Final Fantasy Megathread

[Ginkasa]

As proposed in the Final Fantasy "this or that" thread, here is a Final Fantasy megathread!

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20050812110851/finalfantasy/images/8/86/Final_Fantasy_series_logo.png




For the next uncertain period of time (weeks? months? maybe even years?) I will be embarking on a quest to play through each of the core Final Fantasy video games and I invite you to come along with me!

Basically, every so often I will update this thread with the next Final Fantasy game. If you would like this is your cue to start playing that game and discuss whatever you'd like about it. I will be updating the thread based on my own playthrough, but feel free to play the games at your own pace. Just please refrain from discussing a game that hasn't been posted yet. This way the conversations can stay contained somewhat and we won't all be discussing VII or XIII when we're on II or whatever.

Also, this will only contain the core, numbered Final Fantasy titles. So no sequels (X-2) or spin-offs (Crystal Chronicles) will be included. Also, due the nature of the game I will not be playing through XI, but I will post it so it can be discussed in the future.

So, without further ado....

[Ginkasa]

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20071101140057/finalfantasy/images/2/2b/FF_1_PSP.jpg

Final Fantasy I wiki page (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy)


Originally released for the Famicom in 1987 in Japan and the NES in 1990 in North America, FFI is, appropriately, the first Final Fantasy game. I think the story behind the creation of the game is relatively common knowledge. Basically, SquareSoft wasnot doing so well as a company in the late 80s and only had the resources for one "final" game. The man in charge of the title, Hironobu Sakaguchi (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Sakaguchi), felt that he could create a story based game better than an action game, so he decided to create a fantasy RPG. He titled the game "Final Fantasy" since it was supposed to have been Square's literal final fantasy.

FFI introduced to the series... well, everything, but specific things that have carried over to the rest of the games:

- The names and images for many of the jobs/classes
- Musical themes such as the Prelude, Main Theme, and Victory Fanfare
- Airships
- Crystal themed story

There have been many, many different remakes and ports of the game over the years. It has been released in NA as:

- Final Fantasy for the NES
- As part of the Final Fantasy Origins collection on the PSX with updated graphic, a refined translation, and slight tweaks to the gameplay (including an "easy mode")
- Part of the Final Fantasy I&II Dawn of Souls collection for the GBA. This version was made considerably easier and simpler than previous versions.
- Final Fantasy for the PSP with further updated graphics
- The original NES version on the Wii's Virtual Console



******


I will be playing through the Origins version on the Playstation on "Normal Mode". The original has not aged well visually, and I feel the Origins version has the best gameplay "refinements" without compromising the original game itself, if that makes sense.

I actually started playing a few days ago. I am now on Mt. Gulg for those familiar with the game. I will update with impressions once I've completed it.

[TheSlyMoogle]

Noice!

I will join in when you start Final Fantasy III.

[magus113]

I'd love to join in now but sadly I have a huge backlog of other games I have to finish. You can ask Earl what I'm talking about, it's pretty big.

[Ginkasa]

BTW, feel free to talk about the games even if you can't or would prefer not to play them at this time if you have already played them.

[Typhoid]

I really wish I could play the older ones. :mad:

[magus113]

I can't remember where it is that I've gotten the farthest in FF1, but I think my biggest issue with it was the same problem with the old NES RPGs, where they throw you out somewhere and expect you to know wtf is happening.

[Ginkasa]

I can't remember where it is that I've gotten the farthest in FF1, but I think my biggest issue with it was the same problem with the old NES RPGs, where they throw you out somewhere and expect you to know wtf is happening.


Its not so much they expect you to just know; they expect you to pay VERY close attention and take notes.

But I definitely see what you're saying. At one point in FF1 there's, like, five different things you need to do all at once and about 15 NPCs stretched across the entire world giving vague hints about what those things are. Its pretty crazy.

[thatmariolover]

FF1 and FF2 are both on the iPhone now as well, $9 apiece.

[TheSlyMoogle]

Its not so much they expect you to just know; they expect you to pay VERY close attention and take notes.

But I definitely see what you're saying. At one point in FF1 there's, like, five different things you need to do all at once and about 15 NPCs stretched across the entire world giving vague hints about what those things are. Its pretty crazy.

That would be the part where bahamut is involved. Oh and the other stuff you have to do. it was at that point I was all "FAQ?" and I did it.

[magus113]

That would be the part where bahamut is involved. Oh and the other stuff you have to do. it was at that point I was all "FAQ?" and I did it.

I don't like FAQs unless I'm just that desperate. Probably why I looked to one a bunch of times for Valkyria Chronicles. I sucked at that game a good portion of the time, it's a shame it's really good.

[Xantar]

Ok so I'm working through FF IV and this is my first time actually trying to get through the whole game instead of quitting halfway through because I got distracted by something else.

You know what's fun? Leveling up Cecil right after he becomes a Paladin. You know what's more fun? Killing everybody else in the party and having Cecil accumulate truckloads of EXP for every fight. You know what's even more fun? Having every other character level up accordingly by the time they rejoin you. Running around the latter half of the game at level 50 is SWEET (I used the speed up function on my emulator, in case you're wondering why I didn't die of boredom first). Even Edward is kind of useful.

Speaking of which, does anybody know if Edward can actually be made into a good character other than by ridiculously leveling him up like I did? Because I don't know how the game designers thought he would be a good character otherwise. I mean his only trick is he runs away and hides when he gets hurt which just means you can't heal him.

[magus113]

Ok so I'm working through FF IV and this is my first time actually trying to get through the whole game instead of quitting halfway through because I got distracted by something else.

You know what's fun? Leveling up Cecil right after he becomes a Paladin. You know what's more fun? Killing everybody else in the party and having Cecil accumulate truckloads of EXP for every fight. You know what's even more fun? Having every other character level up accordingly by the time they rejoin you. Running around the latter half of the game at level 50 is SWEET (I used the speed up function on my emulator, in case you're wondering why I didn't die of boredom first). Even Edward is kind of useful.

Speaking of which, does anybody know if Edward can actually be made into a good character other than by ridiculously leveling him up like I did? Because I don't know how the game designers thought he would be a good character otherwise. I mean his only trick is he runs away and hides when he gets hurt which just means you can't heal him.

My general opinion of Edward has not been a good one, but I think there might be a song or two that he learns that's pretty decent.

I really need to get on FF4 again. I don't have much time to whip out the DS anymore. Thanks work.

[Ginkasa]

I think Edward is just a crappy character overall. Nobody seems to like him or has made any real use of him. Just deal with him when he's there and soon enough he'll be gone again.

Anyway, I would prefer if we could stick to the "game at hand." Otherwise the "point" of the thread is kind of mutilated beyond all recognition.

Guess its not really a big deal, though. Oh well...

[magus113]

You know what? I think I might jump on my copy of Dawn of Souls. I'm out of the house more often than not so I can have it tag along on my DS. So I'm in!

I'm gonna start off with Fighter, White Mage, Black Mage, and Red Mage if I so choose. Might swap the last one out for Monk since cheaper to start with, but whatever. I like being overly offensive in my RPG playing strategies.

[magus113]

Man is this game retarded easy with the adjustments they made. I'm outside of Elfheim trying to make some money for new magic etc, etc. I got the Red Mage instead of the monk however.

[magus113]

Come on, don't tell me thread is dying after I get started on a game. :(

So now I'm four hours into the game, here's an update. I took care of waking up the elf prince, and I just got into Melmond and I'm just walking around like it's all good with my mystic key. Obviously I picked up everything from the locked rooms since I was able to get into Melmond. Gotta level up some before I try and tackle this vampire in the Cave of the Earth.

[Ginkasa]

I'm just about done. I've been slowly chipping away at the Temple of Chaos Past, abusing my memo save for everything.

Mine is not so easy as the GBA version :p

[Typhoid]

If anyone can suggest any 'must play' Final Fantasy's previous to 7, or 3/6.
And what system/handheld it would be for would be mega helpful.

[magus113]

If anyone can suggest any 'must play' Final Fantasy's previous to 7, or 3/6.
And what system/handheld it would be for would be mega helpful.

The DS remake of 4 is actually pretty fucking solid, and I like the Origins ports of FF1/2 on the PSX if you can't get a hold of a PSP for the Anniversary Editions of 1/2

[magus113]

I'm just about done. I've been slowly chipping away at the Temple of Chaos Past, abusing my memo save for everything.

Mine is not so easy as the GBA version :p

I hear you, I feel kind of cheap doing it, but I've been trying to finish these first two games for years and I've never gotten around to finally doing it. Slow the hell down though! I want to catch up on 2! I won't be playing through FF3 again though so I guess maybe that could be my catch-up time.

[magus113]

Random sidenote, but when we do get to FF4, are we also doing The After Years?

[Typhoid]

The DS remake of 4 is actually pretty fucking solid, and I like the Origins ports of FF1/2 on the PSX if you can't get a hold of a PSP for the Anniversary Editions of 1/2

There's a DS remake of one of them?
I had no idea.
Thanks.

(That looks like it's dripping with sarcasm, but it's not.)

[magus113]

There's a DS remake of one of them?
I had no idea.
Thanks.

(That looks like it's dripping with sarcasm, but it's not.)

There's a DS remake of 3(Jap) that's the only legit way to play it without an emulator and a translated ROM. I have that one too. It's a good game but not the best to be honest.

[Ginkasa]

Random sidenote, but when we do get to FF4, are we also doing The After Years?


No, I personally want to stick with just the core titles (so no After Years, X-2, Revenant Wings, or VII Compilation).

I'll probably tackle After Years at the end, though, and if this thread is still active I may throw it in. I was going through it, but then my Wii got stolen and I haven't re-bought it yet, so...

Anyway, I just completed FFI a few minutes ago, I'll post my "overall" impressions and thoughts on that here in a bit, and then update with FFII.

Also, if Magus or anyone who is secretly playing along hasn't completed I don't worry about it. Go at your own pace. If you didn't want to play through I, but feel like jumping in with II feel free. And if you don't want to play at all, but want to post your thoughts on the current or prior games feel free as well.

[Ginkasa]

As I stated above I have just beaten FFI. I've beaten the game once before; it was the same version (Origins) right after it came out, so about 7 years ago or so. I have played the original on the NES, but I never got very far in it.

I beat it this time with a class of Warrior/Knight, Monk/Master, Black Mage/Wizard, and a White Mage/Wizard. Not very exciting, but I like balance. I kind of got frustrated with my Monk, though. I probably would go for another Warrior next time. The Monk gets strong later, sure, but not that much stronger than the Warrior and he takes a lot more damage. The only real benefit is not having to buy equipment, but I never had any issues with gil and could have easily afforded a second Warrior's equipment.

One thing in FFI that seems odd to me is the balance between normal enemies and bosses. In most of the games the enemies in the dungeons are usually just speed bumps on the way to boss. Sure, it ramps up in difficulty for the final dungeon and special dungeons, but for the most part they're there for farming exp and gil, not much else. In FFI, however, I actually had more difficulty with the normal enemies.

I guess it has more to do with a lack of resources and save points than the enemies themselves. Potions restore a set amount of health, no percentage, so their usefulness ends pretty quick and there aren't any "Hi-Potions" or anything later on. Magic does better, but you have a maximum of 9 casts per healing spell and that's only if you don't plan on using any of the other spells on the same level. They get used up quit, too. So I ended up running from battles just trying to save my resources to fight the boss at the end and be able to heal only to find that the bosses are pretty easy. They only have slightly more health than normal enemies and can usually be defeated in one or two rounds. Even the final boss only lasted me about 5 rounds. They don't hit hard either; some enemies hit almost as hard, except that you have to fight up to 9 of them all spamming the same friggin' attack.

Its an interesting dynamic. Instead of very difficult boss fights where you need all of your resources, FFI has relatively easy boss fights, but you're usually pretty spent by the time you get there.

Ultimately, my view on FFI is the same as most 8-bit titles of long running series (of course, my version was closer to 16-bit): its interesting to see where the series evolved from, but the older version just can't compare to the later games.

[Ginkasa]

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070325151105/finalfantasy/images/f/f0/FFII_PSP_Logo.jpg

Final Fantasy II wiki page (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy_II)


Originally released in Japan in 1988 for the Nintendo Famicom. It was initially going to be localized for NA as Final Fantasy: Shadow Over Palakia. By this point, however, FFIV had already been released in Japan. It was decided to skip over the newly outdated NES titles and jump straight to the new SNES. Final Fantasy II was not released in American until 2003 as part of the Final Fantasy Origins collection along with Final Fantasy I.

Final Fantasy II follows the characters Firion, Gus, and Maria as they oppose the mighty Empire. The three main characters are often joined by different characters who fill the fourth slot in the battle menu. The most important of these is Leon, Maria's brother. Leon starts as an ally to Firion and the crew, but later can be found fighting against them only to switch back to side of good near the end of the game.

FFII followed the apparent 8-bit sequel trend by more or less ignoring the first game in the series. While the changes weren't as drastic as, say, The Legend of Zelda to Zelda II: Adventure of Link, it still had very little in common with the original Final Fantasy. Rather than using the same "level" system used in FFI (and every other FF until FFX), FFII takes a more "realistic" approach. Your character's stats increased only as you used the ability that goes with it (strength rises when you attack; defense rises when you're attacked; etc.). There are no experiences points or anything similar. Generally, this system has been disliked and has caused FFII to be considered by many the "black sheep" of the series.

Other changes from FFI and introductions that proved more popular and were carried on:

- The playable characters now had preset names and personalities. Also, the fourth party member frequently changed and was oftentimes completely absent. This feature is abandoned in the third game but resurrected and remains for all other core FF releases.
- A more dynamic plot with a larger cast of characters and a more visible enemies (also ignored for FFIII, but is found in all subsequent releases).
- Chocobos
- The recurring character of Cid.

In North American FFII has seen a couple of different releases, usually alongside FFI:

- As part of the Final Fantasy Origins collection for the PSX in 2003. The game was updated from the Famicom original with better graphics and slight interface tweaks to modernize gameplay.
- As part of Final Fantasy I&II Dawn of Souls for the GBA. This version has a few more graphical tweaks. Also removed the "cancel" glitch that allowed players to quickly and easily "level-up" their characters. Also added bonus dungeon.
- For the PSP with further updated graphics and another bonus dungeon.
- Also for the iPhone with added touch screen capability.

Also, one last thing. With the introduction of Cid comes a new feature for these posts: Cid Watch! A spotlight on the various characters named Cid that appear in every Final Fantasy game following FFII.

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080117234627/finalfantasy/images/b/b0/Cid-ff2-gba.jpg

The first Cid has no last name. He can initially be found in the town of Poft and offers rides on his airship for a fee. He later helps the party and even sacrifices his life for the good of the rebellion. Cid's association with airships is often continued in the later games of the series.


*****


I plan on playing the Origins version of FFII. I plan on highly exploiting the "cancel" glitch which later releases remove. This will be the first time I have beaten the game (well, hopefully), but not the first time I've played it. I played the Origins before after beating FFI for the first time. I quit a ways into the game due to the levelling system. Maria was never attacked in the early parts of the game which meant her HP stayed really low which meant when she was attacked in the later bits she was usually killed in one hit. I wasn't aware I could have her attack herself and didn't have the patience to try to get enemies to attack her. We'll see how it goes this time.

[magus113]

Dammit! I just defeated the Lich. I'm so behind already. :( I hear what you're saying about the normal enemy difficulty. It's not so much that they're difficult, it's just that you can only prep and lvl so much but the random encounter rate is just really really high on occasion. We'll see how I keep up with the rest of the game, and if I can hold my ground in FF2 this time.

Truth be told it's not my personal favorite.

[Ginkasa]

I don't think FFII is anyone's personal favorite.

[magus113]

I don't think FFII is anyone's personal favorite.

I had a co-worker that liked it. I dunno, he's weird though.

[TheSlyMoogle]

I had a co-worker that liked it. I dunno, he's weird though.

Sure he wasn't talking about the original American FF2?

[TheSlyMoogle]

Also are you going to play final fantasy tactics? Because if you've never played it, I highly suggest you play it as part of this. Such an amazing game.

[magus113]

Also are you going to play final fantasy tactics? Because if you've never played it, I highly suggest you play it as part of this. Such an amazing game.

This so hard. I loved the War of the Lions remake. It was definitely a great way to redo a great game.

[TheSlyMoogle]

Yup such a good game.

So since I have decided to do something I wanted to do for a while while you're busting out FF1-3.

I'm going to do an all thief run of FF 1 using the original NES version.

Supposedly one of the hardest things to do in a ff game is this.

Going to do it.

I know you're thinking "WHITE MAGE WOULD BE RETARDED HARD"

But this is only true until you get White Wizard.

[magus113]

Yup such a good game.

So since I have decided to do something I wanted to do for a while while you're busting out FF1-3.

I'm going to do an all thief run of FF 1 using the original NES version.

Supposedly one of the hardest things to do in a ff game is this.

Going to do it.

I know you're thinking "WHITE MAGE WOULD BE RETARDED HARD"

But this is only true until you get White Wizard.

I will definitely believe this. White Mages/Wizards are pretty decent if only because they have good defense but not physical power. Thiefs...eh. Not a fan.

[magus113]

Also, I got the airship and did my class change. Just getting some spells for the red wizard (which I haven't been really using much of so I guess I could have been better off with two warriors) and some other things I might have missed.

Running around looking for stuff had farmed like 400,000 gil for me so I was able to get the best weapon for the black wizard without a problem, along with the worthwhile lvl. 7 black and white magic.

Now to get the other two crystals taken care of.

[magus113]

And FF1 completed! Gotta say, the more I played it, the more I realized that it hasn't really aged well at all.

Be that as it may, this is my first time finishing the game. Took me 13 hours and I'm glad I can add this game to my belt of finished classics if you will. Maybe one day I'll give FF1 a go on Origins or the original NES version to give myself a true test of difficulty, but for now FF2. I'll be playing the version on Origins for this one.

Let's hope I can stick it out this time.

[magus113]

An hour into it and I can already tell that this might be troublesome.

[Ginkasa]

The best way to play II, IMO, is to go crazy and seriously overpower yourself in the beginning of the game. I had all three core party members at 1000+ HP with weapon skills or magic at level 10 before I even stepped foot into anything even slightly resembling a dungeon.

You don't maybe need to go that far with it if you don't have the patience or time, but training up to a respectable level will definitely make the game much more enjoyable. Otherwise its just frustrating.

[magus113]

What I'm thinking of doing is having Maria as a mage, both white/black with more emphasis on white, and an archer since she'll be better taking less damage in the back (that's what he said). Firion can be the sword wielder with the shields and whatnot. Gus right now is just a brute. I already went to this place across the lake or whatever, forgot the name. I'll work on stuff around there.

[magus113]

After playing about two hours and trying to the first boss taken care of to get the Mythril, I can't help but feel like I accomplished absolutely nothing at all. I mean not only that, but I got my ass kicked by this guy. Barely made it out alive.

I mean am I doing something wrong here? :(

[magus113]

I started over, I got another two hours in.

I have Firion as a white mage because of his agility, and the spirit will come with abuse of the white magic usage. He knows Cure which is about to become Cure 3 pretty soon, and he's proficient enough with a sword when his MP runs out with the healing spells from overuse.

Maria is my black mage and she sits in the front for right now to get some more damage to bring her HP up. She has all the black magic spells available from the first town and they're all at least level 2 right now, and I haven't set foot in Fynn yet.

Gus is just riding it out, but he's able to do okay with very minimal armor right now since the enemies don't hurt too hard but they hurt enough to get the HP stats up, but I think that's something I'll worry about more when I'm gonna set into the first dungeon later. I'll focus more on stats and skill progression for the time being.

To give the enemies more chances to attack me for raising my HP stat, I actually have Maria cast a black magic spell on my entire party and then Firion comes in and heals the entire party while Gus takes out the enemies one at a time. It seems to be working out well enough on the world map. If Firion runs out of MP, then he assists Gus, and Maria casts BM spells on individual enemies. Once Maria and Firion are out of MP it's back to the Inn and repeat.

At least I'll have a shitton of money by then to get all the other spells I'll be missing.

[Ginkasa]

Basically, the key is just get your stats up. You're doing it completely differently from how I did it, but I think it should work. Depending on your play style you might regret later on having Firion as a white mage. I'm not exactly an expert, but I've had Maria handling both schools of magic. Firion and Gus both act as the physical attackers.

I'm ridiculously overpowered, though, so your strategy might work better for a "normal" team.

[magus113]

I think I'm finally starting to get the hang of things, even if it is a tad monotonous and time consuming. Just got the Mythril again and it went much much smoother this time.

It's a shame this game seems unplayable to me without exploiting the whole "attacking your own members or yourself for endurance and HP points" stuff. I couldn't imagine it working out that well without it.

[magus113]

9.5 hours into it and that long grind session for the first five hours is really starting to show how well it pays off. I've only had to worry about gil as far as buying armor is concerned. My characters are all generally strong now too, so I haven't found it completely necessary to be buying new weapons for my characters.

I'm currently on the way to get the Goddess Bell. Josef is already in my party. Just making my way through the Snow Cavern and taking my time to make sure I check everything out before I eventually take out the boss.

