Donkey Kong Country Returns

[BreakABone]

Surprised we don't have a thread for this or is search still bonked?

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Anyhow, never the biggest fan of the series, but I do love Retro Studios so yeah

[Angrist]

This started as what I thought should be a WiiWare title, but the game looks so much more fun than expected. I'll have to get it!

[Jason1]

I just really hope Retro doesent make the game too easy...it needs to be as difficult as the old Donkey Kong games. I have faith Retro will do this.

[BreakABone]

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Some new game play
Shows there is a lot going on.

[Bube]

I just really hope Retro doesent make the game too easy...it needs to be as difficult as the old Donkey Kong games. I have faith Retro will do this.
Actually., if you go back and play the original games, they aren't really that hard. They probably seemed very hard at the time, but right now, they aren't that much of a challenge.

Finding all the bonus games and secrets are a different story though, I hope they get that part right.

[Storm Eagle]

I just really hope Retro doesn't make the game too easy...it needs to be as difficult as the old Donkey Kong games. I have faith Retro will do this.

Which one did you think was the most difficult?

I'll have to look out for this one too. When I first read about it, I played the three DKC games to psych me up.

[Angrist]

I read that Retro made this game with speed runs and collecting stuff in mind.

[Blix]

It looks as fun as the very first Donkey Kong Country. And man I played that game hours on end and kept going back to the levels. Even after I beat it I kept playing that game for like a year, going back to it every now and then. =D Addicting stuff.

[Jason1]

Which one did you think was the most difficult?

I'll have to look out for this one too. When I first read about it, I played the three DKC games to psych me up.

Honesty its been so long since ive played them I really dont remember. Actually I take that back I have played the original within the past 6 months or so...and it was tough. Cant remember if the others were any harder or what, but bottom line they were difficult.

[BreakABone]

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And another new trailer
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[Jason1]

This looks amazing, I cant wait for it. Retro can do no wrong!

[Bube]

I thought this would be a downloadable game. I was disappointed to see the DVD box, lol :)

[Angrist]

Reviews!
Eurogamer (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-11-19-donkey-kong-country-returns-review) 9
IGN (http://uk.wii.ign.com/articles/113/1135734p1.html) 9.0
Add more!

[Dyne]

Ooooh man. I really need to finish Metroid: Other M so I can buy this.

[Bube]

I really wish this was a portable game. It would've been soooo great!

Still, it's a must-have for me right now.

[BreakABone]

Just beat world 1, fun little game, some cool scenes, but using an analog stick is iffy, gonna try with wii-mote held sideways.

[Dyne]

How do you ground-pound if you hold it sideways? I did the mote/chuk combination at PAX and it felt pretty good.

[BreakABone]

How do you ground-pound if you hold it sideways? I did the mote/chuk combination at PAX and it felt pretty good.

You shake the wii-mote, think of spin move in NSMBW, and I think motion right now is my biggest gripe with the game.

You shake to do a roll/blow things/ground pound and sometimes, one triggers when you don't want, which sure will be an issue later on.

[Bube]

Can you use a Gamecube controller with it? Or at least a classic controller?

[Angrist]

Nope. :(

[TheSlyMoogle]

Played demo, loved music, graphics feel of the game in general. Then...theeeeeeeeen came the fucking motion controls. I fucking knew it was too good to be true. If I could just play it on a cube controller. I mean would it really have been that hard for the fucks to put in gamecube controls.

[Jason1]

Im going to wait to get this one as an Xmas gift. Im so glad its still difficult though. Right now im playing through Castlevania Lord of Shadows, and I actually think it is somewhat Underrated. Its WAY longer than God of War for one thing, graphics are almost as good, and the puzzles are better. Combat I feel is about on par. It's a lot of fun!

[BreakABone]

Played demo, loved music, graphics feel of the game in general. Then...theeeeeeeeen came the fucking motion controls. I fucking knew it was too good to be true. If I could just play it on a cube controller. I mean would it really have been that hard for the fucks to put in gamecube controls.

I'll agree and disagree with you here.

I'll admit this is one of the games, where I think the motion is just meh. Like wouldn't mind it for the ground pound, but to map the roll/ground pound/blow all to the same motion was dumb. Its not as responsive when want to do a roll and sometimes end up doing ground pound or vice versa

Doing Cube support, really doesn't benefit anyone here. I mean just doing Wii-mote chuck or wii-mote sideways gives you the same option as Cube controller, and it is the Wii controller. Preference or not

[Vampyr]

Except that the gamecube controller is actually comfortable to hold.

