New Computer advice.

[Jason1]

So something went wrong with my Dad's computer recently. The broadcom controller just wont work, cant re-install drivers, ect. Therefore, the computer cant access the internet. And something is wrong with the PCI device or something. Also, it refuses to do a system rollback. Im pretty good with computers and to me it seems that stuff is just finally staring to go bad now, its over 7 years old.

Anyways he is hoping to not spend more than 450 dollars. We would only need the computer itself, we allready have a nice 22 inch monitor. Also, we have no need for a laptop.

One of the things I have not read too much up on is dual core vs. quad core. Is quad core really that much better? We dont need a 1TB hard drive or 8GB of Ram or anything like that, but I would like it to be powerful enough to run modern games decently, so I would hope it would have a good graphics card. Then again I could always upgrade that down the line.

Anyways if anyone has seen any good deals please advise. I have been searching around on my own but I am of course open to suggestions.

[TheSlyMoogle]

If you can build your own computer (It's not hard, and there are like 1000 FAQS online for doing it that are pretty straightforward), then I suggest you do that.

I put together a decent machine for around 500 about 6 months ago. Aside from the explosion that was my power supply that one day, everything else about the system was great, and my replacement power supply was even better.

I would suggest a mid-grade motherboard, nothing too flashy but nothing cheap, and also a graphics card that basically was the shit like 1 to 2 years ago. Which means now it will be able to moderately run the games of today. However you could save up and upgrade that later.

Also you may not want a 1 TB HD, but they're pretty cheap now, and think of all the piracy you can do :D

As far as dual core vs. quad core, there's a lot of debate in that area, but it just depends on the situation really. Check the reviews of the various processors, see what people are saying about them. I mean I doubt you're going to get into anything too rough like over-clocking etc. anyway.

Also I would highly suggest at least 4 gb of ram if you plan on running Windows 7. You can do it with 2, but it's so much smoother with 4.

[Jason1]

Yea I knew you should have 4 Gb Ram for Windows 7. I really don't want to go through the effort of building my own...while I probably could do it, it will be my Dad's computer more or less which I will use some, but I hope to move out of the house soon, in which case I wont be using it.

[manasecret]

So something went wrong with my Dad's computer recently. The broadcom controller just wont work, cant re-install drivers, ect. Therefore, the computer cant access the internet. And something is wrong with the PCI device or something. Also, it refuses to do a system rollback. Im pretty good with computers and to me it seems that stuff is just finally staring to go bad now, its over 7 years old.

What is the Broadcom controller, the PCI bus controller, or the network card? If it's just a dead network card, just pull out the old one and pop in a new one for some $20 and you're set. Hell, you can even get USB ones nowadays, which work fine (but going through the PCI bus is the fastest and most reliable way). And I never have trusted system rollbacks to be of any use, not the standard one that comes with Windows anyway.

And if all else fails, you can use the Dell restore disks.

[Jason1]

Hm, well if I go to device manager, here is what is shows as having issues:

Broadcom 440x 10/100 Integrated Controller

PCI Device.

So I assume that is like the network card that controls the internet? I guess that is a thought, but after 7 years I think is probably just time for a new computer. This one on Newegg caught my eye, and I realise the graphics card sucks, but you could always upgrade that later. Thoughts?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883147085

[manasecret]

Yeah, that's just the network card not working.

It's up to you and him, new computers are always nice. But you can easily fix the problem with a new $20 network card.

[Jason1]

So something like this would fix the problem?

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Dynex%26%23153%3B+-+Desktop+10/100+PCI+Network+Card/8350802.p?id=1177112858465&skuId=8350802&st=Network%20Card&contract_desc=null

[manasecret]

Yeah that looks exactly right. Basically the install will involve taking the case off your computer, pulling out the Broadcom card (the one with the network port) after unscrewing the one screw holding it in, and putting the new one in its place. That's assuming the Broadcom is a PCI card, which it sounds like it is.

After that, you will likely have to install the drivers that come with the card, which is just a matter of putting in the CD that comes with it and clicking install or some such. There's a small chance XP will recognize and use it without installing the drivers, but it's probably a good idea to install them anyway.

[Jason1]

Well thanks for the help. I'm not sure if we will do that or not, seems my Dad is kinda interested in a new Computer since we have been looking. Let me show you the 2 we are considering and see if you think one is the better deal...the 1st one is the one I posted earlier. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883147085

The only real potential problem I see with this one down the road is that it only supports 4GB Ram, and is not upgradable. Therefore the 4 GB RAM it comes with is the most it will ever be.