Oh and bump! I hope I'm not the only one still doing this D:

[Ginkasa]

I'm... I don't know how many hours into it, but I've retrieved Ultima and the Emperor has unleashed the Cyclone. Firion and Gus both have 3000+ HP. Maria only has about 1700. Firion is maxed on swords, Gus on axes. Maria has all the spells I frequently use at 10+. I have, like, 300,000+ gil.

I expect I'll finish and post full impressions in a day or two. Maybe three.

[TheSlyMoogle]

The Brotherhood of the Traveling Shank

Day 1:

So I started off today, with 4 thieves, named:
John
Ryan
Bill
and for hilarity... EARL in all caps. Just so when I lose the battles I know I inevitably will lose, I can blame it on Earl.

Oh and the rest of this post will have to wait for a bit.

[magus113]

I'm... I don't know how many hours into it, but I've retrieved Ultima and the Emperor has unleashed the Cyclone. Firion and Gus both have 3000+ HP. Maria only has about 1700. Firion is maxed on swords, Gus on axes. Maria has all the spells I frequently use at 10+. I have, like, 300,000+ gil.

I expect I'll finish and post full impressions in a day or two. Maybe three.

Just out of curiosity it seems like you have so much time to dedicate to this...how?!

[Ginkasa]

Just out of curiosity it seems like you have so much time to dedicate to this...how?!


Funds have been pretty low, so my wife and I haven't really been able to go out and do a whole lot lately. We usually just veg around at the apartment when I'm not working and she's not at school. I'm either playing a game (which is, of course, been Final Fantasy lately) and she's either doing homework or procrastinating on her homework and playing a game. Sometimes we watch a movie.

Hopefully in the next couple of months we'll be moved and settled and I'll have less excuses to stay home and do nothing. Although, it really only took me about 22 hours to beat FFII which really isn't that much, relatively.

Oh, yeah, I just finished. Beat the Emperor in just one hit. I was crazy over-powered. Ultimately, even though the game is completely broken on multiple levels there is still fun to be had. It was kind of cool not having to worry about, you know, dying or anything like that. I just sort of breezed through the game. Since everything I've read suggests that not being overpowered causes the game to be uber frustrating and not fun at all I don't really mind the lack of a challenge.

Also, except for the initial training hump at the beginning (about 4 or 5 hours total) it wasn't that difficult maintaining my advantage.

***

One thing I noticed about II which I wasn't expecting was actually how much more it felt like a Final Fantasy game over I. Mostly everything you hear about II is regarding the awful "levelling" system and how its broken and unbalanced. The general expectation is that the game is nothing like other Final Fantasy games, but I think its really the opposite. If it wasn't for the Black and White Mages there's really nothing in I that reminds you you're playing an FF game. II, however, has a story that fits in well with the rest of the series, chocobos, Cid, dragoons, an ambiguously evil/good guy, etc. Almost everything that really defines Final Fantasy (at least through to IX) really came from II.

The story, also, is pretty hardcore as far as things go. This most certainly has the highest body count of real characters of any core FF and really paints a bleak picture. I mean, you kill the main bad guy only for him to conquer and break out of hell and unleash it upon the earth. Sephiroth can't claim that. The only real issue with the story is presentation which is expected since it was an NES title originally. If SE ever thought to themselves "We should totally remake Final Fantasy II with and expanded story, better developed characters, and a completely rebuilt from scratch game design!" I would totally buy it. I don't know. I just see a lot of fluffy awesome potential in II's story.

***

Anyway, that's it for me on FFII. If anyone (magus) is still playing II, feel free to go at your own pace. Same thing if anyone is on I (I want progress updates on your thief run, TSM!). I'll be moving on to III soon. I think there were some people waiting for III (?), so maybe we'll get some more company soon.

[Ginkasa]

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20071105025822/finalfantasy/images/archive/2/21/20080227041300%21Ff3-DSlogo.jpg

Final Fantasy III wiki page (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy_III)


Originally released in Japan for the Nintendo Famicom in 1990, Final Fantasy III was the second game to not initially receive a North American release. Unlike FFII, a domestic release was not even considered since they had already committed to releasing Final Fantasy IV for the SNES instead. Final Fantasy III was the last of the "unreleased" games to finally receive localization via a complete remake for the Nintendo DS in 2006 with several changes to the story and gameplay. To date, there still has not been a release of the original game in NA making Final Fantasy III in some ways the "final" Final Fantasy.

The original Famicom version focus on four un-named orphans who are dubbed the Warriors of Light after discovering the Crystal of Wind. They are charged with relighting the four Crystals of Light and restoring balance to the world. The DS remake gives the four orphans names and personalities and slightly alters the early events of the game to allow the player to meet and recruit each one. Luneth is the main character and, in this version, is the only person who discovers the crystal of wind. He is then charged with finding the additional Warriors of Light. They are Arc, Luneth's best friend, Refia, the daughter of a blacksmith, and Ingus, a Knight of Sasune.

The gameplay of III takes more inspiration from I than II. III introduces the Job System which allows the 4 warriors to train in any class and to also switch classes later on. These include the original 6 classes from FFI and add an additional 17 classes. III also introduced class specific abilities (like Jump or Steal) rather than simply having each class alter stats and weapon choices.

A few other new items introduced in III and carried on to later games:

- Moogles (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Moogles)
- Summons

At this point, most of the recurring features of the Final Fantasy series have been introduced. Future games simply expand on the existing ideas or introduce new elements that don't get carried over into future games.

As noted previously, Final Fantasy III has only been legally released in NA on the Nintendo DS. It is possible, however, to find the original game emulated with a fanslation. Also, an interesting note: Final Fantasy III is the only core FF title to have not seen a release on a Sony console or any console other than ones made by Nintendo. A port to the Wonderswan was planned, but eventually cancelled due to programming difficulties.

Cid Watch:

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080225153701/finalfantasy/images/4/4d/FFIII_Cid.jpg

Cid Haze is the first Cid to have his very own last name. The characters first meet Cid very early in the game and help him break the curse of the djinn. For their help, Cid donates his airship to the group (but it doesn't last long) and then retires with his wife. Cid returns later in the game to upgrade the group's ship into another airship and reveals that he played a key role in the orphan's origins.

This Cid essentially established the name as a recurring role and also placed into a slightly larger supporting role than in Final Fantasy II. This also cements Cid's association with airships.


*****

Alright, so Final Fantasy III! This is another game I've never beaten. I played it and a got somewhat far, but I've never been a fan of the Job system (either in this or V) and gave up the game when it basically said "Have all dragoons or die!" I thought the game was cheating. Anyway, we'll see how it goes this time.

I will, of course, be playing it on the DS. I'm interested to see if anyone will be or has played the original version via ROM? I'd like to see anyone's thoughts on the original version.

[Typhoid]

I just borrowed FF IV for the DS from Dylflon, so if I get around to it I'll post progress and thoughts.


Edit: I was going to also borrow III, but I turned it down after he said it was "meh".

[magus113]

I'm still gonna be on FFII for a while probably, but I'm not jumping in on III as I've already finished it. Grats on II though. I want to finally see what's up with this game so we'll see what happens.

[magus113]

Well sadly, my progress in II has been stunted because of the free weekend of Modern Warfare 2 on Steam, my compelling urge to keep watching Cardcaptor Sakura for some reason, and my ever looming research paper (which is late).

I'm trying to get my paper done by tonight so maybe I can hit it up. I made it to Castle Kas'ion at any rate. I'm trying to beef the prince up a little bit. He's kind of a wuss. But that shouldn't be too difficult. Firion and Maria are weak enough to get his HP low enough without dying to get his HP, and weapon mastery should come with it.

I think after Castle Kas'ion I'm gonna try to beef up Firion, Maria, and Gus up a little more. Firion and Maria's MP is a bit too low for my tastes so I'm gonna do some Faze action and see how that goes. Everyone's HP should probably come up too.

My biggest issue with getting HP and MP up is that it's very costly, so once money starts to run a little low there's a bit too much money grinding that has to go on to make sure I can front the bills for the inns and there really isn't that much gil thrown around by enemies, at least not in this area.

[Ginkasa]

Regarding gil, you can play a game of Concentration on the snowcraft by holding O and pressing X about 20 times (similar to the number game in FFI). If you can beat it without making any mistakes you'll get 40,000 gil (plus some other awesome things like an Elixir). Even if make a couple of mistakes you'll learn a few thousand gil. Also, there is kind of a way to cheat it. Basically, there are only 32 combinations of characters in FFII's concentration and they also go in the same order. So if you play it once, write down where everyone is, then cancel out of it 31 times you should get that same original combination. Since its written down you'll know exactly where everyone is.

Its kind of cheap, but it'll take care of your money problems for a while. And eventually, you'll start finding so much gil in dungeons and so much extra equipment you can sell off you won't need to be worrying about gil at all. I think I ended II with over a half a million in extra gil lying around and absolutely none of it was from the snowcraft game.

****

As for me, I have finally passed the part I quit at last time. As I kind of hinted at before it was where you have to fight Garuda and essentially you need to either be crazy over-levelled or have a bunch of dragoons jumping around. They even have a bunch of people in game say, "Hey, beat it with a dragoon!" and practically hand you four sets of dragoon equipment. Unforunately, the first time I tried it (with dragoons) they all died, and again, and again. I figured you had to raise your dragoons job levels to crazy heights which I thought was ridiculous. So, I quit the game in frustration.

This time I pretty much had the same troubles. I died about 2-3 times before finally the cards just landed right and I was able to beat Garuda. Essentially I just had to cross my fingers that Garuda's attacks would fall after I jumped and then before I landed. And pray he didn't spam Lightning.

Anyway, I'm a bit past that now. I just received the Invincible and am now being told I have to be Dark Knights to survive the next dungeons. Gosh darn this game is annoying.

[Typhoid]

Wake me up when you guys start playing IV, so I can play it with you.

[magus113]

Regarding gil, you can play a game of Concentration on the snowcraft by holding O and pressing X about 20 times (similar to the number game in FFI). If you can beat it without making any mistakes you'll get 40,000 gil (plus some other awesome things like an Elixir). Even if make a couple of mistakes you'll learn a few thousand gil. Also, there is kind of a way to cheat it. Basically, there are only 32 combinations of characters in FFII's concentration and they also go in the same order. So if you play it once, write down where everyone is, then cancel out of it 31 times you should get that same original combination. Since its written down you'll know exactly where everyone is.

Its kind of cheap, but it'll take care of your money problems for a while. And eventually, you'll start finding so much gil in dungeons and so much extra equipment you can sell off you won't need to be worrying about gil at all. I think I ended II with over a half a million in extra gil lying around and absolutely none of it was from the snowcraft game.

****

As for me, I have finally passed the part I quit at last time. As I kind of hinted at before it was where you have to fight Garuda and essentially you need to either be crazy over-levelled or have a bunch of dragoons jumping around. They even have a bunch of people in game say, "Hey, beat it with a dragoon!" and practically hand you four sets of dragoon equipment. Unforunately, the first time I tried it (with dragoons) they all died, and again, and again. I figured you had to raise your dragoons job levels to crazy heights which I thought was ridiculous. So, I quit the game in frustration.

This time I pretty much had the same troubles. I died about 2-3 times before finally the cards just landed right and I was able to beat Garuda. Essentially I just had to cross my fingers that Garuda's attacks would fall after I jumped and then before I landed. And pray he didn't spam Lightning.

Anyway, I'm a bit past that now. I just received the Invincible and am now being told I have to be Dark Knights to survive the next dungeons. Gosh darn this game is annoying.

I actually had to go and train two ninjas and buy a fuckton of shurikens for Cloud of Darkness because everyone else did diddly-dick on her. It was quite obnoxious.

[Ginkasa]

Whoo! Beat III. Having now beaten the Cloud of Darkness I am actually wondering what all the hype was about. I beat her on my first try (thank goodness; I don't think I would want to marathon through the Crystal Tower and the World of Darkness more than once). Granted, I had also planned ahead and started training Ingus as a Ninja as soon as it was available. I also accumulated tons of gil whilst training and had about 35 Shurkiens going into the battle.

I did lose Luneth, but everyone else withstood Particle Beam like a champ. My final party had Luneth as a Knight, Arc as a Summoner, Refia as a Devout, and Ingus as a Ninja. Levels were 56-57. Battle only lasted around 5 rounds.

Anyway, as for the game as whole... I doubt I'll be revisiting it anytime soon. It had its charm, but Job system has always annoyed me and the story is way too inconsistent to really be enjoyable. It seems to say that light and dark are equal with neither being inherently good or evil, but then its the Cloud of Darkness being fought in the World of Darkness because everybody's trying to cover the world in darkness. I wish they had just gone for something simpler if they couldn't handle the concept yet.

Anyway, I really don't have many thoughts on III. Its apparently held in really high regard in Japan - it was voted one of the best games ever, supposedly. I think they're crazy. The Job system is just way too clunky and abused by the game to be that great. When I get to V we'll see if Square improved on the concept.

IV's post coming up shortly.

[Ginkasa]

Psst. Typhoid! Wake up!
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20050418233102/finalfantasy/images/c/ce/Ff4_logo.png

Final Fantasy IV wiki page (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy_IV)


Released in 1991 in the Japan for the Super Famicom. FFIV was released in NA later that year for the SNES under the title Final Fantasy II due to the original II and III not being released in NA. IV was the first FF game to be released for a 16-bit console.

Final Fantasy IV's story exponentially improved on the tales told in prior games. Characters now were devloped beyond single lines and simple traits and had relationships that grew and changed through the game. Villains were not simply evil incarnate, but had a past and motives beyond "death to everything because I say." Well, mostly. IV also featured a much larger and diverse cast of characters including:

- Cecil Harvey: The main character and a Dark Knight from the kingdom of Baron. In the game he has to discover the goodness within himself.

- Rosa Farrell: A white mage and Cecil's girlfriend (fiancé?). She supports Cecil and stands at his side.

- Kain Highwind: A childhood friend of Cecil's. He also harbors feelings for Rosa, but doesn't pursue them out of respect for the pair.

- Rydia: A summoner orphaned through Cecil's actions. She learns to trust Cecil and fight's at his side.

- Tellah: An old mage who has sworn revenge upon the man who killed his daughter. Dislikes spoony bards.

- Edward von Muir: A spoony bard, but also maybe something more regal in disguise. Edward was in love with Tellah's daughter, and assisted Cecil after she died.

- Yang Fang: A monk from Fabul. Yang joins Cecil after his kingdom is attacked by Baron.

- Palom and Porom: Two children mages from the village of Mysidia. They are assigned to assist Cecil in his ordeals and ultimately give everything to help him.

- Edge: Prince of Eblan and a ninja. Edge has a personal vendetta against Cecil's enemies and assists Cecil in defeating them.

- Cid Pollendina: We'll get to him later.

Systems introduced to the series by IV:

- The Active Time Battle system. Rather than each character in battle patiently waiting their turn to strike, battles ran in somewhat real time. A specific amount of real time would have to pass before a character, whether an enemy or PC, could have a turn. This meant the battle continually advanced without pause. If set to "Active" enemies would even attack if the player was in a menu looking for an item or spell.

- Characters now had a preset role (inspired by the "Job system" from III) that could not be changed. They learned spells and abilities by levelling up with no other input from the player. There are only two instances where a character changes roles or grows within their roles; these are both determined by the story.

- The party line-up constantly changes throughout the game. Unlike later games, this is entirely decided by the story. Characters would enter or leave the party as the story dictated. The only constant was Cecil.

- Due to the lack of input into character's growth, players now had the use of up to 5 characters in battle at one time. This is the only FF game to allow more than 4 characters in battle.

Several different versions of IV have been released in NA:

- As Final Fantasy II for the SNES. This version had many changes to it beyond the simple name change. Primarily, the game was made much easier for the American audience. Certain rare items (like Ethers) were made more common while certain spells and abilities that added more strategy to game were removed. "II" was also edited slightly for content. This version was later released on the Wii's Virtual Console.

- Released as part of the "Final Fantasy Chronicles" collection for the PlayStation. It was released as IV for the first time. It contained the original version of the game (minus the changes made during its initial localization) and an new and improved translation. It also featured new FMVs before and after the game.

- Released as Final Fantasy IV for the GameBoy Advance. This version slightly upgraded the graphics in the battles menus and further improved the translation. It also added the "ATB bar" to the menu similar to later FF titles. Finally, it added the ability to switch party members later in the game and several new dungeons after the final boss has been beaten. Unfortunately, this version also included numerous bugs and glitches not in prior versions.

- A complete remake for the Nintendo DS. This made many slight changes to the game overall. Primarily, however, the game now had full 3D graphics and voice-acting during certain cutscenes. It also added a few more scenes to further flesh out the story. Also included was the new "augment" system which allowed characters to use additional abilities to their own and Whyt, a new summon for Rydia whose appearance is customizable and whose stats grow through various minigames.

Additionally, Final Fantasy IV is the "earliest" FF (but not the first) to receive a sequel. "Final Fantasy IV: The After Years" was released as an episodic game, similar to the original IV in gameplay, for mobile phones. It was released in NA as WiiWare for the Nintendo Wii. It takes place 17 years after the original game and showcases the return of every surviving character, plus some new characters such as Ceodore, Cecil and Rosa's son.

And finally, Cid Watch!:

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081014173335/finalfantasy/images/5/5d/Cidpollendina.jpg

Cid Pollendina is the first out of only two Cids to serve as a playable character. His appearance and role in the story is somewhat similar to III. He is the chief engineer in charge of Baron's airship fleet. Having more loyalty to Cecil, however, Cid joins him in his battle.


****

I will be playing the DS remake. The "FFII" version is... not really real. The PSX has awful loading times and the GBA version has all those weird glitches and such. The DS version is the best, IMO, minus some shaky voice acting.

[magus113]

Psst. Typhoid! Wake up!
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20050418233102/finalfantasy/images/c/ce/Ff4_logo.png

Final Fantasy IV wiki page (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy_IV)


Released in 1991 in the Japan for the Super Famicom. FFIV was released in NA later that year for the SNES under the title Final Fantasy II due to the original II and III not being released in NA. IV was the first FF game to be released for a 16-bit console.

Final Fantasy IV's story exponentially improved on the tales told in prior games. Characters now were devloped beyond single lines and simple traits and had relationships that grew and changed through the game. Villains were not simply evil incarnate, but had a past and motives beyond "death to everything because I say." Well, mostly. IV also featured a much larger and diverse cast of characters including:

- Cecil Harvey: The main character and a Dark Knight from the kingdom of Baron. In the game he has to discover the goodness within himself.

- Rosa Farrell: A white mage and Cecil's girlfriend (fiancé?). She supports Cecil and stands at his side.

- Kain Highwind: A childhood friend of Cecil's. He also harbors feelings for Rosa, but doesn't pursue them out of respect for the pair.

- Rydia: A summoner orphaned through Cecil's actions. She learns to trust Cecil and fight's at his side.

- Tellah: An old mage who has sworn revenge upon the man who killed his daughter. Dislikes spoony bards.

- Edward von Muir: A spoony bard, but also maybe something more regal in disguise. Edward was in love with Tellah's daughter, and assisted Cecil after she died.

- Yang Fang: A monk from Fabul. Yang joins Cecil after his kingdom is attacked by Baron.

- Palom and Porom: Two children mages from the village of Mysidia. They are assigned to assist Cecil in his ordeals and ultimately give everything to help him.

- Edge: Prince of Eblan and a ninja. Edge has a personal vendetta against Cecil's enemies and assists Cecil in defeating them.

- Cid Pollendina: We'll get to him later.

Systems introduced to the series by IV:

- The Active Time Battle system. Rather than each character in battle patiently waiting their turn to strike, battles ran in somewhat real time. A specific amount of real time would have to pass before a character, whether an enemy or PC, could have a turn. This meant the battle continually advanced without pause. If set to "Active" enemies would even attack if the player was in a menu looking for an item or spell.

- Characters now had a preset role (inspired by the "Job system" from III) that could not be changed. They learned spells and abilities by levelling up with no other input from the player. There are only two instances where a character changes roles or grows within their roles; these are both determined by the story.

- The party line-up constantly changes throughout the game. Unlike later games, this is entirely decided by the story. Characters would enter or leave the party as the story dictated. The only constant was Cecil.

- Due to the lack of input into character's growth, players now had the use of up to 5 characters in battle at one time. This is the only FF game to allow more than 4 characters in battle.

Several different versions of IV have been released in NA:

- As Final Fantasy II for the SNES. This version had many changes to it beyond the simple name change. Primarily, the game was made much easier for the American audience. Certain rare items (like Ethers) were made more common while certain spells and abilities that added more strategy to game were removed. "II" was also edited slightly for content. This version was later released on the Wii's Virtual Console.

- Released as part of the "Final Fantasy Chronicles" collection for the PlayStation. It was released as IV for the first time. It contained the original version of the game (minus the changes made during its initial localization) and an new and improved translation. It also featured new FMVs before and after the game.

- Released as Final Fantasy IV for the GameBoy Advance. This version slightly upgraded the graphics in the battles menus and further improved the translation. It also added the "ATB bar" to the menu similar to later FF titles. Finally, it added the ability to switch party members later in the game and several new dungeons after the final boss has been beaten. Unfortunately, this version also included numerous bugs and glitches not in prior versions.

- A complete remake for the Nintendo DS. This made many slight changes to the game overall. Primarily, however, the game now had full 3D graphics and voice-acting during certain cutscenes. It also added a few more scenes to further flesh out the story. Also included was the new "augment" system which allowed characters to use additional abilities to their own and Whyt, a new summon for Rydia whose appearance is customizable and whose stats grow through various minigames.

