The GT Self Improvement Thread

[BreakABone]

So I guess there's no way to spin this into a positive, GT is in a bit of a rut. And with the permission of other staff members (okay Typhoid wasn't on when I made this thread), we agreed its based to have the forum discuss the issue.

I guess the most important questions:
a)What is wrong with GT?
b)How can we fix it?
c)Are there any issues with the current staff members? (At the time, myself, Bond, Typhoid and Dyne)

Some things, we can try and work on is finding new members. I feel that we have an awesome community here, but on the same hand we've known each other so long that we can pretty much predict what anyone will say to any specific thread before they respond. I also think, people are sometimes afraid to try different ideas for fear of pissing off this member or that member or getting into a discussion/argument that you really don't want to have.

Thank you for any and all input.

[Dylflon]

I don't think there's something wrong with GT that can be fixed.

It's just that we don't have anything to really offer outsiders. Is this a problem? Debatably. Do I care enough to bother to get a bunch of teenagers to join? Probably not.

[Schadenfreude]

Needs more cowbell

[Thespis721]

You could look at what makes the other forums more successful. What draws other people to the other forums? What makes the other forums work? I honestly don't post all that often but that's because I feel the rut that the forum has that BaB talks about.

Seems to me that every discussion is either:

a) a Nintendo discussion that BaB gets attacked for being a fanboy of Nintendo
b) a non-Nintendo discussion that usually boils down to two people arguing over something (i.e. the Final Fantasy debate earlier this month)

While it's sometimes interesting, like the Final Fantasy debate, sometimes it can come across as hostile and prevent certain members from speaking their mind. Not me. I don't care if people bash me. I just don't post because I already know how it'll play out.

[Fox 6]

I agree with Dylflon.

What do we really offer just on appearance? There are hundreds of gaming sites out there.

[Teuthida]

We can go clothes shopping for GT in the form of a musical montage.

GT is a small close knit community where everyone knows each other. Every so often we get a few new members who stick around. Works for me.

I don't hang out in the gaming forum but from how Thepis just described it, it sounds like the same old dumb debates from when we were younglings over sales numbers and brand loyalty. Just glancing at it now, most threads are started by BAB so makes sense he wants others to do their part.

I basically use GT as a dump for videos, music, and pictures I want to share. Also knowing some folks for over a decade now it's cool to watch everyone change and grow...and sometimes mutate in giant blood thirsty creatures of the night...but then we watch their exploits on the news and take bets on how quickly they'll demolish the city in question.

[Dyne]

Whatever drove Aladuf and company away? I can't remember. Was it just that we hated his friend Renwood?

Flunkie only left because he was a d-bag.

[BreakABone]

Whatever drove Aladuf and company away? I can't remember. Was it just that we hated his friend Renwood?

Flunkie only left because he was a d-bag.

Aladuf just kind of grew tired I would imagine, and really this forum just didn't keep pace with him.

I mean on a personal level, I'm not really sure why I care for this forum, but I do or wouldn't be so active here. I also try different ways to recruit people, some of it works, some of it falls on its face, what can you do?

I do think that we have a problem with open discussion/dialog here though. I mean often we have threads where people just kind of post independently of the discussion around the thread, which is fine, but it doesn't usually foster much further discussion. Not that everything here needs to turn into an argument or a debate, you can have discussions that are more grounded.

As for standing out, we really can't do anything to stand out, video game websites are a dime a dozen these days, and that's why the main page never took off, I'd like to try the whole alternate reporting that I suggested in the other thread, but again we need members who are willing to do the work.

I think what we need to do, to stand-out, is really just make this the best place we can as current members. Make new people feel welcomed without smothering them. We can hope to keep the members that we do have now happy, and maybe find a handful of people to enter our little community.

We could be wary of others attitudes, not everyone is big on cursing and stuff, so maybe label threads if has foul language, I don't know.

