I No Longer Bleed Green

[Professor S]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4397938

Fuck the Philadelphia Eagles. I'm so pissed right now...

[The Germanator]

Yeah, I was completely shocked at this announcement. Knowing the Eagles, Michael Vick was seriously the last person I would ever expect them to sign. Honestly, this sucks. I hope he never sees the field.

[Typhoid]

The sad thing is, he'll be their starter.

[The Germanator]

The sad thing is, he'll be their starter.

There's no way. McNabb is the clear starter and will be for a couple of years. They will use Vick in the Wildcat formation though and unfortunately that's actually a pretty good idea because he can run and throw. From a football standpoint, it's a good move, but from a moral standpoint my guts are churning, I'm still not able to forgive the guy.

[Typhoid]

I sort of think they stocked up on Vick so maybe they can unload McNabb (or possibly Vick, but who would trade for him?) onto another team and get some prospects, or a solid player.

[The Germanator]

That just doesn't really make any sense. You wouldn't make a guy your new starter who has been in jail and hasn't played in two years over the best quarterback the franchise has ever had. And they just gave McNabb a new contract. Vick is a more solid backup than Kolb and they'll use him in some different kinds of formations, but he won't start unless McNabb goes down with an injury, which is actually somewhat likely.

[Bond]

Honestly, I wouldn't be a fan of a team that signed Michael Vick.

I know the Packers were looking at possibly signing him, and that probably would have ended my fandom. There are certain lines that just shouldn't be crossed.

[ZebraRampage]

This really sucks..I don't know what to do now. I just can't figure out what the Eagles decision was based on. It is probably because they want a better backup quarterback than Kolb, and the probability of McNabb getting hurt is high. Both of these guesses have been mentioned by other members, so I'm just agreeing with them.

[Fox 6]

:(

He needs to put put into a cage with about 15 starving pitbulls

[manasecret]

With sports, forgiveness is won on the field. In the end, his forgiveness with Eagle fans will be earned or lost depending on if he makes that last second quarterback sneak touchdown to win the game, or whether he fumbles instead to lose the game.

[KillerGremlin]

Wow, I totally missed this thread. Sorry guys.

I think McNabb should be the starter. On the other hand, seems like McNabb takes a ton of shit from the whole Philly organization. That's too bad because he is a talented athlete and seemingly a classy guy. I mean, no offense to all you Philly people, but if McNabb gets traded I wish him the best and hope he gets traded to a city that appreciates his talent a little more.

On the other hand, I think more than likely we will see McNabb play all season and Vick get introduced as an option or something? Perhaps they can come up with some sick McNabb/Vick combo and put Vick out there as a receiver or something. Imagine the possibilities.

[TheGame]

I missed this thread too. I think philly did a good thing by giving him a shot.

Some activists won't be happy with vick unless he kills himself for what he did. In my opinion, as long as he's making use of what he's gifted at, and using it to pay off his debt and repent for what he has done.. then I can't complain.

The way I see it, he could be a jackass and not do anything, and he still would have been signed probably. Throwing away the 100+ million left in his old contract and serving 2 years in prison is enough in my book alone. But he made the decision to take that, and move foward with still helping the community. So as long as he doesn't go back on his word, I support philly's decision.

[The Germanator]

Wow, I totally missed this thread. Sorry guys.

I think McNabb should be the starter. On the other hand, seems like McNabb takes a ton of shit from the whole Philly organization. That's too bad because he is a talented athlete and seemingly a classy guy. I mean, no offense to all you Philly people, but if McNabb gets traded I wish him the best and hope he gets traded to a city that appreciates his talent a little more.

On the other hand, I think more than likely we will see McNabb play all season and Vick get introduced as an option or something? Perhaps they can come up with some sick McNabb/Vick combo and put Vick out there as a receiver or something. Imagine the possibilities.

McNabb will be the starter. I'm not sure what you mean when you say "he gets shit from the whole organization." Reid has been overly faithful to McNabb throughout his career because they got to Philly at the same time. Sure, he got benched last year, but he deserved to get benched. If he was your starting QB, you would have wanted him benched, but hey, he turned it around and got his contract reworked for more money, that's not so bad.

