Final Fantasy 13 Dated

[BreakABone]

Seems like Q1 is gonna be a hectic time for gamers.

March 9th, 2010
And can read all the un-needed stuff below.

PRESS RELEASE

Square Enix Ltd., the publisher of Square Enix interactive entertainment products in Europe and other PAL territories, announced today the highly anticipated street date for FINAL FANTASY XIII. This latest project in the multi-platinum FINAL FANTASY series promises to be intensely compelling and will be available for both the PlayStation3 computer entertainment system and the Xbox 360 video game and entertainment system from Microsoft on 9th March 2010.

FINAL FANTASY XIII marks the dawning of a new era for the celebrated series, bringing the series to multiple hi-definition consoles simultaneously for the first time in its history. Expanding upon the rich tradition of the series, producer Yoshinori Kitase (FINAL FANTASY VII, X, X-2), director Motomu Toriyama (FINAL FANTASY VII, X, X-2), character designer Tetsuya Nomura (FINAL FANTASY V, VI, VII, VIII, X) and art director Isamu Kamikokuryo (FINAL FANASY X, XII) combine their creative vision to deliver the latest masterpiece in the FINAL FANTASY universe. Additionally, Masashi Hamauzu (FINAL FANTASY X, DIRGE of CERBERUS -FINAL FANTASY VII-) presents a sweeping soundtrack while movie director Takeshi Nozue (FINAL FANTASY VII ADVENT CHILDREN) and his team of artists adorn the game with seamless cinematic sequences of unparalleled calibre.

“FINAL FANTASY XIII promises to be a huge event in the 2010 gaming calendar,” said Phil Rogers, president and chief executive officer of Square Enix Europe. “This is truly a landmark title, arriving simultaneously for multiple platforms for the first time in the history of the series. We are also immensely proud to be able to bring the game to the European and PAL audience much earlier than was publically anticipated.”

Multi-platinum, Grammy-nominated singer and songwriter Leona Lewis has come on board with Square Enix to provide the theme song for FINAL FANTASY XIII. The song is entitled “My Hands,” and is featured on her highly-anticipated second album ECHO (J Records/Syco Music) set for release on November 16th. Leona Lewis took the music world by storm with her 2008 6x platinum debut album Spirit which features her chart topping, biggest selling single of 2008 “Bleeding Love,” and mega-hit “Better In Time.”

“When Square Enix approached Leona about including her song, “My Hands,” in FINAL FANTASY XIII, she was honoured to be partnered with such an iconic and groundbreaking video game series,” said Tom Corson, EVP/GM, RCA Music Group. “Leona is a natural fit with the game’s powerful themes and strong female protagonist. We’re delighted to be part of this effort, bringing great musical artistry to FINAL FANTASY XIII which is a riveting and dynamic gaming experience.”　　

Introducing new worlds, memorable characters and extraordinary stories with each new instalment, the FINAL FANTASY series has continued to reinvent itself over the last two decades and has shipped over 85 million copies worldwide. The series is defined by a constant evolution, offering nothing less than the finest creative vision, graphical quality and gameplay system of its generation with every instalment, and FINAL FANTASY XIII will be no exception to its legacy.

[Vampyr]

GiantBomb article about it, with video:

http://www.giantbomb.com/news/final-fantasy-xiii-march-9-in-north-america/1759/

You can stop worrying: There are in fact games coming out early next year. One of them is Final Fantasy XIII, which Square Enix has just confirmed will release in North America on March 9. That's both the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 versions of the game.

The company also confirmed the game's requisite pop song will be performed by... Leona Lewis. Still scratching my head a bit over that one, though at least this choice will curry more favor in Western markets than the Japanese pop stars that have contributed to previous games in the series. This also marks the first time Final Fantasy and Simon Cowell have come together in a meaningful capacity.

Hey, Square put out a trailer to promote this announcement. This trailer has a host. They are serious about this.

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While I'm throwing promotional business at you, here are three new shots of the game, along with the company pitch on the game's story and features (WARNING: STRAIGHT OUT THE PRESS RELEASE). Square would also like you to know that three new characters--Fang, Hope, and Serah--are now on display at the official site, too.

Story
Cocoon — a utopia in the sky.
Its inhabitants believed their world a paradise.
Under the Sanctum's rule, Cocoon had long known peace and prosperity.
Mankind was blessed by its protectors, the benevolent fal'Cie, and believed that tranquil days would continue forever.
Their tranquility was shattered with the discovery of one hostile fal'Cie.
The moment that fal'Cie from Pulse — the feared and detested lowerworld — awoke from its slumber, peace on Cocoon came to an end.
Fal'Cie curse humans, turning them into magic-wielding servants.
They become l'Cie — chosen of the fal'Cie.
Those branded with the mark of a l'Cie carry the burden of either fulfilling their Focus or facing a fate harsher than death itself.
A prayer for redemption.
A wish to protect the world.
A promise to challenge destiny.
After thirteen days of fates intertwined, the battle begins.

Features

* Take Part in a Gaming Experience that Sets New Standards – The first in the series developed for a simultaneous release on multiple high-definition consoles, FINAL FANTASY XIII pushes new boundaries in cinematic presentation, sound and gameplay.
* Experience the Unity of Speed and Strategy with the Ultimate Active Time Battle system – The familiar system has evolved, granting players the freedom of executing numerous commands in a single turn with the multi-slot ATB gauge. Whether inputting singular commands in each slot for consecutive attacks, or expending multiple slots at once to activate a devastating blow, it’s up to the players to respond effectively to the battle conditions at hand.
* Adapt to the Ever-Changing Tide of Battle with Paradigms – A brand-new game mechanic enabling players to assign roles to their party members at any time during battle, shifting between combat paradigms. Consisting of various combinations of the game's six roles, ranging from Commando, the offensive specialist, to Medic, the quintessential healer, paradigms allow players to respond and adapt instantly to any given situation to turn the tide and seize victory.
* Witness the Battle Scene Transform with an All-New Summon System – Introducing Gestalt Mode, a powerful dimension of the summon system that elevates the action to a whole new level. In Gestalt Mode, characters and their transformed Eidolons fight as one, dealing massive damage to enemies through simple button commands.
* Delve into an Emotional Experience – An immersive storyline connects players to an intriguing cast of characters. Will they have the strength to confront their cursed fates, or will destiny prevail over all that they believe in?

[TheGame]

I wonder when XIV will be out.

[Angrist]

In other news, I heard FFCC:TCB did not sell too well in Japan. Weird, it looks like a very fun game to me.

[DarkMaster]

In other news, I heard FFCC:TCB did not sell too well in Japan. Weird, it looks like a very fun game to me.
Nor did it receive great scores from Japanese magazines/other shit. Can't say I'm surprised, but I remain hopeful.

So Mass Effect 2 and FFXIII in the first few months of the new year, can't wait to be playing RPGs again.

[Dylflon]

I lol'd at the exclusive never-before-seen look.

Couple battle shots + riding a chocobo.



I am actually super pumped for this game though.

[Szymon]

I yearn for a final fantasy in HD.

[Typhoid]

I don't like the "Your HP/MP is automatically regenerated after every battle" deal.

But we'll see.

[TheGame]

I don't like the "Your HP/MP is automatically regenerated after every battle" deal.

But we'll see.

Why not?

I used to hate being killed by something pityful, or fighting a weak enemy with some cheap attack that puts you at a huge disadvantage. (Self destruct moves are the first thing that comes to mind)

But I guess what I hate more then that is the random battles that would pop up without warning.

