Police Can Attach GPS to Cars Without Warrant

[Professor S]

Now I'm just wondering when they'll be able to attach collars directly to our necks...

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/08/27/oregon.gps.surveillance/index.html?hpt=T1

[Typhoid]

I honestly don't see a problem to this unless you're doing illegal activity and afraid of getting caught.

I mean, if the police have no reason to be searching for you in the first place - they won't be - so you have nothing to give a shit about.

You can already track cell phones, so why not cars. It makes sense, to me.

It will make it easier to find and recover stolen cars, the people who stole them, or to find criminals in general [as long as they have a car, or cell phone].

To say the thing about the collars is pretty silly. Because this is nothing like 'controlling a population and directly following you around'. It's your car. And like I said, they can already do it with cell phones, and nobody raised an eyebrow at that.

[Ginkasa]

I honestly don't see a problem to this unless you're doing illegal activity and afraid of getting caught.

I mean, if the police have no reason to be searching for you in the first place - they won't be - so you have nothing to give a shit about.

You can already track cell phones, so why not cars. It makes sense, to me.

It will make it easier to find and recover stolen cars, the people who stole them, or to find criminals in general [as long as they have a car, or cell phone].

To say the thing about the collars is pretty silly. Because this is nothing like 'controlling a population and directly following you around'. It's your car. And like I said, they can already do it with cell phones, and nobody raised an eyebrow at that.



Cell phone tracking, however, just feels like a price of having a phone. Its in the nature of the thing, yeah? Cars are different. I don't really mind the idea of having a GPS in my car for the reasons you posted above, but I want to "opt in," not have it done without my permission.

[Professor S]

I honestly don't see a problem to this unless you're doing illegal activity and afraid of getting caught.

I mean, if the police have no reason to be searching for you in the first place - they won't be - so you have nothing to give a shit about.

You can already track cell phones, so why not cars. It makes sense, to me.

It will make it easier to find and recover stolen cars, the people who stole them, or to find criminals in general [as long as they have a car, or cell phone].

To say the thing about the collars is pretty silly. Because this is nothing like 'controlling a population and directly following you around'. It's your car. And like I said, they can already do it with cell phones, and nobody raised an eyebrow at that.

The problem with your argumeent is that the supposition is incorrect. Police need a warrant to access you cell phone usage (as of a court decision in 2008). That doesn't mean they always abide by that law. There is actually a big argument about the FBI illegally tracking cell phones going on right now. Its likely to head to the supreme court, and rightfully so.

[Typhoid]

Prof - here is how I look at this.

Why do you care if the police are able to see where you are at any given time? Are you doing anything illegal? What do you have to hide?

The only people this hurts, is those doing illegal activity, or activity that is shady to their character that can somehow be used against them in a court of law, assuming they are doing something illegal in the first place.

It won't be "Oh my god ____ is in Kentucky." "What! Send the SWAT Team, he's from Alabama! We've been randomly tracking him, and him being out of state is concerning to us!"


The same way they don't randomly track your phone. I mean, sure. If you give them REASON to track you, they will find a way to do so. Just as before phones, [and the way to track cars] they would find out where you lived. Is that illegal? No. Why should your phone be illegal? You have a number. That number [much like a house number, and insurance/license plate] is registered to YOU - meaning it is always with YOU. So them being able to know where you live, or where your car, or phone is at any given point - so long as you give them reason to chase you - is totally fine.

If you stay within the bounds of the law, who cares.

You might say "Yeah, but they can find out where your car/phone is at any given point!"

To which I say "Sure, but but they can also see where you live by looking at anything."

Going into a house is one thing. That - you need a warrant for.
Knowing where your car is, or where your phone is, seems ridiculous to care about - unless you're doing things that are illegal, or that you're ashamed about.

I for one, want the government to know where I am at any given time. Granted people keep their phone on them at all times, and I get kidnapped, they will know where I am. Especially if my car gets stolen, it will be a fast way to find it.