The other one we are looking at: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Dell+-+Inspiron+Desktop+/+Intel%26%23174%3B+Pentium%26%23174%3B+Dual-Core+Processor+/+4GB+Memory+/+500GB+Hard+Drive/9846086.p;jsessionid=AD8A8626FDC41D574D54B1D561BB25F9.bbolsp-app06-26?skuId=9846086&productCategoryId=pcmcat212600050008&id=1218183110027

This one is fairly similar I think, but the RAM is upgradable to potentially 8 GB. But it appears the processer might not be quite as fast?

[manasecret]

Well thanks for the help. I'm not sure if we will do that or not, seems my Dad is kinda interested in a new Computer since we have been looking. Let me show you the 2 we are considering and see if you think one is the better deal...the 1st one is the one I posted earlier. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883147085

The only real potential problem I see with this one down the road is that it only supports 4GB Ram, and is not upgradable. Therefore the 4 GB RAM it comes with is the most it will ever be.

The other one we are looking at: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Dell+-+Inspiron+Desktop+/+Intel%26%23174%3B+Pentium%26%23174%3B+Dual-Core+Processor+/+4GB+Memory+/+500GB+Hard+Drive/9846086.p;jsessionid=AD8A8626FDC41D574D54B1D561BB25F9.bbolsp-app06-26?skuId=9846086&productCategoryId=pcmcat212600050008&id=1218183110027

This one is fairly similar I think, but the RAM is upgradable to potentially 8 GB. But it appears the processer might not be quite as fast?

When comparing CPUs and comparing video cards, these are the only two links you need:

CPU Comparison Charts:
Benchmark Charts: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-phenom-ii-corei-i5,2647-7.html (http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/2009-desktop-cpu-charts-update-1/benchmarks,60.html)
EDIT: Better Hierarchy Chart: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-phenom-ii-corei-i5,2647-7.html

Videocard Comparison Charts:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/graphics-card-geforce-radeon,2646-7.html

The video card hierarchy chart is especially robust, as it includes a long history of older video cards in there.

<strike>The CPU chart is very helpful, but as CPUs go out of date they just drop them from the chart. For example, the Dell's CPU is E5400, but the closest comparison that I could find on the chart was the E8400, which won't be the same at all. So it's probably just been dropped off the bottom of the chart, and suffice it to say, it's way obsolete. The HP's Athlon X2 250, on the other hand, while near the bottom of the charts (and so relatively slower than the others), at least it's actually on the chart, compared to the E5400.</strike>

EDIT: I'm not keeping up with Tom's Hardware well enough! They do make CPU charts like the video card charts now. Take a look at the new link, which is much easier when comparing CPUs.

So, yeah, the Newegg HP should have a faster CPU. EDIT: So according to the new CPU chart I linked, the two are quite comparable. [/EDIT] Keep in mind, though, CPUs are upgradeable as well. As long as your computer has the right socket for one of the newer ones, you can just plop it right in. But that gets a little more complicated, as you may have to worry about the power supply being powerful enough, and you may have to reinstall Windows (though I'm not sure on that).

As for RAM, yes, IMO you are very right to keep in mind the expandability of the RAM to 8 GB (or more, if possible). Especially since both of these computers are 64-bit, so if you can't go past 4 GB you're really losing the main draw of going to 64-bit.

As for fixing the old one, might as well pay $20 to fix it and have two decent computers around. :) Unless you already have a glut of them to use.

[TheSlyMoogle]

Those computers look fine for daddy, as he probably doesn't need too much power for his surfing and computer needs.

Also:

While a new network card could fix the problem, if the machine is that old you also need to take into account the fact that it could just be that the motherboard is slowing failing.

[Jason1]

Great links and good advice guys. Sounds like we are going to attempt the quick fix on the computer we have now and hopefully get another 6 months to a year out of it. My Dad says he will have more bills paid off by then and might even be willing to spend more at this time.

And yea i'm sure the way those 2 computers are would be fine for my Dad, but like I said I might want to be using it to play something like Portal 2 at some point down the road, depending on when I actually do move out of the house and get a desktop of my own, so I dont want whatever we end up getting to be a total slouch either.

[manasecret]

Oops, I never actually updated the CPU link to the hierarchy chart. Here's the new link:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-phenom-ii-corei-i5,2647-7.html

I updated in the post above, too.