[Typhoid]

Personally, I'm a fan of our current staff.:sneaky:


I don't really have a problem with the size of the forum. We've all been here for so long that it's just like a group of friends that talk about shit, rather than a bunch of random people on the internet posting memes and talking down to eachother.


As for getting new people, I just don't think we have anything to draw anyone in.
I do think - if we do it - the GT 'cover page' with satirical reviews and whatnot wouldn't be a bad thing. We could keep GT how it is in the forum sense, but just add an Onion-esque take on video games and the industry. No other site is really doing that.

[KillerGremlin]

Small communities like this die at the hands of site expenses and members growing up and getting on with life.

My take on expanding and bringing in new members is you need to offer something, be it reviews, videos, or free swag. None of that can be accomplished with just a forum alone, so that means branching out and making a front page.

Otherwise the forum will continue to operate as is - like a small community, an enhanced version of IRC or AIM - as long as people are willing to keep up with server costs.


Alternatively, we could offer porn. Porn brings in traffic. :ohreilly:

[Xantar]

I suppose when you showed me this thread you were expecting me to complain about stupid members or something. But actually, I think your biggest problem is a structural one that's out of your control. The fact of the matter is ALL small- to mid-sized videogame forums are dying out. Especially the ones that used to have a strong Nintendo base. I see it all over the internet. I have a couple theories about why this is, and I'll let you decide whether any of it applies:

1. Current events - there's a lot of interesting stuff going on with politics. Maybe you think things are going in the right direction and maybe you think they're going in the wrong direction. But the fact of the matter is there are a lot of dramatic things happening. And they are real. I used to keep an eye on videogame news to see what Kaz Hirai or Reggie or Robbie Bach would say, but now it's more interesting to see what Barack Obama and Dick Cheney are up to.

2. People grew up - this one is pretty obvious. I'm guessing a lot of people here used to be in high school and are now in college. Or in grad school. Or have jobs. There's less time to spend posting on message boards. I suppose you could try to fix this problem by recruiting more high schoolers, but let's face it: most high schoolers are idiots. I can't believe some of the stuff I said back in the day.

It's probably even worse for Nintendo fans. I don't have any solid data to back this up, but my experience has been that Nintendo fans are generally either young enough that the family friendly image is appealing rather than a turn-off (i.e. under 12) or old enough to remember the NES days (i.e. over 21). Problem is the people who spend the most time arguing over pointless stuff on the internet are people between the ages of 13 and 18.

3. The videogame industry changed - to be specific, it fragmented. If you get 20 random videogamers together and name a random videogame, only three or four of them at a time will have played it most of the time. They just won't have a lot in common to talk about. The only way around this is to be as big as GAF or IGN.

4. Blogs - back when GameTavern first started, I don't think the word "blog" existed. Now they are very common, of course, and they are almost as convenient for discussion as message boards. And personally, whenever I have some complex idea that I want to express, I would rather write a blog post and then <del>whore it out</del> show it to people so that we can chat about it.

---

Yeah, I guess you could stand to have somebody in the Politics forum other than Strangler who actually knows anything. Some people could stand to have a transplant of their central nervous system. But fundamentally, GT is not equipped to appeal to what people on the internet want. And honestly, I don't really care.

One small question, though: why exactly are movies and TV shows discussed in a separate forum from the Happy Hour?

[Dylflon]

I'd be down for the satirical game news stories. Those could be fun.

[FuzzTop]

Theres a few problems as far as I can tell insofar as why GT is in a "rut".

1) the very same close-knit community that makes GT worthwhile, is typically what makes it hard for outsiders to enter

2) Following the advent of twitter, blogs, and everything else that fundamentally describes web 2.0, forums are slowly going the way of the bulletin board

3) We don't offer anything that typically makes the masses even come to this website in the first place. I.e. reviews, previews, strategy guides, etc.