Sure, they can do it without a warrant, but who gives a shit. Do you have anything to hide? Will they randomly peg pieces of paper and say "This guy. Let's go check where his car is, and why it's there." No. They won't.

Stop acting overly paranoid over things that don't even matter in the least, or put on your tinfoil at. All or nothing.

[Vampyr]

Typh, I think your posts are overly optimistic.

And no, I don't do anything illegal but I still don't want it to be legal for a cop to hide a GPS on my car.

If you want a gps on your car so that it can be found quickly if stolen, hide one yourself.

[Typhoid]

A) If you know it's there, it's not hiding. Different story if they randomly choose you out of a jar of pickled eggs with millions of names of Americans on it.
B) Where was the massive uprising when people found out they can track your phone? You always have your phone on you. You're not always with your car. It would make [at least] a little more sense that if you're going to get upset over something like this, you get upset at the thing you have on you all the time.

Other than "I personally don't like the idea of being tracked", give me 5 reasons why it's actually wrong, if you're a law-abiding citizen [Not a good movie, by the way] who goes to church every Sunday and never does anything illegal.

Why should John Q Catholic give a shit if the government knows where he is. They won't be looking for him unless he gives them a reason to.

It's not as if they're breaking into your car to search the contents, breaking into your house, or listening in on your calls. They know these three things [house, phone, car] belong to you. They know where your house is. Why should they not be able to know where your car or phone is.

Like I said, tinfoil hats. All or nothing.
If you're afraid of the fact they can figure out where your car is if they need to, you should be equally as scared that the government knows where you live, work, and how much you make. You should be afraid they know how many children you have, when you were born, and what type of car you have. Hell, even where your children even go to school.

[Combine 017]

Typhoid I think your fine with it cause you dont own a car.
Or do you, I cant remember.
But id rather not have my car tracked by the fuzz.
And what if I did want to do something illegal, like run a stop sign or go above the posted speed limit, then im boned.

[Angrist]

I'm somewhere with Typhoid here. I'd think it would be pretty funny if the cops would be tracking me. I have nothing to hide, so they'd be wasting their money.
Perhaps rewatching Ememy Of The State can change my mind.

[Vampyr]

A) If you know it's there, it's not hiding. Different story if they randomly choose you out of a jar of pickled eggs with millions of names of Americans on it.

What is this response to, me saying you should put a GPS tracker on your own car? If -you- hide it then it -is- hidden, unless you steal your own car.


B) Where was the massive uprising when people found out they can track your phone? You always have your phone on you. You're not always with your car. It would make [at least] a little more sense that if you're going to get upset over something like this, you get upset at the thing you have on you all the time.

Like prof said, you need a warrant for that. The issue here isn't that they have the ability to put a gps on your car, it's that they can do it without a warrant. Should police be able to search someone's home if they have evidence he/she may be a thief, child molester, murderer, etc? Yes. Should they be able to if they don't have any evidence? No. Why? Because I don't like the idea of someone having access to my house any time they wan't, whether I'm doing something illegal or not, and that's the only reason that actually matters. I don't need 5 other ones. I've never heard of laws or policy being put into place because someone couldn't write down five whole reasons...I mean what if they only had four? :ohreilly:



It's not as if they're breaking into your car to search the contents, breaking into your house, or listening in on your calls. They know these three things [house, phone, car] belong to you. They know where your house is. Why should they not be able to know where your car or phone is.

They -can't- just do any of those things you listed. Have to have a warrant.


Like I said, tinfoil hats. All or nothing.
If you're afraid of the fact they can figure out where your car is if they need to, you should be equally as scared that the government knows where you live, work, and how much you make. You should be afraid they know how many children you have, when you were born, and what type of car you have. Hell, even where your children even go to school.

Obviously all of these things are not equal to another. There's a line that's crossed when you go between knowing I make 60k a year and knowing that I go to starbucks every day at 2:30 and spend $3 on a coffee before driving five minutes back to where I work.

