Log in

View Full Version : Five Myths About Health Care Around the World


manasecret
08-26-2009, 10:17 AM
A must read:

5 Myths About Health Care Around the World
by T.R. Reid
Sunday, August 23, 2009

As Americans search for the cure to what ails our health-care system, we've overlooked an invaluable source of ideas and solutions: the rest of the world. All the other industrialized democracies have faced problems like ours, yet they've found ways to cover everybody -- and still spend far less than we do.

I've traveled the world from Oslo to Osaka to see how other developed democracies provide health care. Instead of dismissing these models as "socialist," we could adapt their solutions to fix our problems. To do that, we first have to dispel a few myths about health care abroad:

1. It's all socialized medicine out there.

Not so. Some countries, such as Britain, New Zealand and Cuba, do provide health care in government hospitals, with the government paying the bills. Others -- for instance, Canada and Taiwan -- rely on private-sector providers, paid for by government-run insurance. But many wealthy countries -- including Germany, the Netherlands, Japan and Switzerland -- provide universal coverage using private doctors, private hospitals and private insurance plans.

In some ways, health care is less "socialized" overseas than in the United States. Almost all Americans sign up for government insurance (Medicare) at age 65. In Germany, Switzerland and the Netherlands, seniors stick with private insurance plans for life. Meanwhile, the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs is one of the planet's purest examples of government-run health care.

2. Overseas, care is rationed through limited choices or long lines.

Generally, no. Germans can sign up for any of the nation's 200 private health insurance plans -- a broader choice than any American has. If a German doesn't like her insurance company, she can switch to another, with no increase in premium. The Swiss, too, can choose any insurance plan in the country.

In France and Japan, you don't get a choice of insurance provider; you have to use the one designated for your company or your industry. But patients can go to any doctor, any hospital, any traditional healer. There are no U.S.-style limits such as "in-network" lists of doctors or "pre-authorization" for surgery. You pick any doctor, you get treatment -- and insurance has to pay.

Canadians have their choice of providers. In Austria and Germany, if a doctor diagnoses a person as "stressed," medical insurance pays for weekends at a health spa.

As for those notorious waiting lists, some countries are indeed plagued by them. Canada makes patients wait weeks or months for nonemergency care, as a way to keep costs down. But studies by the Commonwealth Fund and others report that many nations -- Germany, Britain, Austria -- outperform the United States on measures such as waiting times for appointments and for elective surgeries.

In Japan, waiting times are so short that most patients don't bother to make an appointment. One Thursday morning in Tokyo, I called the prestigious orthopedic clinic at Keio University Hospital to schedule a consultation about my aching shoulder. "Why don't you just drop by?" the receptionist said. That same afternoon, I was in the surgeon's office. Dr. Nakamichi recommended an operation. "When could we do it?" I asked. The doctor checked his computer and said, "Tomorrow would be pretty difficult. Perhaps some day next week?"

3. Foreign health-care systems are inefficient, bloated bureaucracies.

Much less so than here. It may seem to Americans that U.S.-style free enterprise -- private-sector, for-profit health insurance -- is naturally the most cost-effective way to pay for health care. But in fact, all the other payment systems are more efficient than ours.

U.S. health insurance companies have the highest administrative costs in the world; they spend roughly 20 cents of every dollar for nonmedical costs, such as paperwork, reviewing claims and marketing. France's health insurance industry, in contrast, covers everybody and spends about 4 percent on administration. Canada's universal insurance system, run by government bureaucrats, spends 6 percent on administration. In Taiwan, a leaner version of the Canadian model has administrative costs of 1.5 percent; one year, this figure ballooned to 2 percent, and the opposition parties savaged the government for wasting money.

The world champion at controlling medical costs is Japan, even though its aging population is a profligate consumer of medical care. On average, the Japanese go to the doctor 15 times a year, three times the U.S. rate. They have twice as many MRI scans and X-rays. Quality is high; life expectancy and recovery rates for major diseases are better than in the United States. And yet Japan spends about $3,400 per person annually on health care; the United States spends more than $7,000.