Additionally, Final Fantasy IV is the "earliest" FF (but not the first) to receive a sequel. "Final Fantasy IV: The After Years" was released as an episodic game, similar to the original IV in gameplay, for mobile phones. It was released in NA as WiiWare for the Nintendo Wii. It takes place 17 years after the original game and showcases the return of every surviving character, plus some new characters such as Ceodore, Cecil and Rosa's son.

And finally, Cid Watch!:

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081014173335/finalfantasy/images/5/5d/Cidpollendina.jpg

Cid Pollendina is the first out of only two Cids to serve as a playable character. His appearance and role in the story is somewhat similar to III. He is the chief engineer in charge of Baron's airship fleet. Having more loyalty to Cecil, however, Cid joins him in his battle.


****

I will be playing the DS remake. The "FFII" version is... not really real. The PSX has awful loading times and the GBA version has all those weird glitches and such. The DS version is the best, IMO, minus some shaky voice acting.

I thought the DS voice acting was pretty spot on to be honest.
But oh well.

[Typhoid]

I'll start playing the DS one as soon as I get back from physio today.
I don't know how long it'll take me to do - I've never played it before.

[magus113]

It's a decent length for a handheld RPG. I think you could do it with grinding in 25-30 hours

[Ginkasa]

Just an update partially to say "Hey, I'm still playin!" but also because I'm bored.

Right now I'm about to enter the Tower of Babil. I've held off for a couple of days 'cause I really haven't had that much time to play and the Tower of Babil is a bit of a longer dungeon. Yes, I have "Quicksave," but I hate to quit in the middle of a dungeon.

Anyway....

Rather than writing an awesome novel or making a cool short video or concocting a plan to make in Hollywood I was thinking about the FF series the other day. Particularly I was thinking about a pattern I had once heard about. Basically, I had read once that "fans" considered the series to follow a "even/odd" pattern similarly to the Star Trek movies. However, instead of one being good and the other bad, the odds focused on gameplay and the evens focused on story. This only applied to I-VI.

I was thinking about that and decided they were wrong. While I do agree you could see a pattern with the odds and evens it wasn't what they thought. I think they both focus on story and gameplay equally (for the most part). It has more to do with the tone and themes of the games. Essentially, if someone played I, III, and V and told those were part of one series and then played II, IV, and VI and were told those were part of a different series, I think they could be easily convinced.

Let's look at the odds: I, III, and V. Each game has the "Job system" in some form. In "I" you choose the jobs at the very beginning and are stuck with them except for one optional upgrade. III and V allow you to switch throughout the game. V let's you trade abilities between jobs.

They also have stories that focus on crystals, elemental demons, and destined Warriors of Light. In each game there are 4 Warriors (with a replacement 5th member in V) that are predestined to be Warriors. They don't really rise up and prove their worth; they display crystals or orbs or Jobs and have their worth handed to them. In I and III (minus the DS remake) they don't even have names or personalities. Just their titles.

They battle not against empires or men, but forces larger than mere human comprehension. A mysterious dark force that steals light from the crystals or a demon from beyond time. The villains have no real personality or even motive beyond the death of everything.

The evens are different - II, IV, and VI. These games don't necessarily feature one continuous gameplay feature like the Job system, but they do have and different theme and tone from the other games.

For one, they each have a larger cast of characters each with personalities and personal histories with VI, of course, being the largest. Each hero is, if not necessarily a "normal" person, is also not destined to be a hero or a legend. They are gifted individuals who see evil in the world and rise up against it, even if the odds are stacked against their favor. They have relationships and hopes and dreams beyond just the current struggle or battle.

The enemies are also more complex and less ambiguous. The heroes battle earthly forces - empires and armies. The villains have reasons beyond simply "being evil" for their wicked ways. They're not demons or gods, at least not until the end - they're just really bad men.

The only hiccup to this formula is IV. It has crystals and Zermous pretty easily fits the bill for evil ambigous evil that wants to destroy existence. Also, while it doesn't have the Job system it does have characters who are clearly said to fit within the Jobs from the prior games. However, it also Golbez, who is just an really powerful (moon) man and armies and whatnot.

Maybe later I'll get into more detail about why I think the other pattern is bollocks.

[Typhoid]

I forgot I'm still playing IV! Oops.
I ended up getting stuck and didn't know what do to (most likely because of painkillers) so I gave up and haven't touched it in almost a week now. I'm probably very early on, still. My mans are only around level 20.

[magus113]

I got bit by the Modern Warfare 2 bug, and then I've been doing some charting with Earl since I found out about the double XP weekend last week. It also reminded me that I need to finish Eternal Sonata because it's good and I've barely touched it I want to say in the last month.

I'm all over the place.

[Ginkasa]

I mentioned in my previous post regardng a "gameplay/story" pattern that is supposed to be evident in the early FF titles. Basically, the odd games were supposed to focus on the gameplay while the evens simplified the gameplay while focusing on story. I also mentioned that I believe this pattern is complete dung. In the extreme delusion that anyone cares I will expand upon this belief. Please note, I did consider that maybe this pattern was dervied from the American I-III rather than the Japanese I-VI (which would completely change the dynamic, although I still think it wouldn't work), but I don't think 3 games is really enough for someone to ascertain a pattern.

So, I'll be breaking down each game and explaining why it doesn't fit the pattern. Remember, odd games are supposed to have simple stories with a greater focus on gameplay while even games are supposed have simple gameplay with a focus on story.


I: Really, since this is the first game its really hard to try to say whether it had an agenda in regards to a proposed pattern especially since there was not initially expected to be a sequel. Granted, it does have the simplest story of all the FF games and tells its story pretty poorly compared to to other jRPGs at the time, but I still don't think you could say it was the start of the pattern.

II: In the pattern's defense, II does have a more detailed and better told story than I. However, it also implemented an entirely new and different gameplay system in terms of stat increase. It also changed the gameplay around by switching up the 4th party member constantly throughough the game. Yes, you can say II has a larger focus on story, but you can't say it doesn't focus on gameplay (no matter how broken it is).

III: Its hard to really compare this one since I've never played the original Famicom version, but I still think it doesn't really fit the pattern. Sure, it introduces the Job system so there's definitely a focus on gameplay. I think the story, however, is no weaker than II's. Sure, you have nameless and faceless heroes in the original, but I feel that changes the tone more than quality. Basically, I think III comes off more as an epic poem whil II comes off more as a fantasy novel. Just different, but not inferior.

IV: This game, honestly, is the game that most closely fits the pattern. You have no choice over how your characters develop or who is in your party. Abilities are decided solely by level rather than purchasing them or levelling up jobs or whatnot. The story, of course, is the best one so far in the series. It has the best developed characters and the richest story at this point. However, it also introduced the ATB system which is the mostly widely used purely gameplay system in the series (and other series!) that wasn't initially introduced in I and is also the only game in the series to allow 5 characters in battle at once. I'd say they definitely had an eye on making it an exciting gameplay experience as well as story.

V: Once again we have the Job system. Perhaps the pattern was simply thought of because the odd games always use some form of the Job system which could be argued was pretty indepth for its time. Of course, they're ignoring that using the same system multiple times was probably easier than creating something from scratch. I'm not saying that there wasn't effort put into V (there are certainly refinements and adjustments and additions to the system from III), but I can't see how it shows the devleopers were focusing more on gameplay than story. While the story isn't as fantastic as IV, its still much better than the NES titles and has its moments. Let's just say Galuf's moment is better played than Tellah's.

VI: Yeah, arguably the best story in the series. You got me there. But it also introduced the Esper ability system (which spawned the Materia system in VII, certainly partially influenced the Junction system in VIII, is very similar to the ABility system in IX, etc.) and introduced Desparation Attacks which also influenced other similar systems in later games (most widely known are Limit Breaks from VII). It also has the most playable characters in the series each with their own unique abilities that may or may not be inspired by the Jobs from previous games. There's no way you could say the story came at the expense of the gameplay.

So, there you go. Sure, you could maybe argue that the evens games had the best stories, but I don't think you can argue that it was at the expense of the gameplay or that the odds have bad stories. Basically, people were just reading patterns into where they didn't belong.

Tune in next time as I rant on another random topic in the middle of the night!

[TheSlyMoogle]

Uhm 6 is really the only game that doesn't fit the pattern. 1,3 and 5 do have terrible stories. 5 is the worst offender in my opinion considering the time of its creation. It's pretty obvious in that game the just focused basically on the battle system. Honestly the guy probably wrote the game script in like a night while drinking copious amounts of Saki.

2 and 4 are basically just a story. You can honestly go through both just mashing buttons if you fight enough random battles.

6 is the only one with something different to offer, however... 90% of the bosses and enemies in the game can be defeated with the vanish/doom technique and there's another technique that can be used on those who can't. So I think 6 can go either way. Yeah you can make it complex, or you can just go with it.

[Ginkasa]

Uhm 6 is really the only game that doesn't fit the pattern. 1,3 and 5 do have terrible stories. 5 is the worst offender in my opinion considering the time of its creation. It's pretty obvious in that game the just focused basically on the battle system. Honestly the guy probably wrote the game script in like a night while drinking copious amounts of Saki.

2 and 4 are basically just a story. You can honestly go through both just mashing buttons if you fight enough random battles.

6 is the only one with something different to offer, however... 90% of the bosses and enemies in the game can be defeated with the vanish/doom technique and there's another technique that can be used on those who can't. So I think 6 can go either way. Yeah you can make it complex, or you can just go with it.

Okay, so rather than "Uhm, no you're dumb"ing each other why don't we actually refer to points and actually debate on something tangible than "No, I'm right because!"?

Regarding the stories, its subjective in the end. V, maybe, sure. Its not that great, but it has its moments. You disagree, so okay. I don't agree with III. Like I said before, its just different. I think the individual "episodes" within the towns and whatnot are much more memorable than the entire story of II. I can see how someone might prefer II's story, though. Again, subjective. They're just different. I is just primitive. It might not be good, but you can't say they didn't try; they didn't focus on the story.

Gameplay, however, I think you're wrong. II, yes, may be broken. It might ultimately boil down to "A, B, A, B, A" for an hour and instant win. But the system itself was brand new and it was pretty risky for a company who just on the verge of closure and only saved by a single game to completely alter the gameplay to the sequel to that game. It might be broken and easily exploitable, but there was definitely a lot of focus put on creating that system.

You're argument against IV's gameplay is silly, IMO. Pretty much any FF game can be beaten by levelling up enough or exploiting whatever system is in place. Now, granted, I did say that IV fits the bill the most. The player has no input on character development or abilities beyond levelling up. However, the additional abilities and switching up the party with completely different characters adds a lot to the gameplay. Its out of the player's control, sure, but it works. I'd say it works better than III's Job System.

And VI... really? I've never heard of the Vanish/Doom technique. Maybe its there and maybe it cheapens the gameplay. Same thing with II, though: just because its broken doesn't mean it wasn't focused upon. VI pretty much decided the path series took from then on. Pretty much everything it introduced got carried on in future games. You may not like it, there may be two spells that can be easily exploited, but the gameplay was definitely not glossed over in favor of the story.

[Ginkasa]

Yup such a good game.

So since I have decided to do something I wanted to do for a while while you're busting out FF1-3.

I'm going to do an all thief run of FF 1 using the original NES version.

Supposedly one of the hardest things to do in a ff game is this.

Going to do it.

I know you're thinking "WHITE MAGE WOULD BE RETARDED HARD"

But this is only true until you get White Wizard.


How's this going? Still happening, or abandoned?

Anyway, I beat IV a couple of days ago. I have to admit, right after beating it I had a pretty huge hankerin' to play THe AFter Years, so I bought the "core game" and got to it. I really wasn't able to get much into it. There's a couple possible reasons, but I'll stick with slight guilt that I hadn't yet finished with my "core" FF marathon.

In regards to IV itself I don't have much to say. I-III were either the first times I had beaten those games or the first time in a long time, so I had a fairly new experience. IV I had previously beaten less than two year ago when the DS remake came out, and several times before that.

IV did used to be one of my favorite of the FF games. I probably wouldn't say that now. Before, I didn't really appreciate being able to develop character abilities or whatnot, so having everything decided was nice. As I've gotten older I've begun to enjoy being able to customize my characters a bit. I still don't really enjoy it when the characters are completely blank slates, though. In those cases its usually either too easy to give them everything or the system is so complicated and tedious you have to read a novel of instructions and then spend hours in order to accomplish anything.

I also think the plot sort of cheats a little in regards to character death. I don't mind thinking someone has died only to see them return later if its plausible, but this game flat out cheats. Besides the one true death there are three (or four depending on how you count) fake deaths and each one cheats in bringing the person (or people) back.

1) Not really death, but an "incurable" condition. But if someone identified as "the great sage" can't cure it, how can the "elder" do it without any fanfare or anything? Its a cheat.

2) I don't care what you're made of. You can not survive a fall from hundreds of feet in the air PLUS an explosion from a bomb in your hand! There's not even an explanation. He just survives.

3) I'm not even sure why the third one even had to "sacrifice" himself. Its not explained what he was doing or how it would lead to his death and why it couldn't have been prevented. I suppose his survival of this is somewhat believeable since I don't even know what it was that's supposed to kill him. Explosion of the equipment? Some ultimate machine destroying technique that sucks out life energy? Maybe he was just hoping to get away from his abusive wife.

Overall, I still enjoy FFIV. Its up there with the "good" FFs, but its just not my favorite anymore.

[Ginkasa]

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20060221072345/finalfantasy/images/thumb/5/52/Ff5-logo.jpg/242px-Ff5-logo.jpg

Final Fantasy V Wiki Page (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy_V)


Released in Japan for the Super Famicom in 1992. Final Fantasy V was not initially released in NA due to Square deeming it too inaccessible to American gamers. There were plans to localize and release the game as "Final Fantasy Extreme" in order to market it to more experienced gamers who would enjoy the complex Job system. Plans for that release fell through however, and FFV did not see the light in NA (legally anyway) until 1999 when released for the Playstation along with FFVI in the Final Fantasy Anthology collection.

V's story returns to the basic crystal story presented in I and III. Something wicked is draining the light from the four elemental crystals and only the destined Light Warriors can save the day. Unlike I and III, however, V gave names and faces to our Warriors of Light:

- Bartz Klauser: A wandering adventurer. He at first becomes involved in the story due to chance, but his destiny is later revealed to be much less coincidental.

- Lenna Charlotte Tycoon: The princess of Tycoon. The game begins as she heads toward the Wind Shrine out of concern for the safety of her father, King Tycoon.

- Galuf Helm Baldesion: An old man with amnesia. All he remembers when discovered is his name and his destination: the Wind Shrine. His mysterious past is revealed during the game.

- Faris Scherwiz: A pirate who is initially believed to be male, but later reveals herslef as a woman in disguise. She has a mysterious connection to Lenna.

- Krile Mayer Baldesion: Galuf's grandaughter. She replaces Galuf later in the game.

Gameplay elements unique to or introduced in FFV:

- The Job system from III returns, but with some new refinements. Job levels are obtained through Ability Points allowing the player to track job advancement. Players are also now able to share a limited amount of abilities between Jobs creating "Super Jobs" (my term, not the games) that have elements from multiple classes.

- The ATB bar is now visible to the player for the first time allowing them to know exactly whose turn is next.

- The first recurring miniboss: Gilgamesh. He is fought st multiple points within the game Gilgamesh also makes cameo appearances in other, later, FF games in various forms.

Final Fantasy V has received a couple of different official releases in North America:

- On the Playstation as part of the Final Fantasy Anthology collection. This was the first official release of the game in NA. Unfortunately, the dialogue translation was far from perfect (most famously giving Faris a "pirate accent" not present in the Japanese version) keeping most gamers loyal to the fanslation from a few years earlier.

- On the Game Boy Advance as Final Fantasy V Advance. This version improved the translation exponentially, although some critics disliked the addition of multiple "pop culture" jokes added in. This version also added a few new jobs and bonus dungeons similar to other GBA FF releases.

Additionally, there is much made of the fact that FFX was the "first" game to receive a sequel, but this was incorrect. Final Fantasy V was, in the fact, the very first Final Fantasy game to have a story sequel; it was not, however, a video game. Final Fantasy: Legend of the Crystals (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy:_Legend_of_the_Crystals) is a four episode OVA released in 1994 in Japan. The anime is set 200 years after FFV featuring descendants of the original game's characters.

Lastly, Cid Watch!:

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070411222837/finalfantasy/images/6/64/FFV-amano_cid.jpg

Cid Previa is an inventor from the Kingdom of Karnak whose knowledge and inventions have led the Kingdom to prosperity. When Cid discovers his machine are damaging the Crystals he attempts to shut them down, but ends up being imprisoned. He laments is failure untilhis grandson, Mid, cheers him up. Cid and Mid later become instrumental, as always, in helping the party discover, restore, and upgrade the airship.

Cid is once again unplayable, however he continues to play a larger role in the story.


*****

I will be playing the GBA version. This is the last FF that I have never beaten. After this game the only one that I haven't played recently is VIII, so we'll see how long I can keep this marathon going. Perhaps I'll get bored while playing through VII, or perhaps I'll going to distance. Oh, the imaginary suspense.

[BreakABone]

Looks like he got bored while playing. :P

Just came in here to post that Final Fantasy 9 will be available on PSN next Tues for 10 bucks.

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2010/06/10/final-fantasy-ix-hits-psn-store-this-tuesday/

[TheSlyMoogle]

I started it, got like 5 hours in on day 1, and decided to stop. Like, damn, the grinding required for thief run gets all of my hate. Plus it's frustrating.

[Angrist]

So far I've mostly heard good stories about FFIX...

[Ginkasa]

So far I've mostly heard good stories about FFIX...


I think he was referring to FFI. He was going to do a all thief playthrough. I'm really excited about IX, BTW. My copy got stolen a few months back, so I was really hoping they'd release it on the PSN before I got to it.

Anyway, I'm still going with the marathon. There just didn't seem to be much interest in the thread so I didn't bother updating it. I'm now on VII having just beaten Dyne.

[Xantar]

I'm still interested. You skipped right over your impressions of the best game in the series! I am talking about 6, of course. I used to derive some satisfaction out of being the iconoclast who didn't like 7 that much, but I have been informed that my opinion is no longer controversial...

[magus113]

I'm still interested. You skipped right over your impressions of the best game in the series! I am talking about 6, of course. I used to derive some satisfaction out of being the iconoclast who didn't like 7 that much, but I have been informed that my opinion is no longer controversial...

It happens, but I was in the throes of people that also enjoyed 6.

[BreakABone]

Just a random bump to say that I started playing Final Fantasy IV on the DS thanks to some of my Tweeplings and wanted to waste some time until Kirby's Epic Yarn was released.

I'm fairly early in the game, I just got to the castle and the Prince joined my party so yeah.

[Angrist]

A prince? Spoilers! :(


I played some of FFV 10 years ago, but I don't think I'm cut out for the slow pace of FF.

[Ginkasa]

And I've beaten XII! Done! Yep, 7 months since my last post in this thread (where I announced I was on VII) and I've finished the marathon. Not really much a marathon, I guess, since there was a big break, but hey! I beat them all...

What happened was I beat VII pretty quickly after my previous post. VIII went by pretty swiftly as well. IX didn't last long at all. I started on X, but I didn't move very quickly. It hadn't really been that long since I had beaten it last, so it all felt really deja vuish. As I had predicted, my excitement kind of ended after I beat VIII. It was the last game I hadn't really played in a long time.

I was muscling through, though, but then Dragon Quest IX came out. If we're being honest, the DQ series has always been much closer to my gaming heart than FF; its just much less available. Then that got me on a bit of a DQ kick (similar to how FFXIII got me on a FF kick) so I messed around with a couple of those. Then I got some new games and started playing those...

It took a while for me to get back to X. I had left off right before Operation Mi'hen. I picked it back up a little while ago. Pushed through. Started XII and pushed through that. And now I'm done! I thought about doing XIII again since its been over a year, but I've really soured on it since then and I'm not up to going through it again. Plus, I've already got a backlog (who doesn't?) and, icing on the cake, DQVI is getting released for the first time in America on Valentine's Day, so.. No XIII.

I'm going to go ahead and finish the thread off. I'll do the write-ups for the games post V and my impressions over the next few days or so. Maybe a couple tonight. This way I can say I did it "proper" or something.

[Ginkasa]

Was all about to make a write up for VI and realized I never did share my thoughts on V.

Hands down it is much better than III. The AP system is pretty great and its really simple to understand not only how much left until you've mastered a job (or at least levelled it up), but also playing with them and creating your own deal. The story was better than I thought it would be also. Nothing fantastic. Definitely doesn't hold up to the two games its sandwich between, but still enjoyable.

I was surprised at the lack of difficulty, though. I had some trouble here and there, but overall I didn't have too many problems. I possibly over-compensated for the "oh so hard" things I've heard similar to III, but still. Not that bad.

Overall, though, I would still rank V in the middle of the series. It does its job, but the story, while not horrible, is still not the best. The Job system, while improved, still has some issues (trial and error figuring out the jobs; easy to exploit once you do). I'm glad I've beaten it, but I wouldn't really go back to it anytime soon.

