Is this poster racist?

[Bond]

http://iusbvision.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/obama-joker1.jpg

The above poster has appeared in LA over the past few weeks. Many commentators believe it to be a racist attack against the president, but are its intentions really racial in nature? Or, rather, are they an attack against Mr. Obama's policies?

[BreakABone]

I don't see how its racist, other than if they are intending it to be white face, and not just a play on The Joker.

[Fox 6]

How do they make the connection of the Joker and socialism tho?

[Bond]

How do they make the connection of the Joker and socialism tho?
That's the main issue many people have pointed out. As we know, at his heart, the Joker is clearly an anarchist, not a socialist. I believe the artist is making more of a superficial connection between Obama and the Joker, as in Obama is a joke, his policies were socialist all along.

[The Germanator]

I don't immediately consider it racist, but as mentioned it's just lazy and stupid. If I could somehow connect the Joker with socialism, then maybe I could construe it as clever, but as it stands it's just boring. Plus, the "socialist" cry is getting so old. The guy thinks a little bit different than you, you lost the election, get over it.

[Swan]

Speaking of racist, anybody find this trailer racist?

<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/XmlZhrmMAhc&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/XmlZhrmMAhc&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>

[Vampyr]

It's not racist, it's obviously comparing how Obama is trying to destroy society and replace it with socialism, just like the Joker tried to do in Gotham.

Actually I think I missed that comic.

[Typhoid]

I don't think it's racist.
I do however find it to be incredibly stupid - in the same vein as the Bush/Monkey pictures people made.

[Vampyr]

Speaking of racist, anybody find this trailer racist?

<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/XmlZhrmMAhc&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/XmlZhrmMAhc&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>

I thought I was the only one.

[Zen]

I really fail to see how in the world the trailer for the movie is racist.... i think you guys are way too fucking sensitive.

[Bond]

I really fail to see how in the world the trailer for the movie is racist.... i think you guys are way too fucking sensitive.
The trailer plays upon racial stereotypes, which isn't exactly new territory for Disney. I'm not so sure if that qualifies the trailer as racist, but I am also not sure if it is very productive either.

[Swan]

I honestly don't care if the trailer is racist, I just get the feeling Disney is going to inadvertently offend some people with the stereotypes in the film.

[TheGame]

I don't think the original poster is racist.. however I think its stupid, and the graphic alteration of his picture makes no sense.

[Professor S]

It's pretty dumb. The author obviously doesn't understand the difference between socialism and anarchy. Propoganda, at the very least, should to accurate to the point you're attempting to convey.

Now if they had spread around posters like these...

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2008-04-16-fairyobama1.jpg

Because they look so much like this...

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/LENIN%203.jpg

Then it would have been more accurate.

...

What? The Obama campaign made those posters? Really? And the media didn't pick up on it?
Wow.

(and for the record, I don't think the similarity proves anything about his stance on policy, only that his campaign used a LOT of old school propoganda techniques, including Nazi IMO, in their campaign)

[Professor S]

Speaking of racist, anybody find this trailer racist?

<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/XmlZhrmMAhc&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/XmlZhrmMAhc&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>

It's a tough call. Disney is obviously trying to appeal to a minority audience with this movie, but when does targeting become racism? I mean, are Tyler Perry movis racist? Are Shawn and Marlon Wayans? Flava Flav for God's sake??? (the man is a walking minstrel show)

Maybe it's that we assume the creative group is white, and therefore interpret the trailer as racist. In the end, should that even matter?

[TheGame]

What? The Obama campaign made those posters? Really? And the media didn't pick up on it?
Wow.

(and for the record, I don't think the similarity proves anything about his stance on policy, only that his campaign used a LOT of old school propoganda techniques, including Nazi IMO, in their campaign)

Haha just like the media..

"I'm not saying he's hitler, or he's a nazi.. he's just exactly like hitler and nazis... but I'm not saying he is one"

[Professor S]

Haha just like the media..

"I'm not saying he's hitler, or he's a nazi.. he's just exactly like hitler and nazis... but I'm not saying he is one"

You can't really deny the similarities in the ads, and the ads have nothign to do with his policy. And I even went out of my way to point out this has nothing to do with his policies, just his campaign ads' use of old school propogands techniques, because I knew someone would try and twist it into something it's not.

http://students.philau.edu/lane2/obey.jpg

http://bigchase.files.wordpress.com/2007/01/obey.jpg

I think these posters use the same techniques, but I guess I'm accusing Mickey Mouse and Andre the Giant of being just like Hitler and the Nazis...

