How Do You Defend Your Home?

[Bond]

Gun? No gun?

Security system? No system?

Locked doors? Open doors?

[Acebot44]

http://stylecrave.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/18.jpg (http://stylecrave.com/2008-10-27/bedside-defense/)

[Angrist]

In the fictional case of a zombie apocalypse, I presume?

[Professor S]

Right now we just lock our doors, but I'll be getting a gun soon (or in my case, retrieving my firearms from my parents house). All you need to see how vulnerable you are is to be woken up in the middle of the night to the sound of broken glass. Thank God it was just my storm door slamming in high winds. But until I discovered that fact, I had to operate on the assumption that someone was breaking in, and I've never lamented not having a gun on me until that moment. Walking down the stairs to face the unknown with nothing but a folded up hamper frame is not enjoyable.

Until that moment I would have laughed at people who reacted like I did, but something changes when you are married and own a home... it's all up to you. Your home, your family... it's all on you if someone breaks in and wants to do harm.

When it comes right down to it, the only person who can defend yourself and your family is you. Cops can't get there fast enough and the justice system punishes, it doesn't protect. That said, I know how to operate firearms and how to properly store and safeguard them. I grew up with guns in the house and was taught the utmost respect for them and their power. I wouldn't advise anyone to own a gun unless the are responsible enought to take the proper measures and educate themselves on their use and treatment.

[The Germanator]

At my parents house we don't even lock our door. We're pretty out there in the country and I've never really felt threatened. Sometimes if I spend the night there alone it is slightly nerve-wracking, but I think the front door doesn't even have a functional lock.

At our new studio space we installed a security system. With thousands of dollars worth of gear it is definitely worth the cost for the peace of mind that we aren't going to lose it all. I'll definitely feel safe when we leave on tour for a few weeks.

[Professor S]

At my parents house we don't even lock our door. We're pretty out there in the country and I've really felt threatened. Sometimes if I spend the night there alone it is slightly nerve-wracking, but I think the front door doesn't even have a functional lock.

My parents are the same way. They live in a pretty rural area, and my dad's thoughts are that if they drove all the way out there to rob them, they're aren't a target of convenience and they're getting in, so he'd rather not pay for a broken door or window on top of whatever they steal.

[Combine 017]

Im going to go with guns... lots of guns.

[Teuthida]

A moat. A dragon. And a 1000 year old curse.

[manasecret]

At my parents house we don't even lock our door. We're pretty out there in the country and I've really felt threatened. Sometimes if I spend the night there alone it is slightly nerve-wracking, but I think the front door doesn't even have a functional lock.

My dad is the same way but he lives in the city, in a suburban neighborhood that is not exactly the highest class one around. I think we've had two or three bikes stolen in that neighborhood while I was growing up. His thought-process is that if someone really wants to get in then a lock is not going to stop them.

Which I think is stupid. Most petty criminals IMO probably usually only commit crimes of opportunity. For example, most people if they saw a laptop in the backseat of a locked car, probably wouldn't bother breaking the window to steal it. But what if the door were unlocked? Or, what if you left it in the bed of your truck? Now that person thinking about stealing it, even a person who wouldn't normally steal anything, has to make a stark decision between their desire for something and their conscience telling them what's right and wrong, instead of just making the decision for them by locking the car. You're just asking someone to take it. Kind of the same reason Napster (or its equivalent) was/is so popular.

As for me, I have nothing more than a couple locked doors and my hope for humanity protecting me and my home.

[Angrist]

I always lock my doors. I have 2, one leads to the corridor, the other leads to the real world. I don't have any weapons, unless you count the content of my kitchen drawer. The one (already small) window that's always open at night has 2 security bars. So unless they take a few minutes to unscrew it, there's no easy way of getting in.

I like zombie threads better by the way.

[DeathsHand]

We lock our doors, though this area of Arlington is extremely safe...

The house whose pantry I lived in for 3 months was never locked... Night, day, home, vacant... Mostly because they didn't have a key to the front door.

Though if I moved to a new area, bought a house, started a family, etc. I could see myself shoving a gun in the closet, loaded, rigged up with a string on the trigger, pointing directly at the wife's side of the bed.
Just in case.

