Fox News

[TheGame]

I'm just curious what your opinions are on this subject. Are they really 'fair and balanced'? Or does the network support the republican/conservative point of view and lie about being 'fair and balanced'?

[TheGame]

This poll should be moved to happy hour... my bad.

[Bond]

Fox (the parent company) supports making a profit. They saw an opening in the lack of conservative cable news channels, so they made one and profited.

[Vampyr]

The options are confusing. Do you mean "prime time shows" as in sitcoms/dramas, or whatever late night news they have?

If so, I think their prime time dramas are either neutral or actually more liberal. They have some of my favorite shows on during prime time - House and Fringe. But I really hate their news - obviously conservatively biased. The other stations do have a bit of a liberal bias, but I feel like Fox is much more so towards republican than the others are towards democrats.

[Teuthida]

Absolutely.

I was thinking about making another thread seeing what everyone here uses for their news source. I very rarely watch the news, but when I do I watch Al Jazeera or listen to BBC World News. I much prefer pure news, boring as it may sometimes be, to the petty squabbling of pundits.

[TheGame]

Prime time shows are Glen Beck, Hannity, and O'reily. Shows that are more based on Opinion. I should have worded it as "Opinion shows" or something.. haha. And news shows would be more like.. the shows that are not supposed to have any bias and just tells the news 'objectively'.

[BreakABone]

I actually have no problem with Fox itself (except the morning weathermen just looks like a douche, who wears a polo on the news?), but Fox News the channel can be a bit much at times.

Granted, most of what I see of Fox News is through The Daily Show so its out to make the channel look bad, but if they double talk so damn much...

Not to say many of the other news organizations are much better.

[Swan]

Only FOX news report I ever saw was this.

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EPIC LULZ

[Professor S]

I'd say on the whole FoxNews definitely sees the world through a conservative perspective, making them Republican based by default but I wouldn't call them a "Republican voice" per se. Their news programs can be very objective, though, depending on which newscaster you speak to. Neil Cavuto is very conservative in how he reports the news, but Shepherd Smith tends to be moderate and objective.

Not unlike MSNBC, except from the opposite political perspective.

That gives me an idea for a poll...

[KillerGremlin]

Fox News Chicago has a conservative twist more often than not...

As far as politics go, both MSNBC and Fox feed into this idiotic two-party system we have, rather than focusing on the actual issues at hand. I stopped watching the news with the exception of the non-political stories that occasionally grace CNN and capture my attention (plus Larry King when he has an interesting guest).

I feel like TV-news is all about entertainment, frills, and appealing to the lowest common denominator. I'll be cynical and say it: the news provides very little in the way of intellectualism. The news puts on a facade of political interest and serious political discussion, but it is still appealing to the masses who watch American Idol and America's Got Talent. The truth is real issues are scary and challenging; they call morals and philosophy and history into discussion. You cannot discuss these things in a serious manner while running boner-pill and McDonalds commercials during breaks.

PBS has a good news program. The Internet has some good news outlets. The rest of it is just a circus...part of the entertainment industry. The fact that we are concerned over a CORPORATION'S objectivity is a little discerning (FOX, MSNBC, these are corporations for cripes sake). I hope everyone here has the wisdom to realize there is no such thing as objectivity, especially when dealing with the almighty $$$.

[KillerGremlin]

I want to clarify, I don't blame the people at NBC or FOX for doing what they do. In fact I see the news from time to time as I channel surf or as the roommate or GF watch it. I just don't go out of my way to watch it unless I am napping or am bored or am catching Sports/The Weather.

My issues is when people align their TV watching with their political beliefs. If you are a Republican that doesn't mean you can only watch FOX or that you need to believe or support everything that comes from FOX. In fact, I would hope that most intelligent people (Republic/Democrat/Independent/Whatever) would realize that no single party can possibly represent all their beliefs! Likewise, no single news source or news personality could possibly be an accurate representation of what you believe in. Heck, I think Bill O'Reilly is batshit insane but I still agree with him from time to time. The news shouldn't have to be objective, the viewer should.

[Professor S]

In the end, I think if you rely on only one news source you do yourself a disservice. In the end we are al responsible for our own education and knowledge creation.

Journalism as it is traditionally defined has long since died. Now it's up to us to define what is or is not true.