[BreakABone]

Except that the gamecube controller is actually comfortable to hold.

And this all boils down to opinions.

I mean I don't see what's the major difference is between the two nor do I use the Cube controller for many Wii games outside of Smash Bros.

The fact is the Wii-mote is the standard controller for their console, anything else is just a leisure, so as they see fit.

[Vampyr]

And this all boils down to opinions.

I mean I don't see what's the major difference is between the two nor do I use the Cube controller for many Wii games outside of Smash Bros.

The fact is the Wii-mote is the standard controller for their console, anything else is just a leisure, so as they see fit.

Most people, from what I've heard, have the opinion that holding a gamecube controller is more comfortable than holding a wii mote sideways or a wii mote + nun chuck. Therefore having gamecube controller support would benefit someone.

Also I find it very hard to believe that adding in support for a gamecube controller is a difficult thing to do.

[Storm Eagle]

I might as well put my two cents in. I got the game on Sunday when it came out, and I've bee playing it quite a bit since I was off from work this whole week. My only gripe so far is having to shake the controller to do a roll. It's kind of annoying to have to roll that way when you're doing it to pick up an item over the middle of a pitfall.

I'm only up to the Ruins area so far, and I seem to be doing quite well in finding some of the things.

It's a decent game, but it doesn't exactly take me back to the old days of DKC. I guess in order for that to happen for me, I'd have to actually play those games, and I have done so a few months back. So far, DKC2 still reigns supreme in my opinion.

[Vampyr]

Maybe they'll patch in different controller support?

See what I did there?

[BreakABone]

Maybe they'll patch in different controller support?

See what I did there?

If you care so much, here you go

USE A CLASSIC CONTROLLER IN DONKEY KONG COUNTRY RETURNS

I'm pretty sure that this will only work with the USA version of the game but I haven't tested it.

If you want to try, I have two separate configs so far. One that puts [waggle on R, 1 on Y and 2 on B], the other switches waggle to A instead.

Requires: Hacked Wii, the latest version of Gecko OS (I used 1.9.3), the PC version of Ocarina Code Manager (I got it here: http://wiird.l0nk.org/ocarina.zip )

Extract the Code Manager zip anywhere on your computer, go into the pc subfolder and run codemgr.exe

When it opens, enter the Game ID as SF8E01
Click Add a Code/Comment/Category. The name is arbitrary but I used Classic Controller
Click on the Classic Controller cheat that just appeared.
Game Name is arbitrary but you can use Donkey Kong Country Returns

You paste one of the two codes into the Code Contents section depending on which configuration you want to use. The first code will put waggle on R, 1 on Y and 2 on B. The second code switches waggle to A instead of R:

C24A3FC0 00000020
38210050 7C0802A6
80B50060 48000041
80950000 7CA52378
90B50000 80B50064
4800002D 80950004
7CA52378 90B50004
80B50068 48000019
80950008 7CA52378
90B50008 7C0803A6
4E800020 70A40200
2C040000 4182000C
38C0012D B0D50186
38C00000 70A40800
2C040000 41820008
60C68000 70A40020
2C040000 41820008
60C60200 70A40040
2C040000 41820008
60C60100 70A40001
2C040000 41820008
60C60002 70A40002
2C040000 41820008
60C60008 70A48000
2C040000 41820008
60C60004 70A44000
2C040000 41820008
60C60001 70A40400
2C040000 41820008
60C60010 70A41000
2C040000 41820008
60C61000 7CC53378
60000000 00000000
04387CF0 38A00000
0438526C 28000009



C24A3FC0 00000020
38210050 7C0802A6
80B50060 48000041
80950000 7CA52378
90B50000 80B50064
4800002D 80950004
7CA52378 90B50004
80B50068 48000019
80950008 7CA52378
90B50008 7C0803A6
4E800020 70A40010
2C040000 4182000C
38C0012D B0D50186
38C00000 70A40800
2C040000 41820008
60C68000 70A40020
2C040000 41820008
60C60200 70A40040
2C040000 41820008
60C60100 70A40001
2C040000 41820008
60C60002 70A40002
2C040000 41820008
60C60008 70A48000
2C040000 41820008
60C60004 70A44000
2C040000 41820008
60C60001 70A40400
2C040000 41820008
60C60010 70A41000
2C040000 41820008
60C61000 7CC53378
60000000 00000000
04387CF0 38A00000
0438526C 28000009



Click Store Modifications
Check the box next to Classic Controller
Click Export to GCT (say Yes to the popup that asks if you want to store modifications), choose the appropriate drive letter for your memory card, click Store.