[manasecret]

Though if I moved to a new area, bought a house, started a family, etc. I could see myself shoving a gun in the closet, loaded, rigged up with a string on the trigger, pointing directly at the wife's side of the bed.
Just in case.

Nice! Stick it to your future wife! ;)

[Angrist]

It's best to be honest from the start. Good basis for a healthy relationship.

[Vampyr]

Right now we just lock our door, both the bolt and a latch. I will probably own a gun in the future, though...same reasons Prof S outlined.

I was back at home alone one time last summer, and I thought I heard someone moving around on the other end of the house. I went into my brother's bedroom, which is right across the hall from mine, and he collects swords/weapons.

So I ended up stalking through the house with a huge a broadsword.

There was no one there, and I have no idea what the noise was, but it was pretty terrifying. But I think if I had found them they might have been so flabbergasted by the sight of a guy with a medieval broad sword I might get the jump on them.

[TheGame]

I don't live in a house, I actually live in a apartment complex, and the only way into my apartment is the front door since I'm on the second floor. To be honest, I've never felt threatened by the idea of someone trying to break into this place. There's simply too many windows that can be watching my front door at once.

(That works against me when I bring a lady over, then my neighbors want to question me about it.)

Plus.. once someone breaks in.. what is there to steal? I don't have little electronic devices, jewelery.. getting the big screen down the stairs would be a bitch.. And why would someone steal weights? I don't even own a new video game console.

The worst thing that could happen is someone trying to rob me directly.. and I carry little to no cash on me, so it'd be easy to play off that I'm broke. And if they didn't have a gun, I'd just kick their ass.. easy enough.

-EDIT-

If I got a house, and was married with kids or something.. then I'd want a gun and security system.

[Szymon]

If I had a wife and kids I'd ask em to lock the door. At this point, if I was getting robbed I would probably stay in bed and ask the robber(s) to keep the noise down if they were being too loud.

[Angrist]

What's with all the gun love? As a European I find it hard to understand.

I mean, I try to, and I do understand the reasoning behind it... but Europe is gunless and we still manage to protect our houses.

[Vampyr]

What's with all the gun love? As a European I find it hard to understand.

I mean, I try to, and I do understand the reasoning behind it... but Europe is gunless and we still manage to protect our houses.

I think the idea is that someone breaking in probably would be carrying a gun (if they don't care to break the law to get into your house, then they probably don't care to break the law and carry a weapon).

So it doesn't matter what you do to protect yourself or your home you aren't going to be able to do that against someone with a gun unless you yourself have one.

Unless you are a jedi with a lightsaber or something and can somehow block bullets.

[BreakABone]

Is it just me or does this seem like a thread for Bond to gather intelligence on everyone's defenses... I think he is looking to rob you folks, but don't quote me on it.

[Professor S]

What's with all the gun love? As a European I find it hard to understand.

I mean, I try to, and I do understand the reasoning behind it... but Europe is gunless and we still manage to protect our houses.

I believe Europe is a pretty "gunless" society, meaning that there aren't many guns circulating and if you wish to buy one legally it's generally pretty hard. That makes the odds oif being robbed/assaulted with a firearm much lower.

In the US, the gun genie is out of the bottle, with plenty being available and circulating, legally and illegally. Even if we were to ban guns, there are so many out there already it wouldn't affect criminals much at this point, IMO, and if the criminal element is going to be armed the legal element should be as well.

Also, America is very much a gun culture. We are children of violent, if reluctant, revolution. It's in our Constitution and for a long time it was considered a civic duty to own a firearm because it was the society itself that was the last lines of American defense. Times have changed, but that does not make the existing firearms disappear that were a product of previous eras.

[Angrist]

I always just assume that a robber is after my possessions, not after my life. If I don't have a gun, I am less of a threat to him. I'd rather have him steal my stuff than us waving our guns at each other.

[Vampyr]

I always just assume that a robber is after my possessions, not after my life. If I don't have a gun, I am less of a threat to him. I'd rather have him steal my stuff than us waving our guns at each other.

