrible. Absolutely terrible.

Also Pie would never dry out and get yucky like cake. Nasty fucking cake.

[Teuthida]

Yes, fruit neeevvvveeeerrrr goes bad. :rolleyes: And pie crust is always minutes away from turning soggy or becoming teethbreakingly hard.

http://i.imgur.com/EeID7.jpg

/thread

[BreakABone]

Lol red velvet cake is terrible. Absolutely terrible.

Also Pie would never dry out and get yucky like cake. Nasty fucking cake.

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Red Velvet is awesome, just proves your tastebuds are screwed.

[Fox 6]

Saw this on The Chive

game, set, cakes.

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=319763&id=235374096741&saved

[Professor S]

Someday cake kids, someday perhaps a cake will come along to save you from tasting terrible. Carrot cake was a good shot. So maybe.

Carrot cake is very good, but only because it has many pie-like qualities.

[Teuthida]

And how is this like a pie pray tell?

http://cdn.sheknows.com/articles/crave/carrot-cake-600.jpg

[Professor S]

And how is this like a pie pray tell?

http://cdn.sheknows.com/articles/crave/carrot-cake-600.jpg

1) Use of a vegetable/fruit/nuts as an integral part of the whole, not just a topping.

2) Cream cheese icing, that is reminiscent of Cheesecake pie.

It is a cake, but it has pie qualities that make it transcend cake and nearly elevate itself to pie status... but not quite.

And there is no need to cram it into a pirate ship mold to make it more attractive to children...

[Teuthida]

So by your "logic" something is pie-like because it contains a vegetable/fruit/nuts and cream cheese?

You know what else is like pie then? Ice cream. Also, fruit salad. Ooh, trailmix. All those nuts. When one eats pea soup or has a bagel, one should immediately think of pie.

Vegetable cream cheese on a bagel. Can't get more pie than that! No.

You have no argument.

[Professor S]

So by your "logic" something is pie-like because it contains a vegetable/fruit/nuts and cream cheese?

You know what else is like pie then? Ice cream. Also, fruit salad. Ooh, trailmix. All those nuts. When one eats pea soup or has a bagel, one should immediately think of pie.

Vegetable cream cheese on a bagel. Can't get more pie than that! No.

You have no argument.

Even if you disagree with me on this, what does it have to do with the pie vs. cake disagreement? Trying to distract us from the insane illogical meanderings of you and your fellow cake-people?

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[Vampyr]

On a whim I typed "define cake" into Google.

a block of solid substance (such as soap or wax); "a bar of chocolate"

All pies are in fact cake.

/win

[Professor S]

On a whim I typed "define cake" into Google.



All pies are in fact cake.

/win

Is this how desperate you cake-boyz are? You have to look to definitions beyond culinary in a flailing attempt at validity? Even in that you fail.

Pie is by no means solid, but instead most are SUSPENSION of solids in a semi-viscous LIQUID.

http://simplyrecipes.com/photos/pear-ginger-maple-pie.jpg

See how is almost falls apart and the delicious juices and sweet decadent sauce spill onto the plate. This sir, is no mere cake.

Meanwhile, as stated in your quote, cake is in in fact "soap or wax"

Delicious? I think not.

[BreakABone]

Even if you disagree with me on this, what does it have to do with the pie vs. cake disagreement? Trying to distract us from the insane illogical meanderings of you and your fellow cake-people?



How didn't his reply have to do with the cake vs pie argument?

You mentioned how carrot cake is more like a pie based on several criteria so he took your argument to the logical and extreme end to prove the fallacy in it.

If the only requirement to be a pie was that it had fruit/veggies or whatever and cream cheese, then reason would be that other things with those qualities could also be considered pie or pie like. Since they aren't it disputes your claims about carrot cake being pie like.

Anyhow, I still think cake win for variety and aesthetics. Pies are nice, but they aren't really that special.

Cake is iconic.

[Teuthida]

Pie is by no means solid, but instead most are SUSPENSION of solids in a semi-viscous LIQUID.

See how is almost falls apart and the delicious juices and sweet decadent sauce spill onto the plate.


And yet your favorite pie, cheesecake, does not follow those conventions at all. Cheesecake is more of a solid than most other cakes.

Trying to distract us from the insane illogical meanderings of you and your fellow cake-people?

"Distract" says the fellow endlessly posting videos.

[TheSlyMoogle]

Where was it ever stated that prof's fave pie is cheesecake?

[Teuthida]

Stated was the best.

What is the best cake?

Cheese... and that is a CUSTARD PIE!

[KillerGremlin]

And yet your favorite pie, cheesecake, does not follow those conventions at all. Cheesecake is more of a solid than most other cakes.



"Distract" says the fellow endlessly posting videos.