4) I know people have already said this, but its just such a strong point that it needs to be said again: we're growing up. I've kept tabs with this site even if I haven't posted more than once or twice a year. But the truth is, the people I know from here, I've known for about 10 years now. I was in grade 6 or 7 when I was invited to ninglobe, and then after its inevitable closing shortly thereafter I ended up here. Kids today in that age range don't really go on forums anymore, its all about typing IN ALL CAPS on facebook, yahoo answers, youtube, and pissing the hell out of me on modern warfare 2 because they think that having their balls drop a week ago gives them the right to spout tone deaf lyrics like they're having an oral case of dihorrea.

/rant

the point is, that these aren't the people that are going to be taking over command of this website and those like it. So inevitably forums will go the way of the bulletin board. Sorry bab.

[BlueFire]

I was in grade 6 or 7 when I was invited to ninglobe.

lmao. ninglobe. That was great.

[Bond]

and pissing the hell out of me on modern warfare 2 because they think that having their balls drop a week ago gives them the right to spout tone deaf lyrics like they're having an oral case of dihorrea.
Almost spit out my morning glass of water when reading this... just wanted to let you know. :)

[Professor S]

Personally, I don't think we have the capacity to operate a column or article driven website in today's day and age. People expect new content daily or several time a week at least and that's just not going to happen. It may for a little while, but it will drop off over time. The fact is we do this for fun, not work.

We are all older and most of us have real lives that demand most of our efforts. Hell, with a kid on the way I suppose my days are numbered, as a regular contributor in any case.

I think a more workable solution would be to leverage the strengths of forum structure and make the site a clearing house of gaming/tech related news and opinion. Here are a few ideas:

1) Make all current/regular members staff (except me, I'm done with that) so that everyone has a stake in the future success of GT. Putting the success or failure of GT on just handful of people is a recipe for failure as we all progress in our real life exploits.

2) Give every staff member a specific and achievable task. EX. Dyne is in charge of collecting links to game reviews from all major gaming sites and posting those links/embeds on one thread each week. It's a small task, but might take all of 30 minutes to complete yet create a great source of content.

3) All staff are to originate threads as either reports of information for discussion or questions, not statements or opinion.

4) Staff created threads should not have more than two paragraphs and preferably should have bullet points and plenty of pics/eye candy. People hate to read. Sad but true.

5) Create lists for debate as an editorial group. EX. Top 10 Action RPG's of all time. Are these ridiculous? Of course but the point is to drive up discussion and hits, not to create an authority of greatness.

6) Lets all wipe the sand out of our vaginas and stop taking every goddamn thing so personally. We're a bunch of random people, most of us adults, talking about video games for Christ's sake. We need to recognize the absurdity of it all and laugh at ourselves. EX. I've known BaB for years and we've always had a good relationship, yet when I try and make an obvious joke and break his balls a little over his Nintendo preference people respond like I killed his puppy. The correct response would have been to ask me the last time a sodomized myself with my 360 controller... but NOOOOOOO... everyone gets defensive and sucks the fun out of it. No one likes a party pooper, especially new members.

In any case, if we really want this site to take off, it will demand a commitment from everyone, if even just a casual one. Follow-through has never been a strong suit of ours when it comes to expanding GT.

Thats my $0.02 for what its worth.

[Teuthida]

When was the last time you sodomized yourself with a 360 controller?

Some good ideas. And people love lists. I call Top 10 Pink Video Game Characters.


I could probably do a comic strip once a week or so if someone else wrote it. I don't follow gaming news anymore or really play any for that matter, so wouldn't know where to begin.

[BreakABone]

I think some solid ideas, some could work, some will need work (which means won't happen)

Personally, I don't think we have the capacity to operate a column or article driven website in today's day and age. People expect new content daily or several time a week at least and that's just not going to happen. It may for a little while, but it will drop off over time. The fact is this we do this for fun, not work.
I don't want to become a site on the internet really, in that regards, we will start to attract some people we really don't want to deal with (we've all been on xBL and the likes), but it would be nice to have some user generated content to show-off.

Even if it will hardly be seen by many.


