Microsoft Announces New Xbox Controller

[BreakABone]

http://www.xbox360digest.com/2010/08/31/new-xbox-360-wireless-controller-unveiled/

Well not new, but more modified.

http://www.xbox360digest.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/image30.png

[Professor S]

When are they going to make controller's chargeable? I hate going through so many batteries...

[Angrist]

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Interesting D-pad.

[Professor S]

Hmmmm, I guess I should read a little farther into articles...

[Vampyr]

He says it comes with the play and charge kit?

$64 is a lot though.

[gekko]

When are they going to make controller's chargeable? I hate going through so many batteries...

The play and charge kit comes with a rechargable battery pack.

[TheSlyMoogle]

He says it comes with the play and charge kit?

$64 is a lot though.

Mmm play and charge kit is 20 dollars alone right now. Controller is around 45. So it's the same price.

[Typhoid]

I hope for the people who buy it's sake; that the next gen Microsoft system has a controller system like Sony's.

Because honestly; not having to worry about batteries at any point is the best thing that's happened to cordless controllers.

And it's only roughly 50 bucks for a new PS3 controller.

Yeah, Playstation is pretty great.

[gekko]

Am I missing something? Isn't the PS3 controller just a bluetooth controller that recharges with mini-USB?

Are you just happy that is has a built-in re-chargable battery? Or happy that is can be charged using a standard cable?

[Typhoid]

I'm happy I don't, nor have ever had to spend a single penny on a battery; or a rechargeable battery combination. Does it use USB? Totally. Does it have a rechargeable battery inside of it? Definitely. Do I have to worry myself with prying the back of the controller off, spending money on something I already paid for, and putting them in? Not once.

[gekko]

Unless your battery goes bad.

[Vampyr]

Mmm play and charge kit is 20 dollars alone right now. Controller is around 45. So it's the same price.

It's still expensive. :P

That being said I think I'll get it.

[Typhoid]

Unless your battery goes bad.

Yeah.
But none of them have.
So, you know.

[TheSlyMoogle]

I have found that my PS3 controller battery seems to last a pretty long time after a charge. Hell I didn't use the thing for 3 months basically and it still had a charge when I unpacked it to play heavy rain.

That being said, I've had the play and charge kit for my 360 controller for about 5 years now and the batter still holds a roughly 15 hour charge. No beef with spending 20 bucks on it. However my controller is grody, and old, so I will be getting a new controller because of that. :D

[gekko]

I've had 360 batteries die. I actually use a mix of rechargable AAs and my wired controller.

Personally I like replacable batteries, since gaming devices seem to stick around more than a couple years. I wouldn't want to pull out my PS3 in 10 years and see the controllers gone bad because the batteries have rotted. I do wish they didn't have proprietary cables though (unless there is some benefit), and came with rechargable battery packs in addition to the little AA battery holder.

Speaking of batteries, can you charge PS3 controllers while the system off? And does USB power turn off once finished?

[Typhoid]

I'd assume the system has to be on when you're charging the controller. Much like your phone has to be on to have its battery charged. I don't know for sure, because I just charge it while the systems on. But it only makes sense.

And I can't say much for 10 years of PS controller-ship, but the controller I got with my system 3+ years ago still works perfectly, and holds it's charge ridiculously long.

[gekko]

I only ask because on Xbox if you have the play-and-charge kit connected and you shut down the system (at least via the controller), the system enters a low-power mode where it will continue to provide power to the USB ports until the controller finished charging, and then shuts off completely. They also support continuing downloads after you shutdown these days too.

Just a nice way to have your wireless controller fully charged for next time you play.

[Typhoid]

Both systems get the job done. I don't really see where the weak debate we're having lies. :confused:

[gekko]

I'm not trying to debate you, other than pointing out the possible long-term side-effects of built-in batteries. I absolutely hate the PS3 controller, but it has nothing to do with batteries.

I'm actually just curious how PS3 worked, because I've never really used one.