[Typhoid]

News nowadays (At least in the USA for the mostpart) is highly, highly objective, as it depends on who owns the company, and how well the ratings are doing. It's not about news anymore, it's about money.

[BreakABone]

News nowadays (At least in the USA for the mostpart) is highly, highly objective, as it depends on who owns the company, and how well the ratings are doing. It's not about news anymore, it's about money.


Wouldn't that mean its subjective? :lolz: :lol:

[Typhoid]

I'm on painkillers, cut me some slack.

[Professor S]

One interesting thing I've observed:

No one really voted on the MSNBC poll citing that they don't watch it enough to tell... yet there are a decent amount of votes on the FoxNews poll and almost all are for the negative option. So do we have a large group of dedicated FoxNews viewers, who have a predominantly negative view of the channel, in Gametavern? Really?

Or are some of us just going along for the ride...

[Vampyr]

I had a roommate a couple of semesters ago who had it on every morning/evening.

I would like to mention, though, that my local Fox News channel is very unbiased.

[Professor S]

I had a roommate a couple of semesters ago who had it on every morning/evening.

I would like to mention, though, that my local Fox News channel is very unbiased.

Local news is local news. Being in Philadelphia, though, we feed anchors over to the cable news channel and I've seen objective local anchors turn into conservative pundits overnight once they go national.

[Typhoid]

No one really voted on the MSNBC poll citing that they don't watch it enough to tell... yet there are a decent amount of votes on the FoxNews poll and almost all are for the negative option. So do we have a large group of dedicated FoxNews viewers, who have a predominantly negative view of the channel, in Gametavern? Really?

I think you're looking too much into it.
I don't watch Fox News, yet I know that it is biased towards the conservative side - heavily biased.

Yet I know very little about MSNBC, largely because nobody complains regularly about its motives and blatant biased reports.

I'd assume its much of the same. People who voted against don't watch it, they just don't like it.

[Teuthida]

Cool news site:

http://newsmap.jp/

Organizes news by color (category) and size (number of outlets reporting on it) from all over the world.

[TheGame]

So do we have a large group of dedicated FoxNews viewers, who have a predominantly negative view of the channel, in Gametavern? Really?

Haha, the poll didn't asked if they are "dedicated FoXNews viewers", it just asked if Fox has a bias. Fox and MSNBC aren't the only news outlets.

I think youtube is riddled with clips from Fox News since they're opinion shows get so crazy, and go against what most of america believes, and their news shows are so painfully bias that its funny to look at. While MSNBC is a real news outlet and it's not interesting enough to mock on youtube as much.

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I guess they're the outlet people love to hate.

[Professor S]

Haha, the poll didn't asked if they are "dedicated FoXNews viewers", it just asked if Fox has a bias. Fox and MSNBC aren't the only news outlets.

Game, if you had included the sentence previous to the one you quoted you would see the reason for my question. Please don;t take my comments out of context. (and I say this with full knwoledge you'll likely ramble on in response with some reason why the context wasn't important or that sentence added nothing)

I think youtube is riddled with clips from Fox News since they're opinion shows get so crazy, and go against what most of america believes, and their news shows are so painfully bias that its funny to look at. While MSNBC is a real news outlet and it's not interesting enough to mock on youtube as much.

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I guess they're the outlet people love to hate.

It could also be that people who post the ones you've seen share the same doublestandard when it comes the right and left news reporting. And if most of America is soooo against conservative values, why does Fox continually destroy MSNBC in the ratings? Do only conservatives watch cable news? I think your assumptions are a bit unrealistic...

Additonally, I can easily find examples of crazy MSNBC youtube clips showing "craziness" on their opinion shows, just watch any Olberman rant. I gues it's a matter of perspective as to what "crazy" is, but bias can be measured and isn't subject to subjectivity.

[Jason1]

I'll agree with Vamp on this one, Fox news if obviously geared toward republicans, but their primetime lineup no so much, I mean Family Guy is pretty liberal...

[TheGame]

Additonally, I can easily find examples of crazy MSNBC youtube clips showing "craziness" on their opinion shows, just watch any Olberman rant. I gues it's a matter of perspective as to what "crazy" is, but bias can be measured and isn't subject to subjectivity.