1) Make all current/regular members staff (except me, I'm done with that) so that everyone has a stake in the future success of GT. Putting the success or failure of GT on just handful of people is a recipe for failure as we all progress in our real life exploits.
This is a pretty good idea, and along the lines of something TML suggested with a rotation of staff members. I mean I think everyone here is mature enough to moderate fairly and all that jazz, and if we limit it to just currently active posters, it won't be too much power spread out over too many people.


2) Give every staff member a specific and achievable task. EX. Dyne is in charge of collecting links to game reviews from all major gaming sites and posting those links/embeds on one thread each week. It's a small task, but might take all of 30 minutes to complete yet create a great source of content.
I don't think we can assign roles/tasks to people, but if folks want to volunteer for certain tasks that would be awesome. Like how I started the GT Twitter account (which has gotten us a few members, but no one overly active yet)

3) All staff are to originate threads as either reports of information for discussion or questions, not statements or opinion.
Bond was suggesting something similar with staff members making two threads a week or so.

Personally, doesn't effect me, I post more than that in a day, but I don't think forcing people to post threads in a certain format will help as we may get to the point where people just make threads to make threads instead of wanting to make them.

5) Create lists for debate as an editorial group. EX. Top 10 Action RPG's of all time. Are these ridiculous? Of course but the point is to drive up discussion and hits, not to create an authority of greatness.

One of the easier ideas to get working.
We can have a nice discussion and after the end of a week, can settle on a Top W/e for W/e, and people do love lists.

6) Lets all wipe the sand out of our vaginas and stop taking every goddamn thing so personally. We're a bunch of random people, most of us adults, talking about video games for Christ's sake. We need to recognize the absurdity of it all and laugh at ourselves. EX. I've known BaB for years and we've always had a good relationship, yet when I try and make an obvious joke and break his balls a little over his Nintendo preference people respond like I killed his puppy. The correct response would have been to ask me the last time a sodomized myself with my 360 controller... but NOOOOOOO... everyone gets defensive and sucks the fun out of it. No one likes a party pooper, especially new members.

In any case, if we really want this site to take off, it will demand a commitment from everyone, if even just a casual one. Follow-through has never been a strong suit of ours when it comes to expanding GT.

Thats my $0.02 for what its worth.

I will agree that GT has become a hostile environment even for long-time posters (and let's be fair here, you helped create some of that atmosphere) but at the end of the day, we are all words on a screen, and should learn to let things go.

I can attest to being a bit short with people especially when it comes to certain discussions, but its also like repeatedly running into the same wall over and over again, you feel dumb for doing it, but it can't be avoided.

I'm more concerned about GT not shrinking anymore than I am of expanding it, but if we can expand and keep the forum happy would be the best of both worlds.

[TheSlyMoogle]

Meh I think perhaps the biggest deal with the forums is the fact that the most active users here talk to each other on a daily basis in some form, be it real life or over some Messenger. Back when I first started posting here, really no one had messenger systems. Hell it was all I could do to just surf through a few threads in 30 minutes on dial up, and if pictures were involved I was doing 1 thread an hour lol.

Since I've come back though, not only was I added to a bunch of people's various messenger lists, but also all of a sudden we weren't just typing, we were playing games together nightly.

I mean I think that sort of killed a lot of it. Why post in threads when pretty much every user talked about the same thing on MSN an hour ago?

Also with the user made threads about games... At what point does it matter when there are websites that not only do what you want to accomplish in threads like that, but also do it better.

Example: The thread I made on games for the first 3 months of this year, there were websites that not only did what I did for that thread, but did it faster and on January the 1st. The only difference is they didn't have the mostly sarcastic comments under each trailer. Well most of the sarcasm was directed at the Wii for having mostly shitty games.


With the adding of new users, well that's fine too. The only thing is, we have all been here a long time. I mean, some of us left, came back, got new names, but the game is still the same.

What really brought me into this was having a friend here first, and then when he posted up, I felt it was ok to respond, then gradually I ventured out into my own posting routine.