[BreakABone]

Why not?

I used to hate being killed by something pityful, or fighting a weak enemy with some cheap attack that puts you at a huge disadvantage. (Self destruct moves are the first thing that comes to mind)

But I guess what I hate more then that is the random battles that would pop up without warning.

Let's call a spade a spade, RPGs aren't that difficult of a genre. For the most part, doesn't deal with reflexes like most other genres.

Where the skill comes in is item management and character development, if you take away part of it by healing after every battle, you make the game simpler.

We all hate the self-destruct enemy, but you take them down before can do harm or you come prepared with tons of healing items or a character.

And you need to always be ready for battle, that's the point!

And what random battles pop up with warning?

[DarkMaster]

Lots of RPGs now offer full healing after battles, or at save points. Chrono Cross was one of the best games of all time in my opinion and it offered healing after battles, which really just made it less annoying, not less difficult.

From what I've gathered of FFXIII's combat system, it's designed to be made more challenging depending on the skill level of the player, like if you're blowing through battles like nothing the enemies will progressively get harder. And apparently boss battles were designed to be specifically hard for this game because of a system that they implemented where you can retry a boss battle right after you die. Also I think "exp" and rewards are determined by a rank you receive at the end of each battle which calculates your performance, so if you did terrible and need a lot of healing at the end of a battle, you'll receive not so great rewards, and vice versa.

Basically it's a system that claims it'll hold your hand if you want it too, but greatly encourages you to play better.

[Typhoid]

Where the skill comes in is item management and character development, if you take away part of it by healing after every battle, you make the game simpler.

Ding. This, exactly.



And DM, Every super recent Final Fantasy has offered full healing at save points. I am okay with that. I am actually completely okay with that, as it adds the element of health management to the game.

But with the "Alright, we removed random battles from the game, and we also removed health management."

And we're already only controlling one character with this game.
So, only 1 character...no health management, no random encounters.
What's next? No leveling system? Instead your new level is displayed as a puppy that ages over time.


Actually...

[Szymon]

I can't imagine that simplifying things a little makes a huge difference if the story is amazing and you're still having a lot of fun. I guess if you need something very challenging, then you might be out of luck. I'll reserve my judgment for after I've played it.

[Vampyr]

Regenerating health after each battle usually means each individual battle is tougher and more exciting, as opposed to long series of tedious fights.

[Typhoid]

I've never played - nor conciously know of - an RPG where you regenerate health after every encounter.

That's like in Fallout 3 if your AP and Health regenerate after each enemy. It's dumb. Even if battles are harder - it's still dumb. What made them hard before (to the point of this conversation) was health and MP management.


This is almost as bad of an idea as Tactics A2's MP starting at 0 each battle.

[Angrist]

For the most part, doesn't deal with reflexes like most other genres. Hm, I seem to remember something about a 100 lightning hits... That was infuriating.

At least my brother told me so. :)

[BreakABone]

Regenerating health after each battle usually means each individual battle is tougher and more exciting, as opposed to long series of tedious fights.

Well, the problem with that is... instead of a long serious of tedious fights... you get long tedious fights.

There is a very fine balance. If the fights become longer and more epic because your health regen after every battle, it will get boring, and make boss battles feel less so.

I think automatic health regen is a terrible idea, but we shall see when impressions start rolling in from the Japanese release.

[Dylflon]

Oh no!

We have to focus less on potions and ethers!

How will I ever enjoy this game?

[Vampyr]

Well, the problem with that is... instead of a long serious of tedious fights... you get long tedious fights.

There is a very fine balance. If the fights become longer and more epic because your health regen after every battle, it will get boring, and make boss battles feel less so.

I think automatic health regen is a terrible idea, but we shall see when impressions start rolling in from the Japanese release.

Dragon Age works this way and the fights are not very long, and they're about 100x more fun than any Final Fantasy fight has ever been.

I've never played - nor conciously know of - an RPG where you regenerate health after every encounter.

Again, Dragon Age.

[BreakABone]

Dragon Age works this way and the fights are not very long, and they're about 100x more fun than any Final Fantasy fight has ever been.



Again, Dragon Age.

I haven't played Dragon Age, and know can look up the answer, but is the game turn based or real time?

[Vampyr]

I haven't played Dragon Age, and know can look up the answer, but is the game turn based or real time?

Sort of a combination of both. You can move around freely during battle, and you can assign certain attacks to buttons (or access them through the radial menu), but the game is very tactics based.

Every time you pull up the radial menu, the game pauses. So you can bring up the radial menu, then queue up an attack/spell/talent for every character, then unpause and let them go. So you can set up one mage to freeze an enemy, and another to shatter them with a rock spell or something.

But you don't even have to do that unless you're on a high difficulty, you can beat the game just playing as your one character and letting the programmable tactics do their work.

[Szymon]

Here's some new screenshots for you guys. (http://news.vgchartz.com/news.php?id=5921) Looks like a beautiful game. HD <3

Come on you guys. You know the only difference this means is that you don't have to spend money on potions anymore, like Dylflon said, or that you don't need to Curaga the entire team afterwards, wasting precious mana. All this means is that you no long have to go through the game uncertain of how much mana you're allowed to spend on an encounter so as not to run out before you can rest or reach a boss. This doesn't mean we can go ape shit with our mana every encounter, because you can still run out before your enemies are defeated.

Also, how many times have you entered a random encounter and realized you forgot to heal before hand? Healing after battle for most people is automatic, so why not just remove it?

What this automatic healing process means is that we no longer have the requirement of carrying healing and mana potions or tents/cottages. It also removes the developers obligation to put in Inns and healing centers that might disrupt the flow of the game.

If you're worried about the loss of endurance style challenges and the satisfaction of being prepared for boss battles, then you need to realize that the endurance challenges will present themselves in rationing mana and maybe health potions too but during combat and not during your progress through the story.

I'm just as eager to see the reviews as everyone else bashing this new replenishment system because although I can sit here and speculate like the rest of us, I don't know for sure if this game will be good.

[BreakABone]

You know, maybe I'm seeing it differently.

Its not that one necessarily enjoys carrying around potions or reaching a Inn before dying of poison, its that it removes one of the few balancing aspects of the genre.

I mean what's to stop you from going balls to the walls in a battle because you know your health will regen as soon as you're done.

What you folks see as tedious and mundane... really is kind of the heart of RPGs... don't take that the wrong way, but as I stated before, where as most games challenge your reflex and timing, RPGs were usually more about careful management and long term thinking. You kind of lose both of that when the threat of death is so severely hampered by always getting full health.

[Szymon]

I mean what's to stop you from going balls to the walls in a battle because you know your health will regen as soon as you're done.

Nothing. Infact, I'm hoping that most encounters will encourage you to go balls to the walls.

My favourite final fantasy game was FF8, a game that required you to DRAW your magic from the enemy before you could use it. In early game, this means using the draw ability 100s of times in order to equip 3 characters with all the necessary magic. I found this system really fun, despite the extreme boredom that seems to sweep most other people I try to introduce this game to. I am familiar with tedium.

That being said, I too enjoy the planning and management involved in these games.

[BreakABone]

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Here's a look at the battle system, and it just doesn't seem that compelling all on its own, but could just be me.

[Typhoid]

View it like playing a sports game - let's just say NHL 10.

Now, in previous years, players get injured, and are out for a few days/weels based on how they preformed in fights/hits etc.