I'm sure you can find plenty of crazy clips on their opinion shows, however you're not going to find as much obviously slanted news clips as Fox. Like the one I posted. A fox reporter sees no hands raised for Mccain (Well, except his own), and everyone's hand raised for Obama.. and that looks like an even split to him... well "a little heavier towards Obama".

While MSNBC reporter would have just said what it was... a room that's full of Obama supporters.

Game, if you had included the sentence previous to the one you quoted you would see the reason for my question. Please don;t take my comments out of context. (and I say this with full knwoledge you'll likely ramble on in response with some reason why the context wasn't important or that sentence added nothing)

My reply wasn't out of context, unless I misunderstood your point. :) I was just pointing out that you don't have to be a veiwer of Fox news to have a negative opinion about it because they're constantly mocked through other sources, mainly youtube.

[Professor S]

My reply wasn't out of context, unless I misunderstood your point. :) .

Game, if I had a nickel for every time I "misunderstood" your point...

[Teuthida]

Clarification of what is and isn't news on Fox News:

<table style='font:11px arial; color:#333; background-color:#f5f5f5' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='360' height='353'><tbody><tr style='background-color:#e5e5e5' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px 1px 0px 5px;'><a target='_blank' style='color:#333; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com'>The Daily Show With Jon Stewart</a></td><td style='padding:2px 5px 0px 5px; text-align:right; font-weight:bold;'>Mon - Thurs 11p / 10c</td></tr><tr style='height:14px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px 1px 0px 5px;' colspan='2'<a target='_blank' style='color:#333; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-october-29-2009/for-fox-sake-'>For Fox Sake!<a></td></tr><tr style='height:14px; background-color:#353535' valign='middle'><td colspan='2' style='padding:2px 5px 0px 5px; width:360px; overflow:hidden; text-align:right'><a target='_blank' style='color:#96deff; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/'>www.thedailyshow.com</a></td></tr><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><embed style='display:block' src='http://media.mtvnservices.com/mgid:cms:item:comedycentral.com:253738' width='360' height='301' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' wmode='window' allowFullscreen='true' flashvars='autoPlay=false' allowscriptaccess='always' allownetworking='all' bgcolor='#000000'></embed></td></tr><tr style='height:18px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><table style='margin:0px; text-align:center' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='100%' height='100%'><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes'>Daily Show<br/> Full Episodes</a></td><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.indecisionforever.com'>Political Humor</a></td><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/videos/tag/health'>Health Care Crisis</a></td></tr></table></td></tr></tbody></table>

And touches on MSNBC at the end.

[thatmariolover]

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Citing no sources and using old footage to back his claim, Hannity estimates that 20,000-45,000 people attended a Fox-promoted GOP health care reform protest.

[TheGame]

Haha, still waiting for Prof to post some fake news from MSNBC.

[Professor S]

I didn't post any because I didn't look for any, nor will I (I caved in, see the edit below). It's irrelevant to the core of the discussion. The argument has never been a pissing contest between who is more biased as they are both VERY biased... it's about the recognition of bias, which no one seems to want to do when it comes to MSNBC, or they do so reluctantly, but they immediately jump on FoxNews as if they invented and are the sole proprietor of bias. It's about hipocrisy, not which violator violated more than the other.

And in an argument involving bias, I find sourcing The Daily Show for evidence to be hilariously ironic.

EDIT: Out of curiosity I googled "msnbc lies" and found a few items, but once again, it's off topic. I'd recommend it for anyone who is reading this thread with an open mind and is interested in comparing bias. To me comparing the level of bias of FoxNews and MSNBC is like comparing the level of genocide of Hitler and Stalin. The answer is meaningless due to the severity of crimes on both sides.

[TheGame]

Aww I wanted you to do it for entertainment value. As Mr. Colbert said.. reality has a well known liberal bias. So its hard for real news not to sound bias!

By the way, lets not attack the messangers, and attack the message. Who cares if Jon Stewart noticed the flaw in their reporting. If any other reporter, comedian, or drunk person caught it, it would not change the underlying facts. And these are not opinions that are being slanted, they're lying and presenting these things as facts.

I have a lot more examples of Fox being biased on their 'news' in my bag. I don't even think MSNBC compares.

[Professor S]

Aww I wanted you to do it for entertainment value. As Mr. Colbert said.. reality has a well known liberal bias. So its hard for real news not to sound bias!

