Immersion in Video Games

[BreakABone]

I'm not quite sure how to word this thread, I guess.


I really don't want it to become a Wii vs HD console thread, but sure it will lead towards it.

I'm just curious what creates better immersion in a game.

Is it mood setting music?
Beautiful graphics?
Well constructed gameplay?
The interface?

I'm curious on thoughts because I mean I guess it has always been the gameplay for me, I loathe games that break up the action with long-drawn out cutscenes, but I know some people enjoy it because it brings them more into the world. Music is another thing that could help immerse you, but I guess I should expand that to sound overall.

So what best creates immersion for you.

[gekko]

I agree with you on the cut scenes. I played the campaign of COD4 last night (again), and I really think they did a good job with interactive cut scenes. It wasn't gimmicky, like paused and asked you to press a button. I really like when the helicopter crashed and you needed to crawl out to your death, and when Price slides you the pistol and you need to shoot the dudes. Very well done.

[BreakABone]

I agree with you on the cut scenes. I played the campaign of COD4 last night (again), and I really think they did a good job with interactive cut scenes. It wasn't gimmicky, like paused and asked you to press a button. I really like when the helicopter crashed and you needed to crawl out to your death, and when Price slides you the pistol and you need to shoot the dudes. Very well done.

Okay that's a good example of how a cutscene can actually work in favor of a game, but many games don't do it like CoD.

If they do, it relies on QTE which just isn't as cool.

[Vampyr]

All of them. The interface should be intuitive and easy to learn to the point where you don't really have to think about how you're going to manage or manipulate something in the game.

The visuals and graphics don't need to be realistic, but they need to be pretty and artistic. The music doesn't need to be groundbreaking, but it should set the mood.

And of course the gameplay has to be good, otherwise it doesn't even matter how immersive the rest of the game is, if the gameplay is bad no one will play it.

[BreakABone]

All of them. The interface should be intuitive and easy to learn to the point where you don't really have to think about how you're going to manage or manipulate something in the game.

The visuals and graphics don't need to be realistic, but they need to be pretty and artistic. The music doesn't need to be groundbreaking, but it should set the mood.

And of course the gameplay has to be good, otherwise it doesn't even matter how immersive the rest of the game is, if the gameplay is bad no one will play it.

I might which would you weigh more, I mean sure ideally an awesome game is when the complete package came together, but which is most important to the whole experience.

[DeathsHand]

And of course the gameplay has to be good, otherwise it doesn't even matter how immersive the rest of the game is, if the gameplay is bad no one will play it.

Try to find a Silent Hill fan who ever thought the series had good gameplay...
Hells, I thought SH4 was a step above SH3 despite the fact that it's gameplay took about two big steps back.

I would say the most important thing for me would be a well constructed WORLD...
And I don't necessarily mean it has to have a gigantic area that you can explore willy-nilly, I just mean a world that feels like it's been lived in, has a story behind it, is well designed (artistically and functionally), etc...

I don't mind cutscenes, but finding a way to incorporate them into a gameplay experience (HL2 would be the only example I can think of off the top of my head) certainly doesn't hurt...
And as a side note, I curse whoever came up with QTEs...

[Typhoid]

I think it's a combination of storyline and graphics.

I mean, this isn't 92 anymore. You can't really get by on just a good storyline alone anymore.

If a game now has a great storyline, and sub-par graphics - it won't feel amazing, it'll just feel nostalgic.

For some reason (maybe because I'm re-playing it) Final Fantasy 12 really gets me. The game feels massive, the world big - and the story - while not amazing isn't bad. The cutscenes are pretty beautifully well done aswell.

Also the fact that the "main" character isn't really the leader of the group you're in makes it feel a little better to me.

I will say though, CoD4 is by far the best shooter single player campaign I've ever played.