Thanks for not letting me down, Game. Congratulations... you're typical.

[TheGame]

Thanks for not letting me down, Game. Congratulations... you're typical.

:lol:

In my opinnion, those posters have no link to each other. Other then you're two Obey ones, since they both say.. Obey... I'm just not a fan of the retarded fantasies that your friend Glen Beck has been spreading.

You can call it being typical all you want, I just call it being sane.

[Professor S]

In my opinnion, those posters have no link to each other. Other then you're two Obey ones, since they both say.. Obey... I'm just not a fan of the retarded fantasies that your friend Glen Beck has been spreading.

I must be gifted with the unique ability to see the obvious, then. If you can't see the similarity, you choose not to see it, or you need more ginko biloba or ginseng.

None of that came from Glenn Beck. I found it online with a short Google Images search that took all of 10 seconds. Glenn would have made an argument that the posters reflected political intent, and I don't believe they do. Personally, I think the themes were chosen to give the Obama campaign a general "revolutionary" type of feel, not necessarily communist of fascist (to intend do so would be political suicide), and that falls right in line with his campaign based on Hope and Change.

[Typhoid]

Prof, I don't understand your last post of the "Obey" comparison.
The Mickey Mouse picture is fan art that someone made after seeing this picture:

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g234/jimmythegeek/mickey_mouse.jpg



I mean, you went from Obama on one comparison post, then just random google images on the next.



Also: About the previous comparison, I just think it's fluke. The Obama posters all use the American colours, clearly being Red, White and Blue. If you look hard enough at anything, you can twist something into whatever it's not.

Did Plato really foresee the Iraq war going on, or are people just adding meanings to the words he wrote in order for them to make sense. That type of thing.

[TheGame]

I must be gifted with the unique ability to see the obvious, then. If you can't see the similarity, you choose not to see it, or you need more ginko biloba or ginseng.

I see the somewhat similar colors, but I don't see how it can be used as a reference to how "his campaign used a LOT of old school propoganda techniques". To me they're just two different pictures, that share no greater meaning with each other.

Do you really think people who ran the Obama campaign actually looked back at what made hitler so popular and stole his ideas directly?

[Professor S]

I see the somewhat similar colors, but I don't see how it can be used as a reference to how "his campaign used a LOT of old school propoganda techniques". To me they're just two different pictures, that share no greater meaning with each other.

You are correct, they don't share a meaning, they share a feeling. It's about imagery, not message. It is meant to inspire confidence and strength, not ideology.

Do you really think people who ran the Obama campaign actually looked back at what made hitler so popular and stole his ideas directly?

Not Hitler, but propaganda is general. It just so happens fascist and communist propaganda is considered the most effective. Leni Reifenstahl (Hitler's filmmaker/propagandist) was part of my film classes in college because of her effectiveness and revolutionary techniques.

And Typhoid, the photo has nothing to do with the propaganda, it's what the artist did with the photo is what makes it an example/satire of propaganda.

EDIT: Anyway, my whole point was that if I were to create a propaganda piece to make Obama LOOK like a socialist, it wouldn't be by painting him up with an anarchist, but would be more like the style the campaign actually used because they resemble Lenin propaganda posters of the time. Somehow that point has turned into a complete mess because of people wanting to see more in my comments than I clearly intended. I am not Glenn Beck, but for some reason you people think I do nothing but carry his and Rush Limbaugh's water all day long. I'd appreciate it if people would argue my points, and not what you assume they are due to my party affiliation.

[Bond]

And Typhoid, the photo has nothing to do with the propaganda, it's what the artist did with the photo is what makes it an example/satire of propaganda.
Admittedly off-topic: Speaking of Hitler's propagandists, there was none greater than the masterful Albert Speer:

http://blog.miragestudio7.com/wp-content/uploads2/2007/07/albert_speer_dome_domed_hall_hitler_architect2.jpg

http://www.eikongraphia.com/wordpress/wp-content/Albert_Speer_Parteigelande_Small.jpg

http://img2.allposters.com/images/MEPOD/10062219-FB.jpg

[Professor S]

For the record, his people also used Bauhaus style on his trip the Germany. Bauhaus was also used in a lot of political posters during it's time. Pres. Obama's campaign graphics department always showed itself themselves to be knowledgeable and on point.

http://meaningfuldistractions.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/bauhaus1.jpg

Now because I see this connection, does that mean I think Obama is a German artist?