I would probably act under the assumption that anyone who is going to stoop to robbing you isn't far from killing you in order to protect themselves. Your presence could easily be enough for him to shoot you if he is armed. I mean think about it - do you think the guy will just leave you there after he steals your stuff, knowing you could call the police and report him the moment he leaves?

Thieves are generally extremely nervous about getting caught, that's why having a sign saying your house is protected by a security system is usually enough to keep them away, even if you don't have one.

I don't know, I wouldn't be willing to trust a thief not to kill me if he realized I was home.

But there probably wouldn't be much gun waving if I caught him, either. I don't think I'd risk going movie-style and telling him to freeze - I would shoot first and ask questions later.

[Angrist]

So you're saying that with every break-in, somebody dies. Either the robber or the house owner. Both don't trust each other, so they instantly kill each other.

I think the figures show something else. So does my sense of logic.

Anyway, why do I even bother? I bet all the arguments I like to come up with have already been used thousands of times. :)

Edit: 1 last one, a nice scripture I try to live by.
Matthew 26:52 "Jesus said to him: 'Return your sword to its place, for all those who take the sword will perish by the sword.'"

[DeathsHand]

Your presence could easily be enough for him to shoot you if he is armed.

Indeed, it happens all the time... "Robbery/Home Invasion 'gone bad'" they like to call it on the news...

That said, I don't necessarily condone the possession of automatic rifles or amassing your own personal arsenal or setting up traps involving marbles or blowtorches or any of that crazy stuff...
I'd settle for a Colt Single Action Army, just in case I had a 3:00a.m. run-in with an elephant.

Edit:

So you're saying that with every break-in, somebody dies. Either the robber or the house owner.

No, because not all home invasions involve a confrontation with the home owners.
And not all confrontations that do occur involve guns.
Then, of course, there's the Slomin's Shield.

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[KillerGremlin]

Consider me apathetic up front. :D

I believe most statistics show that most robbers want to avoid confrontation. This is why the bulk of robberies occur during the day while people are at work. Most people who are robbing you don't want to escalate the situation to assault or murder. The "breaking in at night" story is much more interesting than the, "I went on vacation or I was at work and some of my shit got stolen" story. That's why the news tends to favor the rare "breaking in at night" stories.

I also believe statistics show high mortality rates when home confrontations happens when someone breaks into the house of someone who has an unregistered firearm. These statistics seem to be most dense in cities with high rates of gang violence and poverty, like Chicago's west side (makes sense to me).

This is food for thought for the ensuing Europe vs. Uncle Sam and his Gun debate.

My own thoughts are one day I will educate myself on how to properly use a firearm. Once I am adequate at hitting a target, loading the gun, cleaning the gun, assembling the gun, and taking it apart - ALL WHILE FOCUSING ON SAFETY FIRST - then I will consider a firearm a welcome addition to my home.

A final thought...having actually stayed out on a real farm in the middle of the country in both Indiana and Central Illinois...a farm where dogs roam around at night, and it is pitch black, and the nearest neighbor is a few miles away...I would definitely want a few guns in my house. I realize the logic about someone robbing your country house is pretty solid, what STEREOTYPICAL burglar is gonna drive out into the middle of bumfuck nowhere to rob a house on a farm?. Well...the reality is people steal farm equipment all the time, and farm equipment is expensive shit. That is why there are dogs roaming the farm and farmer Joe has a shotgun and a pitchfork.

[Vampyr]

So you're saying that with every break-in, somebody dies. Either the robber or the house owner. Both don't trust each other, so they instantly kill each other.

I think the figures show something else. So does my sense of logic.

Anyway, why do I even bother? I bet all the arguments I like to come up with have already been used thousands of times. :)

Edit: 1 last one, a nice scripture I try to live by.
Matthew 26:52 "Jesus said to him: 'Return your sword to its place, for all those who take the sword will perish by the sword.'"

Like other people have said, the vast majority of the time you won't be at home. But if someone does break in while you're asleep, or if you decided to take the day off from work and they choose that day to break in...better safe than sorry.

And that scripture is like saying innocent people don't get killed. That just isn't true. I think the quote is more saying "don't go seeking combat" then it is saying don't be prepared to defend yourself.