[Ginkasa]

http://images.wikia.com/finalfantasy/images/4/49/Ff6-logo.jpg

FFVI Wiki (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy_VI)


Originally released in Japan in 1994 for the Super Famicom, FFVI was released later that year in America as FFIII for the Super Nintendo. This was the last game to be re-numbered due to the skipping from I to IV. This was also the very last core FF game to be initially released on a Nintendo system. FFVI focuses on a rebellion group the Returners who battle the Gestahlian Empire. Emperor Gestahl wished to gain the control of the Espers, magical, powerful beings, and start a second War of the Magi. The Returners later battle against the evil clown Kefka Palazzo who wishes only to become a god himself.

FFVI had 14 (!) playable characters in total, more than any other core FF title even to this day:

- Terra Branford: A half-Esper who begins the game in control of the Empire. She breaks free of their mind control, but has no memory prior to her capture. She spends the game learning how to love herself and her split heritage.

- Locke Cole: A thief (excuse me, treasure hunter) who initially rescues Terra from the Empire. He fights for the Returners, but also searches for an artifact to help return a loved one.

- Edgar Roni Figaro: Twin brother to Sabin and King of Figaro. Edgar is very flirtatious. He appears to ally with the Empire, but secretly fights with the Returners.

- Sabin Rene Figaro: Twin brother to Edgar and a master martial artist. Sabin would have shared Figaro's throne with Edgar, but he chose his freedom from the throne and trained in martial arts instead.

- Shadow: A heartless man who would slit his momma's throat for a nickel. Shadow is a mercenary for hire with a mysterious past he only thinks about in his dreams...

- Cyan Garamonde: A noble samurai from the kingdom of Doma, Cyan swore revenge against the Empire for poisoning his kingdom, including his wife and child.

- Gau: A feral child who grew up on the Veldt, Gau is a master at mimicking beasts' attacks.

- Celes Chere: A former general of the Empire, she became disillusioned with the empire and was set for execution before being rescued by Locke.

- Setzer Gabbiani: A vain and materialistic man, Setzer lives for adventure. He initially only joins the Returners because the Empire is bad for his business.

- Mog: Mog is a moogle who has the rare ability to communicate with humans.

- Strago Magus: An elderly mage from Thamas, Strago is very protective of his granddaughter, Relm.

- Relm Arrowny: Strago's granddaughter and a little girl. Relm can create living things with paint and magic.

- Gogo: A strange creature, Gogo is a mimic who... mimics things. S/he doesn't even have a defined gender.

- Umaro: A yeti who has been befriend by Mog.

Gameplay elements unique or introduced in FFVI:

- For the first time you could decide who was in your party. While previous game had multiple characters, the story dictated who were fighting with at any given moment. FFVI, except for a few story sequences, allowed you to choose from any of the available characters for some or all of the slots in your group.

- Several of the above characters didn't have to recruited at all. Most of them could be forgotten about past a certain point in the game. This is the first time in the series there have been "optional" characters, the only other game being VII.

- The Esper system introduced in VI is similar to the Job system in V. Espers, or summons, can be equipped on a character. When this is done, that character learns any spells attached to that Esper via AP points earned at various rates depending on the spell. Characters will also earn various stat boosts upon levelling up depending on the Esper equipped.

- Characters now have abilities specific and unique to them such as Edgar's ability to use Tools or Shadow's ability to throw things.

- Desperation Attacks were introduced. When a character has low HP they have a slight chance, when attacking, to use a rare super attack specific to them. This concept would be expanded in later games. I've never actually had this happen to me; true story.

FFVI has seen a couple of releases over the years:

- As Final Fantasy III for the Super Nintendo.
- As Final Fantasy VI as part of the Final Fantasy Anthology Collection along with FFV. This version added FMV sequences to the beginning and ending of the game.
- On the GBA with a new translation along with a new bonus dungeon and few new Espers.

Interesting note, although the FF games would not feature voice-acting until FFX, FFVI is the first FF game to give a character a voice. While it is not a actual recorded voice, FFVI is the first game to use a sound to represent a character's voice (in this case, a certain infamous laugh).

And, finally, Cid Watch:

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100705052451/finalfantasy/images/thumb/9/9f/64px-Cid_%28Final_Fantasy_VI%29.jpg/257px-64px-Cid_%28Final_Fantasy_VI%29.jpg

Cid Del Norte Marquez for the first time had nothing really to do with the invention of the airship or the party obtaining an airship (that role now going to Setzer). Indeed, Cid is at first an ally to the Empire! He is the inventor of the technology that can turn Espers into magicite. When he learns of the evil role of his technology he assists the Returners. He also raised Celes as his own daughter.

[Ginkasa]

Final Fantasy VI is one of my very favorite FFs and one of my favorite games in general, but in some ways my feelings are a little mixed. Let me expand.

The World of Balance is nothing short of a masterpiece. The music, the characters, the tone, the story, the gameplay. All of it just really comes together to create something special. I actually played FFVI pretty late. I played a ROM briefly after I played VII, but it wasn't until it was re-released on the PSX that I played it through. Even playing the ROM, though, it felt really familiar and timeless. I don't know, there's just something about it.

If I were to pick some grievances they would be thus:

1) "Generic" character moments. On those occasions where you can any character with you, so the game chooses to just have generic dialogue that could be given to any character. It might have been system limitation, but I would have liked more character specific dialogue that changed depending on the characters chosen.

2) Some of the character back history moments felt out of place. They were good on their own, they just didn't mesh well with the rest of the story in terms of pacing and placement. They just happen, I guess. It feels odd sometimes.

Those are nitpicks those. Small complaints. Otherwise, the World of Balance is a masterpiece.

The World of Ruin, though, doesn't exactly live up to its name, but isn't quite as good. I enjoy the vignettes each village/character brings and its fun to get some actual non-linearity to an FF game. However, being able to choose who you recruit and bring along means you've got those generic character moments all the time. Once you get past a character's moment to shine you could almost forget their place in the story, you know? Celes starts out as the leader in the WoR, but by the time we get to Kefka's palace I've almost forgotten she was there (as an example).

It also really kills the pacing. I just don't feel the sense of urgency or anything like I did in the WoB. Like I said, the individual moments are good. It was just, by the the time I reach Kefka it feels like just an item on my list. Without a real "Okay let's do this scene" it kind of falls flat. Especially since you can come and go as please, really, with no consequence.

But really, its still a great game. I just think its a little top heavy with pure awesome, if that makes sense.

Another thing I find interesting is the lack of a real definitive "main character." Pretty much every FF game after IV (including III's remake) has one except for this game. Sure, you start with Terra and she's the traditional choice, but you don't really stay focused on her for that long. Soon you're jumping all over the place. Then she's not even accessible for a period of time. You could say Terra's the main character because the story, if not the gameplay, focuses a lot on her, but all bets are off once the WoR hits. Celes fits the role of a main character more there than anyone else. She's there from the beginning and starts to gather everyone up for the assault on Kefka's tower. Sure, she doesn't specifically do anything once you can switch her out, but its possible everyone would have stayed put if Celes had killed herself or just stayed on the island or something. Terra isn't even required to be recruited in the WoR. Her specific role ends with the WoB.

Although, really, most of the characters could be the "main" character if the Square had chosen to focus on them. This is cool, because it really shows how many of them had been fleshed out pretty well.

Anyway, that's really all I have to say on VI.

[Angrist]

And, finally, Cid Watch:

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100705052451/finalfantasy/images/thumb/9/9f/64px-Cid_%28Final_Fantasy_VI%29.jpg/257px-64px-Cid_%28Final_Fantasy_VI%29.jpg
Woah, he really looks like these villains in Fire Emblem Path of Radiance & Radiant Dawn:
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100424134524/villains/images/thumb/e/ef/Numida2.png/180px-Numida2.png
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/fireemblem/images/thumb/c/cf/Ferd-oliver.jpg/250px-Ferd-oliver.jpg

[magus113]

Bumpity bumpity bump!

My (not so) regular triumphant return to GT is here!

I've been in the FF mood recently.

I never did finish my playthrough of FF2, but I still have the save. It's for the PSP remake version so it's technically easier, but I don't think I can fault myself too much. My characters can only take so many beatings to the head to get their HP up. Last I checked I was outside of Mysidia and I have both of the masks. Where the story progresses to afterwards is beyond me.

I had been reading a great Final Fantasy retrospective article from socksmakepeoplesexy.net (http://socksmakepeoplesexy.net/index.php?a=patff) and it went over all (or most I should say) of the FF games all the way up to XIII. It also included the (meh) Mystic Quest for SNES and the fantastic Final Fantasy Tactics for the Playstation (not the War of the Lions remake, he's got an issue with the retranslation, and I can't say I blame him, they went kinda exaggerated with some of the new dialogue, although it is easier to understand this time around). He had huge issues with the series starting from VIII and it's a slow fall down, and then it's a quick thud for him once X-2 shows it's face.

My mood for FF was rekindled when I remembered that I purchased Final Fantasy XIII, played it for about an hour and put it back to play something else and never looked back. So I decided I was gonna go balls in and play it for hours and hours at a time. I have the time over the summer because I'm not working in the evenings and I knew that in the hour that I played I was getting nothing of what the battle system was truly like, or the character advancement either, which for me didn't start happening until around the two and a half hour mark or so.

I think considering that XIII's director was very highly involved in X-2, XIII doesn't leave as bad of a taste in my mouth. I mean, the story could have had some pretty interesting potential if Gran Pulse were more involved (or at least appear to be more involved; I'm only 15 hours in so I haven't been there yet) since there's an interesting conflict between Cocoon and Pulse. I have a hard time liking any of the characters that aren't Sazh. I really do. Well, maybe Fang. I saw way too many resemblances to the beginning of Final Fantasy VII in the beginning of the game. Lightning isn't very likable because she's got the Squall attitude towards everyone and it all seems unfounded, the situation with Serah not withstanding. Hope is a whiner, Vanille is on the outskirts of lolitown with a stupid accent, and Snow is way too involved in a romance plot that I don't really enjoy watching when the flashbacks come around, or when he goes on and on about Serah.

I do find the battle system to be entertaining, even if it's more automated and a little detached compared to the other previous games. What I dislike is the game completely gets rid of resource management with the healing of all your characters after each battle, and the fact that the enemies don't drop gil, and sometimes drop components. The weapon customization is weak, and I'm hard pressed to waste time upgrading weapons or accessories and spending gil on accessories or components as well.

Any gripes aside, I still find myself firing the game up to see what happens next in the extremely linear game. That's how it feels to me. It's almost even more restrictive than X, and X you could even backtrack. Maybe I haven't spent enough time, but I'm past the 15 hour mark, so I would think that takes too long.

My FF mood has also been kicked in thanks to FFIV, but I'll get into that in my next post. This has been a wall of text brought to you by magus113.

[magus113]

Final Fantasy IV: The Complete Collection for PSP.

It's yet another Final Fantasy IV remake for yet another console. It's been remade...four times now? Let's see:

SNES Original (1991)
Playstation as part of the Final Fantasy Chronicles along with Chrono Trigger (2001)
Wonderswan Color in Japan (2002)
Game Boy Advance with new script and some added content (2005)
SNES Original on the Virtual Console (2010)
PSP as the Complete Collection with FFIV: Interlude and remade FFIV: The After Years (2011)

...that's a lot of remakes. To be fair we never saw the WSC version here in America, but it's still another remake. I wonder why though? The game is good, that's not the problem. It's just not great. I can understand how it had so much appeal back in 1991 considering what the Final Fantasy games were coming from on the NES, but VI was a much better game (I should know, having completed it last year, finally). Even so, I do have somewhat of a soft spot for this game, even though I've never finished it, or tried playing it as much as I have other Final Fantasy games in the past.

I went and I spent the money for the Complete Collection on the PSP not just for the fact that there's essentially two full Final Fantasy games for the price of 23.99 (when I bought it), but I think it was a nice way to update the game but still keep it true to the original. I liked the DS remake, don't get me wrong. I have it. It just feels different. It doesn't have the same kind of goofy aesthetic that the 2D versions of the game have, like the character sprites jumping around, although the voice work was great, and it didn't detract from the overall game since it stayed true to the source material and it wasn't done for every single cutscene. It made the pacing nice for a portable outing.

It's just fun for me I guess to play through the game in 2D with updated, higher definition sprites and backgrounds, but still being able to have the option of listening to the old SNES music as opposed to the new (and sometimes nicer) arranged version of the BGM.

Sometimes I'm just more of a purist I guess. Supposedly they did make the first half of the game easier, which I might have to call BS on. I'm about to go through the Lodestone Cavern to get the Earth crystal in Troia and I'm getting my ass handed to me by the battles in the area. Go go Gadget grindfest.

[TheSlyMoogle]

Final Fantasy 4 was all about some kind of massive grind in pretty much every area.

[magus113]

Final Fantasy 4 was all about some kind of massive grind in pretty much every area.

I can def. agree with this. Well, maybe not so much with the FF2 SNES release. I think the NA one was really dumbed down in difficulty and they advertised the future remakes as having a newer, raised difficulty. I believe the DS remake is the most difficult of all of them, since the PSP one was made a little easier for the first half, or so I heard.

[magus113]

So I finished the Tower of Zot and opened up the way to the Underworld.

The grind to pass through the Tower of Zot was decent enough but I can't help but feel like getting to the fight with the Magus Sisters and Barbariccia was more difficult than the actual fights with the Magus Sisters and Barbariccia. Strange.

I pulled a four to five hour session with FFXIII and I'm past the 20 hour mark. And NOW is when they decide to let me switch members of my team out. What the hell?

[magus113]

Is it just me or does the difficulty for FF13 jump up a lot when you get to Gran Pulse?

[Ginkasa]

Sort of. I don't think the difficulty over all increases. I think they just throw a whole bunch of different monsters into that area. Some of them are too powerful for you to defeat or defeat easily, so you have to avoid them until you're stronger. I don't think the game overall gets more difficult, though if that makes sense.

[magus113]

Sort of. I don't think the difficulty over all increases. I think they just throw a whole bunch of different monsters into that area. Some of them are too powerful for you to defeat or defeat easily, so you have to avoid them until you're stronger. I don't think the game overall gets more difficult, though if that makes sense.

No it does make sense. I'm in the Tower of Babil now, and it seems like a much easier climb than the Tower of Zot was.

I love this game.

[Ginkasa]

No it does make sense. I'm in the Tower of Babil now, and it seems like a much easier climb than the Tower of Zot was.

I love this game.



Are we talking about IV or XIII...?

[magus113]

Are we talking about IV or XIII...?

Talking about IV. I'm kinda between both. I take IV with me on the go cause I have the Complete Collection for PSP.

I spent idk how long in XIII backtracking because I'm on Gran Pulse and I found out I was missing some stuff before I decided to try and barrel through an area I probably shouldn't have been. It's still entertaining though, I'll give it that, even if it's not my favorite by far.

[TheSlyMoogle]

I can def. agree with this. Well, maybe not so much with the FF2 SNES release. I think the NA one was really dumbed down in difficulty and they advertised the future remakes as having a newer, raised difficulty. I believe the DS remake is the most difficult of all of them, since the PSP one was made a little easier for the first half, or so I heard.

Actually the DS remake is fairly simple compared to other versions. Perhaps the PSP remake is the same, but basically when anyone dies in the remake you can acquire their special skills if you do it right. There's a whole FAQ on it, but basically you can equip skills like Twin Magic, for example, on someone who isn't the twins.

If you do it right you can gather the entire set of character special skills in a playthrough (Well almost). It really wasn't that hard to figure out that if you put a skill on a character you get it back when they die + their skill.

Oh... I guess massive spoilers, everyone dies in FF4. EVERYONE.

[magus113]

Actually the DS remake is fairly simple compared to other versions. Perhaps the PSP remake is the same, but basically when anyone dies in the remake you can acquire their special skills if you do it right. There's a whole FAQ on it, but basically you can equip skills like Twin Magic, for example, on someone who isn't the twins.

If you do it right you can gather the entire set of character special skills in a playthrough (Well almost). It really wasn't that hard to figure out that if you put a skill on a character you get it back when they die + their skill.

Oh... I guess massive spoilers, everyone dies in FF4. EVERYONE.

Yeah, and then the one guy who's right next to a damn BOMB WHEN IT EXPLODES is found in an infirmary bed.

A bomb.

When it exploded.

[TheSlyMoogle]

Yeah, and then the one guy who's right next to a damn BOMB WHEN IT EXPLODES is found in an infirmary bed.

A bomb.

When it exploded.

You can survive anything when you're a spoony bard.

[magus113]

You can survive anything when you're a spoony bard.

Edward was just a pussy and fell off a boat. He ended up in some town laying in bed.

Cid was the one that blew the bomb up to seal the Underworld. Maybe his epic beard helped him stay alive.

[TheSlyMoogle]

.Edward was just a pussy and fell off a boat. He ended up in some town laying in bed.

Cid was the one that blew the bomb up to seal the Underworld. Maybe his epic beard helped him stay alive.

Oh I thought he was like next to a bomb or something. It's been a while.

[magus113]

So I'm in the final area (I think) of FFIV. The enemies are so annoying that right it's literally just me walking around and running away from everything because it's more worthwhile for my resources to do so. I think I pretty much did everything there was to do.

Also if I'm forced to battle I'm just spamming Bahamut and Curaja. It's a fun time.

[magus113]

So I got to Zeromus.

Turns out I'm not ready. At all.

[magus113]

Just finished Final Fantasy IV. Zeromus is ridiculous. I'm glad I finally finished it after so many years of trying to finally finish it. Now there's just the "Interlude" thing and The After Years to fire through. I'm going in blind with both of these games so I can only imagine how this is gonna go.

I still have yet to do some more work with XIII but i'll be showing that some love since I got OoT and the man FFIV game out of the way.

[magus113]

I realize I'm the only one posting in here but I DON'T CARE.

In the two hours I've put in to FFIV Interlude, it's only been pretty much this:

Something's wrong here!
I guess we have to go, don't we?
Yes, let's go!
*walk to airship and talk to airship captain*
Cecil! Ready to go? *Yes*
Watch airship slowly fly to destination.
Do whatever you're supposed to do at this area, return to airship. Rinse, repeat.

Definitely feels tacked on, and I read somewhere that Interlude takes 15 hours to complete. Really?

[thatmariolover]

I'm currently replaying FF3 (Super Nintendo version) on my phone.

Also recently played through Mystic Quest, but that hardly counts as Final Fantasy.

[Angrist]

I once started FFV (random choice) on an emulator. I enjoyed it but the game got stuck in a glitch (somwhere on foggy ships, can that be right?).
I saw my brother play several FFs, he mostly enjoyed X (because that's his first one?)
I own FF:CC but I've never played it. I might have tried the intro, but then it didn't pull me in.

So there's my experience with FF.
(Of course not counting having seen the [decent] movie.)

[magus113]

Crystal Chronicles was an odd beast. I wanted to get into it but it felt bland. Then I found out it's supposed to primarily be a multiplayer game using the GBA link cables and it made more sense.

The guy that made Crystal Chronicles and the SaGa games however actually acknowledged that none of the games he's made are actually good. I can find the interview and quote it right now as a matter of fact.

http://www.largeprimenumbers.com/article.php?sid=saga

So suffice it to say that I hold in my heart the deepest respect for Akitoshi Kawazu when I say that his games all, historically, suck long and hard. Kawazu himself, now seventeen years older and more mature than the man who made Final Fantasy II a bloody mess in the name of experimentation, told Famitsu's Hirokazu Hamamura in an interview back in April, "Yeah, I'm aware that the games I've made have never been, you know . . . good." I read this sentence in a 7-Eleven in Minami-Senju, and my knees buckled. Wow. Wow, I thought. The man's last game was Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles, an utter mess that, at first glance, seems to mean well, though in the end, it doesn't.

Well it wasn't an interview, but more of a review of Romancing SaGa, which (hey! Guess what?) sucked too.

[Bond]

I'm home for a few days (as in 4-5), and decided to try and revisit FFXIII with the expectation that it is not a typical FF game. I think my nostalgia for VII-IX got in the way of my enjoyment of my first abbreviated play through of XIII.

[TheSlyMoogle]

I'm home for a few days (as in 4-5), and decided to try and revisit FFXIII with the expectation that it is not a typical FF game. I think my nostalgia for VII-IX got in the way of my enjoyment of my first abbreviated play through of XIII.

Just finish it already, it's linear as shit.

[Vampyr]

Crystal Chronicles was an odd beast. I wanted to get into it but it felt bland. Then I found out it's supposed to primarily be a multiplayer game using the GBA link cables and it made more sense.

The guy that made Crystal Chronicles and the SaGa games however actually acknowledged that none of the games he's made are actually good. I can find the interview and quote it right now as a matter of fact.

http://www.largeprimenumbers.com/article.php?sid=saga



Well it wasn't an interview, but more of a review of Romancing SaGa, which (hey! Guess what?) sucked too.

My brother and I had a really good time with Crystal Chronicles. Spent a bunch of time grinding for artifacts.

[magus113]

My brother and I had a really good time with Crystal Chronicles. Spent a bunch of time grinding for artifacts.

But you had someone else to play with, that's the thing. I never really did. I could try something however. We're gonna do an epic Four Swords Adventures party. Here's how it works.