I will agree that the fans have been tougher on him than necessary, at least if you listen to sports talk radio that's what you'll hear. I'm a firm believer that McNabb's the best QB the franchise has ever had, and I love him as a player, and I think a lot of people feel that way too. Sometimes you just hear the opposite of that because people always want to paint Philly sports fans as a bunch of assholes. And hey, some people are, we're the town that just killed a guy in the Phillies parking lot, but a lot of people are just passionate about winning.

As for how they'll use Vick, by the time he is reinstated I think he'll be #2 on the depth chart over Kevin Kolb. If McNabb gets hurt, Vick will be right in there. But I bet you see Vick in 5 or 6 plays a game even with McNabb as the starter. Whether he becomes a decoy, runs, or actually throws the ball, he'll be something the defense has to prepare for. I'm excited to see how Reid works him in there.

[Bond]

Can Vick even play this year? I thought I heard somewhere that Goodell still has to give him the okay to play during the regular season.

[The Germanator]

Can Vick even play this year? I thought I heard somewhere that Goodell still has to give him the okay to play during the regular season.

"Once the season begins, Vick may participate in all team activities except games, and Goodell said he would consider Vick for full reinstatement by Week 6 (Oct. 18-19). "

Basically, if Vick doesn't really really screw up, he'll probably be playing by week 6. The guy has done some idiotic and atrocious things, but he'd really have to have nuclear grade stupidity to do something to cause Goodell to not reinstate him. Even though I hope he helps the team, I wouldn't necessarily put it past him, so we'll see.

He's definitely playing in next Thursday's preseason game if anyone is curious.

[Bond]

Interesting. If he can't play until Week 6 at the earliest, I wonder if he'll be added as a WR instead of a QB. I can't see him being a reliable 2nd or even 3rd string QB when you consider how long he was out of football and the fact he'll have to learn the Eagle's playbook.

[TheGame]

I think not allowing him to play by Week 6 actually helps him more to get adjusted with the team.. if he were to actually play any earlier I could see him coming out alot more rusty.

[Typhoid]

I have a new love for the Dolphins now, just for the fact they picked up a linebacker (Played here as a DE) in the off-season named Cameron Wake.

He played for the Lions in the CFL, got the rookie-of-the-year award and the Defensive Player of the Year award in 2007 - the only person to get both in the same year.

2007 BC Tackles-72 Sacks-16
2008 BC Tackles-65 Sacks-23


I love this man.
That is all.

[TheGame]

Vick did decent his first game. Fans sure didn't mind him

[Professor S]

I wouldn't know because I didn't watch. Those that mind aren't there to boo.

[Vampyr]

I'm not sure what kind of people actually applaud this guy.

[Bond]

You know there is a problem with society when values and morals are overshadowed by someone playing football.

[TheGame]

You know there is a problem with society when values and morals are overshadowed by someone playing football.

So forgiving someone for a mistake they made and allowing them a second chance is immoral?

Wasting your time worrying about someone did in the past all the time, never forgiving them or giving them a chance is the right thing to do? Even after they did their time in jail and payed out the ass for it?

[Professor S]

The question is: Would everyone be so forgiving if he didn't play pro football? The answer is no.

People sold their morals for the chance of their team winning professional sporting events.

[Vampyr]

There's a difference between a "mistake" and what he did.

[TheGame]

The question is: Would everyone be so forgiving if he didn't play pro football? The answer is no.

Possibly. But a lot of people still haven't forgiven him dispite him being a pro football player. In fact, he gets a bigger negative reaction then any normal guy would get who did the same thing. If you count the potential money he could have made, and the money he actually lost.. he's likely paid for it more then any other man who's ever commited the same crime. Not to mention his dirty laundry is going to follow him around for the rest of his life on the public stage.

If he wasn't a pro football player, would you even know or care about him commiting this crime? A lot of fast food places are known for hiring people with a criminal record, have people even considered not going to them for that fact?

So yeah.. I'm just kinda on the side of forgiving him and giving him a second chance personally. I just feel like he did his time for it, now he deserves a chance to use his gift and influence for good. I dont think FORGIVING someone who did their time already is immoral...