[TheGame]

To me the best and most timeless games to me are the ones that try for their own art style opposed to trying to look realistic. It kinda gives more life to the game when it doesn't try to mimic reality. Wind waker for example can be played side by side with any game now, and even seem more polished because it tried for its own art style instead of trying to push too much towards looking realistic.

But.. for me personally.. I'm a sucker for a good storyline. (I know that wasn't one of your options) It doesn't matter how good or bad a game is, if it has a good story line, then I'm very likely to force my way through it regardless of how the gameplay works. I've never been into those shoot em up games where you don't really have any purpose behind your actions other then getting random orders.

This is why I love MGS so much, its a perfect example of good story telling in a video game. Its a great story presented in a manner in which you really can connect with the main characters. It just happens to have awesome graphics and solid gameplay. I'm so sold on the story line alone that the only way the gameplay or interface would have stopped me from beating it is if it was extremely hard and riddled with near impossible parts.

So yeah, to sum it up.. what works best for me is games that are story driven.

[magus113]

The immersion is a big deal that can take a lot into account. Half-Life 2 is a perfect example of what a good achievement in gaming is. The interactive cut scenes that keep the pace constantly changing, the simple yet fun gameplay of an FPS with intuitive puzzles and a simple to use interface and great story molded it all together in to what could be one of the more finer achievements in gaming.

OoT has a very deep plot that is only deepened by all the other games in the franchise, easy to use menu and controls, and simple gameplay that keeps the action coming because while you're not really slashing the sword, you feel aggressive with the button presses because you get into it. And while the cutscenes weren't interactive and there were some pretty big walls of text, it adds to the immersion.

[manasecret]

Hmmm... tough question. I think you could write a long essay on such a topic and still not cover everything.

My first stab at it... I think all the different things you can think of that make a game (graphics, sound, story, gameplay, art direction, controls, etc.) can -- if they're good enough -- each individually pull you into a game. Some games do it one way, others do it another way, and yet others do it another way. I think if you can accomplish one aspect extraordinarily well, it will always pull in some class of gamers.

Examples:
Graphics: See FFVII and beyond. I imagine Uncharted fits this mold as well. (Yes, these games do other things well, but remember right at the beginning how much just the graphics alone immediately immerse you into the game.)
Art direction: World of Goo. Again, other things keep you immersed, but the art direction alone immediately immerses you.
Controls: Wii Sports

Other examples?

Maybe these aren't the best examples (except Wii Sports) where a game does just one aspect extraordinarily well that keeps you immersed, since each one has a combination of extraordinary aspects that keep you immersed.

[Angrist]

The most important thing for me is gameplay. When I think of the games that immersed me, I realize they all had awesome gameplay.
After that, it would have to be story. Then graphics I guess. And sound plays a role.

Games that immersed me:
Most Zeldas.
Warcraft 2 & 3
Starcraft
World of Warcraft
The Metroid Primes
Golden Eye & Perfect Dark (not so much though)
Aliens vs Predator
Morrowind (I guess)
Myth I & II

Hm, looking at that list, maybe an even bigger factor is atmosphere. A game needs the right mood. Dark and scary like in AvP, or green and mythic as in the Warcrafts. It needs the right lighting, the right dialogue, the right tension.

[BreakABone]

I didn't feel like starting a new thread, but found this article, which talks about the myth of a game being in first person making it more immersive.

http://gamasutra.com/news?story=24513

[Thespis721]

Immersion is how well they integrate the gameplay with the visual. Since that is our connection to the game, what our motor skills do and what we see. Running and hitting an invisible wall takes you out of the game, listening to boring dialogue and extended cut scenes takes you out of the game.

Good examples of immersion: Gears of War, CoD4, Zelda games, Mario Galaxy, Grand Theft Auto, Shadow Complex. Games that really use unique ways to keep you IN the game.

Bad examples of immersion: Metal Gear Solid, most Spider-Man games, Tactics games (I love 'em but they stink at it), Assassin's Creed

[Angrist]

BaB, I think that guy/gal confuses immersion with identifying with the hero. Identifying might be part of it, but it's not the same as immersion.