Four smaller TVs, each with a GameCube+Game Boy Player add-on and a GBA to GCN link cable, all connected to a Wii's controller ports (or GameCube it doesn't matter) that's "hosting" the Four Swords Adventures game. Add booze and food and you've got yourself a party.

It could be done for Crystal Chronicles and Pac-Man Vs. too so that could be something else to throw out if Zelda gets boring or something (hah!)

[magus113]

I'm home for a few days (as in 4-5), and decided to try and revisit FFXIII with the expectation that it is not a typical FF game. I think my nostalgia for VII-IX got in the way of my enjoyment of my first abbreviated play through of XIII.

I went in expecting that they were gonna chew the fat, and I got over a lot of the things that people were complaining about because even if it is kinda linear it actually is still pretty fun.

[Vampyr]

I started my FFXIII game back up as well. I am on Chapter 11, in the Maw of the Abyss, where I just spent a few hours grinding.

[magus113]

I started my FFXIII game back up as well. I am on Chapter 11, in the Maw of the Abyss, where I just spent a few hours grinding.

I'm getting a replacement PS3 today, so hopefully I can just pop in my old hard drive. I don't know if I'll have the drive to go through those 30+ hours I put into the game again.

[Bond]

I started my FFXIII game back up as well. I am on Chapter 11, in the Maw of the Abyss, where I just spent a few hours grinding.
I'm trying to speedily get there (that's mission 7, correct?). Currently somewhere in Chapter 7 I believe.

[magus113]

Well I have to wipe my hard drive so that's 32+ hours of my life I'm never gonna get back. I hate my life.

[Bond]

Well I have to wipe my hard drive so that's 32+ hours of my life I'm never gonna get back. I hate my life.
Quick! Play around 10 hours and we'll be in roughly the same spot. ;)

[Typhoid]

Personally I loved FFXIII. I sort of wish I hadn't sold it, because I never realized the potential in re-playability.

I never had a problem getting into the game, personally. It was one of the best FF experiences I had, because I didn't let the nostalgia get in the way. I took it for what it was - a linear storytelling, where you play everything inbetween the dialogue.

Just like I enjoyed the MK storyline where all you do is fight between dialogue. Like an interactive movie. I thought it (FFXIII) was really well-done when I played it. Plus it's got some decently challenging boss battles (Unless you're one of those people who don't like challenges, and immediately look up the best character combinations so you can plow through the game without making your own choices).


Well I have to wipe my hard drive so that's 32+ hours of my life I'm never gonna get back. I hate my life.

Why did you have to wipe it? Couldn't you just copy your data to an external HD? Or were all of your files corrupted?

[Bond]

I can't get past the Midnight Reaper. This is seriously embarrassing.

[Bond]

I just 0 starred Midnight Reaper. Good thing no one will ever know.


Oh wait...

[Vampyr]

Personally I loved FFXIII. I sort of wish I hadn't sold it, because I never realized the potential in re-playability.

I never had a problem getting into the game, personally. It was one of the best FF experiences I had, because I didn't let the nostalgia get in the way. I took it for what it was - a linear storytelling, where you play everything inbetween the dialogue.

Just like I enjoyed the MK storyline where all you do is fight between dialogue. Like an interactive movie. I thought it (FFXIII) was really well-done when I played it. Plus it's got some decently challenging boss battles (Unless you're one of those people who don't like challenges, and immediately look up the best character combinations so you can plow through the game without making your own choices).




Why did you have to wipe it? Couldn't you just copy your data to an external HD? Or were all of your files corrupted?

Vanille almost ruins the game for me, but other than that I like it.

[magus113]

Why did you have to wipe it? Couldn't you just copy your data to an external HD? Or were all of your files corrupted?

I couldn't start up my old PS3 to do the data backup thing, so when I put in my old hard drive I couldn't use it until I wiped it because Sony is a piece of shit sometimes.

[Bond]

I'm up to Chapter 10 now. I originally stopped at Chapter 11 during the "open world" part. This will be interesting...

[Typhoid]

Vanille almost ruins the game for me, but other than that I like it.

Enh. I never found it a problem. She just sounded like a really bubbly Australian chick to me.

[magus113]

I started up a new game after the friends left. It should be noted that I'm skipping all the cutscenes that I've already seen, which will be all the way up to just before they get to Oerba in Chapter 11.

It should also be noted that I'm on Chapter 4 already after only playing for just under 3 hours. I don't know what that says about the game because I remember it taking a bit longer than that to be able to get to where I am now. At least a few days.

[Angrist]

Skipping the cutscenes in a Final Fantasy game, isn't that like skipping the meat at a barbecue??

[Typhoid]

I'd say skipping the cutscenes in FFXIII is almost exactly the same as skipping the cutscenes in the MGS game for the PS3.

It's like renting a movie to just watch the loading screen and the ending credits.

[Bond]

Any tips on what accessories are the best to upgrade?

[magus113]

I'd say skipping the cutscenes in FFXIII is almost exactly the same as skipping the cutscenes in the MGS game for the PS3.

It's like renting a movie to just watch the loading screen and the ending credits.

I know it sounds bad the way I'm gonna say it but I just want to be done with the game. I like it! I really do, it's just that I spent 30+ hours on it only to have my PS3 bork and then I'd have to sit through everything all over again. The datalog does a good job of providing everything that's going on with the plot, which isn't that hard to remember, and like I said, I'm only gonna do it up to chapter 11 since that's where I was before I lost my stuff.

At least the battles are still enjoyable for me since it doesn't feel like a chore for me to run around and fight people. If that were the case and the cutscenes couldn't be skipped...I honestly don't know if I would have been willing to jump right in again and get back to where I was.

I do see your point though. Every time I play through an MGS game I don't skip the cutscenes because for one it's not as easy to catch your bearings afterwards and find out what you need to do (although the CODEC does assist with that), but they're also very fun to watch too.

That being said, I got up to chapter 8, right in the beginning in Nautilus.

[Typhoid]

I feel for ya.
I wouldn't replay it if my system crapped out on me halfway through, either. I have that problem if I lose a saved game or something I just lose all motivation to try again.

I need to expand my PS3 friends, if you would like to be my friend, add me.

SmashAwesome

I like friends.
I need friends.
God, I'm so lonely.

[magus113]

I feel for ya.
I wouldn't replay it if my system crapped out on me halfway through, either. I have that problem if I lose a saved game or something I just lose all motivation to try again.

I need to expand my PS3 friends, if you would like to be my friend, add me.

SmashAwesome

I like friends.
I need friends.
God, I'm so lonely.

Will be doing so now, I'm gonna see how far I get into chapter eight before I inevitably pass out. I put some stuff on Netflix and fire through the game while I do it, so that helps with the repeating. Keep a lookout for scarz0ftime, but I'll let you know it's me in the message

[magus113]

I feel for ya.
I wouldn't replay it if my system crapped out on me halfway through, either.

Also, halfway? D: I was on Gran Pulse and almost got to Oerba! Damn it!

[magus113]

I just 0 starred Midnight Reaper. Good thing no one will ever know.


Oh wait...

Don't feel bad! I got past Midlight Reaper with 0 stars...both times I've done it.

[Bond]

Don't feel bad! I got past Midlight Reaper with 0 stars...both times I've done it.
He's a tough one at that point in the game for some reason.

I've made it to mission 11 now. Not too sure how many more of these I can take...

[magus113]

He's a tough one at that point in the game for some reason.

I've made it to mission 11 now. Not too sure how many more of these I can take...

You're not really supposed to stay around there doing a lot of those until later. I think you've done enough that you can progress on to Oerba. You've just gotta make sure you know which battles to pick while you're at the Archylte Steppe. There's one to progress that you can't avoid but it's one of those three way battle things with a behemoth.

[Vampyr]

The missions, other than an unavoidable few, are all side quests that aren't required to finish the story. I would recommend leaving them until after you've beaten the game, they'll be a lot easier by then too.

I only did two missions in the Steppes area before moving on. I just made it to Oerba, and I'm calling it a night.

[Bond]

Phew - that's good to know. How far along the Crystarium is everyone?

[Vampyr]

Having just made it to Oerba, which I believe is the last area of Chapter 11, I've reached the level 4 role crystal for all three of my three main character's (Lightning, Fang, Hope) primary roles. Also for each of those characters I have picked up every "main" crystal (not counting the branches), as well as all of their ability/accessory/ATB crystals. All I have remaining on the pure stat buff outliers, which I should have finished by the end of Chapter 11, I only have a few more left on each character.

As for Sazh, Vanille, and Snow, I'm just hording CP. Since I never use them I'm not spending it, and I intend to go crazy and make them out in 1 role at the end of the game. So Sazh will be a super synergist, Vanille will be a super medic, and Snow will be a super sentinel.

After you get out of the Steppes there is an awesome farming area in the "Maw of the Abyss" area. There's a hallway with a juggernaut at one end, and a box phalanx at the other. If you run back and forth killing everything in between (but not including those two things) you can rack up a ton of CP.

[magus113]

Having just made it to Oerba, which I believe is the last area of Chapter 11, I've reached the level 4 role crystal for all three of my three main character's (Lightning, Fang, Hope) primary roles. Also for each of those characters I have picked up every "main" crystal (not counting the branches), as well as all of their ability/accessory/ATB crystals. All I have remaining on the pure stat buff outliers, which I should have finished by the end of Chapter 11, I only have a few more left on each character.

As for Sazh, Vanille, and Snow, I'm just hording CP. Since I never use them I'm not spending it, and I intend to go crazy and make them out in 1 role at the end of the game. So Sazh will be a super synergist, Vanille will be a super medic, and Snow will be a super sentinel.

After you get out of the Steppes there is an awesome farming area in the "Maw of the Abyss" area. There's a hallway with a juggernaut at one end, and a box phalanx at the other. If you run back and forth killing everything in between (but not including those two things) you can rack up a ton of CP.

I got a guide and it said that it's something like 22,000 CP in five minutes or so back and forth, which is awesome because that's when everything gets retardedly expensive in the Crystarium.

[Bond]

That area is amazingly epic. I'm going to try and max out the main roles on the crystarium before advancing.

[magus113]

I wonder if there's ever anything that would compel me to get the platinum trophy in this game. The amount of grinding alone is a huge deterrent alone, even if you get the Growth Egg after the 55th Cieth stone mission.

I'd have to hope I can get used to listening to this a lot:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMEe9pAhS3U&feature=player_detailpage

What is with YouTube embeds not working? D:

[Bond]

I made it to Chapter 12: Eden Under Siege today. I'm going to attempt to max out the main roles again before advancing. I'm leaving for NY tomorrow morning though, so it will have to wait for after.

Any advice on what accessories are worth starring?

[magus113]

Barthandelus is really chapping my ass this second time around. I really want to know what in the hell I did differently. This is supremely frustrating.

[magus113]

Took care of that about an hour ago, only to get destroyed by Bongo Bongo in Master Quest.

Stupid double damage. I've had enough of bosses today. I'm off to bed.

[Vampyr]

I made it to Chapter 12: Eden Under Siege today. I'm going to attempt to max out the main roles again before advancing. I'm leaving for NY tomorrow morning though, so it will have to wait for after.

Any advice on what accessories are worth starring?

Who is your main party?

I bought some Warrior wristbands and sorcerer's marks from the B&W Outfitters shop (I think I spelled all that stuff correctly).

I have two of the sorcerer's on Hope, and three Warrior's on Fang. Lightning has 1 sorcrer, 1 warrior, and 1 whistlewind scarf. She also wields the axis blade, which combined with the whistlewind scarf synthesizes an ATB recharge ability.

[magus113]

I think my issue with Barthandelus was I didn't have a good party, oddly enough, since I don't think it's the members so much as that paradigms that matter. I think I'm sticking with Lightning, Vanille, and Snow.

[magus113]

Here we go, Cid Raines, part 2.

I realize I keep posting a lot.

Don't care! Cid Raines is probably gonna take me a while. Took me a few tries the first time.

[magus113]

Only took me two tries this time! As opposed to like the 10+ the first time I tried fighting him. Hooray! Three stars, I'll take it! It was a bit tough.

[Bond]

Who is your main party?

I bought some Warrior wristbands and sorcerer's marks from the B&W Outfitters shop (I think I spelled all that stuff correctly).

I have two of the sorcerer's on Hope, and three Warrior's on Fang. Lightning has 1 sorcrer, 1 warrior, and 1 whistlewind scarf. She also wields the axis blade, which combined with the whistlewind scarf synthesizes an ATB recharge ability.
I've been using Lightning, Fang, and Vanille.

I've heard Spring Shoes is quite effective with the auto-haste feature?

[Vampyr]

I've been using Lightning, Fang, and Vanille.

I've heard Spring Shoes is quite effective with the auto-haste feature?

I'm not sure, but I don't have any idea how you can put up with Vanille's constant constipation noises during battle. :\

[magus113]

I'm not sure, but I don't have any idea how you can put up with Vanille's constant constipation noises during battle. :\

I always found her to be more....useful than Hope as far as stats go. Don't quote me on that too much though, I'm starting to use him more now and he's a pretty awesome medic with the right stuff equipped.

[Vampyr]

Vanille has more balanced stats, but Hope has the highest magic stat in the game, which makes him an awesome Medic/Ravager/Synergist.

Vanille also doesn't get the AoE -aga spells.

[magus113]

Vanille has more balanced stats, but Hope has the highest magic stat in the game, which makes him an awesome Medic/Ravager/Synergist.

Vanille also doesn't get the AoE -aga spells.

Well that was the mistake I was making the first time I was going through. I also learned to love the Delta Attack and Solidarity paradigms a lot more. Before it was more Relentless Assault or Diversity and then quick switches to Combat Clinic.

I read somewhere that Fang actually turns out to be a lot better at being a Commando than she does a Sentinel, which is interesting. She does well enough for me, but I know Snow is the best one. I think he can get so OP as a Sentinel to the point where he can only take like 1 damage for any move? Something ridiculous like that.

[Vampyr]

Snow is the best sentinel, his HP becomes ridiculous.

Fang has a crazy strength stat though which, as you said, helps her be a great commando as well which I think makes her a better fit for a well rounded party. You can use Delta Attack to work up the stagger gauge to about 40% - 50%, then switch to Mystic Tower (Ravager Sentinel Ravager) to stagger. Flip to Relentless Assault to work up to about 500% damage (on the bigger guys), then flip to Commando Commando Ravager to do some crazy damage.

So yeah, Snow can be a great tank, but having someone who is a good commando is also important in a lot of fights so that's why I opted for Fang over him. Lightning is there because she's just good at everything, though perhaps not great. She's a good Ravager, a good Commando, and a good Medic.

[magus113]

Snow is the best sentinel, his HP becomes ridiculous.

Fang has a crazy strength stat though which, as you said, helps her be a great commando as well which I think makes her a better fit for a well rounded party. You can use Delta Attack to work up the stagger gauge to about 40% - 50%, then switch to Mystic Tower (Ravager Sentinel Ravager) to stagger. Flip to Relentless Assault to work up to about 500% damage (on the bigger guys), then flip to Commando Commando Ravager to do some crazy damage.

So yeah, Snow can be a great tank, but having someone who is a good commando is also important in a lot of fights so that's why I opted for Fang over him. Lightning is there because she's just good at everything, though perhaps not great. She's a good Ravager, a good Commando, and a good Medic.

I will be taking this into account for the future. Yay new paradigm decks!

[Bond]

Any updates? I'm going to start playing again Monday night.

[Vampyr]

Last night I made it back to Cacoon and I'm moving through Eden.

And wow, the game just starts throwing crazy enemies at you at this point. Behemoth Kings everywhere. I'm just after the part where you fight the Proudclad.

The cut scene after arriving back on Cacoon is one of the best I've ever seen in a game. Very cool.

[magus113]

I was on a slight vacation this weekend so no playtime for me. I'm moving through Maw of the Abyss now though.

I think what I'm gonna keep doing is farming CP until everyone gets to their level four role crystals for their three "main" jobs. The main crystals too, not any of the outlying ones unless they lead to abilities or additional accesories.

[Vampyr]

Right now I'm basically just running around Siren Park grinding for CP. Spheres have gotten ridiculously expensive, and the enemies in the area after Siren Park (Leviathan Plaza), are ridiculously difficult.

Just going to grind until I have all the available spheres.

[magus113]

I was able to get all the spheres filled out for each of the three "main" roles for all my characters so any CP I'm getting is just sitting there until I get to Stage 9 of the Crystarium, which I'm assuming is once you get to chapter 12? Either way I actually stopped playing right at the point where I was before I lost my save thanks to my PS3 dying. So hooray for that! I have a doctor's appointment in an hour and I'll probably just come back home and advance the plot some more as soon as I'm done there.

[Vampyr]

Yeah, you get a Crystarium expansion right at the end of Chapter 11.

[magus113]

Officially done with chapter 11! That was an interesting boss fight, got one star only, but I passed it and I'm happy, especially considering I got a decent length along the way of the expanded crystarium with everyone.

Vamp, I read that the last stage of the Crystarium doesn't open up until you beat the game, is that right?

[Vampyr]

No idea, I've never beaten the game. :)

That Barthandelus fight was pretty crazy. I tried it once and spent over 20 minutes trying to beat him, only getting him down to about 1/3 health. Then he cast death on lightning so I switched to relentless assault in a desperate attempt to beat him, and just got killed.

Second time around I switched up my paradigms - I used Smart Bomb to afflict him and buff me, delta attack to stagger, relentless assault to work his stagger meter up to 500%, then aggression until the meter ran out.

Ended up getting 5 stars the second time around.

[Typhoid]

Vamp, I read that the last stage of the Crystarium doesn't open up until you beat the game, is that right?

Yep.


That Barthandelus fight was pretty crazy.

Agreed. That was by far one of the most epic boss fights I've ever had in any game. The scale of it felt awesome (is in creating awe, not 'thrilling').

[magus113]

I thought it was pretty action packed for a game where the battle consists of you doing button presses every so often. I was getting into it, humming the melodies of the music, hopping around a little in my chair on the edge of my seat and stuff.

I liked it!

[magus113]

I'm in Siren Park right now, I did the CP grinding dance back in Maw of the Abyss in that area where the Juggernaut was. I had a ridiculous amount of CP saved up after I fought Barthandelus so now it's only a matter of me getting all those little loose spheres that are hanging around on each person's 9th Crystarium stage for the main roles, which I hope won't take too long.

[magus113]

Well this is it. Chapter 13! I'm excited! I'm genuinely excited.

[TheSlyMoogle]

I ran 2 setups. Ravager, Ravager, Commando and Sentinel, Healer, Healer (Whatever that was called).

Found out through quick shifting early in the game that when you shift it resets your ATB gauge to full.

Ran Fang, Lightning and Hope.

Officially broke the game. Never had an issue.

Ravager Ravager commando will basically stagger any enemy in 2 rounds.

[Typhoid]

Officially broke the game. Never had an issue.

I think breaking the game would be the issue. :ohreilly:

Like playing Fallout 3, you can change the difficulty right before lockpicking/hacking to get more XP making it much faster/easier to level up, effectively breaking the game - but that's just no fun for the normal gaming populace. Most people like challenges. ;)

[TheSlyMoogle]

I think breaking the game would be the issue. :ohreilly:

Like playing Fallout 3, you can change the difficulty right before lockpicking/hacking to get more XP making it much faster/easier to level up, effectively breaking the game - but that's just no fun for the normal gaming populace. Most people like challenges. ;)

I didn't really do anything to break the game I just ran a sweet strategy.

But no you're right, paradigm shifting is breaking the game. You shouldn't even be allowed to do it.

[magus113]

I didn't really do anything to break the game I just ran a sweet strategy.

But no you're right, paradigm shifting is breaking the game. You shouldn't even be allowed to do it.

Not like they cared since it's obviously back for XIII-2.

Speaking of, who's interested in it? I actually am if I'm honest.

[magus113]

Well, I just finished it. It took me five tries to get past the first form of the final boss. That stupid one shot death move got me so mad, especially when I found out that when he conjures darkness you're supposed to ignore buffing and debuffing so you can stagger it again.

Then of course the final form had to be a joke. It was pitifully easy.

My final (get it?) thoughts (WOT sorry):

It's not the best, but it's not the worst. It tried to be different and it succeeded but I don't know if the changes were all entirely in the right direction. For example, part of the difficulty (and fun) in my case is resource management; making sure I'm well prepared to go through a dungeon but the whole automatic regeneration of health and no true game over (because really, any game that lets you get back up right before you bit the bullet for just ONE more try really isn't a Game Over) it takes away from that. Obviously this had to have been thought out from the beginning, because you can tell the enemies and the damage and things they do were designed around these aspects of the game.

I think that's probably what makes that decision such a frustrating one for me. It's a love/hate thing, though. I usually only complain about the battle system when I'm not playing it, because it is fun for the most part, even if like everyone knows, it's designed to be automated since it is still turn based and trying to pick out all the abilities is definitely not ideal, at least at normal battle speed.

I dunno, maybe my mixed feelings now are because the all too happy ending with all of the optimistic conversations and comments that they were spewing for the last five hours (at least) of my gameplay started getting a little too hard to swallow, and then there were the sudden random and unexplained reappearances of all the characters after they were turned into Cie'th and Fang failing as Ragnarok again or whatnot. I know JRPGs do things like that, but I wish that they could have tried to explain it at least a little bit.