It's hard to start in on a new forum, and like has already been said, it's not very common anymore these days for people to post on a forum. They're still around, but it's just kinda moot. I mean I only post here basically. Dustloop.com occasionally because of guilty gear stuff.

[Typhoid]

Am I the only one who thinks the site isn't doing all too bad right now?
It doesn't need a major overhaul or anything. It doesn't need drastic structural changes.

The reason I like this forum, is because it's rather small. You 'know' everyone; or at least feel like you do in some sense, even if you don't know them in real life. I look at GT like a place to just talk about random things with people I've 'known' for years.

If we're to get new members here, I say the best way to get around to it was basically the way we all joined in the first place - word of mouth from a friend already on it, or someone inviting you via some other forum.


And so what if we're all getting older and growing up? Will the forum die? Probably not. It hasn't yet. Those with super busy lives still come here when they can. Even the members in bands who tour Europe and North America find time when they can. Hell, even those of us who were in the military found time to post on here and check up with everyone.
Will we lose some members? Of course. We already have. (Fufubot is deeply missed each passing day) But some of them still come back to touch base. Will we gain new ones? Most definitely.

[Bond]

Great suggestions so far. Keep them coming.

[Professor S]

I think regardless of what strategy you take, you will always come across the one truth of all forums: You can have quantity OR quality. You can't have both. If we don't care about quantity, then why are we even having this discussion? I think the hidden truth is that we want more people; some new blood to give the forum a little life.

As for me being hostile, I do not agree, and to be honest I'm sick of that stereotype. Except for one member, I have not flamed or insulted anyone, and even that was a rare occasion out of sheer white hot frustration. Are my posts challenging at times? Sure. Provocative? Absolutely, and if you'll notice when I get going those threads tend to:

1) Get a ton of views. More than just regular active members can provide. That means there are some lurkers enjoying the spectacle of the debate. Thats how I STARTED HERE, if anyone will remember. I became so enthralled by a contentious console war debate I had to join in.

2) Get a ton of posts. I challenge people so that they'll actually think about their own views and find the will to defend them. There is nothing so pathetic and BORING in this world as a lazy opinion. Those "hostile" threads tend to have some of the most thoughtful and intelligent content on the entire forum (myself excluded).

Perhaps we should have more "hostile" threads, and not less, unless we want to resume out average two sentence posts and continue the decline into summer, when the forum might grind to a complete standstill.

[TheSlyMoogle]

Well I'm always down for drama and hostility. It's why I live for the internet.

[Fox 6]

Dont worry Prof I still love you.

[The Germanator]

I love this forum. It's way better than the Spinto Band forum. I'm pretty sure we have less than ten active members. It's been consistently fun to come to for many years (10+ amazingly) and great to meet some of you in real time. I'll be here as long as you guys stay cool.

Even Strangler, who I totally disagree with a lot. He's a PA dude and can explain himself, so I'm fine with him.

[KillerGremlin]

I'd pay good money to see Prof S and TheGame fuck each other up in real in real life. We should have an open paypal donation thingy to arrange for tickets. That can be our gimmick to build a site around. "Donate money to see two people pummel the shit out of each other in real life!"

Also, I'm still down for converting GT to porn. Who is with me? :D

[Professor S]

I love this forum. It's way better than the Spinto Band forum. I'm pretty sure we have less than ten active members. It's been consistently fun to come to for many years (10+ amazingly) and great to meet some of you in real time. I'll be here as long as you guys stay cool.

Even Strangler, who I totally disagree with a lot. He's a PA dude and can explain himself, so I'm fine with him.

What's a "PA dude"? Politically Active or Potential Asshole? Both? :D

[TheSlyMoogle]

Potential Alcoholic? or Professional Alcoholic. Like when you go beyond being the Gary Bussey of alcoholics, you're a professional.

[The Germanator]

Haha, just meant Pennsylvania, but those others work too.