But it's a good point. The only Half-Life that immersed me was Episode 2, which had a lot of Alex. So she was the one I started to care for, more than Freeman, who is just a mute nerd in his forties.

Then again, Aliens vs Predator was a very immersing game for me and that didn't have any characters to identify with...

[TheGame]

Good examples of immersion: ...Grand Theft Auto...

Bad examples of immersion: Metal Gear Solid...

I disagree. Cutscenes can work to your advantage in immersion if you're actually into the story that's being told. I'll agree that 'long boring' cutscenes would suck for immersion, but you're already lost if you think the story is boring to begin with.

Games that created the most full believeable worlds to me are RPGs and games like MGS. A good complex, but beliveable story line that drives you to play is a big part of immersion to me.

That's one issue I've had with the GTA series as a whole. While I like the gameplay for the most part, it feels empty in the long run because the story never motivated me enough to stay locked on it, or care that the main character is completing these missions.

You can make a game with below par graphics real in your mind by connecting to the characters, understanding the world, and being motivated enough to see your character through to the end. And you can make a realistic game with very little limitations feel unrealistic because you have no emotional connection to the game or the person you're controlling whatsoever.

That's just my opinion on the subject.

[TheGame]

BaB, I think that guy/gal confuses immersion with identifying with the hero. Identifying might be part of it, but it's not the same as immersion.

immersion - complete attention; intense mental effort
engrossment, absorption, concentration
attention - the faculty or power of mental concentration; "keeping track of all the details requires your complete attention"

centering, focus, focusing, focussing, focal point, direction - the concentration of attention or energy on something; "the focus of activity shifted to molecular biology"; "he had no direction in his life"

specialism - the concentration of your efforts on a particular field of study or occupation

study - a state of deep mental absorption; "she is in a deep study"

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/immersion

Its a big part of it. Unless I'm misunderstanding what you guys mean by immersion... I may be leaning more towards immersion in the total package of a video game, opposed to immersion in the gameplay only. How the topic was worded I'm assuming he was talking about the full package.

[KillerGremlin]

Immersion of course appeals to me in different levels at different times. When I pick a game up I am first pulled in by graphics and sound. Then I get absorbed into the story and gameplay. And finally I get immersed if the game is addicting and fun.

Games that really immersed me....Super Mario 64, Mario Bros. 3, OoT, Link's Awakening, Peggle (the first time you hear the music after you beat a level, omg!), Counter-Strike/TF2 for their long-term, addictive gameplay

[Thespis721]

I disagree. Cutscenes can work to your advantage in immersion if you're actually into the story that's being told. I'll agree that 'long boring' cutscenes would suck for immersion, but you're already lost if you think the story is boring to begin with.

Games that created the most full believeable worlds to me are RPGs and games like MGS. A good complex, but beliveable story line that drives you to play is a big part of immersion to me.

That's one issue I've had with the GTA series as a whole. While I like the gameplay for the most part, it feels empty in the long run because the story never motivated me enough to stay locked on it, or care that the main character is completing these missions.

You can make a game with below par graphics real in your mind by connecting to the characters, understanding the world, and being motivated enough to see your character through to the end. And you can make a realistic game with very little limitations feel unrealistic because you have no emotional connection to the game or the person you're controlling whatsoever.

That's just my opinion on the subject.

Okay. I can agree that GTA might be a little off for an example because of the gameplay flaws but MGS lacks immersion for me, completely. And long cut scenes are a big reason for it. Whether they are boring is moot because when the cut scenes get this long (and it's the same issue I have with Square Enix games), the gamer starts becoming a witness instead of a participant. If I am just witnessing the game, then I don't feel immersed then if I am participating in it.

It's like the old theatre adage, Don't tell, show. In gaming, you need to take it a step further.