Now, if you completely remove the fact that if a player gets injured he will be out in future games, that changes the dynamic of the "well-being" factor of your players/characters.

[Szymon]

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Here's a look at the battle system, and it just doesn't seem that compelling all on its own, but could just be me.

For two people who enjoy the game, they certainly do make fun of the game a lot.

[Szymon]

View it like playing a sports game - let's just say NHL 10.

Now, in previous years, players get injured, and are out for a few days/weels based on how they preformed in fights/hits etc.

Now, if you completely remove the fact that if a player gets injured he will be out in future games, that changes the dynamic of the "well-being" factor of your players/characters.

Well, no, because the coach would just use a potion on the player if they were ever injured or some Phoenix down on the player if they were killed. The coach is always prepared for that kind of stuff.

[Vampyr]

Well, no, because the coach would just use a potion on the player if they were ever injured or some Phoenix down on the player if they were killed. The coach is always prepared for that kind of stuff.

:lolz:

[Typhoid]

It's like talking to a wall with another wall for a brain.

[TheSlyMoogle]

I've never played - nor conciously know of - an RPG where you regenerate health after every encounter.

This is almost as bad of an idea as Tactics A2's MP starting at 0 each battle.


Final Fantasy Tactics. Save for 3 battles where you went from 1 fight to the next in succession but the first battle was always simple.

Pretty much every strategy RPG had heals after every battle. For the most part it's never about the heal management. Pretty much every RPG gives you enough healing stuff to cope with the loss of HP. Whether you're sucking down potions or tanking on the giant mana pool of your white mage, whose sole purpose is to heal you and deal like 25 damage to the critters, up until he/she finally learns some disable spells and then by that time you've probably got some broken equips, skills, or spells that make healing mostly useless.

I can't think of any RPG where healing has been a big deal to me except inside a battle, and most of the time I'm thinking "Hmm... Do I have enough HP to tank another hit and end the battle or should I heal now?" That's it because I never have to heal except at the end of the battle or during boss battles. I find it to be a fine concept, as long as they compensate in other ways. Need of mana to deal damage to the enemies or something like that. Who knows.

I'm still excited for this game, and it's about time a final fantasy game made me want to play it.

*shakes head at 10 and 12*; *Sideways glance at 9 for being pretty terrible too*

[DarkMaster]

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Here's a look at the battle system, and it just doesn't seem that compelling all on its own, but could just be me.
That demo is of a much earlier version of the battle system which the developers have said numerous times is not fully reflective of the actual game, so much so that if there were to be a demo for North America they wouldn't be able to release that same demo. Plus the entire purpose of releasing that demo a year before the game's release was to asses fan feedback.

But anyways, has anyone actual looked at the screens posted? http://news.vgchartz.com/news.php?id=5921

Game looks beautiful. The first actual, fully realized RPG of the HD era, it's very exciting.

[Szymon]

It's like talking to a wall with another wall for a brain.

My point is that with enough phoenix downs and potions and white magic available, there never should have been a point where you were traveling through the game with unconscious or dead team members. Comparing to a hockey game is apples and oranges.

[Szymon]

Final Fantasy Tactics. Save for 3 battles where you went from 1 fight to the next in succession but the first battle was always simple.

Pretty much every strategy RPG had heals after every battle. For the most part it's never about the heal management. Pretty much every RPG gives you enough healing stuff to cope with the loss of HP. Whether you're sucking down potions or tanking on the giant mana pool of your white mage, whose sole purpose is to heal you and deal like 25 damage to the critters, up until he/she finally learns some disable spells and then by that time you've probably got some broken equips, skills, or spells that make healing mostly useless.

I can't think of any RPG where healing has been a big deal to me except inside a battle, and most of the time I'm thinking "Hmm... Do I have enough HP to tank another hit and end the battle or should I heal now?" That's it because I never have to heal except at the end of the battle or during boss battles. I find it to be a fine concept, as long as they compensate in other ways. Need of mana to deal damage to the enemies or something like that. Who knows.

I'm still excited for this game, and it's about time a final fantasy game made me want to play it.

*shakes head at 10 and 12*; *Sideways glance at 9 for being pretty terrible too*

I was on the bus this morning thinking about FF tactics and was going to make a post about it but you beat me to the punch. Sure, counting your potions and making sure to properly ration them is something we're all used to, but is it really the best part of the game? No. Does it really affect the story? No.

What it does affect, is your play style and your attitude towards rationing items. Have you ever finished a Final Fantasy game with barely any items left? If you're a rationing king and pack rat like me, the answer is "AW HELL NO, I SAVED EVERY ETHER, ELIXIR AND POTION I COLLECTED!" So what value do these items have, if they're never used?

I'd like to see a Final Fantasy where these items are rare and not as necessary as they used to be. Going through the game relying on potions and white magic to heal yourself is a burden, albeit one that a lot of you guys seem to cherish. Have you ever been really excited about healing up after random encounters? Have you ever opened your menu and looked at your characters health and thought "Oh yaaa! It's time to use some potions, baby. I'm literally giddy with excitement about this, and I wish I could see more of this in future games!" Probably not. More likely, you're thinking to yourself "Oh okay, yea I guess it's time to heal." Then you press a few buttons, and go through the boring task of shuffling through your inventory, finding your potions and applying them to your characters to get them as full as possible without wasting any potions. This sort of boring yet necessary task is better off automated, in my opinion.

On the other hand, it could be that I power through this game and finish it without feeling any sort of challenge at all, which would be a bummer. Only time will tell.

[Szymon]

Time, and professional reviews from respectable websites.

[BreakABone]

Ask Me Anything

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[TheSlyMoogle]

Oh Square I thought we learned are lesson from the Sphere grid of yesterday?

Leveling system looks like shit, ability usage system looks and sounds like shit, battle system looks Mediocre, random battles look like they will take entirely too long to be enjoyable, I heard from my Japanese speaking and reading friends the story is ass.

Basically it's pretty.

I'm still going to play it, but not sure if I'll enjoy or not after watching that and talking to some people.

The Paradigm system looks kinda fun, and so that could be ok.

[DarkMaster]

Learned their lesson with the sphere grid? What lesson would that be, exactly? That it was fuckin awesome? I am blown away that they have created an evolution of the sphere grid system, I thought it was one of the best changes they ever made with the series when FFX came out. Leveling up is standard now, it's boring, every game has leveling up, it's become completely redundant. Thank god an RPG is trying to do something more with the concept.

You're awfully quick to judge a 40 hour game from a 5 minute video of a demo given to the press.

[TheGame]

Learned their lesson with the sphere grid? What lesson would that be, exactly? That it was fuckin awesome? I am blown away that they have created an evolution of the sphere grid system, I thought it was one of the best changes they ever made with the series when FFX came out. Leveling up is standard now, it's boring, every game has leveling up, it's become completely redundant. Thank god an RPG is trying to do something more with the concept.

You're awfully quick to judge a 40 hour game from a 5 minute video of a demo given to the press.

Agreed.

I loved the sphere grid, though I wish they'd make another FF with FF7's ability system. I just like having a lot of freedom in how I develop my characters. I had Yuna learn a bunch of black mage abilities and she made Lulu seem useless. It was fun!

[BreakABone]

There's really no way this won't come off the wrong way to some, but eh.

I was just curious for the few multi-console owners here, which console are you picking up FF 13 for?