Also it's not fair that Serah had to stay as a crystal for the entire duration of the game and then everyone else turns to crystal right after for "completing their Focus" and they go back to normal immediately afterwards I'm assuming thanks to Fang and Vanille.

Hoofah. That was a lot. Long story short, if it seems like I'm complaining...sure I might be, but my enjoyment of the game was pretty high despite that. I mean, I went through hell and high water again to get the game done after losing 35 hours of my life that I'll never get back again, only to spend another 30 or so to see it through. I will definitely say my dedication to this game comes from my initial idea of just plowing through as much as I could day by day since the first time I tried to play it I mucked around with it for an hour, saved the game, and put it back on the shelf only to sit there for another long while until now.

I will definitely be hard pressed to get everyone maxed out in the Crystarium though. That's total gamer meth stuff and I'm not buying. Good luck to those of you that do it, you have patience greater than I can fathom.

[TheSlyMoogle]

I will definitely be hard pressed to get everyone maxed out in the Crystarium though. That's total gamer meth stuff and I'm not buying. Good luck to those of you that do it, you have patience greater than I can fathom.

It's honestly not worth it. Doesn't really add anything to the story, and the characters really weren't designed to play outside their initial roles.

[magus113]

It's honestly not worth it. Doesn't really add anything to the story, and the characters really weren't designed to play outside their initial roles.

That's what I figured. That's something you allow people to do before you fight the final boss that makes everyone want to be like HNNNNNNG SUPEROVERPOWERED and all I had to do was weapon customizing and max out everyone on their main roles in the Stage 9 Crystarium. It's like, move along people

[Vampyr]

I'm probably not going to get to play until this weekend, but when I do I hope to finish it.

I'm trying to decide if I want to try and upgrade people's equipment and max out their weapons after I beat the game, or just move on to another game.

I'm thinking I probably won't. If I've already beaten the game, what's the point? :ohreilly:

[magus113]

I'm probably not going to get to play until this weekend, but when I do I hope to finish it.

I'm trying to decide if I want to try and upgrade people's equipment and max out their weapons after I beat the game, or just move on to another game.

I'm thinking I probably won't. If I've already beaten the game, what's the point? :ohreilly:

I maxed out Hope and Fang's weapons that I were using to star level of their second form since you need that ridiculously expensive ore crap to make it move up and I just did not have enough money to do that. I got Lightning's shit up as well. It brought Fang's strength up to like 1960-something, same with Hope's magic stat too. It was ridiculous. I would imagine it helped me finish the last three boss fights wonderfully. I got five stars on Barthandelus and Orphan's first and second forms.

[Bond]

Finally beat it. So glad that is over.

[magus113]

Finally beat it. So glad that is over.

What were your final thoughts?

Also, that's what she said

[Bond]

What were your final thoughts?

Also, that's what she said
I thought it was okay as viewed as a game separate of the Final Fantasy series. If viewed from the spectrum of FF, it was terrible.

Also, as you said, the final boss battle was a complete joke; and latter half of the story was ridiculous.

[magus113]

So after getting some more time to spend on Final Fantasy IV: The After Years, I find a lot of similarities in some of the plot stuff.

Have any of you guys had a chance to play the game on WiiWare or in the PSP re-release? I think I might be the only person here that's even attempted to play through them.

Also, getting into the matter of side stories and the like for Final Fantasy games, I noticed that there seems to be quite a lot, even more than we know now, what with the direct sequels and all.

If I'm thinking correctly the games that have addition plot material for them, whether it be other games or different types of media in general, are IV, V, VII, X, XII, and now XIII.

IV has The After Years and now the Interlude chapter they added for the Complete Collection PSP remake (which wasn't anything more than a three hour tacked on distraction to the After Years story. It only added an extra appearance of the Mysterious Girl character from The After Years as well as letting you see the birth of Yang's daughter Ursula, as well as Ceodore, Cecil and Rosa's son.

V has the Legend of the Crystals anime OVA that was released many years ago. It was apparently not only released in Japanese but also English as well, although I've never seen it in English and it's funny because never came out here until Anthology was released back in 2000 I believe the year was.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=4PH0YTG5 (Episode 1 - 251 MB)
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=EE5RDY00 (Episode 2 - 241 MB)
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=PLR1FVQ2 (Episode 3 - 246 MB)
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=25KHZGWL (Episode 4 - 228 MB)

Those are some download links to all of the episodes in case you're interested. The password for the .rar files is luelinks.

VII had all of the Compilation stuff. Dirge of Cerberus, Advent Children, Last Order, Before Crisis, Crisis Core...there might be even more that I'm missing, which is a scary thought. Even with all this extra plot stuff that almost all borders on fan fiction and people still want the game to be remade, which I guarantee fans are going to hate.

X has X-2. We don't talk about such things, although I've heard once the battle system is mastered fighting is actually fun, but from what I've read there isn't very much real fighting to be done, and any game that requires 100% completion for an ending I can just look up on YouTube is fine by me, I mean we all know that technically her getting over him in the end and them not being together is the better ending anyway. They were separated at the end of X, and I guess they figured they shouldn't mess with a good thing by making that the ending for X-2 as well unless you know, you want to kill yourself by getting 100% completion in that nightmare.

XII is a little complicated because technically since the game is set in Ivalice, there's a lot of games than can get thrown into the FFXII universe, like Vagrant Story, and all of the Final Fantasy Tactics games, but I think for continuity's sake I'll just stick to Revenant Wings for the DS, which was an RTS game that they made more difficult for the US because we're "used to this type of genre"? I don't know. I haven't played it, I've heard it's okay.

XIII-2 looks like more of the same but you can tell that they're totally appealing to otaku fanboys because they're exploiting Serra's momo appeal. I mean, she looks so young. The fact that Snow looked much older than she did was something that I never really understood or thought was okay for the most part.

Anyways, your thoughts? I know I put down a lot of stuff to comment on, but bear with me. It was an idea I came up with while playing FFIV: TAY.

[magus113]

Just started watching the Legend of the Crystals OVA. It's pretty cheesy, but it's old enough that I think I'll allow it. The sub group did a pretty decent job though, considering it's age. I wish I could find a clip of the dub so I could hear how horrible of a job they did with it.

[Bond]

Have you guys watched the XIII-2 footage from E3? It looks interesting ... not really sure if I like Serah playing a central role in the game though.

[magus113]

Have you guys watched the XIII-2 footage from E3? It looks interesting ... not really sure if I like Serah playing a central role in the game though.

There was a part in the trailer where I saw Lightning riding Odin and she was running across while some huge boss was tearing shit up. It looked pretty intense. I dunno how I feel about the new character whose name I can't remember either.

[magus113]

Vamp did you finally finish your playthrough?

Also, I find that the more I play FFIV: The After Years, the more it grows on me, and I don't know if it should. It's really not all that great. I know it's an attempt to cash in on an older game that people enjoyed in the past, and present considering how many remakes there were of the game, but I still find myself enjoying the little time I've spent with it so far (I've finished two of the tales and they were about 3-3.5 hours a piece and I'm 1.5 hours into the third one, so that's about 7-8 hours? A decent length to get a feel for it. At least they changed the battle system up some with the Bands and the phases of the moon affecting the different abilities in battle.

[Vampyr]

I have not. :\ I intended to beat it over the weekend, but I got sucked into League of Legends and Just Cause 2.

[magus113]

I have not. :\ I intended to beat it over the weekend, but I got sucked into League of Legends and Just Cause 2.

You were in Eden already right? Like Siren Park or some shit like that?

[Vampyr]

You were in Eden already right? Like Siren Park or some shit like that?

Yeah I'm in Siren Park, but I need to do a bit of grinding before I can move on.

[magus113]

Yeah I'm in Siren Park, but I need to do a bit of grinding before I can move on.

I think the better grinding area is Leviathan's Plaza actually, but I dunno. I had the crystarium maxed out for the main roles by the time I got there since I had stockpiled so much CP on Pulse.

[Bond]

Yeah I'm in Siren Park, but I need to do a bit of grinding before I can move on.
You could honestly probably beat the game with where you are in the Crystarium right now. The final boss is a joke.

[magus113]

You could honestly probably beat the game with where you are in the Crystarium right now. The final boss is a joke.

Well, Orphan's second form is extremely laughable. I had to go at the first form a few times though thanks to that one hit kill move it was always able to pull off.

[Vampyr]

Well, I want to grind in Leviathan plaza, but I didn't grind at all in Siren Park and the next area was pretty tough for me, so I backtracked.

Maybe I should try upgrading some weapons.

[magus113]

Well, I want to grind in Leviathan plaza, but I didn't grind at all in Siren Park and the next area was pretty tough for me, so I backtracked.

Maybe I should try upgrading some weapons.

You could, but I saved that until the very end. How far along are you in the crystarium?

[Vampyr]

Beat Chapter 12 last night...one more to go.

[magus113]

Beat Chapter 12 last night...one more to go.

Atta boy! If you know how to fight the first form of Orphan, the second will be cake. I guarantee it.

[Vampyr]

Atta boy! If you know how to fight the first form of Orphan, the second will be cake. I guarantee it.

Yeah, and I have to say I've never been more excited to be done with a game. XD I'm just ready to move on at this point, I don't think I'm going to go back and upgrade my weapons. I wish it had been more worth it to upgrade them before the end of the game.

I've found that if I just start with the Protection paradigm I can get an insane amount of buffs, switch to delta attack, and kill anything.

[Vampyr]

Finished.

[magus113]

Finished.

What are your thoughts? And congrats!

[Vampyr]

What are your thoughts? And congrats!

I thought the ending was OK. Story didn't make a whole lot of sense - it felt overly complex and simplistic at the same time.

Overall fun game, but it was linear to a fault. I tried to upgrade one of my weapons before the final battle, and realized the shop to buy most of the components I needed wasn't even available until AFTER you beat the game.

It was like they went out of their way to not let you deviate from the one set path.

[magus113]

It was like they went out of their way to not let you deviate from the one set path.

They're apparently fixing that with XIII-2 but I'm not holding my breath.

[Vampyr]

They're apparently fixing that with XIII-2 but I'm not holding my breath.

I don't think I can play that game if Serah is a main character. The little girl thing is a bit too creepy.

[magus113]

I don't think I can play that game if Serah is a main character. The little girl thing is a bit too creepy.

I know exactly what you mean. The whole relationship with her and Snow made me cringe. Not just from the physical appearance thing alone either. ugh. The whole momo thing in general terrifies me.

[magus113]

Finally completed Ceodore's chapter (again...sigh).

Also new FFXIII-2 trailer. Explains nothing of course. Doesn't show too much gameplay. Go figure.

<iframe id="viddler-fe2f7ccb" src="http://www.viddler.com/embed/fe2f7ccb/?f=1&offset=0&autoplay=0&disablebranding=0" width="545" height="349" frameborder="0"></iframe>

[Bond]

Yeah... this plot is going to make no sense.

[magus113]

I got two more tales of Final Fantasy IV: The After Years taken care of today. Palom's and Edge's. Edge's felt the most epic out of all of them so far. It's seem from the perspective of four different ninjas of Eblan and then it all comes together to a pretty epic showdown kinda deal in the Tower of Babil. I can't wait to keep going, although I think the only people I have left are Edward (ugh), Porom (alright, I guess) and Kain's (hell yeah).

[magus113]

Keeping the thread alive!

I'm on the final chapter of the After Years. Things are getting nutty.

Also, I'm considering replaying Final Fantasy VII. They've done a lot of texture mods and FMV and music replacement mods to make the game look pretty nice and run better on newer PC hardware so I might fire it up and see once again how I fare against Sephiroth and see if I don't think it's as overhyped as much as I thought before I actually took the time to finish FF8. VIII was the one I enjoyed the most until I played VI.

[magus113]

Also wanted to point out that Square has already registed a new domain name. Guess what it's called?

finalfantasyxiii-3.com

Yep.

[Bond]

Magus, I was thinking of replaying Final Fantasy VII as well. I played it once when it originally came out, and, if pressed, would say it's my favorite game of all time ... thought it might be interesting to go through it again and see if that holds up.

We could go through it together and see what we think.

[Typhoid]

Literally yesterday I was thinking about trying o find this game and replay it, but I suddenly realized I have absolutely no way to do that. I (again, literally) just got rid of my credit card, so I can't get it on PS3, which was the most infuriating thing about it to me. Plus I can't find it to download on the internet, I'm actually unaware how legal or not-legal that is where I am, but I just know I can't find it and don't have it.

I'm so starved for some JRPG I'm actually considering dusting off FFXII or FFX.

[Bond]

PS2 anywhere? You could play it on that as well.

I'll be playing it on the original Playstation, haha. It was rather dusty when I brought it out of the closet...

[Angrist]

Aren't you afraid you'll be disappointed with it? Some people say it hasn't aged very well... and those who picked it up much later said it was overrated.

[Vampyr]

Aren't you afraid you'll be disappointed with it? Some people say it hasn't aged very well... and those who picked it up much later said it was overrated.

I think if you get your mindset and mood into playing an oldschool JRPG, you'll enjoy it a ton.

[TheSlyMoogle]

Aren't you afraid you'll be disappointed with it? Some people say it hasn't aged very well... and those who picked it up much later said it was overrated.

He wont be disappointed if he already played. Yes it didn't age very well, but it's still a great JRPG.

[Bond]

What makes you say it didn't age very well? The worst thing for me right now is having to use the directional pad on my original Playstation controller.

[Angrist]

It's what I've heard. Boring gameplay mostly.
My brother started playing it a few years ago... but I think he quit. He was trying to play through all the FFs, but some of them were pretty boring.

[magus113]

Some people can't tolerate the way games age unfortunately. I'm open minded to playing anything no matter when it was released or how it looks visually. Unfortunately PSX games on HDTVs are very hard to look at. That's why I either play PSX games on my CRT TV I have in my room instead of the HDTV I have in my room for my PS3, or find some other way to play them (for example, converting it for use on my PSP, or emulating using ePSXe since it supports not only game pads but saves are able to be transferred to and from the PSP and the PC using simple tools).

Unfortunately I'm still working through FFIV The After Years, Bond so I don't know when I'll be firing up FF7 to start getting through it. By all means, don't wait up though. We can always share the thoughts as I move along to catch up.

[Bond]

Yeah, the graphics are definitely horrendous on my HDTV, but I fooled around with the display features and have it at 4:3 now, which is much better.

Gameplay is great. I'm still a big fan of the ATB system.

[Angrist]

Good to hear. :)
The FF series is one I'd love to have played... but not to play. I don't like the repetitious battles in JRPGs, but I love the stories.

[Typhoid]

Good to hear. :)
The FF series is one I'd love to have played... but not to play. I don't like the repetitious battles in JRPGs, but I love the stories.

A repetitious battle in a JRPG isn't much different than repetitive fiends in a fallout game, or endless gunfights in Mass Effect.

I do get where you're coming from though, they break up the flow of the game which can bore some people.

[Angrist]

Tbh I also don't like boring fights in lots of games. I guess Zelda is different because battles are short and there's so much variety... and the whole game is about the gameplay anyway.

Now that I think of it, I pretty much play the same thing over and over again in Starcraft II... I guess that's different because it's also about the gameplay. I don't play SC2 online for the story. :D

[Typhoid]

Well I caved and got FF6 (3?) on my laptop. I thought I'd played it, but it turns out I completely haven't. I'm hardly into the game so far (just got to Figaro castle), and so far I'm pumped with how much nostalgia playing an old snes jrpg brings back. Makes me feel like I'm 24 turning 9.

On an semi-related note, I found out yesterday that they're making a direct sequel to FFXIII (whichever one had that Lightning chick in it). I'm not sure how I feel about that yet. I enjoyed that game, but I'm not sure if I enjoyed it enough to play a different version of it.


Anyways, I'll do my best to try keep some sort of update on my progress for no other reason than I've got nothing but thyme.

[Bond]

Okay, so... we have some new Final Fantasy XIII-2 trailers:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Ku8EF0nMTe0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/tsiOsuinov4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

May contain spoilers, but let's be honest, it's not going to ruin the sure-to-be horrific plot structure anyway. Also, if this is the theme song ... ugh.

Edit: Apparently the developers are considering an "easy-mode." I am so excited for this game!

[Angrist]

Just give me an "CGI+story scenes only"-mode and I'll watch it. Maybe.

[Vampyr]

Just give me an "CGI+story scenes only"-mode and I'll watch it. Maybe.

http://www.amazon.com/Final-Fantasy-VII-Children-Two-Disc/dp/B000AMJG4Y

[Typhoid]

May contain spoilers, but let's be honest, it's not going to ruin the sure-to-be horrific plot structure anyway


I actually heard it was one of the better ones, and I had my hopes up for that. Don't bring my world crashing down, damnit.
I was reading they didn't want it to be like X-2, where the characters underwent massive changes between games. I also read somewhere that they want this game to be 'darker' or something like that. I'm too lazy and care too little to look it up and post it though.

[Bond]

Good news: Final Fantasy XIII-2 received a 40/40 from Famitsu.

Bad news: Famitsu gave Final Fantasy XIII a 39/40.

[Angrist]

Haha. :D

[BreakABone]

In honor of FF XIII-2, we've created a Top 5 FF games list
http://nerdsontherocks.com/top-5-final-fantasy

Just so I don't get in trouble, it was voted on by readers so whatever order it is.. has nothing to do with me!

[Bond]

I like the maturity of your readership:


KRIG says:
February 2, 2012 at 7:44 pm (UTC -5 )
Reply
FF7 is truly the one that as made the FF serie fall apart
FAGGOT


Frank Garrett says:
February 2, 2012 at 8:42 pm (UTC -5 )
Reply
Shut the fuck up you stupid motherfucker. I don’t need to say anymore or correct your dumbass opinion. All I need to do is call it like it is.

You are an idiot. Not for disliking FF7 but just take a god damn look at that textual bowel movement you just pasted on the screen.

Dumb fuck.

[BreakABone]

I like the maturity of your readership:

Its what happens any time you do a Top X list of anything.

[Ginkasa]

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/finalfantasy/images/4/4e/FF7_Logo.png/revision/latest?cb=20160920112537

Originally released in 1997 for the Sony Playstation, Final Fantasy VII is a series of firsts. It was the first Final Fantasy to not be released on a Nintendo console. It was the first Final Fantasy to utilize 3D graphics. And it was the first Final Fantasy (since the FIRST Final Fantasy) to not be re-numbered when released in America.

Final Fantasy VII has been ported to multiple systems over the years to remain available. It received a contemporary release on the PC (and was later re-released on Steam). It has also been ported to the Playstation 3 and 4. There is currently a full Final Fantasy VII remake in development.

FFVII focuses on the struggles of a group of rebels, known as AVALANCHE, against a corporation known as Shinra who essentially aim to take over the world. The main concern is Shinra's use of an energy source known as Mako, which AVALANCHE believes will destroy the world if abused. Both factions also have to contend with the return of Sephiroth, a villain with unclear motives.

Our playable characters consist of of:

Cloud Strife: A former member of Shinra's special forces known as SOLDIER. Cloud has left this group and now works as a soldier for hire. Throughout the game, Cloud struggles with coming to terms with his identity and the realities of his past.

Barret Wallace: The foul mouthed leader of AVALANCHE who fights with a gun attached to his arm. The only thing he loves more than the Planet is his adopted daughter, Marlene.

Tifa Lockheart: Cloud's childhood friend and member of AVALANCHE. Tifa's knowledge of Cloud's true past is the key to unlocking the secrets in his heart (I just got it).

Aeris Gainsborough: The last member of the Ancients, the ill-fated flower girl is not only Cloud's main love interest, but also the holder of the Planet's greatest hope.

Red XIII: Also known as Nanaki, Red XIII is a victim of the experiments of a mad scientist. Red XIII is a wolf-like beast and the warrior protector of his tribe.

Cait Sith: A robot cat who controls a robot "Mog", Cait Sith has a secret identity and confused loyalties.

Cid Highwind: The second Cid to be a playable character, Cid's dream is to explore space. He settles with helping save the Planet and captaining the group's airship.

Yuffie Kisaragi: An optional character. A teenage ninja who enjoys nothing more than stealing Materia,

Vincent Valentine: Another optional character. A vampire-like being with mysterious ties to Shinra's and Sephiroth's past.

Unique or new elements:

- The active party is limited to only three characters at maximum; down from the previous norm of four. Possibly due to graphical restrictions?

- FFVII is the first FF to utilize 3D graphics. The characters are 3D models who explore pre-rendered CG backgrounds. FMV cutscenes are often used to give the game a cinematic flair that wasn't possible before.

- FFVII utilizes the Materia system; possibly an expansion of the Magicite system from FFVI. Materia are crystals that can be installed in slots the groups weapons and armor. Materia allows that character to utilize various abilities including magics, summons, stealing, etc. They can also boost the characters stats.

- Limit Breaks are the extension of the Desperation Attacks from FFVI. Each character has a limit bar that fills up as they are attacked. Once full, the character can unleash a strong attack or other ability. They work differently depending on the character.

Cid Watch!

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/finalfantasy/images/b/b0/CidHighwind-FFVIIArt.png/revision/latest?cb=20110227161509

Cid Highwind is the second Cid to be a playable character. He returns to the Cid legacy of providing or piloting the group's airship. Cid Highwind is a pilot and mechanic who originally dreamed of going to space, but his dream were dashed when his launch failed and his funding was cut. Cid's surname is a callback to Kain Highwind from FFIV and Ricard/Gareth Highwind from FFII, both Dragoons. While FFVII does not strictly utilize the Job system, Cid does have similarities to Dragoons like using a spear as a weapon and several of his Limit Breaks being a jump attack.