[Typhoid]

Typhoid I think your fine with it cause you dont own a car.

I'm fine with it on principle.
Just like I'm fine with the fact that my phone can be tracked if need be. Or that my address can be looked up if the police need to chase me down.


The issue here isn't that they have the ability to put a gps on your car, it's that they can do it without a warrant.


Should they be able to if they don't have any evidence? No. Why? Because I don't like the idea of someone having access to my house any time they wan't

Vamp - they're not putting a GPS on your car to see what is INSIDE of it. Just to see where it is. To compare it to getting a warrant to search a house isn't equal at all. It would be like them needing a warrant just to look up the government records of your address - not for looking in your house. Adding a GPS to your car doesn't mean they can randomly force you to pop open your trunk, or strip your car. They're just knowing it's location. Not what is INSIDE of it. Does your house have a location? Do the police know where it is if they need to? They sure do. So what's the difference if the police know where your car is? Like I said, they're not knowing what is INSIDE of the car, just like they don't search your house by simply knowing the address.

They -can't- just do any of those things you listed. Have to have a warrant.

I know they can't. That's why I used them as a comparison. I said "it's NOT like they are____"

Obviously all of these things are not equal to another. There's a line that's crossed when you go between knowing I make 60k a year and knowing that I go to starbucks every day at 2:30 and spend $3 on a coffee before driving five minutes back to where I work.

Why would they track you?

You do realize this isn't in place for everyday people.
I envision it logically. For people on bail, flight risks, offenders, or people who just generally need to be kept track of. Drug dealers, etc. They're not going to stick a GPS on YOUR car. Unless you do happen to be a drug dealer with a flight risk who happens to be out on bail.

[Angrist]

Hm I changed my mind, they should have a warrant for that. And I didn't even need to watch any conspiracy theory movies for that.

[Vampyr]

You do realize this isn't in place for everyday people.
I envision it logically. For people on bail, flight risks, offenders, or people who just generally need to be kept track of. Drug dealers, etc. They're not going to stick a GPS on YOUR car. Unless you do happen to be a drug dealer with a flight risk who happens to be out on bail.

You're argument fails because the possibility exists that they COULD use it on every day people. Hence the problem.

Knowing the location of my house doesn't reveal any information about me, other than maybe my income level. Thus why knowing when where and how I use my car is more sensitive. I'm not sure about where you live, but where I live I can't walk anywhere, nothing is that close together. So monitoring the position of my car is essentially monitoring all of my activity. I hope you can see that's different than just knowing where my house is.

[TheGame]

Typhoid you seem to be convinced that they will only do this to questionable or bad people... But this is the reason warrants were created in the first place, because they can and WILL do it to innocent people if they don't need a warrant.

Warrantless wire tapping is a perfect example. Abused.

And also, what is stopping someone from hacking that GPS signal? And even if unhacked, would you be okay with a bunch of perverted ass cops knowing exactly where your wife/daughter is at all times? Do you really trust them that much?

I value my privacy personally.

[Typhoid]

And also, what is stopping someone from hacking that GPS signal?

People can do that now. If your car, or iphone has GPS on it, and it's active - people can hack it and find out where you are if they're determined enough.

would you be okay with a bunch of perverted ass cops knowing exactly where your wife/daughter is at all times? Do you really trust them that much?

Yeah, I'm totally fine with it. I'm not a cynic. I don't think every cop out there is going to stalk and gang rape my family just because of this one situation. Are there cops out there that aren't up to par with the law? Sure. But am I afraid that they will use this ability to stay at work and stalk me or my family for no good reason? Nope. I have no reason to think that they will do anything but uphold the law. And since I have nothing to hide, I double-y don't really give a shit. I personally don't care if they know where I live. I don't care if they know who my doctor is, or where I went at 5:30 yesterday. I have no reason to hide any of my activities, or be ashamed of them. So personally, I don't care.