[TheGame]

Okay. I can agree that GTA might be a little off for an example because of the gameplay flaws but MGS lacks immersion for me, completely. And long cut scenes are a big reason for it. Whether they are boring is moot because when the cut scenes get this long (and it's the same issue I have with Square Enix games), the gamer starts becoming a witness instead of a participant. If I am just witnessing the game, then I don't feel immersed then if I am participating in it.

It's like the old theatre adage, Don't tell, show. In gaming, you need to take it a step further.

I disagree. But you're entitled to your opinion on the matter, and I respect it.

I don't believe that GTA4 has many gameplay flaws, its about as realistic of a city that's ever been made in a video game before, and its combat system is good. And it offers more freedom then almost any game to date. Its flaw is a lack of a good story line that really pulls people into that world and makes it real for them. Niko is not a guy that anyone who is sane can really relate too, he's just overly evil about how he handles things for no apparent reason.

I belive that cutscenes can add more life to a game in a lot of ways. MGS4 in particular is over loaded with them since its the ending sequence to 7+ games over the last 15+ years. It had to single handedly put every part of Snake's life to rest.. so I excuse its long cutscenes early. Plus I like the story and follow it closely.. so I'm bias towards it.

So I'll back away from that one as an example, since I know someone who wasn't already immersed in the series would not care much for the conclusion of the story. (But I'd like to point out that MGS 1-4 on average is as high or higher rated then any of the series you listed as a 'good example' of immersion, for a reason.)

[Vampyr]

I have to say, Xenosaga Episode I is probably the most immersive video game I've ever played, and it was notorious for very long cut scenes.

[Thespis721]

Well, I guess this is a big part of immersion that we differ on. When a cut scene gets too long, I start feeling less immersed in the world and feeling more sidelined. You know what game was incredibly immersive that I just started playing? Shadow Complex.

[BreakABone]

I guess it all depends on how you feel about stories in gaming.

For the most part, even the most elaborate video game plots boil down to a save the world type deal because of the simple nature, they make more compelling games than many other genres.

And to me, its takes me out of the experience... especially if it undergoes.. what I call those unplayable moments, which are moments that look so awesome... that you can't replicate at all in the game.

To go to an analogy since we love them here on GT, its like if you were watching a movie that paused in the middle to ask you to describe how you think the rest of the movie will play out... and then cut forward to continue the movie.

[Angrist]

To go to an analogy since we love them here on GT, its like if you were watching a movie that paused in the middle to ask you to describe how you think the rest of the movie will play out... and then cut forward to continue the movie.Uh I don't see what you mean. Is it a good or a bad thing?

[Thespis721]

Bad thing. Yeah, BaB has a point, it really depends on your point of view on gaming. For example, I don't really care if there is a story as long as the gameplay is locked down and solid. I don't play GTA, Marvel vs. Capcom 2, Shadow Complex, Metroid, Super Mario Galaxy, etc, etc... for the story. For me, personally, I'll leave the story needs for when I see my theatre or watch a movie. If there is a story in a game, then I it's a bonus, but not if the story takes precedent over the game.

For example, while I do like MOST of the MGS series, I never felt immersed because of all the cut scenes. The original MGS was the best.

[BreakABone]

Uh I don't see what you mean. Is it a good or a bad thing?

Its a bad thing if I wasn't clear.

When I'm watching a movie, I'm watching a movie. And for someone or something to take me out of the element of the movie through any means would just shatter it for me.

Here's a bit more subtle and recent example I guess, Harry Potter and The Half Blood Prince is in 3D for the beginning of the movie, which is all well and good, but then a giant sign comes up about 10 minutes into the movie telling you to take off your glasses. Coming into this, I didn't know if 3D was select scenes or what so for the rest of the movie, I was semi-focused on any warning telling me to put back on the glasses, which in essence took away my enjoyment of the movie.

It would be IMO the same as if I'm playing a game and all of a sudden there is a 10 minute stop gap, it kills the momentum and generally is the time I turn off the game for a bit because it kills my own flow.