I mean if I do decide to get think will get the PS3 version simply because its only one disc compared to the 3 on the Xbox. :lolz:

The second part is pretty negligible as well, but here are some comparison shots.

http://www.novacrystallis.com/comp3.jpg

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2010/02/ffxiii_event01.jpg
http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2010/02/ffxiii_event03_02.jpg

[Jonbo298]

The part that bugs me, is that it seems that Square forgot to use AA on the 360...

[Thespis721]

::cracks knuckles:: Okay. My friends who love Square games told me how much they are excited about this game coming out, but honestly, I have no excitement. I don't think Final Fantasy has been good in a LONG time. It's old hat and Square has beaten the franchise into the ground with their spin-offs. Not to mention I can't BEAT the games because I lose interest.

Here's my problem, and I realize this has to do with my completionist nature:

I start playing some of these RPGs, FF being notorious for it, and they toss in a whole bunch of extra stuff. Like hunts. And I want do all these hunts because I want to get my maximum experience in the content but then after a while I sit there and thing, "What the frak was I doing? What's going on in this story? Who's doing who in the what now?" And I lose interest in the story, thus losing interest in my driving force to play RPGs, because, like BaB said, it's not a skill oriented experience, ESPECIALLY jRPGs. And then I start thinking, "Well, why the heck, when the world or universe is on the line, am I frakkin' around doing errands for some old hag in a marketplace? I need to save the world!"

Thus, many RPGs, especially jRPGs, ESPECIALLY FF, don't inspire me anymore.

That, and all the characters look like fairies, the storylines are pretty identical, the bad guys are the same, and nothing will compare to FFXI and FFXII.

You've jumped the shark, Square. Make a new property and stick with it.

[DarkMaster]

So, you don't think "Final Fantasy has been good in a LONG time", and yet, "nothing will compare to FFXI and FFXII"?

[TheGame]

Maybe he's referring to ffvi and ffvii... otherwise that makes no sense.

[Thespis721]

Yeah, sorry. I'm at work so I multitask sometimes. Like TheGame said, I meant VI and VII.

I wasn't a big fan of XI or XII. though XII was pretty for a PS2 game...

[TheSlyMoogle]

Learned their lesson with the sphere grid? What lesson would that be, exactly? That it was fuckin awesome? I am blown away that they have created an evolution of the sphere grid system, I thought it was one of the best changes they ever made with the series when FFX came out. Leveling up is standard now, it's boring, every game has leveling up, it's become completely redundant. Thank god an RPG is trying to do something more with the concept.

You're awfully quick to judge a 40 hour game from a 5 minute video of a demo given to the press.

Actually more going along the lines of what my friend Chase says. My friend who imported the PS3 version of the game, speaks fluent Japanese, and has been playing RPGs just as long as I have. The five minute video just helped me visualize his words.

The Sphere grid was a clusterfuck of stupid. Farming Lvl. 3 and Lvl. 4 keys... Yeah no thanks, I really don't need that extra 100 hp. The only thing saving face right now is apparently it has a decent story and likable characters. Final Fantasy Versus 13 is actually sounding much better as of right now.

Agreed.

I loved the sphere grid, though I wish they'd make another FF with FF7's ability system. I just like having a lot of freedom in how I develop my characters. I had Yuna learn a bunch of black mage abilities and she made Lulu seem useless. It was fun!

This...

There was no individuality in the characters when you could take them through everyone's sphere grid. Basically what makes a final fantasy game sweet was shattered as soon as you got Kimari over to Black spells, which btw didn't take long, and he entered the thing right next to ultima. Which btw is the fastest way to get Ultima for Lulu, just use a friend sphere and take her through the back door of her own part of the grid. However the same argument can be made about 7, 10 and 12. I just don't see the purpose of having all characters being able to do everything if you put enough time into it. I hated 10 with a fiery passion, and 12 wasn't any better.

This isn't just limited to the FF series, it's basically all RPGs these days. Just a useless bunch of shit packed into a story that's been done before, and a bunch of stock characters. :s Guess you can say that about pretty much anything nowadays though.

[TheGame]

There was no individuality in the characters when you could take them through everyone's sphere grid.

Sly Moogle, I couldn't disagree more lol.

I think being able to give your group whatever spells you want gives the game MORE individuality. It's not like the characters could learn each other's limit breaks (or whatever it was called in X).

I like having the freedom to make my team do whatever I want them to do. The only reason I like FF7's system more is because it had even MORE freedom. I could have had Cloud learn anything I wanted, and he could have been good at it if I took the time to do so. It made the game more replayable to try out different sets and different spell combinations.

I can't stand games where you "level" and just get the same spells every time without any customization to abilities.

[TheSlyMoogle]

Sly Moogle, I couldn't disagree more lol.

I think being able to give your group whatever spells you want gives the game MORE individuality. It's not like the characters could learn each other's limit breaks (or whatever it was called in X).

I like having the freedom to make my team do whatever I want them to do. The only reason I like FF7's system more is because it had even MORE freedom. I could have had Cloud learn anything I wanted, and he could have been good at it if I took the time to do so. It made the game more replayable to try out different sets and different spell combinations.

I can't stand games where you "level" and just get the same spells every time without any customization to abilities.


How does that make them more individual? "Oh hey I'm Yuna, I'm a black mage and a white mage." "Oh hey I'm LuLu, I'm a white mage and black mage too."

Oh so you're like the same character with different models?

Also, overdrives were what they were called. Each character had a different way to get them. Tidus had the easiest and most damaging Overdrive, and also the easiest "Ultra Overdrive" to get. Basically you attacked and you got overdrive meter.

Anyway what's the point in having a team of characters who cover their own weaknesses? Oh hey, we can all cure! Wakka, Auron and Tidus, just go out there and kill stuff because our mages aren't needed here. The only character who has a skill that's solely hers that is usable more than once every 20 battles or so, was Yuna in Summoning. And that was useful /sarcasm.

The worst part was it had a pretty cool battle system with the ability to switch characters out mid battle. They totally defeated that purpose though. What was the point in splitting the AP further, when you could power through the game with 3 characters? Plus I would still like to know whose idiotic design it was to start Kimari right by ultima so you could get it like a third into the game with a friend sphere as long as you didn't progress Kimari.

I'll agree that leveling up is a fairly old and worn out system, but in no way was sphere grid a good replacement. I'm sorry you don't like limits because they make things hard.


To talk about people who think RPGs are getting easier, here's where it started. "OH HI! I'M FFX! Not only is my story trash, my voice acting abysmal

[TheGame]

Sly I can see your point, and have a good idea of what you enjoy... but I still disagree with you.

As far as individuality goes, your definition and my definition seem to be different.. From the standpoint of playing that game anyway.

From my understanding, you think that since every character can learn any ability (minus overdrives), they lack individuality. That's my disagreement. Here's some points of why I disagree:

I. The characters are limited by their base abilities. While they can learn any spells, it's still more efficient to make the casters (Lulu, Yuna) pump up their casting ability.. And more efficient to make melee (Wakka, Auron) pump up their physical attacking ability. The Hybrid guys can be "good" at anything, but given the same amount of focus they'd still never be as good of a caster as Yuna or Lulu, and they'd never be as good of a melee as Auron and Wakka. And how many good melee-Lulus have you seen?

II. Individuality per playthrough matters to me more then any single character. If I want to play through with 3 melee, one who happens to know white magic like a paladin, and one who happens to know dark magic like a dark knight one time.. then play through with 3 casters the next time... or just play with 3 people who are good at one thing each and suck at everything else.. I just like to have that freedom. It makes the game more replayabile if it's not the same thing every time.