And yes, I find sourcing Colbert in a discussion on bias to be hilariously ironic as well. Do you often confuse satire with facts? How many other comedians do you get your news from? Does Dane Cook give you weather reports?

By the way, lets not attack the messangers, and attack the message. Who cares if Jon Stewart noticed the flaw in their reporting. If any other reporter, comedian, or drunk person caught it, it would not change the underlying facts. And these are not opinions that are being slanted, they're lying and presenting these things as facts.

I have a lot more examples of Fox being biased on their 'news' in my bag. I don't even think MSNBC compares.

As I said, if you want to continue to make a meaningless comparison, continue to do so. There are plenty of examples on both sides if you want to have a fair mind about the comparison, but you don't want to have a fair mind, you simply want to "win" regardless of if your comments have any bearing on the conversation at hand (you tend to do this a lot). You want to argue your world view, damn the topic being discussed, inconvenient facts or objective thought.

Just please realize that you do so only to excuse the fact that the news source you sympathize with is biased (self-delusion is a character trait I can't stomach). Pointing out the bias of another source does not excuse the bias of the one you happen to like. Thats the only point I've made in the entirety of our discussion and a point you have yet to address in any meaningful way. Instead you continue to attack Fox instead of answering to the points I've raised. In effect, you're the best example I could wish for to defend my assertions!

Game, you are the case in point; exhibit "A", if you will. Thank you for illustrating my argument so well by simply existing.

Here's a concession to hopefully get you to focus on the conversation at hand: FoxNews is more biased than MSNBC. Now can you actually address the points I've brought up?

[thatmariolover]

I don't know if anybody saw but Fox news actually pulled a fact check on Sarah Palin. I was quite surprised.

[TheGame]

Well, personally I think you're simply avoiding posting any slanted news reported by MSNBC because you can't find it. That's just my theory until you post some. And I do have a fair mind about it, I don't really trust MSNBC either. They just don't try to twist facts to purposely be misleading as fox does on their real 'news' programs.

So you can keep avoiding it if you chose, I just am opening up the forum for us to laugh at MSNBC as we laugh at fox. If its really compareable...

I just don't think it is compareable, except on its opinion shows. And you really haven't posted anything to sway me otherwise.

[Professor S]

I don't know if anybody saw but Fox news actually pulled a fact check on Sarah Palin. I was quite surprised.

Something tells me it wasn't Sean Hannity who did it... :D And yes, I think he's an idiot too.

There is a diversity of opinion on FoxNews, and not just in who they invite to contribute to their broadcasts. They are conservative, obviously, but there is also a diversity of conservative belief, especially when it comes to people like Sarah Palin as politicians (she is everything I hate about social conservatives). If you haven't noticed, there is a idealogical war going on in the Republican party right now. (I skew libertarian/fiscal conservative with approval of some social constructs (public education) and mainly favoring individual freedom over governmental control. That said, there are MANY modern conservatives who rub me the wrong way because they want as much control as leftists, but over different things.)

For me, I tend to watch the 6:00pm broadcast pretty regularly (and CNN during the day when I work from home, Sanchez does offer the left bias to even things out). It's 90% news (with usually a little conservative wit thrown in at the end of segments) with conservative based commentary at the end of the broadcast from a panel, but with usually one democrat present to contribute (like Juan Williams from, NPR). Plus, it has Charles Krauthammer, who I think is the most important conservative pundit out there today and the one I identify with the most.

It's about what/who you choose to consume. If you want to watch Hannity and the like expect a hard right bias with the potential for misstatements and "abused facts". But it's Sean Hannity... what would you expect? He obviously preaches to the choir who just want to hear like-minded rhetoric.

I suppose avoiding bias these days is impossible. We just need to be aware that regardless of the source, it's there, and we need to be conscious of it.

[Professor S]

Well, personally I think you're simply avoiding posting any slanted news reported by MSNBC because you can't find it.

Well you'd be wrong. You should be used to that by now.

That's just my theory until you post some. And I do have a fair mind about it, I don't really trust MSNBC either. They just don't try to twist facts to purposely be misleading as fox does on their real 'news' programs.

I clearly posted why it's off topic, but I also posted how to get it if you want to. It's not hard, but you've never been one to work hard, or at all, to correct yourself.