[manasecret]

The PS3 controller does not charge when the PS3 is off. I think this is a stupid oversight, but nonetheless hasn't affected my gaming much.

The other stupid oversight is that the USB cord to charge the controller is I think like 3 feet long. So when I'm gaming and relaxing back on my couch playing on an HDTV about ten feet away, and the controller buzzes warning me it's almost out of juice, I have to pull up a chair up close to the TV and be chained to the PS3 3 feet away. To be fair, it's just an annoyance, and obviously not that big of one, otherwise I'd just go buy a longer cable...

[TheGame]

To Gekko,

Yeah, the Ps3 controller lasts pretty darn long without a charge. I usually don't ever turn the system off too, unless I'm going out of town or something.

I remember when I used my mini USB for my phone and ended up losing it for a while... I played my system just as much as normal and the controler lasted almost 2 weeks. But it never even died... That's just when I got the USB charger back.

For a controler that has force feedback and motion controls, it's pretty damn power efficient. (If the system is in the stand-by/screen saver mode where the light dims, I just have to pick up the controler and everything lights back up because of the motion feedback)

I've yet to meet someone with a faulty Ps3 controler battery too. I think down the line it may be a problem, but by Ps5 they're likely going to have Ps3 backward compatibility anyway... if there's not already some new downloadable media store like the Wii/Ps3 has.

[Typhoid]

The other stupid oversight is that the USB cord to charge the controller is I think like 3 feet long.

Well, it's just a normal USB cable, is why. You can use any USB cable in your PS3. My friend charged his phone via my PS3 the other night. I've charged my PS3 controller on my computer before. Circle of life.

[manasecret]

Well, it's just a normal USB cable, is why. You can use any USB cable in your PS3. My friend charged his phone via my PS3 the other night. I've charged my PS3 controller on my computer before. Circle of life.

Well, duh, way to repeat what I just said. It still doesn't mean it wasn't a stupid choice (read: cheap choice) to include a ridiculously short 3 ft cord for the controller. Especially since it doesn't charge unless the console is on, so it's not like it's just a short charge cable, it's a short playing cable. And there's no such thing as a "normal" length USB cord -- it was just a cheap decision.

But I can't imagine you admitting anything Sony did with the PS3 was dumb in any way... :p

[Vampyr]

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=103&cp_id=10303&cs_id=1030303&p_id=5445&seq=1&format=2

15' USB for less than $2. :)

[manasecret]

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=103&cp_id=10303&cs_id=1030303&p_id=5445&seq=1&format=2

15' USB for less than $2. :)

For posterity's sake and anyone looking at this thread, that's the wrong one. You'd actually want this one with a mini-B end --

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=103&cp_id=10303&cs_id=1030302&p_id=5450&seq=1&format=1#largeimage

Or a more versatile solution, a regular USB cable extender --

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=103&cp_id=10303&cs_id=1030304&p_id=5435&seq=1&format=2

(Which reminds me, I already have one of these extensions -- thanks for bringing up the link since it helped remind me!)

But the $2 price tag is just my point. It would cost Sony a few cents extra wholesale to include a 15 foot cable (or just anything > 3 ft), and yet they didn't. That's cheap.

But also as I said initially, it's not like this is a huge deal. If I were that annoyed I would have just bought another cable already. It's just a dumb decision while on the topic of the PS3 controllers.

[TheGame]

Well, duh, way to repeat what I just said. It still doesn't mean it wasn't a stupid choice (read: cheap choice) to include a ridiculously short 3 ft cord for the controller. Especially since it doesn't charge unless the console is on, so it's not like it's just a short charge cable, it's a short playing cable. And there's no such thing as a "normal" length USB cord -- it was just a cheap decision.

But I can't imagine you admitting anything Sony did with the PS3 was dumb in any way... :p

Uh... They made it wireless with a ridiculously long battery life. I think that kinda defeats the idea that the cord is too short. You're kinda digging deep here to find something wrong with the controler. lol

But I guess for you the glass is half empty and for Typhoid it's half full.