In my experience cheesecake is best when it has some moisture and is not dried out and solid. I hate dry cheesecake. Cheesecake is a pie that hasn't come out of the closet yet:

Has a crust - check
Has a gooey filling placed on top of the crust - check
Often is covered with fruits or contains other typical pie elements (cherry, strawberry, blueberry) - check
Often has whipped cream placed on top - check

Additionally, the filling in cheesecake is not made conventional cake-style, it is baked more along the lines of pie filling.

:p

[Professor S]

Stated was the best.

That was an objective observation. I personally do not prefer Cheesecake pie. My favorite is Apple pie, namely, my mom's Apple pie. My second favorite pie is Pumpkin.

But yes, Cheesecake is a kind of suspension, structurally. What makes it keep shape is the setting of egg proteins that capture liquid, therefore keeping its pleasant texture that rides the line between solid and liquid. But it is not a solid.

Cake on the other hand is also held together by protein, but adds starch. It does not trap liquid, but instead the chemical leavening agents create tiny air bubbles that give cake its texture.

So really, cake and cheesecake/custard pie are dessert opposites. Pie is filled with delicious sauce and syrup, while cake is filled with hot air.

[Fox 6]

Pie is filled with delicious sauce and syrup, while pie is filled with hot air.

You're making up so much that you have even confused yourself Prof.

[BreakABone]

You're making up so much that you have even confused yourself Prof.

I think that pretty much sums up the thread.

We can close up shop.

Team Cake wins.

[Professor S]

I think that pretty much sums up the thread.

We can close up shop.

Team Cake wins.

Only in your confused, emaciated little minds. My typo does not invalidate the evisceration your beloved foodstuff just received. So much so that you abandoned your arguments to bring attention to a misstatement.

Victory, your name is pie.

[Fox 6]

I see it as more of a Freudian slip. You know youve put pie into such a false spotlight that even you think youre "Full of hot air"

[Professor S]

I see it as more of a Freudian slip. You know youve put pie into such a false spotlight that even you think youre "Full of hot air"

You cannot make a factual Freudian slip. Cake is LITERALLY filled with hot air. That is what makes it rise. Pie does not rise, it does not need to, because it has already "risen" to the heights of immortality.

[Teuthida]

That was an objective observation. I personally do not prefer Cheesecake pie. My favorite is Apple pie, namely, my mom's Apple pie.

Apples in crust eh? How about apples in muthafuckin' cake?!

http://www.hollandsbest.com/bakery/images/bakery_107_apple_taart.jpg http://www.juliebiuso.com/images/recipes/DeloresAppleCake.jpg

http://sunnysideellen.files.wordpress.com/2007/02/blog130207-002_edited.jpg

http://tofufortwo.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/whole_apple_cake.jpg

Booyah! (http://www.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&biw=1440&bih=720&tbs=isch%3A1&sa=1&q=%22apple+cake%22&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=g8g-m2&aql=&oq=)

[Professor S]

Apples in crust eh? How about apples in muthafuckin' cake?!

http://www.hollandsbest.com/bakery/images/bakery_107_apple_taart.jpg http://www.juliebiuso.com/images/recipes/DeloresAppleCake.jpg

http://sunnysideellen.files.wordpress.com/2007/02/blog130207-002_edited.jpg

http://tofufortwo.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/whole_apple_cake.jpg

Booyah! (http://www.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&biw=1440&bih=720&tbs=isch%3A1&sa=1&q=%22apple+cake%22&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=g8g-m2&aql=&oq=)

Good for you. What is your point? I said nothing about "apples in crust", my comments were about how pie and cakes are structurally different, and that pie is not a solid.

Apples being in cake does not make it rise and set any differently.

[Teuthida]

Soooooo is that defeat? Because you really haven't had any convincing arguments other than you like the stuff your family bakes. Which is fine if that's your preference. Just know you're wrong. ;)

[Professor S]

Soooooo is that defeat? Because you really haven't had any convincing arguments other than you like the stuff your family bakes. Which is fine if that's your preference. Just know you're wrong. ;)

Have been paying attention? You still have not successfully addressed the Cheesecake Revelation. The world's most popular "cake" is in fact a pie. We have pages and pages of cake people attempting to nullify this argument unsuccessfully, and even had a ridiculous attempt to REDEFINE pie as cake (by the definition offered the Earth would be cake).

There is no defeat beyond your avoidance of reality.

[BreakABone]

Have been paying attention? You still have not successfully addressed the Cheesecake Revelation. The world's most popular "cake" is in fact a pie. We have pages and pages of cake people attempting to nullify this argument unsuccessfully, and even had a ridiculous attempt to REDEFINE pie as cake (by the definition offered the Earth would be cake).

There is no defeat beyond your avoidance of reality.

We've.. er addressed cheesecake several times in this thread.

The best thing to say is that cheesecake wanted to be so loved, that it had to lie about being a cake so people would accept it!