We're Doomed

[Professor S]

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-world-europe/20080907/Big.Bang.Machine/

I know I've never been a fan of theoretical science on these forums, but I think we should keep shit like this on pen and paper. I'd prefer theory to creating a giant rift in space/time that sucks us all into oblivion.:D

[Fyacin]

Dude, this could be like a cheap sci-fi horror flick. Honestly, black holes are not things I want to have!

[manasecret]

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[mickydaniels]

"No, don't sail that way, you'll fall off the edge of the earth!"


The only people in danger will be those working the machine and its components. At more than 6 billion euros, this thing better be fully operational from the first switch.

[Professor S]

"No, don't sail that way, you'll fall off the edge of the earth!"

Except for the fact that the myth about the flat world was based on observation not science. There are scientific concerns and doubt as to exactly what this thing could do. The direct answer: They don't know. Just think of how many scientific discoveries were complete accidents. There is a lot that could happen that hasn't been worked out in theory.

Now odds are nothing bad will happen, but we also shouldn't be as cavalier as the quote you made. We should tread carefully and lightly into the unknown.

[thatmariolover]

We're not doomed. Nearly every major theoretical physicist has given it the thumbs up. The particle interactions that they will be creating happen every day in the earth's atmosphere. The real issue is that they're random and therefore unobservable at the scale required for real discovery.

In the event that something like a micro black hole did form, physics suggests it would collapse in on itself and wink out of existence causing no harm. There's a lot of scaremongering happening with this, and it's almost all started by the unformed.

[Professor S]

Once again, its likely that nothing bad will happen, but science has gained more from accident than intention. There is a line that separates confidence and arrogance, and to completely disregard the chance of something bad happening from operations that have never been attempted, crosses that line.

I'm not saying "don't do it". I'm saying "be careful".

And the I'm Doomed part was in jest, obviously, but there is room for reasoned concern.

[mickydaniels]

Yes, I don't think we should be preaching the apocalypse (unless you already do so for religious reasons).
Pretty interesting, if only for the fact that they're claiming this machine will go up to 7 trillion electronvolts.
Violence in the realm of "chemistry" is 5 eV.
Fission of 1 uranium atom is ~200 million eV.

Fun Fact: there were arguments before the Trinity bomb test against a hypothesis of the bomb actually being able to burn up the whole atmosphere of the earth.

[Swan]

Amusing article about a bunch of things this machine could do
http://www.cracked.com/article_16583_5-scientific-experiments-most-likely-end-world.html


Even if not true scary to even think about

[mickydaniels]

Amusing article about a bunch of things this machine could do
http://www.cracked.com/article_16583_5-scientific-experiments-most-likely-end-world.html


Even if not true scary to even think about

REPENT! For the kingdom of God is near!

[Combine 017]

Resonance Cascade anyone? This place is located in an underground facility in Europe (Black Mesa East) being operated by theoretical physicists (Gordon Freeman). Headcrabs are upon us!

[KillerGremlin]

I've visited Fermilab twice. It's a cool facility. They do the same thing at Fermi that they are going to do at CERN....they accelerate a proton and an antiproton at each other at ~99% the speed of light. It's cool stuff. Is it a recreation of the Big Bang? The Big Bang Theory states that the universe came from singularity...it was an explosion with enough energy to create ALL the matter in our current universe. We're just firing single particles at each other.

We NEED to perform this experiment. It will prove or disprove the validity of the Higgs boson. No Higgs boson means String Theory is bunk. If we disprove String Theory many particle physicists will have to reconsider current models on our Universe. Personally, I'd like science to forward progress on figuring out as much as we can about the universe.

Did you know that your Cathode Tube Ray (CRT monitor/TV) is a particle accelerator?

[Professor S]

I'll end my part of this thread with the following:

Look out for a blue british police booth, because if you see one and a man in a trench coat pops put and screams "No! Don't!" on Wednesday, grab your ass and run because here come the fucking Dahleks.

http://www.physics.uconn.edu/~mallett/main/images/DrWho.jpg
"YOU FOOLS! YOU DAMN FOOLS!"

[Fox 6]

I read about this a month ago. Nutty stuff really.

[Dyne]

We NEED to perform this experiment.

Wow, and to think that people are afraid of religious nuts.

[Jason1]

Oh yes yes of course this is terrible, anything that might discredit creationism is obviously the devil itself and should be stopped at all costs!

[KillerGremlin]

Wow, and to think that people are afraid of religious nuts.

I'm sure that was a light-hearted jab. Nevertheless, the Large Hadron Collider aims to answer some very important questions regarding Particle Physics. These large particle accelerators are not cheap. The reason I say that we "NEED" to perform this experiment is because we built the LHC. You might ask, why did we build the LHC? Because the particle accelerator at Fermilab just wasn't big enough to find the missing particle they are looking for. The LHC is, from what I have been told, the last shot at finding the Higgs boson. If we find the Higgs boson I assume we will have made great leaps forward regarding physics. If we find out that there is no Higgs boson, it is my understanding that many of the upstanding Physics theories will fall apart. There are thousands of brilliant minds exhausting hours of education and research on the current models and theories that we have. I would like to see scientists make forward progress on the subject of physics, especially in my lifetime.