So you can keep avoiding it if you chose, I just am opening up the forum for us to laugh at MSNBC as we laugh at fox. If its really compareable...

I just don't think it is compareable, except on its opinion shows. And you really haven't posted anything to sway me otherwise.

You can continue to have this fictional discussion if you like, but it has nothing to do with what I've been posting since the beginning of this thread. I even conceded that FoxNews is more biased that MSNBC. What else do you want me to say that will actually get you to answer anything I've written!?! How about this:

CONGRATULATIONS! You've won the argument that you've been having with yourself! You are the King! :king:

Now would you mind joining the discussion I've been trying to have for the past two pages of posts?

Once again, you are a perfect illustration of every point I've made so far! You use every opportunity to avoid the discussion and instead deflect back to Fox, when all I've said is that people do EXACTLY what you're doing right now! This is amazing! You're completely ignorant of the fact that you're even doing it!

[TheGame]

Once again, you avoid backing up your claims that its easy to find examples of slanted news being on MSNBC. You're trying to change the subject because you can't find it.

The funny thing is, you're the person who turned the conversation into being about Fox vs MSNBC with your posts in this thread and by making the MSNBC thread. And you've yet to present a shred of evidence that they have slanted news.

So no, until you can back up your claims, I'm not going to accept "comparing the level of bias of FoxNews and MSNBC is like comparing the level of genocide of Hitler and Stalin. The answer is meaningless due to the severity of crimes on both sides" (your quote) as a fact.

So you can make all the evasive posts you want for the arguement you started, but I'm just going to continue calling you out until you back up your own claims.

Honestly I'm really interested to see what you found on 'the other side'. It's not like my feelings would be hurt if you showed me more of how MSNBC has a liberal slant to it. But once again, I just expect you to run, because you don't have any evidence.

[Professor S]

Once again, you avoid backing up your claims that its easy to find examples of slanted news being on MSNBC. You're trying to change the subject because you can't find it.

I feel no need to point out that the sky is blue.

The funny thing is, you're the person who turned the conversation into being about Fox vs MSNBC with your posts in this thread and by making the MSNBC thread. And you've yet to present a shred of evidence that they have slanted news.

No, I pointed out that people just like you can't accept the idea of another channel being biased besides FoxNews (if they have a liberal slant, especially). Once again, thanks for proving my point.

So no, until you can back up your claims, I'm not going to accept "comparing the level of bias of FoxNews and MSNBC is like comparing the level of genocide of Hitler and Stalin. The answer is meaningless due to the severity of crimes on both sides" (your quote) as a fact.

Just like it's a fact that the sky is blue. I don't need to post a picture of it. You just need to look for yourself, like I've asked you to do if you really are so unconvinced.

So you can make all the evasive posts you want for the arguement you started, but I'm just going to continue calling you out until you back up your own claims.

I told you where to look. I don't need to do anything more than that. Even if I did post some examples, how would you respond? Would you uddenly admit that you're wrong? That would be a first, so the endeavour is pointless and would only serve to continue this nonsense and further your goal of sending this discussion even more off topic.

Try looking for information that's contrary to your own opinion. It might enlighten you.

Honestly I'm really interested to see what you found on 'the other side'. It's not like my feelings would be hurt if you showed me more of how MSNBC has a liberal slant to it. But once again, I just expect you to run, because you don't have any evidence.

Honstly, you have zero interest in any of it. If you did, you would have already googled it just like asked. It took me all of 3 seconds. You even said youself that you don't trust MSNBC, so why are you so convinced I couldn't find any examples? You seem more content with continuing a failed/irrelevant argument than searching out anything new.

You are simply an impossible person who makes obvious attempts to manipulate conversations so you can avoid anything you find unpleasant. You're not dumb, you're just willfully ignorant, or ever worse you find more value in continuing an argument for it's own sake then using the debate to enlighten yourself or others.

[TheGame]

I looked and didn't find any slanted news. I found lots of people who are against MSNBC opinion shows, but I did not find any outright lies in their news reporting. All I'm asking for is one example.. and you can't provide that. But you turn around and say its just as much as a fact as the sky is blue.

Your whole arguement is invalid.

If its so easy to put MSNBC news in the same category as fox, but on the other side of the isle.. do it.