Load up Gecko OS and make sure that the Use SD Cheats option is turned on in the configuration menu. If it is, the code should be detected at launch.

If you get an error message about the controller being unrecognized or something, you're going to have to edit a few of those hex codes. I think it has something to do with the version of the game you're running. Version 1 or 2 (I apparently have version 1). Please see this thread for more information: http://wiird.l0nk.org/forum/index.php/topic,7134.120.html

edit: But just to have everything in this post, I'm pretty sure I know how this Version 1, Version 2 thing goes. If you have version 2 (I don't know how to check for this before testing a code), you'll have to change the first line in the code as well as the last two.

Again, the codes I posted are for version 1. If they don't work for you,
change the first line from C24A3FC0 00000020 to C24A5F70 00000020

Change the second to last line from 04387CF0 38A00000 to 04389B90 38A00000

Change the last line from 0438526C 28000009 to 0438710C 28000009

[Vampyr]

Yeah...not going to do that.

It just blows my mind that they don't offer a non motion alternative in a (difficult) game where timing is important. Felt the same way about Galaxy, the motion controls just get in the way - they don't increase immersion, fun, or anything. I always feel like I'm playing a game that would be a little bit better if they removed the motion controls.

[Typhoid]

So basically what I've gathered from reading this thread is that people are upset it wasn't released for the Gamecube, instead of the Wii.

[Vampyr]

I must have missed the memo where if you're a Wii game you absolutely have to have motion controls with no alternatives.

It's as annoying to me as if they released an FPS that didn't let you invert the camera.

[BreakABone]

I must have missed the memo where if you're a Wii game you absolutely have to have motion controls with no alternatives.

It's as annoying to me as if they released an FPS that didn't let you invert the camera.

I believe the memo was.. when the Wii was announced. It's the whole basis of the console.

Listen, I'm not arguing over the motion controls in this game, I don't like em either, but I think its dumb to ask a company when moving forward to keep their feet in the past all the time. Its like when people ask for KB M on the PS3, sure developers can do it, but that's not the standard.

Its been 4 years now, if you don't know what you are getting with a Wii game you probably aren't fast on the draw. Like I said and could be wrong, the only Nintendo games to offer Classic Control/Cube support this gen have been Brawl and Kart. They've kind of moved on from offering that support.

[Typhoid]

I'm with Babsy on this one. The Wii was built for motion controls. It was the entire point of the system. To release it, then take a step back by having everyone just use an old controller would be dumb.

"Hey guys, we released this really revolutionary system that uses motion controls, but let's just let everyone use a normal controller and bypass the entire concept of our system!"

[Angrist]

I personally love Wiimote + Nunchuck, for me it's more comfortable than the Cubetroller.

But I still think they should have added a few more control options. It takes 15 minutes to program but makes a lot of gamers happy.

[Vampyr]

Then they shouldn't have put four Gamecube controller ports on it.

[BreakABone]

Then they shouldn't have put four Gamecube controller ports on it.

They put 4 Cube ports on it because the console is backwards comp with the Cube....

[Vampyr]

They put 4 Cube ports on it because the console is backwards comp with the Cube....

So they are keeping a foot in the past.

Look, if you release a system that you went out of the way to place hardware on to support an entirely different controller and you release several games with options to use that controller (and gamers thank you for it), I have no idea why you would stop doing it.

[BreakABone]

So they are keeping a foot in the past.

Look, if you release a system that you went out of the way to place hardware on to support an entirely different controller and you release several games with options to use that controller (and gamers thank you for it), I have no idea why you would stop doing it.

They've done it twice, out of how many games?
And that was time was 2 1/2 years ago?

Do you also wish they supported Gamecube memory cards?

Really if you wanted to make a better case, I would use the Classic controller, which works with this gen because it was released this gen.

They left the Cube ports in because they have BC in their console, Sony would have to do the same thing if they ever changed their controller.