III. The most popular FF games feature this freedom. It's not a coincedence that FF7 is the most popular FF game of all time. It's because of the freedom that materia gave. Since the materia could be shared, when someone was booted out of your group for one reason or another, you could just buff up someone else with the abilities you learned. If you want to talk about lacking individuality character to character, you need to talk about FF7. Because Materia makes the sphere grid look extremely linear.

I don't know, I'm just simply a fan of being able to create your own strategy.

[TheSlyMoogle]

Sly I can see your point, and have a good idea of what you enjoy... but I still disagree with you.

I. The characters are limited by their base abilities. While they can learn any spells, it's still more efficient to make the casters (Lulu, Yuna) pump up their casting ability.. And more efficient to make melee (Wakka, Auron) pump up their physical attacking ability. The Hybrid guys can be "good" at anything, but given the same amount of focus they'd still never be as good of a caster as Yuna or Lulu, and they'd never be as good of a melee as Auron and Wakka. And how many good melee-Lulus have you seen?

Actually not true. If you take every character through the entire sphere grid you will have maxed all stats, except you have a choice. You can either choose to max hp or max luck, but you cannot do both because of lack of empty spheres. Every other stat maxes easily, and I believe my friend kyle told me it will max if you take each character through their own grid and 2 other character grids. Might be wrong on that point. Either way mid-way through the game you can have a lulu that hits as hard as auron and a tidus that heals as well as a yuna. I even think the characters all start with the same base stats or very small discrepancies. Yes I've seen lulu and tidus hit for the same damage, and yuna and tidus heal for the same amount.

II. Individuality per playthrough matters to me more then any single character. If I want to play through with 3 melee, one who happens to know white magic like a paladin, and one who happens to know dark magic like a dark knight one time.. then play through with 3 casters the next time... or just play with 3 people who are good at one thing each and suck at everything else.. I just like to have that freedom. It makes the game more replayabile if it's not the same thing every time.

Meh I think games are more replayable with limits. Take for instance the single character challenges on some of the older FF games. Challenging yourself to use the worst characters, or just replaying the game each time with different teams. FFX kinda killed that. Single characters could run through everyone's grid so no big deal. Back in the day we created reasons to run through the game again. Usually just because it was awesome.

III. The most popular FF games feature this freedom. It's not a coincedence that FF7 is the most popular FF game of all time. It's because of the freedom that materia gave. Since the materia could be shared, when someone was booted out of your group for one reason or another, you could just buff up someone else with the abilities you learned. If you want to talk about lacking individuality character to character, you need to talk about FF7. Because Materia makes the sphere grid look extremely linear.

I don't know, I'm just simply a fan of being able to create your own strategy.

FF7 had enough character personality to keep the characters individual. Plus with the number of times characters left your party or you were forced to use characters that weren't your regulars, it was necessary. Either way FF7 had a complex leveling system for you materia. It was a pretty cool way to do things.

FFX on the other hand just had no personality behind its characters. I'm struggling to remember characters like rikku and kimari, even auron got swept back. Then they could all have each other's skills? Nah no thanks.

And still that's no excuse. Even with characters with predetermined skills and abilities you still had your own strategy, everyone did.

And it doesn't have to be so hard strict either. In FF6 everyone could learn the same spells, but everyone had different abilities and even limit breaks (Yes FF6 had them, they were rare but they were called desperation attacks.) For example only locke could steal and only celes could absorb magic. Individuality yet still the customization you seek. Stuff like this can be done.

[TheGame]

Actually not true. If you take every character through the entire sphere grid you will have maxed all stats, except you have a choice. You can either choose to max hp or max luck, but you cannot do both because of lack of empty spheres. Every other stat maxes easily, and I believe my friend kyle told me it will max if you take each character through their own grid and 2 other character grids. Might be wrong on that point. Either way mid-way through the game you can have a lulu that hits as hard as auron and a tidus that heals as well as a yuna. I even think the characters all start with the same base stats or very small discrepancies. Yes I've seen lulu and tidus hit for the same damage, and yuna and tidus heal for the same amount.


This is simply false. If you gave Auron all the melee buffs on the grid, and gave lulu all the same buffs on the grid on another playthrugh, Auron would be stronger. Period.

Meh I think games are more replayable with limits. Take for instance the single character challenges on some of the older FF games. Challenging yourself to use the worst characters, or just replaying the game each time with different teams. FFX kinda killed that. Single characters could run through everyone's grid so no big deal. Back in the day we created reasons to run through the game again. Usually just because it was awesome.

That's just a difference in taste. I can't argue with that but to say that FFX is about as replayable as an RPG can get imo. Just like FF7, just because everyone can learn everyone else's abilities it doesn't mean that you can't change up the strategy.

FF7 had enough character personality to keep the characters individual. Plus with the number of times characters left your party or you were forced to use characters that weren't your regulars, it was necessary. Either way FF7 had a complex leveling system for you materia. It was a pretty cool way to do things.

And? Personality has nothing to do with the leveling system. FF7 had NO individuality of characters in groups compared to FFX. Not only could you learn everyone else's abilities, you could TAKE all of their abilities and move them around whenever you wanted. If we're comparing FFX and FF7, and you want a game with some limitations.. then you want FFX.

I'm sorry you didn't like the FFX story... I enjoyed it more then FF7's personally. But tossing character development and our personal bias towards the game stories out... The fact is that FFX had more individuality then FF7. I haven't played FF6, but from how you make it sound, FFX is the same.

[TheSlyMoogle]

Err... Seeing as weapons only had slot bonuses that you could control, as well as armor, and the fact that Auron and Lulu's stats could be exactly the same, they would both hit for the same amount of damage. I'm sorry you are wrong. Besides damage caps out at 9999 as always unless you do a nifty overdrive as they were allowed to break damage caps, and speaking in that case Lulu's was top tier as you could rig it to always cast ultima and you can always get it to cast 7 times if you're awesome. 7 ultima's > Auron's stupid overdrive. AT THE END OF THE DAY THEY HIT FOR 9999 EACH! SAME FUCKING PERSON IS SAME FUCKING PERSON!

Definition.

in·di·vid·u·al·i·ty (nd-vj-l-t)
n. pl. in·di·vid·u·al·i·ties
1.
a. The aggregate of qualities and characteristics that distinguish one person or thing from others; character: choices that were intended to express his individuality; monotonous sphere grids lacking in individuality.
b. An individual or distinguishing feature.
2. The quality or state of being individual; singularity: She was so absorbed by the sphere grid that she lost all sense of individuality.

I'm done with the argument but it leaves me to believe that you probably didn't play FFX more than once all the way through, or if you even finished it once.

Plus the majority of people you talk to who have played every FF game will tell you that a) FFX was garbage in terms of story and characters, and b) sphere grid sucked. Even people who loved FFX didn't like the sphere grid.

Obviously no one else is reading this so I dunno why I continue posting anyway.

[Thespis721]

I'm reading it. And loving it.

[DarkMaster]

Developers take a chance at ingenuity and change a leveling system by adding something like the sphere grid and people bitch because it strays too far from the standard formula.

Developers play it safe and decide not to change the standard formula, and people bitch because it's not different enough and does nothing new.


Here's the moral of the story: gamers fuckin bitch about everything.