The way I see it, if they gave me an 8 foot USB that I only use when the controller is charging, that'd actually be MORE of a problem. Since the controller is sitting right by the system every time it's charging. Now I'd have this massive wire that I have to wrap around the controler for no reason.

[manasecret]

Uh... They made it wireless with a ridiculously long battery life. I think that kinda defeats the idea that the cord is too short. You're kinda digging deep here to find something wrong with the controler. lol

But I guess for you the glass is half empty and for Typhoid it's half full.

The way I see it, if they gave me an 8 foot USB that I only use when the controller is charging, that'd actually be MORE of a problem. Since the controller is sitting right by the system every time it's charging. Now I'd have this massive wire that I have to wrap around the controler for no reason.

Why is it so hard to admit that including a 3 ft wire was a cheap decision? And like I'll repeat for the 3rd time now, it's not like it's a huge deal, but it was a cheap decision.

And the only reason it works for you is because you apparently keep the PS3 on at all times and so your controller is always charged. I don't leave it on. I think it's waste of energy. And so my controller isn't always charged, and I sometimes have to charge it mid-game and sit up close to the TV. That's not digging deep for something wrong, that's a fair criticism of the system as it comes. And thus this ties back into the stupid decision to not let the controller continue to charge while the PS3 is off.

Again, these obviously aren't humongous deal breakers. I'm not returning my PS3 because of it. But I have a hard time figuring out why it's so hard to admit that these are dumb decisions. I'm not arguing that the 360 controller is SO much better, or that the Wiimote is the best ever. I'm just talking about the PS3 controller and its small issues. That's it. Apparently you guys feel the need to come to the PS3's rescue and defend it from any criticism. :p

[The Duggler]

I predict some big changes for the controller of the PS4. Keeping that 10 year old design is retarded.

[TheGame]

Why is it so hard to admit that including a 3 ft wire was a cheap decision? And like I'll repeat for the 3rd time now, it's not like it's a huge deal, but it was a cheap decision.

And the only reason it works for you is because you apparently keep the PS3 on at all times and so your controller is always charged. I don't leave it on. I think it's waste of energy. And so my controller isn't always charged, and I sometimes have to charge it mid-game and sit up close to the TV. That's not digging deep for something wrong, that's a fair criticism of the system as it comes. And thus this ties back into the stupid decision to not let the controller continue to charge while the PS3 is off.

Again, these obviously aren't humongous deal breakers. I'm not returning my PS3 because of it. But I have a hard time figuring out why it's so hard to admit that these are dumb decisions. I'm not arguing that the 360 controller is SO much better, or that the Wiimote is the best ever. I'm just talking about the PS3 controller and its small issues. That's it. Apparently you guys feel the need to come to the PS3's rescue and defend it from any criticism. :p

I don't really care enough to keep defending it. I've yet to have an issue with it, if you're not charging the controler 2 hours for every 20 hours you play, then I think that's a personal problem lol.

And Duggler, I hope they don't change it. The controler's design is simplistic and it works well imo. I don't think they should fix what isn't broken.

[Zach]

Ick, it looks ugly to me. Silver and chrome... ew.

[The Duggler]

And Duggler, I hope they don't change it. The controler's design is simplistic and it works well imo. I don't think they should fix what isn't broken. That's what I hear from PS users all the time and if it's fine with you then OK. And me I couldn't care less, I don't buy playstations.

I know they gave you one hell of a scare with the boomerang, but you should give them another chance :)

[Typhoid]

I'm not returning my PS3 because of it. But I have a hard time figuring out why it's so hard to admit that these are dumb decisions.

Because those problems that you have such a big deal with don't bother me and The Game, because we charge out controllers when we aren't playing our system, opposed to you - who apparently never charge it unless playing.

I don't find the cord dumb because A) I'd much rather have any length of USB cable than a giant battery pack in the back B) It's never hindered my gameplay in any way. Has my controller died mid-game before? Totally. What did I do when that happened? Used my other, fully charged controller. Catastrophe avoided.