[Typhoid]

What's the connection?
That all the words happen to be on an upwards slanted angle, just as one of the sentences in the other poster is?

[TheGame]

I am not Glenn Beck, but for some reason you people think I do nothing but carry his and Rush Limbaugh's water all day long. I'd appreciate it if people would argue my points, and not what you assume they are due to my party affiliation.

YOU PEOPLE?! WHAT YOU MEAN YOU PEOPLE?!!?

(kidding)

Honestly I think that you generally make good arguements, and I know you don't play exactly to the republican playbook.. however, I think what you have brought up in this topic was right out of the limbaugh/beck playbook. Just verifying more paranoia about Obama.

[Professor S]

What's the connection?
That all the words happen to be on an upwards slanted angle, just as one of the sentences in the other poster is?

Thats part of it, but the overall use of strong lines and angles juxtaposed with very open curves with the O's and U's etc. and even the fonts are inspired by bauhaus. It's hard to explain unless you've seen a lot of it. I happen to love Bauhaus and Art Deco. Art Nouveau is pretty hot too. :D

[Typhoid]

Thats part of it, but the overall use of strong lines and even the fonts are inspired by bauhaus. It's hard to explain unless you've seen a lot of it. I happen to love Bauhaus and Art Deco.


Well then the comparison you made is pretty weak.

I think if the only basis of "THis is like that" is "One sentance is on an angle" and "They both have lines", then that's a pretty weak comparison.

As I said before, a lot of comparisons of things like this are people looking for them, rather than seeing them.

[Professor S]

Honestly I think that you generally make good arguements, and I know you don't play exactly to the republican playbook.. however, I think what you have brought up in this topic was right out of the limbaugh/beck playbook. Just verifying more paranoia about Obama.

And I've shown how you are wrong about that, and even went out of my way to do so. Don't know what else I can do to help you with that. It is possible to see the similarities between those posters without applying political motive.

Typhoid, I won't argue with you, but it was Obama defenders who first made the connection.

http://meaningfuldistractions.wordpress.com/2008/07/23/md-exclusive-obamas-berlin-flyer-not-messianic-pays-tribute-to-german-design/

[Typhoid]

So I have used the mighty MS Paint to try figure out what comparisons there could possibly be.

So, let's try follow the colour coding.

So from what I can tell, that black lump on the right is represented by the black president, Obama.

The Obama logo on the top right, is a copy of the seal of the poster company/person who made it/minor details on the top right of the other.

The red lump on the right of Obama's black lump is Berlin. Berlin is the red lump because it is signifying how Obama is a fan of socialism and the ways of old Germany.

The line on the right that is slightly going upwards is mimmicked by all the lines on the Obama poster going also slightly upwards. Possibly some type of Commie code, yet to be broken?

However the one line going down on the poster on the right isn't copied at all. Possibly the creators of the Obama poster used invisible ink in order to hide valuable socialist notes that people cannot pick up unless under a blacklight.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/Skeeties/bauhaus1.jpg?t=1250555839

[TheGame]

And I've shown how you are wrong about that

No, you haven't. What you posted was what you posted, you tried to kill the point of why you posted it to begin with... but you still posted it. And what you posted adds to paranoia about Obama and his methods.

You're just like Rush or Beck saying.. "I don't thin Obama is like Hitler... but let me tell you about ways that Obama is like Hitler.. or but just so you get this clear I don't think Obama is hitler... but look at these examples of how he is like him! Obama! Hitler! Socialism! Obama! Marxist! Socialism! Obama! Hitler! Idealist!... Did I mention Obama?"

Especially when you consider the nature of how some nutcases are reacting to Obama, why would you waste your time posting something like that?

[Professor S]

*sigh*

I'm going to go play TF2.

[Combine 017]

Haha just like the media..

"I'm not saying he's hitler, or he's a nazi.. he's just exactly like hitler and nazis... but I'm not saying he is one"

You got a problem with Hitler and Nazis?

[Swan]

You got a problem with Hitler and Nazis?