I hope you can see that's different than just knowing where my house is.

I can indeed, but the argument you were making before was comparing it to searching your house, not knowing the location. I was saying the aren't searching your car.

And yet still, I honestly don't think it's a detrimentally terrible idea.

But anyways, none of us are changing our views. You guys aren't going to view the police as anything but people who want to spy on you, and I won't change my view that they want a more efficient, and faster way of tracking suspects without having to wait X amount of time for warrants.

[TheGame]

To be honest I do see where you're coming from, and I'm in the same boat of not having anyting to worry about because I do nothing wrong. I also highly doubt I'll be targeted by someone for malicious reasons. But, stalkers controling this system can and will happen. That's why I'm against it.

It may not by my wife and kid who is followed around, but someone somewhere will do it. So I'd rather just not allow a system that can be abused in such a way to exist. Just like warrantless wire tapping... they can tap me all day, they won't find anything because I don't do anything wrong or have anything particularly bad to hide. But maybe one day I will have something to hide for my own reasons, and maybe someday they will tap my phone for malicious reasons...

I'd rather just drop the system all together then have to worry about it.

[CrayPass]

As I also do nothing illegal, I won't be afraid either if cops would put GPS to my car without my permission. But in the sense that it is a private property, why don't they ask permission for it? I believe it's my own choice to choose. Everything must be done in a proper way that both party knew that GPS in implanted on my car.

[Donnell]

I agree CrayPass, our rights must be practiced!

[Angrist]

Why were these spammers allowed more than 1 post?

[Combine 017]

Why were these spammers allowed more than 1 post?

Cause they are actually responding to our topics.
Smart spammers.

[TheGame]

Cause they are actually responding to our topics.
Smart spammers.

Lol, yeah since they do that, I don't mind them.

Cray brought up an interesting point too. But I feel guilty giving a bot props.

I'm just wondering where the advertizment is... what's the point of them...

[Angrist]

What do you mean 'where the advertisement is'? Did you check their signatures?

[TheGame]

What do you mean 'where the advertisement is'? Did you check their signatures?

Ooh... I didn't notice the link in there. Yeah I probably wouldn't ban them.. they're smart, and their ads aren't annoying and big. But I'm not about to click them and see what virus I get lol

[Angrist]

Oh I clicked them. No viruses that I'm aware of. Just some weird niche medications (if any of you are a female who gave birth, you might be interested).

[Vampyr]

But guys, they wouldn't use this ability irresponsibly!

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/10/fbi-tracking-device/

[Typhoid]

Who said they wouldn't use it?

And since this is considered irresponsible, what is a responsible way to secretly track someone's car without a warrant? :ohreilly:

[Vampyr]

There isn't one.

[TheGame]

There isn't one.

I agree, outside of one possibility...

Which is when the person who owns the vehicle ASKS to be tracked and gives polie concent to do it wheneverthey want. That's the only time it's responceable.

[Jason1]

wow im really impressed by these spammers. They are actually saying things that are relevant to the topic.

I guess spamming technology has come a long way...

[Dylflon]

I honestly don't see a problem to this unless you're doing illegal activity and afraid of getting caught.

I mean, if the police have no reason to be searching for you in the first place - they won't be - so you have nothing to give a shit about.

You can already track cell phones, so why not cars. It makes sense, to me.

It will make it easier to find and recover stolen cars, the people who stole them, or to find criminals in general [as long as they have a car, or cell phone].

To say the thing about the collars is pretty silly. Because this is nothing like 'controlling a population and directly following you around'. It's your car. And like I said, they can already do it with cell phones, and nobody raised an eyebrow at that.

Haha, if the OP was said that car tracking by GPS was great you would have sprung up with the argument about how it's not.

[Typhoid]

Haha, if the OP was said that car tracking by GPS was great you would have sprung up with the argument about how it's not.

Shhh.
They don't know that.