I'm not saying I can't see why people wouldn't like the USB cord. But personally, it doesn't make a single difference to me. I've never once thought "Damn this cord" or "I really wish I had a longer cord". Because I'd assume if I ever wanted a longer cord, I'd simply just purchase one instead of begrudgingly using the small one I hate oh-so much.

Why is it so hard to admit that including a 3 ft wire was a cheap decision?

What you call "cheap", I call "cost effective" and "efficient". You don't need a huge, long cord, anyways. The idea behind a wireless controller is to play it wirelessly. Therefore the length of the cord doesn't factor into it one bit.

Half empty/Half full. We have different opinions on something entirely pointless that stems from our specific encounters with the system. And like you said, it's not a deal breaker anyways, so it's not even really important to be talking about anymore.

Also, my two cents on the design of the controller being the same - I think it's a good idea, personally. Why should you change up your controller every system? Why drastically change something that's worked for a decade, and everyone that buys your system is used to? Changing controllers needlessly is Nintendo's bag. Even Microsoft has never changed the Xbox controller, technically. You don't fuck with what works for you. Business rule 4.

The design is simple, light, and fits the hand perfectly. I'm curious though, [i]The Duggler, what do you think they should improve and change on the Playstation controller? Make it fatter, wider, more buttons, lights and whirring noises? Maybe shift the location of every single button, and make the controller 100% different, so that when it comes out next gen everyone who's grown used to the controller has to start all over again. What can they possibly change? are 11 buttons [2 being pressure sensitive], 2 sticks, and a d-pad [not to mention an on/off for the system itself] not enough shit on a controller for you? How many more buttons do you want? Maybe it's the positioning of the buttons you find dumb. Would you suggest they make it more like the 360 controller, which essentially just has 1 joystick and d-pad switching locations with eachother? Is that the zenith of controller placement technology? Maybe all controllers should be gaudy things that take plug-ins and have wires and straps flapping around. Maybe it shouldn't have any buttons at all, but should slightly resemble a St. Bernard.

[TheGame]

I think it'll be good for backward compatibility to keep things similar too.

[Vampyr]

I think the dual shock and the 360 controllers are both perfect...hope they never change. I slightly prefer the 360 one though, because of the trigger design.

[BreakABone]

Personally not a fan of the DualShock controller.

Prefer the placement of the analog stick on the 360 controller and the likes.

And on the SixAxis still feel the R2/L2 buttons feel so filmsy.

I doubt Sony will try much new though, which is odd.

[TheSlyMoogle]

I prefer Sony's controller design for fighting games. However I haven't played fighting games on a standard controller in 3 years now. So... Yeah.

Other than that I don't really notice the difference too much between the two except it would honestly have been nice to have the analogs some other way. They're uncomfortable to use.

[gekko]

What you call "cheap", I call "cost effective" and "efficient".

Really? Come on now, you can't possibly sit there with a straight face and say a shorter USB cable helps keep the price of PS3 down. Cutting costs is removing the backwards compatibility, leaving out rumble, removing accessories which used to be packaged in, etc. A longer USB cable costs pennies when buying in these numbers.

Even Microsoft has never changed the Xbox controller, technically.

They haven't made drastic changes, but it's definitely changed. Xbox shipped with a huge "thing" called a controller. Then they released in Japan with a radically re-designed controller. Then came the S in the US, which is the same basic shape as the Japanese controller, but the resistance in the sticks and triggers is different, and the buttons are a glossy plastic instead of a hard plastic (think DC buttons).

The Xbox 360 controller has changed a little bit during its life too. The D-pad on a newer controller is actually much better than the launch controllers, they just never advertised the change. They released a special edition controller for a soccer game where they improved the d-pad again, and now they have the limited-edition switchable d-pad which also modified the thumbsticks.

I will also say I don't like the PS3 controller. Nice for d-pad games, but those are a minority. Would like to see the left thumbstick move, and the triggers should be concave like every other controller ever made with analog triggers.