4. Cost controls stifle innovation.

False. The United States is home to groundbreaking medical research, but so are other countries with much lower cost structures. Any American who's had a hip or knee replacement is standing on French innovation. Deep-brain stimulation to treat depression is a Canadian breakthrough. Many of the wonder drugs promoted endlessly on American television, including Viagra, come from British, Swiss or Japanese labs.
Overseas, strict cost controls actually drive innovation. In the United States, an MRI scan of the neck region costs about $1,500. In Japan, the identical scan costs $98. Under the pressure of cost controls, Japanese researchers found ways to perform the same diagnostic technique for one-fifteenth the American price. (And Japanese labs still make a profit.)

5. Health insurance has to be cruel.

Not really. American health insurance companies routinely reject applicants with a "preexisting condition" -- precisely the people most likely to need the insurers' service. They employ armies of adjusters to deny claims. If a customer is hit by a truck and faces big medical bills, the insurer's "rescission department" digs through the records looking for grounds to cancel the policy, often while the victim is still in the hospital. The companies say they have to do this stuff to survive in a tough business.

Foreign health insurance companies, in contrast, must accept all applicants, and they can't cancel as long as you pay your premiums. The plans are required to pay any claim submitted by a doctor or hospital (or health spa), usually within tight time limits. The big Swiss insurer Groupe Mutuel promises to pay all claims within five days. "Our customers love it," the group's chief executive told me. The corollary is that everyone is mandated to buy insurance, to give the plans an adequate pool of rate-payers.

The key difference is that foreign health insurance plans exist only to pay people's medical bills, not to make a profit. The United States is the only developed country that lets insurance companies profit from basic health coverage.

In many ways, foreign health-care models are not really "foreign" to America, because our crazy-quilt health-care system uses elements of all of them. For Native Americans or veterans, we're Britain: The government provides health care, funding it through general taxes, and patients get no bills. For people who get insurance through their jobs, we're Germany: Premiums are split between workers and employers, and private insurance plans pay private doctors and hospitals. For people over 65, we're Canada: Everyone pays premiums for an insurance plan run by the government, and the public plan pays private doctors and hospitals according to a set fee schedule. And for the tens of millions without insurance coverage, we're Burundi or Burma: In the world's poor nations, sick people pay out of pocket for medical care; those who can't pay stay sick or die.

This fragmentation is another reason that we spend more than anybody else and still leave millions without coverage. All the other developed countries have settled on one model for health-care delivery and finance; we've blended them all into a costly, confusing bureaucratic mess.
Which, in turn, punctures the most persistent myth of all: that America has "the finest health care" in the world. We don't. In terms of results, almost all advanced countries have better national health statistics than the United States does. In terms of finance, we force 700,000 Americans into bankruptcy each year because of medical bills. In France, the number of medical bankruptcies is zero. Britain: zero. Japan: zero. Germany: zero.

Given our remarkable medical assets -- the best-educated doctors and nurses, the most advanced hospitals, world-class research -- the United States could be, and should be, the best in the world. To get there, though, we have to be willing to learn some lessons about health-care administration from the other industrialized democracies.

T.R. Reid, a former Washington Post reporter, is the author of "The Healing of America: A Global Quest for Better, Cheaper, and Fairer Health Care," to be published Monday.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/21/AR2009082101778_2.html

EDIT: You have to sign in now to read the first page.

Bond
08-27-2009, 01:35 AM
I felt a duty to reply due to the current lack of replies (:(), which I think may be indicative of us exhausting the health care reform debate.

The article was a nice read, I suppose, but I'm not sure how many of those "myths" are truly myths. I do believe valuable information can be gained from studying foreign health care systems, but their success in foreign countries does not ensure their success within our own country. One has to consider the population size, population makeup, immigration, tax structure, etc, of each selective country in relation to the success of its health care system.

p.obsburn
08-27-2009, 04:23 AM
I totally agree Bond. Since we are dealing with human and we are all unique. We can't just "copy 'n' paste" a health care system from other countries and hope it will work for this country.