At least you know how to divert the anger

[Professor S]

My last word will be this:

When have any of you known me to be shy about expressing my real opinions? The idea that I would suddenly resort to double talk to hide my true feelings is a bit silly. If there is one motto I live by, it's this: Say what you mean, and mean what you say.

[The Germanator]

Back on topic as much as possible....Some quotes from the artist himself. Interesting to note that he claims he didn't add the "socialism" part.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2009/08/obama_joker_artist_revealed.html?sc=fb&cc=fp

[Teuthida]

Just skimmed thread. The Hope picture was made independently by the artist Shepard Fairy (a lot of his paintings have the sort of imagery), not by or for the Obama campaign team.

Because the Hope poster had been "perpetuated illegally" and independently by the street artist, the Obama campaign could not risk any direct affiliation with it.

http://obeygiant.com/fine-art


What really bothers me about that Joker pic is it's not centered.

[The Germanator]

Just skimmed thread. The Hope picture was made independently by the artist Shepard Fairy (a lot of his paintings have the sort of imagery), not by or for the Obama campaign team.



http://obeygiant.com/fine-art

I have some video of him doing one of those pieces in Austin, TX on a huge mural wall when we were at SXSW. It was very cool watching him do his work knowing he did the Obama picture.

[Professor S]

Just skimmed thread. The Hope picture was made independently by the artist Shepard Fairy (a lot of his paintings have the sort of imagery), not by or for the Obama campaign team.



http://obeygiant.com/fine-art

Interesting. Maybe I am confusing some pop art with official campaign posters. I still believe the two posters share striking resemblances and the HOPE poster in question was inspired by propaganda, but I'll remove my claim that the Obama campaign itself used communist and Nazi-style propaganda techniques because at this point I can't confidently determine what is official and what was an artist's tribute.

I still stand by my belief that they did, in fact, use Bauhaus inspiration for the German poster, as evil/racist/biased as that may make me :D

[manasecret]

McCain version with HERO instead of HOPE.

http://djsoundwav.deviantart.com/art/McCain-Hero-Poster-100878175

Whatever you may think of him and who you may have voted for, I agree that McCain is an American Hero.

--

On topic, no I don't think it's racist. Good to hear the story from the artist's point of view, especially that he thinks the addition of "socialist" is pretty stupid.

[manasecret]

Just skimmed thread. The Hope picture was made independently by the artist Shepard Fairy (a lot of his paintings have the sort of imagery), not by or for the Obama campaign team.



http://obeygiant.com/fine-art


What really bothers me about that Joker pic is it's not centered.

An interesting letter from someone that I found on that website:

Subject: On the topic of U.S. Socialism

The city and area where I live has a socialized police department, a socialized fire department (that uses our socialized fire hydrants), socialized water treatment facilities, a socialized public works department that cares for the socialized trees planted in our socialized roadway medians, a socialized zoo, a socialized convention hotel, socialized sports arenas, socialized hiking trails, biking trails, soccer fields, tennis courts, football fields and basketball courts for those who want to do more than just watch socialized sporting events, a socialized pound for the animals who overuse our socialized dog parks, a socialized streets system with socialized traffic lights and socialized stop signs, a socialized public transportation system, a socialized sanitation department that delivers garbage to our socialized trash dump and socialized recycling sorting facility, several socialized airports, a smattering of socialized water reservoirs (we call them socialized lakes, stocked with socialized fish), a socialized homeless center, socialized housing, a socialized public school system, socialized children’s meals programs, a socialized library system, more than five socialized campuses for higher education, a socialized jobs training center, a socialized civil courts system, a socialized criminal courts system that sentences people to one of several socialized jails, a socialized arts program, a socialized parks department that maintains more than a dozen socialized swimming pools, a socialized CNG filling station for the benefit of our socialized fleet of cars, and it provides socialized loans to small businesses while socialized electrical lines help keep the lights on for those working inside.

We even have a socialized yearly Fourth of July fireworks display.

Thank God we’ve held the line on not giving 50 million uninsured people a public health insurance option just for the sake of staying as far away from the socialist boogeyman as possible.