Personally, I still think its a dumb notion to ask a company to remain in the past only because you aren't comfortable moving forward with them. Especially since it has been 4 years and you really know what to expect from the console by now.

[Angrist]

I'm really with Vampy here... If people are asking for Cubetroller compatibility, it shows Nintendo might be wrong about their recent views. And shouldn't they be about making as much money as possible? How is disabling Cubetroller support helping with that?

[Vampyr]

I'm really with Vampy here... If people are asking for Cubetroller compatibility, it shows Nintendo might be wrong about their recent views. And shouldn't they be about making as much money as possible? How is disabling Cubetroller support helping with that?

Exactly - I'm not going to buy their game because of this. If I get it as a Christmas gift, fine I'll play it, but I'm not going to go out and buy it. I can't play a timing based game when I can't properly time my actions because of the buffer and unpredictability of motion controls.

It isn't that I'm refusing to move forward with them - I think that motion controls have their place. I like using the wheel on Mario Kart if I'm in the mood for something different or if I'm playing with friends. I'm also going to buy Mario Party soon, and that seems like a game where motion controls would be really fun. Wii Sports would be very un-fun without motion controls.

New Super Mario Bros Wii - the motion controls were used for -one- action. That was fine, it didn't bother me. I probably would have preferred a button combination, but I could deal with that.

Also, classic controller support would be totally okay with me. I own a classic controller, it feels good. The point is I want an alternative to the motion controls - I was saying GCN controller because that's what Moogle initially mentioned.

I would probably end up playing with the motion controls occasionally, just for variety, but it's not my ideal way to play a game like that.

Also it was more than two games, I can think of at least one other: Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn. So there are probably others as well.

I think the problem here is that some people feel like they have an obligation to help make a game better by trying to enjoy these controls ("moving forward with them"). You don't. You're paying Nintendo for this product, it's their job to make it as enjoyable as possible.

[BreakABone]

Exactly - I'm not going to buy their game because of this. If I get it as a Christmas gift, fine I'll play it, but I'm not going to go out and buy it. I can't play a timing based game when I can't properly time my actions because of the buffer and unpredictability of motion controls.

It isn't that I'm refusing to move forward with them - I think that motion controls have their place. I like using the wheel on Mario Kart if I'm in the mood for something different or if I'm playing with friends. I'm also going to buy Mario Party soon, and that seems like a game where motion controls would be really fun. Wii Sports would be very un-fun without motion controls.

New Super Mario Bros Wii - the motion controls were used for -one- action. That was fine, it didn't bother me. I probably would have preferred a button combination, but I could deal with that.

Also, classic controller support would be totally okay with me. I own a classic controller, it feels good. The point is I want an alternative to the motion controls - I was saying GCN controller because that's what Moogle initially mentioned.

I would probably end up playing with the motion controls occasionally, just for variety, but it's not my ideal way to play a game like that.

Also it was more than two games, I can think of at least one other: Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn. So there are probably others as well.

I think the problem here is that some people feel like they have an obligation to help make a game better by trying to enjoy these controls ("moving forward with them"). You don't. You're paying Nintendo for this product, it's their job to make it as enjoyable as possible.

Just so we're clear you haven't played the game yet so you are only complaining based on hearsay?

Anyhow, as I mentioned before I actually do have issues with the motion controls in this game, but that isn't what you are arguing at all.

You are saying that they should offer a whole new control scheme for the game when the simplest solution would have been to include a Wii-mote/chuck combination that doesn't include motion. That I would have accepted, but to say that Nintendo should continue to cater to people who can't change their habits is just a terrible business practice.

Okay here is a list of Nintendo published games that use the Cube controller:
Fire Emblem
Mario Kart Wii
Samurai Warriors 3
Super Smash Bros Brawl
Super Mario Bros Anniversary
Zangeki no Reginleiv

There you go, 6 games in 4 years, 4 of which were released at least 2 years ago, 1 of which is just a port of NES games and one that probably will never see the light of day beyond Japan.

Compare that to the other two dozen or so games they released without Cube controller support, kind of shows you they weren't messing around with the idea.

As for the rest of the statement, I'm just not gonna bother with that so meh.

[Angrist]

I think you're missing the point here now BaB. This isn't about changing a habit, it's about controls that don't suit the game. The DKC games were always played with a SNES controller. I would personally play this game with the Classic Controller if it was supported, because I think it would be comfortable.