But I do think health care is really a burden to the Governments

manasecret
08-27-2009, 10:00 AM
I'm glad I got one response before the bot came in.

But that's ok if I get no responses. I just think this is important information to get out there. I know for a fact that much of these myths are perpetuated as arguments against healthcare reform. I'm glad someone finally answered the questions I had (and I assume others had) whether they are correct or incorrect assumptions.

For example, I hear a lot of arguments that socialized healthcare must equal long wait times. That's apparently not necessarily true. Same thing with the statement that if the government has a large base that it insures it can then throw its weight around against the medical industry to reduce prices, which will then stifle innovation. Again, this apparently is not necessarily true, and in fact can produce quite the opposite (Japan).

While they may not all apply directly to the U.S. because of several different factors as Bond mentioned, to put them forth as arguments against healthcare saying that socialized healthcare must = long wait times, socialized healthcare must = less innovative healthcare, are simply not valid arguments.

Angrist
08-27-2009, 11:53 AM
Manasecret has been taken over by spammers now?

Anyway, they're correct about the Dutch situation, that's all I can say.

Professor S
08-27-2009, 02:01 PM
While they may not all apply directly to the U.S. because of several different factors as Bond mentioned, to put them forth as arguments against healthcare saying that socialized healthcare must = long wait times, socialized healthcare must = less innovative healthcare, are simply not valid arguments.

Ok, we'll change the argument to "are likely to hurt innovation and increase wait times" instead of "must".

Israel is an excellent example of good socialized healthcare working very well, but we also have to realize that Israel is not America in size, scope or citizenship (they have an abundance of doctors who live there for reasons beyond their profession). Thats why I think the greatest arguments against universal health insurance aren't examples from other countries, even though there are plenty of horror stories to share along with victory speeches, but whether or not America has ever been able to competently execute something of this size and scope, or even less so.

The answer is a resounding and obvious "no", but for some reason people will never stop repeating the same mantra of "this time we'll get it right"... "this time we'll get it right"...

I'd actually like to ask what people think about "risk pooling" that McCain talked about recently, where he addresses those that can't get insurance for pre-existing conditions by pooling them together and having a government agency help purchase insurance for everyone as a group to help reduce costs. This would help fill the current gap in the uninsured who want coverage, but also not force anyone to get insurance if they don't want it and wouldn't sabotage the free market and/or employer provided care the large majority of Americans currently enjoy.

Bond
08-27-2009, 03:27 PM
I'd actually like to ask what people think about "risk pooling" that McCain talked about recently, where he addresses those that can't get insurance for pre-existing conditions by pooling them together and having a government agency help purchase insurance for everyone as a group to help reduce costs. This would help fill the current gap in the uninsured who want coverage, but also not force anyone to get insurance if they don't want it and wouldn't sabotage the free market and/or employer provided care the large majority of Americans currently enjoy.
It sounds like quite a good idea, and somewhat similar to the idea I posted in our other health care thread that would create a charity operated "mutual insurer." That idea would also not add to the deficit - imagine that!

McCain's proposal seems to be a proper and effective use of government power within the private sector. Having these citizens whom have pre-existing conditions pooled together as a group would also reduce their risk of being dropped by insurance companies. Most of those horror stories you hear of persons being dropped are under an individual policy, and not a group policy.

manasecret
08-27-2009, 03:43 PM
Ok, we'll change the argument to "are likely to hurt innovation and increase wait times" instead of "must".

This is exactly my point. You can no longer say definitively that outside examples of healthcare show that socialized medicine/healthcare will do these things. And, not only that, but in fact someone on the other end of the debate could say just as honestly that examples from outside the U.S. show that they "are likely not to hurt innovation and increase wait times." (And just to be clear, the same goes for other such arguments brought up in this article.)

Israel is an excellent example of good socialized healthcare working very well, but we also have to realize that Israel is not America in size, scope or citizenship (they have an abundance of doctors who live there for reasons beyond their profession). Thats why I think the greatest arguments against universal health insurance aren't examples from other countries, even though there are plenty of horror stories to share along with victory speeches, but whether or not America has ever been able to competently execute something of this size and scope, or even less so.