[Angrist]

So now that we've discussed most of that... where does the Wii Classic Controller (Pro) fit in? Too much like a Dual Shock without the rumble?

[Typhoid]

Would like to see the left thumbstick move, and the triggers should be concave like every other controller ever made with analog triggers.

Well, except the original PS controller, dualshock 1, dualshock 2, dualshock 3, and whatever the other non-rumble controller is called. Oh, and theres the non-concave joystick of the N64 and the Gamecube.

Come to think of it, only 3 controllers have concave sticks. The Xbox 360 controller, and the Xbox controllers.

That seems to be 7 that don't indent, and 3 that do.

The Xbox 360 controller has changed a little bit during its life too.

They removed some plastic. Sweet. They went from:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/13/XboxOriginalController.jpg/800px-XboxOriginalController.jpg

To:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/da/Xbox-360-white-wireless-controller.jpg/644px-Xbox-360-white-wireless-controller.jpg

Buttons are still all in the same spot, relatively. No major additions or subtractions. No real changes.

Opposed to this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1a/Snes_control.jpg/800px-Snes_control.jpg

to

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d6/N64_Controller.jpg

to

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Gamecube-controller.jpg/771px-Gamecube-controller.jpg

to

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b0/Wii-classic-controller.jpg/600px-Wii-classic-controller.jpg

[i]That is what I meant by changes. A complete overhaul. Not changing the colour, removing some plastic and keeping the layout.

[Vampyr]

He said analog triggers, not analog sticks. :)

Also Nintendo systems have been around for much longer, and had to endure the transition from 2D to 3D. Also neither the N64 controller or the gamecube controller were very good, probably because they were trying to change and be different for the heck of it. The only reason I like the N64 one is because of nostalgia.

But really, I don't see the point of change for the sake of change.

[Angrist]

I really like how the N64 one holds. For example, the way you held the stick, up was up for your thumb. Instead of the angled grip on other controllers. I liked the A + B + 4xC buttons, they were all very easy to reach (and tell apart). I really think they should have had 6 face buttons on the Wii Classic Controller...

[Vampyr]

I also wanted to point that that Typh is incorrect about the differences between the original Xbox and the 360 controllers:

1. 360 does not have the white and black buttons of the original, which were impossible to hit.

2. The 360 has left and right bumpers which the original didn't have

3. The 360's start and back buttons are in a more accessible location

4. "removing a bit of plastic" is an understatement, the slimming down was a huge improvement.

[Angrist]

And in the meanwhile Sony is using a SNES controller with some extra plastic, shoulder buttons and sticks. No drastic changes, so it's the same controller.

[Typhoid]

He said analog triggers, not analog sticks. :)


That's what I thought at first, but then I realized that only 3 controllers have had indented shoulder buttons (both xbox and 360, and GC controller), so that couldn't have been what he meant.

But my point remains the exact same essentially. Here, I'll even re-write and revise it:

Would like to see the left thumbstick move, and the triggers should be concave like every other controller ever made with analog triggers.

Well, except the original PS controller, dualshock 1, dualshock 2, dualshock 3, and whatever the other non-rumble controller is called. Oh, and theres the non-concave buttons of the N64 controller, SNES controller and the classic wii controller.

Come to think of it, only 4 controllers have concave shoulder buttons. The Xbox 360 controller, the original xbox controllers, and the Gamecube controller.


That seems to be 8 that don't indent, and 4 that do.

I also wanted to point that that Typh is incorrect about the differences between the original Xbox and the 360 controllers:

1. 360 does not have the white and black buttons of the original, which were impossible to hit.