Apparently Nintendo haven't found a good replacement for the Cubetroller, because lots of people still use it. Until they do (Yuu?), why not offer the extra control options? Are they honestly thinking it would hold gamers back? Give them some more credit, they know when motion controls work and when they don't. Nintendo is just being too stubborn, like with a lot of stuff.

And this is coming from a huge Nintendo fan.

[Vampyr]

Just so we're clear you haven't played the game yet so you are only complaining based on hearsay?

No, I haven't, and now I probably never will. I'm basing my assessment on my previous experience with motion controls and platforming, as well as feedback from others (including you).


Anyhow, as I mentioned before I actually do have issues with the motion controls in this game, but that isn't what you are arguing at all.

You are saying that they should offer a whole new control scheme for the game when the simplest solution would have been to include a Wii-mote/chuck combination that doesn't include motion. That I would have accepted, but to say that Nintendo should continue to cater to people who can't change their habits is just a terrible business practice.


Yes, that is what I'm arguing. How is having a controller scheme with the nunchuck any more simple than a controller scheme with the classic controller? Both are addons that you plug into the bottom of a wii mote, except one has a d-pad that you could have used, which solves your initial problem of not enjoying the analog stick.

And since when is it terrible business practice to do things to get more people to buy your game?

Controller options are extremely important. How many games out there let you customize some or all of your button configuration? Almost all of them. Fighting games provide extremely fine grain customization, while others give you a few different layouts to choose from. I don't see how or why this is any different - I have come to expect video game makers to give me options when it comes to controls. The first thing I do on any game is invert the y-axis. I have a couple of friends who play with the "bumper jumper" layout on Halo.

A good business strategy is to be competitive. Other developers let you choose your controls, Nintendo should too. It isn't my fault that those controller options happen to span 3 or 4 devices; but even so it isn't any more expensive for Nintendo to support those devices.

[Typhoid]

How many games out there let you customize some or all of your button configuration? Almost all of them. Fighting games provide extremely fine grain customization, while others give you a few different layouts to choose from. I don't see how or why this is any different - I have come to expect video game makers to give me options when it comes to controls. The first thing I do on any game is invert the y-axis. I have a couple of friends who play with the "bumper jumper" layout on Halo.



Yes - but how many consoles let you use different controllers?

The Wii is for motion controls. That's why it was made - and that was the basis of the concept for the games. Like Babs' said, it has GC ports because it's backwards compatible - not because they want to negate motion controls and let you play Madworld on a GC controller.

While in the past I've said time and time again that people don't like motion controls that much (and this thread is clearly proof) I do think people who complain about not being able to use a controller for a motion-based console are just being huge babies. What did you expect? It's a Wii. It's built for motion control. If you picked up the Kinect, are you going to complain in 4 months about how every game requires you to move for it, and how it would be way better if you could just somehow sit down and use a normal 360 controller?

If you don't like the fact the Wii is a motion control console - sell your Wii. There isn't much point in having a console that's heavy on swinging your arms, if you just want to sit there and twiddle your thumbs, and then complain about why they released a system with motion controls.

[Vampyr]

By releasing some games, even just a few, like Kart and Brawl, with the option to use different controllers/formats, they created that expectation. And I love those games - I played Mario Kart Wii just yesterday (I used a gcn controller).

I see the Wii as a system with motion controls, not a motion control system. I feel like it's in everyone's best interest (both the players and Nintendo), to provide plenty of control options for any given game. If the motion controls are good and they work and are fun, people will use them. If they aren't, people won't, and if you don't provide any other alternative, people won't buy the game, just like I'm doing.

Controls are the single most important aspect of a game - it's your interface into that world. It's just something I can't look past.

A good example of what I mean is the DS, almost every DS game except the ones that use touching as a game component, give you alternatives. Often I use a combination of buttons and the touch screen. Giving players this option, and not forcing them to use the touch screen, has not been detrimental to the system at all.

[Typhoid]

Kart and Brawl are 2 of the best selling games that Nintendo has, not to mention they were released roughly around the beginning of the consoles life. By not having the use of a Gamecube controllers on those games would have been a really bad move sales-wise, as those games were really huge during the Gamecube's run. Donkey Kong Country, however - was not. So there are no die-hard DKC fans who stayed up late nights perfecting thumb twitches with a Gamecube controller. SNES controller, sure.