[TheGame]

I don't think the movie pausing to ask you where to go next is the same thing. If you really hate cutscenes in games that much though, that's unfortunate. haha

I think cutscenes add life to a game that is impossible to achive through smashing buttons. It gives the world life, gives the characters personality, and gives the player motivation to keep moving.

If you don't understand the cutscenes I can see how it can kill the flow, but if you like the story it adds so much more to the game. If you like the story it doesn't even feel like the cutscene is something unnessicary or extra in the game.

I'm sure when you played Zelda OoT you didn't stop to question how long the scene where you first met the princess was, or the part where you move through time. The way I see it, as long as you're only watching dialouge and not actual fights your main character is involed in, in cutscenes.. then there shouldn't be an issue. It would only feel long if you could care less about the story.

[Angrist]

Sometimes I'm already annoyed by the cutscenes in Super Mario Galaxy, where I'm getting launched to a new planet. :D I dislike losing control over Mario.

Ok with Ocarina of Time, good example... Maybe it's a love/hate relationship. I love the scenes, especially with Link. In the meanwhile I keep holding my controller, impatiently waiting to take control again. I enjoy the story, the quiet parts that can't be easily told in another way.
BUT! OoT does it wrong in one point. Dealing the final blow to Ganon. I HATED the game for stealing my kill. I was about to slash Ganon in the head when a cutscene starts that shows me what I wanted to do myself. :(

So maybe that's the problem right there.

[BreakABone]

I don't think the movie pausing to ask you where to go next is the same thing. If you really hate cutscenes in games that much though, that's unfortunate. haha
I think its the exact same thing.

You get it in your mind that whatever is happening will continue to happen, and then you are thrown for a loop (you have to stop watching your movie/playing your game)

I think cutscenes add life to a game that is impossible to achive through smashing buttons. It gives the world life, gives the characters personality, and gives the player motivation to keep moving.

If you don't understand the cutscenes I can see how it can kill the flow, but if you like the story it adds so much more to the game. If you like the story it doesn't even feel like the cutscene is something unnessicary or extra in the game.
But you are making it seem like cutscenes are the only way to add story to a game.

Look at Prince of Persia or Uncharted, they were able to add lots of story by just having the main character react to the world around them, not gonna say they didn't have cutscenes, but a lot of what you learn about the characters and your enemies come from comments made during the game.

I'm sure when you played Zelda OoT you didn't stop to question how long the scene where you first met the princess was, or the part where you move through time. The way I see it, as long as you're only watching dialogue and not actual fights your main character is involved in, in cutscenes.. then there shouldn't be an issue. It would only feel long if you could care less about the story.
So I guess I don't care about the stories then, not that many video game stories are all that special.


Sometimes I'm already annoyed by the cutscenes in Super Mario Galaxy, where I'm getting launched to a new planet. :D I dislike losing control over Mario.
Those aren't really cutscenes, more like transitional effects since you can mostly still interact with the world around Mario. Sure mostly to collect those gems, but you have some controls.

[TheGame]

Sometimes I'm already annoyed by the cutscenes in Super Mario Galaxy, where I'm getting launched to a new planet. :D I dislike losing control over Mario.

Ok with Ocarina of Time, good example... Maybe it's a love/hate relationship. I love the scenes, especially with Link. In the meanwhile I keep holding my controller, impatiently waiting to take control again. I enjoy the story, the quiet parts that can't be easily told in another way.
BUT! OoT does it wrong in one point. Dealing the final blow to Ganon. I HATED the game for stealing my kill. I was about to slash Ganon in the head when a cutscene starts that shows me what I wanted to do myself. :(

So maybe that's the problem right there.

Yeah, I agree with the last part, that's why I said: "The way I see it, as long as you're only watching dialouge and not actual fights your main character is involed in, in cutscenes.. then there shouldn't be an issue. It would only feel long if you could care less about the story."

The only time it has the potential to bug me is when its a fight scene with the main character in a cutscene.