[Ginkasa]

With the release of Final Fantasy XV a few weeks back (I just finished it a few days ago), I've been thinking about finishing up my little series here.

Final Fantasy VII was the first Final Fantasy I played. I actually have a pretty great story about the first time I played this game. I typed it out one time on reddit; I'll just quote it here:

I didn't have a PSX or FFVII myself, but my friend did and somehow I convinced him to let me borrow both for just a weekend. I have no idea why he agreed to it; he was only up to the battle with Dyne. Anyway, I only had the game for three days, so I had to really speed through it if I had any hopes of beating the thing. I made all kinds of poor decisions in the interest of expediency. I sold materia that didn't have any immediate use for equipment. I spammed my summons (but only the ones you naturally gain through the story; I didn't explore enough to get any of the hidden ones) to get through battles.; I wasted all of my elixirs and megaelixirs. I don't even know how I got to the end, really. There were a few battles where I'm pretty sure I just lucked out. Hojo comes to mind.

I was only in my low 30s when I got to Safer Sephiroth. I got through Jenova and Bizzaro Sephiroth easily enough, but Safer Sephiroth always just demolished me. Again and again I worked through the first two battles to just get creamed by the third battle. I had no idea if I was even getting close to beating him.

I looked up strategies online, but they always seemed to rely on me having Omnislash, or KOTR, or at least some fairly basic skills and items that I sold long ago. I couldn't go and get KOTR since I had sold my chocobo materia. I think I made an attempt on Omnislash, but it was going way too slow for the time I had left. I returned the game and system without having beaten it.

A few years later I got a PS2 for Christmas. I was actually more excited to get to play some of the PSX games I had missed than any PS2 games, but the top of my list was buying and finally beating FFVII. I left nothing to chance. As soon as I could I began racing and breeding my way to a Gold Chocobo in order to get KOTR. Sephiroth didn't have a chance.

I finally returned to the battle that had defeated me so along ago. I selected KOTR confident that I had just won in one swift stroke. Before it got cast, though, Sephiroth tossed up that stupid barrier that I hadn't planned for. KOTR did only half damage which didn't kill him. I fought hard, but my strategy had depended entirely on not having to actually fight and I lost. Again.

Then I fought him again and made sure to dispel the barrier before I cast KOTR and I won. Finally. Years later.

As an epilogue to this story, I remember playing Kingdom Hearts and finding the ??????? section in the Hercules world. I selected it, curious what it was. One Winged Angel began to play. "No," said, beginning to shake. "It can't be." Sephiroth appeared. "No, please," I begged the game. He absolutely demolished me. "Noooooooooooo!"

I still haven't beat him in that.

As an aside, I have since beat him using Omnislash and also without either KOTR or Omnislash. Still haven't beat him in Kingdom Hearts, though.

One thing about FFVII is that when I really think about the game, I often think it is slightly overhyped. The graphics have not aged well at all. The story is hampered by a sub-par translation. The gameplay isn't really that big of a leap over FFVI; just a little flashier. I think some of the things FFVII is known for was actually done first (but not necessarily better) by FFVI; mainly thinking about adding more technology to the series and even some of the cinematic quality the series has since become known for.

Still, there is something about FFVII that draws me to it again and again. I don't know if its just nostalgia from the days when I could literally play a video game without stopping over a weekend or what, but I am never not enjoying myself with this game. I've actually played it through again since my marathon this thread was originally about; this isn't true about almost all of the other games in the series. If I try to rank the series, I almost always include VI, IX, and X above VII for various reasons, but those games just don't pull me in like this one does. Its odd.

As an aside, I am very hesitant towards the impending remake. While I was definitely hoping for one at some point, I was really just hoping for a graphical upgrade. I don't even really want it to be up to today's standard, or even the standards of 2004 or 2005 or whenever it was the rumor train started rolling for a remake. I would be just fine if the game looked as good FFIX. For me, the issue with the original FFVII (that would be fixed with a remake) are about the consistency of the graphics and the translation. Its very jarring to go from the polygonal mini figures of the overworld to the much more detailed battles figure, back to the mini figs, and then to an FMV. The translation just needs to be done over and with a more professional touch. I worry the remake is overdoing it. C'est la vie.

[Vampyr]

What did you think about FFXV? I finished it a few days ago.

Personally I thought it was not very good.

The storytelling within the game was atrocious. If you didn't watch the Kingsglaive movie and the Brotherhood anime, you would most likely not know what is going on at the beginning of the game.

And then throughout the rest of the game, even if you watched that stuff, you will very quickly not know what is going on. Nothing is ever explained. You can learn some tidbits by reading some books that are laying around or turning on the radio in diners, but even then it's vague, and it's ridiculous that a story driven RPG would rely on something like that to convey its story.

On top of that, the side quests are awful. On top of just being fetch quests, there's no interesting story or characters surrounding any of them. It all involves running mundane errands for people who are too lazy to do their own work. Even the main characters in the game talk about how annoying the tasks are to do.

I've seen a decent number of people talking about how beautiful the world is and it's the best Final Fantasy to explore yet, but I think those people must not have played FFXIV.

And the load times. Holy moly the load times. If there was nothing else wrong with the game, the load times alone would be enough to knock a few points off its score. I feel like I spent 20% of my time just waiting for the game to load.

Then there's the voice acting. The four main characters, Ardyn, and Regis are fine. Every other character in the game has terrible voice acting. It sounds like they are literally just reading off of a piece of paper. From the moment you meet Cindy (who's design is an abomination) she says, "I'm Cindy, Cid's grease monkey granddaughter!"

I legitimately think they accidentally had her read the character description from the top of the script and put that line in the game.

And the whole game is just full of stuff like this. Characters come and go with no introduction or explanation as to who they are or why they are important. Most of the important action of the story happens off screen.

I mostly slogged through it because I thought the post game dungeons might be fun to do.

They aren't. They're just dozens of copy-pasted rooms that take hours to go through killing the same enemies over and over.

The more I think about it the more I struggle to find any redeeming quality that justifies this game's existence. The one small thing I can say is that its badness actually inspired me to play some older JRPG's to remind myself they were probably good games.

[Ginkasa]

I don't necessarily disagree with a lot of your points, but I also don't feel quite so harshly to it. I enjoyed the combat for the most part and while I agree that the sidequests were uniformly pretty terrible, I did enjoy the world and some of the dungeons that were involved. I think there is a good story hidden somewhere in the game, but agree its pretty terribly told. I was actually insulted at the few occasions where its obvious the season pass content will be plugged in. All in all, I enjoyed it more or less while I was playing it, but was definitely ready to be done by the end.

[Ginkasa]

Oh man, I started this thread just over ten years ago. It was already feeling like late stage Gametavern at that time and we've added another decade on to it. I say that, but of course the earlier pages on here are a lot more active than anything could hope to be in this new and scary decade.

Coincidentally (I swear!) I started playing through the Final Fantasy games again about a month ago. I spent a lot of time going through the MSQ of FFXIV the latter half of last year and all of callbacks and references to prior titles really got me jazzing to play through the series again. Of course I also played VII Remake which just came out which maybe the hype around that contributed as well.

For most of these games this has been or will be the first time I've gone through them since 2010 or 2011 - I think I've gone through VII (the original) and X since then and also maybe started up a few others, but didn't finish.

I have gone through I and II. These were the Origins versions, though emulated this time since my PS2 broke. Regarding I, I actually appreciated more this time how it parses out the game to the player. The first half of the game is pretty simple since it keeps you constrained - its easy to keep track of where you've been and what you need to do. Its only when you need to get the airship that I think it goes a little off the rails and a FAQ really is needed to figure it out.

I did not recall from before that II has you go back to the same village again and again. It kind of separates the game out into distinct missions rather than an ongoing journey. You're given a mission, go out and complete it, and then report back and debrief. What I thought was most impressive about this is how the game utilizes this structure effectively for immersive storytelling.

(spoilers for this 30+ year old black sheep of FF incoming)

Throughout the game you're checking back in at this same town: your home base. It becomes second nature so even when you reclaim the kingdom and your HQ moves, you still feel drawn to visit this town. You wrap up an incredibly long and draining dungeon (second maybe only to the final dungeon) and the most natural stop to rest and recuperate is your old home base on your way to the castle. But as you reach the town you notice the world map icon is destroyed and you can't even enter it. The town is gone. If you go and check some of the other towns you've likely frequented when out in the world you'll find all them in the same area have also been destroyed.

There's no cutscene. We don't see the heroes in the middle of the decimated town square and cry out for revenge as doleful music crescendos. We just experience it ourselves - our own loss at this familiar and welcome refuge. Not to say the more cinematic touch the more modern games take is bad or ineffective at all, but I think this approach really conveys the emotions effectively utilizing the technology that was available.

A masterful stroke.

I'm currently playing III via Steam. I enjoy having real characters and a slightly beefed up story, but I'd really prefer to have a nice 2D remake with beautiful sprite art rather than ugly mid-life DS graphics. After this I'll have a crossroads on whether I want to play IV via the Steam version (with slightly better mid-late-life DS graphics) or emulate the PSP version (since my PSP's battery blew up)?

[Ginkasa]

III would be a lot better if it did less to discourage experimenting with the job system. Job Levels means that a job you use more will be stronger which highly encourages sticking with a job for longer. There's a transition period that weakens a new job for X amount of battles after you switch penalizing you for trying out a new job. There are no save points in dungeons so if you whiff on a boss you can't just swap out jobs and try out that new strategy; you have to slog your way back through the whole dungeon to get back to them.

Finally, except for a couple of instances the game isn't really designed in a way to encourage messing about with jobs. I was negative about the few times it does this last time I played (and the time before that), but now I think it could be really cool if it were emphasized more and the above points were corrected. The focus would become less on grinding levels and more on figuring out the right team for the right situation.

Anyway, III defeated me this time. I got right near to the end of the game in the World of Darkness and died to one of the minibosses as his strong attacks came too often and on just the wrong characters. I reviewed my prior take on the game from 2010 and I see now that my characters were stronger before, so maybe I could have spent a night grinding and got through it just fine, but I don't have that kind of time anymore and I was anxious to get to IV.

Speaking of IV, I have decided that, when considering the first four games back to back, IV feels like I-III were games and then they made a Final Fantasy animé with an original story that was then adapted into a video game and that is Final Fantasy IV.

[Ginkasa]

I am now on Final Fantasy V. Started just yesterday. Further evidence of my apparent FF biological clock: I was looking on GameFAQs for a good walkthrough (don't want to miss anything and ain't nobody got time anymore for exploring) and I found my thread from last time I was looking for a good FAQ: dated 5/6/2010.

Lots of people back then recommended one by a person name Djibriel, but advised I would need to wait a few months for him to finish. Didn't use it then, but now I've given it a few months (or a small gross) and am using it now. Hope he had enough time to wrap it up.

First re-impressions of V is that it does fix a lot of the concerns I had with III. Jobs are viable now as soon as you jump into it and advancing in a job usually does more to power up other jobs by carrying abilities over to them encouraging the player to switch around and try out different combinations. The only box it hasn't checked for me is treating bosses like a puzzle with a particular combination or jobs most effective. There are a lot of viable options. This is very good in a lot of ways, but it gives a bit of analysis paralysis.

[Vampyr]

What are you playing FFV on?

The last time I played it was on the GBA and that was a pretty great version. The job system is really fun.

[Ginkasa]

I'm rocking the Steam version. There are a lot of concerns out there about how the mobile/Steam versions of V and VI look and in some cases it is obvious the Steam version was based off a mobile release, but I'm okay with the overall look. I think it looks good. And you can trace it back to the GBA version, so a lot of the enhancements that one had and more is in here.

I actually had originally booted up the Steam FFVI with some mods to tweak some of the mobileness of that game, but ultimately decided to go back to the beginning. Now that I've played the vanilla Steam FFV, I'm wondering if the mods were really worth it in the first place for VI.

I'll probably still keep them in place when I get to it, though.

[Ginkasa]

Knocked out Final Fantasy V Friday night. Looking back at my prior post from 10 years ago, I was more positive on V than I recalled being, so I was actually surprised at how much I enjoyed playing it this time. I guess I was misremembering my experience. The Job system in this one is a lot of fun and it really doesn't take that much time to build up a job, especially later on. I would like if they added a fast forward feature (at least) like I understand they have in some of the re-releases of the later games. It kind of feels like some of these earlier titles have gotten short shrift in the PC port department compared to the PS titles.

Speaking of, there is a lot grousing around the internet about the visuals of the FFV and VI, VI in particular. Having now played through V and a good portion of VI (I basically marathoned my way to the WoR over the weekend) I'm okay with it. They don't look as good as FFIV does in the PSP complete collection, but I wouldn't say they are unfaithful. My biggest issue is really the UI which was very clearly built for mobile phones. You get used to it, but I would definitely prefer they made these ports with a controller in mind rather than a touchscreen.

As mentioned, I did fiddle about with the A World Reborn mod for FFVI that is meant to make it look "better", but ultimately I disagree with how they went about it. You have the option to use the original SNES sprites, which are fine, but I don't think they are necessarily better than the new sprites outside of nostalgia. Otherwise, they do more to change the artistic vision rather than just, say, bump up the resolution or fix actual issues. Some may prefer their redesigns, but I do not. The UI, although differing somewhat aesthetically, is ultimately still the designed for mobile phones version regardless so I found no use in the mods in the end.

Regarding FFVI as a whole, even though I haven't yet beaten it once more I've played it enough times in the past that I don't have any particular new thoughts. I guess I could say my perspective has shifted some. If I were to categorize these games into eras previously I probably would have just stuck with console eras, but now I think differently. FFI-V come together as one era with common themes and design philosophies (with maybe II being the exception). Each game (minus II) deals with elemental crystals and has the Job system in some form - either directly involved with the player's choice as in I, III, and V, or ingrained directly into the story and characters in the case of IV. There is a clear line of progression through these games.

VI breaks from that line and, I would say now, starts the era that stretches on through VII, VIII, IX, and maybe X. There is a clear escalation in the cinematic ambitions of the series starting with VI. The game stretches the seams of what was possible with the SNES and reaches out with all its might to grab hold of what would soon be possible with the new disc based consoles. There are multiple scenes in VI that are screaming for FMV treatment and you can feel the frustration of the developers at being limited by the technology. I can practically how they might have intended some of these scenes to play out in 3D.

Further, the magicite system is much more reminiscent of materia, of the Junction system, or abilities in IX than it is of the Job system from the prior games. A clear break from tradition. There are still some holdovers with some character still aligning pretty well with Jobs, but overall it is in this game where we see a lot of those abilities disassociated from jobs and added into equipable items like, in this case, Relics.

I'll probably have VI beaten by this weekend, but can't say for certain. Looking forward to VII and going back through that one since I finished the remake. In this case I do think I want to try out some mods. I don't want to get too crazy, but there's a retranslation mod (Beacause) I'd like to try as that is my main concern with the original game. There's a couple of mods out there that upscales the FMV backgrounds. I had thought about doing something with the character models, but I think I'll leave that alone. That presume too much regarding the artistic intent, similar to my concerns about the FFVI mods.

[Ginkasa]

Beat VI. Moved on to VII. I did try on PC first. I installed the Reunion mod with another mod that most people refer to as "Satsuki's Fields" although I'm not sure if its technically called that. First impression was A+. The game looked great. The AI enhanced backgrounds looked amazing and the new character models outside of battles also looked good. These mods did really well at addressing some of the visual issues of the game while still keeping it feeling like a PSX game, if that makes sense. The new translation was alright although I didn't get to some of the more infamously muddled scenes.

Unfortunately, I experienced a crash after a battle in the train graveyard. No big, expected something like this to happen a little more often than usual, no big. Then again after fighting Hojo's monster in the Shinra building. That was frustrating as it was right after a boss battle, but it was a long while since the previous one and everything worked again after rebooting the game, so okay. But then again after fighting the robots in the elevator.

That was too high a frequency for me to ignore, so I looked it up and alas this is a known issue with the mod. There's a chance of a crash after every single battle. I researched a bit to try and see if there was some workaround. Maybe if I disabled the new character models that would do it, or something. But then I saw that there's another glitch that makes Cosmo Canyon impassable somehow due to the new translation. Well a better translation was 87% of why I wanted to mess with the mods in the first place, so I gave it up at that point. These issues would be fixed eventually, but I wasn't going to wait.

Still wanted to play through the game, though, so bought it on PS4. The 3x speed and power boost is really nice. Using that, I was able to speed through all of Midgar in just over 2 hours. Once I caught up I've tried not to abuse it, but it has made some of more menial tasks much more bearable (stealing items, walking through some of the longer passages, etc.)

I really wish we could get a Definitive version of the original FFVII at some point. Unfortunately the Remake seems to make that less likely anytime soon (not that it was ever very likely for some reason). Just a retranslation at least would make me happy but especially something like FFVIII Remastered (which I will be playing next) would be very nice.

[Ginkasa]

Have moved on to VIII. I actually knocked out VII pretty quickly, so have been working on VIII for a bit; I think I'm nearly done.

Originally, I did not like VIII. I think the first time I played it I ended up giving up partway through (IIRC, I think it was near the end of the game, TBH) as I brute forced my way without really understanding the Junction system and got stuck in a point where I couldn't beat a boss and couldn't go back to fix my Junctions. 10 years ago may have been the first time I actually beat the game and understood the system; I don't recall if that was second or third time playing it through.

The Junction system really isn't all that difficult to use, but it is a lot and that is very intimidating coming into it for the first time with expectations set by previous games. There are just a lot of differences and ripple effects those differences have on how to really play this game. Equipping summons to learn abilities doesn't sound that different from FFVI's magicite system or even FFVII's materia system, but there is so much more. Boosting your stats with magic makes levelling up less substantial which is increased by monsters levelling with you. This means you are discouraged to have random battles and you can get access to abilities removing random battles pretty early (one of my mistakes in my first playthrough was not working towards that ability because I didn't understand monsters would get stronger as I did).

Having an inventory of magic rather than MP and needing that magic to junction with makes you less likely to cast spells and more reliant on items. But not fighting battles would limit how much money you earn (battles being the traditional way to earn cash in RPGs) so instead you have a salary based on how well you play the game (although the mechanics of this are very hidden and don't always make sense, particularly in the context of an RPG). Equipment is also no longer a thing. You can upgrade your weapons, but honestly I don't know if I've ever just naturally gained the items needed to upgrade my equipment even one time. I always need to refer to a guide to figure out where I can get those items in order to upgrade, and the bonus isn't even that big.

There's just a lot.

Ultimately, FFVIII just really isn't my favorite Final Fantasy. The Junction system is fine once you get the hang of it, but I prefer the more traditional experience. I'm not a huge fan of the story either. It is famously supposed to be this grand love story, but I don't think Squall's and Rinoa's relationship is that big of a deal until all of a sudden it is. It feels like it comes out of nowhere and isn't really earned. There are several other romances in the series I prefer.

Unrelated: In the course of playing the series this time I've learned my kids are graphic snobs. They enjoy watching 3D games more than the 2D games and my son made a comment about how VIII was his favorite so far as it the Remaster looks so much nicer than any of the other games. My daughter also made like an "ugh" sound when I moved from the modded VII to the original VII when she saw the downgrade in character models and backgrounds.

[Vampyr]

Kids these days.

I feel like you are moving through these pretty fast. Have you used any emulators or anything speed up battles and whatnot?

[Ginkasa]

The newer releases of the game have "boosters" that really helps make going through much quicker. You can speed up the gameplay, turn off random battles, and keep your team's health at 100% and fill their Limit Breaks/Trance/Overdrives, etc. I haven't kept these things on the whole time, but it has helped cut down on grinding and some of the minigames. Chocobo Racing in VII is a lot quicker at 3x speed, for example.

I also haven't really had much else to do. With the COVID situation we aren't getting out, so we're just kind of chilling at home. I play Final Fantasy, the wife plays Animal Crossing, the kids play Animal Crossing or Mario Party or we also got the Clubhouse Games.

********

Speaking of moving quickly, I'm now on X. VIII goes by very quickly when the game itself encourages you to bypass random battles. Drawing would usually take in that time space, but at 3x speed and turning on invincibility I was easily able to nab 100x of each spell without a sweat. Stats at near max and enemies at low levels and I breezed through.

IX took me a little bit longer. I beat VIII right after my last post and IX only yesterday, so a little over a week for IX. IX has always been one of my favorites. It just overflows with character in everything. There's clearly a lot of love put into that game. If I have a complaint about IX, its that taking time to learn each ability from weapons kind of holds you back from using new equipment. Its fine if things flowed along well, but I feel like you get new weapons with new abilities at a much quicker pace then you learn abilities. You could just skip abilities, but that feels wrong. Small complaint, but its there.

**************

Having reached X, I was thinking again about the structure of the series. I feel confident you can clearly define an era of the series from I-V and VI-IX can also definitely be group together in the same way. Its harder to say whether X should be included in that group, or lumped in with XI-XV (or some other way.