Chin up on the Obama illustration hate mail; the fight’s a good one and completely worth it. –M.EDIT: I guess I should give the context. This was a apparently an email sent to the artist at the website for moral support. Fairey, the artist, did an Obama image for a Rolling Stone cover and got tons of admittedly typical (for the internet) hate responses, along the lines of he and Obama are socialist/Nazi/the Antichrist and he must have sucked Obama's cock, etc., which made Fairey a sad bear. He posted about 20 of said hate comments, and then I suppose got that letter (above) as moral support, and then posted it as well below the hate comments. So it's more a respone to the hateful wing-nuts than the legitimate arguments against a public healthcare option.

I'm trying to retrace my steps but for some reason I don't remember how I got to that page. It appeared to be his blog.

EDIT2: Oh, duh, it's right there at the bottom of his main page.

[Bond]

Speaking of propaganda...

[Professor S]

Mana, the author forgot to mention the crippling socialized debt...

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/FWOsbGP5Ox4&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/FWOsbGP5Ox4&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[thatmariolover]

I just think associating Obama with Socialism is almost as inaccurate as associating The Joker with it.

[BreakABone]

Maybe, we are reading the poster backwards.

And its actually the Joker dressed up as Obama... saying that Joker is the Hope Gotham needs.

[thatmariolover]

Maybe, we are reading the poster backwards.

And its actually the Joker dressed up as Obama... saying that Joker is the Hope Gotham needs.

Win. Thread over.

[Professor S]

I just think associating Obama with Socialism is almost as inaccurate as associating The Joker with it.

This assertion intrigues me, since I think it's pretty clear that Pres. Obama has shown to lean more towards socialist/fascist solutions to problems and not capitalist. Once again, thats not to say he's a socialist or a fascist, but when problems arise he seems to default to government control rather than economic freedom, and that tendency certainly doesn't fall into the realm of capitalism. Also, I think we can at least make more of a connection between Obama and socialism than Obama and anarchism if we were forced to make the association (I can't think of one policy that you could remotely compare to anarchy).

To Everyone:

Looking at the definitions of the following "isms", which do you think President Obama's economic policies resemble most considering his administration's reaction to the recession, the investment banks and car industry in particular? He must have more in common with one area than the others, in your opinion. I'd encourage you to keep to the economic portions of the debate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

Also, there is no pejorative associated with any of these answers. I'd prefer to have clarity in this case than agreement.

EDIT: If I missed any "isms" please feel free to post them.

[TheGame]

Prof I'm curious. What's your opinion of Bush and Clinton? What has Barrack Obama pushed for that neither of them would have?

[Bond]

EDIT: If I missed any "isms" please feel free to post them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cronyism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objectivism_(Ayn_Rand)

Not exactly primary "isms," but important none-the-less.

[Professor S]

Prof I'm curious. What's your opinion of Bush and Clinton? What has Barrack Obama pushed for that neither of them would have?

Please don't change the subject. I've asked a fair question and I'd like you to answer it. If you like, we can address your topic after mine is addressed.

[TheGame]

Well, my answer that we've been dealing with both conservative socialists, and liberal socialists. They go about things different ways, but in the end everyone is pushing us towards socialism. Which is why I posed the question.

However, that's just my opinion, I'm curious what yours is.

[KillerGremlin]

Speaking of racist, anybody find this trailer racist?

<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/XmlZhrmMAhc&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/XmlZhrmMAhc&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>

I think to a degree you could argue that it has racist undertones. That question popped into my head while seeing the trailer. The thing is I don't think the movie is racist (although I haven't seen it), nor do I think the preview is racist. That is to say, I think what makes it racist is mostly up to interpretation. It's a kids movie so whatever. Disney has done worse.

[Professor S]

Well, my answer that we've been dealing with both conservative socialists, and liberal socialists. They go about things different ways, but in the end everyone is pushing us towards socialism. Which is why I posed the question.

However, that's just my opinion, I'm curious what yours is.

Well, while Bush did push the spending up a good bit, I don't think the nature of his spending ever went in the direction of owning portions of private companies, unlawfully terminating contracts to stakeholders or worse yet, "firing" the CEO's of privately held companies. I think we can confiendently say Bush would never have made those decisions, whether or not you view them as the appropriate actions. It just so happens those actions bounce between being socialist and fascist, and in ways that have never been done before, or not since FDR.

In other social spending, Bush funded a LOT of private charity with public funds, including religious groups. Pres. Obama seems to want to put those funds towards public groups instead, like AmeriCorps.

As for healthcare, Bush pushed for mainly private plans such as health savings accounts instead of a universal public option. In social security, Bush also pushed for privatization as opposed to socialization. This was probably his greatest failure as a president (domestically, not changing tactics in Iraq was his greatest overall failure).