2. The 360 has left and right bumpers which the original didn't have

3. The 360's start and back buttons are in a more accessible location

This is why I said this:

No real changes. [I don't count the black and white button as "major changes"]

They moved around 4 buttons in pairs of two, twice each. They didn't change the layout of the controller other than those 4 buttons. The joysticks were the same. The abxy buttons where in the same spot, the d-pad was in the same spot. There was no complete overhaul of the controller. Sure, they added 2 shoulder buttons. Is that an overhaul? No. It's a simple addition. The controller wasn't revolutionized. It wasn't drastically changed. I wasn't talking about slight changes from an original xbox s controller to a 360 controller which resemble eachother completely. By "changes" I meant a complete change. The N64 controller does not resemble a GC controller. a GC controller does not resemble a wiimote. I said all of this in my post before.

You seem to think I'm saying this as some type of knock on the Xbox or something, as if you have stock in the company.

The reason I'm making the point, is because it's smarter to change a controller as little as possible, so people are always used to it, and can just pick up and play.

I always go to this [again, this isn't a knock against Nintendo] but most people I know just clearly prefer the GC controller when playing Wii games, because they're USED to it. Nobody I know plays Mario Kart or Smash with a Wiimote and nunchuck, they use a GC controller, because they know how to use it, and it's familiar, and there is a learning curve with playing a game you already relatively know, with a brand new completely different button layout and controller style.

And in the meanwhile Sony is using a SNES controller with some extra plastic, shoulder buttons and sticks. No drastic changes, so it's the same controller.

Thank you. I'm glad you're agreeing with me.
If you were able to look back and read the posts, this is the point I was trying to make the whole time.
That it is BAD to completely overhaul your controller every system. You typically want it to be as familiar as possible every time. This is why I said it's good for Sony that their controller has stayed exactly the same [not counting the addition of the joysticks or pressure sensative shoulder buttons], because this means someone who played a lot of PS1, and never touched a PS2, can pick up a PS3 controller and it will still feel familiar to them.

I don't know how you guys started assuming I was on the side of "controller change is great, Microsoft needs to change their controller!", because that wasn't my point. My point was 2 of the 3 [histories of] systems haven't really overhauled their controllers other than every Nintendo controller. Each Xbox controller resembles an Xbox controller, and each Playstation controller is the same previously.

[gekko]

Well, except the original PS controller, dualshock 1, dualshock 2, dualshock 3, and whatever the other non-rumble controller is called. Oh, and theres the non-concave buttons of the N64 controller, SNES controller and the classic wii controller.

Those are not analog triggers. You have Saturn, Dreamcast, GameCube, Xbox, Xbox 360, PS3, and the Wii Classic controller. PS3 and the Wii Classic are the only controllers where the buttons are convex. You should be able to squeeze hard and have your fingers not slide off the buttons. That's my beef with the PS3 design..

You seem to think I'm saying this as some type of knock on the Xbox or something, as if you have stock in the company.

I do have stock in the company.

Microsoft also has Kinect. There's a controller revolution for you.

I think you are missing the point here. Those of us who said we don't like the PS3 controller were not asking for a revolution, just tweaking it a bit. Exactly what Microsoft has done going from the S to the 360. In fact, given the response to the Wii, Kinect, and Move, not sure controller revolutions are too popular around here... except BaB.

I always go to this [again, this isn't a knock against Nintendo] but most people I know just clearly prefer the GC controller when playing Wii games, because they're USED to it.

I prefer the GC controller too, but it has nothing to do with being used to it. More to do with my feelings toward motion controls.

[Angrist]

The Cubetroller is just much more suitable for some games. And most people still have it lying around.
Now that I have a Classic Pro, I prefer that.

[TheGame]

Those are not analog triggers. You have Saturn, Dreamcast, GameCube, Xbox, Xbox 360, PS3, and the Wii Classic controller. PS3 and the Wii Classic are the only controllers where the buttons are convex. You should be able to squeeze hard and have your fingers not slide off the buttons. That's my beef with the PS3 design..

Really? I've never once had a situation where my fingers slide off of the Ps3 analog triggers. And I just wasted my time going into my livingroom to press it and see if it's an issue.

Not even close.

If you are holding the controller correctly, your middle finger will be right where the trigger ends. It's impossible for your index finger to slide off unless you're holding the controller wrong or you are missing some fingers...