[TheSlyMoogle]

I hate to say it, but I'm a big fan of these intel core processors. This laptop has an i3 and mmm it's tasty fast.

[Jason1]

Well I have had the computer disconnected and sitting on a table for the past few days. Finally got the Belkin PCI network card which I ordered off newegg. When I went to install it I noticed the there previously was no network card, the place where you hooked up the ethernet cable was basically connected to the motherboard. But, I figured it would still probably work, it would just detect the new network card I installed and I would just now have 2 ethernet ports on the back of my computer, one of which did not work.

So I installed the new card just fine, fit perfectly. Went to turn on the PC and for some reason I never switched off the power switch in the back of the tower previously, so the computer just came right on. I was not done hooking everything up, so I just went ahead and hit that switch to power it down, this was before it was finished booting. Not sure if that messed it up or what, but after that I would not get the computer to boot at all. The hard drive light would be solid on, it would not blink or anything. But I tried a number of things, and the computer will just not boot. So something must the fried.

Anyways 7 year old computer no big deal part was like 16 bucks on Newegg we will just return it. So now we are again looking into a new computer, and of the 2 I previously posted, im leaning towards the Dell from BestBuy due to the fact that the memory is upgradable. Seems the Processors and Graphics cards (or lack thereof) are pretty damn similar.

Sooooo...If anyone has seen any better deals recently let me know!

[manasecret]

You were working on the PC with the power cord still plugged in? :nono: :)

Did you try pulling out the network card and rebooting? If it works after pulling it out, you might try plugging it back in (and make sure it's plugged in snug). I've had times when I've plugged in a new part for the first time, and the computer wouldn't boot. But then I took the new part out and plugged it right back in, and the computer booted fine.

Btw, you're right in the assumption that you would simply have two network cards, though with one obviously not working. It's been common for awhile for a network port to be included right on the motherboard.

[Jason1]

You were working on the PC with the power cord still plugged in? :nono: :)

Did you try pulling out the network card and rebooting? If it works after pulling it out, you might try plugging it back in (and make sure it's plugged in snug). I've had times when I've plugged in a new part for the first time, and the computer wouldn't boot. But then I took the new part out and plugged it right back in, and the computer booted fine.

Btw, you're right in the assumption that you would simply have two network cards, though with one obviously not working. It's been common for awhile for a network port to be included right on the motherboard.

No, I was not working on the computer with the power cord plugged in. But, when I went to go hook everything back up, I plugged in the power cord before I had everything else hooked up, and I did not realize the computer was going to just come right on like that, so I quickly switched it back off.

And yes, I did unplug the network card which I had just installed, but that was not the problem. I dont know im pretty stumped with it, something is fried.

[Jason1]

So, we finally got our new computer from Dell a few days ago. An inspirion 570. Very strangely, it appears the computer they sent us is actually better than the one we ordered. We were suppoused to get 4 Gig ram, and according to system information, we actually have 6, and we were suppoused to get a Athlon x2 2800, and we actually have an Athlon x3 2900.

In any event, I was wondering, is there any easy way to find out what motherboard we have in our system? So far I have tried programs like Everest, which gather detailed system information, but all it says under motherboard is "unknown" I really dont want to open up the cast as of yet, so is there any easy way to see the make and model of a motherboard? Strangeley I seem unable to get into the BIOS for this computer...does it have something to do with Dell locking all that stuff out?

Anyways we paid just over 400 dollars alltogether for this computer and I think we got some pretty good bang for the buck.

[manasecret]

Sweet deal! The easiest way to find out the motherboard info without opening up the case is to get into the BIOS. Dell may try to lock you out by making it non-obvious, but it should still be possible. Try pressing any number of buttons on boot up -- Delete and any one of the F buttons are usually the ones. If all else fails... mash the keyboard at start up until it gets to the BIOS!

[Jason1]

Well after some messing around I was able to enter the BIOS, but it still doesent really tell me anything more...The main page of the BIOS, where I would assume it should list the motherboard, only lists this:

System info
System: Inspiron 570
BIOS version: A01
Service Tag: 8JMVLM1

Along with other stuff such as processor and RAM, it lists V2.63 American Megatrends at the bottom of the screen, which I assume is simply the BIOS software version...

Its not a huge deal right now, but I do decide to add a dedicated graphics card in the future, it would be nice to know which mobo I have.