The answer is a resounding and obvious "no", but for some reason people will never stop repeating the same mantra of "this time we'll get it right"... "this time we'll get it right"... This goes back into the heart of the healthcare debate that I'm not armed to argue. I made my point.

I'd actually like to ask what people think about "risk pooling" that McCain talked about recently, where he addresses those that can't get insurance for pre-existing conditions by pooling them together and having a government agency help purchase insurance for everyone as a group to help reduce costs. This would help fill the current gap in the uninsured who want coverage, but also not force anyone to get insurance if they don't want it and wouldn't sabotage the free market and/or employer provided care the large majority of Americans currently enjoy.I believe that Texas has this sort of risk pool or something similar, and I imagine it's not uncommon for some other states. If you're interested in the idea, I suggest you research risk pool in Texas. I have no knowledge about its success or otherwise.

manasecret
08-27-2009, 04:55 PM
An interesting tidbit from the article:

The key difference is that foreign health insurance plans exist only to pay people's medical bills, not to make a profit. The United States is the only developed country that lets insurance companies profit from basic health coverage.

I had no idea. I assume this must include countries that have fully socialized health insurance, and other countries like Germany where all of it is privately owned up and down. And to think, so many of them do so well even when they aren't set up to make a profit.

Professor S
08-27-2009, 05:53 PM
Mana, I think citing that article as evidence that socialized healthcare can work is one thing, but you seem to confuse the article with 100% irrefutable proof that it does, and it should end the argument. Thats a bit silly, especially considering how the article targets successes and only argues the positive, and ignores most of the failures Bond and I have pointed out over and over again, and certainly never explores the free market victories in all of these categories. That article is a contrarian argument, and while considerable and valid, not an honest broker and certainly not a trump card to anything in this debate.

Also, no one here has claimed that socialized healthcare is an absolute failure in every case. I even pointed out how it has succeeded in Israel. Our contention is and always has been that it would fail in the US, and there is more evidence to support that claim than that it would likely succeed (I won't bore everyone by re-posting the arguments/evidence).

And to be clear, I view failure as asking the vast majority (insured) to accept/tolerate a lower quality of care to insure the minority (uninsured), or forcing them to accept care they do not want or need. We need to bring care up for everyone. There is no victory in tearing one side down to achieve medicocrity to the other.

manasecret
08-27-2009, 10:55 PM
Mana, I think citing that article as evidence that socialized healthcare can work is one thing, but you seem to confuse the article with 100% irrefutable proof that it does, and it should end the argument.

No, I don't! I said exactly what my point was and that's all I had to say. I said and meant nothing about how that wins the debate for the Obama healthcare plan, that is only your inference, which is untrue.

Thats a bit silly, especially considering how the article targets successes and only argues the positive, and ignores most of the failures Bond and I have pointed out over and over again, and certainly never explores the free market victories in all of these categories. That article is a contrarian argument, and while considerable and valid, not an honest broker and certainly not a trump card to anything in this debate.

Also, no one here has claimed that socialized healthcare is an absolute failure in every case. I even pointed out how it has succeeded in Israel. Our contention is and always has been that it would fail in the US, and there is more evidence to support that claim than that it would likely succeed (I won't bore everyone by re-posting the arguments/evidence).

And to be clear, I view failure as asking the vast majority (insured) to accept/tolerate a lower quality of care to insure the minority (uninsured), or forcing them to accept care they do not want or need. We need to bring care up for everyone. There is no victory in tearing one side down to achieve medicocrity to the other.

Professor S
08-27-2009, 11:25 PM
No, I don't! I said exactly what my point was and that's all I had to say. I said and meant nothing about how that wins the debate for the Obama healthcare plan, that is only your inference, which is untrue.

I apologize if I misunderstood the passion of your argument for certainty. The last thing I want to do is put words in anyone's mouth. I appreciate the clarification.