But yes, I would probably instantly shoot the intruder than risk something happening to me or my girlfriend. Or even my cat.

[Fyacin]

Pretty much the only we keep a gun out here for are the coyotes.

[Professor S]

So you're saying that with every break-in, somebody dies. Either the robber or the house owner. Both don't trust each other, so they instantly kill each other.

I think the figures show something else. So does my sense of logic.

Like others have said, it depends on whether or not you're home. Most of the time you won't be, but my sense of logic says that if someone breaks in while I'm home, they've probably seen my car in the drive and know I'm there and don't care. That makes them dangerous. Likely to happen? No, but it does happen.

Edit: 1 last one, a nice scripture I try to live by.
Matthew 26:52 "Jesus said to him: 'Return your sword to its place, for all those who take the sword will perish by the sword.'"

I also remember this one: "FUCK YOU, MONEY CHANGERS! Think of my fist as the body of Christ and eat my knuckle eucharist!"

I kid, I kid. But seriously:

If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed

From Exodus

[Swan]

I have many traps set up that I check at the end of every week.



After checking them I determine how many carnivirous felines that I need to order for the month

[Angrist]

If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed
From Exodus
True, but that's not all of it. “If a thief should be found in the act of breaking in and he does get struck and die, there is no bloodguilt for him. If the sun has shone forth upon him, there is bloodguilt for him.
Only when it was dark, was the defender not guilty of bloodshed. When it was during the day, he wasn't allowed to kill him, probably because he could identify the offender and justice could be served.

Even though the old testament directly doesn't apply to us (for example, we don't kill people for fornication anymore), we can learn something from it. You are allowed to defend your life, but would you kill somebody if he only was after your possessions? Hm maybe this scripture can be interesting here, I don't know.
Do not be loving either the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him; because everything in the world—the desire of the flesh and the desire of the eyes and the showy display of one’s means of life—does not originate with the Father, but originates with the world. Furthermore, the world is passing away and so is its desire, but he that does the will of God remains forever.

Anyway, I think I'm pretty much done with this discussion, but I just felt you had left something out.

[Professor S]

True, but that's not all of it.
Only when it was dark, was the defender not guilty of bloodshed. When it was during the day, he wasn't allowed to kill him, probably because he could identify the offender and justice could be served.

I realize that, but that part of the scripture doesn't apply to what we're talking about here. We're talking about someone breaking into your home while you're there and defending yourself (and I always assumed it would be a night). The part you quote I interpret as being more about vengeance for the break-in after the fact than self-defense (EX. if someone steals from you (night), you can't hunt them down and kill them later(day)). But thats just the way I read it, and the old testament is often mis-translated because of how difficult hebrew is to translate in context and meaning.

Also, you're comments imply that the home defender must be psychic. If I am the homeowner, how do I know what the invader's intentions are? Do I know that he only wants to steal my belongings? Should I ask him, or wait for him to pull out his gun and shoots me, and then rapes my wife? Am I morally wrong for assuming the worst when it is the invader that has theatened me by his very presence?

[Angrist]

Yeah well ok. Not much I can or want to say anymore. :) I'm just happy I don't own a gun. I trust on my social skills not to get hurt, without ending up as a killer. But I admit it's difficult. I just see a gun as an easy way out.

Can I be the first to congratulate you on your 5k postmark? :D

[Soviet Stinger]

I just see a gun as an easy way out.

I don't really follow.

Do you mean that in a home invasion you don't want the easy way to take care of things?

[Vampyr]

I don't really follow.

Do you mean that in a home invasion you don't want the easy way to take care of things?

He keeps chainsaw under his bed.

:chainsaw:

[Vampyr]

This seems appropriate:

http://gizmodo.com/5359797/student-kills-intruder-with-samurai-sword-after-playstation-laptops-stolen

[Professor S]

Well, looks like I'm getting a samurai sword...

In all seriousness, if someone broke into my place and lunged at me, I would have sliced his ass up too.

The tricky part is the "lunging". I guess that's why many places have a "castle" clause, allowing a homeowner to do kill an intruder no questions asked.

[KillerGremlin]

What a shitty robber. Seriously. Death by samurai sword over a PlayStation? That's just bad luck.