Affirmative Action is Racist!

[KillerGremlin]

Check out this documentary about college campuses, freedom of speech, affirmative action, racism....

Like all documentaries it is one sided and misses some important part of the problem, but damn this is thought provoking and should be MANDATORY watching for all college students.

Part 1

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Part 2

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Part 3

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Part 4

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Part 5

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Part 6

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Part 7

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Part 8

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Part 9

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Part 10

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[Professor S]

I think at one point Affirmative Action was very necessary, but I think that point has come and gone and it does indeed do more harm than good. Now I think it simply implies that minorities cannot achieve without the help of well meaning white people. Personally I think that affirmative action can work without quotas, but quotas are counter productive and create resentment more than anything.

A bigger problem I think is that the the leaders of the civil rights movement have remained the same for nearly 30 years, and the fight has changed while the rhetoric hasn't. Bill Cosby is the most articulate proponent the belief that now minorities need to concentrate on rebuilding their communities and families that were damaged by segregationist policies of the 30's - 60's. There were several generation of poor minorities than grew up without fathers due to redistricting, progressive eugenics policies and red lining, and that kind of damage will take time to fix.

[Acebot44]

Let me use UCLA as an example, because this is personal experience with affirmative action.

My freshman year, there was protest all around the campus to urge the UC Regents to change their current admissions standards, which were modified to not take race, sex, or ethnicity into account in 1996, to a more holistic approach. This came as a result of admissions of african americans at UCLA dropping DRAMATICALLY after the passage of 1996's Prop 209. For example, in 2005, only 22 African American Males were admitted who were NOT on athletic scholarship, out of a total of 4,289 incoming freshman.

In 2006, UCLA's incoming freshman contained only 2% African Americans, the lowest it had been since 1973! This was the year I entered UCLA, so you can see why protest began, and actually led to change.

A more holistic admissions process was created which, while still not taking into account race and gender, made those admitting students read entire applications together as opposed to the academic and personal separately. Socioeconomic and disadvantagement factors would thus be taken further into account.

The result: In 2007, 407 African Americans were admitted, 453 in 2008.


I'll elaborate on what this shows about affirmative action, or rather its absence, on Wednesday :p

[Professor S]

Interesting note, Acebot. There are a lot of other factors at work that I'd like to see, such as the grades of all students who applied and were rejected, total number of minority applicants associated with those thresholds, etc. All of these affect the context in which these students were metriculated. If UCLA completely ignored the race identifier and chose the best students based on test scores and grades, I have no problem with their decisions. Just comparing numbers does nothing to gauge whether or not UCLA made poor or racist decisions.

My problem with affirmative action comes in when a lesser qualified individual is ushered through because of race, creed, economic condition, etc. Admittance should be solely based on performance, and not anything else.

Now in the case of equal qualifications, by all mean the minority should be chosen before the majority, but when you give preference to individuals solely based on race, etc. you work against the betterment of society as a whole.

[KillerGremlin]

Now in the case of equal qualifications, by all mean the minority should be chosen before the majority, but when you give preference to individuals solely based on race, etc. you work against the betterment of society as a whole.

Shouldn't the bias be removed through random assignment :p

I grew up in this lovey dovey city:
http://www.city-data.com/city/Naperville-Illinois.html

which showed up as #3 here (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/bplive/2008/)

Needless to say, there was no shortage of education, money, good teachers....

So, I thought it was funny when my HALF black friend got a scholarship to U of I for several thousands dollars a semester because he was black. Did any of my equally smart white friends get a scholarship for being white? No.

I always thought they should do away with affirmative action and make it an equal application ground. However, I think they should increase/add more scholarships for struggling students (minority or not) who couldn't otherwise pay for their deserved education. One problem in Illinois is that the education system is based on tax dollars. Obviously, in inner city schools where the outlying area is poor, the schools will suffer. In Naperville the school gets millions because there is no shortage of money.

[KillerGremlin]

Also, I kinda chose a sensationalist title for my thread. The main issue of the documentary is that free speech on campus is restricted and there is a strong anti-American attitude in the classroom.

It's an interesting documentary. One of the main issues of censorship touched on was affirmative action. And the reaction that some students had when other students protested affirmative action was scary. I can't believe some of these students got into such prestigious institutions...I mean I'm just a hick white boy from the midwest, so I have no room to talk =D.