When it comes to the economy, Bush was hands-off, and I think he viewed it as being it's own boom to self-correcting bust animal.

As for Clinton, he too failed to install a universal public option, but when it comes to free trade and the economy, he was pretty hands off as well with Alan Greenspan having more say than he did, IMO. Clinton is a tough comparison, though, because so much of his presidency was without severe issues like Bush and Obama has experienced. It's difficult top say what he would have done in Obama's place.

IMO, the only person to compare President Obama to is really FDR in terms of policy... maybe LBJ or Carter, but even Carter never thought to intervene in the direct running of private industry.

But history is history, and this topic is about Pres. Obama's current policies, and their nature, not an attempt to cast blame or view that nature in a negative light or to change the subject to the policies of someone else.

[Seth]

The poster isn't racist. I perceived it as clearly pointing out the big fucking joke.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=14826

I wouldn't compare Obama to Hitler beyond the type of crowd atmosphere he draws. Little freaky imo.

[Professor S]

I wouldn't compare Obama to Hitler beyond the type of crowd atmosphere he draws. Little freaky imo.

Well then it's a good thing no one did.

[Teuthida]

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This is just plain messed up.
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[Seth]

I was just thinking about what TheGame said concerning media talking their bullshit, not about what anyone said specifically in this thread about an actual comparison. just to clarify.

[The Germanator]

First: Barney Frank is the man

Second: Are these town hall meetings making anyone else worried about America? I mean, I appreciate free speech, but can't we do it without going fucking insane? That woman in the second video...there are just no words for the ignorance and hatred. Shame on you is right, yeesh.

[TheGame]

I couldn't find the actual news clip, but here's one from a left wing radio show.

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Don't mind the comentary too much.. even though I agree with what he is saying.

(There's also another story where a guy brought a AK-47 to a town hall meeting.)

This is in part why I don't agree with all of this imagry that's being shown on TV and people trying to act like Obama's some evil dictator or something even when he hasn't done much of anything yet that the majority american people don't agree with.

I think eventually someone is going to do something very stupid, and it's going to cause more freedoms to be taken away in the long run.

[Fox 6]

I didnt watch the whole thing so i dont know if it was mentioned, but there were also 2 men with AR-15s too.

[Vampyr]

People like that are hilarious because they can't see how ridiculously stupid they are.

[Bond]

Second: Are these town hall meetings making anyone else worried about America? I mean, I appreciate free speech, but can't we do it without going fucking insane? That woman in the second video...there are just no words for the ignorance and hatred. Shame on you is right, yeesh.
Well, I think to some degree the "out of control" town halls are being greatly exaggerated by the sensationalist media. Also, one has to assume the majority of these town halls are being held during the day. Who is available during the day? The elderly and unemployed. Passion is overwhelming rationality.

[TheGame]

Well, I think to some degree the "out of control" town halls are being greatly exaggerated by the sensationalist media.

I don't know Bond.. what exactly has to happen before it's not seen as an exaggeration? Do the people with assault rifles need to let some rounds loose?

I'll admit that the responce by Barney Frank sounded a little set up.. But it doesn't change that these extremely ignorant people are showing up with those offensive posters, asking stupid questions, and trying to drown out opposing views.

[Professor S]

1) The gun thing, while a concern and should be monitored, it severely overblown. The story about the guy with the gun was journalism at it's worst. If he had it hidden under a coat and was trying to sneak in to the meeting, then it should have been given the attention TYT gave it, but then again, it's TYT. Did anyone ask why he decided to wear his licensed gun? My guess is that he was making a non-verbal statement about 2nd amendment rights because of Presdient Obama' background in Illinois when ti comes to gun rights, not intending on threatening President Obama's life. If anything, it's likely a cultural misunderstanding.

2) Yes, there are nutjobs at these meetings, but have you ever been to or seen a leftist protest where they literaly have assaulted the vehicles that President Bush and his entourage rode in or burned his image in effigy? Lets not pretend this is solely a problem on the right. At least so far these protesters have only expressed themselves verbally. I mainly chalk it up to poorly thought out expressions of discontent, but anti-semites and the like and not reflective of the majority of these people, IMO

3) Working from home several days a week, I've seen many of the town halls broadcast live and like Bond stated, the media is playing up the most irate people because its more entertaining. There are a lot of very good questions that are not being answered honestly in the process, and that is only adding to the catcalls and outrage.