[TheGame]

I think its the exact same thing.

You get it in your mind that whatever is happening will continue to happen, and then you are thrown for a loop (you have to stop watching your movie/playing your game)

Nah its different. The only difference between a video game and a movie is that you control a lot of the action in a video game. There's not many video games rated above 90% on average where you control 100% of the action all the time. Its normal for a game to have cutscenes, its abnormal for a movie to have you make decisions.

Thus, its different.

But you are making it seem like cutscenes are the only way to add story to a game.

Look at Prince of Persia or Uncharted, they were able to add lots of story by just having the main character react to the world around them, not gonna say they didn't have cutscenes, but a lot of what you learn about the characters and your enemies come from comments made during the game.

Both of those games have cutscenes, which kills your own point.

So I guess I don't care about the stories then, not that many video game stories are all that special.

You probably don't.

I care about stories in games a lot. If a game has a good story its more immersive to me, and cutscenes is a good and widely used tool to help accomplish telling a good story.

[BreakABone]

Nah its different. The only difference between a video game and a movie is that you control a lot of the action in a video game. There's not many video games rated above 90% on average where you control 100% of the action all the time. Its normal for a game to have cutscenes, its abnormal for a movie to have you make decisions.

Thus, its different.

Just because something is normal doesn't mean it has to be accepted.


Both of those games have cutscenes, which kills your own point.
I stated that both of these games have cutscenes, it doesn't kill my point.

My point was that there are other ways to tell a story without cutscenes, not that they don't have it, but the stuff they do outside of the cutscene is a lot more interesting and better helps develop the characters and the world than their actual cutscenes.


You probably don't.

I care about stories in games a lot. If a game has a good story its more immersive to me, and cutscenes is a good and widely used tool to help accomplish telling a good story.

I don't care about story in games.
Give me a weapon or a goal and point me in the right direction.
I'm good to go for like the next 10-20 hours.

[TheGame]

Just because something is normal doesn't mean it has to be accepted.

That's a part in how highly rated video games are made these days. On some level or another, the vast majority of games that are considered to be "good" and have have a storyline... have cutscenes too.

I stated that both of these games have cutscenes, it doesn't kill my point.

My point was that there are other ways to tell a story without cutscenes, not that they don't have it, but the stuff they do outside of the cutscene is a lot more interesting and better helps develop the characters and the world than their actual cutscenes.

There's a way to tell a story without cutscenes, yes.. but cutscenes add to the effect and get people more immersed in the game. Thus why pretty much all the highly rated games that have a half decent story have some cutscenes.

I don't care about story in games.
Give me a weapon or a goal and point me in the right direction.
I'm good to go for like the next 10-20 hours.

I like both games with stories, and pick up and play games. I just get more immersed in games with a story personally.

[BreakABone]

And just so we are clear here, its not that I dislike stories in game (though for the most part are generally nothing to write home about), its that I loathe cutscenes in games.

Especially ones that are long-winded (most RPGs and MGS come to mind) or ones that shift the game out of your hands.

[TheGame]

And just so we are clear here, its not that I dislike stories in game (though for the most part are generally nothing to write home about), its that I loathe cutscenes in games.

Especially ones that are long-winded (most RPGs and MGS come to mind) or ones that shift the game out of your hands.

And MGS is my favorite game series, and RPGs is one of my favorite genres. So yeah we're complete opposites on this subject. :)

[BreakABone]

Thought of another good example of a game that adds story/character without forcing too many cutscenes.

Batman: Arkham Asylum, you learn a lot about the characters and the history of the Asylum through various interviews and tapes you find. And the best thing about it IMO, is that the tapes will continue playing even while you beat up baddies.

And yeah, we are on opposite ends of this spectrum it seems.

[TheGame]

I didn't get to play that game much, but I downloaded the Demo. Just seems like a button-smasher beat-em-up game to me. It didn't really pull me in enough to buy it.. questioning if I should even rent it.