I think you are missing the point here. Those of us who said we don't like the PS3 controller were not asking for a revolution, just tweaking it a bit. Exactly what Microsoft has done going from the S to the 360. In fact, given the response to the Wii, Kinect, and Move, not sure controller revolutions are too popular around here... except BaB.

The Ps controler has been 'tweaked' multiple times. For example, the above issue you brought up with the analog trigger. On Ps2 there was no trigger, just 4 small buttons.

-EDIT-

And cause I'm ultra bored and know you don't have a Ps3, I've attached some pictures I just took.

[Angrist]

If you are holding the controller correctly, your middle finger will be right where the trigger ends. It's impossible for your index finger to slide off unless you're holding the controller wrong or you are missing some fingers...Ehm, in my experience hands/grips can be really different. I think the shoulder buttons on the Dual Shock and Wii Classic Pro are way too high for my index fingers. I prefer their placement on the Cubetroller (and I guess Xbox).
I have a friend who couldn't press 2 face buttons at once. He didn't know how to use both the bottom and top of his thumb seperately for 2 buttons. Just saying, hands and grips can differ.

[TheGame]

Ehm, in my experience hands/grips can be really different. I think the shoulder buttons on the Dual Shock and Wii Classic Pro are way too high for my index fingers. I prefer their placement on the Cubetroller (and I guess Xbox).
I have a friend who couldn't press 2 face buttons at once. He didn't know how to use both the bottom and top of his thumb seperately for 2 buttons. Just saying, hands and grips can differ.

I would chalk all of that up to not knowing how to hold the controller.

Since the Psx controller has been around so long, developers know how to manipulate the buttons to where most of the grip issues in the late Psx and early Ps2 age were fixed. I think the second trigger buttons (L2/R2) were the last major flaw in the controller.

Most developers know not to make you press triangle and x together anymore, or circle+square. And games that use shoulder buttons a lot adjusted to making L2/R2 the main buttons instead of L1/R1... which are now always back up/utility buttons.

It was annoying at first switching to MGS4's new style of shooting, and adjusting to the turbo buttons on all the sports games moving from R1 to R2... but now I understand why they did it. Even though the controller looks the same on Ps2 and Ps3, the feel is a lot different imo.

[Angrist]

I get sore hands when holding it the way I'm supposed to. It's the vertical angle between my thumb and index finger. Can't help it man.

[Typhoid]

It was annoying at first switching to MGS4's new style of shooting, and adjusting to the turbo buttons on all the sports games moving from R1 to R2... but now I understand why they did it. Even though the controller looks the same on Ps2 and Ps3, the feel is a lot different imo.

I totally agree. At first there was a lot of "What the fuck is this bullcrap?" followed by "This is completely awkward" followed by "I'm glad I can control the acceleration of my car subtly with the R2 button."

Personally, when I hold my PS3 controller, I only use 1 finger (per side) for both shoulder buttons. I rest the finger in-between the two when I'm not using them. I have the inner bend of my thumb on the X, and the pad of my thumb on the Square. Unless I'm playing NHL 11, then I have my thumbs on the joysticks. But still.

[jeepnut]

I totally agree. At first there was a lot of "What the fuck is this bullcrap?" followed by "This is completely awkward" followed by "I'm glad I can control the acceleration of my car subtly with the R2 button."

Personally, when I hold my PS3 controller, I only use 1 finger (per side) for both shoulder buttons. I rest the finger in-between the two when I'm not using them. I have the inner bend of my thumb on the X, and the pad of my thumb on the Square. Unless I'm playing NHL 11, then I have my thumbs on the joysticks. But still.

Agreed. Putting fingers on all four buttons feels unstable and uncomfortable.

[TheGame]

Agreed. Putting fingers on all four buttons feels unstable and uncomfortable.

Yeah, that's not how it's meant to be held. R1 and L1 are pretty much like the black and white buttons on the original xbox. Low usage extra buttons. R2 L2 and the face buttons get most of the action with Ps3.