[Professor S]

If it's genuine, then I don't see the immorality, and in fact I'd view it as being downright Christian, but I contend that for the vast majority of those so quick to forgive, it's not out of kindness but some absurd loyalty to a sporting franchise. An ends justify the the means mentality, which is the essence of immorality.

[Typhoid]

The man has served his debt. He did time, and for godssake he's bankrupt.
Yes, what he did - not good. But as it's said, he did his time. That doesn't make up for what he did, but it's not like he's running around going "Ha Ha, I almost got away with that shit, motherfuckers!" The man just wants to play football, and in making the allusions that the rest of his life should be terrible and everyone on the planet should outright hate him is asinine.

[TheGame]

I think it boils down to how high in regard people hold the value of those pit bull's lives. I can understand why people who care a lot about animals are not ready to forgive him. A lot of people would see a homeless starving cat out on the street and help them, but if they see a homeless starving man they wouldn't touch them with a 10 foot pole. (I'm the type who wouldn't do anything for either!)

Vick killed those dogs brutally, and had fun while doing it. For some people he might as well killed other people... which in my book would be hard to forgive. So I understand them somewhat there.

And I understand that some people are quicker to forgive him if he's on their home team, and how that can be annoying to people who really hate Vick for what he did.

So I see where people are coming from.. I just am personally ready to forgive him.

[Vampyr]

There are some things I can forgive people for and some that I can't. Almost all of the time there are enough shades of gray involved to at least see it from the other person's point of view and to be able to forgive them. Examples include doing drugs, robbery, selling drugs, and even murder if done in self defense or to protect someone close to you.

There are other things that require a serious personal flaw in one's being to commit. Examples of this include being a serial killer, rape, and child molestation. And what he did.

It isn't my fault that he was in the public eye and therefore suffers more punishment and accusations than an average person. He was getting paid enough to face the consequences of what comes along with that.

Forgiveness is a funny thing. It shouldn't be like saying "it's ok, lets forget the past." It would be like "It's not ok what you did, but I'm ready to let you work to make up for it." People who applaud him at games, and what you guys are saying, have done the former, not the latter. Or maybe you have done the latter, but playing good at football is not enough to make up for it.

And besides, I have a good feeling he isn't sorry for what he did, he's just sorry he got caught doing it and his good times are over.

[TheGame]

And besides, I have a good feeling he isn't sorry for what he did, he's just sorry he got caught doing it and his good times are over.

I've heard that from a lot of people. I'm curious though, what would he have to do to prove to you that he's sorry for what he did?

[Typhoid]

Forgiveness is a funny thing. It shouldn't be like saying "it's ok, lets forget the past." It would be like "It's not ok what you did, but I'm ready to let you work to make up for it." People who applaud him at games, and what you guys are saying, have done the former, not the latter.


Um, what?

Just because they applaud him doesn't mean they've forgotten the past.
There is the ability to separate Vick the person, from Vick the football player. And that is what I believe the people were doing.

If you have a good player at any sport, who is a mass murderer. Does that suddenly make them bad at that sport? No, they'd still be a really good player. Bad person. Good player.

And besides, I have a good feeling he isn't sorry for what he did, he's just sorry he got caught doing it and his good times are over.

Most people who break the law (to an extensive degree) are never sorry for what they did. Being sorry shows signs of morality and guilt. If they had that in the first place, they wouldn't have committed the acts. They're all just sorry they got caught. They can be sorry for what they did because it resulted of a life in prison, however. But that's beside the point.

The bottom line is, like I said - Vick is a good player. When he's on the field he's not auditioning for "Best Human being in the world", he's a quarterback, auditioning for a starter spot on a roster, and it's 100% okay for people to cheer for him.

[TheGame]

I've heard that from a lot of people. I'm curious though, what would he have to do to prove to you that he's sorry for what he did?

I just asked my girlfriend this.. and she said he'd have hang himself to prove it to her. Lmao, that's pretty bad.

[Vampyr]

Well I basically already said that, for me, there's nothing he could do. I think it's a basic flaw in his person.

And I never made any claims to the statistics of how many people are really sorry for doing something bad.

Also, I disagree that you can separate the player from the person. I would need an actual reason to want that person to win in order to cheer for the player.

[Typhoid]

I would need an actual reason to want that person to win in order to cheer for the player.

Being a good player isn't a reason?