"Religious nuts" go to extremes often hiding behind a belief that cannot be disproved. Faith is just that, a belief in something outside of the ordinary, outside of the testable. I have faith, but I'm not going to use my faith to hate homosexuals or discriminate against women or carry out acts of terrorism.

The LHC is not the first particle accelerator. While there is certainly inherent risk in performing these experiments the LHC marks the next and presumably final evelotuion in testing the validity of the existence of the Higgs boson.

It's like our generations Galileo or Newton or Einstein.

Oh yes yes of course this is terrible, anything that might discredit creationism is obviously the devil itself and should be stopped at all costs!

Particle physics hardly discredits creationism.

[KillerGremlin]

Dyne:

One more thing. I'm not smart enough to advance up the physics scale past basic Newtonian Mechanics and some Electricity stuff. However, all the Physics teachers that I have had have made one observation:

The current models and theories we have about our universe are untestable. We cannot really test the Big Bang nor can we really test how big our universe is. We can't really test what happens at a Black Holes event horizon. Most of our current theories on the universe are based on mathematical and computer models. Long gone are the days when Isaac Newton could see an object falling and apply mathematical quantification to that object (gravity!).

Do you know how we know if a star has a planet orbiting it? By looking at the star's wobble, variations in the light coming form the star, and the effects of observable gravity on the system. Since planets cannot emit light we don't know for sure if there is a planet there, we just assume. That is one example of the ambiguity of analyzing our universe.

I consider these particle accelerators to be a rare opportunity; a way to test a standing theory describing the universe around us. Take it or leave it, but I think it is a cool step forward.

Progress is progress. If we get sucked into a black hole it will be one cool way to end our existence.



And on a side note, I wish Neo was here because I know he is the forum's physics guy.

[TheGame]

The thing is, no matter what this experiment does, it still won't discredit creationists. Though I sense some sarcasm in Jason's post, its hard to really tell on the internet sometimes.

I have no problem with the experiment, other than the fact that it has the potential to endanger the planet. I'm no scientist, but if you have to question the safety of it that much, it is better left on paper. Or maybe they should try it somewhere in outer space.

[KillerGremlin]

The thing is, no matter what this experiment does, it still won't discredit creationists. Though I sense some sarcasm in Jason's post, its hard to really tell on the internet sometimes.

This experiment will do absolutely nothing in the way of discrediting Creationism nor is that the goal of this experiment or science in general. Overzealous atheists act like every scientific finding discredits the notion of God, but as I pointed out above, faith is untestable by nature. We are simply observing our surroundings. For me, faith answers the "why." Science answers the "how." We can observe how light works but we cannot know why it works. Why are there photons in our universe? We arrive at a splitting point: we can say, photons exist because they just do, or, we can say, photons exist because there is some meaning to the universe such as a divine creator. Either way, we cannot test the "why." We can only observe the "how."

I have no problem with the experiment, other than the fact that it has the potential to endanger the planet. I'm no scientist, but if you have to question the safety of it that much, it is better left on paper. Or maybe they should try it somewhere in outer space.

Dangerous according to who? As it has already been stated, there are numerous already functioning particle accelerators. Also, the top scientists are backing this project and vouching that it will not destroy our planet. I would discredit the media without any hesitation and be wary of the "critics."

[TheGame]

This experiment will do absolutely nothing in the way of discrediting Creationism nor is that the goal of this experiment or science in general. Overzealous atheists act like every scientific finding discredits the notion of God, but as I pointed out above, faith is untestable by nature. We are simply observing our surroundings. For me, faith answers the "why." Science answers the "how." We can observe how light works but we cannot know why it works. Why are there photons in our universe? We arrive at a splitting point: we can say, photons exist because they just do, or, we can say, photons exist because there is some meaning to the universe such as a divine creator. Either way, we cannot test the "why." We can only observe the "how."

I agree with you.

No matter what science discovers or creates, it'd all be done from using materieals that have been placed there for them to use. From what I've seen, the more "truth" science brings about, the more likely it seems that something did create us.

Dangerous according to who? As it has already been stated, there are numerous already functioning particle accelerators. Also, the top scientists are backing this project and vouching that it will not destroy our planet. I would discredit the media without any hesitation and be wary of the "critics."

I stated clearly I'm no scientist. But its potentialy dangerous according to the articles I've read on it. Al I have to go off of. lol

[Professor S]

I wonder when people will realize that NOTHING the scientific community can do will discredit creationism as it is based on FAITH, and not science.

There is no point in arguing the matter.

Back on topic!

The first test passed, and we're still here. So far so good. I'm still preparing myself for the inevitable Dahlek invasion...

[manasecret]

Heard they're not going to be colliding protons for a month or so.

*YAWN* Wake me up when the world is about to end.

:p

[Jason1]

This will probably open up a portal to Zen releasing the Vortigaunts. Hopefully Freeman can save us.

[Combine 017]

This will probably open up a portal to Zen releasing the Vortigaunts. Hopefully Freeman can save us.

I already said that. Kind of.

[mickydaniels]

The only people in danger will be those working the machine and its components. At more than 6 billion euros, this thing better be fully operational from the first switch.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-11386_3-10047185-76.html

;)