4) Speaking of dismising dissent and drowning out opposing views, the democrats aren't doing themelves a favor by accusing THEIR dissenters of not having their own opinions and dismissing them as "astroturf" and only speaking because their Republican masters told them to. If I were them, I'd feel ignored, disenfranchied and angry too. The problem is that anger is not productive.

[Teuthida]

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i290/teuthida/socialist-spider-man.jpg

[Professor S]

I can't see photo-bucket at work, but seeing the URL (socialist spiderman) I imagine is hilarious :lol:

People are weird.

[TheGame]

I don't know prof, when you consider the sign the guy was holding along with having his gun, it seemed like an obvious threat or attempt at intimidation.

[Professor S]

Oops, somehow I didn't catch the sign (in hindsight I'm not sure how, I might have only been listening to the video and not watching it), only the gun. You're right, he's a nutter, even if he means it just to put a point across. I hope the FBI is looking into him, quite honestly.

I retract point one.

[KillerGremlin]

Evidently the original artist of that Obama poster goes to UIC. Apparently the picture was stolen and "socialism" was added to it. There was an psuedo-interview with the artist, and I think (I skimmed...will get back later) the intentions where not racist or to suggest Obama is socialist.

[KillerGremlin]

http://media.www.chicagoflame.com/media/storage/paper519/news/2009/08/24/News/Uic-Students.Art.Becomes.National.Topic-3755924.shtml

Firas Alkhateeb was your typical, anonymous college student until a few weeks ago, when someone took artwork from his Flickr account and created a national controversy out of them. Alkhateeb had taken a cover of Time magazine featuring Barack Obama and transformed him into Heath Ledger's Joker. Someone else then took his image from Flickr, added "Socialist" underneath, and plastered it around southern California. The Flame caught up with Alkhateeb last week for an exclusive interview.

Flame: Where were you born? On Facebook, you list San Mateo as your hometown but everyone calls you "a college student from Chicago."

FA: I was born in California (the San Francisco Bay Area) and lived in that area (San Mateo area) for 7 years. When I was 7 I moved to Chicago and have lived in Chicago and the suburbs since.

Flame: Critics have alleged that your spoof "depicting the president as demonic and a socialist goes beyond political spoofery [and] is mean-spirited and dangerous." What do you say to your critics?

FA: I think I saw that quote in the Guardian newspaper from the UK two weeks ago when the story first came out and they didn't know who was behind the original photoshop. A lot of the people who have problems with the Obama-as-Joker image are people who would enjoy Bush-as-Hitler images or something similar. The great thing about art - particularly political art - is that it can be a very effective medium through which to propagate an idea. Just because someone doesn't agree with a particular point of view expressed, doesn't entitle them to label it dangerous. What good is our First Amendment if we can't express political viewpoints? Everyone has a political ideology and to each his own. If someone else wants to overreact, it's not my problem.

Flame: Are you at all interested in suing anyone for marketing the picture you made on t-shirts over the Internet?

FA: I can't comment on any legal issues about the poster, as all of that is still ongoing.

Flame: In one article, you are portrayed as supporting Obama -- in another, you say you didn't vote for him and didn't want people to know about the picture you drew because you don't want to offend the "very, very liberal" Chicagoans who support him, but then other stories add that you are a big Kucinich fan. Can you clarify your political views?

FA: I support Obama in that I want him and his efforts to succeed so the nation can get out of our current economic situation. I don't agree with alot of his domestic policies and didn't vote for him (or anyone) as a sort of protest against the electoral system that had given Obama Illinois pretty much before the election. Me "supporting" Dennis Kucinich has been blown way out of proportion. I agree with some of his ideas, but certainly not all. I've been described as a far leftist as well as a conservative, but the truth is I'd consider myself moderate and avoid supporting either political party - instead, I support or oppose individual issues.

Flame: What inspired you to study history?

FA: I don't have a concentration in history yet, I just transferred into the major and fall will be my first semester in the program. I've spent three years in civil engineering before this. I'm studying history because it's something I have a passion for and really enjoy reading about.

They don't really address his intentions for making the original picture...I still don't see the Joker/Socialist connection. I think this whole thing has been blown....err...overboard.