But I don't see what the problem is with DKCR. Much like New Super Mario Bros Wii, Either get used to the controls they have available (Like using the wiimote sideways, for example) - or just don't play the game.

[Angrist]

If you don't like the fact the Wii is a motion control console - sell your Wii.So how is encouraging people to sell their Wii a good strategy for Nintendo? They want to make money; they know there's an audience that would rather use buttons instead of gestures...

It's like that story a while back where Nintendo encouraged Eurocom to 'innovate the controls' in the Golden Eye remake. They ended up with some tacked on, crappy option to strafe by holding the A-button. Something similar worked for Metroid 1 & 2, but guess why it wasn't in MP3. It's a stupid option that nobody will use.
But hey, at least they're letting you choose.

Now with DKCR, Nintendo probably told Retro "add motion controls." Although they prefered rolling/pounding/blowing with a button, they had to map that to a gesture. And because of that, they had to disable GC/CC support. Yay, Wii is a motion console, whether it works or not!! :unsure:

[Typhoid]

So how is encouraging people to sell their Wii a good strategy for Nintendo? They want to make money; they know there's an audience that would rather use buttons instead of gestures...

They aren't encouraging you to sell your Wii. I am. If you don't like what is out for the Wii, or you don't like the way the system is played - stop complaining and get rid of your system - because you (the people who complain about the controls) clearly don't like it as a whole.


Angrist, I don't think you're understanding why Mario Kart Wii and Smash Bros have GC controls, and other games don't.

Those games were huge last gen for Nintendo. And everyone who played those games played them on GC controllers. The reason it's an option for those games is because everyone who played them previous - played them with a Gamecube controller.

However - nobody played Donkey Kong Country (or Super Mario Bros, for that matter) on a Gamecube controller. They aren't alienating anyone by not using a Gamecube controller. The last time people played DKC was with an SNES (Same for Super Mario bros), so by allowing you to tilt the controller on it's side, it has much of the same (relative) layout as the previous installments of those specific games.

Now, if DKC and Super Mario Bros. were out for the Gamecube, then sure - you guys would have a compelling argument and some type of case. But since DKC hasn't been around since the SNES, your collective complaining just seems pointless.

[Angrist]

I'm not talking about MKW and SSBB. I'm talking about the best controls for a game, and offering mutliple options just to please fans (and increase sales).

I suspect that for NSMBWii, which is a 4-player game, the lack of GC support is there to push Wiimote sales. I understand that, although I don't like it.
But with DKC 99% of the people will already have 2 Wiimotes.

The Classic Controller was made with classic games in mind. DKC is a very classic game, but it doesn't support the controller. Why? Because of 1 tacked on waggle that a lot of gamers say doesn't work well.

[BreakABone]

I think you're missing the point here now BaB. This isn't about changing a habit, it's about controls that don't suit the game. The DKC games were always played with a SNES controller. I would personally play this game with the Classic Controller if it was supported, because I think it would be comfortable.
Okay I will say this again, this isn't really about Donkey Kong Country Returns alone, its about the general notion that Nintendo should include Cube/Classic Controller support in their games because people prefer it.
Replace DKCR with Galaxy, NSMBW, Kirby, Metroid, etc etc


Apparently Nintendo haven't found a good replacement for the Cubetroller, because lots of people still use it. Until they do (Yuu?), why not offer the extra control options? Are they honestly thinking it would hold gamers back? Give them some more credit, they know when motion controls work and when they don't. Nintendo is just being too stubborn, like with a lot of stuff.

Is Nintendo being stubborn or are gamers being stubborn?
How many years can people hold their breathes, Nintendo's not treating us right. We want Cube/classic/PS3/360 type controls in our game, and they shown time and time again they won't do it. Again Prime 3, Zelda, Galaxy 1/2, Endless Ocean, Kirby, Other M, the list goes on and on.

No, I haven't, and now I probably never will. I'm basing my assessment on my previous experience with motion controls and platforming, as well as feedback from others (including you).
Which is perfectly fine I guess, but I find it odd that someone throws a stink about something when technically they haven't played it. I mean for all you know, it could work better for you than it did for me.