It sure is easy to complain about things when you don't have the responsibility of redefining multi-million dollar franchises. I guess we can just be thankful that we are not game developers and don't have to put up with our own bullshit.

[TheGame]

Err... Seeing as weapons only had slot bonuses that you could control, as well as armor, and the fact that Auron and Lulu's stats could be exactly the same, they would both hit for the same amount of damage. I'm sorry you are wrong. Besides damage caps out at 9999 as always unless you do a nifty overdrive as they were allowed to break damage caps, and speaking in that case Lulu's was top tier as you could rig it to always cast ultima and you can always get it to cast 7 times if you're awesome. 7 ultima's > Auron's stupid overdrive. AT THE END OF THE DAY THEY HIT FOR 9999 EACH! SAME FUCKING PERSON IS SAME FUCKING PERSON!

Once again, FALSE.

First off, I'm making the assumption we're talking about a NORMAL play through of the game. Not some extreme grind session. You do not have to hit for 9999 damage to beat that game.. if you're just playing through as normal, it is more advantagious to give auron melee buffs and Lulu magic buffs. And even if they were both hitting for 9999 damage it would still be more advantagious to give auron melee buffs because his overdrives are built for melee... and Lulu's are built for casting.

So no, they're not the "same fucking person", and Auron does in fact benifit more from melee buffs.

Definition.

in·di·vid·u·al·i·ty (nd-vj-l-t)
n. pl. in·di·vid·u·al·i·ties
1.
a. The aggregate of qualities and characteristics that distinguish one person or thing from others; character: choices that were intended to express his individuality; monotonous sphere grids lacking in individuality.
b. An individual or distinguishing feature.
2. The quality or state of being individual; singularity: She was so absorbed by the sphere grid that she lost all sense of individuality.

You could say it was absorbed by Anima in FF7. I just LOVE how you want to avoid that subject.

I'm done with the argument but it leaves me to believe that you probably didn't play FFX more than once all the way through, or if you even finished it once.

2 hand a half times.

Plus the majority of people you talk to who have played every FF game will tell you that a) FFX was garbage in terms of story and characters, and b) sphere grid sucked. Even people who loved FFX didn't like the sphere grid.

And I'm not discussing the story or characters, I'm discussing the sphere grid.

Obviously no one else is reading this so I dunno why I continue posting anyway.

Thespis is. :)

But we can stop. You haven't proven your point about the sphere grid, other then to say that you like anima more because you think the characters in FF7 have more personality.. even though they have less abilities that seperate themselves from each other then FFX.

You know what would have hurt FFX's individuality more? If every activated node on the sphere grid could be shared and distributed among any characters in your party at any point in the game.. That's what Anima is in FF7.

-EDIT-

By the way, don't get me wrong.. I like FF7's Anima system more then the sphere grid. It's Sly who's trying to put the freedom of the games in a bad light.. not me. I like FFX's story more, because I feel that the main characters are better and more complex, as are the enemies.. Sephiroth is the most over rated bad guy in gaming history imo. But I did like being able to switch up how my team's abilities worked mid game.

[Thespis721]

Developers take a chance at ingenuity and change a leveling system by adding something like the sphere grid and people bitch because it strays too far from the standard formula.

Developers play it safe and decide not to change the standard formula, and people bitch because it's not different enough and does nothing new.


Here's the moral of the story: gamers fuckin bitch about everything.

It sure is easy to complain about things when you don't have the responsibility of redefining multi-million dollar franchises. I guess we can just be thankful that we are not game developers and don't have to put up with our own bullshit.

First off, you're right. In this internet laden world, you'll never be able to please everybody. There will always be someone on the internet bitching.

However, when I have a problem is when developers take parts that are working and replacing them with bad ideas that don't work out. But that's the risks you take when you try to change things up? I prefer for them to mix things up and take changes. However, I'd love it if they were given the room to fail, which they aren't, because they are multi-million dollar franchises.

When all is said and done, if you want something really innovative, you'll most likely have to go to a new IP then one that has been around since the days of NES.

[TheGame]

I agree with Thespis..

Though I do like that the multi million dollar franchises are still trying to be innovative. The thing that comes to mind to me is the MGS series. MGS 1-4 are all very high rated, but they're also very different from one another. But the difference is that MGS series took pretty much everything from the previous game, and added too it in an innovative way.

Final Fantasy tries to do that, but some people simply don't like it. But it doesn't stop the games from being highly rated and from selling millions. Some people want more nostalgia, but SE is trying to make a new innovative product that appeals to people who are new to the series, while not trying to "replace" that old game that older fans of the series have nostalgia for.

[TheSlyMoogle]

Once again, FALSE.

First off, I'm making the assumption we're talking about a NORMAL play through of the game. Not some extreme grind session. You do not have to hit for 9999 damage to beat that game.. if you're just playing through as normal, it is more advantagious to give auron melee buffs and Lulu magic buffs. And even if they were both hitting for 9999 damage it would still be more advantagious to give auron melee buffs because his overdrives are built for melee... and Lulu's are built for casting.

So no, they're not the "same fucking person", and Auron does in fact benifit more from melee buffs.


BUT WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT A NORMAL PLAYTHROUGH!

At least not in your discussion. You said you liked having your characters going through other characters sphere grids?

Well that's not a normal playthrough. If you don't go farm that one cave with all the malboros or if you don't farm that monster fighter place, you don't get level 3 or 4 keys (Well maybe a couple) and you need those to get to the places on the sphere grid to even complete your own character's grid. In a normal playthrough yes, you have restrictions on characters. There's some wonky things you can do with friend spheres though, but other than that then FFX in a normal play through is just as restricted as an RPG where you level up and gain skills. In fact it's the exact same thing at that point, just takes more grinding actually and a ridiculous "oh hey, I just found one of the few enemies in the game who drops level 2 keys, better see how many of those I need to progress my characters in the sphere grid." Which is just silly, btw, that you should have to ever worry about level progression because you can't find a fucking level 2 key.

Also as far as overdrives go, they're not stat based. The only things that are stat based in the game are physical attacks and magic attacks. The same formula that FF games have been using since the first game (Well slightly modified.)

Overdrive damage is calculated with a formula based on the monster's stats and something else, maybe some base figure for the overdrive itself. Don't exactly remember, but it allowed most overdrives of the highest level to break the 9999 damage cap. The only difference was Lulu's which was magic based in that you cast multiples of the spells, and Yuna's which was basically summoning a monster with full overdrive gauge.

And where did you get Anima system in FF7? It's materia. And for the record I didn't really like FF7 past story and characters.

We will now rank my favorite FF games:

01. Final Fantasy Tactics
02. Final Fantasy 6
03. Final Fantasy 4 (2 in the US)
05. Final Fantasy 5
06. Final Fantasy 8
07. Final Fantasy 9
08. Final Fantasy 1
09. Final Fantasy 2
10. Final Fantasy 3

Notice how 7 and 10 aren't on that list. However 7 would be next.

But in a realm of good games 10 just didn't cut it for me in any way shape or form.

[TheGame]

BUT WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT A NORMAL PLAYTHROUGH!

At least not in your discussion. You said you liked having your characters going through other characters sphere grids?

I gave Yuna black magic on my first ever playthrough of the game. That was a normal playthrough, however Yuna was already built to handle any magic, so it never hurt. On future playthroughs, whenever I had the chance to move Yuna through Lulu's grid, or the chance to have her take any spells from Lulu's grid, I'd do it.