X was a big departure for the series ditching the traditional level up system (for the first time since II) in lieu of using the new Sphere Grid system. It also ditches the ATB system introduced way back in IV for the first time and introduces the one-time only CTB system (with that said, the CTB system in a lot of ways feels like the ATB system, just instead of waiting for bars to fill it just figures out ahead of time whose turn would go when). With that, it would be easy to mark this as the start of the modern era. Moving forward from here, its a lot harder to draw a clear line of progression in each game as the series moves from single player to MMO and back and again and different gameplay systems are introduced and dropped with each iteration. You also have a lot more sequels and spin-offs than before (again, something introduced with X).

With that said, X also just feels a lot more like a classic Final Fantasy game than anything that came after. Maybe its the random, turn based battles. Maybe its the characters have clearly defined roles (if not necessarily evoking the old job system as clearly as IX did). I also have to consider that maybe I think of it this way only because it was the most recent game that had been released when I first really dived into the series. Final Fantasy was, in its entirety, I-X when I first really experienced the series as a whole and I have to admit that this experience may bias me into demarcating the series into X and before and then later.

[Ginkasa]

Something interesting about X this go around is that while I have been enticed into doing some of the extra sidequest content for most of these games, that was not true for X. I love the story, the characters, the battle system. I even enjoy the Sphere Grid. But everything outside of that primary story experience and gameplay trail just is not fun or interesting or rewarding.

One major part of the problem is there isn't a lot of incentive to explore. Getting around the world is a pain due to the way it is designed. With no sense of overworld and everything being a straight line, more or less, from beginning to end it makes travelling backwards much more trouble than previous games. The story as well disincentivizes this by having a clear goal and the only way to get there is to constantly move forward. This works great when experiencing the main story itself, but to break off and do anything extra it feels like you have to rebel against the world a little more than in other games. And, of course, you don't get an airship (which in this game just functions as a set of warp points) until just before the final dungeon. This timing wouldn't be a problem itself as you don't an airship until near the end in most FF games, but this is really only method you have to go back to previous areas without spending hours walking down a single path fighting random battles (and then again going back).

Maybe this would be fine except all or most of the side activities are terrible and the objectives needed in order to get the legendary weapons are insane. The lightning "game" is the prime example. There's nothing to really figure out. Its not particularly a test of skill. There is no entertainment factor to it. It is a test only of your patience.

Comparatively, XII takes a much nicer approach to side activities, primarily hunts. Not only are they fun and interesting to battle these monsters, but traveling is so much easier. From nearly the beginning of the game you have access to warp points to easily get to different places. The world is also designed around a single city, Rabanastre, as kind of a central hub so even without the warp points its not too difficult to walk from place to place, particularly considering you can avoid enemies if you choose.

*****

On a separate point, I don't know if I ever really noticed just how big of a leap visually the series went from X to XII. I mean, I knew XII looked better as to be expected comparing an early console lifecycle game to a late lifecycle game, but still, wow. I'm playing the HD rereleases of each game and the improvement in character animations is really astounding. Facial animations particularly stands out. X was obviously trying to animate the 3D face models for facial expressions. I think XII might be be using subtle texture changes to simulate expressions? Either way, it allows for surprisingly nuanced performances from the character models.

I'm also generally a defender of the voice acting in X as the issues mainly stem from sound design and localization issues rather than the acting itself, but without those sound design and localization issues, there's not doubt that the performances in XII are allowed to stand out as a much more positive aspect of the game's story in XII.

*****

So far I still probably overall prefer X to XII based on the story and characters; I'm also more a fan of the turn based battle system to XII's Gambit system, but there's no denying XII was a big leap for the series in multiple ways.

[Ginkasa]

Final Fantasy XII tries really hard to have a more grounded story than prior FF games. It is Final Fantasy through a A Song of Ice and Fire lens. The main events of the story of this game occur without our party's involvement, really. Our characters spend the whole game just trying to buy-in to the game of thrones and don't really accomplish much; what little they do is almost immediately taken away in most circumstances. It is a bold move and could have paid off really well, but unfortunately the game is clearly uncomfortable exploring this narrative space and falls apart as you look closer.

The characters are bland. Balthier has charisma and maybe Vaan you could say has a personality, but everyone else are very unremarkable. Either they have no interesting features, like Penelo, or they have their one scene and then fade into the background causing the player to question what purpose they really serve in the story other than placeholder, like Basch. Even our villain is only remarkable for how bland and uninteresting he is. Vayne is set up as maybe being just a politician playing the game (seemingly successfully), but it falters in finding a place for him in our characters' stories. For a story like this to work - a story where our main party is only a bit player in the grand scheme of things - it has to be focused on characters and it has be focused on character based goals and this game just does not rise to that. Look to almost any other post NES Final Fantasy game and you'll find better character work than Final Fantasy XII.

The game almost seems to realize this as when it tries to find some sort of satisfying conclusion it falls back on the typical Final Fantasy end-of-the-world-our-characters-are-gods scenario. All of the sudden our seemingly cool-headed, politically minded (if ruthless) villain is a megalomaniacal supervillain with otherworldly powers and deific support. Suddenly our party is the sole hope for saving Ivalice in an epic battle that transcends reality.

The saving grace of Final Fantasy XII is that it does provide a more fully realized world to play in than prior games and is much more interesting to explore and complete side objectives than the prior single player effort: FFX. The Gambit system is more interesting to fiddle about with now that I'm older and have just a smidge of programming knowledge. The Zodiac job system introduced in the more recent re-release is fun. I especially like you can re-spec without issue freeing the player up from analysis paralysis and just letting you fiddle about without concern of wasting hours of playtime. It is really fun to play, but the narrative behind it falls short of just about every other FF game.

I've started FFXIII just yesterday and the contrast between these games is, of course, immediately apparent. It is the first time I played FFXIII since the first time I played FFXIII, so I'm interested in revisiting it, but I also recall not liking it very much at all. We'll see how it goes.

[Ginkasa]

Not done with XIII, but I think I'm close. I did not enjoy XIII the first and most recent time I played it back in 2010 (which kicked off the marathon back in the day). Now most of way through it again I still don't think I particularly enjoy it, but maybe I "don't enjoy it" a little less than I did back then.

The weird thing about FFXIII is that it yearns to be an action game and kind of feels like they made an action game, realized that Final Fantasy's are meant to be RPGs, and threw on an RPG skin over the action game. Combat is ostensibly turn based, but it actually flows like an action game. This creates some dynamic battles visually, but comes off really weird from a gameplay perspective. Big example is when your party leader dies it is game over. Anyone else dies they can revived via Phoenix Down or magic like every other game, but if the party leader dies it is done. This makes no sense from a storytelling perspective or an RPG perspective. The party leader can be anybody and is as your work your way through the story. There's no particular narrative reason why when Hope takes over for 5 minutes Lightning can't toss a Phoenix Down at him if he falls like she could when she was party leader two screens back. Gameplay wise, it really only makes sense from an action game perspective. jRPGs we're used to being able to revive anyone who dies (or is "knocked out" or whatever) in battle through magic or items or whatever. In an action game, though, if your main (and generally, only) character dies that is it.

Of course, there is also the oft discussed linearity of the game. Inevitably brought up in those conversations is, of course, that Final Fantasy games in general tend to be actually linear when you break it down. Without going down the rabbit hole of what "linearity" actually means, I think honestly the main issue with FFXIII is pacing more than linearity. It is just battle after battle after battle. There are little to no breaks or variety. And the battles blend together. There are some interesting ideas in the Paradigm system and honestly I've had fun with it. But when you get past 20 hours of doing the same thing over and over and over again it starts to get really stale. Action games can be non-stop action because they also tend to be short. In remembering this is meant to be an RPG, SE designed this game to be at least a couple of dozen hours if not more.

From a storytelling perspective I think I'm more engaged than I was last time. That's really what is keeping me pushing through is the story. I don't love it, but I am interested in experiencing it again with a slightly more positive outlook on it. That said, there are definitely some points in the game where it is narratively dishonest which is very frustrating and also a little sloppy in revealing some details. But, overall, I think I dig the cast more than I did originally and am invested in re-experiencing how it ends (which I'm not sure i particularly remember).

I hope to be done with it this week. I'll jump back into XIV for a bit to go through the (I think) 5.25 content I haven't got to yet in preparation for the delayed 5.3 content. May fiddle about and level my dragoon maybe, dunno. After that XV. I bought the Windows Edition that comes with all the fixins, so I plan to do that and watch the movie and stuff beforehand as well. See if that improves my perception of the story at all.

[Ginkasa]

Nope, couldn't do it. Spent a couple of days choosing to do other things than play XIII. When I finally got myself to jump back into it after a while I just felt grumpy and frustrated that I was playing it. Clearly I wasn't enjoying myself. The pacing, I think, is really the thing. The repetition is one thing, of course, but also the battles just take too long and too much effort? They're not hard, but you can't just blow your past most of them. In most FF games the random/usual battles are over pretty quick - a round or two. Those are meant to be more of a war of attrition making sure you can survive the gauntlet and through to the boss. If you run into really challenging enemies you've ever gone into an area too early or maybe you're in the final dungeon.

I think the way XIII battle system is designed they were kind of forced to make the random battles more substantial in order to prevent concerns that the game just played itself (which was a concern with XII's Gambit system, if you recall, but of course with XIII you don't even have that Gambit preparation). You only can provide direct orders to the party leader (although "Auto-Battle" seems pretty encouraged); nothing for the other two characters in the battle. The only influence you have overall is Paradigm system where you choose what roles each character plays. For that system to come into play, you have to have a reason to swap roles mid-battle and to give a reason to do that I think SE felt forced to make generic battles longer and more involved than they had been traditionally.

The system itself, honestly, can be fun. I had fun with it with boss battles and in earlier portions of the game, but when you're fighting more or less the same battle with the same pattern for the 50th+ time it starts to wear really thin.

There are also smaller frustrations with the system being quasi-real time in a turn-based shell that by themselves can be forgiven or ignored, but again when you're encountering them near every battle so many times over a 40+ hour experience those small pet peeves become real aggravations eventually. Thinking about how, like, enemies have attacks that affect an AOE. They swipe a claw and any character in the path of that claw will take damage. Presumably, this would be part of a system where you have to strategically position your characters to avoid attacks like these. Except you don't have any direct control over where your characters go and they sure like to bunch up together. Maybe you could switch to ranged spells to keep out of reach, but the characters won't necessarily back off and, again, they tend to bunch together needlessly. The game would say get a Sentinel on the field to draw the enemy attacks, but when your other character refuse to break away from the Sentinel everybody gets hit anyway. Things like this don't happen every battle and it doesn't always impact the end result (with everyone going back to full strength at the end of battles), but over that 40+ hour game it happens enough.

I think if they had cut down the amount of "random" battles dramatically and focused on fewer, more strategic battles rather than dozens of drawn out peons every chapter the pacing would be much improved and the game much more enjoyable.

******

Doesn't address the story issues, though. I was feeling a little more positive on the story in my last post, but push a little further ahead and ran into some further narrative issues that played a part in my not wanting to push through and finish the game.

So, the first and maybe biggest concern I have is the Sazh suicide fakeout. The narrative is deliberately deceitful here for no purpose other than to artificially and briefly heighten the drama. It is cheap and it pulls me out of the game more than draws me in. A reminder of the scene:

After finding out some heavy info about the fate of his son, Sazh puts a gun to his head, the screen goes blank, and there's a bang. By itself this scene is whatever. Its a play for emotions and pretty obvious that Sazh didn't likely actually shoot himself when you take that scene as is. An moderately experienced audience is going to recognize the narrative trick for what it is, but its whatever. However, immediately following is a somber scene showing the bad guys carrying Sazh off in a coffin. This narratively confirms he is dead. It comes off as almost a play on narrative tropes. Like it wanted you to think it was faking you out, but then said "No, we went there." This would be kind of impressive if that were the case. Problematic a bit that the only Black character (and only second Black character in FF after Barrett, I think?) would be the one to kill himself, but the idea of a party member committing suicide is new territory and heavy stuff.

But then, just a few scenes alter, we see Sazh alive and well and a brief flashback explaining he was only knocked unconscious by some other character. This is deceitful and manipulative. Acknowledging that deceit and manipulation are legitimate tools to use narratively, these are not used effectively or with good intentions. There is no benefit to believing that Sazh is dead for 15 minutes. None of the characters are under the impression that he's dead. The people present during that scene see that he doesn't kill himself, and nobody else experiences that moment in the same way we the audience do. It changes nothing. It means nothing. It is wasted.

That puts a bitter taste in my mouth and it really stuck with me after my initial playthrough. It was the first time I was thinking I didn't like the game originally, but knowing it was coming I was trying to forgive it this time and find things to appreciate it.

However, the second piece that really rubs me wrong narratively is the drama around Vanille and Fang and their history. They were from the "enemy", Pulse, and supposedly completed their mission centuries ago and placed into stasis. They awoke recently which is the backstory that kicks off the game's events. Throughout most of the game, they each state they don't remember what happened centuries ago or what their focus was. They're not just saying this to the rest of the team, they're saying this to each other.

There is a "Datalog", like an ingame encyclopedia about the world and characters. I remember the first time I played the game I received an update to the Datalog and found under Vanille's entry new information that she had turned into Ragnarok 600 years ago and heavily damaged Cocoon. This was big info and it was new and it was delivered via an encyclopedia entry rather than in the story itself. And then the characters all acted like they knew this information, no big deal. Then plot twist! It was revealed in the story that actually Fang had turned into Rangarok. I hated this. It felt, again, like a false plot twist. I wouldn't have known that Vanille was suddenly claiming about being Ragnarok except I looked in the datalog. It felt lazy and the twist felt untrue since the datalog presented the lie as fact - not a story that was being told by Vanille.

In the years since, I learned there is an optional cutscene where Vanille lies about being Ragnarok. I questioned why this would be optional, but okay. I was resolved ot make sure I saw that scene and see the story unfold as it was meant to be. Unfortunately, the Datalog still updates before that scene is available and reveals (in a factual manner) that Vanille was Ragnarok. Okay, I said, they made a mistake and unlocked that Datalog entry early. Let's find the scene. So I found the scene and it was... nothing? I mean, a scene is there, but Vanille only casually mentions it. This should be a big plot reveal and its treated like offhand information. I was still left with the impression that I was missing something and it pulled me right out of the narrative.

And again I got to the scene where the truth is revealed, but it fell flat again, maybe even harder this time, because this whole secret and plot twist is just thrown out there without any weight or heft. We don't know the info long enough to be impacted by the fact it was a lie. It, again, feels like false drama rather than just telling the story.

*****

So, frustrated with the game and no longer really enjoying myself I decided to stop with XIII and move on. I ended up deciding not to get back into XIV right now. I'd really end up just fiddling about. I'm not spending another 6 months going through the story lol. So, I'm jumping ahead to XV.

I remember enjoying XV overall, but having some concerns with the story - this time using the narrative as a hook to get the player to buy DLC and a movie. I guess it worked because I bought the Windows Edition which comes with all that. I also didn't get into the anime and movie when it originally came out. This time I watched the anime, Brotherhood, and the movie, Kingsglaive, hoping they'll provide a little more context to the story I didn't have the first time. The anime was good. I liked the shorter episodes focused on the characters. The party is the strongest aspect of XV, so it was nice to see a little more of their backgrounds.

The movie is not good. It looks really good and its fun that the action scenes kind of looked like a cinematic version of how the game actually plays, but I didn't care anything about the movie specific characters. It did provide some background to stuff that I didn't have before. I started the game and have gotten into Chapter 2. The end of chapter 1 is when they show a brief clipshow of the movie that provides basically no info. Its like a trailer. I remember being confused and having to read a wiki on the events of the movie (refused to watch it then out of principle). I don't feel confused this time, so that's nice.

Its still early but I feel a lot better playing XV than I did XIII, so looking forward to continuing through it.

[Ginkasa]

Alright, look: Final Fantasy XV has some clear issues with how SE chose to tell the story. It is incredibly frustrating that to really understand the story being told you need to shell out for a movie and some DLC. The DLC piece has been somewhat corrected with the Royal and Windows editions that people coming into it now are likely to purchase. It all comes with, but even then the main game still has gaping holes where you need to back out to a menu and choose to play a disconnected chapter to get insight into the story (and those who haven't played before and/or aren't following some kind of guide won't know to do this [and, in fact, the game discourages this by saying you should finish the game before playing these chapters {which is a really silly decision since each one of the companion's DLC pieces indicates in them exactly when they'd be experienced in the story <although I really disagree with where you have to play Ignis' chapter since that really leaves you in the dark on some his story for a good chunk>}]).

And, yeah, the part of the game where it railroads you (literally) to the end is a bit jarring if you don't expect that.

With all that said, knowing the game's idiosyncrasies already and with some of the improvements added to more recent editions of the game, Final Fantasy XV is... well maybe not great because of these issues but I think its really good. Far and beyond my favorite non-MMO modern Final Fantasy. When I first played the game on its release, I did not watch the movie and of course the DLC Episodes were not out yet. I was very, very ambivalent on the game. I enjoyed playing it a lot more than XIII, but I was very bitter about some of the narrative delivery choices that were made.

This time I did go out of my way to watch Kingsglaive and Brotherhoord. I played Episodes Gladiolus, Prompto, and Ignis at appropriate points in the main game. I knew in advance of when the game would propel me forward at max speed towards the conclusion. The game has been updated to improve some parts of the game that dragged the worst and added in some new stuff to improve the experience. This time I thoroughly enjoyed the experience.

I would prefer if the narrative were packaged into one single experience. If they want to have Kingsglaive to flesh that out more that's fine, but the game should do more to provide the necessary details to a player who hasn't experienced the film (which is for the best - the movie ain't good). The DLC Episodes could have fit into the main narrative with probably not that much tweaking. There's space for it. If these things were done from the outset I think FFXV really could have stood out as one of more grandiose video games in terms of narrative, but now it just kind of feels disjointed if epic.

Despite these shortcomings, it is vastly superior to XIII in just about every way. XII is closer and provides a smoother, more whole experience. But some of its choices pull it away some from feeling like a Final Fantasy. Just about everything I enjoy from XIII is present in XV with a grander, if more disjointed narrative, more sympathetic characters, and more exciting gameplay. XV just also really feels like Final Fantasy in a way that XII and XIII don't capture.

*****************

Regarding series structure, I've settled on the grand eras of Final Fantasy being I - IX as the Classic Era and X - XV as the modern era. Having gone through the whole series back to back (minus the MMOs), I just don't feel comfortable arguing X as part of the classics anymore. In retrospect, while I enjoy X a lot it just really feels a lot more like the more modern titles than the older titles in the way the narrative and gameplay is structured.

(don't ask me which I prefer between X and XV right now, BTW, I'm super conflicted)

If you want to break it down further I would say that I - V are clearly OG Final Fantasy. With maybe the exception of II, these titles build on one another and are clearly building on each other as part of the same series despite the stories being disconnected from each other. VI - IX take the series into a more cinematic era and break away from the generic fantasy setting into more sci-fi and modern settings (with IX being an exception here as a marriage of the cinematic quality of the later games to the more classic themes of the older games; it encapsulates what Final Fantasy was at that time and is a perfect capstone to the Classic Era).

The modern games don't fit so neatly together chronologically as they swing wildly from game to game. However, I do think disparate games pair well together. X and XIII have a lot in common in their world structure and character building design. XII and XV both chase after open worlds with lots of side content with larger scope narratives. XI and XIV are... both MMOs? I really haven't played a lot of XI so I can't speak in detail on it, but I think being MMOs itself is enough to pair those together.

**********

So, anyway, now I'm done. I - XV minus the MMOs (although I'm about to boot up XIV to play around in that and make sure I'm ready to 5.3 in a couple of weeks). Not sure what I'm going to do with my time now. The COVID situation is worse in my state than it has ever been, so its not like its time to go out and see the sun yet. I have been feeling Assassin's Creed lately, but I don't know if I have it in me to marathon the whole series.

I dunno, we'll see. Maybe its time for a quick FPS or something.

[Ginkasa]

FINAL FANTASY XVI

[Ginkasa]

The Pixel Remasters of the first 6 games came out on the Switch (and PS4) yesterday. They come with options to adjust things like how much experience and gil you get per battle, down to 0x and up to 4x. You can also turn off random encounters.

I was not feeling well (legitimately!) so took a sick day from work and after a nap I decided to give FFI a spin with my Switch in bed. With the power of 4x boosts and turning off random encounters I was able to beat the thing in like 6 hours.

[Ginkasa]

FINAL FANTASY XVI

Played it. Beat it.

I thought it was pretty good! This is most a single player Final Fantasy has felt like (what my perception is of) Final Fantasy for a long time. It also felt a lot like a single player FFXIV (which I thought was a good thing) which maybe means the are the first two main FF games to be so similar since the OG Playstation?

The story was enjoyable as I was going through it but I'm not sure it wrapped up in a fully satisfying way. There were some questions I don't feel got satisfactorily answered or answered at all, but its also the kind of thing that maybe I'd pick up more on a second play through or enjoy more minus the disappointment that what I thought would happen didn't.

Gameplay wise, obviously the action combat is somewhat controversial, but I feel like that ship has sailed a long time ago. It was fun and the gameplay and overall world and structure incorporated enough "Final Fantasy"isms to be satisfying to me.

So all in all I enjoyed it. I'm currently feeling its my favorite single player Final Fantasy since X, but we'll see if that lasts through the honeymoon phase. I'm definitely happier with it afterwards compared to XV.