Yes, that is what I'm arguing. How is having a controller scheme with the nunchuck any more simple than a controller scheme with the classic controller? Both are addons that you plug into the bottom of a wii mote, except one has a d-pad that you could have used, which solves your initial problem of not enjoying the analog stick.
The BIG difference between the chuck and the Classic Controller, and I'm sure you thought about this when posted, is one comes standard with the console, the other you have to buy on its own. They aren't comparable at all.

And since when is it terrible business practice to do things to get more people to buy your game?
So let me ask, would you advocate Microsoft get Epic to include Kinect controls in the next Gears of War? Or maybe a patch for Halo Reach? Both of those would help get new people to buy your game... I don't think it makes sense, but from your point of view, its terrible business not to.

Controller options are extremely important. How many games out there let you customize some or all of your button configuration? Almost all of them.
Before we continue, how many Nintendo games allow you to mess around with your buttons? I can be wrong but I can't think of many since the SNES, and even then most of their games didn't allow it. They've always been stubborn on button placement.


By releasing some games, even just a few, like Kart and Brawl, with the option to use different controllers/formats, they created that expectation. And I love those games - I played Mario Kart Wii just yesterday (I used a gcn controller). /quote]
I don't think Nintendo ever created those expectations, when you think about it, Brawl wasn't developed by them, even if it was of there doing, it was an outside studio for the most part.

And even with Mario Kart, I think the Wii controls took centerstage, and they threw a bone to the rest of the people. Personally, I really dislike the Cube controls for that game since they throw tricks onto the d-pad which I thought was an odd decision.

I see the Wii as a system with motion controls, not a motion control system. I feel like it's in everyone's best interest (both the players and Nintendo), to provide plenty of control options for any given game. If the motion controls are good and they work and are fun, people will use them. If they aren't, people won't, and if you don't provide any other alternative, people won't buy the game, just like I'm doing.
Your logic doesn't match the reality of the situation that most of their games are doing much better than the last two gens without the option for classic control support. And we won't even mention the gulf that is the difference between the console userbase they had on the Cube and the Wii.

Some people won't buy it, but how is that any different than any other game?


A good example of what I mean is the DS, almost every DS game except the ones that use touching as a game component, give you alternatives. Often I use a combination of buttons and the touch screen. Giving players this option, and not forcing them to use the touch screen, has not been detrimental to the system at all.
And that is because the DS includes buttons.

Like I said if you want Nintendo to offer options in their games that use the Wii-mote and Chuck without motion that is semi-viable.

To fix your DS analog, it would be like having a USB adapter to use your Cube controller on DS games instead of using the touch-screen/mic or the dual screen set up. Because you have to include a new party that isn't standard with the console.

So how is encouraging people to sell their Wii a good strategy for Nintendo? They want to make money; they know there's an audience that would rather use buttons instead of gestures...
Do they?
I mean if I'm Nintendo and I see that NSMBW has sold more than any Mario game in 15 years, I assume people want motion and they want 2D.
If I see TP sold better than Wind Waker, I assume people want motion in their Zelda games.
And it goes on and on down the list.
Motion controls haven't hurt the sales of any of their franchise this generation, aside from Metroid, but that's been on a downward slope since Prime.

It's like that story a while back where Nintendo encouraged Eurocom to 'innovate the controls' in the Golden Eye remake. They ended up with some tacked on, crappy option to strafe by holding the A-button. Something similar worked for Metroid 1 & 2, but guess why it wasn't in MP3. It's a stupid option that nobody will use.
But hey, at least they're letting you choose.
I'm not sure what you are talking about?
And I've played Goldeneye to completion, so explanation?

Now with DKCR, Nintendo probably told Retro "add motion controls." Although they prefered rolling/pounding/blowing with a button, they had to map that to a gesture. And because of that, they had to disable GC/CC support. Yay, Wii is a motion console, whether it works or not!! :unsure:
I could see the first part, but the 2nd part wasn't gonna happen. Even if it had no motion, I don't think Nintendo would have offered GC/CC support. A case could be made that Metroid: Other M has no motion but doesn't offer GCN/CC support.

And ground pound and blowing are perfectly suited for a control, they aren't anything you need to do in a pinch. The problem really comes from mapping all 3 actions to the same motion.

Long rant, shorter version.
I really don't get the point in not making your default controller, the default set up for your consoles and its game nor do I think you need to compensate for people who want other options. If the game benefits from it and doesn't hurt using it with the core control fine, but don't complain if its not there. Its not mandatory, and really other than the Wii, there is no other console that has ever allowed you to re-use controls.