And I'll agree with you that farming keys sucks.

Also as far as overdrives go, they're not stat based. The only things that are stat based in the game are physical attacks and magic attacks. The same formula that FF games have been using since the first game (Well slightly modified.)

Overdrive damage is calculated with a formula based on the monster's stats and something else, maybe some base figure for the overdrive itself. Don't exactly remember, but it allowed most overdrives of the highest level to break the 9999 damage cap. The only difference was Lulu's which was magic based in that you cast multiples of the spells, and Yuna's which was basically summoning a monster with full overdrive gauge.

Wakka also had an overdrive where you could do normal melee hits multiple times. Auron had something similar. If you're capped in damage, the thing that makes the difference is multiple hit overdrives. That's why Lulu's the only person built for black magic, because she's the only person with a multiple hit overdrive for magic.. And that's why she can't be as strong as Wakka or Auron, because their overdrives are melee based.

I haven't tried a melee Lulu, so I can't speak for if the overdrives are not stat based. If a melee Lulu still overdrives just as strong as a completly magic buffed Lulu with her spells, then you're right..

And where did you get Anima system in FF7? It's materia. And for the record I didn't really like FF7 past story and characters.

Sorry, I meant materia... I don't even know where I got anima from lmao.

We will now rank my favorite FF games:

01. Final Fantasy Tactics
02. Final Fantasy 6
03. Final Fantasy 4 (2 in the US)
05. Final Fantasy 5
06. Final Fantasy 8
07. Final Fantasy 9
08. Final Fantasy 1
09. Final Fantasy 2
10. Final Fantasy 3

Notice how 7 and 10 aren't on that list. However 7 would be next.

But in a realm of good games 10 just didn't cut it for me in any way shape or form.

And guess whiich two FF games are #1 and #2 sold of all time? And 12 is somewhere in the mix for #3-5 with FF8 and 9. Not that this discredits your arguement any, but it must be annoying that all the FFs in the series that you don't like seem to be the most mainsteam ones.. Unfortunately SE has to look at things with more sales as "working", and things with less sales as "not working"... and being innovative about the leveling system, and allowing freedom to give spells to anyone has "worked" as far as sales go.

So I'd expect more of the same :(

[BreakABone]

If you want to listen to what is essentially a 2 hour, pretty spoilerfree review/discussion on the game from RPG fans.

http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/podcast.the1upnetwork.com/flat/Retronauts/ATB022510.mp3

Jeremy Parish, Kat Bailey, Christian Nutt, and Chris Kohler debate the merits of the next Final Fantasy game in the most spoiler-free way possible -- but not before nearly coming to blows over the merits of Xenoblade.

(57.7 MB) - Length: 2:06:09

[BreakABone]

So reviews are starting to pour in for the game, and right now they are mixed.

I mean sure they are averaging 82% (which means they are still considered "good" by GT's standards :P) but you have reviews from perfect scores, to those in the 50s/70s range so it really is a mixed bag.

The two biggest complaints/points of discussion are of course the battle system and the structure of the game

http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/ps3/finalfantasy13

[Bond]

I've been struggling as to if I should purchase FFXIII or Mass Effect 2 for spring break. I know both are going to be great games, but I think the fact that a little part of me has been dying ever since I played my last Final Fantasy game (IX), has pushed me to probably go with FFXIII.

[Fox 6]

I've been struggling as to if I should purchase FFXIII or Mass Effect 2 for spring break. I know both are going to be great games, but I think the fact that a little part of me has been dying ever since I played my last Final Fantasy game (IX), has pushed me to probably go with FFXIII.

Mass Effect 2 or I will disown you.

[Typhoid]

Mass Effect 2.
Hands down.
I (backhandedly, through a friend, since I can't really play games right now) beat that game a couple days ago - and it fucked me in the face. In a good way.
I was so immersed in the game by the end of it, I actually had a brain melting "What the fuck is going on, holy shit what is that, oh my god - what the fuck" moment.

[BreakABone]

Not to knock it, but how do you folks know FF 13 won't afford him equal joy since almost certain none of us here have played it yet.

Though yeah, would lean towards Mass Effect 2 as well. Shorter so probably easier to beat.

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[TheGame]

I wish there were a way to play it with Japanese voices and subtitles. Hopefully there is a way. lol

But anyway, even though the reviews are questionable, the game still looks very appealing to me. The battle system looks like the most interesting part. It looks like you can mix it up a lot with the same group to keep things kind of interesting while grinding.

[Bond]

I am in quite the quandary right now. I intentionally stayed away from most information / media about this game because I didn't want to be spoiled by anything, but the more I am reading the more and more I am disappointed in the direction that this FF iteration took. I was really hoping for a traditional FF to cure my hunger, but I am questioning as to whether or not this is it?

[DarkMaster]

If you're looking for a traditional RPG I can assure you Mass Effect 2 is not it, despite being a good game.

[TheSlyMoogle]

I can also assure you that this FF game is not it either.

Instead join me as I replay all the metroid games!

[TheGame]

So when is SE going to make RPGs for PSP?? :(

[Vampyr]

So when is SE going to make RPGs for PSP?? :(

I feel like the PSP is a dying product.

[DarkMaster]

You can buy PSOne RPGs on the PSN and play them on your PSP. Seems pretty sweet.

[Bond]

*Potential Spoilers, but not really*


So, from what I have been reading, the game stays linear until about the midway point, and then the world opens up. I suppose this is not soo bad, and it actually might make one appreciate the open world parts more, but I'm still not quite sold.

[DarkMaster]

*Potential Spoilers, but not really*


So, from what I have been reading, the game stays linear until about the midway point, and then the world opens up. I suppose this is not soo bad, and it actually might make one appreciate the open world parts more, but I'm still not quite sold.
Every single Final Fantasy, and pretty much every JRPG, is like that. People have grown completely insane since the last major Final Fantasy release and seem to have forgotten that. And in the context of FFXIII's story it makes even more sense to use this design, but I won't spoil that for you.

[BreakABone]

Every single Final Fantasy, and pretty much every JRPG, is like that. People have grown completely insane since the last major Final Fantasy release and seem to have forgotten that. And in the context of FFXIII's story it makes even more sense to use this design, but I won't spoil that for you.

I know my opinion isn't valid to most on RPGs, I just don't play them that much, but even I know this isn't true.

There's a difference between being set on a path and having a set path. In most RPGs, you must explore areas in certain orders, yes, but you get freedom to tackle it at your own pace and maybe engage in some sidequests/mini-games.

FF 13 is not like that at all, you are pretty much on a direct line (Its pretty much a race down a straight path) and while it does interesting things from a story point in that regard, it limits the freedom.

And without spoiling too much, from what I hear, when it does open up, it is just one central city that kind of acts like a hub for the rest of the areas.

I'm not saying it can't work, but it took some risks with the formula, maybe it pays off.

[Bond]

Every single Final Fantasy, and pretty much every JRPG, is like that. People have grown completely insane since the last major Final Fantasy release and seem to have forgotten that. And in the context of FFXIII's story it makes even more sense to use this design, but I won't spoil that for you.
Thanks for the non-spoilers. :)

I loved FF7-9, but don't you have to say FF13 at least sounds much more linear than those previous three iterations?