[Angrist]

This is the Golden Eye thing I'm talking about: http://www.cubed3.com/news/14711/
There were some more articles on it but I don't have the time to look it up. In related news, the game will also receive a new control scheme that involves the Wii Remote, nunchuck but no sensor bar. The idea came about when Nintendo requested that developer Eurocom innovate the controls more.

And Metroid other M did use motion: IR aiming. It felt good for that game (at least I've heard no complaints). It also worked well for NSMBWii. But apparently not for DKCR, else we wouldn't have this discussion.

[Bube]

Whoa, you guys talk too much :p

I'll just say one thing and get out.

When I play with the Wii controller, which is split up into 2 different pieces that move independently from each other, I don't feel as if I'm in control of the controller, and in a way, the game. It just feels loose. In games like Mario Kart, SSB and stuff, I need to feel in control - these are fast paced games.

The same thing goes for 2D platformers - there are a lot of sections that need perfect timing, pinpoint jumping or crazy amounts of button pressing.

[Angrist]

I do love the split controller (Wiimote + nunchuck) for most games (Zelda, Mario Galaxy, Battalion Wars ii...).

When (not if) I get DKCR, I'll most probably play it with the remote in NES style. It looks like a game that's better with a D-pad.

[Storm Eagle]

I was playing on Sunday and got up to 7-5/Cog Jog. I had already gotten all the letters and puzzle pieces in that stage and the others before it. So after I got home from work, I just decided "what the heck" and went and completed all the remaining levels. So I finished it all last night. Even the Golden Palace.

In the Cliff area, 6-K/Perilous Passage has got to be the worst K level of them all. I mean, trying to escape all that lava while ascending, and those bats that follow you. Talk about a pain in the neck. Treacherous Track wasn't all that bad. Actually it must have been the only K level that didn't frustrate the hell out of me. I'm just glad that the game doesn't make you retrieve puzzle pieces again after losing lives in the stage in which they're found, like it does the letters. In 8-K/Five Monkey Trial, I NEEDED to get Diddy for this one, because it's way too easy to take hits in the last two parts. So the more hits I'm able to take while trying to finish that one, the better.

The rocket barrel stages are a pain, but 7-4/Gear Getaway and 8-2/Hot Rocket might have been the easiest ones for me to finish while getting all the puzzle pieces.

I tried finishing the Golden Palace with all five of its puzzle pieces. I can't believe how hard it was for me to get past the part with the three pillars with the exploding cherries on top. I only had Donkey Kong and I just couldn't make the jump with him. So I decided to get Diddy Kong from one of the levels and return to the Golden Palace level with him. Jumps from platform to platform were much easier that way. Now that I've finished the Golden Palace level, I've unlocked Mirror Mode, which I don't think I'm going to bother with. The levels were hard enough, and now they're reversing them, and making it so that only one hit can take you out, you can't use any items before going in the stages, and no help from Diddy? Yeah, no thanks. Though at least they don't make you get all the puzzle pieces and letters again.

[ZebraRampage]

I've been playing this game for a while and I'm currently in the Forest area. I don't really have any complaints with the controls like everyone else does. I use the Wii Remote sideways, because it feels most like the original DKC games. As mentioned, you do have to shake and hold left or right to roll, but it just became kind of natural after a while. I can't remember how rolling worked for this SNES, but I believe while you were running you'd let go of Y and then hold the direction and press Y again to make Donkey Kong roll. I guess that Nintendo could have brought that back, but it's fine how it is.

The music and the levels do bring back memories for me. I know that there are a lot of differences, but this game is great in my opinion. I also like that there's a co-op mode, because not enough games have that these days. All of the levels do have replay value, because you have to go back to get puzzle pieces, and the KONG letters. Also, there's the time attack mode, where you try to beat the levels in a certain time to get either a bronze, silver, or gold medal. So I'm sure that this game will keep me entertained for a while.

I'm kind of biased because DKC is my favorite game of all time, but DKCR is a great homage to the DKC series, and one of the better games to come out on the Wii this year.

[Angrist]

I want to pick this up when it's a bit cheaper. I'm sure it's a game I would love.

[Jason1]

I am currently in world 8. This game is a lot of fun. I am so happy that it is as difficult as it is. A nice good challenge, especially if you are planning to get all the letters and puzzle pieces.