[DarkMaster]

Definitely sounds more linear than FF7-9. Have you played FFX? It's linear as hell, it's also awesome. Uncharted 2 is linear and it's amazing. Most story driven games are linear. Most games in general are linear. Seems like linearity is the new thing to pick on in games. A lot of people complained that FFXII was too open world, and now they're shocked that FFXIII is linear. Gamers are generally full of shit, lets be honest here. Play it for yourself, man. Rent it.

[BreakABone]

Definitely sounds more linear than FF7-9. Have you played FFX? It's linear as hell, it's also awesome. Uncharted 2 is linear and it's amazing. Most story driven games are linear. Most games in general are linear. Seems like linearity is the new thing to pick on in games. A lot of people complained that FFXII was too open world, and now they're shocked that FFXIII is linear. Gamers are generally full of shit, lets be honest here. Play it for yourself, man. Rent it.

I completely agree.

I never got when linearity became a bad word in gaming. People actually picked on Uncharted 2 for being too linear, but it was an AMAZING experience, and they could do that because it was linear.

Like all things in life, choices have their good and bad things. FF 13 chooses to be linear helps them to focus on the pacing of the game, the character development and the battle system. But it also gets rid of the feeling of exploration and freedom that people expect from RPGs.

On the other hand, if a game is too open world, it can quickly become a jumble mess. GTA IV was like that for me as you would end up with 50 missions to tackle at first with no real idea of which would progress you further in the story. Then you complete one mission that would block off 10 more, and it becomes an exercise in patience.

Long rant short, linearity doesn't make a bad game. We grew up on linear games, hell two of my favorite franchises made their bread and butter on getting from point A to point B as best as possible.

[Bond]

Definitely sounds more linear than FF7-9. Have you played FFX? It's linear as hell, it's also awesome. Uncharted 2 is linear and it's amazing. Most story driven games are linear. Most games in general are linear. Seems like linearity is the new thing to pick on in games. A lot of people complained that FFXII was too open world, and now they're shocked that FFXIII is linear. Gamers are generally full of shit, lets be honest here. Play it for yourself, man. Rent it.
I agree. I think I just need to stop trying to compare FF13 to FF7-9, and try to appreciate it independently for what it is...

[TheGame]

I agree. I think I just need to stop trying to compare FF13 to FF7-9, and try to appreciate it independently for what it is...

Yeah, that's the best thing to do. From my understanding FF8-12 are all completly different. If you're looking for the same experience as an older game, you're not going to find it in the final fantasy series.

Heck, even FFXIV (the new MMORPG coming this year) looks incredibly different from FFXI, or any MMORPG that's ever been done before really. (No leveling up? Does this really count as a MMORPG??) You almost have to let go of the idea of the "direct sequal" in the FF series. FFXV might look and play like a FPS for all we know.

[Typhoid]

I know my opinion isn't valid to most on RPGs, I just don't play them that much, but even I know this isn't true.

Babsy, most FF games are linear up to a certain point. The only ones that haven't been are the online ones, and 12 - and even 12 was really restricted up until a specific point when you can explore the entire world and do all of the side quests.

[TheGame]

Babsy, most FF games are linear up to a certain point. The only ones that haven't been are the online ones, and 12 - and even 12 was really restricted up until a specific point when you can explore the entire world and do all of the side quests.

This is true.

The big difference between the older ones and the new ones is that you got the "free roaming" world map in the older ones. But that world map does not open up until you've gotten through a liner part of the game that in most cases takes hours to complete.

And, I think the zoomed out, free-roaming world map.. while fun.. is kinda out dated. I doubt any new FF games would implement it.

[BreakABone]

Babsy, most FF games are linear up to a certain point. The only ones that haven't been are the online ones, and 12 - and even 12 was really restricted up until a specific point when you can explore the entire world and do all of the side quests.
Okay, I think need to clarify my point, I know that older FFs are linear in structure to get the plot rolling, most RPGs are, but you folks don't understand just HOW linear FF 13 is, the game progress quite literally down a straight,singular path.

There are VERY minor turn offs where you might find an item, but for the most part, its a straight line.

Where in other games, you have a clear path, but you aren't really forced straight down it.

And even when this "opens" up, its only one area from what I know.

This is true.

The big difference between the older ones and the new ones is that you got the "free roaming" world map in the older ones. But that world map does not open up until you've gotten through a liner part of the game that in most cases takes hours to complete.

And, I think the zoomed out, free-roaming world map.. while fun.. is kinda out dated. I doubt any new FF games would implement it.

I don't think the free-roaming world map is out of date, Mass Effect still uses something like it.

[TheGame]

Okay, I think need to clarify my point, I know that older FFs are linear in structure to get the plot rolling, most RPGs are, but you folks don't understand just HOW linear FF 13 is, the game progress quite literally down a straight,singular path.

There are VERY minor turn offs where you might find an item, but for the most part, its a straight line.

Where in other games, you have a clear path, but you aren't really forced straight down it.

And even when this "opens" up, its only one area from what I know.

Mmm, from the reviews I've seen, it's linear longer then most FF games, but it does eventually open up. IGN claims that 3/4 of the first 25 to 30 hours of the game is linear.. so that's 20ish hours of being linear before it gets to the point where the game opens up.

"Of course, players that aren't aware of Final Fantasy XIII's open-world conclusion might be much less enthusiastic, especially if they believe that the entire game is completely linear. "- IGN

I don't think the free-roaming world map is out of date, Mass Effect still uses something like it.

I think it is out-dated, how it was pulled off before anyway. I could see a spaceship or sometype of flying vehicle going across a world map.. but the overhead map with a big headed version pf your character walking cross a landscape town to town just won't have the same effect that it used to.

I'm sure a Final Fantasy 7 remake that attempted to be on the same visual level as even FFX (yes, a last gen game) would probably end up scrapping the world map, or they'd create a new system that wouldn't resemble the old game at all... Or it'd just have a unrealistic vibe to it, which isn't bad sometimes.

[Typhoid]

Even if it is super linear, so what?
That doesn't mean it will be a bad game or a terrible experience.

[DarkMaster]

I'd like to recommend reading the 1up review. I almost never read reviews and don't really care about scores, but it looked short and concise so I thought I'd give it a go for fun. Lots of really interesting things brought up. Worth a read.

[BreakABone]

Even if it is super linear, so what?
That doesn't mean it will be a bad game or a terrible experience.

Don't get me wrong, I do not equate linearity with quality.

As a matter of fact, I prefer linear experiences like Uncharted or new Super Mario Bros.

I'm just pointing out what this game is in comparison to others, unless not talking to me.

[Typhoid]

I'm debating whether or not I should get this game when it comes out on Tuesday.

[Bond]

I took the plunge and pre-ordered FFXIII on Amazon earlier today. I will be excited to see what we think of the game once it is released.

[TheSlyMoogle]

Oh I can't find it right now, but about 2 weeks ago I read an article, that basically explained why they're not doing a graphical remake of FF7. Basically the article explained that in order to profit from it at all they would have to be able to complete the remake in less than a year, and apparently at this time that is just impossible. However if in the future there was any possibility, like if technology changed, then maybe. I would say maybe for some big anniversary or something. If square can hang on another 15+ years. Who knows? If I find the article I'll post it. I mean I don't like FF7 that much, but I would like to see it redone graphically. Compared to 8 and 9 the visuals make it almost unplayable to me these days.

[TheGame]

Looks like IGN gave FFXII a 8.9, also citing how linear it is and saying how it's much different then the other games in the series. The big thing that still sells it for me, is that all the reviews generally say that the story is good.

I'll be picking this one up friday.